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Not sure *why* you both transitioned to poly, so this may be completely wrong, but it reads to me like he’s scared of a monogamous man may spirit you away with promises of commitment. Talk to him, dude.

Two main reasons, I have a higher drive and he has a kink for wife sharing which I wasn’t willing to do. He broached the topic, we talked about it and we transitioned to a poly relationship. I am not dating monogamous men. It wouldn’t be fair to him or them. I am in a casual relationships. The men I chose for these short term partnerships have nothing on my husband and my marriage.

My take on this? And I could be wrong!! But it sounds like he's trying to set you up with men he sees himself in, because he doesn't actually like the idea of you with someone other than him unless he's involved in some way. ETA: This may be my most popular comment on reddit. Wow.

I never thought of that. We’d have to explore that more.

Now, I could be entirely wrong!!! But that's my take. He wants to hot wife you. And he's not okay with the idea of you actually being with anyone who he can't either picture as himself or with someone he can't watch. But still. I could be 100% wrong.

Honestly some other comments cropped up and I’m afraid it could have an element of truth. That he wants to share me like I’m his personal p*rnstar and he’s upset because I’m rejecting the men that he is offering.

I think he wants to do Hotwife, but you picking hotter men instead makes him feel like a cuckold. If you have a poly dynamic and not a hot wife or swinging dynamic, then I’m not sure why he’s even inserting himself into what men you choose. Was it one of your ground rules that he needs to approve of your casual/secondary partners? It seems overly controlling for poly.

It was not a rule. We both have the power to veto if the secondary is a safety concern or unhealthy for our marriage but he has just been making comments on the type of men I’ve chosen. 

Sounds like you're poly, he's a swinger.

I was thinking that too.

From what your said your husband sounds insecure. You didnt fall in love with his look so maybe he is aware he is not as good looking as the guys you pick and he feels threatened. You picking guys that dont look like him shows your preference and thats ok. Perhaps he isnt that lucky on his side to find attractive women and he wants both of you to have same league (bit of jealousy here?).

Sorry what's the difference between hotwife and cuckold? I thought they were interchangeable terms

The power dynamic is reversed. With a hotwife, he's the rockstar. He's "putting her out" to other men (sorry for the very gross language, but that's what it is), but she comes home to him because he's that awesome and so much better than them. As a cuckold, he's too lame and pathetic to satisfy her, so better, stronger men have to do it. One makes him amazing and her a piece of flesh for his gratification, the other makes him a pathetic loser Again sorry for how gross this all sounds, but it's all pretty degrading.

Ugghhhhhh...... moment of self realisation happening, because I've never thought to look into this dynamic, because I never knew it applied to me. I now wonder if my first husband and I were each doing something somethinglike this, rather than excitedly encouraging each other to have exciting experiences and find genuine connections 🤔 I always thought it was odd that I felt a little cooler, taller and more sexy that my husband was completely free to date or sleep with people _BECAUSE_ I knew that I was the one he wanted to share a home, raise kids and grow old with. My 19yo self (20ish yrs ago) experienced it as a sense of exhilaration and pride. He said and seemed to believe all the above, but the times I dated or played intimately with others, he needed a LOT of aftercare and felt inexplicably diminished in a way he couldn't explain, and it was all very uncomfortable. Reading your comment clicked with me that I now wonder if I was Hot-Wifing him and he was feeling cuckholded by me. That would ABSOLUTELY and PRECISELY explain the exact way we eventually fell apart and why he couldn't remain friendly afterwards. Mind blown. Thank you for explaining this and blowing my mind. I wish Reddit was about in 1999 🤣

... Fair enough. To each their own, I guess

yeah, people get off on that degradation bit though. taboo and all. its hard to get around that when you describe it as its the very nature of the thing ur describing

I mean that’s like the definition of hot wifing isn’t it? It sounds like you thought going poly would solve the issue but it didn’t it just created a new one since it’s an entirely different dynamic.

Yes this, he wants you to be payment for his fantasies, and has already admitted to wife sharing fantasies. Your desires didn't line up now he's not getting what he wanted and is resenting it. It's seriously a situation where you at least need to talk. It stinks that he started you guys down a path with weird intentions that now threaten your home. I hope everything works out

Weird as in not what you wanted but is seems he thought he could get you on board at some point

This is probably it. He wants to still be in control and is not liking that you're picking who. It kills his fantasy

Yea, tbh, that's what it's sounding like. But you'll never know until you sit him down and make him talk it out.

I've been on the hot wife/cuckold scene for a while and my husband vets the dudes for creeps or convict looking ones, BUT he doesn't control who I'm seeing if that makes any sense? I also think poly dudes are a bit weird looking and I generally go for younger and fitter types who are single

You're on the internet sharing intimate details of your sex life with teenage strangers and porn is word you choose to censor? This site is the best zoo in the world.

I think this is it. I dealt w/ a partner like this before. Her partner always wanted to completely hijack my time if I visited their household and act like we were best buddies. I went with it for a time. After a while I straight up told him that I'd like to spend some time w/ my GF (his wife) and her kids (I've known them 15 years) and he acted like I just shot his dog. GF is suddenly cold and distant. Never has time. Things slowly dissolve and we break up. All because I put up a little boundary w/ him.

This is the vibe I’m getting.

Exactly this. Are you consulted regarding his partners?

I mean, hes got a kink for wife sharing and is constantly trying to control his wife's other partners/push her to sleep with specific men...it sounds like a poly relationship was his workaround and now hes frustrated its not *working*

Yupp, I agree with this.

This. And maybe he’s got a kink for wife sharing, but him trying to get that to happen in a way he likes may not be compatible with OP’s agency in this situation.

OP had said he got that kink, which is what made me think this is what's happening.

Well, sounds like a good deal for the both of you then. Speak with him about whether there’s an insecurity on his end, and be sure to reassure him of your commitment to him regardless of his answer.

Thanks for the advice. I’m going to reiterate that I love him and I chose him and my choice in short term relationships isn’t about him. Hopefully this time he’ll open up and if he doesn’t we still need to find some good counseling. 

Why stay with him? Find a real husband who appreciates you and doesn’t push his kinks on you. Honestly deserve better

It sounds like he's more interested in a swinging rather than an actual poly relationship?

He was interested in wife sharing or swinging but I wasn’t interested. We talked about poly after he broached the conversation and decided it was a good step for us to try.

Ok, and now he is “guiding” you to people he knows. Which is just wife-sharing under the guise of poly. It does not serve his kink when you are hooking up with random good looking guys.

Well it's hard to get these guys to share their wives with him when OP wont sleep with them. That's why he's he resentful. He knows he wasn't going to get by trading on his sex appeal he's been planning on trading OP's sex appeal from the beginning.

This comment makes soooo much sense to me

This! I think OP’s husband is using her to satisfy his desires and prioritizing himself getting off over her agency.

And is it? You have problems you wouldn't have otherwise

He wanted to trade you for cred. Swinging is not the same as poly. Your husband is not interested in dating. He needs you as the bate as the attractive partner to lore a good looking couple who he can then be like "See how awesome I am I let my hot wife f you and I just get your wife" ( who would be out of his league and not able to get alone. )

Hey stupid question but I just wanted to ask for a little clarity on what the difference is between wife sharing and being poly. It sounds like you'd be sleeping with others in either case, right? In wife swapping is he also involved? Does he choose the partners? Would it be only you sleeping with others and he doesn't? I'm sorry for what you guys are going through. It sounds a bit like when people get insecure about their partners watching porn (and especially when the porn features people that look vastly different from themselves)...except with porn you can make the argument that it's just fantasy and that's not what normal bodies and sex looks like....but in this case you're having actual, satisfying sex with his source of insecurity so that's a little harder to work past.

In wife sharing yes the husband would be much more involved in everything. He wouldn't necessarily choose the partners but it might be more of a joint thing between them because unlike poly, it would be for both of them at the same time. Likely he would not be sleeping with others, only she would, but the key point is that no deep relationship should form or even have a chance of forming. Sometimes it does anyway but that's another story. OP didn't want what her husband wanted and instead wanted something else that it sounds like he *doesn't* want, but he didn't know it at the time. That's my takeaway. Mismatched hopes, expectations, and desires are gonna be the death of this relationship and OP has her head in the sand over it it feels like.

Thank you so much for such a clear explanation! Oh so two pretty different experiences huh? Do you think OP's husband may be focusing on her choice of partners and how she finds them as a means of bridging the gap between their current arrangement and what he'd originally wanted? Maybe trying to make the experience more collaborative and be more involved?

It might be as you say, though I doubt it is nefarious. That is to say I doubt her husband is trying to sneakily push his kink. He wanted one thing, got another, and isn't happy with how it is going - and that's fair!!! He is allowed to be dissatisfied with it and it boggles my mind how nobody is telling OP the truth, that the relationship needs to close like *yesterday* and they need counselling *stat* or else they may as well sign the divorce papers now. My thoughts? OPs husband is feeling very insecure about the partners OP is pulling and OP isn't helping by harping on how she "chose him for his personality" because even if she is attracted to him, he'll never believe it again, at least, not without serious joint therapy and a lot of work from both of them. He probably also is afraid of losing her to her dates because supposing she finds someone hot with a brain, there's no telling how she'll feel. Everyone, everyone getting into this who says "its just sex" or "it'll never be more than casual" or some version of that is *deluded*. It might be that way for a while, but all it takes is one good match for things to get serious. OPs husband probably knows this. OP is the one with her head in the sand. They need to stop this *now* if they want any hope of reconciliation. I say this as someone with a hotwife kink myself who found themselves in a polyamorous situation. It. Fucking. Sucks. It's not what you asked for and it never should've happened, it's not a substitute and it leaves you feeling powerless. OP needs to hear this.

The wife sharing is a kink/activity for sexual purposes. Poly is a way of life, and may be driven as much or more by the desire for relationships as anything to do with sex.

Making your marriage poly was a compromise on your part but it's still dictated by his his preferences, specifically him "finding" you (giving you to) men he's chosen because it gets him what he wants (validation and possible access to other women) I'm not poly and I'm not a fan of it generally (I've caused one divorce between people who "knew what they were doing" and probably pushed another two close to that conclusion), but this is one time I'll defend it and say this isn't real poly. This is definitively not how it's supposed to be done. He's using the poly label because he can't use the one he wants, which is wife swapping. I think you need to have a blunt conversation about how already put your foot down to that kink and you're dating for YOUR benefit, not his.

I feel like his goals are at cross-purposes with yours.

Exactly this. And he’s focused on what he wants, but doesn’t care as much about what OP wants.

Meh, he is poly, but jealous unless you pick ugly partners? He doesnt seem secure enough to handle this type of relationship dynamic.

I don’t think it’s about security. I think he thinks I’m insulting his partners or offending the whole poly community. My post just got removed for concern trolling and I get that it’s a hot button issue but I feel like I should have the freedom to find what I find attractive.

I think that he wants you in the poly scene to avoid you finding a new partner you like better and leaving him. In the poly scene everyone is on the same page, but on dating apps you may find a better man who wants a monogamous relationship instead.

Yeah I suspect this - things are more of a "known quantity" in the scene whereas someone on a plain dating app might have different expectations 

I totally agree

Yeah im sure he has a false sense of security with "bro code" and even a gross sense of entitlement of her and his friends, like she is to be shared to help them out to get laid. Atrocious.

Bingo.

you say he's insecure about his looks but can't connect that to you finding "attractive partners" that he mysteriously rejects and then offers up a bunch of not attractive people that he approves of??

I was thinking more about jealousy. I don’t think he’s jealous of my partners, but he is insecure that they are “more” attractive than him. 

There was another comment that told you you're on the slow train to divorce and you said your relationship was strong. Nobody is saying you don't love him or that your tie to each other isn't strong we're saying that there is a deep issue going on that you're brushing off. I would rather you be more open to exploring that than doing what you are now and running into that brick wall later because "it couldn't possibly be that".

I’ll take that advice thanks. I’ve been trying to get him to go to counseling with me but it’s hard to find a poly friendly therapist.

I don't meant to be harsh! Good luck! Yeah that does sound hard and pretty niche maybe r/polyamory could help?

I tried posting on there but they removed it for concern trolling. That’s why I’m here instead.

Instead of asking for help with this specific problem, ask for help finding a polyam-friendly therapist in your area or online that’s licensed in your jurisdiction.

You titled your post "people in the polyamory community are unattractive". Of course you got deleted, if you rephrased it to not directly insult everyone in the subreddit you might get better results.

Yeah, exactly lol. It's fine if she doesn't prefer the non-monogamy focused apps or prefers to meet people other ways or whatever. But it is so odd for her to use a sweeping generalization like that as her reasoning. It just kinda doesn't make sense... Like, there is a spectrum of different looks in the polyamorous community. It would be like if I said "people in academia are unattractive." It's just sort of a nonsensical generalization. Something like, "I don't tend to connect/fit in with people who are really engaged in the polamory community" would make more sense, if it's the community culture she's put off by.

Try r/nonmonogamy instead. It can be…less judgmental.

She titled her post "people in the polyamory community are unattractive". The mods were right to delete it.

Sometimes there's overlap with LGBT-friendly and poly-friendly therapists. I'd check out the LGBT listings for therapists, they may mention non-monogamy/polyamory in their profiles.

>I think he thinks I’m insulting his partners or offending the whole poly community.  A secure person would not think like that

Poly people aren't any more secure than mono people. They'll tell you they are, though.

As a polyam person, this is correct.

Yeah, I guess it might be insecurity in that way. I think he sees it as me rejecting him when I reject men who he sees as physically in his league. I don’t see it that way.

I could be very wrong but there's another strong possibility in play. "He keeps trying to push other men who are in our local poly scene onto me, and they're all unattractive." Yeah but their partners, AKA your husband's limited pool of partners aren't to him. Since he also brought up swingers what are the odds that there's supposed to be some be some reciprocity and he isn't getting the action he wants because you wont sleep with their husbands. I'd feel the need to ask about these other men he's pushing by name. If he's agreed to trade you to them for access to their partners? Or worse yet now " owes" them a turn with you. Edit: Just read one of your comments. So he's been aware from the beginning that he's not going to get access to other women based on his sex appeal. He wanted to swap you for access to other woman, not be " poly " and have you sleep with random guys that don't provide him with anything. He's resentful because all of this nonsense has blown up in his face. He can't get women because you wont sleep with their unattractive partners like he wanted from the get go but you are sleeping with all these other guys. A true case of FAFO once again involving this subject. You're not going to get past his resentment, it's dawning on him he deliberately blew up his marriage to have sex with other woman and instead you're having all the sex you want while he doesn't have the admission fee for his fantasy.

So he wants to use her as payment to get other women? Gross.

This is the answer. He wants to essentially pimp her out for access to other men's wives, and he's angry because she's going off and making her own decisions about who she has sex with that don't benefit him. He sounds like a creep.

Your edit should be its own comment because after reading a lot of OPs comments - this seems like the most likely scenario imo

It's really weird to me that he wants control over who you partner with, to the point of being upset you won't couple with people you aren't even attracted to and trying to stop you from connecting with people you are attracted to.  It would be like my partner getting upset about me liking something in bed and insisting I stop doing it and do something I don't like.  It doesn't sound like you're into him vetoing people and you didn't ask him to guide you to hooking up with men in a specific community. So why is he doing that? 

He doesn't have to worry about men she doesn't find attractive. Anyone she finds attractive is a threat.

This is an excellent comment, I hope OP sees this.

He probably wants you to go to these places so he has an easier time getting laid (like couples partnering off). But since, as you say, people in this scene are typically unattractive, he’s just going to have to live with your decision

exactly this

So…insecurity?

What you described is insecurity. He either is seeking validation for himself by pushing you towards others who are also unattractive, or afraid a more conventionally attractive person might win you over. Insecurity no matter how you slice it. It's about him, not you nor the other men.

People find different things attractive, you can’t guilt people into lust

You definitely can’t. 

Are you certain it isn’t as simple as him not wanting you to be with a man who’s better looking than him?

You're honestly not wrong. The poly/kink scene is heavily populated by people who were/are - in some way - ostracized by conventionally attractive people. From my experiences, a lot of people are poly/no mono because they receive validation in a way that they otherwise wouldn't, and it provides a sense of exclusivity to a "club" that conventionally attractive people aren't in. It's a subversive way of being saying "Look at me, the person who always struggled to attract a partner - but now I have multiple partners! Aren't you jealous?" And the answer is no. I went to two kink conventions this past year for work and - as a sexually open person - had zero desire to partake in any of the events or approach any of the attendees for any sort of sexual activity. Why? Because the venn diagram of people who never outgrew hot topic and "lol random spork" culture and those in the poly/kink community is a circle. It was a really interesting experience because, for places that held so much merit for being "inclusive" I was heavily treated like an outsider for being conventionally attractive and wearing clothes that didn't feature purple/green/black stripes. Very interesting experience to see so many people expressing themselves, seemingly for the sake of outside validation for their "weirdness", in a way that came across as performative - while also not accomplishing their secondary goal of impressing the "Normy" (me). Sorry, that turned into a rant. But your reasoning is totally valid. The poly/kink community is strange - and for as interested as I would be in having multiple partners - the platforms that are there for that express purpose have very little to offer in regards to looks.

Oof, this is a nice truth bomb I am often too polite to drop. I've been poly and kinky for about 15 years, and I have yet to find one kink or poly community that is even a little appealing to me. Between the pressure to be sexual with strangers, the general unattractiveness, the fake "doms", the unicorn hunters, age gaps, harem builders... I've never found a partner in any of those settings. :/

Not to mention the sexual assault. Who knew sex positive communities would also attract sexual predators?

This was the thing that shocked me the most and ultimately make me turn away from the kink community, especially where they talk so much about safety and consent. I was coerced into having sex I didn’t want to have (because I was scared to keep saying no and they wore me down) THREE TIMES.

Ok thank you for posting this. I have always quietly wondered about this because the people I know and have run into over the years in this community all had a certain look but I couldn’t tell if it was coincidence or more broadly true. But you can’t really ask people that you know?

If you go on FetLife and look at the users in different areas you'll notice that the majority of the people that don't fit the look are selling their Only Fans.

And the rampant STDs in those communities. Take a shot whenever you read a post from r/polyamory claiming their partner(s) gave them an STD. You'd be drunk in an hour.

It's interesting because I was at the kink conventions for work because I was working for an at-home std testing app and while everyone at the conventions was talking about how important our brand was - we received very few sales, and fewer people redeeming the codes for the kits we were giving away. The other thing that surprised me was how ill informed a lot of people were about getting tested, incubation periods, etc and how lax the events themselves were with that. One of the events I went to required mandatory covid testing every morning to attend, but had no regulations or standards for testing. Obviously, everyone had to sign a waiver before attending, and there were strict rules in regard to play in the designated spaces - but from what I witnessed, those rules were not being followed. It's interesting how much pride in "consent" that these communities take, while simultaneously ignoring a lot of the protocols that lend themselves to what was being consented to.

Another one for "we were all thinking it". Because good god. I absolutely get and accept that someone I find attractive someone else may find outrageously unappealing. And vice versa.  But in my area, the poly folks don't even seem to have basic hygiene mastered. They're all obese, unkempt, stringy haired Ren Faire types looking for a "polycule" and UGH I hate that word anyway.  I'm parallel, for starters. I believe each relationship deserves its space. Others feel differently. That's ok. But I have no interest in trying to force or be forced into a group of strangers and then add relationships and intimacy into the mix.  Second is it really that big an ask to get a haircut, wear deodorant, and take a damn shower? Your noodly purple hair ain't doing it for me. Idgaf that it's purple. Just why can't it be CLEAN and GROOMED?  So, I stay away from the poly "community" like I swore off groups and activities "for geeks" years ago for the same reason. The people who participate tend to be very unhealthy and socially maladjusted.

Yep. I've absolutely been part of these groups and actually fit some of the stereotypes, but the lack of hygiene and grooming standards put off even my nerdy, fat, blue haired self. You are coming to a party to potentially meet new partners, people you might want to get naked with...why on earth did you not SHOWER? The drama, the group politics....nah, I'm good. Never again. It's yet another one of those ideas that's great in theory, but falls apart in practice.

I agree so much. I'm a niche market - I'll be attractive to men who like tomboys. Everyone else will think I'm a lesbian. Meh. I'm definitely not ugly but I'm also not conventionally attractive. I'm "weird" in my own right.  *But dammit I'm clean and put together*.  There's nothing wrong with being heavy. Some people like curves rather than my slim body. Totally cool. Nothing wrong with liking bright hair colors. It'll appeal to some people, others not. Beauty/beholder.  One of my best friends on earth is a gay man and deals with the same thing. To my straight eyes he's the most adorable and beautiful man ever created. In the gay community people have said he acts "too straight". Different strokes/folks.  And the social politics GOOD GOD YOU ARE NOT WRONG. It's a MAIN reason if not THE reason I'm parallel. I'll have my relationships which are all separate. If I have more than one partner at a given time and they meet incidentally or casually, cool. Same me with meeting their partner(s). But you cannot seriously expect a group of randoms to all get along just because they have a relationship in common somewhere. I have BEST FRIENDS that I'm THEIR friend and they're mine. While we may not dislike each other's partners and get along just fine when we're together, the main friendship is between TWO people. Not 3+. I've had friends that I didn't even LIKE their partner or their partner didn't like me. No serious or concerning issues, just not my kind of person. And everyone was cool with that. My best college friend was that way. Her BF didn't care for me. We just didn't vibe. He still respected that she and I were friends.  But if you can't always get a group of 3 to work, how can 4, 6, 8 work.  I think the healthiest relationships are ones where you have your own thing and relationships, they have theirs, and some you share.  I've literally heard "cules" 🤢 say they want to build a gaming group. 

This was really insightful. 👍

I'm always nervous talking about it because I would imagine it would upset those in the kink/poly communities - but it is also a fairly accurate observation.

No he’s insecure and doesn’t want a shot to his ego that you would move on with someone hotter easily if you ever decide you are done with him and his insecurities. Most new poly men go through this and it’s usually what ends poly relationships in one way or another.

Who wanted to switch to poly? Because honestly judging from people I know and of course Reddit, it usually results in the break down of the marriage at some point. Do you think that’s a possibility with your marriage. Have you guys thought of closing the marriage and just focusing on each other, at least temporarily?

Exactly!

.-.he’s jealous that you’re getting better looking men than him! He open this can of worms but wants to make the rules for you.

Girl you gassed up this man, made him think he was way more attractive than he is based purely on your love and commitment. And this is how he thanks you? Wanting you to have sex with other unattractive men you don’t care about. And then guilts you about it? This should be causing you to rethink your entire marriage.

> Husband and I have reached a block because he doesn't approve of my partners.  Why doesn't he approve of your partner's then? Is it purely because you don't meet them on a poly app? It really sounds like he's insecure that you are seeing anyone at all

TL;DR: You're in an open relationship, not poly, he seems to be projecting with no real plan/is confused as to what he wants from this, and doesn't seem to respect your needs for a secondary partner. My 2c. IMHO, and this might be controversial, but you guys don't sound poly. You're in an open relationship, ethical non-monogamy. Polyamory is about having the capacity to have fully realised, loving, long-term romantic relationships where you have connections, trust, and understanding between multiple partners. You guys aren't there yet. I say this as someone who was in your situation and it ended up destroying our relationship but very slowly. Now I'm in a very happy and safe polyamorous relationship with two people who love me and love each other, and I've never been happier! Opening your relationship to ethical non-monogamy after being monogamous needs to be treated with a delicate touch. Often the reason the relationship is opened up is because someone isn't happy with something (might be the relationship, might be something else) and is looking for someone to validate them. Emotions can be sensitive because things are changing. Get some relationship counselling, tell him you're OK with having an open/ethically non-monogamous relationship with him but he needs to understand that the reason people start looking in real polyamorous relationships because they need/want to fill a gap, not to get more of the same. If that means the majority of partners operating in the 'polyam/non-monogamous' sphere aren't doing that for you, then he needs to respect that and find understanding with you. If he's going to project his insecurities by wanting you to date so badly, then why not date you? Why not go on dates together and have that 'new relationship' fun that he's having with someone else? What is his end goal for all this? Why is your opinion about potential suitors so upsetting? There are questions that need answers, and only you two can find them. Sorry for the wall of text. I hope you both have a good long chat, and can find common ground and love together!

It’s not clear what your husband is resentful of. Does he want to be the most attractive man you’re with? Is it because the poly-scene people know the rules and won’t try “steal” you away from him?

I think it’s because he’s insecure about his looks and when I reject men who he thinks are in his league it feels I’m rejecting him. My standards for short and long term relationships are very different and it doesn’t mean I don’t love and am attracted to my husband even if he thinks that way. Since my relationships have been casual and I’ve been open about the fact that I’m in a poly marriage, there hasn’t been a concern someone would steal him away.

The insecurity is coming from him thinking that you're with him as a settling or safety or whatever other reasons that are nothing to do with you finding him attractive, physically desirable and sexually jazzed up by him. No matter how much you tell him that you're with him because of his substance, it's /never/ gonna come across as a good thing if it doesn't include the physical component as well. To guys at least. Feel free to dissect the overall worthiness and value of substance vs physical attraction all you want, it doesn't matter.

Is there any way to make him less insecure?

Frankly I'd close the relationship for a while until you two are back on really really solid ground. Don't find a therapist who specializes in poly relationships. Just find one who can help you guys feel safe again.

You can't make someone more secure. That's something they have to work on and figure out for themselves. Though closing the relationship might help while he's working on that.

Realistically, stop telling him about substance and make him feel secure about you feel about him from a physical attraction level. Whether thats gonna be truthful in your part or a lie only you know. But if it's gonna be a lie you better be ready to walk the walk not just talk the talk. Cause at the end of day, if he is correct in how you view him, it's not an insecurity. It's just the truth that he's realizing only now about your relationship.

Quite honestly, it doesn’t sound as if you are happy in a poly relationship and he knows it. He also knows that if you find a single man, you are more likely to walk away from him and your poly relationship. Whose idea was it transition into this scene?

I am happy enough. I can be polyamorous and monogamous I guess. Whatever relationship I’m in. My husband broached the topic because I have a higher drive than he does and he has a kink for wife sharing, which I don’t want to do. After talking about it for a while, we agreed on polyamory together. I plan on being with him for a very long time.

Maybe him offering up poly-men to you is part of his wife swapping kink, as you mentioned he has, and he gets disappointed when you are so reluctant to bite? I mean, he’s being sneaky and untruthful?

That could also be it. I didn’t consider it. 

Forget about the suspected insecurity or jealousy issues. He is just trying to get you to engage in his wife sharing kink with extra steps... He's the guy at the poly meetups with the hot wife and he is trying to steer you towards sleeping with his friends from that group. If he shuts down any regular joe off a dating app and only approves of his friends from within the lifestyle I see no functional difference between your "poly" relationship and his wife sharing fantasy.

I think you nailed it. He's only ok with her having others if he still gets to make the decisions

>He's the guy at the poly meetups with the hot wife and he is trying to steer you towards sleeping with his friends from that group So he's basically expecting to use his wife's body as collateral in sex negotiations, and he's upset that a) she's not going along with it, and b) she has options for extracurricular fucking outside the poly scene, and he can' see himself in those beautiful himbos.

I mean, idk why he wants to engage in wife sharing so his motivations would just be speculation. OP says he has a low libido. The most innocent explanation would be that her pleasure is a turn on for him, but sometimes he just wants to watch rather than be actively involved. That doesn't seem to quite jive with his apparent selectiveness with the other guy. Maybe he wants to share with friends as a type of brag. Give them a taste of what is his. Maybe he wants to share her with guys he sees as less than him and there is some reclaiming/dominance aspect in it for him. Then there is the humiliation angle where the emasculation is what the turn on is for the guy. The more vanilla explanation that it's just the taboo of it that makes it exciting. Maybe OP can get to the bottom of it with a difficult conversation.

If you have one to trade, you will have more options. He is ugly so his option is limited 

Honestly you might have a point. It’s a mix of him trying to get the wife sharing and being upset when I reject the men he wanted.

he wanted something. you didn't want it, and instead wanted something that kinda sorta looked like it if you squint hard enough. the result: 1. He is not getting what he wants. 2. He has to tolerate you having sex with other men despite not getting what he wants. you have 3 options: 1. close the relationship 2. find a way to include what he wants 3. eventually divorce

> I can be polyamorous and monogamous I guess. Right, that's what they're saying. If you engage in a relationship with someone who heavily leans towards monogamy, there's a chance that you will pursue a monogamous relationship with them and leave your husband.

>he has a kink for wife sharing Hoo boy that's a buried lede. In this context his behavior finally makes a creepy kind of sense.

I feel bad for OP. If I were her, I’d feel objectified and used.

It sounds like he doesn’t want an open relationship he specifically wants to watch you have sex with others and that’s why he’s pressuring you. He was disappointed bc his fantasy won’t be fulfilled.

Yep, this. I don’t think OP’s husband has been totally upfront about his motivations.

polyamory is not wife sharing. it sounds like he is not polyamorous. this will become a potentially marriage ending problem unless you come up with boundaries that satisfy both of you. or close the relationship. it sounds like he's already resenting you.

Girl, he for sure does not want you sleeping with men more attractive than him. For sure.

I have seen this happen with three couples I was friends/acquaintances with: Guy suggests poly, woman does all this work to address her need to be needed and finds it within to get on board. Then they both go out into the scene and the women are flooded with interest. The guy very quickly realizes that most average and above women can smash any day of the week and they aren’t so lucky. Guy either freaks out in jealousy or lets his resentment slowly simmer and rise. The relationship then crumbles and in the three examples I have all of the women return to monogamy and the men keep trying their luck with multiple partners.

You two are on the slow train to divorce.

Not that slow actually.

Literally 🤣🤣 people be like hmmm therapy? Couples counseling? Nah let's fuck other people. That should fix the relationship 😂😂😂🤣 Like just get divorced before going poly if your relationship is open anyway. All this does is make the divorce they're going to have anyway harder

I so agree...Spot on!

“It never works, but it just might for us.”

Man "I want to be poly" Woman "Ok, gonna go sleep with this dude" Man "No, not like that"

Tobias, is that you?

Lmfaooooo this “trend” is willlllllddddd

Fetlife is full of predators & gets investigated by th FBI on a regular basis. Him wanting you to have sex with men you don't find attractive is worrisome. Maybe he wants to see you degraded by ugly men. More he pushes for it, more concerned you should be that he doesn't have your best interest at heart.

I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know about Fetlife.  I have am not interested in being humiliated or degraded. That is a hard boundary.

There are lots of men who want to see their wives degraded by forcing them to have sex with unattractive men. They see those women as too good for them & this is a way to bring them down a bit. Sadly, lots of men hate women & yet marry them then look for ways to degrade or harm them. If you have told him more than once no, then he does NOT respect you or your boundaries.

I am old. One thing I have noticed over my years on this earth is that an unattractive man will only ever resent you for finding him attractive.

I have been practicing polyamory in my marriage for over a decade. I'm sorry your post got denied in r/polyamory, because I do think you'd get better help there. Your husband is trying to control this situation. He is trying to reduce the size of your playing field. He is trying to make it so you are only contacted by people who are ideally already in relationships, because he's worried that a single person will try to "steal" you. None of this is good.

I understand that they do get bad faith posts and I probably shouldn’t have titled it the way I did but I am looking for advice. I saw some other posts titled like that there and I thought it would fit. Some people here are still giving good advice. I don’t know if it’s so people can’t steal me because he knows I’ve always been open and honest and am not dating men who are monogamous. But I do think he sees me rejecting men “in his league” as rejecting him specifically when it’s not like that.

This is going to end well 🤥

>he's always been insecure about his looks. I fell in love with his personality Ouch

He’s probably upset because he’s into the partners of those specific men, and has been trying to use you as leverage in negotiations with them.

This is, unfortunately, super common. Some partners think that they've hit the jackpot once their SO allows them to open their relationship, and then once they realize their dating market value is less than that of their SO, they get upset and insecure.  This often comes with some weird arbitrary rules on their partner's dating life, as you have started to see your husband do to yours. Please note, this is controlling and generally considered unethical in poly relationships. It also tends to get worse if not addressed by communication, individual therapy, and couples therapy.  Check out r/polyamory for some more in depth answers to your questions, and possibly some good solutions. 

he needs to be made to understand he has no say in this. You are not obligated to have sex with his choices.

He's unattractive and you both know it. You've said as much in this post. He is seeking validation he will never get from your exploration, so I see this ending poorly if you guys can't come to terms with closing your relationship. PS: you are not alone in your feeling that people involved in poly are unattractive.

You divorce. He is trying to force you into the scene he wants, not allowing you your preferences.

Well, you’re part of the scene. Also, you say that you “fell in love with him because of his personality, not looks” (basically calling unattractive) while simultaneously saying you wanna go for people you find attractive The issue here is that you’re calling your husband unattractive. Why would he feel good about that? It also seems he’s using polyamory as a way to enact his cuckhold kink and not as intended. Neither are you, as you seem to have little respect for the people you get involved with.

I think he should let you pick your own partners and shut up about anything else.

I would just interrogate him as to why he thinks he has a right to choose your partners. That’s not a normal thing in polyamory at all. He doesn’t get to just assume that’s up to him to choose for you.

He has a cuckhold kink. She didn’t agree to it so he’s using polyamory as a way fo enact his kink it seems

Whose idea was it? Edit: I read a little bit more and it was his.

Sounds like he doesn’t want you with anyone who is better looking than him.

lol this made me laugh. What it really boils down to is he’s mad you’re getting all this success with good looking people. People who open their marriages ought to wave bye bye to it - it doesn’t work and quite often leads to divorce.

I think ... One other way of looking at it might be that he wants you to date his new poly friends (for his wife sharing kink, or just plain "showing off my amazing wife" / "gaining cred in the community" reasons). Plus to some degree rejection of people you like feels like rejection of your own judgment/taste. Not necessarily about the attractiveness so much as about your choice to occupy a different community and not be part of the same friend groups he's joining.

he expected to 'trade' you for another attractive women, but all he will got without you is ugly women lol

But they are like famously unattractive - it’s not just your kooky opinion it’s a well established meme at this point

This is such an unhealthy setup. The jealousy and controlling behavior are going to doom it if you both don't get on the same page.  No advice 

I think you guys should close things for a while and discuss this. It’s a bit complicated that he cares about what types of people you see, but you guys need to figure it out. 

I'm not poly. So correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it like...not ok or yucky to dictate just who your partner's personal seconds and such can be? That's the whole point, right? It really bugs me that he feels he can and should dictate who your options are....realistically it shouldn't matter as long as they're respectful, yeah?

Lmaoo it’s such a huge stereotype (that’s mostly true) that poly people are unattractive

I am not poly. But I've known a decent amount of people that are. And out of probably 20 people 0 are even close to cute. They're hideous. And at least 3 of them are of the poor hygiene nasty variety. And maybe I just know ugly/unwashed poly people. But if your experience is ANYTHING like what I've seen then you're spot on. Also, why does he care? If he wants this relationship why does he care if the men are hot?

I mean, you say that you want help but every time someone tries to explain a possible reason why your husband is reacting this way, you shut it down and say it’s impossible. If you already know the source of his issue and are sure none of us know any possible alternatives then what exactly do you want here? Your husband wants you to pick from the polyamory community, either do that or tell him no. Either you find someone he is comfortable with that you can feel attraction for or you explore the reasons why he isn’t comfortable with the guys you are attracted to and try to resolve them. There’s really not an additional magic solution here.

Do the polyamorous men he's suggesting have wives he wants to sleep with? Sounds kindof like he's trying to trade access to your body for sex with these men's wives 🤢

Info: why was he pushing the poly centered apps? Is it because he's jealous of the attractiveness of your other partners? Or does he want you dating other poly people to ensure the others respect your primary relationship?

I think it’s because he’s jealous of the attractiveness of my partners. He says it’s because I need to be more open to relationships and I might find a better match with the guys he’s pushing than what I have.

So basically he's having longer term relationships with more emotions while you prefer short term more physical relationships? It sounds like he knows what you are saying re the community is accurate. Maybe just tell him,  you are only interested in other physical relationships and that is why you go for the best looking guys? If you don't want another emotional relationship,  why would personality even be a factor? 

Idk I would just tell him that he had no right to dictate how you go about your agreed upon dynamic. Those kinds of sites don't do anything for you and prefer to find your flings exactly they way you are now and have no desire to change and will not change despite his prodding. Ask him to stop bringing it up. He can find partners his way, and you'll find yours your way. If he's insecure, he has to work on that himself. It's VERY understandable not to want to get involved in the poly community, and I'm not even talking about looks. 🤷‍♀️

well well well

Your relationship with him is done may as well divorce

Genuinely the best advice anyone can be given us, if you're thinking about opening up your relationship, or keeping it open, don't. Best of luck to both of you 💕

Seems like this has run it's course. What's the point of being married if you're seeing other people?

This is so funny to me. Usually the polys I see on dating apps have a hyperspecific "look" and I have to agree with you. They aren't my slice of lemon.

This is a rabbit hole of a Friday evening thread, lol.

I think the key here is to communicate with him. What difference is there really with the apps you use as long as the partner is aware you’re looking for a poly / swinger situation? It’s seems like he’s scared you’ll find someone more attractive than him and he clearly feels he’s on par of attractiveness with the apps he’s pushing for

Swingers are oftentimes ugly and overweight, i don't get the draw like eating lukewarm boxed macaroni.

Yeah he's doing that on purpose I bet every single on of the guys he rejected has been more "conventionally attractive" than him and that's the only reason. He's pushing people he feels superior to because he's insecure. You have to address this. Its a make or break deal in your marriage and this moment is the start of the end if you don't figure out how to work it out. Counseling is your best bet and he needs therapy for his self esteem because he's pretty much saying "because I don't love myself I don't think anyone else values me and will leave me.".

It is sexual experimentation these lifestyles will end your relationship. The women are not that attractive, but the men just use them. I grew up next to a commune, and these types of behavior of full of drama, drug and alcohol abuse and are short lived. I would suggest closing relationship. If he doesn't want to, you have some choices to make. I would not live like this, but that is just m e.

"He's always been very insecure about his looks. I fell in love with his personality, not how he looks, but for a secondary or for causal relationships, physical appearance is important to me. I like the men I like." "...I have a higher drive..." "My causal partners as a whole have been very conventionally attractive but it doesn't mean I don’t love my husband or that I don’t find him attractive too." Your own words pretty much paint the picture of what's happening in your marriage. The dude is insecure about his looks compared to you. Add to that a mismatched libido and he probably thought opening it up was the only way to keep you. And he obviously knows you are not with him because of your raw attraction to him. So you have a man who hears that you love him, but a) knows he is not your type physical attraction-wise and b) he can't keep up with your libido. Open marriage was his hail Mary. A false hope because he assumed you'd go for options within the swinging/sharing scene that didn't feed into his issues. Now that he is actually seeing with his own eyes what he was only suspecting before, that is the type of men you are physically attracted to, his insecurities have gone through the roof. His plan to keep you satisfied and hopefully with him has backfired, because you have no interest in people in the poly scene that mostly look like him. Now all it does is make his pre-existing insecurity even worse. Maybe people with experience in something similar in the poly subs could help more, but honestly to me this marriage is toast. One with appearance insecurities, a past of mostly long relationships and a comparatively low libido. The other self-assured, very attractive, with a history of short flings mostly based on psychical attraction and high libido. This type of mismatch entering an open marriage, is like a recipe for disaster. Doesn't exactly inspire hope about its longevity....

Sounds like he’s fine with you in poly so long as your dates are not attractive. Some insecurities on his part! Being poly means you are open to whomever..not the guy you hubby wants you to date..

If you’re looking for a couples or individual therapist I’d suggest looking for an LGBTQ+ oriented therapy group. Am a therapist and worked in one of these earlier in my career. You tend to see overlap between this community and poly/kink in mental health circles. I had quite a few heterosexual clients when I worked there and it wasn’t a big deal at all. They just tended to be folks who wanted to be sure they were seeing a progressive, open minded therapist.

Wait, why is your primary allowed to “not approve” of your partners? Vetting power like that is pretty much always a red flag.

I mean, you are saying that you dont find him attractive. Not directly but you are clearly insinuating it. Even here in this post. I can see why he is iritated.

Firstly , why do you need to go to these places with him? He’s not allowed to pick how and who you have as partners . Just another situation of men asking for things they think they want but really can’t handle .

You should post this in r/polyamory since I don't think that you will get much useful advice here. I'm monogamous but am familiar with poly. You said that you are on dating sites etc... are you looking for other poly/non monagmous people there or are you dating mono men? If mono then I understand his issue. Those men probably won't be familiar poly, might struggle with being 2nd, and might ultimately cause drama if they want you to be mono with them. I wonder if this is your husband's fear. If that isnt this case then I'd be interested in hearing what his concerns are. There are a mix of attractiveness levels among poly people, just like mono people. Sure, it is a smaller group so less options total. It is weird that you would assume everyone in poly is unattractive though. I've met plenty of very attractive poly people.

I tried. They removed my post for concern trolling. I get that it’s a common stereotype but I’m just asking how to deal with my husband’s insecurity. I’m dating men who know I’m in a poly marriage. I’m having a casual relationship. I haven’t dated anyone who says they’re monogamous. I think it’s just our area. We’re not exactly in a bustling city so the numbers are small. I could go to every poly event ever to see if I can fine a man I’m attracted to, and I don’t doubt there are but honestly it’s a lot quicker and easier to hop on tinder and find an attractive partner.

What is concern trolling?

I’m just guessing so take this with a grain of salt. Poly people have a stereotype of looking a certain way or being unattractive. The polyamory subreddit I think thinks I’m pretending to have an issue while actually insulting them which is not true.  I don’t think all poly people are unattractive but unfortunately for me I find the men in my local poly space unattractive and I am tired of my husband pushing me to like men I don’t want to have a relationship with.

The overwhelming majority of people that exist in "poly spaces" are unattractive, that's why they are there. Attractive people can find partners comfortable with them being poly in normal environments, the people in those spaces can't. There's no reason for an attractive poly person, especially an attractive poly woman, to go to these spaces or websites. I feel for you, it's a very awkward position to be in.

Every poly guy I've met looks like Comic Book Guy so...

Ok get your downvote buttons ready people cos I’m going to say it. When I was dating I was shocked at the people whose profiles said they were Poly. For the most part they were really physically unattractive. I found this shocking as as a woman it’s so easy to get sex with an attractive single man if you just want some fun, so why on earth would you want to be secondary to an physically unattractive one? It was totally wild to me. To address your post, it seems like your husband has fallen into the same trap many men who suggest “being Poly” do - he’s found out what both your “market value” is, and it’s the opposite of what he expected. I do love to see it. The reality is that if the main driver to the connection is sex, then the person needs to be sexually attractive, otherwise what is the point?

Can’t believe it took this long for someone to point this out—even when the man IS attractive, his ability to attract female partners in an arrangement like this is nothing compared to the ability of his similarly attractive spouse.