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The simplest answer is usually the truth.
So, either she came up with a lie, did a makeup photoshoot, photoshopped in the date and time stamp and waited until you were engaged to say anything so she could break you up after three years as a couple?
Or, they argued and he hit her, she took a picture, they proceeded to divorce and she felt obligated to tell his fiancée that he is capable of violence.
Occam’s Razor: this simplest explanation is often the right one.
Especially with the highlight on “think logically babe, use your brain it’s not true am I like that?”
Not to go too Reddit psychologist on this but this feels like the wrong response, if my fiancé accused me of this and I was innocent I would be primarily flabbergasted and caught off guard
When I got with my ex, his baby mama and him were not speaking. She would only fax him letters. I read many letters and she called him abusive. I was stunned this man I loved never raised his voice to me. We got engaged and then married two years later. He got mad once when we were in bed got on top of me and shook me. I still didn’t think anything of it. Then two more times he put his hands on me. Tried to choke me death. Cried and begged my forgiveness. It only happened twice because I left. When he wasn’t angry he was great. When he got angry he couldn’t control his emotions. Tread lightly OP. You were warned.
And nit to mention, yeah, it's actually really easy to hide domestic abuse. I see it all the time because I literally help people fill out their divorce packets. You have to let the courts know that your spouse is abusing you, otherwise they're not gonna know. The courts aren't mind readers.
Often times, my clients tell us and show us horrific abuse but ultimately say nothing because it's easier to pretend it's an amicable divorce than to get the courts involved in a domestic matter. The courts often won't get involved even if they do know about domestic matters because there's not a whole lot they can do if the spouse isn't being abusive this very second.
It's v complicated, but it's beyond easy to hide DV.
My lawyer had advised me not to pursue the DV from my ex-husband. She knew I wanted a quick getaway. She told me that it would become a hard fight in court. Even if I was likely to "win," it would cost a lot financially and emotionally.
Exactly! The ex-wife might not have had enough proof to sue for divorce based on abuse and decided to go with irreconcilable differences just to get away from him Divorcing because of irreconcilable differences is not proof that he didn’t abuse her. I, myself, wanted to sue for adultery, which he admitted to *me*, but he wouldn’t admit to it in court, and I didn’t have concrete proof, so we divorced on the grounds of “constructive abandonment” (this was before my state allowed no fault divorce proceedings).
She's 24 and engaged to a man in his 30s who she's been with since she was barely out of her teens. The fact that she's easily manipulated and assumes that he's telling the truth because of a bunch of "evidence" that isn't proof of anything is hardly surprising.
She thinks that because the divorce decree doesn't actually say, "Husband punched wife in the face" that that means something. I'm SMFH. Lots of abused women never report their abuse. His first wife probably just wanted out of the relationship ASAP, and figured that as long as he went along with the divorce, why complicate it by making it about him hitting her? It's so, so normal for women to just want these things over with.
He's gone after someone young and naive enough to actually believe his nonsense. None of this is surprising, but it's always heartbreaking. And it's going to be more so when she listens and goes along with him, the first time he loses his patience and clocks her.
I'll also add that depending on the state, whether he hit her or not wouldn't be anywhere in the divorce papers. My ex husband, who amongst other things choked me, could say the same thing to a future partner, but he DEFINITELY hit/choked me.
Also, if she just wanted to get away from him, and they were going to split everything pretty equally, I could see why she wouldn't bother saying anything to anyone, for fear of enraging him.
I'd tend to believe the ex too, because it seems she has no reason to lie.
Yes...irreconcilable differences is an often used catch-all in divorce actions. She could have landed in the hospital, but that doesn't typically get included in the "legalese".
Agreed. If this was a jealous ex motivated to ruin your relationship, why wait so long to reach out with this? Ex is trying to clear her conscience by letting you know something you should before marriage.
She waited because she knows her ex is capable of acting like a great guy. She knows he doesn't show his true nature until after marriage so you're "locked in" or stuck in a sunk cost fallacy mind set. So if she claimed something early on it's more likely she'd be disbelieved. Now that she knows marriage is happening she feels more pressure to stop it even at the risk of being disbelieved.
I agree. The ex also probably felt an obligation to say something now that they're engaged. What's REALLY really gnawing at me is he is continuing to lie. I believe the ex. He's doubling down and victim blaming which means he has taken no real responsibility at all. That begs the question of if it could happen again. He's also much older. Perhaps his true colors haven't revealed themselves fully in this current relationship. Op should, in fact, behave accordingly and take ALL of that into consideration before such a commitment.
I agree. OP there are always little red flags before the big ones comes. Does he do any if the following:
1) does he expect when he phones you, that he must get through to you on the first call?
2) does he have a issue with friends or family who are closest to you? Thanks they are a bad influence or are not respecting the relationship by taking up too much of your time.
3) does he have one rule for you and another for himself. He can hang out with friends and drink, but you can't.
4,) does he want your attention all to himself?
5) do you always end up second guessing yourself about choices and decisions you have made, one you talk to him about it.
These are just some of the smaller red flags that warn you that your in a relationship with an abusive person, if you answered yes to any of these questions then you know she's telling the truth.
Another really big one:
How does he respond to boundaries? *Including* really mild non-sexual ones. Is it hard to set a boundary with him? Does he get upset or does he seemingly accept it but then totally bulldoze it?
Answering “think logically” to her concerns really gives me a sketchy vibe as well. He’s already trying to win her “silly emotions” over with his great logic. And the age gap.
"Think logically" doesn't sound like something a person says after being falsely accused of a serious crime, and the lead-in, that the divorce decree would read differently, isn't the slam dunk he thinks it is. She didn't press charges, didn't want him arrested, kept it under wraps.
Bingo! I was afraid of my ex-husband by the time I divorced him but I made sure every interaction was non-reactive because I didn’t want anything to escalate.
I recall BEGGING Friend of the Court not to arrest my deadbeat ex because I feared the ramifications and I was long divorced by then. Thankfully, she ignored me.
Most divorces are "irreconcilable differences" even with blatant cheating, it's just easier for the court to push through. You don't need to prove it, like you would adultery.
Red flags, she warned you. I'd believe her if I were you.
Thanks. 🙏 Never knew him and didn’t mean to hijack OP‘s post, just underlining that irreconcilable differences can in fact be used even when massive violence was involved. As you pointed out, combined with that reaction, OP should tread carefully.
Yeah, it's pretty "irreconcilable" if one of them beat the other.
The two are not mutually exclusive at all.
And he punched her... that's odd. I can imagine getting so mad at my husband that I wasn't to slap him. But a punch? That's another thing entirely.
I think he *did* hit her.
I just commented this, but it’s a lot like when a villain goes “think about it” and has to twist things to make it seem logical when it’s not. Anyone who tells me to think logically gives me bad vibes. Like I’m not dumb, I know right and wrong and if you have to tell me to think logically when I already am soemthing is off..
Thinking logically means it's pretty obvious that the ex is telling the truth. If OP is really truly wanting to know, she can take the photograph to a professional photographer who does touch-ups and ask if it's been digitally altered. While you can color in bruises, you would really have to work hard to make skin get swollen, so it would be a matter of "can you spot any digital faking on this image?". A couple hundred of dollars for a professional opinion (if a professional photoeditor can't tell, OP should be able to find someone online who can) will tell her pretty much immediately that her soon-to-be-ex fiance is lying and an abuser.
Honestly photographer/ profesional photo editor here, OP if you want I can look at it! It just needs to be of high enough quality, if it's send trough something like whatsapp the image quality will be very compressed and it will be hard to tell what has been done (I can still check, it will just be less sure). If she send you both the screenshot and the picture via email it's a lot easier to see if anything has been done.
The age gap is a red flag. His ex got old enough to finally defend herself so he went and found another young girl. If them being too young was such a big deal and the reason they didn’t work out, why would he date another girl that was so young?
For visibility, since **OP wrote this comment and it isnt showing up on the post because it contains b-tch:** "I asked why she would lie, he said because she’s a b-tch so yeah."
I wish I’d read your comment 7 years ago. ❤️
OP just so you know I divorced my abusive ex husband and the papers say “irreparable differences” because we were never going to agree what he was doing to me was ok. I didn’t press charges because I was scared of him. She clearly didn’t press charges either so that’s why he’s saying stupid shit.
One of them has every reason in the world to lie to you, one gains nothing and is risking her abuser retaliating to try and help someone whose shoes she been in.
Edited for spelling
I told her the same thing. My ex husband was abusive towards me many times all throughout the years. The reason for the divorce was “irreconcilable differences.” I also never pressed charges because I didn’t want to ruin his life. Just the fact that I even cared about ruining his life shows what a number he did on me.
Yep. My ex was very abusive to point where my oldest son called the cops on him because he was afraid of what his Dad would do to me. There was no mention of abuse in our divorce and I got very little after almost 17 years together. I was too afraid of him to do anything but go along with what he wanted and still was even after the divorce. I only recently decided to stop caving in to his demands and we have been split for almost 4 years
I'd think a lot of people go with irreconcilable differences because getting their freedom is more important than *maybe* scoring a few points in a long, drawn out legal fight. One of my friends did it because his ex swore to fight it every step of the way if he made any reference to the abuse he suffered.
Plus legal slanging matches where every scrap of dirty divorce laundry is aired tend to be a privilege reserved for those with the money to spend years in court.
This. Just because their divorce decree says “irreconcilable differences “ does not mean anything it just means she didn’t try to use it in court or press charges… my ex husband abused me in every way imaginable physically, mentally, sexually, financially… he tried to throw me off a balcony in one of our last fights yet my final divorce decree says “irreconcilable differences “
She gains nothing from lying to you and quickly sending you a picture that supports her claims seems like the more believable option here. Rather than the man who is gaslighting you and using your lack of knowledge… with the disgusting “think logically “ line of a classic abuser.
Here's another thing to think about:
It was OPs fiancé's BROTHER that showed the picture to the ex. His own brother. While the ex does not come off as crazy in this post (in fact, she sounds incredibly measured with how she handled it), the key thing that stood out was the brother. He wouldn't want to start drama if he and his brother were close or if he didn't believe the ex. He wouldn't talk to her if she was making false accusations, right?
The photographic evidence also sounds convincing enough to take a deeper look. I'm sure the right person with the right skills could make that edit, but with the other evidence, and again, combined with her demeanor makes me interested.
And lastly, please know that having Irreconcilable Differences on a divorce decree, does not mean there wasn't something deeper happening. It's a catch all for things you don't want to deal with to speed up the process. I suspect the woman did not go to the police and file a report and therefore couldn't get a divorce based on grounds of abuse. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And the vast majority of abuse victims DONT file reports. Especially the first time.
Which brings me to my last point, it doesn't matter that he hasn't done it to you or shown signs before. Your own post said he hit her for the first time at the very end of their marriage. It was the last straw. That means he didn't lay a hand on her either, the entire time they dated or were married. How long were they together total? He showed what he was capable when the mask dropped. He hasn't dropped it with you yet, but he still could.
Don't ignore her. The nuances of this story ring true.
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that.
Not sure what basis he's using for this but it's complete bullshit.
>He told me to think logically.
I'm guessing the way those words came out was also pretty aggressive. He might wind up proving her honesty based on his reaction to this whole situation. Hopefully it doesn't end with you getting matching injuries with her.
Yeah "think logically" to me is a red flag. Men often use that to belittle women. "You're too emotional" etc. There's nothing illogical about questioning whether this woman is telling the truth. Blindly discarding her story is what would be illogical.
Like idk the full actual details of that relationship but any man who calls his ex-girlfriend or ex-wife a bitch is an immediate alarm bell for me. Especially if that ex stated he abused her.
Not only did he pursue a 21 year old, but supposedly his marriage ended because they were young and immature when they got together. So he went and found another girl that was young and immature and thought it was a good idea and would end well?
Oh god, I missed the age difference. YUCKO. This exwife sounds like she's not jealous toward you, and she doesn't have anything to gain here. Think hard, OP.
If she does think about this logically, the simplest answer is often the truth. The ex gains nothing by informing OP. It's a whole lot of trouble and nuisance to fake injuries and fake the date... for what? His divorce papers prove nothing at all.
I believe the ex.
Also, the age gap is problematic because of his own words. If he married too young why was he pursuing someone 21yo when he was close to 30.
He's preying on OP's inexperience
he didn't even point to the low-hanging fruit that OP included, aka "why would she wish me a happy birthday these past 5 years if I were violent towards her"
his logic isn't mathing, or whatever the meme is
for reference - my ex choked me once, bruised me up, and on a separate occasion broke my hand. I kept him on fb for years wishing happy birthday and etc. bc of trauma it took me too long to ask myself why I'd keep him anywhere in my life even on the edges. I wished him happy birthday this year and then deleted him. I still sometimes feel guilty for doing it and wonder if I was wrong to.
this shit goes deep inside you and is really hard to fully eradicate. I have to remind myself that I deserve to only have people that don't sometimes harm me in my life, no matter how nice they seem when not challenged or stressed.
Many times irreconcilable differences divorces are easier and cheaper than fault based ones. My ex was abusive and the divorce was irreconcilable differences because I couldn't afford a lawyer for a full court trial for fault based. Nor did I want to have to be in the same room as him.
"Think logically" really threw me off. I don't know how to word this but It's like he's implying that your not thinking logically and you need to listen to him. It's almost like he's trying to be dismiss your suspicions by acting what your saying is unhinged.
I agree 100% with this.
Is he trying to say that marriages that end due to domestic violence have that written on the divorce papers?? What an absurd assertion.
You were thinking logically, it's very condecending & belittling to say that to you when you were just asking genuine questions.
Good luck with your future, please make smart & informed decisions.
My logical thinking is that he gave her a favorable settlement to make sure she stayed quiet.
Also OP the fact you even had to ask the internet shows you consciously or subconsciously believe she was hit. If your heart knew it wasn’t true then you wouldn’t have even considered the possibility
"Irreconcilable differences” is a catchall phrase in dissolution, especially in states that don't *require* specific transgressions such as adultery. It covers everything from "I'm just over it," to "DNA proved none of my children are actually mine." Had she called the police if he hit her, that would be a criminal charge, and totally separate from the divorce (while obviously still being a reason for her). The majority of criminal charges and documents are available freely in public records, the majority of family law cases are not.
No fault divorce always says irreconcilable differences. Your fiancé is at least fudging the truth in that regard.
Why would she go to all this trouble? Why would she fake a photograph?
Him getting angry when asked about it is consistent with abuser behavior. If he calmly expressed confusion and then refuted it without anger, that would have been more believable for me.
I also get the feeling that OP has seem glimpses behind this mask but are lying to themselves that he isn't like that, was stressed, having a rough day/week. All the excuses victims of abuse use.
Also the fact that OP told him to his face after his anger at the news that she believes him but is here asking how to believe him.
OP, you know there is something wrong. Maybe push things a bit, in a safe environment. Often that mask slips when challenged or questioned. I would not marry someone I was not 100% sure about. You are not 100% sure, you need to do what you need to get sure. Not what he needs or bullies you into with his anger outbursts.
Yeah, the anger reaction was a tell. After I moved in with my then-boyfriend (he was 28/29 and I was 32), his ex wife told me he was violent with her and she wanted to warn me as well. But she didn't know that I already knew some of their history from their mutual friends and his family. She merely gave me extra details. When I told him what she had said, he didn't get angry at all. He just sighed and had me sit down and revisited his own trauma from being married to someone who had multiple mental health diagnoses and wouldn't take her meds (she's admitted this as well). She conveniently left out all the years she was abusing him and cheating on him until he finally snapped. But their friends didn't leave out those details. She also tried to claim he was cheating on me with her, but the times she gave were times when he was with me. In the nearly 13 years I've known him, 12 of which we were dating or living together and for the past year since we got married, I've ever once met the man she described. It's always possible I will, but he did t get mad that I was given more details, he seemed sad more than anything.
But my own abusive ex husband? My 20 year old daughter likes to tell his new girlfriends about him, and what he did to me and our kids. He still tries to use our 15 and 17 year old children to control me and punish me for leaving him and helping his second ex wife escape. The most recent gf was warned by my daughter, and wanted to talk to me. She had soooo many questions about inconsistencies in things he'd say or do. Not a week later, he started verbally and physically abusing her too, but he blamed me. Yeah, because *I* control his hands and mouth. The ones who react in anger like that are the ones I'm always leery about.
The best relationship advice I've seen on Reddit was from a woman whose daughter became engaged: "Do you like him? Every single thing about him? If not, don't do it." That lady could have saved me two (2) divorces.
Take it from someone who didn’t heed the last woman’s warning: be careful.
My abusive ex husband didn’t show any signs he would have abused me until after I was locked in by marriage. Long after I was warned off by his ex.
Your fiancé’s response is a red flag. The fact that he responded with anger is very concerning to me. My ex did the exact same thing. I chose to believe him. I chose wrong.
Please be careful.
I’m so sorry you went through this.
I’d add one more thing to this comment - the fiance response is a red flag, and also bogus. “Irreconcilable differences” does NOT mean “there’s been 0 domestic violence”…
he would know what it means and doesn’t mean - a divorce lawyer makes that clear.
so he has lied to op is my read.
Exactly.
Pretty much every "no-fault" divorce (and almost every divorce is a no-fault divorce these days since very few jurisdictions still allow for at-fault divorces... like, no one gets extra alimony anymore simply because their husband cheated. That's old school).
Anyway, all the no-fault divorces say "irreconcilable differences"
Yes, some places still consider domestic violence to be a valid "at-fault" reason for divorce, but for that to actually be on the papers they would need to live in one of those few places AND there would need to be a police report at the time of the incidents AND the arrest would have to have led to a conviction AND the person who filed would have to have chosen to bring it up in court (and many of those things would cause the abuser to become *more* abusive, so most victims just leave quickly and quietly and then file a basic no-fault, irreconcilable differences, divorce).
So, OP, don't think that whatever the divorce papers say is in any way to be proof or anything.
Agreed, the show of anger is likely intended to deter her from probing further, and the reference to the only grounds for divorce being 'irreconcilable differences' is a red herring - it just means they agreed to part ways in the most expedient way possible rather than go through the process of providing evidence of abuse. Which of course means there's no record of it.
That’s what my divorce said too. He wanted to use “abandonment” as the reason for divorce because I left to escape his abuse. I wanted to use his abuse as the reason for divorce. We compromised with “irreconcilable differences”.
Same! I was so sure that she was just jealous because she was a gold digger and he got away from her and she wasn't going to be able to live off him any longer. That one was a particularly hard lesson to learn
I was sure she was trying to break us up because she wanted him back. He told me she was a “crazy ex wife” and I believed him. Learning that lesson was expensive. Not in money terms (although it was that too) but in the emotional cost. I lost family, friends, my home, I gave up a LOT for my ex husband. And when he finally let his abusive freak flag fly I was trapped. I’m still paying for that mistake.
My first husband got violent and we divorced. Within a couple of years, he was engaged to someone else and hadn't known her for long. He could be very charming when he wanted to be. I felt I had to warn her and figured she wouldn't believe me, but I did it because I cared more about her safety than I cared about being believed. She didn't believe me. After they had been married a year, she called me and apologized for not believing me because he hit her. She never left him, though. Strange choices people make, but my conscience was clear.
I'm the ex that warned the next girlfriend...I won't say she didn't believe me at first, but he had her charmed enough to think he would be different with her than it had been with me. Until he wasn't, and she suddenly understood everything I'd told her and saw all of the behavior I'd warned her about. I helped her get out, and we are still friends to this day, 12+ years later.
Please don’t disregard her warning. In fact, I’d advise you to look for other red flags. If you aren’t sure what they might be, please read this free book on pdf. It’s called “Why Does He Do That”. Read it before you get married.
https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Abusers hide their real selves from their partners until their partner is trapped or hooked. Whether that is marriage, a baby, etc. Once they feel comfortable, then the abuse really begins to be more obvious. But like a lobster (or frog) boiling in a pot, the abuse can start subtle then escalate.
Even if you didn’t receive a warning, you should still be aware of red flags and what to look for because unfortunately, abuse is not uncommon. Don’t just focus on physical abuse, emotional abuse is just as destructive.
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that. He told me to think logically.
Ok. So lets think logically. Your husband just turned abusive and usually once they hit you once they'll hit you again. So what's the quickest way to get a divorce? Well it's certainly not one in which they would fight - and who would willingly sign off on a divorce saying you abuse your wife and make it public record? No one! Plus in the states that do let you divorce for that - is one punch enough? Or do they require a pattern to divorce for that reason? Or do they need witnesses? But either way her trauma would have to be dragged into court and her abuser could fight her if she went this route. So the quickest and easiest route to divorce and abusive spouse is no-fault and irreconcilable differences. This is especially helpful when the victim has a job and their own resources so they don't need a split of assets different from 50/50.
As for being able to hide it - it's hidden all the time! 1 in 3 women have experience domestic violence from their partner. 33%!!! That's not all being done by a handful of men, so that's a lot of men walking around with the majority of people not knowing their abusive assholes. Unfortunately they're not required to get a tattoo on their forehead after they abuse their first victim
So his "logical thinking" is 100% horse shit. Not every state allows you to file for divorce citing spousal abuse - and even if they do it takes a lot more effort and evidence to pursue it.
I think OP is missing that the relationship was already ending when the violence happened. She says she hasn’t seen him act like that - but neither had the ex wife until she crossed him
My divorce papers say something to the effect of “irreconcilable differences”, but that irreconcilable difference was that he was putting all of our money up his nose. Doesn’t matter what the papers say.
Yup. My marriage had some abuse but I didn't want to go through whatever it would've entailed to have that in court documents for our divorce. And my situation didn't leave any marks so not exactly simple to go to the police and have it mean anything other than more misery. I just wanted my marriage to be over and moved away.
So yea, "irreconcilable differences"
Bingo! Get me away from this terminal disease of a man ASAP. I think my state termed it “irretrievably broken”. lol
I’m tired of seeing these young women bringing forth a list of hideous grievances that make my jaw drop and then proceed to say BUT OTHER THAN THAT he is amazing, perfect, kind, and wonderful.
Congrats on losing the dead weight!
Hmm the fact that you felt you needed to lie is not a good sign. I think if you listen to your intuition, you will know.
There’s a reason you don’t feel safe to just say ‘ I don’t know what to believe and I need some time’
Dating women so much younger than him seems suspicious too. A lot of abusers know that younger women are often easier to manipulate.
Why don’t you meet her and get a feel for the situation?! Get a bigger picture of his behaviours in the relationship and how it escalated to this. See if there are any red flags you haven’t picked up on yet but notice when she’s explaining how things went with them. I would definitely take this seriously but I understand not automatically believing her.
This is the biggest red flag in the story: that she felt that she had to lie to calm him down. This shows that he was being intimidating at the least. It’s utterly normal that anyone in that situation would not immediately know what to believe, and saying so shouldn’t be too scary.
Yep. Our intuition doesn’t always show up in logic but we always know it in our body. It sounds like her instinct was to lie. And there’s a reason for that even if she’s not willing to see it yet. Deep down she knows
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that.
He absolutely would have been able to hide that if she didn't go to the police? Divorce paperwork is not a rap sheet.
Him insisting that "irreconcilable differences" is any sort of defense against her accusation is suspect. Him being so much older than you is suspect. Him pursuing you when you just turned 21 years old is suspect. Him accusing her of faking a photo is suspect. Him getting angry - suspect. Him telling you to "think logically" is condescending, at best.
I'd believe her.
Let's start with the fact that your fiancé was 29 when he started pursuing a 21 year old.
Consider what she would gain from lying Vs what he would gain from lying. Consider the fact that abuse often doesn't start until the victim is in some way tied to their abuser. Like via marriage.
Reporting abuse is hard, so it's not completely out of this realm that she didn't report it and use it as a reason for their divorce. Abuse is also incredibly complicated and trauma bonds exist which could explain her staying in contact. Logically it might make more sense to leave the abuse completely behind, but traumatised brains don't always work that way.
Have you asked your fiancé reasons that she would be lying? Is she trying to get him back? Just ruin his life for funsies? Did she mention what they were fighting about?
There’s nothing on my divorce paperwork to say that my husband was violent, but that’s why I did it. Divorcing someone like that is terrifying enough without risking enraging them even more, and it can take a very long time to be able to talk about domestic violence. FWIW, my husband was also friends with his ex, and although I don’t know he was violent towards her I know he did a lot of the other stuff - tracking her, stealing her money - that he also did to me
As others have said, it’s common for abuse to start after a victim is “trapped” - married, pregnant and/or financially dependent. That wasn’t quite how it was for me, but it *definitely* escalated sharply after we got married
Unless you’re leaving something out here, OP, I can’t see what his ex gets out of making this up. I don’t think I’d marry this guy
My cousin’s husband let his mask slip right after the wedding reception. Some abusers wait until you’re pregnant. Most of them do manage to keep the mask on for months or years until they think you’re “locked down.” Then they start slowly boiling the frog, ramping up the abuse in subtle ways so you don’t realize what’s happening and it feels normalized.
I would believe her. Abuse often doesn’t start until after they think they have you lockdown in. A shocking number of women are hit for the first time on their wedding night.
I recommend reading Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft to see if you recognize any behaviors described.
To anyone looking in from the outside, my divorce was very amicable. When I asked my therapist if I should warn his new girlfriend she said that the new ones almost never believe the ex, which is a large part of how abusers keep getting new partners. My divorce was also for “irreconcilable differences”. It’s difficult to get anything else in there, particularly if you are trying to push it through. Sure maybe she did edit a photo and send it to you. Anything is possible.
Note that once one gets away, abusers learn to make it that much harder for the next one to leave.
I tried to warn my ex's girlfriend after they'd gotten together. She blocked me. About a year and a half later, she unblocked me and sent me a message asking about what the circumstances were regarding our divorce because she thought he was treating her the same way. They weren't even engaged at that point.
My divorce with my ex was also "amiable", I didn't want to try and get the upper hand by getting him for DV because I was just so relieved to be getting out, I was more than happy to let it be classified as a mutual consent divorce. My ex also got better over time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd mostly treat his future partners better, but I know what he's like when he snaps, and you don't want that for you. His reaction to you bringing it to him is concerning, and I wouldn't believe him. If I could go back and warn myself before I spent several miserable years with him, I would. You need to make sure that's not going to be you, it's not a good way to live.
I am a certified dv advocate. I worked at a dv agency. I did my masters on dv as a public health issue. You believe her. You read James Lundy’s “why does he do that”. You look up how many marriages with abuse have that marked as the cause. You think about the large age gap and power differential brought on by that age gap.
Edit: author is Lundy Bancroft
A couple quick stats from the book:
- 2 to 4 million women are assaulted by their partners each year in the US. This number only addresses physical violence, not including verbal or emotional abuse.
- The US surgeon general has declared that attacks on women by their male partners are the #1 cause of injury to women between ages 15-44
- The AMA reports that 1 out of 3 women will be a victim of domestic violence by a husband or boyfriend at some point in her life
- The emotional effects of domestic violence are a major factor in female suicide attempts and are a leading cause of substance abuse in adult women
- US gov stats indicate that 1,500 to 2,000 women are murdered by their partner or ex partner each year, comprising more than a third of all female homicide victims, often times following a reported history of violence, threats, and/or stalking
- experts estimate that 5 million children per year will witness an assault to their mothers, a highly traumatizing experience that often leads to issues with mental health and behavior
- abuse of women has been found to be the cause of roughly one-third of divorces with children and half of divorces where custody is disputed
Seconding this recommendation, please read this book op! Google it and you can find the PDF for free online. See if any of his behavior lines up with what you read. Abuse starts so subtle and can be insidious. I would take his ex's warning with the seriousness that it deserves before moving forward with marriage.
Read. This. Book. Every women should read this. You can help identify patterns and you will probably help/change someones life
/e men should read it too. It helped me open my eyes to some abuse/manipulation tactics that I also used. You cant stop being an abuser until you admit you are one. Noone can change an abuser except for them and they have to be willing to give up all the control/benefits it brings. I could talk sbout this book/ topic for hours. Sorry for rambling
[You would benefit from this free copy of Lundy Bancrofts “why does he do that?”](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
In case you aren’t a reading type but still need Lundy
[Lundy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YmbrAWDft0s&t=1406s&pp=2AH-CpACAQ%3D%3D)
[Lundy webinar](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1mqzB-_kIig&t=1869s&pp=2AHNDpACAQ%3D%3D)
I believe her, she gave you the info, the evidence and now it’s on you. The fact that he is denying it is concerning as well because, truly she has nothing to gain and could have faced repercussions for making those statements, especially in writing. Also… I think part of you believes her too.
Well, he is lying that the divorce would look different and he couldn’t be able to hide it. Many women will choose irreconcilable differences or the equivalent for divorce despite abuse, for multiple reasons. That he said “think logically” is pretty insulting. He is implying that if you don’t agree with him, you are being irrational and emotional—ya know, like women are /s
believe her. she doesnt gain anything from lying. many men do not reveal their abusive tendencies till after marriage. so many women have said that the man they fell in love with and married wasnt who he turned out to be.
I filed the same way even though there was DV. She is most likely wanting to give you a heads up because she wished someone did that for her. What you do with that info is up to you.
OP, speaking as someone thinking "logically" like your fiance wants...
If the date on the photo was legitimate, and it was from a situation unrelated to husband, he would have had an immediate excuse of "she had that picture of her injury from x." if she had received a serious injury, her husband would definitely have known about it.
In other words, if there was another explanation for her injury, he would have said it immediately. Instead, he had to say she edited it.
If it was a pic OF HER FACE, I highly doubt she edited it or had it edited.
Almost all times women come forward about abuse it is true, statistics say this. The fact your partner was 29 when he started dating a 21 year old is a red flag, plus him saying the divorce would not be irreconcilable differences is a complete lie, DV is very rarely reported or taken seriously in the legal system.
It’s odd he said that he and his ex were really young and that’s why it didn’t work, but then he started dating someone who’s barely an adult and proposed while you’re still in your early twenties.
Take her seriously!!!
I highly suggest meeting and talking to her in person even if it involves travel. You can read a person much better in person and you’ll know if she is lying or not.
The fact he says she is lying would concern me, if he was defending himself or something he would have said that.
I agree with meeting her in person. She has nothing to gain from lying. If he was hurt and confused I would be more inclined to believe him but getting angry? That’s a red flag.
Irreconcilable differences goes down even if there is abuse or cheating. Rarely do they put those on the divorce papers- I know from experience especially if there are kids in the marriage.
From experience listen to the ex wife. She’s warning you. I warned my ex’s gf. It took a lot to do it. One listened and the other eventually got a restraining order.
So, I had an abusive ex. And I thought about reaching out to the woman he ended up marrying after me, but I didn't, because I fucking hated him so much I wanted no chance of him contacting me.
They got married and had kids, but it didn't last and he went on to marry a third and even younger woman than you, when he was in his 40s.
She left, posting about abuse, about 2 years into the relationship.
I know none of it is my fault or responsibility. But if I could go back in time and warn them both, I would. Even if they didn't listen.
I'm betting she's in her thirties, and she sees that you are in your early 20's, and she wishes some older version of herself could have warned the younger one.
My daughter just left a 7 year abusive relationship. The ex-gf tried reaching out to my daughter to warn her. Ex kept saying the ex-gf was crazy, couldn't take their relationship was really over, etc. Unbeknownst to us, her parents, she realized how true the ex-gf's warnings turned out. Took her years to get out. It started out very small, easily explained away until it wasn't. It's been almost a year since she ran. She ended up with a restraining order because he just won't quit harassing her.
Maybe, in a fit of whatever, he did hit her and would never repeat it. Maybe, he didn't and she is just making trouble. He needs to sit down and discuss your converns. This is tough. My daughter worries for the next girl too. Had we known, there would have been police reports filed. The ex-gf has since shared many such reports with our daughter and they have had conversations.
I feel for you. Please take care of yourself.
Divorce decrees often mention nothing of abuse. My ex abused me for years and when I was talking with my lawyer, she said because we lived in a no-fault divorce state, we couldn't really put anything about it in the court documents. I'm a little concerned about how your fiancé was a 29 year old pursuing a 21 year old. That's not a huge age difference, but in that age range, it should have a little analyzation of how he treats you. Yes, it is odd as to why she stays in contact. I would ask her directly. I would ask her what other things he did so you can compare for yourself if he's throwing red flags that you're just not seeing.
Please read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. [Here's](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) a free digital version. You can also buy a paper or Kindle version. Read it and see if any of the warning signs exist in your relationship.
Getting angry and telling you to "think logically" is not good green flag behavior. Telling someone how to process information is controlling and something abusers do.
I would think really hard. First of all abusive men tend to hide their abuse until they are married. That’s when it amps up. It also gets worse when their partner has a baby. So the fact he’s never hit you yet may mean nothing. Irreconcilable differences on the divorce decree also means nothing. They pretty much all say that. Secondly think about what happens when you disagree as a couple. Do you resolve conflict in a healthy way? If you don’t know, then you need to figure that out. A counsellor could help you. If you decide to proceed then Thirdly I would insist on pre marital counselling and I would ensure I had an exit plan including my own bank account.
Finally if you think her last behaviour eg wishing him merry Xmas etc is not how an abused woman behaves then you’re wrong. This is how women in fear of their lives behave. She is placating him. A chat with your local women’s shelter about the best place to seek guidance would be a good idea
I’ve been the woman warning another about my ex husband. She didn’t listen told me I was full of shit and he was the gentlest man ever….about 6 years later she contacted me saying he had hurt her and wanted my help. I told her I had already done all I could for her by trying to tell her what he was. It’s a hard thing to do to tell someone that someone they think loves them is a monster, I would be inclined to believe e her.
Also the wording of “irreconcilable differences” means nothing my ex and I divorced cause he beat me and stole money from me our divorce was labeled as “irreconcilable differences” it wasn’t “amicable” and asserts we’re divided per the court and once entered non-negotiable.
So he bullied you into keeping quiet about something that concerned you... thats not a very good sign
If I were you, I'd go in his phone on the sly and see what he's been texting her since she told you. I bet it'll tell you a lot about who he is.
100% he was abusive and he's mad that his new partner found out. He was almost 30 and went for a 21 year old for a reason. The manipulation is easier when you don't have as much life experience to go off of. OP is already having doubts even though it's obvious the ex is telling the truth. OP could ask any mutual friends or family and easily confirm things.
I’m sure when your fiancé married his ex, she sure wasn’t thinking “one day he’s going to hit me”. There’s typically not a “divorced due to domestic violence” reason on the decree, it’s usually “irreconcilable differences”. Which is exactly what happened- he hit her and she refused to be married anymore.
She has warned you, told you what happened to her. You can choose to use the information any way you want.
As someone who didn’t get my ex arrested or put anything on his permanent record even though I more than likely could have, she might have just filed for irreconcilable differences because she was afraid of him retaliating… It’s statistically proven that leaving is the MOST dangerous time for a victim of DV. I rolled over in defeat too. 🤷🏻♀️
Personally, I’d meet up with her in person.
I used to be the Ex and reached out to the new girlfriend to warn about the guy. He was mentally abusive and if I had been living closer to him I wouldn't put it past him that he also would have hit me. Please take this warning seriously. Be careful and listen closely to what he says and how he does it, don't brush it off and listen to your gut.
Honey. I wish his ex wife would’ve contacted me. She did you a huge favor, but when I was 24 I would have been so confident I could “fix” him and was so in love it wouldn’t have mattered.
This is hard and I get it. Take some time to think about this more at the very least
Your fiance's reaction isn't very empathetic, the fact you felt the need to lie to him isn't a good sign too.
I do feel like what she said could be the truth and i would advise to proceed with caution. Take your time and maybe get someone who can confirm this.
I have witnessed this a lot of times and leaving after marriage becomes difficult and blurred for survivors of DV
It is common for abusers to go after younger women. The abuse often does not start until they have you trapped in marriage. Ex-wife sought you out in a private, respectable manner, and gave you physical evidence. This man is an abuser. Read the book in this link, and I bet anything a few things stand out to you of things your fiancé is already doing to you.
https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I know nothing, but having the divorce stated as "irreconcilable differences" is not proof of anything. There are very very many reasons why that would be the reason stated, and "abuse" is never going to be the reason. Him reacting to this with anger and not concern for you is not a good look on him. Him minimizing your concerns and telling you coldly to 'think logically' is not helping his argument. You ARE thinking logically, and he is thinking with anger and coldness.
They married really young and things just didn't work out.
So he went and found a 21 year old?
Seems fishy.
The way you wrote this also makes it seem like he got super defensive about it. Idk maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Did his ex know you've been dating? Has she tried to reach him in the past? If they've been in contact, then this might be bad news. If she knew he was dating you, why wouldn't she immediately contact you?
Your long post left a lot of questions unanswered and did not provide enough info.
My advice is either learn as much as you can about your situation and the ex. Make a decision. Can't give you advice beyond that as you haven't provided a lot of information beyond his ex told you he hit her.
He is in his 30s and dating a 24 year old for this exact reason. A woman closer to his age would be more likely to leave after being given this information because she has more life experience to know another woman wouldn’t make this sort of thing up. His ex wife wouldn’t photoshop bruises to keep you from marrying him. Tell your friends exactly what happened, tell your parents too, do not go to him about it. Of course he’s going to say she’s lying. Do not marry this man. His mask will slip once you become his wife. You were given a gift many women aren’t. She’s right, please use it accordingly.
Exactly. Like, who really has the time to be photoshopping things to send to an ex husband's new fiance? Ain't no one doing all that!! She's trying to make sure no one else goes through what she went through. She likely didn't reach out sooner because she assumed the relationship wouldn't last and her ex would show his true colors before all this.
I'm so sorry, OP. There's a very real possibility that the ex is telling the truth. I recommend you contact her again, in person if you're able, and ask for additional info. Can anyone confirm her story? DO NOT let him know you're meeting her.
I also recommend that you tell him that you want to pause the wedding. Tell him it's moving too fast, you're overwhelmed, you just want a few months to not think about or plan the wedding. And watch his reaction very carefully. Do this in a public space where you can get away quickly or get help quickly. Try to have a trusted friend or family member nearby.
If you live together, get out. If you share finances, separate them immediately. Watch him for any changes in behavior. He suddenly can't wait to marry you and wants to elope tonight? Red flag. Love bombs you? Red flag. Won't respect your decision to pause the wedding? Red flag.
If you decide to move forward and marry him, please do not get pregnant immediately. Please keep your job. Please put money aside in a secret account that you tell NO ONE about in case you need to leave. Please keep your important documents safe. And do not let him isolate you from your friends and family.
Good luck, OP
The divorce papers are not proof of his innocence. It’s the easiest and cheapest divorce to get, and you can do it in a lot of states without an attorney. A lot of people go that route if they just want the marriage over as quickly and calmly as possible. Getting away is more important than getting stuff.
While there are people who will stoop low enough to fake being abused, it isn’t very common. The non-contested divorce makes me think there is truth to her story. If she made it up to hurt him, she most likely would have gone for blood in court too.
If you want the truth, you would need to speak to people who were their mutual friends around the time they split. But if you go digging in that direction, you run the risk of it getting back to him.
I would reach back out to the ex and ask questions. Why were they fighting? What happened? Did she call the police? That kind of thing. Get her whole story. Look for holes in the story. Then do the same with him. Get his full story of why they split and how. The truth will come out.
Maybe ask an attorney in your area but usually if it is a short term divorce with no kids, they don’t bother getting into abuse stories at court. Irreconcilable differences is a blanket statement for literally anything. That is NOT enough to justify his explanation.
The age gap. The reaction and weird argument is giving me red flags. Maybe see if you can corroborate with friends or family. If the story doesn’t line up, you have to trust your gut and leave.
He seriously told you to “think logically?” and then responded with anger and defensiveness? No. That is so condescending, and the way he’s reacting to this is very concerning. Take heed.
His response is very frightening. I would listen to her. It’s not normal to become angry at something that isn’t true.
A normal reaction to someone accusing you is either a simple straight answer, or genuine curiosity to your feelings about it, and responding with comfort.
Anger is a tool men use to control you. You have already put your own gut instinct on ice and discarded thoughts that may not align with your current experience. This is by his design, and he will continue to calm you crazy while he manipulates the situation.
My ex husband had an ex who warned me. I didn’t listen and he was an angel from heaven. Until he pushed me down the stairs when I was pregnant.
I left shortly after. A few years after that, I found out he ☠️. a girl he dated after me with his bare hands. Seriously. He’s in jail for life.
I would have warned her if I could. Listen to her and just go. This is not a normal response, and it sounds 100% true to me, bc I lived it.
Take it from someone who was warned, and ignored that warning.
Was a victim.
Then warned the next two girls, they also ignored that.
While that last one having THREE women warning her about him, it didn't do anything and she also fell victim.
Please. Some people will be crazy and make things up, but majority of these situations is real people saying real things that are hard to talk about
Ooh yea red flag. The age gap is bad, he absolutely should not have started dating a 21yo at 29 major fkn ick. Screams of adult women won't take my shit so I'll get a younger one who's easier to manipulate.
At almost 30 I met my partner who was 25 and that was concerning to me, any younger was 100% off the table.
The anger is another warning sign, plus, Think Logically, is majorly condescending and manipulative. He's calling you stupid for voicing your concerns.
Hun please take heed of all the other comments here, I guarantee there are things you're missing. Things you don't even realise are wrong in relationships because you've been taught by someone older, more experienced and frankly manipulative.
Look up the warning signs of bad age gap relationships and have a really good think about whether this man is actually good for you.
OP! While you're 'thinking logically' (that statement alone gives me the ick; so patronising and reductive) please look up 'See what you made me do' by Jess Hill.
Please stay safe.
There's a reason people are uncomfortable with age gap relationships: because of the power dynamic and differences in life experience. I'm not patronising you, but the life experience of a 24 year old is vastly different to the experience of a divorced 32 year old.
I swear half of these posts have huge age differences.
Yeah take the warning and make sure you keep that in mind. Abusers are really good at hiding it until they've got ya in a place they feel safe to start really digging in.
If he did hit her, he's probably learned from the same experience and will be more careful not to give you an out.
Filing for irreconcilable differences definitely doesn’t mean he’s not a wife beater, her not pressing charges also definitely doesn’t mean he’s not a wife beater. She has nothing to gain by telling you.
Well in this cases being 3 years around if nothing ever happened I tend to believe that while they did was horrible they could change. But since he opted for getting angry and stating that the ex wife is a liar, you better believe the ex wife. Some guys wait for marriage or even pregnancy to show their true self.
You're young, he met you even younger, 21 years, sadly younger people are easier to manipulate. I don0t doubt some relationships with age gaps can be healthy exists but when they persuade people in their early 20's for me is not a good sign.
No one wants to believe our significant other or someone really close and love to us is capable of harming someone but sadly that's a reality for many people and denial just hurts more people. The way he reacted is concerning as many comments have pointed out, you're still young and think you're in a bubble filled with love and obviously don't want to doubt the man you've been with for the past years but abusers never show signs early. I understand your doubts of her reasons to try to contact you to let you know her experience, many do this with bad intentions, however, I don't think she's lying. Not every divorce paper specify violence if the victim feels its safer for them no to include it so “irreconcilable differences” is very commonly used for this.
We can't tell you what to believe or to leave him, but we can tell you to be more vigilant on his behaviour and look for possible red flas, be careful because its your life and you're young.
I can tell you precisely why she stays in mild, cordial contact with him: because it can be safer to keep your ex abuser sweet than any other option. As they went to high school together, they will be connected via other people eg old friends. She'll feel safer to keep him at arms length and not being angry with her than cutting him off cold, which is probably impossible because of that school history.
I think you know this is true. She has no reason to lie to you. And most abusive marriages end in an irreconcilable differences divorce because abusers won't own up to what they've done. It absolutely does not indicate that bad behaviour was 50-50. His aggression when you asked him about this couple with his inference that you're illogical etc is very red flaggy.
“He told you to think logically” EVERYONE who has ever been abused will see that as gaslighting.
EVERYONE who has ever been abused has WANTED to reach out to their abusers new partners to warn them but, were worried about this exact response.
Talk to her!!! Ask when the abuse started cause dollars to donuts it was after they were legally married. First comes the happy love bombing stage, and as soon as you’re legally tied together or worse have kids, they stop hiding it because they know they have you hooked.
I’d bet my last dollar that if you sit down and think REALLY hard, there’s some red flags you’ve missed.
As somebody who has lived through DV, the second someone told me my partner abused them and had proof- that’s it I’m out/ as quickly and safely as possible.
Please note though IF he is abusive the most dangerous times for victims is when they figure out it is abuse or when they try to leave so, just be careful regardless
I remember when my exes ex told me that he was abusive to her and naive little ol me thought, he would never do that to me. After a year of being together the abuse started. As women I think it’s important to be honest and truthful with each other. But to also listen!
Any person who tells someone to think logically to get their own logic is usually wrong. You should have to say “think about it” if you’re telling the truth. Also please be careful and make sure he doesn’t contact his ex wife in a harsh manner. He might dm her privately and get upset at her for telling you…
He was angry at you for asking. That should tell you a lot. He wasn’t confused or embarrassed about an accusation. He got angry…not at the ex for saying it. At you, for asking for clarification.
Just because there’s no “proof” of it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Many times we don’t report for whatever reason. I never reported my ex and he almost killed me in front of my son. Reporting would’ve been very hard to go through, plus an endless battle, risking him doing something worse and on top of that, if he lost his job i wouldn’t have been able to have any help at all with ny son. I just dumped him and moved on with my life. But he tells everyone that listens to him a totally different story.
My divorce papers state "irreconcilable differences."
His prisoner profile stated "attempted murder, assault level 2, and forcible confinement"
Believe her.
His anger towards the accusation is very telling, as is your fear of being honest and feeling the need to lie to his face to placate him. She gains nothing from telling you this, other than hoping to save someone from an equal or worse fate to her.
ETA: I kept in contact with my abuser right up until his death, and I cried over the loss, too. Their continued contact doesn't lower believability.
Here’s the problem. That age difference, that’s a red flag. You were VERY young when you started dating. He wasn’t. Would you want to hang out with 18 year olds? No. You don’t have a lot in common. That’s what 29 year old has in common with a 21 year old. Troubling.
Irreconcilable Difference is very typical for a divorce. That proves nothing. And that he’d show that to you as some sort of proof….troubling.
Getting angry? Yes, that’s a worry. I’d think confusion, hurt and some anger, but being SUPER angry, troubling.
Nail in the coffin? “Think logically.” You WERE thinking logically. You heard something troubling and asked about it. What’s illogical about that?
I dunno. Don’t rush into anything and open your eyes to things that you may be ignoring.
You believe her. Why would she lie while trying to warn you? His anger tells you exactly that she’s telling the truth.
Life is not a film. She can still have civil feelings towards someone who did that, many people do. Many people love people who did that. But he did that. And she thought you should know.
Ask her if there’s anyone else who knew about the abuse at the time that you could speak with. It’s likely she confided in someone at the time, or someone knew/heard what happened. A neighbor, one of his family members, a mutual friend of theirs, etc. Ideally there would be a police call on record that you could verify, but it sounds like that may not have happened in this case.
As others have recommended, please read [Why does he do that? Author: Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf#page291)
I don’t recommend it in this case, if there truly is a history of physical violence, but other women have had success identifying a high risk of future DV issues, pre-marriage, by saying “no” to innocuous requests when they would normally say yes/agree, to test their fiancé’s reaction to conflict.
Honestly with the limited info I'm leaning towards this did happen and he's very ashamed of it. Maybe he has changed. Young people can get aggressive and make life altering mistakes. It being labeled as irreconcilable differences doesn't mean he didn't hit her.
Look at the picture more closely. Do YOU think it looks fake?
The most damning though is that he got ANGRY at the accusation. Generally when u accuse someone of something false, the first response is confusion. If you come at someone really aggressively with an accusation I could possibly see where anger would be a response, but it sounds like u brought it up as a question more so than calling him a woman beater.
Plenty of women have remained cordial with men who have physically attacked them unfortunately. I know a few. This doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Angry enough that you felt like you needed to stop talking about it. THIS IS A RED RED FLAG. He should have been willing to discuss this to your satisfaction even if it was completely made up.
He was very angry.
Not surprised, hurt, feeling betrayed or anything else. Angry.
If she was a nasty piece of work, why would she do just one thing to ruin his life now, instead of making a habit of it?
I would proceed with the greatest caution.
My parents' divorce was also for "irreconcilable differences" because it was easier than "husband is physically and emotionally abusive towards wife and children, financially abusive towards wife, and a gambling addict."
There are other people who were friends with them when this happened. Family and friends are powerful allies. Start asking questions.
Two ways of looking at this.
She is either telling the truth and is warning you for your own good.
Or
She is jealous and making up lies to try and break you up.
Without knowing this woman or your husband, nobody on this thread can tell which one it actually is.
I would maybe suggest trying to investigate yourself. Ask the woman if you can meet her and gauge her reactions and her story and compare it to your fiances.
Then make a decision.
Its a tough one but all humans lie whether its men or women so I would investigate this one with an open mind and use your good sense and intuition to make a decision
I believe her.. if she wanted your man she could've kept him. Instead she's finding strange ways to find you to warn you...girl code... Take the warning with what you will but, don't say no one told you . Also his reaction will 100% answer your question. What's your gut telling you ?
I believe her. Girl. Just sayin ..
Please read this
https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
You may see a lot of things you’ve missed/ignored
Well, just from the facts as you lay them out here, I believe her. His reaction was weird and controlling on its own, the age gap, and what does she have to gain from lying to you, anyway?
I remember when my ex husband's ex called to warn me too. I got so mad, I thought she was jealous and lying. That's what my ex husband told me. But he went on to abuse me to the point of breaking bones and strangling me unconscious so I would say you need to heed that warning.
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Based on your age gap I definitely would err towards believing her.
The simplest answer is usually the truth. So, either she came up with a lie, did a makeup photoshoot, photoshopped in the date and time stamp and waited until you were engaged to say anything so she could break you up after three years as a couple? Or, they argued and he hit her, she took a picture, they proceeded to divorce and she felt obligated to tell his fiancée that he is capable of violence. Occam’s Razor: this simplest explanation is often the right one.
Especially with the highlight on “think logically babe, use your brain it’s not true am I like that?” Not to go too Reddit psychologist on this but this feels like the wrong response, if my fiancé accused me of this and I was innocent I would be primarily flabbergasted and caught off guard
Heard this from my abuser so many times. "Use your brain!", "Why can't you ever think logically?", "You always believe the worst of me!"
When I got with my ex, his baby mama and him were not speaking. She would only fax him letters. I read many letters and she called him abusive. I was stunned this man I loved never raised his voice to me. We got engaged and then married two years later. He got mad once when we were in bed got on top of me and shook me. I still didn’t think anything of it. Then two more times he put his hands on me. Tried to choke me death. Cried and begged my forgiveness. It only happened twice because I left. When he wasn’t angry he was great. When he got angry he couldn’t control his emotions. Tread lightly OP. You were warned.
And nit to mention, yeah, it's actually really easy to hide domestic abuse. I see it all the time because I literally help people fill out their divorce packets. You have to let the courts know that your spouse is abusing you, otherwise they're not gonna know. The courts aren't mind readers. Often times, my clients tell us and show us horrific abuse but ultimately say nothing because it's easier to pretend it's an amicable divorce than to get the courts involved in a domestic matter. The courts often won't get involved even if they do know about domestic matters because there's not a whole lot they can do if the spouse isn't being abusive this very second. It's v complicated, but it's beyond easy to hide DV.
My lawyer had advised me not to pursue the DV from my ex-husband. She knew I wanted a quick getaway. She told me that it would become a hard fight in court. Even if I was likely to "win," it would cost a lot financially and emotionally.
Exactly! The ex-wife might not have had enough proof to sue for divorce based on abuse and decided to go with irreconcilable differences just to get away from him Divorcing because of irreconcilable differences is not proof that he didn’t abuse her. I, myself, wanted to sue for adultery, which he admitted to *me*, but he wouldn’t admit to it in court, and I didn’t have concrete proof, so we divorced on the grounds of “constructive abandonment” (this was before my state allowed no fault divorce proceedings).
She's 24 and engaged to a man in his 30s who she's been with since she was barely out of her teens. The fact that she's easily manipulated and assumes that he's telling the truth because of a bunch of "evidence" that isn't proof of anything is hardly surprising. She thinks that because the divorce decree doesn't actually say, "Husband punched wife in the face" that that means something. I'm SMFH. Lots of abused women never report their abuse. His first wife probably just wanted out of the relationship ASAP, and figured that as long as he went along with the divorce, why complicate it by making it about him hitting her? It's so, so normal for women to just want these things over with. He's gone after someone young and naive enough to actually believe his nonsense. None of this is surprising, but it's always heartbreaking. And it's going to be more so when she listens and goes along with him, the first time he loses his patience and clocks her.
I'll also add that depending on the state, whether he hit her or not wouldn't be anywhere in the divorce papers. My ex husband, who amongst other things choked me, could say the same thing to a future partner, but he DEFINITELY hit/choked me. Also, if she just wanted to get away from him, and they were going to split everything pretty equally, I could see why she wouldn't bother saying anything to anyone, for fear of enraging him. I'd tend to believe the ex too, because it seems she has no reason to lie.
Yes...irreconcilable differences is an often used catch-all in divorce actions. She could have landed in the hospital, but that doesn't typically get included in the "legalese".
Agreed. If this was a jealous ex motivated to ruin your relationship, why wait so long to reach out with this? Ex is trying to clear her conscience by letting you know something you should before marriage.
She waited because she knows her ex is capable of acting like a great guy. She knows he doesn't show his true nature until after marriage so you're "locked in" or stuck in a sunk cost fallacy mind set. So if she claimed something early on it's more likely she'd be disbelieved. Now that she knows marriage is happening she feels more pressure to stop it even at the risk of being disbelieved.
She didn't wait....she just found out.
This is a great comment.
I agree. The ex also probably felt an obligation to say something now that they're engaged. What's REALLY really gnawing at me is he is continuing to lie. I believe the ex. He's doubling down and victim blaming which means he has taken no real responsibility at all. That begs the question of if it could happen again. He's also much older. Perhaps his true colors haven't revealed themselves fully in this current relationship. Op should, in fact, behave accordingly and take ALL of that into consideration before such a commitment.
She probably wanted to warn you for her conscience. But what you choose to do after receiving that knowledge is your own choice.
I agree. OP there are always little red flags before the big ones comes. Does he do any if the following: 1) does he expect when he phones you, that he must get through to you on the first call? 2) does he have a issue with friends or family who are closest to you? Thanks they are a bad influence or are not respecting the relationship by taking up too much of your time. 3) does he have one rule for you and another for himself. He can hang out with friends and drink, but you can't. 4,) does he want your attention all to himself? 5) do you always end up second guessing yourself about choices and decisions you have made, one you talk to him about it. These are just some of the smaller red flags that warn you that your in a relationship with an abusive person, if you answered yes to any of these questions then you know she's telling the truth.
Another really big one: How does he respond to boundaries? *Including* really mild non-sexual ones. Is it hard to set a boundary with him? Does he get upset or does he seemingly accept it but then totally bulldoze it?
Answering “think logically” to her concerns really gives me a sketchy vibe as well. He’s already trying to win her “silly emotions” over with his great logic. And the age gap.
"Think logically" doesn't sound like something a person says after being falsely accused of a serious crime, and the lead-in, that the divorce decree would read differently, isn't the slam dunk he thinks it is. She didn't press charges, didn't want him arrested, kept it under wraps.
She was focused on getting away, not rocking the boat.
Bingo! I was afraid of my ex-husband by the time I divorced him but I made sure every interaction was non-reactive because I didn’t want anything to escalate.
I recall BEGGING Friend of the Court not to arrest my deadbeat ex because I feared the ramifications and I was long divorced by then. Thankfully, she ignored me.
Most divorces are "irreconcilable differences" even with blatant cheating, it's just easier for the court to push through. You don't need to prove it, like you would adultery. Red flags, she warned you. I'd believe her if I were you.
You could flip it too, he may have given her an “easy” divorce knowing she had this leverage over him.
Yeah, my mother‘s first husband killed my oldest brother and the divorce says “irreconcilable differences“.
Oh my God I'm so so sorry.
Thanks. 🙏 Never knew him and didn’t mean to hijack OP‘s post, just underlining that irreconcilable differences can in fact be used even when massive violence was involved. As you pointed out, combined with that reaction, OP should tread carefully.
So sorry for your and your families loss. That is truly horrifying.
Yeah, it's pretty "irreconcilable" if one of them beat the other. The two are not mutually exclusive at all. And he punched her... that's odd. I can imagine getting so mad at my husband that I wasn't to slap him. But a punch? That's another thing entirely. I think he *did* hit her.
I just commented this, but it’s a lot like when a villain goes “think about it” and has to twist things to make it seem logical when it’s not. Anyone who tells me to think logically gives me bad vibes. Like I’m not dumb, I know right and wrong and if you have to tell me to think logically when I already am soemthing is off..
Thinking logically means it's pretty obvious that the ex is telling the truth. If OP is really truly wanting to know, she can take the photograph to a professional photographer who does touch-ups and ask if it's been digitally altered. While you can color in bruises, you would really have to work hard to make skin get swollen, so it would be a matter of "can you spot any digital faking on this image?". A couple hundred of dollars for a professional opinion (if a professional photoeditor can't tell, OP should be able to find someone online who can) will tell her pretty much immediately that her soon-to-be-ex fiance is lying and an abuser.
Honestly photographer/ profesional photo editor here, OP if you want I can look at it! It just needs to be of high enough quality, if it's send trough something like whatsapp the image quality will be very compressed and it will be hard to tell what has been done (I can still check, it will just be less sure). If she send you both the screenshot and the picture via email it's a lot easier to see if anything has been done.
The age gap is a red flag. His ex got old enough to finally defend herself so he went and found another young girl. If them being too young was such a big deal and the reason they didn’t work out, why would he date another girl that was so young?
For visibility, since **OP wrote this comment and it isnt showing up on the post because it contains b-tch:** "I asked why she would lie, he said because she’s a b-tch so yeah."
She's a b but he kept in touch with her for many years after the divorce?
Eesh, every abuser has a ‘butch’ ex
I'd say calling your ex a lying b--- is a huge red flag. Dude has problems.
I wish I’d read your comment 7 years ago. ❤️ OP just so you know I divorced my abusive ex husband and the papers say “irreparable differences” because we were never going to agree what he was doing to me was ok. I didn’t press charges because I was scared of him. She clearly didn’t press charges either so that’s why he’s saying stupid shit. One of them has every reason in the world to lie to you, one gains nothing and is risking her abuser retaliating to try and help someone whose shoes she been in. Edited for spelling
I told her the same thing. My ex husband was abusive towards me many times all throughout the years. The reason for the divorce was “irreconcilable differences.” I also never pressed charges because I didn’t want to ruin his life. Just the fact that I even cared about ruining his life shows what a number he did on me.
Exactly. This. I bet the majority of people who were abused in their marriages have "irreconcilable differences" cited in their divorce paperwork.
Yep. My ex was very abusive to point where my oldest son called the cops on him because he was afraid of what his Dad would do to me. There was no mention of abuse in our divorce and I got very little after almost 17 years together. I was too afraid of him to do anything but go along with what he wanted and still was even after the divorce. I only recently decided to stop caving in to his demands and we have been split for almost 4 years
I’m sorry not only you but your kids had to live through that, happy you’re here and away from that :)
I'd think a lot of people go with irreconcilable differences because getting their freedom is more important than *maybe* scoring a few points in a long, drawn out legal fight. One of my friends did it because his ex swore to fight it every step of the way if he made any reference to the abuse he suffered. Plus legal slanging matches where every scrap of dirty divorce laundry is aired tend to be a privilege reserved for those with the money to spend years in court.
This. People do it because it’s the fastest path to freedom to just split everything and go.
This. Just because their divorce decree says “irreconcilable differences “ does not mean anything it just means she didn’t try to use it in court or press charges… my ex husband abused me in every way imaginable physically, mentally, sexually, financially… he tried to throw me off a balcony in one of our last fights yet my final divorce decree says “irreconcilable differences “ She gains nothing from lying to you and quickly sending you a picture that supports her claims seems like the more believable option here. Rather than the man who is gaslighting you and using your lack of knowledge… with the disgusting “think logically “ line of a classic abuser.
OP, have you reached out to his brother for his observation?
Here's another thing to think about: It was OPs fiancé's BROTHER that showed the picture to the ex. His own brother. While the ex does not come off as crazy in this post (in fact, she sounds incredibly measured with how she handled it), the key thing that stood out was the brother. He wouldn't want to start drama if he and his brother were close or if he didn't believe the ex. He wouldn't talk to her if she was making false accusations, right? The photographic evidence also sounds convincing enough to take a deeper look. I'm sure the right person with the right skills could make that edit, but with the other evidence, and again, combined with her demeanor makes me interested. And lastly, please know that having Irreconcilable Differences on a divorce decree, does not mean there wasn't something deeper happening. It's a catch all for things you don't want to deal with to speed up the process. I suspect the woman did not go to the police and file a report and therefore couldn't get a divorce based on grounds of abuse. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And the vast majority of abuse victims DONT file reports. Especially the first time. Which brings me to my last point, it doesn't matter that he hasn't done it to you or shown signs before. Your own post said he hit her for the first time at the very end of their marriage. It was the last straw. That means he didn't lay a hand on her either, the entire time they dated or were married. How long were they together total? He showed what he was capable when the mask dropped. He hasn't dropped it with you yet, but he still could. Don't ignore her. The nuances of this story ring true.
>But what you choose to do after receiving that knowledge is your own choice. Are you willing to risk marrying him, if she's telling the truth?
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that. Not sure what basis he's using for this but it's complete bullshit. >He told me to think logically. I'm guessing the way those words came out was also pretty aggressive. He might wind up proving her honesty based on his reaction to this whole situation. Hopefully it doesn't end with you getting matching injuries with her.
Yeah "think logically" to me is a red flag. Men often use that to belittle women. "You're too emotional" etc. There's nothing illogical about questioning whether this woman is telling the truth. Blindly discarding her story is what would be illogical.
Right. And it's exactly the kind of arrogant, demeaning comment someone who pursued a 21 year old at almost 30 would make.
>"I asked why she would lie, he said because she’s a bitch so yeah. From OP. ^
Well that tracks with the rest of what she's relayed about his behavior since that incident.
Like idk the full actual details of that relationship but any man who calls his ex-girlfriend or ex-wife a bitch is an immediate alarm bell for me. Especially if that ex stated he abused her.
Every ex of an abuser was crazy, if you ask the abuser.
My abusive ex loves to tell everyone I'm a liar.
Not only did he pursue a 21 year old, but supposedly his marriage ended because they were young and immature when they got together. So he went and found another girl that was young and immature and thought it was a good idea and would end well?
Oh god, I missed the age difference. YUCKO. This exwife sounds like she's not jealous toward you, and she doesn't have anything to gain here. Think hard, OP.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It's a very inappropriate age gap. (Please don't downvote me)
As soon as someone says think logically, they actually want you to think illogically
If she does think about this logically, the simplest answer is often the truth. The ex gains nothing by informing OP. It's a whole lot of trouble and nuisance to fake injuries and fake the date... for what? His divorce papers prove nothing at all. I believe the ex. Also, the age gap is problematic because of his own words. If he married too young why was he pursuing someone 21yo when he was close to 30. He's preying on OP's inexperience
he didn't even point to the low-hanging fruit that OP included, aka "why would she wish me a happy birthday these past 5 years if I were violent towards her" his logic isn't mathing, or whatever the meme is
for reference - my ex choked me once, bruised me up, and on a separate occasion broke my hand. I kept him on fb for years wishing happy birthday and etc. bc of trauma it took me too long to ask myself why I'd keep him anywhere in my life even on the edges. I wished him happy birthday this year and then deleted him. I still sometimes feel guilty for doing it and wonder if I was wrong to. this shit goes deep inside you and is really hard to fully eradicate. I have to remind myself that I deserve to only have people that don't sometimes harm me in my life, no matter how nice they seem when not challenged or stressed.
Many times irreconcilable differences divorces are easier and cheaper than fault based ones. My ex was abusive and the divorce was irreconcilable differences because I couldn't afford a lawyer for a full court trial for fault based. Nor did I want to have to be in the same room as him.
"Think logically" really threw me off. I don't know how to word this but It's like he's implying that your not thinking logically and you need to listen to him. It's almost like he's trying to be dismiss your suspicions by acting what your saying is unhinged.
It’s also highly misogynistic. Men like to think they are the “logical” ones while women are the “emotional” ones. Add in OPs age, and yeah.
“Think logically” might as well be the catchphrase of every gaslighting abuser.
I agree 100% with this. Is he trying to say that marriages that end due to domestic violence have that written on the divorce papers?? What an absurd assertion. You were thinking logically, it's very condecending & belittling to say that to you when you were just asking genuine questions. Good luck with your future, please make smart & informed decisions.
My logical thinking is that he gave her a favorable settlement to make sure she stayed quiet. Also OP the fact you even had to ask the internet shows you consciously or subconsciously believe she was hit. If your heart knew it wasn’t true then you wouldn’t have even considered the possibility
"Irreconcilable differences” is a catchall phrase in dissolution, especially in states that don't *require* specific transgressions such as adultery. It covers everything from "I'm just over it," to "DNA proved none of my children are actually mine." Had she called the police if he hit her, that would be a criminal charge, and totally separate from the divorce (while obviously still being a reason for her). The majority of criminal charges and documents are available freely in public records, the majority of family law cases are not.
All divorces in most states ( I’m assuming you’re in the US) are irreconcilable differences I think New York is the exception!
No fault divorce always says irreconcilable differences. Your fiancé is at least fudging the truth in that regard. Why would she go to all this trouble? Why would she fake a photograph? Him getting angry when asked about it is consistent with abuser behavior. If he calmly expressed confusion and then refuted it without anger, that would have been more believable for me.
Yeah, I feel like the anger at the accusation was a huge red flag.
Yes, I agree! If someone told me an ex claimed I punched them, I wouldn't get angry, I would be entirely bewildered. Like - what? Why? How?
I also get the feeling that OP has seem glimpses behind this mask but are lying to themselves that he isn't like that, was stressed, having a rough day/week. All the excuses victims of abuse use. Also the fact that OP told him to his face after his anger at the news that she believes him but is here asking how to believe him. OP, you know there is something wrong. Maybe push things a bit, in a safe environment. Often that mask slips when challenged or questioned. I would not marry someone I was not 100% sure about. You are not 100% sure, you need to do what you need to get sure. Not what he needs or bullies you into with his anger outbursts.
Yeah, the anger reaction was a tell. After I moved in with my then-boyfriend (he was 28/29 and I was 32), his ex wife told me he was violent with her and she wanted to warn me as well. But she didn't know that I already knew some of their history from their mutual friends and his family. She merely gave me extra details. When I told him what she had said, he didn't get angry at all. He just sighed and had me sit down and revisited his own trauma from being married to someone who had multiple mental health diagnoses and wouldn't take her meds (she's admitted this as well). She conveniently left out all the years she was abusing him and cheating on him until he finally snapped. But their friends didn't leave out those details. She also tried to claim he was cheating on me with her, but the times she gave were times when he was with me. In the nearly 13 years I've known him, 12 of which we were dating or living together and for the past year since we got married, I've ever once met the man she described. It's always possible I will, but he did t get mad that I was given more details, he seemed sad more than anything. But my own abusive ex husband? My 20 year old daughter likes to tell his new girlfriends about him, and what he did to me and our kids. He still tries to use our 15 and 17 year old children to control me and punish me for leaving him and helping his second ex wife escape. The most recent gf was warned by my daughter, and wanted to talk to me. She had soooo many questions about inconsistencies in things he'd say or do. Not a week later, he started verbally and physically abusing her too, but he blamed me. Yeah, because *I* control his hands and mouth. The ones who react in anger like that are the ones I'm always leery about.
Good for you for helping 2nd wife and daughter warning GF!
The best relationship advice I've seen on Reddit was from a woman whose daughter became engaged: "Do you like him? Every single thing about him? If not, don't do it." That lady could have saved me two (2) divorces.
Basically his while reaction is rubbing my the wrong way.
Take it from someone who didn’t heed the last woman’s warning: be careful. My abusive ex husband didn’t show any signs he would have abused me until after I was locked in by marriage. Long after I was warned off by his ex. Your fiancé’s response is a red flag. The fact that he responded with anger is very concerning to me. My ex did the exact same thing. I chose to believe him. I chose wrong. Please be careful.
I’m so sorry you went through this. I’d add one more thing to this comment - the fiance response is a red flag, and also bogus. “Irreconcilable differences” does NOT mean “there’s been 0 domestic violence”… he would know what it means and doesn’t mean - a divorce lawyer makes that clear. so he has lied to op is my read.
Exactly. Pretty much every "no-fault" divorce (and almost every divorce is a no-fault divorce these days since very few jurisdictions still allow for at-fault divorces... like, no one gets extra alimony anymore simply because their husband cheated. That's old school). Anyway, all the no-fault divorces say "irreconcilable differences" Yes, some places still consider domestic violence to be a valid "at-fault" reason for divorce, but for that to actually be on the papers they would need to live in one of those few places AND there would need to be a police report at the time of the incidents AND the arrest would have to have led to a conviction AND the person who filed would have to have chosen to bring it up in court (and many of those things would cause the abuser to become *more* abusive, so most victims just leave quickly and quietly and then file a basic no-fault, irreconcilable differences, divorce). So, OP, don't think that whatever the divorce papers say is in any way to be proof or anything.
Agreed, the show of anger is likely intended to deter her from probing further, and the reference to the only grounds for divorce being 'irreconcilable differences' is a red herring - it just means they agreed to part ways in the most expedient way possible rather than go through the process of providing evidence of abuse. Which of course means there's no record of it.
That’s what my divorce said too. He wanted to use “abandonment” as the reason for divorce because I left to escape his abuse. I wanted to use his abuse as the reason for divorce. We compromised with “irreconcilable differences”.
Same! I was so sure that she was just jealous because she was a gold digger and he got away from her and she wasn't going to be able to live off him any longer. That one was a particularly hard lesson to learn
I was sure she was trying to break us up because she wanted him back. He told me she was a “crazy ex wife” and I believed him. Learning that lesson was expensive. Not in money terms (although it was that too) but in the emotional cost. I lost family, friends, my home, I gave up a LOT for my ex husband. And when he finally let his abusive freak flag fly I was trapped. I’m still paying for that mistake.
My first husband got violent and we divorced. Within a couple of years, he was engaged to someone else and hadn't known her for long. He could be very charming when he wanted to be. I felt I had to warn her and figured she wouldn't believe me, but I did it because I cared more about her safety than I cared about being believed. She didn't believe me. After they had been married a year, she called me and apologized for not believing me because he hit her. She never left him, though. Strange choices people make, but my conscience was clear.
I'm the ex that warned the next girlfriend...I won't say she didn't believe me at first, but he had her charmed enough to think he would be different with her than it had been with me. Until he wasn't, and she suddenly understood everything I'd told her and saw all of the behavior I'd warned her about. I helped her get out, and we are still friends to this day, 12+ years later.
So wholesome.. but I'm sorry you both had to go through it
Please don’t disregard her warning. In fact, I’d advise you to look for other red flags. If you aren’t sure what they might be, please read this free book on pdf. It’s called “Why Does He Do That”. Read it before you get married. https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Abusers hide their real selves from their partners until their partner is trapped or hooked. Whether that is marriage, a baby, etc. Once they feel comfortable, then the abuse really begins to be more obvious. But like a lobster (or frog) boiling in a pot, the abuse can start subtle then escalate. Even if you didn’t receive a warning, you should still be aware of red flags and what to look for because unfortunately, abuse is not uncommon. Don’t just focus on physical abuse, emotional abuse is just as destructive.
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that. He told me to think logically. Ok. So lets think logically. Your husband just turned abusive and usually once they hit you once they'll hit you again. So what's the quickest way to get a divorce? Well it's certainly not one in which they would fight - and who would willingly sign off on a divorce saying you abuse your wife and make it public record? No one! Plus in the states that do let you divorce for that - is one punch enough? Or do they require a pattern to divorce for that reason? Or do they need witnesses? But either way her trauma would have to be dragged into court and her abuser could fight her if she went this route. So the quickest and easiest route to divorce and abusive spouse is no-fault and irreconcilable differences. This is especially helpful when the victim has a job and their own resources so they don't need a split of assets different from 50/50. As for being able to hide it - it's hidden all the time! 1 in 3 women have experience domestic violence from their partner. 33%!!! That's not all being done by a handful of men, so that's a lot of men walking around with the majority of people not knowing their abusive assholes. Unfortunately they're not required to get a tattoo on their forehead after they abuse their first victim So his "logical thinking" is 100% horse shit. Not every state allows you to file for divorce citing spousal abuse - and even if they do it takes a lot more effort and evidence to pursue it.
I think OP is missing that the relationship was already ending when the violence happened. She says she hasn’t seen him act like that - but neither had the ex wife until she crossed him
My divorce papers say something to the effect of “irreconcilable differences”, but that irreconcilable difference was that he was putting all of our money up his nose. Doesn’t matter what the papers say.
Yup. My marriage had some abuse but I didn't want to go through whatever it would've entailed to have that in court documents for our divorce. And my situation didn't leave any marks so not exactly simple to go to the police and have it mean anything other than more misery. I just wanted my marriage to be over and moved away. So yea, "irreconcilable differences"
Bingo! Get me away from this terminal disease of a man ASAP. I think my state termed it “irretrievably broken”. lol I’m tired of seeing these young women bringing forth a list of hideous grievances that make my jaw drop and then proceed to say BUT OTHER THAN THAT he is amazing, perfect, kind, and wonderful. Congrats on losing the dead weight!
Hmm the fact that you felt you needed to lie is not a good sign. I think if you listen to your intuition, you will know. There’s a reason you don’t feel safe to just say ‘ I don’t know what to believe and I need some time’ Dating women so much younger than him seems suspicious too. A lot of abusers know that younger women are often easier to manipulate. Why don’t you meet her and get a feel for the situation?! Get a bigger picture of his behaviours in the relationship and how it escalated to this. See if there are any red flags you haven’t picked up on yet but notice when she’s explaining how things went with them. I would definitely take this seriously but I understand not automatically believing her.
This is the biggest red flag in the story: that she felt that she had to lie to calm him down. This shows that he was being intimidating at the least. It’s utterly normal that anyone in that situation would not immediately know what to believe, and saying so shouldn’t be too scary.
Yep. Our intuition doesn’t always show up in logic but we always know it in our body. It sounds like her instinct was to lie. And there’s a reason for that even if she’s not willing to see it yet. Deep down she knows
>He showed me clearly how the divorce was stated as “irreconcilable differences” and nothing else. He told me if he had hit her, it all would’ve been very different and he wouldn’t be able to hide that. He absolutely would have been able to hide that if she didn't go to the police? Divorce paperwork is not a rap sheet.
Him insisting that "irreconcilable differences" is any sort of defense against her accusation is suspect. Him being so much older than you is suspect. Him pursuing you when you just turned 21 years old is suspect. Him accusing her of faking a photo is suspect. Him getting angry - suspect. Him telling you to "think logically" is condescending, at best. I'd believe her.
Let's start with the fact that your fiancé was 29 when he started pursuing a 21 year old. Consider what she would gain from lying Vs what he would gain from lying. Consider the fact that abuse often doesn't start until the victim is in some way tied to their abuser. Like via marriage. Reporting abuse is hard, so it's not completely out of this realm that she didn't report it and use it as a reason for their divorce. Abuse is also incredibly complicated and trauma bonds exist which could explain her staying in contact. Logically it might make more sense to leave the abuse completely behind, but traumatised brains don't always work that way. Have you asked your fiancé reasons that she would be lying? Is she trying to get him back? Just ruin his life for funsies? Did she mention what they were fighting about?
There’s nothing on my divorce paperwork to say that my husband was violent, but that’s why I did it. Divorcing someone like that is terrifying enough without risking enraging them even more, and it can take a very long time to be able to talk about domestic violence. FWIW, my husband was also friends with his ex, and although I don’t know he was violent towards her I know he did a lot of the other stuff - tracking her, stealing her money - that he also did to me As others have said, it’s common for abuse to start after a victim is “trapped” - married, pregnant and/or financially dependent. That wasn’t quite how it was for me, but it *definitely* escalated sharply after we got married Unless you’re leaving something out here, OP, I can’t see what his ex gets out of making this up. I don’t think I’d marry this guy
I'm so sorry you went through that but thank you for sharing your experience for OP.
I’m so sorry, I’m glad you divorced him ❤️🩹
Not to mention that many (abusive) spouses start physically abusing their partner after marriage
Or after a baby/during pregnancy.
I was 7 months pregnant the first time my ex hit me.
My cousin’s husband let his mask slip right after the wedding reception. Some abusers wait until you’re pregnant. Most of them do manage to keep the mask on for months or years until they think you’re “locked down.” Then they start slowly boiling the frog, ramping up the abuse in subtle ways so you don’t realize what’s happening and it feels normalized.
I would believe her. Abuse often doesn’t start until after they think they have you lockdown in. A shocking number of women are hit for the first time on their wedding night. I recommend reading Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft to see if you recognize any behaviors described. To anyone looking in from the outside, my divorce was very amicable. When I asked my therapist if I should warn his new girlfriend she said that the new ones almost never believe the ex, which is a large part of how abusers keep getting new partners. My divorce was also for “irreconcilable differences”. It’s difficult to get anything else in there, particularly if you are trying to push it through. Sure maybe she did edit a photo and send it to you. Anything is possible. Note that once one gets away, abusers learn to make it that much harder for the next one to leave.
I tried to warn my ex's girlfriend after they'd gotten together. She blocked me. About a year and a half later, she unblocked me and sent me a message asking about what the circumstances were regarding our divorce because she thought he was treating her the same way. They weren't even engaged at that point.
My divorce with my ex was also "amiable", I didn't want to try and get the upper hand by getting him for DV because I was just so relieved to be getting out, I was more than happy to let it be classified as a mutual consent divorce. My ex also got better over time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd mostly treat his future partners better, but I know what he's like when he snaps, and you don't want that for you. His reaction to you bringing it to him is concerning, and I wouldn't believe him. If I could go back and warn myself before I spent several miserable years with him, I would. You need to make sure that's not going to be you, it's not a good way to live.
I'm also doing the amicable divorce thing. If I don't, my ex will certainly try to "punish" me for it. And by me, I mean our children.
I am a certified dv advocate. I worked at a dv agency. I did my masters on dv as a public health issue. You believe her. You read James Lundy’s “why does he do that”. You look up how many marriages with abuse have that marked as the cause. You think about the large age gap and power differential brought on by that age gap. Edit: author is Lundy Bancroft
A couple quick stats from the book: - 2 to 4 million women are assaulted by their partners each year in the US. This number only addresses physical violence, not including verbal or emotional abuse. - The US surgeon general has declared that attacks on women by their male partners are the #1 cause of injury to women between ages 15-44 - The AMA reports that 1 out of 3 women will be a victim of domestic violence by a husband or boyfriend at some point in her life - The emotional effects of domestic violence are a major factor in female suicide attempts and are a leading cause of substance abuse in adult women - US gov stats indicate that 1,500 to 2,000 women are murdered by their partner or ex partner each year, comprising more than a third of all female homicide victims, often times following a reported history of violence, threats, and/or stalking - experts estimate that 5 million children per year will witness an assault to their mothers, a highly traumatizing experience that often leads to issues with mental health and behavior - abuse of women has been found to be the cause of roughly one-third of divorces with children and half of divorces where custody is disputed
Seconding this recommendation, please read this book op! Google it and you can find the PDF for free online. See if any of his behavior lines up with what you read. Abuse starts so subtle and can be insidious. I would take his ex's warning with the seriousness that it deserves before moving forward with marriage.
Great book recommendation. I believe the author is Lundy Bancroft
Yes, thank you for correcting me!
Read. This. Book. Every women should read this. You can help identify patterns and you will probably help/change someones life /e men should read it too. It helped me open my eyes to some abuse/manipulation tactics that I also used. You cant stop being an abuser until you admit you are one. Noone can change an abuser except for them and they have to be willing to give up all the control/benefits it brings. I could talk sbout this book/ topic for hours. Sorry for rambling
[You would benefit from this free copy of Lundy Bancrofts “why does he do that?”](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) In case you aren’t a reading type but still need Lundy [Lundy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YmbrAWDft0s&t=1406s&pp=2AH-CpACAQ%3D%3D) [Lundy webinar](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1mqzB-_kIig&t=1869s&pp=2AHNDpACAQ%3D%3D)
I believe her, she gave you the info, the evidence and now it’s on you. The fact that he is denying it is concerning as well because, truly she has nothing to gain and could have faced repercussions for making those statements, especially in writing. Also… I think part of you believes her too.
OP wouldn't have lied to calm him down if a part of her didn't believe his ex
Well, he is lying that the divorce would look different and he couldn’t be able to hide it. Many women will choose irreconcilable differences or the equivalent for divorce despite abuse, for multiple reasons. That he said “think logically” is pretty insulting. He is implying that if you don’t agree with him, you are being irrational and emotional—ya know, like women are /s
believe her. she doesnt gain anything from lying. many men do not reveal their abusive tendencies till after marriage. so many women have said that the man they fell in love with and married wasnt who he turned out to be.
If she wanted to break up the relationship, she would have done it years ago. Believe her.
His aggressive response tells you all you need to know.
I filed the same way even though there was DV. She is most likely wanting to give you a heads up because she wished someone did that for her. What you do with that info is up to you.
OP, speaking as someone thinking "logically" like your fiance wants... If the date on the photo was legitimate, and it was from a situation unrelated to husband, he would have had an immediate excuse of "she had that picture of her injury from x." if she had received a serious injury, her husband would definitely have known about it. In other words, if there was another explanation for her injury, he would have said it immediately. Instead, he had to say she edited it. If it was a pic OF HER FACE, I highly doubt she edited it or had it edited.
You are very lucky that she reached out before it was too late for you. Take her seriously.
Almost all times women come forward about abuse it is true, statistics say this. The fact your partner was 29 when he started dating a 21 year old is a red flag, plus him saying the divorce would not be irreconcilable differences is a complete lie, DV is very rarely reported or taken seriously in the legal system. It’s odd he said that he and his ex were really young and that’s why it didn’t work, but then he started dating someone who’s barely an adult and proposed while you’re still in your early twenties.
Take her seriously!!! I highly suggest meeting and talking to her in person even if it involves travel. You can read a person much better in person and you’ll know if she is lying or not. The fact he says she is lying would concern me, if he was defending himself or something he would have said that.
I agree with meeting her in person. She has nothing to gain from lying. If he was hurt and confused I would be more inclined to believe him but getting angry? That’s a red flag.
Irreconcilable differences goes down even if there is abuse or cheating. Rarely do they put those on the divorce papers- I know from experience especially if there are kids in the marriage. From experience listen to the ex wife. She’s warning you. I warned my ex’s gf. It took a lot to do it. One listened and the other eventually got a restraining order.
>He told me to think logically How often does he say things like this to you? Does he regularly doubt your logic?
So, I had an abusive ex. And I thought about reaching out to the woman he ended up marrying after me, but I didn't, because I fucking hated him so much I wanted no chance of him contacting me. They got married and had kids, but it didn't last and he went on to marry a third and even younger woman than you, when he was in his 40s. She left, posting about abuse, about 2 years into the relationship. I know none of it is my fault or responsibility. But if I could go back in time and warn them both, I would. Even if they didn't listen. I'm betting she's in her thirties, and she sees that you are in your early 20's, and she wishes some older version of herself could have warned the younger one.
My daughter just left a 7 year abusive relationship. The ex-gf tried reaching out to my daughter to warn her. Ex kept saying the ex-gf was crazy, couldn't take their relationship was really over, etc. Unbeknownst to us, her parents, she realized how true the ex-gf's warnings turned out. Took her years to get out. It started out very small, easily explained away until it wasn't. It's been almost a year since she ran. She ended up with a restraining order because he just won't quit harassing her. Maybe, in a fit of whatever, he did hit her and would never repeat it. Maybe, he didn't and she is just making trouble. He needs to sit down and discuss your converns. This is tough. My daughter worries for the next girl too. Had we known, there would have been police reports filed. The ex-gf has since shared many such reports with our daughter and they have had conversations. I feel for you. Please take care of yourself.
"He told me they were married really young..." Then he starts dating a 21 year old while he is 29.
Divorce decrees often mention nothing of abuse. My ex abused me for years and when I was talking with my lawyer, she said because we lived in a no-fault divorce state, we couldn't really put anything about it in the court documents. I'm a little concerned about how your fiancé was a 29 year old pursuing a 21 year old. That's not a huge age difference, but in that age range, it should have a little analyzation of how he treats you. Yes, it is odd as to why she stays in contact. I would ask her directly. I would ask her what other things he did so you can compare for yourself if he's throwing red flags that you're just not seeing. Please read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. [Here's](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) a free digital version. You can also buy a paper or Kindle version. Read it and see if any of the warning signs exist in your relationship.
Getting angry and telling you to "think logically" is not good green flag behavior. Telling someone how to process information is controlling and something abusers do.
Does she strike you as a vindictive person because I’m leaning heavily on her doing you a favour.
I would think really hard. First of all abusive men tend to hide their abuse until they are married. That’s when it amps up. It also gets worse when their partner has a baby. So the fact he’s never hit you yet may mean nothing. Irreconcilable differences on the divorce decree also means nothing. They pretty much all say that. Secondly think about what happens when you disagree as a couple. Do you resolve conflict in a healthy way? If you don’t know, then you need to figure that out. A counsellor could help you. If you decide to proceed then Thirdly I would insist on pre marital counselling and I would ensure I had an exit plan including my own bank account. Finally if you think her last behaviour eg wishing him merry Xmas etc is not how an abused woman behaves then you’re wrong. This is how women in fear of their lives behave. She is placating him. A chat with your local women’s shelter about the best place to seek guidance would be a good idea
My ex husband was abusive. He never hit me but he damaged my house and hit my dog. I didn't put that on my divorce paperwork.
I’ve been the woman warning another about my ex husband. She didn’t listen told me I was full of shit and he was the gentlest man ever….about 6 years later she contacted me saying he had hurt her and wanted my help. I told her I had already done all I could for her by trying to tell her what he was. It’s a hard thing to do to tell someone that someone they think loves them is a monster, I would be inclined to believe e her. Also the wording of “irreconcilable differences” means nothing my ex and I divorced cause he beat me and stole money from me our divorce was labeled as “irreconcilable differences” it wasn’t “amicable” and asserts we’re divided per the court and once entered non-negotiable.
So he bullied you into keeping quiet about something that concerned you... thats not a very good sign If I were you, I'd go in his phone on the sly and see what he's been texting her since she told you. I bet it'll tell you a lot about who he is.
I think she’s telling the truth and he’s lying.
100% he was abusive and he's mad that his new partner found out. He was almost 30 and went for a 21 year old for a reason. The manipulation is easier when you don't have as much life experience to go off of. OP is already having doubts even though it's obvious the ex is telling the truth. OP could ask any mutual friends or family and easily confirm things.
I’m sure when your fiancé married his ex, she sure wasn’t thinking “one day he’s going to hit me”. There’s typically not a “divorced due to domestic violence” reason on the decree, it’s usually “irreconcilable differences”. Which is exactly what happened- he hit her and she refused to be married anymore. She has warned you, told you what happened to her. You can choose to use the information any way you want.
As someone who didn’t get my ex arrested or put anything on his permanent record even though I more than likely could have, she might have just filed for irreconcilable differences because she was afraid of him retaliating… It’s statistically proven that leaving is the MOST dangerous time for a victim of DV. I rolled over in defeat too. 🤷🏻♀️ Personally, I’d meet up with her in person.
I used to be the Ex and reached out to the new girlfriend to warn about the guy. He was mentally abusive and if I had been living closer to him I wouldn't put it past him that he also would have hit me. Please take this warning seriously. Be careful and listen closely to what he says and how he does it, don't brush it off and listen to your gut.
I’d always believe the ex. I’ve worked in DV field for 10+ years.
Honey. I wish his ex wife would’ve contacted me. She did you a huge favor, but when I was 24 I would have been so confident I could “fix” him and was so in love it wouldn’t have mattered. This is hard and I get it. Take some time to think about this more at the very least
Your fiance's reaction isn't very empathetic, the fact you felt the need to lie to him isn't a good sign too. I do feel like what she said could be the truth and i would advise to proceed with caution. Take your time and maybe get someone who can confirm this. I have witnessed this a lot of times and leaving after marriage becomes difficult and blurred for survivors of DV
It is common for abusers to go after younger women. The abuse often does not start until they have you trapped in marriage. Ex-wife sought you out in a private, respectable manner, and gave you physical evidence. This man is an abuser. Read the book in this link, and I bet anything a few things stand out to you of things your fiancé is already doing to you. https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I know nothing, but having the divorce stated as "irreconcilable differences" is not proof of anything. There are very very many reasons why that would be the reason stated, and "abuse" is never going to be the reason. Him reacting to this with anger and not concern for you is not a good look on him. Him minimizing your concerns and telling you coldly to 'think logically' is not helping his argument. You ARE thinking logically, and he is thinking with anger and coldness.
They married really young and things just didn't work out. So he went and found a 21 year old? Seems fishy. The way you wrote this also makes it seem like he got super defensive about it. Idk maybe I'm reading too much into it. Did his ex know you've been dating? Has she tried to reach him in the past? If they've been in contact, then this might be bad news. If she knew he was dating you, why wouldn't she immediately contact you? Your long post left a lot of questions unanswered and did not provide enough info. My advice is either learn as much as you can about your situation and the ex. Make a decision. Can't give you advice beyond that as you haven't provided a lot of information beyond his ex told you he hit her.
He is in his 30s and dating a 24 year old for this exact reason. A woman closer to his age would be more likely to leave after being given this information because she has more life experience to know another woman wouldn’t make this sort of thing up. His ex wife wouldn’t photoshop bruises to keep you from marrying him. Tell your friends exactly what happened, tell your parents too, do not go to him about it. Of course he’s going to say she’s lying. Do not marry this man. His mask will slip once you become his wife. You were given a gift many women aren’t. She’s right, please use it accordingly.
Exactly. Like, who really has the time to be photoshopping things to send to an ex husband's new fiance? Ain't no one doing all that!! She's trying to make sure no one else goes through what she went through. She likely didn't reach out sooner because she assumed the relationship wouldn't last and her ex would show his true colors before all this.
I'm so sorry, OP. There's a very real possibility that the ex is telling the truth. I recommend you contact her again, in person if you're able, and ask for additional info. Can anyone confirm her story? DO NOT let him know you're meeting her. I also recommend that you tell him that you want to pause the wedding. Tell him it's moving too fast, you're overwhelmed, you just want a few months to not think about or plan the wedding. And watch his reaction very carefully. Do this in a public space where you can get away quickly or get help quickly. Try to have a trusted friend or family member nearby. If you live together, get out. If you share finances, separate them immediately. Watch him for any changes in behavior. He suddenly can't wait to marry you and wants to elope tonight? Red flag. Love bombs you? Red flag. Won't respect your decision to pause the wedding? Red flag. If you decide to move forward and marry him, please do not get pregnant immediately. Please keep your job. Please put money aside in a secret account that you tell NO ONE about in case you need to leave. Please keep your important documents safe. And do not let him isolate you from your friends and family. Good luck, OP
Did he state, "I did not hit her", or did he state "I would never do something like that."?
From his reaction.. I believe her She has nothing to gain from lying to you.
The divorce papers are not proof of his innocence. It’s the easiest and cheapest divorce to get, and you can do it in a lot of states without an attorney. A lot of people go that route if they just want the marriage over as quickly and calmly as possible. Getting away is more important than getting stuff. While there are people who will stoop low enough to fake being abused, it isn’t very common. The non-contested divorce makes me think there is truth to her story. If she made it up to hurt him, she most likely would have gone for blood in court too. If you want the truth, you would need to speak to people who were their mutual friends around the time they split. But if you go digging in that direction, you run the risk of it getting back to him. I would reach back out to the ex and ask questions. Why were they fighting? What happened? Did she call the police? That kind of thing. Get her whole story. Look for holes in the story. Then do the same with him. Get his full story of why they split and how. The truth will come out.
You don't believe him or you wouldn't be here. Trust your instincts.
Maybe ask an attorney in your area but usually if it is a short term divorce with no kids, they don’t bother getting into abuse stories at court. Irreconcilable differences is a blanket statement for literally anything. That is NOT enough to justify his explanation. The age gap. The reaction and weird argument is giving me red flags. Maybe see if you can corroborate with friends or family. If the story doesn’t line up, you have to trust your gut and leave.
He seriously told you to “think logically?” and then responded with anger and defensiveness? No. That is so condescending, and the way he’s reacting to this is very concerning. Take heed.
His defensiveness and anger is a huge red flag OP. Believe her.
His response is very frightening. I would listen to her. It’s not normal to become angry at something that isn’t true. A normal reaction to someone accusing you is either a simple straight answer, or genuine curiosity to your feelings about it, and responding with comfort. Anger is a tool men use to control you. You have already put your own gut instinct on ice and discarded thoughts that may not align with your current experience. This is by his design, and he will continue to calm you crazy while he manipulates the situation. My ex husband had an ex who warned me. I didn’t listen and he was an angel from heaven. Until he pushed me down the stairs when I was pregnant. I left shortly after. A few years after that, I found out he ☠️. a girl he dated after me with his bare hands. Seriously. He’s in jail for life. I would have warned her if I could. Listen to her and just go. This is not a normal response, and it sounds 100% true to me, bc I lived it.
Take it from someone who was warned, and ignored that warning. Was a victim. Then warned the next two girls, they also ignored that. While that last one having THREE women warning her about him, it didn't do anything and she also fell victim. Please. Some people will be crazy and make things up, but majority of these situations is real people saying real things that are hard to talk about
Ooh yea red flag. The age gap is bad, he absolutely should not have started dating a 21yo at 29 major fkn ick. Screams of adult women won't take my shit so I'll get a younger one who's easier to manipulate. At almost 30 I met my partner who was 25 and that was concerning to me, any younger was 100% off the table. The anger is another warning sign, plus, Think Logically, is majorly condescending and manipulative. He's calling you stupid for voicing your concerns. Hun please take heed of all the other comments here, I guarantee there are things you're missing. Things you don't even realise are wrong in relationships because you've been taught by someone older, more experienced and frankly manipulative. Look up the warning signs of bad age gap relationships and have a really good think about whether this man is actually good for you.
OP! While you're 'thinking logically' (that statement alone gives me the ick; so patronising and reductive) please look up 'See what you made me do' by Jess Hill. Please stay safe. There's a reason people are uncomfortable with age gap relationships: because of the power dynamic and differences in life experience. I'm not patronising you, but the life experience of a 24 year old is vastly different to the experience of a divorced 32 year old.
I swear half of these posts have huge age differences. Yeah take the warning and make sure you keep that in mind. Abusers are really good at hiding it until they've got ya in a place they feel safe to start really digging in. If he did hit her, he's probably learned from the same experience and will be more careful not to give you an out.
Filing for irreconcilable differences definitely doesn’t mean he’s not a wife beater, her not pressing charges also definitely doesn’t mean he’s not a wife beater. She has nothing to gain by telling you.
Well in this cases being 3 years around if nothing ever happened I tend to believe that while they did was horrible they could change. But since he opted for getting angry and stating that the ex wife is a liar, you better believe the ex wife. Some guys wait for marriage or even pregnancy to show their true self.
Do not allow yourself to come out the fool after being granted the gift of a warning.
You're young, he met you even younger, 21 years, sadly younger people are easier to manipulate. I don0t doubt some relationships with age gaps can be healthy exists but when they persuade people in their early 20's for me is not a good sign. No one wants to believe our significant other or someone really close and love to us is capable of harming someone but sadly that's a reality for many people and denial just hurts more people. The way he reacted is concerning as many comments have pointed out, you're still young and think you're in a bubble filled with love and obviously don't want to doubt the man you've been with for the past years but abusers never show signs early. I understand your doubts of her reasons to try to contact you to let you know her experience, many do this with bad intentions, however, I don't think she's lying. Not every divorce paper specify violence if the victim feels its safer for them no to include it so “irreconcilable differences” is very commonly used for this. We can't tell you what to believe or to leave him, but we can tell you to be more vigilant on his behaviour and look for possible red flas, be careful because its your life and you're young.
You need to be very, very careful.
One day you're really going to regret not believing her. It would have taken a lot for her to come to you and tell you this
I can tell you precisely why she stays in mild, cordial contact with him: because it can be safer to keep your ex abuser sweet than any other option. As they went to high school together, they will be connected via other people eg old friends. She'll feel safer to keep him at arms length and not being angry with her than cutting him off cold, which is probably impossible because of that school history. I think you know this is true. She has no reason to lie to you. And most abusive marriages end in an irreconcilable differences divorce because abusers won't own up to what they've done. It absolutely does not indicate that bad behaviour was 50-50. His aggression when you asked him about this couple with his inference that you're illogical etc is very red flaggy.
“He told you to think logically” EVERYONE who has ever been abused will see that as gaslighting. EVERYONE who has ever been abused has WANTED to reach out to their abusers new partners to warn them but, were worried about this exact response. Talk to her!!! Ask when the abuse started cause dollars to donuts it was after they were legally married. First comes the happy love bombing stage, and as soon as you’re legally tied together or worse have kids, they stop hiding it because they know they have you hooked. I’d bet my last dollar that if you sit down and think REALLY hard, there’s some red flags you’ve missed. As somebody who has lived through DV, the second someone told me my partner abused them and had proof- that’s it I’m out/ as quickly and safely as possible. Please note though IF he is abusive the most dangerous times for victims is when they figure out it is abuse or when they try to leave so, just be careful regardless
My divorce was “irreconcilable differences” but my spouse was abusive. I would have put anything on that paper to get the divorce over with.
I remember when my exes ex told me that he was abusive to her and naive little ol me thought, he would never do that to me. After a year of being together the abuse started. As women I think it’s important to be honest and truthful with each other. But to also listen!
Any person who tells someone to think logically to get their own logic is usually wrong. You should have to say “think about it” if you’re telling the truth. Also please be careful and make sure he doesn’t contact his ex wife in a harsh manner. He might dm her privately and get upset at her for telling you…
I’ll just say I was warned in a previous relationship and I didn’t heed the warning. It did NOT go well and I so wish I had :(
He was angry at you for asking. That should tell you a lot. He wasn’t confused or embarrassed about an accusation. He got angry…not at the ex for saying it. At you, for asking for clarification.
Just because there’s no “proof” of it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Many times we don’t report for whatever reason. I never reported my ex and he almost killed me in front of my son. Reporting would’ve been very hard to go through, plus an endless battle, risking him doing something worse and on top of that, if he lost his job i wouldn’t have been able to have any help at all with ny son. I just dumped him and moved on with my life. But he tells everyone that listens to him a totally different story.
My divorce papers state "irreconcilable differences." His prisoner profile stated "attempted murder, assault level 2, and forcible confinement" Believe her. His anger towards the accusation is very telling, as is your fear of being honest and feeling the need to lie to his face to placate him. She gains nothing from telling you this, other than hoping to save someone from an equal or worse fate to her. ETA: I kept in contact with my abuser right up until his death, and I cried over the loss, too. Their continued contact doesn't lower believability.
Here’s the problem. That age difference, that’s a red flag. You were VERY young when you started dating. He wasn’t. Would you want to hang out with 18 year olds? No. You don’t have a lot in common. That’s what 29 year old has in common with a 21 year old. Troubling. Irreconcilable Difference is very typical for a divorce. That proves nothing. And that he’d show that to you as some sort of proof….troubling. Getting angry? Yes, that’s a worry. I’d think confusion, hurt and some anger, but being SUPER angry, troubling. Nail in the coffin? “Think logically.” You WERE thinking logically. You heard something troubling and asked about it. What’s illogical about that? I dunno. Don’t rush into anything and open your eyes to things that you may be ignoring.
You believe her. Why would she lie while trying to warn you? His anger tells you exactly that she’s telling the truth. Life is not a film. She can still have civil feelings towards someone who did that, many people do. Many people love people who did that. But he did that. And she thought you should know.
Ask her if there’s anyone else who knew about the abuse at the time that you could speak with. It’s likely she confided in someone at the time, or someone knew/heard what happened. A neighbor, one of his family members, a mutual friend of theirs, etc. Ideally there would be a police call on record that you could verify, but it sounds like that may not have happened in this case. As others have recommended, please read [Why does he do that? Author: Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf#page291) I don’t recommend it in this case, if there truly is a history of physical violence, but other women have had success identifying a high risk of future DV issues, pre-marriage, by saying “no” to innocuous requests when they would normally say yes/agree, to test their fiancé’s reaction to conflict.
Honestly with the limited info I'm leaning towards this did happen and he's very ashamed of it. Maybe he has changed. Young people can get aggressive and make life altering mistakes. It being labeled as irreconcilable differences doesn't mean he didn't hit her. Look at the picture more closely. Do YOU think it looks fake? The most damning though is that he got ANGRY at the accusation. Generally when u accuse someone of something false, the first response is confusion. If you come at someone really aggressively with an accusation I could possibly see where anger would be a response, but it sounds like u brought it up as a question more so than calling him a woman beater. Plenty of women have remained cordial with men who have physically attacked them unfortunately. I know a few. This doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Angry enough that you felt like you needed to stop talking about it. THIS IS A RED RED FLAG. He should have been willing to discuss this to your satisfaction even if it was completely made up.
He was very angry. Not surprised, hurt, feeling betrayed or anything else. Angry. If she was a nasty piece of work, why would she do just one thing to ruin his life now, instead of making a habit of it? I would proceed with the greatest caution.
My parents' divorce was also for "irreconcilable differences" because it was easier than "husband is physically and emotionally abusive towards wife and children, financially abusive towards wife, and a gambling addict." There are other people who were friends with them when this happened. Family and friends are powerful allies. Start asking questions.
Two ways of looking at this. She is either telling the truth and is warning you for your own good. Or She is jealous and making up lies to try and break you up. Without knowing this woman or your husband, nobody on this thread can tell which one it actually is. I would maybe suggest trying to investigate yourself. Ask the woman if you can meet her and gauge her reactions and her story and compare it to your fiances. Then make a decision. Its a tough one but all humans lie whether its men or women so I would investigate this one with an open mind and use your good sense and intuition to make a decision
I believe her.. if she wanted your man she could've kept him. Instead she's finding strange ways to find you to warn you...girl code... Take the warning with what you will but, don't say no one told you . Also his reaction will 100% answer your question. What's your gut telling you ? I believe her. Girl. Just sayin ..
Please read this https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf You may see a lot of things you’ve missed/ignored
Well, just from the facts as you lay them out here, I believe her. His reaction was weird and controlling on its own, the age gap, and what does she have to gain from lying to you, anyway?
I remember when my ex husband's ex called to warn me too. I got so mad, I thought she was jealous and lying. That's what my ex husband told me. But he went on to abuse me to the point of breaking bones and strangling me unconscious so I would say you need to heed that warning.