Run a screen clean. Leave a thin layer of resin in the vat, put some old supports in for easy removal. Expose the entire screen till the layer is cured. Pull the layer off with the supports and the fail will go with it. There are some good examples of this on YouTube.
Edit also make sure you have a screen protector.
I didnt think about that, Just ordered one, thanks!
I tried the using old supports thing and it didnt help at all, basically forces me to use the spatula
You can gently tap the other side of the fep as well, but exposing long enough so the old supports stick and lift that way is less risk of damaging the fep.
Watch this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210R3Hewkxk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210R3Hewkxk)
Avoid using the spatula, and use microfibre towels to clean the fep as the paper ones can scratch it. The more wear and fear on your fep the more you have to replace it and risk a spill.
Edit: Also wear gloves. Read the MSDS for the resin you are using.
Yes, but time is precious, removing 75 screws, popping out 75 holes in plastic, and tightening 75 screws in a criss-cross is a waste of time.
Knock on wood I'm up to 52 print hours without touching the FEP- I drain and filter the vat everytime between prints.
Once you drain the vat, using a gloved hand so as not to transfer any oils from your fingers, gently press up on the FDM from the bottom beneath the stuck, failed print. This should pop the prints loose.
For lots of little bits that might be stuck, have the vat filled just enough to fully cover the bottom, place an old support half on the print area and half off, then run an LED test at fully on for 5 or 10 seconds. That will flash cure all the resin against the FDM. Drain the vat, and use the support to pull the sheet of resin off the FDM.
I'd only use the second method a few times.
Don't ever scrape the FDM, even with plastic or paper towels. It will leave microscratches all over the surface, and cause more failures.
It sucks for sure, but that saves more resin that the vat clean option.
Also, if there are broken pieces of cured resin floating in the uncured stuff, the next time the build plate zeroes, it will crush those cured pieces against the FDM, damaging it or possibly breaking it or your screen.
Mine drives me crazy, ill be off 1 letter, early I tried to type Family, but put famly... it was recommending shit like Farming, Friendly, etc.
I was like WTF its 1 fucking letter lol
No, only if you have a failure or are changing resins should you need to drain the vat. If there is a failure, do the old support in the corner and vat clean thing, as it will pick up any loose crunchy bits in that big rectangle you will remove. You don’t necessarily need to empty the vat even then, although I do as I’m fumble fingered. If the cured resin does not want to come up, press lightly from underneath in that same corner and pull up gently on the support to remove the vacuum that is keeping it from being lifted.
Edit: unless there is a hole in your FEP in that picture, it should still be fine for printing. You may want to post some pics of your failures so we can see if anything jumps out at us that would cause it.
on my Prusa sl1 and saturn 2 i never clean in between prints unless a failure occured. I also leave the resin in the vat ,both have a cover on the vats. So i rarely clean them out. Sl1 only used 2 feps since i got it when released. Saturn 2 is still fairly new so first fep. Both i use the yellow spatula without force to mix the resin in vat.
I use gravity to do the most work. I haven't built a jig to hole the vat over my strainer, but that is definitely on my list of stuff to build.
Once the bulk is out, I use microfiber towels to wipe everything up. For standard resins use ISA to help thin out the resin and mop it up. Same with water for water rinsable resins.
Place the vat over a microfiber cloth so when you are wiping the FEP is supported.
I treat my GEP with PTFE lubricant as well. Wet a microfiber with the lubricant, wipe the FEP gently, and use a dry microfiber to wipe clean. Enough of the lubricant remains to help with releasing the resin.
Nothing about cleanup is quick. Thats the worst part of resin prints, but so worth it when you get a good print.
Sorry to get specific, it's for my own knowledge, but what do you do with those microfibre cloths after? I currently use paper towel and then expose to sunlight before binning them.
I cut apart the large cheap microfiber cloths, and use pieces instead of whole towels. I toss heavily spoiled or saturated cloths, but for lighter jobs I rinse them heavily outdoors and then run them through a laundry cycle.
The PTFE lubricant helps the resin in my vat run off the FEP quicker and cleaner, so there is less in the vat when it comes time to wipe it out.
WTF are you ppl talking about? Just pour out the resin from the vat back into your bottle through a strainer, then lightly push up with your finger on the fep from directly underneath the failed part and 95% of the time the stuff stuck to the fep peels loose.
Basiclaly what happened was a print failed, so I stopped the print, then cured the bottom (tank clean on Mars 3) and I used the spatula to get underneath it but it wouldn't budge at all so I had to use a little force to get under it. and i think it happened then.
I tried the whole use some bugger supports near a corner to get it to pull right up, didnt work at all.
Can I fix this? I ordered a replacement already but dont want to have to replace it all the time if I can help it.
any advice?
> used the spatula to get underneath
Don't use the spatula. A proper "tank clean" should leave a thick enough layer of exposed resin so that you push up the fep from the underside, get under the exposed resin, and peel it off like that
I haven't had much luck with it myself, but you can also puth some old supports in the vat before running the clean and use them as a handle
Just try and avoid using a spatula if you can
You can adjust how long you want to expose the tank clean feature. Depending on the resin this might take the preset amount of seconds or it could take a little longer. If the old supports in the corner are not sticking to the thin layer try exposing the screen for a little longer. The thin layer of resin needs to harden enough around the old support bottom to bond with it. Once it’s bonded together it’s very easy to l lift the entire sheet off.
Next time you do the screen clean function, take the vat off and gently press with your finger on the underside of the fep to get leverage to peel the layer off the fep.
Also, I've had some incredibly scuffed up fep sheets that print fine. If you deform it, then you're going to have issues, but even a ton of scratches and fog I was getting fine prints. You can get them to last a long time just by being careful with it.
Use a rubber spatula for mixing or cleaning it out, not a plastic one. Use shop towels instead of paper towels to clean the surfaces. When you have semi-failed prints, even tiny errors, there's a chance cured resin is floating in the vat. A good practice is to get a metal strainer, like for tea or coffee, and use it when pouring it back into the bottle. Also use it when pouring from the bottle into the vat just in case. Easy assurance to keep unwanted particles out, while also doubling as a quick way to help de-gas the resin after shaking it.
Also get a screen protector! Such a cheap investment in case of an accident. After a print, if you plan on printing right after, it's good practice to take off the vat and check the screen surface for any leaks. An ipad screen protector, matte, is what I've seen recommended a lot and it works perfectly for me. The matte finish is awesome, as it doesn't affect print quality but it's surface also makes it super easy to peel off cured resin in case you do have a leak, so sometimes you don't even have to change out the screen protector. Don't cut it to size, apply it with the screen on the printer and tape around the edges. Don't use thick electric tape, use that yellow clear tape, I forget what it's called but it's super thin. A few small bubbles is fine but try to get it apply it as cleanly as possibly.
Hope some of that advice helps!
Your FEP looks fine unless there are holes in it. You are likely having failures due to improper exposure settings or temperature issues.
If you can post photos or descriptions of the issues along with your printer type, resin type and settings, the group can help you.
the thing thats killing me tho is it was printing perfectly fine, then all of a sudden I cant get it to print. I have a Mars 3.
I have releveled it a dozen times, Tried 0.5, .6, .7 and .8 mm adjust (when it was printing perfectly it was at .6mm)
basically it prints all the supports perfectly fine until it gets to the actual model itself. At that point it acts like its too close to the bed or something and just pulls it off onto the FEP (I assume thats what the silicon membrane thing is called).
Im using the Elegoo water washable resin (cause its impossible to find IPA around here, and im aware it doesn't go down the drain) It was printing form it perfectly fine. but every since this happened I now have gone through almost 700ml of resin trying to adjust and fix it. Its driving me nuts, I dont know where to go form here. My only thing is maybe its the dings in that membrane catching the print and holding it maybe?
I've been printing for 9 years, but only with resin for 3 weeks.
Here is what I learned in that time;
Make sure resin is clean and well shaken before you print- seperation of the resin can cause color shifts and reduced reliability.
Make sure you test every batch of resin- use the validation matrix print. Like paint- there can be variations in viscosity and chemical makeup even with the same exact product.
Use the validation print to test build plate adhesion/burn-in exposure AFTER you validate plate leveling. You want to fight it off the plate a little- you don't want it to easily pop off, or resort to chiseling it off.
When removing a print, place the plate width-ways up on a flat, clean surface, push the print down, DO NOT USE THE LEVELER AS A PRY HANDLE.- if you do you will need to re-level it.
Auto orientation is worthless, do it manually and focus on keeping the "slices" small as possible and the most detailed/important parts facing away from buildplate.
Always use a raft if your model is not touching the buildplate- this gives your supports a firm foundation and a wide area for your model to stick to.
If printing large or very round models, use hollowing and drain holes.
Also- I use 3-4 fairly large supports on most larger models- this I have found increases success and stops support failure- you will get scarring, but in only a few spots, and you can usually hide them.
Lean towards over-exposure vs. under-exposure- an under-exposed support will "drop" a print!
Know some models are incredibly difficult to print- I have one STL that has 100% failure on every printer I've ever used.
There is such thing as bad resin- I have one bottle of clear green that will not cure no matter the exposure time, resulting in dropped prints and rubbery supports.
As for fep print fail removal- it sucks, I've used screen clean and just used a gloved hand to start one corner and peel.
I also killed 2 Feps by using a plastic spatula because I was in a BFH.
You could try creating tension by hand, instead of scraping it off. You just need to create enough of a lip that you can peel it out of there. If it's super stuck you could apply tension plus add a little alcohol to try to get it under the piece, which should dissolve the connection enough to get it out.
I'm really not sure, but some of that doesn't look like cured resin but more like torn plastic film...?
FEP sheets come with plastic film on both sides that needs to be removed before putting onto a vat. I once flaked and didn't realize I'd missed the film on one side and, after a couple of failed prints, it ended up looking a lot like that.
Business card is soft enough it shouldn’t scratch.
Or do a depth of cure test. Basically your platform and expose a single layer of the whole projector area. Much easier to remove that way.
This may not be the most popular opinion… but.. stop using water washable resin. It’s amazing how almost every post on here with constant printing problems is using water washable. The stuff is more difficult to print with, and its not as great of quality over all. It lulls people into a false sense of comfort that it’s somehow easier or safer, but neither is really true. Make 2 copies of a print (with the water washable) and wash one with water and the other with IPA - you’ll notice a difference.
It’s probably not the answer you want to hear, but, before you go and tweak further, replace your fep, etc, just TRY non water washable. If you still don’t want to, I’d also recommend taking 400 grit sandpaper to your build plate and rough it up a bit - especially with water washable, it will help it adhere (but its worth doing regardless)
first do the clean the screen/vat option, then I use a microfibre cloth on the side that touches the lcd screen. and just gently probe it until you hear the separation/peel sound, and keep doing it until you can get your finger nail under there. again do all of this very, very gently. has worked for me quite a number of times in my early learning curve lol
hope this helps!
When easy it is enoug to push a bit on the back of the fep and you can peel the failed prnt off. When harder you can do the same but with warm water as it will soften it. Only use a rounded spatula like the yellow ones you mostly get for free. I use that one frequentlu to mix the resin after some time.
Run a screen clean. Leave a thin layer of resin in the vat, put some old supports in for easy removal. Expose the entire screen till the layer is cured. Pull the layer off with the supports and the fail will go with it. There are some good examples of this on YouTube. Edit also make sure you have a screen protector.
I didnt think about that, Just ordered one, thanks! I tried the using old supports thing and it didnt help at all, basically forces me to use the spatula
You can gently tap the other side of the fep as well, but exposing long enough so the old supports stick and lift that way is less risk of damaging the fep. Watch this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210R3Hewkxk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210R3Hewkxk) Avoid using the spatula, and use microfibre towels to clean the fep as the paper ones can scratch it. The more wear and fear on your fep the more you have to replace it and risk a spill. Edit: Also wear gloves. Read the MSDS for the resin you are using.
When you say "the spatula", hopefully it's not some plastic thing, use a silicone one.
Brilliant
learn to use the tank clean option and stick old supports in the corner so it peals up easily.
In the end FEPs a cheap and consumable. It can't hurt to replace and try again.
Yes, but time is precious, removing 75 screws, popping out 75 holes in plastic, and tightening 75 screws in a criss-cross is a waste of time. Knock on wood I'm up to 52 print hours without touching the FEP- I drain and filter the vat everytime between prints.
i run a plastic spatula across the vat to feel for things, draining and filtering it every time seems ridiculous
You are better off with a gloved hand. Drain and fill takes 5 minutes, a fep takes what feels like an eternity.
Once you drain the vat, using a gloved hand so as not to transfer any oils from your fingers, gently press up on the FDM from the bottom beneath the stuck, failed print. This should pop the prints loose. For lots of little bits that might be stuck, have the vat filled just enough to fully cover the bottom, place an old support half on the print area and half off, then run an LED test at fully on for 5 or 10 seconds. That will flash cure all the resin against the FDM. Drain the vat, and use the support to pull the sheet of resin off the FDM. I'd only use the second method a few times. Don't ever scrape the FDM, even with plastic or paper towels. It will leave microscratches all over the surface, and cause more failures.
so I have to drain the whole tank every time? cause man thats a pain in the ass.
It sucks for sure, but that saves more resin that the vat clean option. Also, if there are broken pieces of cured resin floating in the uncured stuff, the next time the build plate zeroes, it will crush those cured pieces against the FDM, damaging it or possibly breaking it or your screen.
That's FEP, not FDM.
So it is. Autocorrect is not my friend.
Autocorrect is the best/worst frienemy everyone has.
Mine drives me crazy, ill be off 1 letter, early I tried to type Family, but put famly... it was recommending shit like Farming, Friendly, etc. I was like WTF its 1 fucking letter lol
No, only if you have a failure or are changing resins should you need to drain the vat. If there is a failure, do the old support in the corner and vat clean thing, as it will pick up any loose crunchy bits in that big rectangle you will remove. You don’t necessarily need to empty the vat even then, although I do as I’m fumble fingered. If the cured resin does not want to come up, press lightly from underneath in that same corner and pull up gently on the support to remove the vacuum that is keeping it from being lifted. Edit: unless there is a hole in your FEP in that picture, it should still be fine for printing. You may want to post some pics of your failures so we can see if anything jumps out at us that would cause it.
on my Prusa sl1 and saturn 2 i never clean in between prints unless a failure occured. I also leave the resin in the vat ,both have a cover on the vats. So i rarely clean them out. Sl1 only used 2 feps since i got it when released. Saturn 2 is still fairly new so first fep. Both i use the yellow spatula without force to mix the resin in vat.
How on earth do you clean your FEP/vat without using scraper or paper towels?
I use gravity to do the most work. I haven't built a jig to hole the vat over my strainer, but that is definitely on my list of stuff to build. Once the bulk is out, I use microfiber towels to wipe everything up. For standard resins use ISA to help thin out the resin and mop it up. Same with water for water rinsable resins. Place the vat over a microfiber cloth so when you are wiping the FEP is supported. I treat my GEP with PTFE lubricant as well. Wet a microfiber with the lubricant, wipe the FEP gently, and use a dry microfiber to wipe clean. Enough of the lubricant remains to help with releasing the resin. Nothing about cleanup is quick. Thats the worst part of resin prints, but so worth it when you get a good print.
Sorry to get specific, it's for my own knowledge, but what do you do with those microfibre cloths after? I currently use paper towel and then expose to sunlight before binning them.
I cut apart the large cheap microfiber cloths, and use pieces instead of whole towels. I toss heavily spoiled or saturated cloths, but for lighter jobs I rinse them heavily outdoors and then run them through a laundry cycle. The PTFE lubricant helps the resin in my vat run off the FEP quicker and cleaner, so there is less in the vat when it comes time to wipe it out.
Thank you for the details, these are the nitty gritty bits they don't always show you in videos.
No worries. Happy to be helpful.
WTF are you ppl talking about? Just pour out the resin from the vat back into your bottle through a strainer, then lightly push up with your finger on the fep from directly underneath the failed part and 95% of the time the stuff stuck to the fep peels loose.
Basiclaly what happened was a print failed, so I stopped the print, then cured the bottom (tank clean on Mars 3) and I used the spatula to get underneath it but it wouldn't budge at all so I had to use a little force to get under it. and i think it happened then. I tried the whole use some bugger supports near a corner to get it to pull right up, didnt work at all. Can I fix this? I ordered a replacement already but dont want to have to replace it all the time if I can help it. any advice?
> used the spatula to get underneath Don't use the spatula. A proper "tank clean" should leave a thick enough layer of exposed resin so that you push up the fep from the underside, get under the exposed resin, and peel it off like that I haven't had much luck with it myself, but you can also puth some old supports in the vat before running the clean and use them as a handle Just try and avoid using a spatula if you can
I also havent had luck with the supports in the corners but, but will try the pressing on the underside
You can adjust how long you want to expose the tank clean feature. Depending on the resin this might take the preset amount of seconds or it could take a little longer. If the old supports in the corner are not sticking to the thin layer try exposing the screen for a little longer. The thin layer of resin needs to harden enough around the old support bottom to bond with it. Once it’s bonded together it’s very easy to l lift the entire sheet off.
Next time you do the screen clean function, take the vat off and gently press with your finger on the underside of the fep to get leverage to peel the layer off the fep. Also, I've had some incredibly scuffed up fep sheets that print fine. If you deform it, then you're going to have issues, but even a ton of scratches and fog I was getting fine prints. You can get them to last a long time just by being careful with it. Use a rubber spatula for mixing or cleaning it out, not a plastic one. Use shop towels instead of paper towels to clean the surfaces. When you have semi-failed prints, even tiny errors, there's a chance cured resin is floating in the vat. A good practice is to get a metal strainer, like for tea or coffee, and use it when pouring it back into the bottle. Also use it when pouring from the bottle into the vat just in case. Easy assurance to keep unwanted particles out, while also doubling as a quick way to help de-gas the resin after shaking it. Also get a screen protector! Such a cheap investment in case of an accident. After a print, if you plan on printing right after, it's good practice to take off the vat and check the screen surface for any leaks. An ipad screen protector, matte, is what I've seen recommended a lot and it works perfectly for me. The matte finish is awesome, as it doesn't affect print quality but it's surface also makes it super easy to peel off cured resin in case you do have a leak, so sometimes you don't even have to change out the screen protector. Don't cut it to size, apply it with the screen on the printer and tape around the edges. Don't use thick electric tape, use that yellow clear tape, I forget what it's called but it's super thin. A few small bubbles is fine but try to get it apply it as cleanly as possibly. Hope some of that advice helps!
Your FEP looks fine unless there are holes in it. You are likely having failures due to improper exposure settings or temperature issues. If you can post photos or descriptions of the issues along with your printer type, resin type and settings, the group can help you.
the thing thats killing me tho is it was printing perfectly fine, then all of a sudden I cant get it to print. I have a Mars 3. I have releveled it a dozen times, Tried 0.5, .6, .7 and .8 mm adjust (when it was printing perfectly it was at .6mm) basically it prints all the supports perfectly fine until it gets to the actual model itself. At that point it acts like its too close to the bed or something and just pulls it off onto the FEP (I assume thats what the silicon membrane thing is called). Im using the Elegoo water washable resin (cause its impossible to find IPA around here, and im aware it doesn't go down the drain) It was printing form it perfectly fine. but every since this happened I now have gone through almost 700ml of resin trying to adjust and fix it. Its driving me nuts, I dont know where to go form here. My only thing is maybe its the dings in that membrane catching the print and holding it maybe?
I've been printing for 9 years, but only with resin for 3 weeks. Here is what I learned in that time; Make sure resin is clean and well shaken before you print- seperation of the resin can cause color shifts and reduced reliability. Make sure you test every batch of resin- use the validation matrix print. Like paint- there can be variations in viscosity and chemical makeup even with the same exact product. Use the validation print to test build plate adhesion/burn-in exposure AFTER you validate plate leveling. You want to fight it off the plate a little- you don't want it to easily pop off, or resort to chiseling it off. When removing a print, place the plate width-ways up on a flat, clean surface, push the print down, DO NOT USE THE LEVELER AS A PRY HANDLE.- if you do you will need to re-level it. Auto orientation is worthless, do it manually and focus on keeping the "slices" small as possible and the most detailed/important parts facing away from buildplate. Always use a raft if your model is not touching the buildplate- this gives your supports a firm foundation and a wide area for your model to stick to. If printing large or very round models, use hollowing and drain holes. Also- I use 3-4 fairly large supports on most larger models- this I have found increases success and stops support failure- you will get scarring, but in only a few spots, and you can usually hide them. Lean towards over-exposure vs. under-exposure- an under-exposed support will "drop" a print! Know some models are incredibly difficult to print- I have one STL that has 100% failure on every printer I've ever used. There is such thing as bad resin- I have one bottle of clear green that will not cure no matter the exposure time, resulting in dropped prints and rubbery supports. As for fep print fail removal- it sucks, I've used screen clean and just used a gloved hand to start one corner and peel. I also killed 2 Feps by using a plastic spatula because I was in a BFH.
You could try creating tension by hand, instead of scraping it off. You just need to create enough of a lip that you can peel it out of there. If it's super stuck you could apply tension plus add a little alcohol to try to get it under the piece, which should dissolve the connection enough to get it out.
I'm really not sure, but some of that doesn't look like cured resin but more like torn plastic film...? FEP sheets come with plastic film on both sides that needs to be removed before putting onto a vat. I once flaked and didn't realize I'd missed the film on one side and, after a couple of failed prints, it ended up looking a lot like that.
Business card is soft enough it shouldn’t scratch. Or do a depth of cure test. Basically your platform and expose a single layer of the whole projector area. Much easier to remove that way.
This may not be the most popular opinion… but.. stop using water washable resin. It’s amazing how almost every post on here with constant printing problems is using water washable. The stuff is more difficult to print with, and its not as great of quality over all. It lulls people into a false sense of comfort that it’s somehow easier or safer, but neither is really true. Make 2 copies of a print (with the water washable) and wash one with water and the other with IPA - you’ll notice a difference. It’s probably not the answer you want to hear, but, before you go and tweak further, replace your fep, etc, just TRY non water washable. If you still don’t want to, I’d also recommend taking 400 grit sandpaper to your build plate and rough it up a bit - especially with water washable, it will help it adhere (but its worth doing regardless)
the problem is getting IPA in my area is insanely hard on top of that the smell of IPA bothers my wife
first do the clean the screen/vat option, then I use a microfibre cloth on the side that touches the lcd screen. and just gently probe it until you hear the separation/peel sound, and keep doing it until you can get your finger nail under there. again do all of this very, very gently. has worked for me quite a number of times in my early learning curve lol hope this helps!
When easy it is enoug to push a bit on the back of the fep and you can peel the failed prnt off. When harder you can do the same but with warm water as it will soften it. Only use a rounded spatula like the yellow ones you mostly get for free. I use that one frequentlu to mix the resin after some time.