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Yea like to let this sink in italy had never been shut playing against ireland before
That's pretty shocking because even in the miserable run of 36 straight losses italy managed while losing to ireland in six nations
2015 26-3
2016 58-15
2017 63- 10
2018 56- 19
2019 26-16
2020 50-17
2021 48-10
2022 57-6
2023 34-20
Point is they always managed at least 1 score and usually got at least 1 try but this was just complete domination and there lucky because it was very clear ireland took their foot off the gas one they got the bonus point
Anyone want to chip in on a GoFundMe to send Donal Lenihan to the Instituto Italiano to learn how to say 'Capuozzo' instead of 'Capoootzo'?
Funny thing is, he got it right once, and then reverted. Is he winding us all up?
Only if we can send the Italian commentators on Sky to English classes to learn how to say Farrell instead of Far- El.They make him sound like he's from Krypton.Also they keep calling O'Mahoney O'MaHOney.
JGP has a WC cycle in him yet I’d say and Casey is being primed to take over in the long term. Blade is kinda caught in the middle of the two with only two caps to his name.
Yeah certainly wouldn't write JGP off with the form he's in now but speed is his biggest asset and that's usually the first thing to go with age. But yeah I think if Doak pushes on Blade will unfortunately be stuck with the "best of the rest" couple of caps.
Although his speed is a great asset, his game sense is underrated. He’s able to turn up in position for the offload and is able to make a great defensive read which Casey doesn’t have yet, he’s also a nimble little fucker
For sure, was only the Scotland game at the world cup where his pace completely blew me away.
And on the game sense yeah it's also so impressive with the way we're playing. He knows the system so well that he doesn't even have to think about what he's doing or look up to see where players are, it's all almost on instinct. Think that's the biggest thing separating him from Casey (and all the other scrumhalves not in the squad) atm.
JGP has a superior awareness and running game than Casey no doubt, but Casey has a superb pass, argubably a better passer. They're both relatively small and light. Both feeding off each other at the moment, we are blessed to have them and Murray.
Yeah, a lot of the negativity is strange when we have two top class options in JGP and Murray (whatever about Munster form he always shows up in green) with Casey having a great game yesterday to show he'll be pushing them over the next while.
I know people want Blade to get a chance but I'm almost positive if he did get one the criticism would switch to him fairly quick if he wasn't JGP level from the start.
Job done, Wales next.
I’m glad to see the rotated-in players getting some time. For not having any players in the 23 v France, I would honestly keep the Ulster men and also start Timoney. Maybe Casey is better suited to cameo off the bench, and I think Frawley had an injury - otherwise I’d like to see the 6/2 split again with him. Wasn’t too convinced by Larmour, but he covers some key positions.
Didn't bother watching this one cos I'd work to catch up on.
Despite the flair, I'm always rooting for Italy to pull off an upset but I just knew there was no way it was gonna happen today, so I didn't see the point in tuning in anyway.
I know "You never know" and all that, but still...we all knew.
EDIT: Oh sorry, I thought it ended up 36-0, is that wrong? Did Italy actually win? Was it even close? No? Well then
You're being downvoted to oblivion because you sound like a smart-arse gobshite. The kind you bump into at a pub where everyone is watching the game and they turn around and say "Oh, is there a football game on today? I just came down for a quick G&T"...
If you're too cool or too busy to watch the game (despite telling us you're rooting for the opposition team), then don't watch it. Literally no one cares. But hopping on here and exclaiming you were too busy or too cool is comical. It doesn't make you look or sound edgy or informed or anything else but an insufferable boor.
Get a grip.
No doubt you'll call this a "smartarse" response but there's no nice way of putting it, it's amazing how you and almost everyone else here are so confidently incorrect after somehow misreading something so simple.
> If you're too cool
Thanks, but that's in your head, nobody said that.
> or too busy
There you go! So you *can* read (just about)
> (despite telling us you're rooting for the opposition team)
Lol what's that got to do with anything? Don't you have any sympathy for the underdog? The point was they weren't going to pull off an upset. So it proved.
> Literally no one cares.
And yet here you are, commenting.
> But hopping on here and exclaiming you were too busy
Missing or not understanding a very simple point, again. Amazing.
> or too cool
I'm so flattered, but again, that's in your head. Nobody said this.
> It doesn't make you look or sound edgy or informed or anything else
Once again, reading that into it borders on illiteracy. Nobody said or implied any of this.
> Get a grip.
Likewise. If you're far too cool to care what I think (or read or understand it), there's not much point in being a prick about it, is there?
The guy took some time out of his extremely busy schedule of watching Italy games that are foregone conclusions to pretend not to understand Reddit comments for updoots, we should all be very grateful.
Yeah I don’t see the big deal at all ? If anything it’s probably fairly relatable? If I was any busier I probably wouldn’t have been too pushed to tune in either because it’s “just Italy” whereas I made sure I’d time for the 5 other matches that were played so far
Well he is wrong, unless the 36-0 scoreline I've seen was wrong? Did Italy actually win? Was it even close? No? Then I don't see what's so difficult to understand about my comment. It's really not very complicated.
It’s not difficult to understand your comment. Just difficult to understand why you bothered making it seeing as it said exactly nothing. It’s like me going on r/physics and saying I know nothing about physics
I mean clearly it was extremely difficult to understand, since you're still managing not to.
I genuinely don't know how to make it any clearer, and someone else has already explained it, but the point was that watching the game felt pointless because it was a foregone conclusion and didn't seem worth the time.
And so it proved (unless the 36-0 scoreline was a false flag from the Pentagon or something.)
There. Simple as that.
Ok……what everyone is perplexed at is your need to inform us that you weren’t bothered watching it. I couldn’t think of a piece of information less interesting than that. On a thread where everyone is talking about a specific event, your non-interest in it is of no interest to anyone.
And yet here you are, still commenting despite having no interest? Reddit is so odd.
The actual point of my extremely innocuous comment was that the game felt pointless to watch because it was never going to have any other outcome, but the first idiot to reply pretended to think I was saying something else which led to everyone else piling on. Lemmings gonna lemming.
Yeah, I’m merely pointing out the pointlessness of your comment and subsequent defence of those comments. Much like you are still commenting despite supposedly not commenting. It’s Reddit, we’re all just wasting our time.
Simply perplexed at the idea that someone would supposedly be a fan but not watch because they only care when it’s gonna be a close game but then comment for the world to see that they didn’t watch and then get upset at others asking why the fuck they thought anyone would give a fuck that they didn’t watch. Get over yourself dude.
The only other teams they match up well with are really just Georgia, Japan, and the Pacific island teams. Any other team nearby in Europe is generally either a very tough 6 Nations fixture or a cakewalk against teams outside it. Spain and Portugal have shown promise lately. Romania has declined. I hear mentions of Belgium, but I dunno.
Italy is basically the gatekeeper of tier 1. They beat fairly convincingly any team not in there, but are underdogs against any T1 squad that’s not Japan or Fidji…
the teams in the six nations make italy out to be a “bad” team which is just not true. Italy are good but their playing against teams like ireland who are no.2 in the world they don’t have a chance. Italy might need to look into taking a step back and working more even if it’s just to beat wales and not get the wooden spoon
They’re on the wrong side of the world. A six nations with Italy, Japan, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, and maybe Argentina would be pretty competitive. Argentina and Fiji favourites, but not playing in a completely different league to the rest.
This is what annoys me when people start with drop them for whoever has just won a game from tier 2. Italy beat those guys. They probably do better than the other teams would do against any of the other 5 nations.
The question is what can the other nations do with 24 years of money and exposure that the 6 nations provide? Italy are (deservedly) in a very privileged position compared to the others.
No better than Italy have done since Italy came into the 6N because they’d beaten several of the 5N teams during the previous seasons. When have any of the others beaten a tier 1m team?
You can't really say "no better than Italy". Georgia has only gotten serious investment since 07 and have already beaten Italy away from home. Portugal had a much, much better showing at the world cup than Italy despite no professional domestic setup. The money involved in the 6 nations would completely transform any tier 2 setup.
Georgia beat Wales in 2022 autumn series when Wales were arguably at the lowest they'd ever been as a union, taking it on the chin from Italy and Georgia in the same calendar year.
That it's a memorable, banner year for both Italy and Georgia to beat Wales while they were at their perigee should indicate how big the gap normally is between original rugby nations and the rest of the world.
Good point. And yes as you and someone else said. The issue isn’t that Italy aren’t doing well and others are. It’s that the gap to the top tier for any of those guys is huge.
I don't know enough about Georgia etc to know if this is true but apparently all the talk about replacing them with other European teams wouldn't work since those teams aren't even on Italy's level, let alone the other 5.
So like you say they don't suck but they really look like it by the standards of this competition, but especially against a team as excellent as Ireland are right now.
This is nonsense talk, seeing as last time Italy played Georgia, Georgia won.
All the other European teams have progressed and improved more than Italy in the same timeframe, without access to the exposure, experience and finances of an annual tournament with Tier 1 nations
Portugal have also progressed brilliantly in the last 20 years.
The bottom line is Italy have done fuck all with the great platform and opportunity they have. Someone else should get the chance. We want the game to grow ffs
Portugal just got beat by Belgium, they don't have any professional club system either. Your lack of rugby knowledge is starting to show and that's usually a sign to just stop flapping your gums pal.
Actively advocating to kick out a country with 2 professional clubs and replace them with a country that's categorically not up to the same standard and has no professional clubs hardly any fans and few professional players is "growing the game?"
Edit: it would be sensible to offer more funding for the tier two unions with the proviso that if they can meet a certain standard they could join the competition AS WELL instead of kicking a team out arbitrarily.
"The bottom line is Italy have done fuck all with the great platform and opportunity they have. Someone else should get the chance. We want the game to grow ffs"
So what does that mean?
Portugal have progressed to Georgias level. And Georgia aren't anywhere close to being 6 nations level. The Italian win they had was 2 years ago in a once off game when Italywere poor even by their own standards. They have since failed to beat Portugal and struggled with the likes of Germany.
Its just idiocy to think you can throw them into a 6 week top tier competition. In place of a team that regularly competes above their level with two professional teams competing well in the URC.
Good thing I’m not proposing that then. I’d say two 6 team conferences, winner of each playing the other in a Championship game. Conferences drawn off world rankings in a snake format, then done off the previous years results going forward.
Means a mix of tier 1 and tier 2 competition for everyone, without inflating the length of the tournament. And it grows the game.
I’ve said so many times, yes Italy are better than Georgia (the consensus next team along). But Georgia would be better than Italy if they had the same opportunity.
I want to grow the game
2 groups of 6 based off current rankings then would have ireland, England, Wales plus 3 t2 teams? Other group France, Scotland, Italy plus 3 t2?
So taking 3 of the biggest income games away from the unions and replacing them with tier 2 fixtures? That won't grow the game it will just hamstring the current 6 nations teams.
Exactly yeah. Ireland (for example) would have 2 games against existing t1, and 3 games against developing. Which also means the developing teams play against big opposition as well as each other. More regularly.
And your concern about the big income games is exactly why the game isn’t growing. Fans would go to them. Real ones would anyway
righttttt they don’t suck but to them they do it’s like putting a baby against a man, the baby isn’t going to win but the man will but that same baby can beat and hammer other babies ( weird analogy ) but you couldn’t replace italy unless with a team out of europe (impossible bc it’s to decide the best team in europe)
This is nonsense talk, seeing as last time Italy played Georgia, Georgia won.
All the other European teams have progressed and improved more than Italy in the same timeframe, without access to the exposure, experience and finances of an annual tournament with Tier 1 nations
But that’s not the normal result between them. One win doesn’t suddenly make Georgia better. Do a play off between them and I’d be certain we wouldn’t see Georgia in the 6N.
Based on what? we only played italy 4 times in 20 years, I seriously don't give a fuck about 6N, especially since it's clearly not going to happen anyway, have also absolutely nothing against Italy and usually cheer for them but where does that glorious take that Italy is clearly better than Georgia comes from? based on what metric are they clearly better?
Georgia won the most recent game, but lost the 4 beforehand. However Georgias win is more recent that italys last win in the 6n.
The bottom line is yes, Italy are maybe the better team at the moment. But if Georgia got the same opportunity as Italy, I gaurantee they wouldn’t be for long
Wholeheartedly agree, though I am biased as I lived in Georgia for a while. Italy were given a special opportunity but have not proven to be special. I don't mean to disrespect Italy as a sporting nation (I also watch football and cycling and the Italians need no charity there), but something different needs to be done here. I can say first-hand that the entire country of Georgia would get behind their team, more-so than the Italians who, let's be honest, by majority have little more than a passing interest in rugby.
This experiment with Italy has been running for 24 years and day 9,000 looks a bit similar to day 1. Italy would benefit from some more meaningful games against teams like Georgia and possibly Romania/Spain/Portugal (given a few years development for those countries, perhaps), the Six Nations would benefit from a promotion/relegation system, and it's a golden opportunity to grow the sport beyond the usual tier 1 countries, which is desperately needed. Love seeing Ireland win, but would love more to see them win in an environment where more than a few teams have a shot.
Surprised we’re back to having these conversations so quickly after a World Cup that was so disastrous for Georgia. They’re were supposed to prove to everyone how competitive they were on the big stage and they flopped badly.
Georgia talk a great game but the evidence for them to get a chance in the 6N is incredibly thin.
"Incredibly thin" is a bit unfair, don't you think? They won the Rugby Europe International Championships in 2023, winning all of their games (including the final against Portugal) by 24+ points, and finished the competition with a points difference of 225-41. They have won every tournament bar 2 since 2006. Italy only won that tournament once before they were allowed into the 6N. The only recent game Georgia played against Italy, Georgia won by more than a try. If they are excluded from the 6N, I'm not sure how else they are supposed to develop. They don't exactly have money to burn over there, they can't maintain a professional rugby setup for a few World Cup games every 4 years.
> they can't maintain a professional rugby setup for a few World Cup games every 4 years
A professional league is an end in itself, it's not all about their world cup prospects. They should maintain a professional league because rugby is fun and people in Georgia would like to see some high quality games - like any other pro league for any sport in the world.
The REC is irrelevant to this discussion. Although it is improving it is obviously not at a competitive enough standard to tell us much about whether a team can be competitive in the 6N.
Italy won multiple games against all the five nations teams except England before being admitted. It is a shame they haven’t kicked on as the transition to professionalism hit them hard but they earned their place on the field.
Georgia have beaten Wales once and Italy once. That’s it. Perhaps these games would carry more weight if they had performed at the World Cup but they didn’t, they were very poor.
I’d like to see Georgia play more tests in the autumn and summer but from my perspective as a Scotland fan, every time we’ve played Georgia it’s been preceded by lots of hype and talk about getting into the 6N and then they’ve lost heavily.
Argentina came 3rd in a World Cup without competing in the 6N or 3N.
What are you guys talking about? It's way easier to go from Tier 3 to tier 2 than from tier 2 to tier 1? Which tram has genuinely manages to do that? Only Argentina and they still get their ass kicked by the likes of the AB. People that don't know anything about italian rugby but still feel like theh can talk in behalf of it really piss me off.
What are you guys talking about? It's way easier to go from Tier 3 ti tier 2 than from tier 2 to tier 1? Which tram has genuinely manages to do that? Only Argentina and they still get their ass kicked by the likes of the AB. People that don't know anything about italian rugby but still feel like theh can talk in behalf of it really piss me off.
true they can’t progress if not playing against teams that will challenge them well but i can’t see italy leaving the tournament or another team joining
You were on the cusp of beating England last week. Losing to Ireland by that scoreline is not a bad thing whatsoever. 8 years ago you were losing this fixture by 60 odd points easy. Leaving the 6N would just reverse the progress made.
Italy can and should stay in the 6N fold, and personally I would be extremely disappointed if they pulled out. However other teams (Georgia, Spain, Romania, Portugal) could be involved in the 6N in a promotion/relegation system. This would be unpopular with the Home Nations and France (which is why is hasn't and likely won't happen), but this "closed club" format is a little sad in some ways, similar to the Home Nations refusing to accept that the early World Cups in soccer had any meaning.
Financially alone that's a terrible idea. And more money is more investment in the game. They'll get more money from finishing bottom than they ever would from the world cup
Ireland's success comes from our domestic set up. I think Italy need to be putting more money into Benetton and Zebre and trying to get some of the Italian players who play in France back into the Italian domestic teams. Benetton play some great rugby in the URC and should be building on that and trying to push for some decent runs in Europe - it was great to see them do so well in the Challenge Cup last year. Zebre sadly need quite a bit of work.
I have no idea what the academy and schools system looks like but I can imagine it needs a lot more support too.
As a Scottish fan I think Italy do have a decent chance of beating us in Rome. On the other hand, I don’t think they were close to beating England at all last week. England were firmly in control for the whole of the second half and the result wasn’t really in doubt at all in the last quarter.
The good:
Thought Crowley had a great game.
Lowe was fantastic.
Good to see Henshaw looking dangerous.
Defence was good, not often you hold a team scoreless.
The could be better:
Italy didn't really offer much so it hard to know what to make of the overall performance there werea lot of opportunities wasted though.
While Crowley is taking to international level like a duck to water I'm not as confident with Casey. He had a dominant pack today, clean ball and an outhalf playing well and he still didn't look great. Seems to get flustered quite a bit, makes some bad decisions and kicking isnt great. Still the best of the alternatives though so hopefully he'll improve as he gets more time.
The way the subs came on I thought rendered the opportunity to see some players get a run a bit redundant. Crowley going to fullback, Larmour on in the center, things shifting, started losing set pieces. Made it all a bit disjointed and scrappy and the subs didnt look too great. Would like to see Byrne and Larmour given a start and let them grow into a game and gain some confidence they'll be around for a while, have the talent and can be useful.
I think you may be a bit harsh on Casey here. He set up one try with a nice pop pass. Had one bad kick at the start which wasnt great to be fair. His speed and accuracy of pass is on par or at least second to only JGP. He obviously isnt ahead of JGP but I thought he did well, I cant recall him making any huge mistakes.
I thought the same after watching but the stats had speed of ball out of the rucks at around the same as last week.
Reckon it's just the familiarity, he's still at the point where he's thinking about what he needs to do, whereas JGP trains and plays in the system every week of the year so it's that bit more fluid. I'd expect it to improve as Casey gets more caps.
Byrne seemed a bit meh not bad just fine. Larmour felt terrible idk if its just me but i swear he messed up alot for such a little amount of time on the pitch
Byrne made a few mistakes but so did Crowley at the start of the game last week. Takes time to get into the rhythm and Byrne looked sharp and had things working smooth in patches.
Larmour came on in the center where he doesn't usually play and bar the neck roll the rest wasn't that bad. The fact we seen him so much also shows how involved he was in the short amount of time he had. He was just trying to hard. We see it time and again with players who feel they have 10/15 minutes to make a mark and end up overplaying things. Starting a game is a different thing.
So for Italy there were some positives and negatives to take from this match.
I'll start with the negatives:
* Lineouts
* Kicking
* Territorial gain
* Lineouts
I really feel your pain reading your comments. Nearly beating England was pretty epic though. Italy has been teased with a lot of narrow losses in that time too.
Look it reminds me of what Yoda said to luke
Do Or Do Not There Is No Try
And I think that applies to Italy here yea they haven't been destroyed in every game in the last 9 years but aside from that 1 win InCardiff they have just 1 win in their last 44 games anyway you cut this cake that's still depressing as hell
Their losing run at home btw stretches all the way back to 2013
0-26 losing streak at home
If they can't beat Scotland at home they will record their 11th consecutive year shut out at home in the Six nations
Since the other one was deleted
>Think that pack can be put to bed, let the rucks become a mess the same as this fixture last year.
> Ryan had a chance to make a statement after last week and didn't really take it at all.
>McCloskey, Conan, Casey had good games but not good enough to affect about the pecking order.
>Larmour and Byrne didn't do themselves any favours
I thought Casey wasn’t great. I thought Byrne was decent enough when he came on. Larmour had an absolute nightmare, talk about negative impact every time he touched the ball, feel bad for him
I think he was pretty good. Obviously doesn't know the system as well and isn't the perfect fit like JGP is, but his passing was good all game and bar the first one his kicking was great.
Definitely potential there and reckon he'll push on massively if he starts getting consistent game time in the first team.
I mean to keep getting into squads even though he's not from Leinster (and doesn't have the system familiarity helping him) means he must be at least decent.
Not to mention getting ahead of one of the best scrumhalves of all time for Munster.
He must be one of the most overly criticised players in the world right now, it's bizarre.
You don't think Ireland playing the same system as Leinster helps their players make squads?
It's a valid tactic and it's been (bar the world cup) extremely successful but don't pretend it's not a thing when Harry Byrne and Jordan Larmour are making matchday 23s.
Who exactly should have been ahead of either of them in a heavily rotated side? We have no wingers who aren't injured or any proven 10's?
Could make the same argument for including Murray when he's not even first choice for his province when Blade is in phenomenal form.
Won't make a difference to you though, clearly hard core Leinsterman Paul O'Connell is having a massive influence over Farrell and his selection of Peter O'Mahony as captain just keeps pushing it even further.
Over Larmour I would've had someone who hasn't had 30 caps and been proven not good enough. Maybe Frisch since Larmour wasn't trusted at 15 anyway.
Over Byrne I suppose there's not too many options. The best alternative was on the bench for Scotland instead.
I'd kind of agree with Murray, but at least he offers a different style to the other nines (including Blade) so it's understandable.
And again it's not an emotional bias, so it's irrelevant where the coaches are from. It's that the system is heavily based on Leinster (this isn't news) so their players have a much easier time getting in because they already know it.
Feel like there’s a bit of stubbornness to the selections of Casey and to an extent Harry Byrne (but that’s moreso within the leinster setup, think the Irish coaches have their hands tied a bit), we’ve invested a lot into developing them into the next big thing now it might be a bit too late to give up, but they also should be a bit further along by now too?
Feel like (probably biasedly) we’d be a lot better off right now if we’d dropped casey for blade a while ago but at this point it might be a bit too late to admit failure?
Casey was as mediocre as he is. That’s his level. Byrne was good. Sure he didn’t catch a pass behind his ear and the sub went mad, but actually he was good. That said Crowley just gets further ahead of him every time he plays.
If crowley kicks like he does for munster he should 100% be the nailed on starter in every important game. Way too good in open play to sit on the bench
Me watching any other team with a scoreline like this: YES GO FOR THE JUGULAR!
me watching this scoreline with Italy: Ah lads can ya not just give em one consolation 😭
I want to see us be as mean and ruthless as possible for the next four years until we finally win a knockout game. If that means giving Italy a kicking they don’t deserve them so be it. We need that ruthless streak and clinical winnings mentality.
We weren't mean and ruthless today. We coughed up 3 or 4 tries in their 22 either by handling errors, or giving away dumb penalties. I thought aside from that we were very good.
Yeah, we’ve definitely some way to go. Having said that, we did keep them to nil, which isn’t easy, and we were one the ones pressing at the end. I’d say that it’s maybe more a case of lacking a bit of cohesion and clinical edge rather than lacking the attitude of being ruthless. The team looked like they wanted to keep scoring and make sure Italy weren’t going to get even a consolation try. Just lacked a bit of an edge today. But if you’re talking about lacking an edge after scoring six tries and keeping the other team scoreless then the team is in a pretty good place.
I feel like Ireland never really left 3rd gear today and Italy never really looked like scoring
I still feel bad for Italy, your point is completely valid but it feels like hitting a puppy
I don’t think I can disagree with anything there. I enjoyed getting a TBP, a solid points difference, and see some nice tries. But couldn’t help feeling sorry for Italy the whole time. I want to cheer them on. I want them to do well.
I think there's a trust in the Irish team (we lost it a little in the 60th/ 70th minute but got it back quickly after subs).
That I don't see in other teams at the moment. As biased as I am (I am always biased towards Ireland) I truly believe it's key to the difference at the international level.
There were times in that game, with the no look passes. The standing in the defensive wall. Not needing to think if the man next to you is doing his job or not.
The unspoken communication between them in the attack.
I'm loving the rugby were playing at the moment.
Helps that so many of them play for eachother at the provinces (particularly leinster). Fair play to the IRFU for how they handled professionalism because we really do look like the most cohesive team in the tournament
England didn't have that trust when they played Italy last week, you could see it in the narrow defence.
Ireland are looking strong and confident, bouncing off Italian players and not overcommitting players to tackling. I'm hoping England's comfort under the highball could make for an interesting match in a few weeks time, but at the moment I think we're going to get battered.
I think the new system is taking some time to bed in, at points in the Wales game it looked excellent (~25 phases of no gain in that one passage). The question is whether the gaps that led to the tries are system unfamiliarity/poor execution or a problem with the system itself.
Remaining optimistic for now but the remaining games are all better attacking teams so if its unfamiliarity we haven't got much time to fix it
I also don't see any of Sco/Ire/Fra running the ball at us relatively tight for 25 phases to let us show off the good parts
Really disappointed that Italy didn’t give us anything to worry about. I can’t think of a moment where I was concerned that they’d score in the second half. I’ say the Netflix lads are sweating about how to make this 6 Nations interesting
we barely got focus in s1, and with the rest of the teams playing at more or less on same level, more people will wanna watch that. also tbf, unlike DTS, i feel like full contact wasn't really made to bring new fans in, felt more like the show was made for people already fans, instead of both
Yeah I thought it was weird we didn’t feature last year, given that we won the competition. It was very Eng/Sco/Ita heavy. Very little Wales too but there seemed to be a decent amount of Gatland
We were the most restrictive with the cameras. Even all the Sexton comments seem like they were cut and separated out from the one short interview. Hoping we're a bit more relaxed with them this year
As a Scotland tragic, this type of performance really shuts out any hope I have at all for an upset - especially with how Scotland turned off against France.
I'm a terribly biased leinster and Ireland fan but I think Lowe's now the most valuable #11 in the world. Great defender and finisher, strong offload and carry game which get gainline but most importantly that bomb of a left boot. Leinster and Ireland consistently win kicking duels by 20/30 metres when he's involved. He flips the field consistently
The difference he makes is just so noticeable, which is very genuinely difficult in a game where 30 players take the field. Even this season for Leinster games just go so differently depending if he’s playing or not.
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To call 36-0 in favour of Ireland one-sided and humiliating is very much an understatement of the millennium.
Yea like to let this sink in italy had never been shut playing against ireland before That's pretty shocking because even in the miserable run of 36 straight losses italy managed while losing to ireland in six nations 2015 26-3 2016 58-15 2017 63- 10 2018 56- 19 2019 26-16 2020 50-17 2021 48-10 2022 57-6 2023 34-20 Point is they always managed at least 1 score and usually got at least 1 try but this was just complete domination and there lucky because it was very clear ireland took their foot off the gas one they got the bonus point
After today, I won't be sad if I never see Varney in the Italy shirt ever again
hoping that Crowley doesn't take to much from Byrne taken over the kicking towards the end of the game, Overall Crowley didn't play too bad,
While on the other side hopefully Byrne takes massive confidence from a seriously impressive kick given the conditions
Turns out Z is for zero.
That is pretty much off-topic, but once England lost 36-0 to SA, then managed to reach a RWC final.
Can’t wait for the England Ireland shit fest
Anyone want to chip in on a GoFundMe to send Donal Lenihan to the Instituto Italiano to learn how to say 'Capuozzo' instead of 'Capoootzo'? Funny thing is, he got it right once, and then reverted. Is he winding us all up?
Only if we can send the Italian commentators on Sky to English classes to learn how to say Farrell instead of Far- El.They make him sound like he's from Krypton.Also they keep calling O'Mahoney O'MaHOney.
Just be glad that Simon Geoghegan isn't playing any more!
He’s from Cork
Like that’s an explanation. (It is.)
I'll chip in if we can leave him there.
Garbisi is going to have nightmares of Joe McCarthy
Player of the tournament so far
No chance as an English fan Tommy reffell has been incredible McCarthy has simply been great but not unplayable.
Give Caolin Blade an actual chance, I beg.
Murray's probably gone next year, he could get a chance in squads then but it's hard to see him getting into the 23
JGP has a WC cycle in him yet I’d say and Casey is being primed to take over in the long term. Blade is kinda caught in the middle of the two with only two caps to his name.
I looked up his age yesterday. He’ll be 32 later this month. I thought he was a few years older
He landed in Leinster at 23ish so he has been around the province a long time. The thinning hair doesn’t help though.
It’s the hair. He’d look at lot younger without the combover
Yeah certainly wouldn't write JGP off with the form he's in now but speed is his biggest asset and that's usually the first thing to go with age. But yeah I think if Doak pushes on Blade will unfortunately be stuck with the "best of the rest" couple of caps.
Although his speed is a great asset, his game sense is underrated. He’s able to turn up in position for the offload and is able to make a great defensive read which Casey doesn’t have yet, he’s also a nimble little fucker
For sure, was only the Scotland game at the world cup where his pace completely blew me away. And on the game sense yeah it's also so impressive with the way we're playing. He knows the system so well that he doesn't even have to think about what he's doing or look up to see where players are, it's all almost on instinct. Think that's the biggest thing separating him from Casey (and all the other scrumhalves not in the squad) atm.
JGP showed he’s a cut above the rest today. Let’s write him off once there is a worthy successor. Not before
Who's writing him off?
Nobody. But I think everyone’s conscious of his age.
He’s only 32. He looks older though
Ah yeah, sure we were saying the same about Johnny in 2020, maybe JGP will be able to do the same as him
JGP has a superior awareness and running game than Casey no doubt, but Casey has a superb pass, argubably a better passer. They're both relatively small and light. Both feeding off each other at the moment, we are blessed to have them and Murray.
Yeah, a lot of the negativity is strange when we have two top class options in JGP and Murray (whatever about Munster form he always shows up in green) with Casey having a great game yesterday to show he'll be pushing them over the next while. I know people want Blade to get a chance but I'm almost positive if he did get one the criticism would switch to him fairly quick if he wasn't JGP level from the start.
Job done, Wales next. I’m glad to see the rotated-in players getting some time. For not having any players in the 23 v France, I would honestly keep the Ulster men and also start Timoney. Maybe Casey is better suited to cameo off the bench, and I think Frawley had an injury - otherwise I’d like to see the 6/2 split again with him. Wasn’t too convinced by Larmour, but he covers some key positions.
Start Timoney where?
Didn't bother watching this one cos I'd work to catch up on. Despite the flair, I'm always rooting for Italy to pull off an upset but I just knew there was no way it was gonna happen today, so I didn't see the point in tuning in anyway. I know "You never know" and all that, but still...we all knew. EDIT: Oh sorry, I thought it ended up 36-0, is that wrong? Did Italy actually win? Was it even close? No? Well then
“Couldn’t be arsed watching but I’ll still give my opinion anyway.” Thank you for your insightful contribution.
I don't know how you managed to misunderstand something so simple, but try reading next time before commenting.
You're being downvoted to oblivion because you sound like a smart-arse gobshite. The kind you bump into at a pub where everyone is watching the game and they turn around and say "Oh, is there a football game on today? I just came down for a quick G&T"... If you're too cool or too busy to watch the game (despite telling us you're rooting for the opposition team), then don't watch it. Literally no one cares. But hopping on here and exclaiming you were too busy or too cool is comical. It doesn't make you look or sound edgy or informed or anything else but an insufferable boor. Get a grip.
No doubt you'll call this a "smartarse" response but there's no nice way of putting it, it's amazing how you and almost everyone else here are so confidently incorrect after somehow misreading something so simple. > If you're too cool Thanks, but that's in your head, nobody said that. > or too busy There you go! So you *can* read (just about) > (despite telling us you're rooting for the opposition team) Lol what's that got to do with anything? Don't you have any sympathy for the underdog? The point was they weren't going to pull off an upset. So it proved. > Literally no one cares. And yet here you are, commenting. > But hopping on here and exclaiming you were too busy Missing or not understanding a very simple point, again. Amazing. > or too cool I'm so flattered, but again, that's in your head. Nobody said this. > It doesn't make you look or sound edgy or informed or anything else Once again, reading that into it borders on illiteracy. Nobody said or implied any of this. > Get a grip. Likewise. If you're far too cool to care what I think (or read or understand it), there's not much point in being a prick about it, is there?
He's not wrong. Your comment is a waste of our time.
It's Sunday and we are on Reddit. Don't pretend we are all stick for time
The guy took some time out of his extremely busy schedule of watching Italy games that are foregone conclusions to pretend not to understand Reddit comments for updoots, we should all be very grateful.
Bless him
I mean nobody’s forcing ye to reply to him, or even read beyond the first line where there’s a pretty clear caveat
Nah, people would rather be smug pricks about having three seconds of their valuable time "wasted" by a comment they somehow didn't understand.
Yeah I don’t see the big deal at all ? If anything it’s probably fairly relatable? If I was any busier I probably wouldn’t have been too pushed to tune in either because it’s “just Italy” whereas I made sure I’d time for the 5 other matches that were played so far
It really is as simple as that. People are either morons if they don't understand that or pretending to be for the sake of trolling.
Well he is wrong, unless the 36-0 scoreline I've seen was wrong? Did Italy actually win? Was it even close? No? Then I don't see what's so difficult to understand about my comment. It's really not very complicated.
It’s not difficult to understand your comment. Just difficult to understand why you bothered making it seeing as it said exactly nothing. It’s like me going on r/physics and saying I know nothing about physics
I mean clearly it was extremely difficult to understand, since you're still managing not to. I genuinely don't know how to make it any clearer, and someone else has already explained it, but the point was that watching the game felt pointless because it was a foregone conclusion and didn't seem worth the time. And so it proved (unless the 36-0 scoreline was a false flag from the Pentagon or something.) There. Simple as that.
Ok……what everyone is perplexed at is your need to inform us that you weren’t bothered watching it. I couldn’t think of a piece of information less interesting than that. On a thread where everyone is talking about a specific event, your non-interest in it is of no interest to anyone.
And yet here you are, still commenting despite having no interest? Reddit is so odd. The actual point of my extremely innocuous comment was that the game felt pointless to watch because it was never going to have any other outcome, but the first idiot to reply pretended to think I was saying something else which led to everyone else piling on. Lemmings gonna lemming.
Yeah, I’m merely pointing out the pointlessness of your comment and subsequent defence of those comments. Much like you are still commenting despite supposedly not commenting. It’s Reddit, we’re all just wasting our time. Simply perplexed at the idea that someone would supposedly be a fan but not watch because they only care when it’s gonna be a close game but then comment for the world to see that they didn’t watch and then get upset at others asking why the fuck they thought anyone would give a fuck that they didn’t watch. Get over yourself dude.
italy need more game time but not against teams like ireland. teams where they have a shot
They keep playing against tier 1 teams outside of the 6 nations too. Their fans and players never get a break.
They've still got Wales to come
Wales need more game time but not against teams like Italy. teams where they have a shot
The only other teams they match up well with are really just Georgia, Japan, and the Pacific island teams. Any other team nearby in Europe is generally either a very tough 6 Nations fixture or a cakewalk against teams outside it. Spain and Portugal have shown promise lately. Romania has declined. I hear mentions of Belgium, but I dunno.
Italy is basically the gatekeeper of tier 1. They beat fairly convincingly any team not in there, but are underdogs against any T1 squad that’s not Japan or Fidji…
not really
maybe their should be another rugby league added in and have like 20 teams from europe ( no ireland they would destroy all )
the teams in the six nations make italy out to be a “bad” team which is just not true. Italy are good but their playing against teams like ireland who are no.2 in the world they don’t have a chance. Italy might need to look into taking a step back and working more even if it’s just to beat wales and not get the wooden spoon
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They played well? What game were you watching?
Italy are well above the ERC teams but just out of reach of the other 6N teams. Bit of a no mans land team at the minute.
this is it. i totally agree.
They’re on the wrong side of the world. A six nations with Italy, Japan, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, and maybe Argentina would be pretty competitive. Argentina and Fiji favourites, but not playing in a completely different league to the rest.
Subscribe Seriously, that would be a class tournament to watch, although travel would be an issue, I guess
This is what annoys me when people start with drop them for whoever has just won a game from tier 2. Italy beat those guys. They probably do better than the other teams would do against any of the other 5 nations.
they with no doubt do their in no man’s land too good for t2 but to bad for t1
The question is what can the other nations do with 24 years of money and exposure that the 6 nations provide? Italy are (deservedly) in a very privileged position compared to the others.
No better than Italy have done since Italy came into the 6N because they’d beaten several of the 5N teams during the previous seasons. When have any of the others beaten a tier 1m team?
You can't really say "no better than Italy". Georgia has only gotten serious investment since 07 and have already beaten Italy away from home. Portugal had a much, much better showing at the world cup than Italy despite no professional domestic setup. The money involved in the 6 nations would completely transform any tier 2 setup.
Georgia beat Wales in 2022 autumn series when Wales were arguably at the lowest they'd ever been as a union, taking it on the chin from Italy and Georgia in the same calendar year. That it's a memorable, banner year for both Italy and Georgia to beat Wales while they were at their perigee should indicate how big the gap normally is between original rugby nations and the rest of the world.
Good point. And yes as you and someone else said. The issue isn’t that Italy aren’t doing well and others are. It’s that the gap to the top tier for any of those guys is huge.
That's been true for so many years.
I don't know enough about Georgia etc to know if this is true but apparently all the talk about replacing them with other European teams wouldn't work since those teams aren't even on Italy's level, let alone the other 5. So like you say they don't suck but they really look like it by the standards of this competition, but especially against a team as excellent as Ireland are right now.
This is nonsense talk, seeing as last time Italy played Georgia, Georgia won. All the other European teams have progressed and improved more than Italy in the same timeframe, without access to the exposure, experience and finances of an annual tournament with Tier 1 nations
Georgia finished below Portugal in the world cup pool. Not sure I'd put them in the improved category.
Portugal have also progressed brilliantly in the last 20 years. The bottom line is Italy have done fuck all with the great platform and opportunity they have. Someone else should get the chance. We want the game to grow ffs
Portugal just got beat by Belgium, they don't have any professional club system either. Your lack of rugby knowledge is starting to show and that's usually a sign to just stop flapping your gums pal.
Belgium another team that’s progressing. I thought we weren’t using wins and losses as the metric to measure progress, as with Italy??
Actively advocating to kick out a country with 2 professional clubs and replace them with a country that's categorically not up to the same standard and has no professional clubs hardly any fans and few professional players is "growing the game?" Edit: it would be sensible to offer more funding for the tier two unions with the proviso that if they can meet a certain standard they could join the competition AS WELL instead of kicking a team out arbitrarily.
I’ve been very clear that I don’t want anyone kicked out. If you read what I said instead of arguing points no one was making….
"The bottom line is Italy have done fuck all with the great platform and opportunity they have. Someone else should get the chance. We want the game to grow ffs" So what does that mean?
Portugal have progressed to Georgias level. And Georgia aren't anywhere close to being 6 nations level. The Italian win they had was 2 years ago in a once off game when Italywere poor even by their own standards. They have since failed to beat Portugal and struggled with the likes of Germany. Its just idiocy to think you can throw them into a 6 week top tier competition. In place of a team that regularly competes above their level with two professional teams competing well in the URC.
They were not poor they just beat Wales and had their best 6N in years.
Good thing I’m not proposing that then. I’d say two 6 team conferences, winner of each playing the other in a Championship game. Conferences drawn off world rankings in a snake format, then done off the previous years results going forward. Means a mix of tier 1 and tier 2 competition for everyone, without inflating the length of the tournament. And it grows the game. I’ve said so many times, yes Italy are better than Georgia (the consensus next team along). But Georgia would be better than Italy if they had the same opportunity. I want to grow the game
2 groups of 6 based off current rankings then would have ireland, England, Wales plus 3 t2 teams? Other group France, Scotland, Italy plus 3 t2? So taking 3 of the biggest income games away from the unions and replacing them with tier 2 fixtures? That won't grow the game it will just hamstring the current 6 nations teams.
Exactly yeah. Ireland (for example) would have 2 games against existing t1, and 3 games against developing. Which also means the developing teams play against big opposition as well as each other. More regularly. And your concern about the big income games is exactly why the game isn’t growing. Fans would go to them. Real ones would anyway
righttttt they don’t suck but to them they do it’s like putting a baby against a man, the baby isn’t going to win but the man will but that same baby can beat and hammer other babies ( weird analogy ) but you couldn’t replace italy unless with a team out of europe (impossible bc it’s to decide the best team in europe)
This is nonsense talk, seeing as last time Italy played Georgia, Georgia won. All the other European teams have progressed and improved more than Italy in the same timeframe, without access to the exposure, experience and finances of an annual tournament with Tier 1 nations
So by the same logic since we won against Ireland in 2013 then we've been always better than you since?
That’s not the same logic, and no. How’s it gone since then?
That’s not the same logic, and no. How’s it gone since then?
But that’s not the normal result between them. One win doesn’t suddenly make Georgia better. Do a play off between them and I’d be certain we wouldn’t see Georgia in the 6N.
Based on what? we only played italy 4 times in 20 years, I seriously don't give a fuck about 6N, especially since it's clearly not going to happen anyway, have also absolutely nothing against Italy and usually cheer for them but where does that glorious take that Italy is clearly better than Georgia comes from? based on what metric are they clearly better?
Georgia won the most recent game, but lost the 4 beforehand. However Georgias win is more recent that italys last win in the 6n. The bottom line is yes, Italy are maybe the better team at the moment. But if Georgia got the same opportunity as Italy, I gaurantee they wouldn’t be for long
Wholeheartedly agree, though I am biased as I lived in Georgia for a while. Italy were given a special opportunity but have not proven to be special. I don't mean to disrespect Italy as a sporting nation (I also watch football and cycling and the Italians need no charity there), but something different needs to be done here. I can say first-hand that the entire country of Georgia would get behind their team, more-so than the Italians who, let's be honest, by majority have little more than a passing interest in rugby. This experiment with Italy has been running for 24 years and day 9,000 looks a bit similar to day 1. Italy would benefit from some more meaningful games against teams like Georgia and possibly Romania/Spain/Portugal (given a few years development for those countries, perhaps), the Six Nations would benefit from a promotion/relegation system, and it's a golden opportunity to grow the sport beyond the usual tier 1 countries, which is desperately needed. Love seeing Ireland win, but would love more to see them win in an environment where more than a few teams have a shot.
Surprised we’re back to having these conversations so quickly after a World Cup that was so disastrous for Georgia. They’re were supposed to prove to everyone how competitive they were on the big stage and they flopped badly. Georgia talk a great game but the evidence for them to get a chance in the 6N is incredibly thin.
"Incredibly thin" is a bit unfair, don't you think? They won the Rugby Europe International Championships in 2023, winning all of their games (including the final against Portugal) by 24+ points, and finished the competition with a points difference of 225-41. They have won every tournament bar 2 since 2006. Italy only won that tournament once before they were allowed into the 6N. The only recent game Georgia played against Italy, Georgia won by more than a try. If they are excluded from the 6N, I'm not sure how else they are supposed to develop. They don't exactly have money to burn over there, they can't maintain a professional rugby setup for a few World Cup games every 4 years.
> they can't maintain a professional rugby setup for a few World Cup games every 4 years A professional league is an end in itself, it's not all about their world cup prospects. They should maintain a professional league because rugby is fun and people in Georgia would like to see some high quality games - like any other pro league for any sport in the world.
The REC is irrelevant to this discussion. Although it is improving it is obviously not at a competitive enough standard to tell us much about whether a team can be competitive in the 6N. Italy won multiple games against all the five nations teams except England before being admitted. It is a shame they haven’t kicked on as the transition to professionalism hit them hard but they earned their place on the field. Georgia have beaten Wales once and Italy once. That’s it. Perhaps these games would carry more weight if they had performed at the World Cup but they didn’t, they were very poor. I’d like to see Georgia play more tests in the autumn and summer but from my perspective as a Scotland fan, every time we’ve played Georgia it’s been preceded by lots of hype and talk about getting into the 6N and then they’ve lost heavily. Argentina came 3rd in a World Cup without competing in the 6N or 3N.
What are you guys talking about? It's way easier to go from Tier 3 to tier 2 than from tier 2 to tier 1? Which tram has genuinely manages to do that? Only Argentina and they still get their ass kicked by the likes of the AB. People that don't know anything about italian rugby but still feel like theh can talk in behalf of it really piss me off.
What are you guys talking about? It's way easier to go from Tier 3 ti tier 2 than from tier 2 to tier 1? Which tram has genuinely manages to do that? Only Argentina and they still get their ass kicked by the likes of the AB. People that don't know anything about italian rugby but still feel like theh can talk in behalf of it really piss me off.
Italy still aren’t tier 1. Time for someone else to get the opportunity to see what they can do in 25 years of unfettered and unrivalled access
Italy still aren’t tier 1. Time for someone else to get the opportunity to see what they can do in 25 years of unfettered and unrivalled access
Italy still aren’t tier 1. Time for someone else to get the opportunity to see what they can do in 25 years of unfettered and unrivalled access
Italy still aren’t tier 1. Time for someone else to get the opportunity to see what they can do in 25 years of unfettered and unrivalled access
true they can’t progress if not playing against teams that will challenge them well but i can’t see italy leaving the tournament or another team joining
As an Italian fan I think we should try to play more T2 nations, even if that means withdrawing from 6Ns
You were on the cusp of beating England last week. Losing to Ireland by that scoreline is not a bad thing whatsoever. 8 years ago you were losing this fixture by 60 odd points easy. Leaving the 6N would just reverse the progress made.
Italy can and should stay in the 6N fold, and personally I would be extremely disappointed if they pulled out. However other teams (Georgia, Spain, Romania, Portugal) could be involved in the 6N in a promotion/relegation system. This would be unpopular with the Home Nations and France (which is why is hasn't and likely won't happen), but this "closed club" format is a little sad in some ways, similar to the Home Nations refusing to accept that the early World Cups in soccer had any meaning.
Financially alone that's a terrible idea. And more money is more investment in the game. They'll get more money from finishing bottom than they ever would from the world cup
Ireland's success comes from our domestic set up. I think Italy need to be putting more money into Benetton and Zebre and trying to get some of the Italian players who play in France back into the Italian domestic teams. Benetton play some great rugby in the URC and should be building on that and trying to push for some decent runs in Europe - it was great to see them do so well in the Challenge Cup last year. Zebre sadly need quite a bit of work. I have no idea what the academy and schools system looks like but I can imagine it needs a lot more support too.
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As a Scottish fan I think Italy do have a decent chance of beating us in Rome. On the other hand, I don’t think they were close to beating England at all last week. England were firmly in control for the whole of the second half and the result wasn’t really in doubt at all in the last quarter.
Well you do have a match against Wales coming up.
Those aren't mutually exclusive
The good: Thought Crowley had a great game. Lowe was fantastic. Good to see Henshaw looking dangerous. Defence was good, not often you hold a team scoreless. The could be better: Italy didn't really offer much so it hard to know what to make of the overall performance there werea lot of opportunities wasted though. While Crowley is taking to international level like a duck to water I'm not as confident with Casey. He had a dominant pack today, clean ball and an outhalf playing well and he still didn't look great. Seems to get flustered quite a bit, makes some bad decisions and kicking isnt great. Still the best of the alternatives though so hopefully he'll improve as he gets more time. The way the subs came on I thought rendered the opportunity to see some players get a run a bit redundant. Crowley going to fullback, Larmour on in the center, things shifting, started losing set pieces. Made it all a bit disjointed and scrappy and the subs didnt look too great. Would like to see Byrne and Larmour given a start and let them grow into a game and gain some confidence they'll be around for a while, have the talent and can be useful.
I think you may be a bit harsh on Casey here. He set up one try with a nice pop pass. Had one bad kick at the start which wasnt great to be fair. His speed and accuracy of pass is on par or at least second to only JGP. He obviously isnt ahead of JGP but I thought he did well, I cant recall him making any huge mistakes.
I thought our ruck ball was slower today with Casey. If he's not quick enough then what I'm wondering does he offer enough?
Ruck ball was slower whatever the stats say.
I thought the same after watching but the stats had speed of ball out of the rucks at around the same as last week. Reckon it's just the familiarity, he's still at the point where he's thinking about what he needs to do, whereas JGP trains and plays in the system every week of the year so it's that bit more fluid. I'd expect it to improve as Casey gets more caps.
Byrne seemed a bit meh not bad just fine. Larmour felt terrible idk if its just me but i swear he messed up alot for such a little amount of time on the pitch
Byrne made a few mistakes but so did Crowley at the start of the game last week. Takes time to get into the rhythm and Byrne looked sharp and had things working smooth in patches. Larmour came on in the center where he doesn't usually play and bar the neck roll the rest wasn't that bad. The fact we seen him so much also shows how involved he was in the short amount of time he had. He was just trying to hard. We see it time and again with players who feel they have 10/15 minutes to make a mark and end up overplaying things. Starting a game is a different thing.
So for Italy there were some positives and negatives to take from this match. I'll start with the negatives: * Lineouts * Kicking * Territorial gain * Lineouts
1 win in last 8 6Ns. I might need to take a break from watching this tournament
I really feel your pain reading your comments. Nearly beating England was pretty epic though. Italy has been teased with a lot of narrow losses in that time too.
Look it reminds me of what Yoda said to luke Do Or Do Not There Is No Try And I think that applies to Italy here yea they haven't been destroyed in every game in the last 9 years but aside from that 1 win InCardiff they have just 1 win in their last 44 games anyway you cut this cake that's still depressing as hell Their losing run at home btw stretches all the way back to 2013 0-26 losing streak at home If they can't beat Scotland at home they will record their 11th consecutive year shut out at home in the Six nations
Italy didn’t nearly beat England. England nearly lost to Italy
That is about the same thing for history books.
Best moment of the game was putting the tallest mascot in front of Casey.
I think that's just a tradition now.
No POM, CJ retired, clear in here who the idiots have identified as the focus of their D4 Gammon Face bluster in the face of such adversity.
Don't leave us all in suspense. Who has been identified as the focus of the D4 gammon faced bluster in the face of such adversity?
Dem up der in Dublin
Since the other one was deleted >Think that pack can be put to bed, let the rucks become a mess the same as this fixture last year. > Ryan had a chance to make a statement after last week and didn't really take it at all. >McCloskey, Conan, Casey had good games but not good enough to affect about the pecking order. >Larmour and Byrne didn't do themselves any favours
McCloskey proved he is the best Understudy for Aki
Outrageous
McCloskey proved he is the best Understudy for Aki
Fair
I thought Casey wasn’t great. I thought Byrne was decent enough when he came on. Larmour had an absolute nightmare, talk about negative impact every time he touched the ball, feel bad for him
I think he was pretty good. Obviously doesn't know the system as well and isn't the perfect fit like JGP is, but his passing was good all game and bar the first one his kicking was great. Definitely potential there and reckon he'll push on massively if he starts getting consistent game time in the first team.
Casey has been omnipresent in Irish squads for a loooooooong time. He just isn't very good and we need to find someone better.
I mean to keep getting into squads even though he's not from Leinster (and doesn't have the system familiarity helping him) means he must be at least decent. Not to mention getting ahead of one of the best scrumhalves of all time for Munster. He must be one of the most overly criticised players in the world right now, it's bizarre.
>even though he's not from Leinster Get some salt to match that chip on your shoulder
You don't think Ireland playing the same system as Leinster helps their players make squads? It's a valid tactic and it's been (bar the world cup) extremely successful but don't pretend it's not a thing when Harry Byrne and Jordan Larmour are making matchday 23s.
Who exactly should have been ahead of either of them in a heavily rotated side? We have no wingers who aren't injured or any proven 10's? Could make the same argument for including Murray when he's not even first choice for his province when Blade is in phenomenal form. Won't make a difference to you though, clearly hard core Leinsterman Paul O'Connell is having a massive influence over Farrell and his selection of Peter O'Mahony as captain just keeps pushing it even further.
Over Larmour I would've had someone who hasn't had 30 caps and been proven not good enough. Maybe Frisch since Larmour wasn't trusted at 15 anyway. Over Byrne I suppose there's not too many options. The best alternative was on the bench for Scotland instead. I'd kind of agree with Murray, but at least he offers a different style to the other nines (including Blade) so it's understandable. And again it's not an emotional bias, so it's irrelevant where the coaches are from. It's that the system is heavily based on Leinster (this isn't news) so their players have a much easier time getting in because they already know it.
Feel like there’s a bit of stubbornness to the selections of Casey and to an extent Harry Byrne (but that’s moreso within the leinster setup, think the Irish coaches have their hands tied a bit), we’ve invested a lot into developing them into the next big thing now it might be a bit too late to give up, but they also should be a bit further along by now too? Feel like (probably biasedly) we’d be a lot better off right now if we’d dropped casey for blade a while ago but at this point it might be a bit too late to admit failure?
How old is Blade? If he’s the right age we should give him a go
Casey was as mediocre as he is. That’s his level. Byrne was good. Sure he didn’t catch a pass behind his ear and the sub went mad, but actually he was good. That said Crowley just gets further ahead of him every time he plays.
If crowley kicks like he does for munster he should 100% be the nailed on starter in every important game. Way too good in open play to sit on the bench
Casey is better with Munster for sure. Still a bit of a step up at test level for him
Me watching any other team with a scoreline like this: YES GO FOR THE JUGULAR! me watching this scoreline with Italy: Ah lads can ya not just give em one consolation 😭
I want to see us be as mean and ruthless as possible for the next four years until we finally win a knockout game. If that means giving Italy a kicking they don’t deserve them so be it. We need that ruthless streak and clinical winnings mentality.
We weren't mean and ruthless today. We coughed up 3 or 4 tries in their 22 either by handling errors, or giving away dumb penalties. I thought aside from that we were very good.
Yeah, we’ve definitely some way to go. Having said that, we did keep them to nil, which isn’t easy, and we were one the ones pressing at the end. I’d say that it’s maybe more a case of lacking a bit of cohesion and clinical edge rather than lacking the attitude of being ruthless. The team looked like they wanted to keep scoring and make sure Italy weren’t going to get even a consolation try. Just lacked a bit of an edge today. But if you’re talking about lacking an edge after scoring six tries and keeping the other team scoreless then the team is in a pretty good place.
I feel like Ireland never really left 3rd gear today and Italy never really looked like scoring I still feel bad for Italy, your point is completely valid but it feels like hitting a puppy
I don’t think I can disagree with anything there. I enjoyed getting a TBP, a solid points difference, and see some nice tries. But couldn’t help feeling sorry for Italy the whole time. I want to cheer them on. I want them to do well.
Truth
Is it a requirement to have a fade to play for Ireland?
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Hey, Doris rocks that mullet
At this point, I think it's a requirement to have a fade to *live* in Ireland. My son gets shit in school for not having one.
Shhhh, don't tell anyone that the fade is the secret to our success!
National haircut. Hard to find a barber that doesn't do it.
Most will actually do it out of habit
I've definitely had it done after telling the barber something completely different
My husband showed a picture from his phone of what he wanted done and he still got a fade anyway.
Is this the male version of walking into the hairdressers with a buzz cut and somehow walking out with a bob
Yup
I think there's a trust in the Irish team (we lost it a little in the 60th/ 70th minute but got it back quickly after subs). That I don't see in other teams at the moment. As biased as I am (I am always biased towards Ireland) I truly believe it's key to the difference at the international level. There were times in that game, with the no look passes. The standing in the defensive wall. Not needing to think if the man next to you is doing his job or not. The unspoken communication between them in the attack. I'm loving the rugby were playing at the moment.
Helps that so many of them play for eachother at the provinces (particularly leinster). Fair play to the IRFU for how they handled professionalism because we really do look like the most cohesive team in the tournament
England didn't have that trust when they played Italy last week, you could see it in the narrow defence. Ireland are looking strong and confident, bouncing off Italian players and not overcommitting players to tackling. I'm hoping England's comfort under the highball could make for an interesting match in a few weeks time, but at the moment I think we're going to get battered.
I think the new system is taking some time to bed in, at points in the Wales game it looked excellent (~25 phases of no gain in that one passage). The question is whether the gaps that led to the tries are system unfamiliarity/poor execution or a problem with the system itself. Remaining optimistic for now but the remaining games are all better attacking teams so if its unfamiliarity we haven't got much time to fix it I also don't see any of Sco/Ire/Fra running the ball at us relatively tight for 25 phases to let us show off the good parts
Really disappointed that Italy didn’t give us anything to worry about. I can’t think of a moment where I was concerned that they’d score in the second half. I’ say the Netflix lads are sweating about how to make this 6 Nations interesting
if our 6N continues like this, I don't see us getting focus in an episode
Why not. We’re the only ones playing well.
we barely got focus in s1, and with the rest of the teams playing at more or less on same level, more people will wanna watch that. also tbf, unlike DTS, i feel like full contact wasn't really made to bring new fans in, felt more like the show was made for people already fans, instead of both
Yeah I thought it was weird we didn’t feature last year, given that we won the competition. It was very Eng/Sco/Ita heavy. Very little Wales too but there seemed to be a decent amount of Gatland
We were the most restrictive with the cameras. Even all the Sexton comments seem like they were cut and separated out from the one short interview. Hoping we're a bit more relaxed with them this year
So far the 6 nations has been certainly interesting, with Italy almost doing one over England and Scotland almost beating France, and
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Sorry I was brutally murdered. This is the murderer using the account. Again, sorry.
As a Scotland tragic, this type of performance really shuts out any hope I have at all for an upset - especially with how Scotland turned off against France.
I'm a terribly biased leinster and Ireland fan but I think Lowe's now the most valuable #11 in the world. Great defender and finisher, strong offload and carry game which get gainline but most importantly that bomb of a left boot. Leinster and Ireland consistently win kicking duels by 20/30 metres when he's involved. He flips the field consistently
The difference he makes is just so noticeable, which is very genuinely difficult in a game where 30 players take the field. Even this season for Leinster games just go so differently depending if he’s playing or not.