I think a few points are slightly contradictory, such as it being a pro there's fast progression and many skills going to 120, but then a con is that it's end-game focused, but that's the predicament Jagex is probably in. How do you keep the game flowing but try and release mid-game content without players just swizzing past it. That's where OSRS shines best and most recently with the rat boss, zombie axe and warped trident, they bridge the gap. If RS3 released a new set of t70 weapons, how many players would actually get use out of them before moving onto t80? I do hope Jagex eventually updates more of the skills and revamping some, because even when I maxed on my iron, most skills were absolutely useless. Woodcutting, agility, dungeoneering etc I just level to max lol

Jagex is in that predicament because they made early game in RS3 a pain, so they keep a shit ton of endgamers and not a lot of newcomers. They need to step back and heavily improve early game and only after that mid game.

I still enjoy early game (primarily on an iron) but what killed it most was MTX. What's the point in spending 30-60mins doing a quest for 10k xp, when you can get that in seconds of MTX lol

Also that, yes.

Some missing pros regarding RS3 is there are a lot of forever items and not just T70 or whatever. For instance, some immensely useful items that we can use forever in the game regardless what levels we are, and we will never outgrow them, include the Infernal Puzzle Box and the Asylum Surgeon Ring. Same goes with some abilities like Dive and Double Surge. The beauty of tierless gear is we will never outgrow them regardless they are level 60, 70, 80 or whatever.

I love that, EverQuest had a lot of items like that! Those are the best.

People downvoting you have never experienced the magic that is Everquest. I got into it finally the past few months after decades of playing runescape (and several years of WOW) and it's an incredibly deep, amazing game.

I agree, but also cons aboug rs3 is the amount of switches needed to min max it, needing 3 set of rings shouldnt be a thing

I did put (this can be both a pro and con) on the first point. Skills going to 120 in the games environment is definitely a pro though, if the only achievement was 99s, the game would be boring real fast outside of bossing, honestly every skill going to 120 would help the health of the game. But I agree that RS3 struggles with early and mid game content, which is why it aims to get you to the end-game faster. (and also leads to one of the cons of having endgame syndrome).

I'd say it's the other way around tbh, the pace of the game naturally increased with faster methods and MTX which meant early/mid game content was mostly pointless to make, as players would spend such a small amount of time in it.

\> That's where OSRS shines best and most recently with the rat boss, zombie axe and warped trident, they bridge the gap. For new players, such as myself, this isn't really true, lol. I have no idea what any of that is, there's no guidance to teach me what they are, I don't know the best methods to get there, and how to progress towards those things. As a true new player, the weakness of both games is information. There's a huge disconnect, to the point that experienced players don't even know how to communicate with new players. I've tried asking for advice, but it often gets downvoted, and people speak to me with language I don't even understand, lol. And then get told "Just check the wiki!" - wiki's are good if you know what to look up and already have a gameplan plotted out. The hard part is knowing what to search and how to plan on getting there. For example, if I simply wanted to "work on mining", it will then lead me to needing to level up other things to make the appropriate tools, or focusing on money making, which will also distract to focus on other skills. Then will hit a wall where quests need to be done to progress. Then the way you're even playing is likely not even close to being optimal, and your money making methods are lacking, meaning you're progressing far slower than you should. Then comes questioning if you're even on the right path? Did I even need to level this skill if I could just buy the tools I needed? Should I have even bothered at all with this skill, or just focused on something better for money making? Is this really progressing me towards endgame? Will I be able to participate in any of the true content that people actually play with this? Hell, I don't even know how to TRAVEL PROPERLY, and the training guides on the wiki don't help with that when you don't know how to get to the area you need to be, which leaves you navigating a maze. Then you get told "Oh you need everything just work on everything!"... Uhh yeah, lol. If I'm going to work on everything, I'd rather do it with a plan that would allow me to play viable content hundreds of hours earlier, to be able to actually participate in game. It can be quite discouraging, and I still don't know what the hell I'm going for (in RS3 or OSRS), but I'm just pushing through until it clicks one day. I do wish I had a better idea of what I was going for, and a better understanding of what to look forward to, though.

>I have no idea what any of that is, there's no guidance to teach me what they are, I don't know the best methods to get there, and how to progress towards those things. It is true because it's good game design. Do you want an NPC shouting out in the starting area (Lumbridge), about a new boss you can defeat and then show you a glowing path on how to get there? Because RS3 does this and imo, is bad design. When I made my fresh iron in 2022, I decided to just go with the tutorial again to see if I missed anything (also since I didn't play when arch & M&S rework came out). It takes you all around Burthorpe and Taverly, then tells you to get onto a ship to the Archaeology digsite, which I did. So I've just spent an hour all around the starter area, then the game takes you far away to a place you don't know lol >As a true new player, the weakness of both games is information. There's a huge disconnect, to the point that experienced players don't even know how to communicate with new players. I think this is the problem with modern day gamers lol You need to be told everything, you need to know what's best. You can't just play the game. Why does your money making need to be optimal? Why does it matter if your progress is slower than others? The important thing is to have fun through learning a new game.

\> Do you want an NPC shouting out in the starting area (Lumbridge), about a new boss you can defeat and then show you a glowing path on how to get there? No, but I am in disagreement with the comment of it being "good game design" in either case, because you're talking about a different subject and presenting your question as choosing one or the other (OSRS or RS3) while I think both of these games share a game design flaw (which I was referring to in my post). While in one aspect I agree, a world with so many possibilities to explore is great and a positive in game design. But I would also say that for it to be GOOD game design, it would be designed it in a way that left you anticipating what is coming in the future. Something to look forward to. A carrot on a stick. Anticipation is best used in any sort of open/sandboxy game that has many paths for the players to find. (I actually saw a game design Vlog about this very subject lately in regards to a discussion about Palworld's design). As long as you have that carrot on the stick, it gives people the incentive to participate in the world and a reason to push through with a clear goal in mind, often times subconsciously to the player. As of right now, I have NO IDEA what to even expect from the game. I don't have much reason to keep pushing on. No idea of what content might be fun. No idea about any bosses. No idea what optimal gearing is going to be like. No cool rewards I'm looking forward to. Just... Confusion. What I really need is to see something that will help me build some goals. The example you presented was one extreme or the other. RS3 might show you exactly where to go, but it has a weakness in game design in the same way, as it doesn't give you things to look forward to, or a way to create those goals. And having a goal is key to enjoyment in open-ended games, even games with traditional game design in the 80's followed this rule. \> I think this is the problem with modern day gamers lol I've been gaming for nearly 40 years, lol. My favorite MMO ever is Asheron's Call, and a game like Elden Ring is one of my favorite modern games. I'm no stranger to games that don't hold your hand. That's not really the problem here. It's that I'm playing without purpose, without anything to look forward to, which leaves little to become excited by. \> Why does your money making need to be optimal? Why does it matter if your progress is slower than others? The important thing is to have fun through learning a new game. To answer the first two questions, it's because I want to be able to get to the statement at the end there. Runescape is a heavily progression based game, but it's hard to find that addictive hook in ANY progression based game until there's a goal to progress towards. That's obviously where the fun is going to be in this sort of game - finding goals and working towards them, feeling that sense of achievement, etc. That part is missing, and I'd like to get to the point where the ball is rollling enough and I have a basic understanding to the point that I can start actively doing that. If we compare it less to progression based games, and more like exploration based games, that also presents problems, as the world has locks all over the place and exploration seems to be gated in a tangle of different threads. Anyway, I hope that makes more sense.

My friend played RuneScape since the classic days and finally convinced me to play in around 2008 ish after the initial enjoyment of exploring in a new game wore off I started, asking him how to do things, and he kept telling me to go look online for the information. (Tip.it) For a while it got to the point that no matter what I searched for I’d end up down 2-3 more rabbit holes. Reading more than I actually played. Even to this day whenever I play I keep half a dozen tabs open on my other monitor and if I do any content I haven’t seen in a while I do a quick to see if I remember things. Only thing I go in blind anymore is quests now that they no longer design quests so I randomly need 2 planks and some soft clay half way though forcing me to drop everything and go fetch a few random cheap trade-able items I may or may not have in my bank.

Haha, I'm at the point where I regularly have to not only search out a couple random items, but I have no idea how or where to get them and have to look them all up individually :P

Part of that is cause early game is to get max, mid game is learning bosses and late game is creating ironman to repeat the game with low lvl gear/or moving to osrs xD

> How do you keep the game flowing but try and release mid-game content without players just swizzing past it. Jagex can do this by expanding skills to 120 so that current end game content becomes mid game and we get mid game content. But I agree that progression is way too fast in RS3 and this sub keeps demanding for it to be sped up while also complaining there is no new content to do because of this.

Well look how fast 120 necro took lol 120 att/str/rng/mage, will just be whizzed past again. Personally why I think elite skills should exist again, to maybe combat the current xp rates. Release new elite skills that match.

Because combat skills have always been fast to train, even after the nerf. Other skills will be slower or more expensive.

Arguably, the the mid-game in RS3 is when you max your account. So you get value out of those lower tier weapons until you can afford/get dropped higher tier ones. It’s a bit artificial to just say that t70 aren’t used for long in RS3, therefore RS3 lacks mid-game content.

Saying maxing is mid-game is probably the problem with the game lol >So you get value out of those lower tier weapons until you can afford/get dropped higher tier ones. Getting value is questionable. Just for instance in my iron, someone who can't use MTX, I was questioning what's the point of spending a fair bit of time smithing a new t30/40/50/60 gear set (aside from the weapon), when I could go from level 30 to 70 within hours. During my time, I met a lot of new, and I mean, actually new players to RS and they're always your generic "I have 500m, I'm in the best t85/90 gear I can", and all what's left for them to do next is just grind out for an arbitrary number of wealth to eventually buy a t95.

I think you're drastically over simplifying the gear progression from mid to late game. Yes, I do think that the developers should find a way to make the mid-game more engaging. But they probably won't. It's just to easy to gain the required xp, and that's not going to change. With regards to your smithing example. It seems that the best course is to grind out a couple of gear sets, maybe just one or two armor upgrades from 30-70, but maybe 3 or 4 weapon upgrades. Do that before smashing through the combat levels "in a couple hours." That way you don't need to halt what you're doing. So let's say you get to level 99 in all combat skills. You honestly won't have made that much money. You likely revo'd your way to your 99's, so you're probably bad at combat and can't boss. So they have a lot to learn in terms of getting value out of their gear. They also won't have best in slot perks. They won't have bis armor. They won't have bis jewelry. In fact, some of that jewelry might be locked behind quests. So there is going to be a lot for them to do. The PvM game doesn't even start until you have get at least t70/t80, and never stops. As someone who has had 500m, 99's in everything, and though my cywir wand and orb were the shit, I can say that I was definitely mid game even if I thought I was end game.

its just because rs3 sucks dick at the end of the day

Thank you for your feedback

You forgot rs3 has cheaper rs gf’s.

buying gf 10k

You can't ed8, but due to relatively recent updates we've gotten up to ed4

Wasn't there a free long time Rsgf in OSRS? :p Well, not anymore? Seems like she stopped streaming in December with many other OSRS streamers.

I play both games (took a break from OSRS recently, it just burned me out) but, despite the fact that RS3 is up shit creek at the moment and I am terribly disappointed by RS3's dev team and RS3's management, it's still the game that I prefer to OSRS. I am employed. I have other hobbies. I have a family, a husband. There are other games I like to play. RS3 is faster than OSRS, and while RS3's dailyscape might make a person feel like it's a chore, no one is forcing you to do them - I just do sandstone, challenges, vis wax and check my farm. That's 10-15 mins of gameplay. OSRS, however...if you want to get somewhere - or at least to a point where you can engage in the most fun content in the game - there's a stupid amount of grinding required prior to that, basic skilling makes the game feel like a full-time job. I don't have that type of time in my life that I can invest in *one* game. One game is MTXscape. The other one is grindscape. Neither are particularly appealing aspects, but the key difference is that I do not have to participate in MTX. I cannot avoid OSRS devouring my time. I'm getting old. At this point I just want to chill, get my quick dopamine hit of quicker XP gains or some fast-paced combat and then do some gardening or knitting or something lol

> and while RS3's dailyscape might make a person feel like it's a chore Honestly i never felt like i ever had to do them at any point. This is not like WoW or even FFXIV where there is some mandatory progression behind dailys. While i prolly should have done vis vaxes ( im always poor and make stupid decisions ) but when it comes to daily challanges, when i didnt forget about it, i always had 3 of them stacked up but its not like i saved that much time with them and overall i probably didnt even do 100 of them in total since i usually only skill on DXP or when a new boss comes out, im only concentrated on that.

Same. There are days when I just don't feel like doing it, so I just don't do dailies at all. In RS3, I've never really felt "forced" to do content. Sure, there is content that definitely encourages you to do things, such as quests for perma RoV passive and such, but it never felt like I *have to* do things. Gielinor is my oyster, I can choose what to do on my own terms and on my own pace. And because the pace of the game is much faster by default, I get to where I need to be without really trying that much - it feels like I'm advancing organically in this game. Skilling in OSRS is much more fun because of the community. Skilling spots always have people talking. You can chat with complete strangers. I found friends for life while fishing and cooking at Karamja. RS3 feels a bit like a wasteland - the only spots where you can find any level of interaction is the Fort, GE and PvM hub. However, RS3's skilling is chill. In OSRS, I always felt like I'm Eric Andre pulling at the fence and screaming "LET ME IN" when it comes to content that I really want to do. And I can't come in until I spend 300+ hrs leveling up.

> Neither are particularly appealing aspects, but the key difference is that I do not have to participate in MTX. I cannot avoid OSRS devouring my time. The only option you got for OSRS is to play Leagues when it comes out.

There's also the mindset of just not playing for maxing and just playing for fun? OSRS is only really grindy if you're going for max, where you're grinding out slow skills for a few hundred hours. IE you don't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up Runecrafting. 60(lower with boosts) gets you all quest requirements. 65(lower with boosts) gets you all hard diaries. The only other reason to train the skill, is for either elite diaries(mostly time saves, not required), sherlock steps, or if you want to max. Same goes for many other skills. Otherwise, it's the same thing as RS3: Farm bosses, do clues, etc, with more options available due to PvP, minigames, etc being alive.

I think this is one of the biggest points that much of the rs3 community doesn't really understand about Oldschool, and one of the main reasons people think it's so slow or grindy. Don't get me wrong, it is slower but not to the extent people think and the whole game and reward space is designed around that slower pace. In rs3 maxing is a pretty achievable mid-term goal, but in Oldschool it's not a goal that most people even think about. There are so many more smaller mid game goals that actually mean something.

Playing for fun is a gross understatement compared to maxing though. It probably takes the normal player in osrs enough time to get endgame stats in RS3 (something like 20+days in game time) in order to achieve quest cape for all the unlocks. Maxing is nowhere near that level, it’s incomparable. Even getting to priff just for CG takes forever, thats months and months if not a year for a person not spending multiple hours a day grinding. OSRS players are used to this grind time, and as a RS3 player I’m also used to it because I have max master cape, going for 5.8, but most people? it’s too much.

Any advice for ways that newer players could actually get to that point where you could play for fun? There's a ton of videos, but they all approach the game as an experienced player, using language I don't understand, knowing what they're doing, and leaving me more confused than when I went in. And there's no real guidance on how to get to levels of skills that bring you to content that is worth doing, or done with others/socially. It's like, either the new player guides give the VERY BASICS which are easily understood, or they treat you as if you have a PhD in the game and are a nostalgic player who been on for 20 years. No in between! lol. I'm having the same problem with both games. I have a large surplus of time working at a pc/etc, so I'm doing some semi-afk play along the way. But it's been weeks now and I'm no closer to getting over the hurdle of having any sort of real goal.

>I am employed. I have other hobbies. I have a family, a husband. There are other games I like to play I believe this is one major reason why players can't continue to play OSRS for a long time. We are real players, we have IRL obligations, and we have other hobbies and games to play. A bit of unpopular opinion perhaps, there are better games worth playing than RS3 and OSRS. I can't see myself playing either RS3 or OSRS forever when there are newer, more fun and fresh game coming out every few days. However, I can still play and progress with RS3 while I enjoy myself in other games or IRL activities but absolutely can't in OSRS.

RS3 can certainly be time-consuming, maybe even as much as OSRS, but at least it's more afk, and in those cases you *choose* to spend more time. OSRS *requires* you to invest a lot of time into your account before you can actually do something. Sure, it's the same in RS3, but the time you need to get to that "this is it, I can start doing XYZ" place is far less in RS3 than OSRS. This is why I took a break from OSRS - after reaching 99 prayer I just felt like I finished a marathon. I felt that sense of accomplishment, but I felt more tired than accomplished. Now I mostly just afk Archeology or cut some bamboos while I play Baldur's Gate 3 lol

Rest assured, if you want to get trimmed comp, golden Warden, max Runescores among all achievements, it will take forever because there will be always new quests, skills, achievements coming out weekly. I am not this kind of perfectionist though. I like the classic concept of MMORPG with persistent world progression and living and breathing stories. To me maxed, comp and other things are just nice to have. I like the forever items like Infernal Puzzle Box, Asylum Surgeon Ring, Pontifix Shadow Ring etc we can get at low level. I like these tierless forever items and never-ending stories concept of RS3. Literally, I treat RS3 as a smaller, causal part, of my life similar to a seasonal TV series or a novel, instead of a grindy 8 hour a day job.

That's precisely the reason why Runescape is the only MMORPG I play. I tried other ones - the big names on the market - but they just feel... empty. Void. I am a huge lorehound, quests and stories in this game is the reason why RS is so appealing to me. I'd sell a limb to erase my memory and experience The World Wakes, Children of Mah, Fate of the Gods or City of Senntisten+EGWD story arc all over again. RS's quests are something else. They are the gold standard of questing in MMORPGs. Complex, intricate, not some fetch quests like in FFXIV or "Kill X things" in WoW. Other MMORPGs just don't scratch that itch the way RS does. I have MQC on my main, but I have a HCIM that's halfway to MQC, and experiencing these quests again is like re-reading a good book in my library.

>One game is MTXscape. The other one is grindscape. Neither are particularly appealing aspects, but the key difference is that I do not have to participate in MTX. I cannot avoid OSRS devouring my time. Fucking this. I play both games and you hit it on the nail. Rs3 mtx is ENTIRELY optional and alot of cosmetics do find themselves on the grand exchange. Osrs is extremely slow paced for leveling, without spending tens, to hundreds of mils of extraordinary xp rates. The grind for levels on rs3 is far more enjoyable compared to osrs's grind for levels. And the combat on rs3 is also far more intricate in which every action you take and ability you use genuinely feels impactful. The combat on osrs does have difficulty in it, and sadly, most of the difficulty comes from the game being tick based, and abusing that system, whether it be prayer flicking or otherwise. You dont FEEL the ticks on rs3 due to the global cooldowns and semi-recent player movement rework (unless you're playing on a heavily over-populated world). That being said, what makes me end up hating osrs, is the attitude the players have towards RS3. Its pathetic and deplorable. Not to mention the amount of toxicity there is on osrs, especially when it comes to different account types.

I agree I have limited time and the fastest xp and more rewards per level make rs3 more satisfying whereas I've been afking fishing for 20kxp for hour in osrs for weeks and have only gained 5 levels. Honestly the perfect game for me would be rs3 content and xp rates with osrs combat, obviously this will never happen.

Basically my take. I already played OSRS back when it was Runescape Classic and Runescape2. I have no desire to go through that grind again.

so, basically an old whale? l2pk

I agree

Training in general is suffering, it's just that in RS3 there's options to have it run in the background while you're doing other things. Both games need actively fun ways to get exp from the get-go.

Is this how based enjoyers of both games look like? How to harness such power?

If you become insane enough you create logical content (and memes)

Oh trust me I am this close of snapping and losing my shit. Trying to find a job that's not modern age slavery feels impossible.

LPT from someone in their 30's who swapped jobs a bunch. There is no perfect job. Just less awful. Use the money you get from your job to pursue your hobbies and find happiness that way. Or just buy keys and make the happy chemicals in your brain fire off lol.

From my experience down here, office jobs are usually good. We have employment laws and tend to be treated as humans. Just that feels like every company wants the unicorn candidate, the one that fits all requirements, including their desired pay range. Like bro get real

You do it by not bandwagoning for either subreddits and form your own independent opinion instead.

Weakwilled players complain about the other version of the game. Chadass players sit down, shut up, get the XP drops. I've recently returned to finish off the last two skills since Invention release and its been plenty entertaining so far, while AFKing 99s on OSRS. We're in these game for the long haul no matter what and the dopamine drops won't let us leave.

The RS3 list is addressed *significantly* when you view it from an Ironman perspective (except for the event stuff). I'm increasingly convinced that it is the best way to play these days.

Yeah but playing the solo-mode in an MMO shouldn’t be the best way to play. It’s contradictory to the experience. Ironman solves a lot of problems but it shouldn’t be the solution, it should be the optional mode it was meant to be This isn’t me bashing Ironman mode, just that the solution to the problems of rs3 shouldn’t be “never interact with players aside from chatting”

Nope, you're absolutely right! Unfortunately, the wisdom of time has basically beaten the concept of "find your own fun" into my head at this point, and it's pretty clear that not much is going to change on the other front.

There isn't much player interaction in Rs to begin with. If I ask a friend to start playing RS with me, what are we going to do?

Ironman mode isn't solo mode, it's self sufficient mode If you took the average ironman and the average main I bet you the ironman participates in more group content and is more likely to be involved in an active community

Thats probably true, my point is that modes that restrict how you play shouldn’t be seen as the fix for the game. They should fix the actual game

The problem with rs3 ironman is consumable bloat - and it seems like OSRS is slowly heading in that direction. You can ignore it, but some people won't pvm with you due to the dps loss. if you want to PVM efficiently as an iron on rs3, you need: * clue scroll items to charge your EoF (amulet) * divine charges collected via divination to power your weapons and armor. * special arrows that are basically a 1:1 prep/pvm time investment * pages to charge a silly book you keep in your pocket, obtained from specific bosses * repair patches for your unaugmented armor, which are a huge pain in the ass * auras need to be off cooldown. Worst system in the game. * archaeology relics need to be swapped for combat ones. This costs chronotes every time you change them, which is another significant time investment. Eventually you'll be required to go past 200m in the skill just to keep pvming. * Ectoplasm and necrotic runes obtained through noncombat rituals and runecrafting in order to use necromancy abilities. * elder overload variants which are the single most complicated and annoying potion to make, which was only made worse with the release of necromancy. * you need to make sure your anachronia totems are active for buffs to your summoning familiar durations. * install the right animals in your player-owned farm so you get the proper damage bonus from your farm totems. * have duplicate gear available so you can use the ideal invention perks for certain bosses, like undead slayer, demon slayer, and dragon slayer. There's still so much more. This is just the shit I thought of while typing this post. I have a maxed rs3 iron and I just gave up on pvming with anyone outside my clan. If it can't be done with barebones prep then I don't do it.

TheRSGuy pulverized all solo bosses with his HCIM with basic Necromancy gear. Raph made guides with T90 or lower Necromancy gear too. We don't really have much use of auras and chronnotes as relic powers are pretty standard with Necromancy. Of course no repair patches needed for the non-degradable Necromancy gear. Necromancy is very IM friendly.

Yep - and that is why I actually enjoy PVM now. Ectoplasm needs another source, but necrotic runes are fine as they are *if* you don't have to worry about 20 other things. They need to rework the other styles, not just in terms of crit damage and power scaling up to 120, but also it terms of maintenance cost.

Ironman mode on RS3 definitely has a larger pro list than con list than the normal experience!

You can tell by the updates from osrs that they're focused on improving the ironman experience. There was actually a lot of underwhelming reactions to the zombie axe on streams initially, because it was useless to them and "just an ironman weapon". That was quickly overdriven because it just makes sense that if an ironman is going to have an easier time obtaining this stepping stone of a weapon, so is a regular account. I really really hope rs3 mods will get this in their brain eventually. They have started designing updates around the idea that it should take too much effort and time for an ironman to do, simply to hold their value - *because ironmen chose this path and they shouldn't complain about it*. In reality, irons are the ones that play your game through and through the most. If they aren't willing to participate in the update, why should anyone else? The only thing this type of mindset attracts is bots and bugs to skip the grind. Thankfully we're not so bot-ridden like osrs, but yes there are absolutely still people botting.

In a way, various rs3 skills are patched to be "relevant" at high levels in a sort of artificial manner. Farming has the pen perks for having elder animals in pens, firemaking has being able to run multiple incenses at once, smiting has armor spikes or something, fletching has... untradeable superior scrimshaws or something? Archeology was built in with various high level relic powers. That creates pressure to max, and conveniently xp rates are high so it doesn't take as long as on osrs, and as such one can't win 100% approval

As someone who is maxed on rs3 and is just starting high level pvm in osrs i agree with basically all of this. Both are good games but very different.

Outside of bots I think all other OSRS cons are actually its charm. I think thats how an old school mmorpg is supposed to be. Everything else in the list is accurate.

Alt1 is much more than a clue solver, while it’s not runelite it really helps alot with AFKs and in-game notifications.

I def miss all the mini games being packed with rs3. I’ve considered an old school alt just for this reason lmao

After maxing an iron man on both games, I can safely say this list is incredibly accurate. Nicely done.

I was making a pros and cons list like this myself, but I don't think I'll live long enough to make it to late-game in OSRS so I can't compare them fairly enough to make my list public.

all your osrs cons is why im a osrs player lol. Having an equal grindy ground as other osrs players, it brings me feelings of accomplishment when achieving something. No one in osrs can open treasure hunter chests to give themselves bonus xp and base xp, everyone has to grind it manually.  Your list is fun to reflect on 

Everything I listed in cons are quality of life issues or physically things that don't put you on an equal ground per say though? Botting? Erm. I don't think I need to say more. Not being able to AFK most things just means you're only able to play the game actively, for the vast majority of people, that's a handicap on time (which leads into the grind/time consuming point, anyone with more time to actively play is on a better playing field) Runescape also isn't a competitive game, your experience is rarely affected by the account of another player, so outside of Leagues, that's really not important. I also listed MTX as a con on RS3, not sure why you felt the need to point that out, but alright. QOL would be the same for any person if it was added, so that doesn't make sense either.

yes thats why i play osrs haha. We dont keybind shortcuts to gain xp in osrs

Right, but Runelite letting you swap what the left-click option is when blackjacking and letting you position the camera in a way that you don't have to move the mouse for maximum xp isn't the same thing?

it is the same thing, its sad jagex allows this

You know...TH was never an option for rs2 when it came out, and its made the game significantly worse for me over the years. If by chance it does bleed into osrs, and they make a new ososrs will you continue playing the current version of osrs? I have a strong irk that it will happen, but when is the question. 

TH made me quit rs3, if TH happenes again in osrs i will most likely quit 

If they came out with another version of osrs without MTX again, would you pick it back up, or try again? RS3 isnt looking healthy like it used to, and I do wonder from time to time what will happen to the company overall to pay back their investors if most of the whales leave.

yea,  i would even play rs3 if they removed TH. I agree with you with the state of rs3 and about how mtx might happen to osrs, its a sad situation 

I usually don't agree with these kinds of 'comparison charts' but this is well written. Nicely done OP

I appreciate the time and effort put into this list. Great job!

I’ll always enjoy both 🤷‍♂️

I must say that the difficulties in traveling and inventory management only add more fun to my OSRS gameplay. I hate how I often find myself stuck mostly in the War Retreat in RS3.

A MASSIVE con for RS3 is how little they value their Ironmen players. They have admitted to not keeping Ironmen in mind much at all when designing any content, and while the point of Ironmen is to solve the "regular" game with limitation, some things are just ridiculous without some QoL changes aimed at them. I feel like I am not nearly as screwed over as an OSRS Ironman, but it's also obvious that they are getting far more love given how many game modes they've gotten. Let me just clarify, I don't think RS3 should necessarily increase any XP rates for Ironmen or make the game much easier for them, but in some cases the grind for a skill can get many times longer simply because it has been designed with the Grand Exchange in mind and not having the player collect materials themselves. One of the most egregious "anti-ironmen" moves they ever did, in my opinion, was make it so the PoF animals lost happiness and hunger even when fully grown. For a mainscape account that's no real big deal since they can easily buy food for any animal on the grand exchange, but it's not as easy with some animals as an ironman. Zygomites come to mind, given the limited amount of mushrooms you get per mushroom run (only two patches) and how many mushrooms are needed for two full pens to do their entire growth. Not everyone can log in daily to check on their stuff either, so being punished for having a life outside the game feels bad. Yes, I am aware of Mort Myre Fungus and the Arc Mushrooms, but they still require a substantial time input just to make up for the fact you couldn't log in on the right day to check your Zygomites. And this is just one of the examples of where it feels like they actively disregard a portion of their playerbase, which OSRS doesn't really seem to do in the same vain. I could be wrong though, of course.

So , pro for RS3 is it has skill progression to 120, giving it a longer grind than osrs 99. But a con to osrs is it being grindy and time consuming?

Good list Your first ‘pro’ for RS3 however is probably my biggest gripe with the game. They’re intentionally making a 2nd monitor game and relying on people’s addiction keeping them around rather than them enjoying the game. The whole game is high level pvm or 2nd monitor

As a die-hard OSRS player who initially quit RuneScape after Evolution of Combat, I’ve tried a couple times to come back to RS3 and I just can’t. The aggressive microtransactions, the clunky and busy UI, I just… Man, I REALLY want to like RS3, but I can’t play for more than a minute without getting bombarded by so much UI and stuff that it renders it incomprehensible and I just quit

Over the past couple years I've returned and have played both versions. I tend to agree with your listings here, I find that I enjoy OSRS a good bit more but RS3 is still fun if you are playing just for a good time. If you fall into the MTX trap or get overwhelmed trying to achieve everything, it gets to be too much.

It might not sound like much of a con, but the amount of free teleports in RS3 (mainly lodestones) feels like a detriment to me, especially after trying out OSRS. Going places in OSRS is pretty interesting and fun in the early game, and unlocking more teleports through game progression is really satisfying. Not having lodestones would make doing lots of cluescrolls in a row more annoying without replacement teleports, and a lot of infinite teleport items have been added over the years that would basically replace lodestones but would be more annoying about it because you have to fish an item out of your bank first. I don't think there's a good solution to this problem.

Yeah I would put transportation being completely trivialized in rs3 in the cons list I hate war's retreat and the max guild that proceeded it more than anything, completely removed getting to bosses and I hate that

To your point about clue scrolls, efficient clue scrolling really doesn't use lodestones at all. Rather you just have an inventory full of teleport items. Knowing what teleport gets you closest to your clue step is a huge part of being efficient and has more or less been solved by the community.

Using someone else's PoH is OSRS's version of lodestones.

Good list, but imo the 120 skills thing is absolutely a con

Runescape 3 would more than likely be dead without 120s. Definitely not a con to expand a game to have more content when a majority of the game population has a max cape. It creates a good bridge between people who just want to max and people who would grind to max xp. It's a middle ground and gives you something to show for it, whether it's the 120 cape or more content if the skill has been physically expanded.

DG has always been a 120 con but Slayer/Farming honestly made a lot of sense to have a higher cap. Releasing yet another level 99 slayer monster or herb patch would feel redundant, with little to no value to it.

Sure, but at that point you are only benefitting veteran players to the detriment of new players. Stuff like this is why it’s so hard for new players to last long in this game.

Having more content to aim for is not the reason new players don't last in the game. Poor early game experience is.

It's not when xp rates are too high. Increasing the level cap will fix this.

They’re not too high. My highest skill is 101 crafting and that shit took ages.

I'd like to just throw some clarification on "Most skills are essentially useless" under RS3 cons. By this I meant that a lot of skills can pretty much be bypassed and not used unless it's for a quest requirement or something similar. Most things are widely available by trade or simply are irrelevant content (and the effort to create them usually outweighs the cost to just buy them). Old School also suffers in a similar fashion with Smithing as it has not been reworked, and in terms of weapons and armor, by the time you're able to smith the gear, you have no use for it anymore (in normal account progression).

both games suffer from this, except for construction in osrs which is very relevant but most other skills are pretty useless late game. This is a huge reason why people like ironman mode so much

Most osrs 99's take longer than any rs3 skill to 120.

If you're not an iron, and also rich, then maybe.

I'd have to disagree. Skills like Agility, Thieving, and Smithing are about the only ones I would agree with that on. Combat (aside from Necromancy) is significantly slower than it used to be, I'd say 120 is pretty similar to 99, but pretty much every other skill takes longer to get to 120 (in a general play sense, obviously if you are using keys, stacking buffs, and playing on double xp, it's going to be faster. In an ironman environment, almost every 120 takes longer.)

From an Ironman perspective to both games: Adding to that, even with the Smithing rework, I found RS3 smithing to 99 to be a lot slower than OSRS with Giants Foundry. Also, MLM trivializes a lot of the grind due to the XP rates and the ores/rewards you can essentially afk. Smelting is obviously slower, and running back and forth instead of stacking porters does take more time.

If you're talking pure IM sense, then even still I'd say some RS3 skills are faster, not similar. For example, using your herblore example, they both take about the same time to 99 if you have it banked so OSRS would be faster vs RS3's 120, but the main time sink comes from banking it in the first place. RS3 has more farming yield : herb run, faster KPH on trash for herb drops/secondaries, buffs from things like DG/outfits, dailies like jack of trades or daily challenges, weeklies via lost grove, etc. That significantly speed up the grind even if the xp/hr is comparable in the best-case scenario. For ranged, OSRS can get better xp/hr or comparable rates post nerf, but that's after sinking 80-100+ hours hunting chins, where as on RS3 you don't need nearly as many as you only throw them on auto attacks, so you consume significantly less/hr. so on so forth.

Oh yeah fishing 100% is slow in both games is osrs is faster to 1-99 than it is to 120 in rs3 cause xp rates have basically only doubled-tripled(without bxp) for the skill 

Well, yeah. The longest part is opening the chests in TH.

If I was to add one more CON to RS3, it would be "Pips".

To be fair… he’s running both games.

I personally don't see "more afk" as a positive. I'd rather see people actually playing the game rather than being completely absent, it makes the already low populated game feel even more lonely. I also think there are some contradictions, Oldschool is grindier/more time consuming, but that's part of the reason that there is more sense of accomplishment. The faster progression in rs3 makes a lot of the game feel pointless or just there to quickly skip you to end game imo.

Most people playing RS3 play the game for the availability. The vast majority of players are people who play while they work or do something else and socialize when they have the time. Without the AFK aspects and lesser grinds, RS3 would be dead. The average player doesn't have the time to trim comp like yourself, at least not in any reasonable period of time. OSRS and FFXIV are the games I choose to play when I actually want to play an MMO. I rarely spend time anymore playing RS3 for hyperactive content. 

To me that's as a result of flawed game design. Some low effort content is fine, but if the game isn't fun enough to be actually engaged in most of the time, then it suggests there's a problem with the gameplay. I have definitely abused the afk methods in this game (which are often some of the faster methods too), but it has taken away a lot of the sense of accomplishment imo.

I do not feel unaccomplished at all. It took me from 2001-2018 to max my first account, and I didn't max my 9hp pure until this year and I have yet to max my ironman I've had since launch of the mode. Perhaps not playing only a normal account would help you. Nothing wrong with the game. It simply exists still because of that exact game structure. (the MTX and early game experience are the main problem of why it doesn't keep or gain players very well, and the MTX is the reason people feel unaccomplished, because you feel that devalues it because "you could have just used keys" or something. 

Oh I've played an iron too, started in 2021 and pretty close to max. Just missing a few skills that I didn't really need for anything, so I never rushed to finish and haven't played it in a while now. I had a great time playing it for a while, but I still feel the same about general game progression. I also feel ironman gear/combat progression is in a bit of a rough spot atm with Necromancy streamlining it so much.

However I will agree the sense of accomplishment is higher on Old school, but Runescape 3 in general is easier to have fun playing and is much more accessible once you get past the poor entry section of the game, in my opinion. 

Only thing id add is osrs has an insane dependency on prayer flicking and one shot mechanics, which in opinion makes pvm very stale.

I agree with everything except, I do not agree that skills in OSRS are useful for mains since pvming in OSRS drop too many tradeable skilling supplies, so mains can get access to these with gpscape. I think RS3 does this principle better with untradeable skilling unlocks for pvming locked behind skilling, like overloads, bonfire boosts, Arch relics, Invention perks, and many more. RS3 also tries to take skilling items off of pvm drop tables too. And bonds are OSRS MTX.

For OSRS: That's not really true though. There are so many important PVM unlocks that require skills and/or quests/activities/minigames to unlock or make. Ferocious Gloves, Torso, Faceguard, Barrows Gloves, Defenders, etc. All of those quest items require skills to get. For RS3: More of the end-game content is useful in the more recent skills yes, but outside of that, they really aren't. ​ "basically no microtransactions" implies there is one. Hardly a microtransaction in the way everything in RS3 is. On old school they are physically just used as 14 day membership supplement.

RS3 has skill requirements for quests and minigames on top of untradeable skilling unlocks while OSRS only has the former. OS bonds also give free name changes too.

Rs2 was by far the best version of the game and I say that specifically because of several updates that happened as late as 2011. In recent years OSRS has done very good however at adding in most of those areas of content. To me Runescape 3 has way better quality of life and quests. What I think makes OSRS still end up the better of the two however is that it is not an overly complex game that seems unfriendly to people who do not have hours and weeks to learn things. I think the best news I ever heard was the return of Defender of Varrock and Land Of The Goblins to OSRS. Now I’m excited to see While Guthix Sleeps. I hope they follow the trend and add Nomad’s Requiem and The Void Stares Back. I think if they can pull that off it would be like living in the true peak of Runescape again.

If anything runelite would be a con, the fact you need a third party to properly play osrs is a huge con, i dont know why you count that as a pro.

People ask for RuneLite features every day in this sub. Access to 3rd party apps is a pro that would make RS3 a lot better for regular players and content creators alike

I heard RS3 has more variety in skilling training methods. Also a lot of cool content unique to RS3

> Many skills are very useful even on a normal account Idk about that one. You can easily get by just leveling for nothing but the quest requirements and ignore most skills in OSRS after that on a main, meanwhile all new skills in RS3 are something that progresses your account and something you cant just buy off of GE. Like you can buy any herblore potion which you cant in RS3. Slayer, Construction, Agility ( not for good reasons ) are more utilized in OSRS but the rest is pretty debateable considering OSRS doesnt really have untradeable unlocks ( overload, custom fit mw, superior auras, etc ) > Most minigames/activities/group bosses are very active I think this is a bit underselling it and could use a rephrase. Its that way because account progression is a lot slower so content stays relevant for a lot longer ( so not necessarily because they are better content and people like it ) , not to mention its longer because unlike in RS3 where camping one style is very viable so you can just main one style while OSRS wants you to have switches because accuracy is a lot more relevant. Honestly i never bothered doing dailys and with xp rates being the way they are ( outside of them ), they are pretty missable, its not like WoW where it hinders your progression if you arent doing it. Also i would say its extremely hard to get into either game because there are so many ways to train, there are "shortcuts" to make your life easier, none of which either new player will know. I would argue its worse in OSRS because of traveling. A new member will not know that there are spirit trees, fairy rings, house portals or how much time agility will save in the long run. This is partly why the wiki shines, because people are regularly using it and as a new ironman you can still learn a bunch of new methods even if you played the game since rs2 came out. I would say OSRS has a lot of skill ceiling to its combat. I remember when WGS came out back in the day and when we duo-d tormented demons we started off with only being able to kill 2 to killing 30+ over time with little gear changes. I dont usually get 5x better in any other game over time. Good list either way

You can't buy overloads (at least with GP), graceful, many gear items (Ferocious gloves is one that comes to mind) etc on OSRS either. And the majority of those items also require quests and/or skills to obtain or create. Most of the essential items in the game are actually untradable and have to be earned through combat, questing, or skills. I honestly think RS3 has a much lower ratio of this in general. The only real things I feel I couldn't go without are curses (quests) and overloads (herblore) that I couldn't just buy off the GE (auras don't really count as most of them are obtained through membership time currency).

Rs3 120s aint longer grinds than osrs 99.

Another con I had in osrs that I never experienced in rs3 is lurers, once you hit a certain kind of equipment you will be lured on a daily and it's so annoying.

On our OSRS con list, you mention that traveling is inconvenient, but I actually found that era of the game to be better. I remember unlocking teleports by magic levels feeling very rewarding when I played my original character 2002-2010. I remember unlocking the cave to go beneath white wolf mountain, unlocking canafis, etc. To me, those felt like significant milestones of character progression. When I played OSRS on release, I felt the same way as I leveled my character and hit the same bench marks. I have three alt accounts on RS3, and the modern progression does not feel as meaningful. You go to a lodestone once and ta-dah!, you have access to that area permanently at the low cost of waiting for a teleport animation. I feel RS3 convenience has in many regards minimized sense of progression for early levels of the game, and I did not get the same sense of progression until later on by unlocking invention, hitting certain slayer level milestones, etc. I am not saying RS3 is entirely bad here - its obvious why they did this to attract new players, but I thought it was an interesting experience as a veteran player with several accounts that I could share.

I feel like the first time you unlock these things it feels good but the longer you play they become a nuisance, just being able to use lodestones feels better. same with a tool belt at first it feels good to need all the farming equipment to go on a farm run but then after a while its gets annoying especially if you forget something and have to run to the bank.

Why would you ever run to a bank for your farming equipment when every patch has a tool leprechaun that has everything you'd need? And I disagree with the teleporting stance. A big problem in RS3 is that the game world feels small, and that's simply because you get teleports to literally everywhere almost as soon as you start via lodestones, simple jewlery, etc. OSRS also gets to the point where there's teleports literally everywhere, but that's after you put work into your account so these small QoL rewards add up over and over, via elite diaries, construction, skillcapes, etc.

Biggest con in osrs is no lodestones. And stamina drain. Made me hate playing it cause if I forgot something. I had to make a 10 minute walk back to get a single item

Lodestones is probably a con for me, same with the player hubs we've all been pushed to recently with the Fort and War's Retreat. Sure they're convenient, but to me it makes the world feel so much smaller, and emptier.

This is definitely something I agree with you on. Toolbelt, Stamina, and Convenient teleports are the top 3 things I miss from RS3. Kind of leads to the "inventory management and travelling" con I put under OSRS.

Hard disagree on the toolbelt. It trivializes tools (why do they even exist if you don't actually use them?) and causes menu bloat. OSRS definitely needs an energy drain rework, though. Higher level agility needs to be significantly more beneficial. If I have 99 agility, I should not need stams in 90% of the situations that currently require them.

Convenience. In a counterpoint, you're wasting 40 bank slots, and 1-6 inventory slots depending on what you're doing just for tools, teleports, and stams/energy pots. It's just bad QOL, not necessarily the solution to create a toolbelt in RS3 capacity, but I personally made a suggestion of a pocket slot item that holds all of the standard tools, but only holds a bronze pickaxe and axe, so you'd still need to grab consumables like bait, thread, or better WC/Mining tools, but you'd never run for a whole quest or activity and go "shit, I forgot a my hammer and pickaxe", and have to teleport back and run for 5 minutes again.

> It trivializes tools (why do they even exist if you don't actually use them?) OSRS just got barbarian farming. It's basically a toolbelt for seed dipper without calling it a toolbelt.

Yeah. I don't like it, but at least it makes sense thematically. In rs3 I just pull a whole fishing rod straight outta my ass and magically fish without bait...

In what universe can you stuff 28 whole great white sharks in one backpack?

We already can pull a entire cannon out of our ass, so why not a fishing rod?

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I think its a double edged sword topic. Not actually familiar with RS3 ironman, only OSRS, but i would guess thanks to XP rates you still blitz through a lot of older weapons, meanwhile in OSRS a rune scimmy or d scimmy will be your friend for a while and you have a lot more gradual, meaningful upgrades I definitely wouldnt call it more streamlined tho, when chances are, you are skipping past so many weapons. Hell your first weapon could literally be a t80 weapon with a chaotic. Its only streamlined for Necro and perhaps melee thanks to smithing rework, after that tho there are dozen weapons you could choose from.

As someone that's played OSRS for a few years drifting in the nostalgia, and started trying out RS3 with an ironman just recently, the mining/smithing rework does a MAJOR lift towards alleviating that. There's a pretty good chunk of the game where, especially for melee, there's meaningful progression by crafting and upgrading your weapons.

RS3 is a fantastic experience when you play as Ironman, especially HCIM. Doing high enrage PvM on a HCIM is particularly exhilarating.

It honestly brought me a fresh breath coming back to RS3. I preferred OSRS to RS3 until I made my HCIM, and can say I absolutely enjoy my RS3 experience more than on my OSRS HCIM, not that I find anything wrong with the OSRS experience. Take away MTX and a player economy and RS3 hurdles ahead in my opinion.

120 in all skills in RS3 is still faster than 99 in all skills in OSRS. also OSRS has group pvm such as TOB and many populated worlds for TOA/TOB where people find teams and gather at one place; something that is unexistent in RS3. Group PVM in RS3 is mid level content like kerapac, elite dungeons which if you're going into a group with those given the current prices you're likely to have a split lower than 4 way avernic at TOB in price equivalence. AOD can be done solo and duo and Vorago as well. No content requires you to group PVM. Even Solak got solo-scaled and Mazcab raids can be done with less than 5 people for Yakamaru and solo Beastmaster instead of 10 people like on release. Game is beyond dead group pvm wise.

I honestly couldn't care less about group pvm, I absolutely hate NEEDING to fight in groups, it's the only thing I truly don't like about FFXIV and OSRS. I don't want to group up with randoms or rely on a group of people to do content. Even there I disagree RS3 doesn't have group content, only sweaty PVMers can solo high tier end game bosses. Most players can't. 

Perhaps before necro only "sweaty pvmers can solo". But necromancy really broke the game at every single boss. So I would say if you can't get kills with necro on RS3 you're on the same level as 110 combat that can't get a fire cape. A there's a ton of ressources like PVME discord that actually give you an ability rotation for each encounter. You press a button in a set order to output optimal dps. There's no such thing on OSRS. You can't just make a TOA 500 guide and tell people where to click. You can tell someone how to do a butterfly at akkha. But you can't teach the person how to stay in cycle after a skip or move quadrants while staying in cycle or adjust if you missclicked and black orbs spawn. You have to come up with that skill on your own.

Don't need guides for OSRS, Runelite tells you where to stand Necro doesn't magically make it so anyone can solo Telos, Zamorak and Solak, get out of here with that toxic elitist bullshit.

Runelite does not tell you where to stand. "you don't guides for OSRS": Wazzy chat guiding him through every step of the inferno and using Inferno helper to understand the zuk fight. RS3 player by the way. You're a wiki editor: how come are there OSRS guides on the wiki? LMAO Projectile indicators (like skulls on P2 warden) and prayer indicators are outright banned from runelite. Given that comment I'm pretty sure you're not familiar with PVM on osrs. Coupled with your defensive stance on RS3 I can tell which one you main more. Necromancy made the game super boring and super easy. The amount of people praising necro for getting their first pvm kills is very visible on the RS3 sub if you search by "Necromancy" tag. You don't even need to tribrid/hybrid bosses like you used to. The skill ceiling is so low you can do everything by just camping necromancy and get very good times with minimum effort (compared to juggling between multiple action bars and styles and eofs). Full necro camp almost sub 5 solo solak: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBbPFdtc-s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBbPFdtc-s) Full necro camp P7 skip 1k enrage zamorak: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gXmGEEbtHY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gXmGEEbtHY) Full necro camp 6:58 ED1 run (quicker than an overload sip): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYa3X2ULWUY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYa3X2ULWUY) Full necro camp No food solo vorago green bomb: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo2lYW6wC-0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo2lYW6wC-0) "I just started learning telos" - \*Description\* (Necromancy Telos "EASY" rotation): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD4KDEGhClE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD4KDEGhClE) 4k arch glacor (4 days from 3k to 4k) \*Note: guy clicks his abilities so he's nowhere near the "sweatiest pvmer": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2m4Vqn575o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2m4Vqn575o) I'm far from the only one who thinks Necromancy ruined the game and lowered the skill ceiling for everything. What used to be considered a huge achievement, 4k's are outright just as easy as obtaining an infernal cape if you put in the time. If you don't share that opinion, you have never experienced the end-game of either game and given that you haven't shared anything pros and cons of both games regarding that subject, I would just assume I'm right.

I have not advanced far in OSRS For RS3 disagree with the cons. (Rs3) Player Count is due to the size of the world. Ironman mode exist. Combat System is point and click. It's quite easy to learn. (To master that is a con) The company state has no effect on the game. RS can have 0 updates for a year and still be fine. Name one piece of dead content. Normal trade exist. Ironman mode should be locked out. I don't know how best to do Ulimate/Group Ironman. Which skills are bad? The UI is amazing and great. It's just hard to learn. Runelite is a Mod and thus shouldn't be used to compare games. I cons I do agree with. Cosmetic rewards. Yes Minigames are dead making Achievements very hard. Yes the new player experience sucks. It is in Super need for a update.

I think some of the pros in RS3 is that Fletching is a F2P skill and there's more F2P content compared to OSRS.

RS3 is dead and OS requires too much time for the average adult

You’re missing ‘in my opinion’, a few of these are subjective or seem to be added just to pad out one side.

"of what I believe is good and bad" 🤦

You're missing one major con of OSRS: Parts of the community are EXTREMELY predatory. There's rampant cases of targetted Luring, Ddossing, people will dox, mute (there's some real corrupt pmods there... be warned) or witchhunt you if you're some form of threat or competitor to a service they already run. Edit: Lol at the people downvoting this. There's been tonnes of videos about people being morally unhinged against people that just so much as look at you the wrong way. OSRS has a long list of history (house party groups, duel arena stakers, lurers, bot programmers) that'll break literal laws (e.g., swatting you, calling fake bomb threats under your name) if you caught up on someone being malicious to you. There's groups of pk bots that will literally just scout + harass you if you so much as attacked the wrong account once. There's literal pmod accounts on the rs black market that people use solely to hush others that intend to verbally hinder or harm your business. There's a lot of corrupt sh\*t going on on your every day OSRS experiences that jagex just won't act on.

If you post this in the OSRS Subreddit you'll get mass downvoted for saying RS3 has any pros at all. Anyway I agree with most of this although I much prefer how travel works in OSRS. I hate the entire concept of lodestones.

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Because they are equally ranked positive. I put a lot of work into those >:(

I would consider the "Not a lot of afk options" for the OSRS cons to be one of the pros. If players are not afking then they are attentive to what they are doing making it more likely for players to engage with others and help those who ask for it. On RS3 if you go to an area of people skilling they are mostly AFK and when you ask a question you almost always get ignored. OSRS the probability of getting a reply pertaining to what you asked is insanely higher. Having less AFK options allows for more social interaction with was one of the core aspects of MMO's during the early 2000s sure we will have people reply with "Just join a clan if you want social interaction in RS3" Thing is thats not really the same level of social interaction as finding people randomly and chatting with them keeping you engaged in what you are doing. Clans you know all of the people in it for the most part you know what they like and don't like at times it's more difficult to start conversations and maintain them with clan mates rather than someone completely random you found out and about. You login to F2P or P2P on a populated world on OSRS you could easy say Hello to someone random or have someone randomly come up and say hello to you and start conversations and just have fun and enjoy the game. ====================================================== As for teleports being inconvenient on the OSRS cons I would also say is more of a pro, players having less teleport options overall allowed the OSRS team to revive constructions purpose so it is not dead like it is on RS3 giving players a reason to train it for the bulk amounts of teleports it does have so construction does not end up existing for little to no purpose. Having less teleport options overall makes getting these teleports feel more like an accomplishment. It also creates an incentive for players to open their houses up so other random players on that world can use their house to teleport or the pool for restoring special attack, run, prayer, Health, remove poison etc at times creating social interaction and keeping that core experience at play.

Rs3 has a great community team? Where ? 😂

Doom, Azanna and Hooli are very good with discussing with the community and actually reading suggestions and feedback, as well as making streams. They create surveys just to fix community hitlist concerns. Do you live under a rock?

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"Lots of cool, unique content not in RS3" You might wanna double-check that statement. 1) OSRS's flow of 'new content' is exponentially less and slower than RS3, and there's a leap of almost 9 years between OSRS's template date stamp, and OSRS getting its first update. 2) Lots of OSRS's content literally is RS3 content (except sometimes under a new name/coat), just not 'in RS3'. With even more content (like WGS) to follow that suit. Only maybe like half of all the updates OSRS got, was actually OSRS-unique.

Id argue nearly all skills are useless on an osrs main vs an Rs3 main, summoning, high arch, herb, dung are all useful for main accounts vs only agility on osrs

The biggest difference is the cost doesn't always outweigh the effort on OSRS. On RS3 the effort outweighs the cost 95% of the time. RS3 is also much easier to make money on to buy supplies and gear. Old school also relies on a lot of items obtained after quests, which require skills.

osrs is questscape true and you do need skills to access those quests, but objectively looking at the skills themselves besides them being a check off the list stat for quests, the skills are outdated and have no inherent value on their own standing

Herblore has uses via CoX. Con via PoH. But yeah, most skills don't have a real practical use. They're mostly QoL buffs via skillcapes, elite diaries, etc.

All of this aside i would be very unsurprised if jagex at some point lost a lawsuit for encouraging people to get RSI given the fact that 3 (or however many) tick training not only exists but is embraced and recommended by jmods

I like how you put "has alot of bad/dead content" for RS3 but not for OSRS. Uh-huh totally unbiased and completely reliable judgement.

You should add "BiS endgame gear is impossible to obtain" as a con to OSRS. You could just aalmost buy a partyhat on RS3 for the price of BiS melee on OSRS. This is because of OSRS's insanely small drop rates and the "item sink" system that buys items off of the GE just to delete them automatically which keeps the prices of BiS items incredibly inflated. So if you're an endgame focused player you might just forget getting BiS at all if you don't want to shell out a thousand dollars for bonds. On the other hand RS3 BiS are very achievable even to casual players.

Thing is BiS is not needed at all for any OSRS content (maybe except for shadow as that makes magic usable) whereas for rs3 you notice the difference between t90/92 (barely different) and t95 for magic and ranged, melees jump is t90-92 with zgs. Invention makes obtaining bis a lot more annoying as you can’t just dump other styles gear in ge to buy other without needing to remove augment, and repair assuming it isn’t d2d then worrying about perks also. OSRS I could uncharge my bowfa/crystal instantly and put it up on the ge to get the last bit of money to buy that tbow/shadow/scythe.

BiS isn't needed for RS3 either. You can do high enrage zamorak in T90s comfortably. That's not an argument.

The difficulty spike between t95 and t90 is massive compared to going down to next in slot in OSRS. The dps jump is massive in rs3 and it cascades as it allows you to skip mechanics which allows to do more dps which allows to skip more mechanics. Whilst it is a great feedback loop when you get it, it ruins how it people perceive their progression “it’s not worth me doing x boss until I have y weapon/codex” is a common sentiment among players especially when you get half the kph of others not because of skill but because of one item. This effect to my understanding isn’t that bad for necro but that is due to the extreme high numbers at a base level and the general simplicity of the style. 3/4 styles have this problem.

BIS is pretty optional in OSRS vs RS3 though due to how the tier system works. Like Torva vs Bandos+Faceguard is 1b+ cost difference, but gives you like .1 DPS at high defense bosses(ie Duke), .5-1 DPS at lower defense(ie Bloat) bosses with a scythe. Even then, your main money makers as a main is grinding the content that drops these items in the first place(high invo ToAs, small nex teams, ToB, etc). You're generating 10-20m/hr on average pending the content, so it's not much different than the time to get BIS in RS3 pre-Necromancy.

Skill issue

Ion reading allthat

Too many opinion based points. Some people enjoy what you list as cons while others wouldnt think your pros are worth mentioning.

It's almost like I said "what I believe is good or bad"

Ultimate ironman in RS3 is what I'm waiting for... But I feel like Dungeoneering is reason we'll never get it. They would have to blacklist it because almost any skill could be trained there and it would be "very easy".

You've listed rs3 skills are expanded to 120 which is a longer grind to osrs's 99. I'd have to hard disagree and say they are pretty similar depending on the skill.

Already been discussed below and not repeating myself, but in majority of cases you're wrong.

You say Runelite plugins make OSRS 200% better, I recently started OSRS coming from RS3 and while Runelite is great, haven't found it to be life changing (except the quest helper). What plugins do you recommend?

bank tag layouts, menu entry swapper (and extended), tile packs, wiki, radius markers (useful for lategame pvm mostly), bumping up logout timer to 20 mins, GPU. There are a lot in the plugin hub to look through and see what is useful, I can also go in depth on anything if you need help with any of them.

"Most skills are essentially useless on a normal account." What exactly do you mean by that? -edit- Just read what you wrote about it in a comment, only very minimal I can agree with you - I prefer mostly to make my own stuff and not buy everything.

imma disagree on the afk take- OSRS has a lot of very afk activities, they just aren't meta for xp so you have actual rewards for being active and playing. I think that point goes in the con for rs3 in my opinion, where too much afk play is either barely worse or even better than active methods, so you rarely have options to actually actively do a skill and have to afk

With regard to runelite, if the integrated plugin hub is successful, it shouldn’t be a stretch to imagine it being added to rs3, probably behind the Runemetric paywall.

I don't understand the want for afk things .... Like y'all want them to make more ways for you to NOT play the game ???

It provides accessibility, though this isn't the main reason people want it I think. Personally I have a lot of physical issues that makes it hard for me to sit and constantly click. This obviously makes it hard to do click-intensive training methods for longer periods of time, and Runescape is nothing if not a long grind. Having decent AFK methods means people like me can play and enjoy the progression without feeling like I am being gatekept by my own body. Few games with as much progression as Runescape has as much click-intensive activities, and most of those games utilize the keyboard more which is generally ergonomically better. For some it's a way for them to play and progress while actively studying or working, as that's the only time they can really be at the computer. This lets them somewhat keep up with their friends so they can play together without real life obligations keeping them from that. It's great that so many people enjoy actively playing and doing the more click-intensive things, but there being more afk-friendly options in RS3 IS a massive pro for a lot of people. I just wish Jagex would go over some skills and make the click-intensive methods more rewarding so that the afk skills could be reasonable buffed also - thinking about Hall of Memories divination training here, as an example. Two-ticking the center piece for shit rates is not fun, and it's not worth the pain. But any other training method is SO much worse. Why would anyone with physical limitations even bother leveling divination if it wasn't a requirement for divination?

A lot of us play Runescape as a second monitor game or while working. Not being able to AFK means less hours played. We're adults with jobs and outside lives.

but no hate, everyone plays their own way :) i just dont think auto actions that repeat on their own and have no alternative rather than have an intensive active play method and a lesser active method is ridiculous , its like jagex pick and chooses when to try and cater to both play styles and has either one or the other instead of a good balance of both if they're gonna implement less active methods of play/afk style activities than give us intense methods as well, cus some of us actually wanna play the game actively and get bored af with the repetitive tasks that only need a click once every 2 -3 min... eugh. 🙄..

okay but its a GAME ... meant to be played. active should be prioritized over afk options honestly. like wtf is a second monitor game?? that sounds like a scam lmao, hey come pay me to watch a game on ur screen instead of playing it xD .... lolol. but i mean, a lot of games afk is similar to botting... its literally trying to get the most time N O T playing and letting it auto do things... sounds like a bot to me

Have you not heard of idle games on mobile...? There's literally an entire genre of popular games that thrive on similar concepts to this, the difference is the game has WAY more active things to do and is a massive game full of content.

Actually... I haven't. Can you give me some to check out ? I tried to look some stuff up but didn't really get anywhere with it educate me then.?

As someone who plays both games pretty frequently (My end goal is to get every single reptile pet on both games cause I think they're cool), I do agree with a lot of this list. I did want to add a few comments. For one thing, I'd like to highlight the music of RS3. OSRS has good music (Inferno, Mor-Ul-Rek and Coil are my highlights), but a lot of RS3's music is genuinely very good, and it needs to be appreciated more. One thing that can't be understated for community interaction is content creation. OSRS has so many great creators like Settled, B0aty, Alfie with tons of variety. RS3's content creation with VERY few exceptions is pretty much exclusively just end-game PVM and it's a lot more barren in general. RS3's art style can be pretty inconsistent and it can lead to very jarring experiences. Some places look nice, and then you have shit like Zanik lol. Additionally, I do kind of lowkey respect RS3's desire to innovate/break the mold, it's led to some really good hits like Invention or Archaeology, and yeah unfortunately some stinkers. That aside it's nice to meet people that love both games, some of the sentiment in both subreddits can get pretty toxic. Runescape's fuckin' cool man.

Seems like most of your cons can go away by playing Ironman mode

RS3 is essentially "MTX bad", yes.

"Right now"? When was the last time this game had a good player/company relationship?