Has anyone run the SF 1st or 2nd half marathons? Looking at signing up for 2nd half this year, but looking at some of the race reports from prior years, it looks like the course has changed rather significantly. Looking for advice on the new (?) 2nd half course and how it might compare to prior years from anyone who's run before or is local to the area!
I ran the 1st half last year, the one that goes over the golden gate bridge and back and ends in the park. 10/10 scenery, only downside is that the bridge is frustrating with how tightly everyone gets packed into the walkways. It's hilly but not that bad. It was really nice to start in the presidio and end in the park, made it very pleasant to hang around at the finish line and wait for friends to come in.
We decided against the 2nd half last year because of the city running section, finish line location, and because we thought the bridge would be fun to run over. It looks like this year more of it is in the park instead of through the presidio and the richmond, which would be an improvement (though you lose all of the water views on the ocean side), but doesn't really change our decision.
I'm using Pfitz 18/55 for the first time. I'm 49M and training for an October Marathon. Ran the same one last year (first marathon ever) with a time of 3:23.
I'm trying to understand the recommended paces and how they compare/contrast with other advice I've seen regarding lower HR training. For the MLRs and the LRs, the recommended pace is 10-20% slower than your marathon goal pace which coincides with 75-84% of max HR or 66-78% of HRR. My max HR is 183 and my resting HR is 58, so using HRR the MLR and LR paces should coincide with a HR range of about 140-155.
In previous training, I've used my lactate threshold HR as the basis for determining my HR zones. I've performed a lactate threshold field test (running 30 min at max speed) to determine my LTHR. My Z2 HR is 130-144 using this method. In previous training I would generally try to avoid going past Z2 in long or recovery runs.
While there's some overlap between Pfitz's HR recommendations and the LTHR method, I'm slightly concerned that Pfitz has me going into Z3 or even the bottom of Z4 (based on LTHR method) which I've previously been told to avoid to improve recovery time, reduce injury, improve aerobic capacity, etc.
Is this concern valid? I understand that Pfitz is primarily a pace-driven program, but still...
Just read the book its all explained there. His none workout runs are endurance, general aerobic and recovery. Recovery are extremely easy basically as slow as you can go. His Ga and endurance are NOT just easy mileage and you are reading the plan wrong because you aren't looking at the book, which again just go get it. They are progression runs ending at 10% slower than MP. There isn't a problem with bleeding into zone 3 a bit, its not the boogie man and he wants you to do more moderate efforts and stack fatigue through your long runs. Really just read the book or skim through to the applicable sections as all your questions are answered there in lots of detail. Personally I've had great success with his plans but they aren't for everyone.
Hi! I'm a newbie and this question will really give that away. I'm running a half marathon on Sunday and I have a blister on the pad of my big toe. My last run was on Sunday past and I think my choice of sock caused it to happen. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do for Sunday? The blister has popped and the flap of skin is gone leaving just a circle of slightly raw flesh.
I know I messed up but I've been training for this and really looking forward to it. I'll be slow but I can finish, which is my goal. But this toe is causing me to worry. Plasters? A bandage? Blister plaster?
Is the skin isn’t too sensitive, I would just lube it up so the blister doesn’t come back. But taping it can also work as long as it’s very secure and won’t bunch up/come loose as you’re running (I’ve had a hard time taping things on the bottom of my foot).
hey folks,
I have been trying to adjust my running form (the same one every running youtuber tells you to do -- less heelstrike, more midfoot + footstrikes closer to the center of gravity).
The issue I've been having is that every time I run like that, one or the other of my hamstrings is sore and siezed up the next day. Nothing feels injured, but they consistently feel strained.
My assumption is that running differently is just loading that muscle group in a new way it's not used to.
My strategy around this has been to wait 1-2 days until it feels fine before going running again (5K), and it's been less and less intense, but still noticeable. Which side it's on has switched a couple of times.
Does that sound fairly normal for this sort of form adjustment to y'all, and is that a safe way to handle it -- wait for it to calm down and then go again? Or is there something more serious here that I should be seeing a doctor about?
If you aren't currently injured or deal with frequent injuries, do not adjust your running form. People tell me all the time (non runners) that I heel strike too much. Looking at my shoes, I tend to agree. But why would I change something if I continue to see progress in my pace and conditioning?
Why are you adjusting your form based on what a bunch of youtubers say?
If you're not getting injured on a regular basis, there's no need to change your form.
If you ARE getting injured on a regular basis, go to a physio and find out why.
My running coach back in high school told us to try not to heelstrike so much. Which I ignored at the time, but am trying to do now.
Happens to be the same thing that every youtuber says to do, but that wasn't the impetus for it.
It’s probably what you said, the body is just adjusting. However might be worth incorporating an extra hamstring strength post workout, and make sure you do a thorough warmup with drills to get the muscles activated.
So during my Z1 run today I had a bpm under 130 almost the entire time for 7,5km which is Z1 for me, and averaged 128 bpm. I wont be in Z2 until I hit 142’ish bpm so this is clearly a very, very easy effort. Legs felt easy, body felt easy but I was out of breath and breathing heavy. Not breathing fast like I do during intervals but just big and heavy breaths where as it should feel like I almost wasn’t breathing when my heart rate is so low. I’m in decent shape and run around 5:15-5:20/km at this heart rate so not like I’m out of shape. This had happened before during my Z2 runs aswell in the last couple of months, it just feels like my breathing is not matching my body in term of pulse and “feel” at all. I travelled to Norway 2 months ago and was sick when I arrived here, and when I was recovering from sickness I was REALLY out of breath running easy, so maybe something have “stayed”? Anyone tried this before?
Thanks! :-)
I’m trying to get into zone 2 training this summer and was wondering what’s the best way to calculate it. I know one method is using your max heart rate and having zone 2 be 60-70% of that HR (125-145 for me). However, this method gives me a HR that is very low and hard to run at for me. Another method I’ve seen for zone 2 is using max HR and resting HR (150-164 for me) which is a lot more obtainable. These values vary a lot so I wanted other opinions. What method would you suggest?
Just don't do it. If you aren't pushing more volume, having 2+ hard workouts a week or are struggling to recover from your current runs, running by HR (zone 2) and not just perceived effort has almost 0 benefit and in fact probably will be detrimental. Now if you really do want to run by hr get an accurate hr max by doing a field test. Sprint up a hill, jog down, repeat until you feel like dieing. Then you can look at the various methods of calculation. Using the 220-age is great for a clinical settings, useless for individual training purposes.
I thought that running in zone 2 was better for easy runs because it helps build the aerobic base better than say running in zones 3 or 4. Is this not true?
Well you will still be doing easy runs by feel not heart rate. As well bleeding back over into 3 isn't the end of the world. I've heard arguments it helps capillary density growth but unless your going to absolutely crank your mileage up your going to be worse off because your getting way less overall training stimulus you really need. Zone 2 is loved by influences since it's catchy, if you still really want to do it read some books (80/20) on it and don't listen to the talking heads. Youll see even proponets of zone 2 say you need that other hard hard stimulus so you can run more while still getting intense sessions in to develop adaptations. Just running your current mileage slower is not the intent.
Hey,
I started running around two months ago and have been slowly increasing mileage 10% and adding in tempo runs and intervals. My next step seems like to add in some hill sprints.
My current routine is:
Tuesday - Easy Run (Zone 2) 6k (+10% each week)
Thursday - Intervals (400x12 or 1000x5, switch weekly)
Friday - Easy Run (Zone 2) 10k (+10% each week)
Sunday - Threshold (6min at half marathon goal pace x 5 with two easy 6mins and one even easier 6min) (increasing mins every two weeks)
I am thinking of adding the hill sprints as a replacement for one of my interval sessions every other week. I think the threshold session is the most valuable so I don’t want to switch that up?
My current goal is to improve my 10k pb (46mins) and run a half marathon in about 6 months with a fairly decent time.
Let me know what you guys think is best. Appreciate all the help!
Hills are good to mix in to a bunch of different types of workouts. Do some hill intervals, add a long hill on an easy run, do a threshold effort up a hill. Don't conflate terrain and effort.
What are everyone's thoughts on video run analysis? My physical therapist's office is offering a package that includes a running analysis to look at 'biomechanics across all phases of the running cycle' as well as a review of running history, injury history, and some mobility/movement assessments. Comes paired with some sort of strength-training/injury avoidance plan (and I believe a session with a PT to review that plan, with a recommendation to schedule more, I'm sure).
I've already been to this PT after an injury and got some exercise rehab/prehab recommendations (I have hip dysplasia, so have some running issues). Years ago I got 'analyzed' at a running store (just for shoes purposes) and they basically said 'you seem fine, go for a neutral shoe.' Worth saying that I'm also very, very much an amateur - would love to improve some times but am not coming anywhere near winning any races anytime soon.
It sounds very appealing, but since I have a general idea of some exercises I need to do due to some issues I've dealt with in the past, I'm not entirely sure if the value-add would be worth it. At the same time, I've never done ANY sort of form analysis/gait analysis/etc. and am curious (I'm not in a run club and run alone)
Thoughts?
How should I go about firing my running coach?
I’m wanting to stop working with my current coach. I’ve been using his coaching for 10 months, although I was injured for 4 of those. During that time there’s been a few red flags and the coaching isn’t worth the money for me. What’s the best way to approach this with him? I really just want to send him a text with a one month notice and not go into details but is that unprofessional? I hate any sort of confrontation and having to do this is stressing me out.
If you primarily communicate over text that should be fine! People’s situation changes all the time, I wouldn’t stress about it unless you have a big friendship outside of coaching
Best Half Marathon plan for someone in my circumstances?
Had a brief affair with running when Covid first shut down gyms. Late march/ early April i started getting the itch again and began trail running 2-3x a week, long and slow (7-12km per run, so long for me) and doing hill sprints (occasionally with a weighted vest). My previous period of running I was bad at being slow and burnt myself out trying to run at sustained higher HR/ assumed I could effort myself to sub 20 5k without much of an aerobic base, so I have been enjoying being more patient with my fitness and paces this time around.
Earlier this week on Tuesday I saw they were setting up a start/ finish line for a 5k right by my house after work and they were still accepting same-day registrations. I ran home and got changed/ grabbed my lone pair of non-trail running shoes and got back just in-time to join the starting group.
It was a hilly route and temperatures were hot but I ended up running a 24:04, which is well below my PR from 2021 of 20:15 but I was still happy-ish. I immediately signed up for a half-marathon in early November and dusted off my copy of Daniel's Running Formula. I remember liking the Daniels philosophy but my weekly mileage over the last 8 weeks since I started up again is still only in the 25km range. I do weightlift 5x a week but am willing to curb that to allow for more than 3 runs a week to build higher mileage if I HAVE to (would prefer to keep current training regiment).
With 21 weeks until the Half Marathon is that enough time to ramp current mileage up over the next 3-4 then start an 18 week Daniels plan? If not what should I consider? Thanks.
25 km is a fine place got starting to train for a half that far away.
However, this is a red flag:
> I do weightlift 5x a week but am willing to curb that to allow for more than 3 runs a week to build higher mileage if I HAVE to (would prefer to keep current training regiment).
You absolutely need to increase your mileage especially if you want to do well. As you increase mileage, you'll probably find it easier to recover on 4-5 days a week running instead of only 3 days. You can finish a half on 3 runs a week, but you'll do much better with 4-5.
Yea that's understandable, i can certainly do 5 runs a week, I'd just prefer NOT to limit my weightlifting if I can. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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You should probably get checked by a medical professional. I don't know what it could be, but given what you've tried, that sort of pain shouldn't be happening.
Ran my first marathon recently and was not fast whatsoever, but I’m super proud and itching to get faster and stronger for the next one! I recently moved from Apple Watch to a garmin FR 965 and decided to try one of the 5k plans to mix up my training and start to get faster.
What I’m struggling with or just curious about is that the easy days built into the plan have pace guidelines that are faster than I’m used to and seem to push my heart rate either to the limit of zone 2 or out of it completely. So I’m just curious; should I keep following the pace guidelines or should I truly run my easy days easy?
I have no problem running the paces but all of my running has seemed to be more intense than normal and when I’m not feeling motivated to run they’re definitely more difficult to get done. The plan also has me doing significantly less mileage than I was hoping to maintain as I want to maintain a good amount of my fitness from my marathon training.
Any advice is more than appreciated, thanks!
You can just run it easy and ignore what they suggest, or you can change the training to HR for those easy days.
But also zone 2 isn't the be all, if it feels easy it's good enough.
Run extra runs outside of the plan if you want to run more. Did you tell the program your current/desired mileage at the start?
Yeah I told it I wanted to run about 40km/week, so far it has me running about 25 so maybe it’s going to build up but I’m not sure exactly. Also I didn’t know you could change it to be based on HR instead of pace, do you know where I can make the change?
I have been seeing a lot on socials about runners having separate shoes for daily training, short runs, long runs, fast runs, 5k/10k, halfs/marathons. Do runners other than elites actually use different runners for different aspects of their training and racing or is it another example of companies trying to get the average person to spend more money?
I'm a 25-30 MPW runner.
I have daily trainers. I have trail shoes. And I have fancy carbon racing shoes.
For me, I just run in my daily trainers until they disintegrate (or reach 300ish miles, whichever comes first!) then replace them with the same exact shoe. For me, I don't see much of a difference between rotating a few pairs and wearing through one at a time.
I am the very most casual of runners who just runs a lot. I just have about 5 pairs of the exact same shoes that I use for all my runs (switch out if I run 2 days in a row), and 1 pair of trail shoes. That’s been good enough for me for the last 20 years!
For road, I have a pair of shoes that I use as daily trainers (Topo, forget the model) and a pair with a nylon plate (Saucony endorphin speed) that I use for races. I don't particularly like the feel of the Sauconys for slower runs but I'll do tempo runs in them especially leading up to a race. I'll switch to the other pair if I do road runs on back to back days (which is uncommon since I'll try to do one of them on dirt).
For trail, I have \~ 4 pairs of shoes with different uppers and lug patterns for different conditions, e.g. hard dirt, mud, rain/snow, rocky trails, etc... I also use all of those shoes for hiking.
Yes, absolutely many dedicated but decidedly NOT elite runners mix up their shoes. You don't need to but there's basically only benefits to doing so.
- if you run in the rain, you have dry shoes for tomorrow
- different shoes to suit your mood or needs - softer shoes for recovery days, faster shoes for intervals
- plated shoes for racing if you're into that
- different shoes fit differently and sometimes it's good to mix it up
- sometimes it's just fun to have different colours
Absolutely the latter. There's something to rotating 2 pairs(Drying out, seen some reports about them lasting a bit longer).
The super shoes worth is all about your pace. As they study more on the average runner, they're showing minimal effect to even being worse than a regular trainer.
Probably a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. I'm a 6 days of the week runner and I use a 3-shoe rotation. For regular easy runs I use a heavier neutral medium cushioned shoe like the brooks ghost, for tempo and interval days I use a lightweight low cushioned shoe that is more responsive like the saucony kinvara, and for long runs I use a heavier plush shoe for maximum comfort like the saucony triumph.
It's not at all necessary to split it up like this, but I find when I am running 6 days a week, 24 hours often isn't enough time for my shoes to dry out and I really don't want to get up and run at 4 am with soggy shoes.
For the first couple of years I ran I had just one pair of shoes at a time and it was absolutely fine. You do not need more than one pair. But even though I am in no way elite I do now enjoy using different shoes for different runs. I have a pair of cushioned but heavier shoes for easy days, a lighter more responsive pair for speed work, and a pair of carbon plate super shoes for race day. Again, this is totally unnecessary, especially the super shoes, but
Having multiple pairs of shoes isn't any more expensive than filling up your car when your tank is half full instead of empty (i.e. not at all).
> Do runners other than elites actually use different runners for different aspects of their training
Yes. It's also not mandatory.
I posted a comment yesterday but I'm hoping for a wider reach.
Long story short, I've been running for just over a month now, every 2 days with a 5k parkrun on Saturday.
So Tuesday training
Thursday training
Saturday parkrun
My training consists of low heart rate training, and whether it's a slow pace or a fast pace, 20 to 25 mins into my run my feet start going numb (more so on my left foot).
I've spoken to people and people seem baffled and think it could be the trainer (even though these were the number 1 recommended shoe to me based on a 3d scan of my feet - in store)
I bought some sauconoys which are a similar fit but a bit more Instep room which will hopefully fix it.
But I've just youtubed it and there's videos to lace the shoe differently to prevent numbness... so this is obviously quite common right?
All I want to know is if anyone ever went through this, and how did they fix it?
Thanks in advance
Try doing heel lock lacing to secure your heel and then loosening the laces over the midfoot. Make sure your toes have room to spread as well. Don't wear socks that are too thick.
a lot of people purchase running shoes in their walking shoe size, which, like, i get — but when we run, our feet swell up various amounts depending on our personal physiology. i wear 11.5s in walking around shoes, and experienced some extremity numbness — and when i started consistently running over 4 miles, a black toenail — when i wore size 11.5 running shoes. i switched to buying 12s across a few brands (adidas and saucony mostly), and i haven’t had any issues since. i ran like 1500 miles last year and my toes look great (humblebrag).
so what i’m trying to say is — a shoe store can recommend a shoe, but they can’t tell you what fits *your* body. at the end of the day, it’s a recommendation. i’d try running on a treadmill at a store in a size 1/2 up from what you usually buy, and see how that affects the feel on your foot. (they probably won’t let you go for like 20 minutes, but what you’re testing is if a half-size up feels workable on your foot or not.) my ratio of shoes tried on to shoes enjoyed is hovering around 1:6, so don’t feel like you’re weird for experimenting with lots of options — it can take a second to find what works for you & your specific foot shape.
This is amazing advice, my issue is as a new runner, I have no idea what good is meant to feel like vs not good, until I'm 20 mins into a run and I feel like I have an iron boot on.
For now, I've laced my running trainers differently, leaving a gap on the top of my foot, I have a run tomorrow, which I will test them out on.
Then I'm a few days my sauconys should arrive, and I can test them, and if it's still happening, then I need to go up half a size.
This is possibly more suited to the stupid questions thread but I might as well ask it here: what's a good way for a beginner to learn about pacing a race?
For info, I have been running for one year. I run four times a week for 35 mins, always at an easy pace (usually about 6:45/km), and have recently started doing some speed drills (hill sprints, strides) twice a week at the end of an easy run.
Today I thought I'd test myself and try to 'race' a 5k, and I had to stop at 4.5k because I was pushing too hard and gave myself a headache. I had done the 4.5k in 23:51. I guess my problem is that I don't have a lot of speed endurance, but I also have no idea what my 'too hard' effort feels like compared to my 'hard enough' effort. Does that make any sense?
I'll chalk this up as a learning experience, and perhaps aim to 'race' a 5k again in a couple of months time, but how do I know what pace/finish time to aim for when I'm a beginner and I have no idea what I'm capable of?
Thanks!
It's experience.
A 5k is a sufferfest.
If you race a 5k to your full potential you will feel like you're dying by the end.
For me, it's the fine line between going as hard as I can and not actually making myself sick.
You aren't supposed to feel good at the end of a 5k. You just gave up when you should have pushed through. a 26 minute 5k is a decent times. Honestly run the same pace and don't give up because of mild discomfort.
one way to test what your body’s capable of is by breaking the distance into smaller bits, running those bits, and trying to sync your body’s effort level with the pace you’re shooting for. this is the essence of the tempo run — a less-than-total trial version of the distance you want, to train your body to *listen* to itself. (as opposed to intervals, which are about adding higher (lower? i mean *faster*) gears to your gearbox, metaphorically speaking).
so, given that you’re training for a 5k, your test workout can look like:
- warm up for \~2 km at your easy pace
and then repeat this 3x:
- 1k @ your 5k goal (seems to be between 5:20 and 5:40 currently, for a total time between \~27 and 28 min)
- 0.5k easy
if you can run the last 1k at the same speed you ran the first 1k (or, ideally, faster), then *that* pace is a good indication of your 5k fitness *while racing*. (my philosophy is that workouts should drain the tank 80-90%, but leave yourself room for recovery; in contrast, i like racing at 100% effort, trying to leave nothing on the table.)
in contrast, if you find yourself slowing down meaningfully between each 1k, then that pace is probably over your current level of fitness — so rest, recover, and 4-5 days later, you could re-attempt at a slower race pace. rinse & repeat until you find what your body is capable of, and then start building from there :)
as a side note: if you couldn’t finish a 5k at \~5:40/km pace, i think you may be overestimating your easy pace. my 5k pace is \~4:10/km, and my easy pace is between 5:20/km and 5:45/km, depending on how hot the day is. i’d generally expect there to be about 60-90s of separation between one’s easy and 5k pace — that’s not a hard and fast rule, but it *can* be a good indicator that your “gearbox” is small — and slowing down on easy runs is a great way to start to build out that gearbox.
I'd suggest every other day and see how you feel in a few weeks. Later on it'll depend on your goals, if you're doing a warmup run before other workouts then every day isn't bad but if you're training and increasing mileage you'll want some recovery days.
Two or three days a week is good. Do some stretches afterward. Keep it fun. You can probably stick to three days per week indefinitely and simply increase the mileage over the next several months.
You might have knee pain as your muscles adjust to the new stresses but it will almost certainly go away after a couple weeks.
Definitely do not run every day at the start. It’s not specifically bad for your knees, but your whole body and all your joints need time to adjust. Check out some beginner training plans to get an idea of safe increases in mileage over time. As a beginner you’ll probably want to avoid having too many back to back running days, start with maybe 3 days per week and go easy, start with a short distance like 1-2 miles at a time.
This may be the wrong thread to ask this, but Parker Valby won the 10k at Nationals wearing Nike Vaporfly spikes. I googled them and don’t see any. I’m not gonna buy some as I have no need for them, but are they custom made? Are they just not sold online? I have never seen these before. (@citiusmag on instagram posted them if you wanna see for yourself)
I don't have an Instagram account and am not going to try and see whatever that person posted, but I think they're probably mixing up names. The Vaporfly is Nike's road shoe for marathon. They make a lighter, thinner-soled version called the Streakfly specialized for 5k/10k. I wasn't paying huge attention to Parker's shoes yesterday, but my wife was commenting that all the runners seemed to have pink shoes and I noticed Parker was wearing white shoes. Looking at Nike's lineup right now, I think they were probably the Dragonfly, their track spike version of the "fly" models for long distance. The Maxfly is the version for sprints.
I'm trying to train for a 5k but i am only most consistently able to run with my baby in a jogging stroller.
My friend and I have a goal to do under 40 min and the race is June 23, so I need to reach 8 min/km as an average.
Today I did a practice 5k pushing my stroller and managed to average 8.2 minutes/km.
Could the extra effort of running with the stroller be a good thing for me? Or just something I have to tolerate?
I have seen plenty of runners race quickly with a stroller. Once it gets rolling, a proper running stroller won't hold you back much at all (assuming no hills). If you are doing hills then it will give you extra training stimulus and slow you down.
Thank you! The practice I just mentioned was on a flat track indoors. Outdoors there are hills but I tend to time my break stretches to coincide with the steep inclines.
Glad to know this is at least not detrimental :)
How much time does it usually take to recover from a half?
It's been almost 3 weeks since I ran a HM and my legs are still feeling dead on my runs. I took 2 days off after the race and then eased back in with some shorter, easier runs averaging about 20 mpw (was at 40 during the training cycle). I've had 1 or 2 runs that have felt okay but for the most part my legs still feel super sore and tired, especially in my quads when I run or go downstairs. It doesn't feel painful like an injury, just tired and like there is no spring in them.
Any ideas how to fix this? I'm willing to take a few days off at this point if it might make it better.
I've typically taken a full week off after HMs, just a few short spin sessions and walks to keep the blood flowing. I'll wait until I get the antsy feeling back in my legs and then start running again.
It took a good month to feel normal again after my first half. I was undertrained for the race and pushed myself really hard during the race. I've since run 3 full marathons and several more halfs, but I've never felt worse than I did after that first half. These days it takes me about a week, maybe two, after I race a half to feel normal again physically. All that to say- it really varies. It sounds to me like you need a little more recovery time. I've always found it helpful, both physically and mentally, to take a week off completely after a goal half or full. So maybe 2 days off just wasn't quite enough for you? I'd take another couple of days off of running, maybe do some walking instead and see if you start to feel better.
Usually if I raced really hard it'll take me a week or two to feel back to where I was.
You could try walking or easy cycling instead of running during recovery.
New runner here. Started walk/running in November 2023, and I've now been jogging nonstop 3.5-4.5 miles twice a week since mid-February. My garmin watch says I'm consistently in the zone 5 ("maximum" per garmin) for the entire jog. I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, but I do manage to nose breathe the entire time so I'm certainly not gasping for air by any means, and it's not miserable. I'm interested in trying the "run slower to run longer/faster" thing, but in order to keep my heart rate in zone 3 ("aerobic" per garmin), I need to either just power walk or do a mix of power walking/shuffling - either is fine and I know it's going to feel really slow. I find, however, that even at the same speed, shuffling seems to raise my heart rate more than power walking. Is that normal? Is there something about shuffling that is more taxing than power walking, even when both are done at the same speed? Is it worth it for me to even shuffle at all so long as I am in the aerobic zone, or should I exclusively power walk for now? Or should I just continue jogging nonstop even if I'm in zone 5 so long as I'm not hating it, and trust that with time my heart rate will fall? Thank you in advance.
Just run by feel. Chances are your zones and max heart rate are likely wrong in Garmin. Also, the optical heart rate sensors on watches can be pretty inaccurate.
> Is it worth it for me to even shuffle at all so long as I am in the aerobic zone, or should I exclusively power walk for now?
Neither of those is worth it. You're only running 8ish miles per week so there's no reason to go slower. If you said something like "I'd like to run 6 miles but can't go farther than 4" then maybe slowing down would be good advice but if you are able to run the mileage you want to run and "not be miserable" while doing it, then slowing down isn't going to help you.
Stop with the nose breathing, there’s no benefit to it, you’re just getting in less oxygen and making it way harder than it needs to be.
You’re a new runner, so don’t even think about zone training. Your HR zones are likely wrong anyway, and as a new runner at lower mileages you don’t even need to worry about that. Just run by feel.
Why are you nose breathing? Just makes it a bit harder.
I ran in zone 5 until I could do a decent pace in zone 4. Then I ran in zone 4 until I could do a decent pace in zone 3.
I started the nose breathing thing many years ago when I started hiking. I found that once I started to breathe through my mouth, I would end up panting and that would very quickly lead gasping which was kind of miserable and I would have to completely stop moving in order to catch my breath, and that just wasn't practical on busy hiking trails, but maybe isn't as much of an issue on the sidewalk.
I'll go by feel for the next few months, and so long as I'm not miserable, I'll assume all is well. Thanks!
Are you using a chest strap heart rate monitor? The watch can often be inaccurate. You can find strap heart rate monitors on Amazon for less than $100. It’s a worthwhile piece of equipment to have.
I'm training for Chi marathon in October and I'm goign to buy a new set of daily runners - I already have the Asics Superblast - what shoe would you recommend for a daily runner to complement? I do like the Asics lineup but doesn't need to be in the family
Doing 2 interval runs and 2 long runs instead of 1 interval run and 3 long runs?
I'm training for a fast 2 mile for the military, hopefully in the 14-minute range. For the last 2 months, I've been running 3 long zone 2 runs and 1 8x400m interval workout. I've gotten better at running longer distances, running over 5 miles per run, but my pace hasn't gotten better, still hovering at around 11 minutes for zone 2 runs and around a 8 minute pace for the intervals and 1 mile, which is where I originally was at.
I'm debating ditching the third long run for another interval day, maybe Norwegian 4x4, to work on my speed and running distances longer than 400m. I know 80% of my runs should be long, easy runs, but I haven't been getting good results with this. I can run a little further, but my pace is the same despite 20% of my runs being speed/interval runs where I am actually trying.
Any thoughts on this? Any recommendations?
Yeah do more intervals and/or tempo work. I like fartleks over intervals with breaks since you have to balance pace with needing to recover while still running.
By nature they're flexible. The basic idea is just to run at different levels of effort over the course of a run, no stopping. I usually do them on a 5 mile route with 4 or 5 sections of about half a mile each at \~ threshold effort. Some sections are hills, some are flat. Some sections are close together so you get less recovery time. Make sure you warm up properly before a fast section.
The goal is to push yourself hard and then recover at your normal easy run pace. When you're starting out you can do fewer or shorter sections, then gradually lengthen them or add more sections in.
Why does my average pace on Strava get faster when I take walking breaks vs running the entire route? I went from 9:24 to 8:36 for seemingly no reason. Cadence was 169 on the full run, 170 on the run with breaks.
Was the higher pace recording the full run/walk? I think by default that Strava shows run pace and leaves out walk breaks or stops. You need to look at the average elapsed pace to see pace for the full time.
With that said, the walk breaks help you recover during the full effort. The Galloway method is famous for it's run/walk approach and people have recorded competitive marathon times using it.
The higher pace was during the walking break run. I'm sure you're right about recovery helping with speed during the running part, I just didn't think it would shave off that much time. It certainly doesn't feel any faster.
I've made a lot of progress in eliminating walk breaks from my runs, so it's a bit disheartening to see that I'm faster overall when I take them. I get that it's valid method, but it in my head I feel like less of a runner.
I'm also just using Strava on my phone with no watch, so I only see the results after I'm done. It might be time to get a Garmin so I can track better.
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Faster Road Racing has 12 week Pfitz half marathon plans that peak at 47 and 63 miles.
It also has base 10-week base-building plans to work up to 30/45/60 miles per week. You could push one of these to the start to make it 22/47 or 22/63. (Or only take the last 6 weeks of one if you're adamant about having an 18 week Pfitz plan that is half-marathon specific).
Hello!! I want to run a half marathon on the road in two months. I am a beginner trail runner, and I have run 21 km in the mountains before.
My idea is not to compete or anything like that, just to reach the finish line, which I assume will take me around 2 hours and 20 minutes. Do you think I will have any problems doing this? Any similar experiences?
I mostly did (and still do) trail runs for fun before running road HMs (my friends only run road). It's very doable, you should be fine. My road times are all faster than my trail times. A few things:
* Don't run on the road in trail shoes, they don't have enough padding and you'll destroy your feet.
* Build up mileage slowly on the road like everyone else says, it really is much harder on your body.
* The terrain doesn't dictate your pace as much in road running, so you need to actively be thinking about it. Pace changes feel very subtle compared to trail.
* Do some form running, think about maintaining a high cadence, etc... again, because you're not responding to the terrain, any bad habits are more likely to cause injuries because you do them non-stop.
* Make sure you have podcasts or music because doing the same thing for 2+ hours gets so, so boring.
* Watch out around aid stops, everyone becomes an idiot and steps on each others heels, runs into each other, slips, throws half full water cups around, etc... it's a total zoo compared to trail race aid stations.
I was initially a trail runner and then went to road running. My biggest issues were the impact of the pavement on my legs. It's much harder on them than the soft dirt/roots/grass. There was a short adjustment period where my calves and quads took a beating and were a little sore but nothing that unusual!
**Where do you guys do interval training?**
I want to start doing speed work but the nearest track I can find is a half hour ride in the metro. Would it be safe to do 4x400 sessions on uneven sidewalk?
I almost always do mind on asphalt streets which have little camber and low vehicular traffic. I use my watch's manual lap feature so 400s are usually actually between 0.25 and 0.26 miles. Due to duration of jogging recovery intervals I typically end up running in two directions on the street on what are not quite the same segments and on longer intervals there's sometimes mild elevation change. I've tried sidewalks, but even when they're not sloping and don't have parts pushed up from roots I risk coming close to walkers side by side and dogs on leashes.
If I can’t make it to the track, my area has a paved path that is marked every quarter of a mile. Even if it’s not marked, if you can find a path like this, something like that is a good option as long as it’s not too crowded.
I do my speed work on uneven paved/gravel paths in a local park, it's not ideal but I think it's safe. Just do your best to find a relatively flat/even spot to do the repeats on. Depending on local traffic you could run in the road right next to the footpath, facing traffic so you could hop back onto the path if needed?
Good morning gents! First and foremost, I'd like to wish everyone a great Friyay and weekend! I've got a question regarding running first thing in the morning, and I'm hoping you can enlighten me!
For a bit of context, I've been running 3x/week (used to run 2x/week until a month ago) for about a year and a half. Started running to lose weight and fell in love with the activity. At the moment, my "comfortable" pace, that is, the Zone 2 pace is around 5:35/KM, and I can push it to 4:50/KM when I want to go "fast". I usually start running after work at 5:00PM and I feel fine throughout the course, with the usual tiredness one gets from running, depending on the pace. However, lately I've tried running first thing in the morning, always fasted (my last meal is usually at 8:00PM) but even going at a 6:30/KM pace I feel like I'm completely out of breath by the end of the session and, overall, it's a very exhaustive process - I also noticed that I sweat a lot more in the morning than I do when running in the afternoon. Is this because my body is just not used to running in the morning? Or is it because I'm fasted? Would this improve if I keep being consistent with running in the morning?
Thank you!
If you're new to exercising fasted, it's possible you need to adjust to morning activity so you get used to it. I'm 5:15AM club right now but for years I didn't eat until lunch, Right now I have nothing more than than wake up, dress, put on shoes, brush teeth, have a sip of water and go. 15 minutes into the run I'll start hitting my stride, but warming up does take a while. Evenings I'm much slower at any given heart rate, mainly due to the heat and being worn out from the day, but feel like I get to my pace of the day quicker then in the mornings.
I suppose you're right, and I need to get used to it. I'm quite okay when running in the evenings, I can hit my stride quite early into the run and just sail from there. In the morning, I feel like I barely hit the stride, lol!
Are your pace numbers correct? Km/h is a bit of an odd way to show pace. Your numbers are actually slower when you say you're going faster (4:50 kph is slower than 5:35 kph), so I think you've got your units mixed up.
Minutes per Km and Minutes per Mile is what people usually use. So I'm going to assume you mean min/K (8:56 min/mile and 7:47 min/mile respectively). The 7:47 one is kind of fast for a training run, IMO. I personally only go that fast in Races.
That out of the way, questions!
First, how far are you running? There's a bit of a difference between running 3 miles and running 10 miles. And are you running the whole time?
Second, are you bringing water? Sounds like there's no food, but especially this time of the year water can make a big difference. The humidity is murder right now.
I used to run only in the morning. Did that for almost two years, before a job change took my mornings away. Now I run in the late afternoon or late evening during the week, and mornings on the weekends.
I find I am the opposite from you. I'm exhausted after the evening runs, but feel better after the morning runs. Even when the morning runs are 10-16 miles.
But I always bring water (even during the winter). For the morning runs I also always eat a clif bar before heading out. And I bring a gel for anything 10 miles and longer. For the evening runs I eat a clif bar if the run is before dinner, but after dinner I don't have the bar.
I would also suggest that if you are "completely out of breath" after a training run, you are going too fast. Slow down. Advice you will see online is that you should be able to have a conversation when running at "training pace". Exceptions would be if you are doing track/speed work or if you're doing a threshold run. But you probably shouldn't be doing those every day.
First of all, thank you for responding!
Thank you for pointing out the way I displayed the pace - it was a lack of attention - I've corrected it now, indeed I meant to use Minutes per KM.
In the morning I am exclusively running 5KM ( approximately 3.1 miles), but in the afternoon I usually do Mon 5KM / Wed 10KM (\~6.2 miles) / Fri 5KM, and I'd like to do the same in the morning. Not very long distances yet, I'm working on it though! Yes, I am running the whole time.
Nope I usually never bring water with me. I find that bringing a bottle of water gets in the way when I'm running. I usually just drink a glass of water before heading out. What is this "gel" that you speak of when running more than 10 miles?
Lastly, I usually don't run out of breath even when going at faster paces in the afternoon, it's only in the morning, even when going slower (which would be "training pace") I run out of breath!
A gel is an Energy Gel. People use them for longer distances. But I don't think you would need one for a 5K or a 10K. I personally use them for Halfs and above.
I can understand the water too. I actually don't always bring water when I do 5K training runs. I don't bring a bottle though, I have a camelbak backpack that I use for anything over 5K.
I would consider maybe eating something like a clif bar before the morning runs, as it sounds like you're body is not liking the totally fasted run.
The only other thing is to keep trying. Your body should adapt at some point. Lots of races are in the morning (if you're looking at doing a race that is), so it would be good to be used to morning runs.
You could also try a gel and/or sports drink if you feel like you can’t eat before running - for me, if I’m eating actual food, it has to be more than an hour before a run
Personally i also run better when i’ve eaten something, especially if i’m running for more than 5km. Bigger issue than eating though for me is hydration: if i run first thing in the morning, i’m normally quite dehydrated, and chugging 0.5l right before the run doesn’t help much. After a couple of minutes my mouth already feels dry. Drinking 0.5l right when i wake up, and then up to 0.5l right before the run helps a bit. When i go running in the evening, i’ve already drunk 2-3l that day and i really notice it. Of course everyone is different, people tell me all the time they feel nauseous if they were to eat and drink right before a run as much as i do, but it works for me
In my experience I can’t run fasted anymore like I could when I was younger. For my early runs I do peanut butter and toast before I walk out the door with some water, and by the time I get to my location and stretched out it’s probably been 30ish minutes and I can do my normal efforts without any gastric issues. You might just have to find something that works for you in that regard.
Thank you! I'm "afraid" of running shortly after eating, as I want to avoid feeling sick during/after the workout. But maybe next week I'll give it a try and see how it turns out. Thank you!
I totally get it I was super leery about doing any running after I ate, but with a little trial and error and training my guts it’s worked out much better to run with a little fuel in my system.
I'm confused about adding up more mileage in regards when it should be done. I'm training for marathon in October. For last few months I've been doing E runs and building up mileage (at 45 KmPW) and i started doing 1Q run a week, along with L (running x5 currently, L, Q 3xE). I thought I would be adding more miles/Kms every 3-4 weeks until it peaks few weeks before the marathon, but adding it along other stressors isnt recommended. I've been reading and following along Daniels book, if it helps.
Should I have reaced my max KmPW in base building phase? Is it bad practice and injury prone to add more miles when i start adding other stressors? What would you do in my situation; I wanted to peak at ~80 KmPW for 1-2 weeks prior to tapering.
> Should I have reaced my max KmPW in base building phase?
Not necessary.
> Is it bad practice and injury prone to add more miles when i start adding other stressors?
Not necessarily. You can raise volume while maintaining some intensity, assuming you are able to rest and recover in your schedule.
> What would you do in my situation
Push volume up as soon as possible. If some speedwork has to be temporarily sacrificed then that's fine. I would much rather hold higher volume for many months when leading up to a marathon than only hold high volume for a small handful of weeks. The volume and the long runs are your keys to success.
So I’m trying to get into long distance running but I’ve never been very good at it. Yesterday I ran 1 mile and today I was able to get 3 miles. The only problem is that I can only run for 3-5 minutes at a time so my miles are split up into a bunch of short runs. I guess my main question is, am I losing any benefits from running by doing this? Or is this just something that will get better over time? I’m only 18 and I played football, baseball, and ran track (sprinted, never ran anything over 200m) from ages 4-17 and was very good at all 3. So I feel like it’s not a question of athleticism. I was thinking maybe because all 3 of those sports really only involved sprinting and I just never got used to running for long amounts of time at once. But I’d just like to hear from people who know more about this than I do.
Miles split up into a bunch of short runs is basically interval training, which should be good. But you probably need to listen to your body and slow down to not burn out.
if you have an athletic background and you can only run for 3-5 minutes at a time, I can almost promise you are just trying to run too fast. Distance running is much slower than you will be used to running for those other sports. Try deliberately jogging at a pace where you can sing a tune without gasping for breath too much. It'll feel ridiculously slow, but that's a normal training pace for most people.
Alternating running and walking is basically how Couch to 5k works, and it's a great way to build up your running time. If you find one of the free C25K plans, you can probably skip forward a few weeks to the 5-min runs and then follow it from there. It builds up to 30 min runs very quickly, and helps you make a habit of getting out to run several times a week.
You’re approaching it the right way. That’s how most of us initially built up our running. And 3 miles is awesome. I’m sure you’ll be running the full distance in a few weeks.
How do I subscribe to the US Runners World site? I'm in Australia and it doesn't seem to have an option for subscribers outside of US/Canada. Anyone else had this issue/resolved it?
The Aussie version of Runnersworld seems pretty stripped down and lacks heaps of the resources of the US equivalent, otherwise I'd just subscribe to it.
Has anyone run the SF 1st or 2nd half marathons? Looking at signing up for 2nd half this year, but looking at some of the race reports from prior years, it looks like the course has changed rather significantly. Looking for advice on the new (?) 2nd half course and how it might compare to prior years from anyone who's run before or is local to the area!
I ran the 1st half last year, the one that goes over the golden gate bridge and back and ends in the park. 10/10 scenery, only downside is that the bridge is frustrating with how tightly everyone gets packed into the walkways. It's hilly but not that bad. It was really nice to start in the presidio and end in the park, made it very pleasant to hang around at the finish line and wait for friends to come in. We decided against the 2nd half last year because of the city running section, finish line location, and because we thought the bridge would be fun to run over. It looks like this year more of it is in the park instead of through the presidio and the richmond, which would be an improvement (though you lose all of the water views on the ocean side), but doesn't really change our decision.
I'm using Pfitz 18/55 for the first time. I'm 49M and training for an October Marathon. Ran the same one last year (first marathon ever) with a time of 3:23. I'm trying to understand the recommended paces and how they compare/contrast with other advice I've seen regarding lower HR training. For the MLRs and the LRs, the recommended pace is 10-20% slower than your marathon goal pace which coincides with 75-84% of max HR or 66-78% of HRR. My max HR is 183 and my resting HR is 58, so using HRR the MLR and LR paces should coincide with a HR range of about 140-155. In previous training, I've used my lactate threshold HR as the basis for determining my HR zones. I've performed a lactate threshold field test (running 30 min at max speed) to determine my LTHR. My Z2 HR is 130-144 using this method. In previous training I would generally try to avoid going past Z2 in long or recovery runs. While there's some overlap between Pfitz's HR recommendations and the LTHR method, I'm slightly concerned that Pfitz has me going into Z3 or even the bottom of Z4 (based on LTHR method) which I've previously been told to avoid to improve recovery time, reduce injury, improve aerobic capacity, etc. Is this concern valid? I understand that Pfitz is primarily a pace-driven program, but still...
Just read the book its all explained there. His none workout runs are endurance, general aerobic and recovery. Recovery are extremely easy basically as slow as you can go. His Ga and endurance are NOT just easy mileage and you are reading the plan wrong because you aren't looking at the book, which again just go get it. They are progression runs ending at 10% slower than MP. There isn't a problem with bleeding into zone 3 a bit, its not the boogie man and he wants you to do more moderate efforts and stack fatigue through your long runs. Really just read the book or skim through to the applicable sections as all your questions are answered there in lots of detail. Personally I've had great success with his plans but they aren't for everyone.
Hi! I'm a newbie and this question will really give that away. I'm running a half marathon on Sunday and I have a blister on the pad of my big toe. My last run was on Sunday past and I think my choice of sock caused it to happen. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do for Sunday? The blister has popped and the flap of skin is gone leaving just a circle of slightly raw flesh. I know I messed up but I've been training for this and really looking forward to it. I'll be slow but I can finish, which is my goal. But this toe is causing me to worry. Plasters? A bandage? Blister plaster?
Is the skin isn’t too sensitive, I would just lube it up so the blister doesn’t come back. But taping it can also work as long as it’s very secure and won’t bunch up/come loose as you’re running (I’ve had a hard time taping things on the bottom of my foot).
Tape it. KT works best for me. I've run on lots of popped blisters you just need to eliminate additional frictions and KT tape is my go to.
Thank you so much!
hey folks, I have been trying to adjust my running form (the same one every running youtuber tells you to do -- less heelstrike, more midfoot + footstrikes closer to the center of gravity). The issue I've been having is that every time I run like that, one or the other of my hamstrings is sore and siezed up the next day. Nothing feels injured, but they consistently feel strained. My assumption is that running differently is just loading that muscle group in a new way it's not used to. My strategy around this has been to wait 1-2 days until it feels fine before going running again (5K), and it's been less and less intense, but still noticeable. Which side it's on has switched a couple of times. Does that sound fairly normal for this sort of form adjustment to y'all, and is that a safe way to handle it -- wait for it to calm down and then go again? Or is there something more serious here that I should be seeing a doctor about?
If you aren't currently injured or deal with frequent injuries, do not adjust your running form. People tell me all the time (non runners) that I heel strike too much. Looking at my shoes, I tend to agree. But why would I change something if I continue to see progress in my pace and conditioning?
Why are you adjusting your form based on what a bunch of youtubers say? If you're not getting injured on a regular basis, there's no need to change your form. If you ARE getting injured on a regular basis, go to a physio and find out why.
My running coach back in high school told us to try not to heelstrike so much. Which I ignored at the time, but am trying to do now. Happens to be the same thing that every youtuber says to do, but that wasn't the impetus for it.
Well I, a stranger on the internet, am telling you that you are welcome to continue ignoring those people.
Heel striking is fine as long as you're not overstriding. Changing your form unnecessarily can lead to injuries.
It’s probably what you said, the body is just adjusting. However might be worth incorporating an extra hamstring strength post workout, and make sure you do a thorough warmup with drills to get the muscles activated.
So during my Z1 run today I had a bpm under 130 almost the entire time for 7,5km which is Z1 for me, and averaged 128 bpm. I wont be in Z2 until I hit 142’ish bpm so this is clearly a very, very easy effort. Legs felt easy, body felt easy but I was out of breath and breathing heavy. Not breathing fast like I do during intervals but just big and heavy breaths where as it should feel like I almost wasn’t breathing when my heart rate is so low. I’m in decent shape and run around 5:15-5:20/km at this heart rate so not like I’m out of shape. This had happened before during my Z2 runs aswell in the last couple of months, it just feels like my breathing is not matching my body in term of pulse and “feel” at all. I travelled to Norway 2 months ago and was sick when I arrived here, and when I was recovering from sickness I was REALLY out of breath running easy, so maybe something have “stayed”? Anyone tried this before? Thanks! :-)
I’m trying to get into zone 2 training this summer and was wondering what’s the best way to calculate it. I know one method is using your max heart rate and having zone 2 be 60-70% of that HR (125-145 for me). However, this method gives me a HR that is very low and hard to run at for me. Another method I’ve seen for zone 2 is using max HR and resting HR (150-164 for me) which is a lot more obtainable. These values vary a lot so I wanted other opinions. What method would you suggest?
Just don't do it. If you aren't pushing more volume, having 2+ hard workouts a week or are struggling to recover from your current runs, running by HR (zone 2) and not just perceived effort has almost 0 benefit and in fact probably will be detrimental. Now if you really do want to run by hr get an accurate hr max by doing a field test. Sprint up a hill, jog down, repeat until you feel like dieing. Then you can look at the various methods of calculation. Using the 220-age is great for a clinical settings, useless for individual training purposes.
I thought that running in zone 2 was better for easy runs because it helps build the aerobic base better than say running in zones 3 or 4. Is this not true?
Well you will still be doing easy runs by feel not heart rate. As well bleeding back over into 3 isn't the end of the world. I've heard arguments it helps capillary density growth but unless your going to absolutely crank your mileage up your going to be worse off because your getting way less overall training stimulus you really need. Zone 2 is loved by influences since it's catchy, if you still really want to do it read some books (80/20) on it and don't listen to the talking heads. Youll see even proponets of zone 2 say you need that other hard hard stimulus so you can run more while still getting intense sessions in to develop adaptations. Just running your current mileage slower is not the intent.
Hey, I started running around two months ago and have been slowly increasing mileage 10% and adding in tempo runs and intervals. My next step seems like to add in some hill sprints. My current routine is: Tuesday - Easy Run (Zone 2) 6k (+10% each week) Thursday - Intervals (400x12 or 1000x5, switch weekly) Friday - Easy Run (Zone 2) 10k (+10% each week) Sunday - Threshold (6min at half marathon goal pace x 5 with two easy 6mins and one even easier 6min) (increasing mins every two weeks) I am thinking of adding the hill sprints as a replacement for one of my interval sessions every other week. I think the threshold session is the most valuable so I don’t want to switch that up? My current goal is to improve my 10k pb (46mins) and run a half marathon in about 6 months with a fairly decent time. Let me know what you guys think is best. Appreciate all the help!
If you alternate intervals you don't need to take one out, just add hill sprints to the rotation
Hills are good to mix in to a bunch of different types of workouts. Do some hill intervals, add a long hill on an easy run, do a threshold effort up a hill. Don't conflate terrain and effort.
Ahh okay! I include those normally, I thought I might add an extra focused session!
What are everyone's thoughts on video run analysis? My physical therapist's office is offering a package that includes a running analysis to look at 'biomechanics across all phases of the running cycle' as well as a review of running history, injury history, and some mobility/movement assessments. Comes paired with some sort of strength-training/injury avoidance plan (and I believe a session with a PT to review that plan, with a recommendation to schedule more, I'm sure). I've already been to this PT after an injury and got some exercise rehab/prehab recommendations (I have hip dysplasia, so have some running issues). Years ago I got 'analyzed' at a running store (just for shoes purposes) and they basically said 'you seem fine, go for a neutral shoe.' Worth saying that I'm also very, very much an amateur - would love to improve some times but am not coming anywhere near winning any races anytime soon. It sounds very appealing, but since I have a general idea of some exercises I need to do due to some issues I've dealt with in the past, I'm not entirely sure if the value-add would be worth it. At the same time, I've never done ANY sort of form analysis/gait analysis/etc. and am curious (I'm not in a run club and run alone) Thoughts?
Worth trying once, especially if you like working with this PT. I've thought about doing it.
How should I go about firing my running coach? I’m wanting to stop working with my current coach. I’ve been using his coaching for 10 months, although I was injured for 4 of those. During that time there’s been a few red flags and the coaching isn’t worth the money for me. What’s the best way to approach this with him? I really just want to send him a text with a one month notice and not go into details but is that unprofessional? I hate any sort of confrontation and having to do this is stressing me out.
I would probably thank them for their time and say that I now am confident enough to try running on my own/plan my own running.
If you primarily communicate over text that should be fine! People’s situation changes all the time, I wouldn’t stress about it unless you have a big friendship outside of coaching
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That’s what I’m thinking I’ll do but is it bad to do that in a text? 😬😣
Best Half Marathon plan for someone in my circumstances? Had a brief affair with running when Covid first shut down gyms. Late march/ early April i started getting the itch again and began trail running 2-3x a week, long and slow (7-12km per run, so long for me) and doing hill sprints (occasionally with a weighted vest). My previous period of running I was bad at being slow and burnt myself out trying to run at sustained higher HR/ assumed I could effort myself to sub 20 5k without much of an aerobic base, so I have been enjoying being more patient with my fitness and paces this time around. Earlier this week on Tuesday I saw they were setting up a start/ finish line for a 5k right by my house after work and they were still accepting same-day registrations. I ran home and got changed/ grabbed my lone pair of non-trail running shoes and got back just in-time to join the starting group. It was a hilly route and temperatures were hot but I ended up running a 24:04, which is well below my PR from 2021 of 20:15 but I was still happy-ish. I immediately signed up for a half-marathon in early November and dusted off my copy of Daniel's Running Formula. I remember liking the Daniels philosophy but my weekly mileage over the last 8 weeks since I started up again is still only in the 25km range. I do weightlift 5x a week but am willing to curb that to allow for more than 3 runs a week to build higher mileage if I HAVE to (would prefer to keep current training regiment). With 21 weeks until the Half Marathon is that enough time to ramp current mileage up over the next 3-4 then start an 18 week Daniels plan? If not what should I consider? Thanks.
25 km is a fine place got starting to train for a half that far away. However, this is a red flag: > I do weightlift 5x a week but am willing to curb that to allow for more than 3 runs a week to build higher mileage if I HAVE to (would prefer to keep current training regiment). You absolutely need to increase your mileage especially if you want to do well. As you increase mileage, you'll probably find it easier to recover on 4-5 days a week running instead of only 3 days. You can finish a half on 3 runs a week, but you'll do much better with 4-5.
Yea that's understandable, i can certainly do 5 runs a week, I'd just prefer NOT to limit my weightlifting if I can. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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You should probably get checked by a medical professional. I don't know what it could be, but given what you've tried, that sort of pain shouldn't be happening.
Ran my first marathon recently and was not fast whatsoever, but I’m super proud and itching to get faster and stronger for the next one! I recently moved from Apple Watch to a garmin FR 965 and decided to try one of the 5k plans to mix up my training and start to get faster. What I’m struggling with or just curious about is that the easy days built into the plan have pace guidelines that are faster than I’m used to and seem to push my heart rate either to the limit of zone 2 or out of it completely. So I’m just curious; should I keep following the pace guidelines or should I truly run my easy days easy? I have no problem running the paces but all of my running has seemed to be more intense than normal and when I’m not feeling motivated to run they’re definitely more difficult to get done. The plan also has me doing significantly less mileage than I was hoping to maintain as I want to maintain a good amount of my fitness from my marathon training. Any advice is more than appreciated, thanks!
You can just run it easy and ignore what they suggest, or you can change the training to HR for those easy days. But also zone 2 isn't the be all, if it feels easy it's good enough. Run extra runs outside of the plan if you want to run more. Did you tell the program your current/desired mileage at the start?
Yeah I told it I wanted to run about 40km/week, so far it has me running about 25 so maybe it’s going to build up but I’m not sure exactly. Also I didn’t know you could change it to be based on HR instead of pace, do you know where I can make the change?
It's in the settings for training, but I can't remember if it's on the app or in the watch sorry.
I have been seeing a lot on socials about runners having separate shoes for daily training, short runs, long runs, fast runs, 5k/10k, halfs/marathons. Do runners other than elites actually use different runners for different aspects of their training and racing or is it another example of companies trying to get the average person to spend more money?
I'm a 25-30 MPW runner. I have daily trainers. I have trail shoes. And I have fancy carbon racing shoes. For me, I just run in my daily trainers until they disintegrate (or reach 300ish miles, whichever comes first!) then replace them with the same exact shoe. For me, I don't see much of a difference between rotating a few pairs and wearing through one at a time.
I am the very most casual of runners who just runs a lot. I just have about 5 pairs of the exact same shoes that I use for all my runs (switch out if I run 2 days in a row), and 1 pair of trail shoes. That’s been good enough for me for the last 20 years!
For road, I have a pair of shoes that I use as daily trainers (Topo, forget the model) and a pair with a nylon plate (Saucony endorphin speed) that I use for races. I don't particularly like the feel of the Sauconys for slower runs but I'll do tempo runs in them especially leading up to a race. I'll switch to the other pair if I do road runs on back to back days (which is uncommon since I'll try to do one of them on dirt). For trail, I have \~ 4 pairs of shoes with different uppers and lug patterns for different conditions, e.g. hard dirt, mud, rain/snow, rocky trails, etc... I also use all of those shoes for hiking.
Yes, absolutely many dedicated but decidedly NOT elite runners mix up their shoes. You don't need to but there's basically only benefits to doing so. - if you run in the rain, you have dry shoes for tomorrow - different shoes to suit your mood or needs - softer shoes for recovery days, faster shoes for intervals - plated shoes for racing if you're into that - different shoes fit differently and sometimes it's good to mix it up - sometimes it's just fun to have different colours
Absolutely the latter. There's something to rotating 2 pairs(Drying out, seen some reports about them lasting a bit longer). The super shoes worth is all about your pace. As they study more on the average runner, they're showing minimal effect to even being worse than a regular trainer.
Probably a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. I'm a 6 days of the week runner and I use a 3-shoe rotation. For regular easy runs I use a heavier neutral medium cushioned shoe like the brooks ghost, for tempo and interval days I use a lightweight low cushioned shoe that is more responsive like the saucony kinvara, and for long runs I use a heavier plush shoe for maximum comfort like the saucony triumph. It's not at all necessary to split it up like this, but I find when I am running 6 days a week, 24 hours often isn't enough time for my shoes to dry out and I really don't want to get up and run at 4 am with soggy shoes.
For the first couple of years I ran I had just one pair of shoes at a time and it was absolutely fine. You do not need more than one pair. But even though I am in no way elite I do now enjoy using different shoes for different runs. I have a pair of cushioned but heavier shoes for easy days, a lighter more responsive pair for speed work, and a pair of carbon plate super shoes for race day. Again, this is totally unnecessary, especially the super shoes, but
Having multiple pairs of shoes isn't any more expensive than filling up your car when your tank is half full instead of empty (i.e. not at all). > Do runners other than elites actually use different runners for different aspects of their training Yes. It's also not mandatory.
I posted a comment yesterday but I'm hoping for a wider reach. Long story short, I've been running for just over a month now, every 2 days with a 5k parkrun on Saturday. So Tuesday training Thursday training Saturday parkrun My training consists of low heart rate training, and whether it's a slow pace or a fast pace, 20 to 25 mins into my run my feet start going numb (more so on my left foot). I've spoken to people and people seem baffled and think it could be the trainer (even though these were the number 1 recommended shoe to me based on a 3d scan of my feet - in store) I bought some sauconoys which are a similar fit but a bit more Instep room which will hopefully fix it. But I've just youtubed it and there's videos to lace the shoe differently to prevent numbness... so this is obviously quite common right? All I want to know is if anyone ever went through this, and how did they fix it? Thanks in advance
Try doing heel lock lacing to secure your heel and then loosening the laces over the midfoot. Make sure your toes have room to spread as well. Don't wear socks that are too thick.
a lot of people purchase running shoes in their walking shoe size, which, like, i get — but when we run, our feet swell up various amounts depending on our personal physiology. i wear 11.5s in walking around shoes, and experienced some extremity numbness — and when i started consistently running over 4 miles, a black toenail — when i wore size 11.5 running shoes. i switched to buying 12s across a few brands (adidas and saucony mostly), and i haven’t had any issues since. i ran like 1500 miles last year and my toes look great (humblebrag). so what i’m trying to say is — a shoe store can recommend a shoe, but they can’t tell you what fits *your* body. at the end of the day, it’s a recommendation. i’d try running on a treadmill at a store in a size 1/2 up from what you usually buy, and see how that affects the feel on your foot. (they probably won’t let you go for like 20 minutes, but what you’re testing is if a half-size up feels workable on your foot or not.) my ratio of shoes tried on to shoes enjoyed is hovering around 1:6, so don’t feel like you’re weird for experimenting with lots of options — it can take a second to find what works for you & your specific foot shape.
Also thanks for taking time out to help, I'm new to running and want this to be my life, not just a hobby...
This is amazing advice, my issue is as a new runner, I have no idea what good is meant to feel like vs not good, until I'm 20 mins into a run and I feel like I have an iron boot on. For now, I've laced my running trainers differently, leaving a gap on the top of my foot, I have a run tomorrow, which I will test them out on. Then I'm a few days my sauconys should arrive, and I can test them, and if it's still happening, then I need to go up half a size.
This is possibly more suited to the stupid questions thread but I might as well ask it here: what's a good way for a beginner to learn about pacing a race? For info, I have been running for one year. I run four times a week for 35 mins, always at an easy pace (usually about 6:45/km), and have recently started doing some speed drills (hill sprints, strides) twice a week at the end of an easy run. Today I thought I'd test myself and try to 'race' a 5k, and I had to stop at 4.5k because I was pushing too hard and gave myself a headache. I had done the 4.5k in 23:51. I guess my problem is that I don't have a lot of speed endurance, but I also have no idea what my 'too hard' effort feels like compared to my 'hard enough' effort. Does that make any sense? I'll chalk this up as a learning experience, and perhaps aim to 'race' a 5k again in a couple of months time, but how do I know what pace/finish time to aim for when I'm a beginner and I have no idea what I'm capable of? Thanks!
It's experience. A 5k is a sufferfest. If you race a 5k to your full potential you will feel like you're dying by the end. For me, it's the fine line between going as hard as I can and not actually making myself sick.
OK that's useful to know, thank you
You aren't supposed to feel good at the end of a 5k. You just gave up when you should have pushed through. a 26 minute 5k is a decent times. Honestly run the same pace and don't give up because of mild discomfort.
Will try again next time, thanks!
Practice and trial and error.
Thanks, I definitely learnt something on this run so will try again next time!
one way to test what your body’s capable of is by breaking the distance into smaller bits, running those bits, and trying to sync your body’s effort level with the pace you’re shooting for. this is the essence of the tempo run — a less-than-total trial version of the distance you want, to train your body to *listen* to itself. (as opposed to intervals, which are about adding higher (lower? i mean *faster*) gears to your gearbox, metaphorically speaking). so, given that you’re training for a 5k, your test workout can look like: - warm up for \~2 km at your easy pace and then repeat this 3x: - 1k @ your 5k goal (seems to be between 5:20 and 5:40 currently, for a total time between \~27 and 28 min) - 0.5k easy if you can run the last 1k at the same speed you ran the first 1k (or, ideally, faster), then *that* pace is a good indication of your 5k fitness *while racing*. (my philosophy is that workouts should drain the tank 80-90%, but leave yourself room for recovery; in contrast, i like racing at 100% effort, trying to leave nothing on the table.) in contrast, if you find yourself slowing down meaningfully between each 1k, then that pace is probably over your current level of fitness — so rest, recover, and 4-5 days later, you could re-attempt at a slower race pace. rinse & repeat until you find what your body is capable of, and then start building from there :) as a side note: if you couldn’t finish a 5k at \~5:40/km pace, i think you may be overestimating your easy pace. my 5k pace is \~4:10/km, and my easy pace is between 5:20/km and 5:45/km, depending on how hot the day is. i’d generally expect there to be about 60-90s of separation between one’s easy and 5k pace — that’s not a hard and fast rule, but it *can* be a good indicator that your “gearbox” is small — and slowing down on easy runs is a great way to start to build out that gearbox.
OK this is really interesting and I'll give it a go soon, thank you!
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I'd suggest every other day and see how you feel in a few weeks. Later on it'll depend on your goals, if you're doing a warmup run before other workouts then every day isn't bad but if you're training and increasing mileage you'll want some recovery days.
Two or three days a week is good. Do some stretches afterward. Keep it fun. You can probably stick to three days per week indefinitely and simply increase the mileage over the next several months. You might have knee pain as your muscles adjust to the new stresses but it will almost certainly go away after a couple weeks.
Definitely do not run every day at the start. It’s not specifically bad for your knees, but your whole body and all your joints need time to adjust. Check out some beginner training plans to get an idea of safe increases in mileage over time. As a beginner you’ll probably want to avoid having too many back to back running days, start with maybe 3 days per week and go easy, start with a short distance like 1-2 miles at a time.
This may be the wrong thread to ask this, but Parker Valby won the 10k at Nationals wearing Nike Vaporfly spikes. I googled them and don’t see any. I’m not gonna buy some as I have no need for them, but are they custom made? Are they just not sold online? I have never seen these before. (@citiusmag on instagram posted them if you wanna see for yourself)
I don't have an Instagram account and am not going to try and see whatever that person posted, but I think they're probably mixing up names. The Vaporfly is Nike's road shoe for marathon. They make a lighter, thinner-soled version called the Streakfly specialized for 5k/10k. I wasn't paying huge attention to Parker's shoes yesterday, but my wife was commenting that all the runners seemed to have pink shoes and I noticed Parker was wearing white shoes. Looking at Nike's lineup right now, I think they were probably the Dragonfly, their track spike version of the "fly" models for long distance. The Maxfly is the version for sprints.
I'm trying to train for a 5k but i am only most consistently able to run with my baby in a jogging stroller. My friend and I have a goal to do under 40 min and the race is June 23, so I need to reach 8 min/km as an average. Today I did a practice 5k pushing my stroller and managed to average 8.2 minutes/km. Could the extra effort of running with the stroller be a good thing for me? Or just something I have to tolerate?
I have seen plenty of runners race quickly with a stroller. Once it gets rolling, a proper running stroller won't hold you back much at all (assuming no hills). If you are doing hills then it will give you extra training stimulus and slow you down.
Thank you! The practice I just mentioned was on a flat track indoors. Outdoors there are hills but I tend to time my break stretches to coincide with the steep inclines. Glad to know this is at least not detrimental :)
How much time does it usually take to recover from a half? It's been almost 3 weeks since I ran a HM and my legs are still feeling dead on my runs. I took 2 days off after the race and then eased back in with some shorter, easier runs averaging about 20 mpw (was at 40 during the training cycle). I've had 1 or 2 runs that have felt okay but for the most part my legs still feel super sore and tired, especially in my quads when I run or go downstairs. It doesn't feel painful like an injury, just tired and like there is no spring in them. Any ideas how to fix this? I'm willing to take a few days off at this point if it might make it better.
I've typically taken a full week off after HMs, just a few short spin sessions and walks to keep the blood flowing. I'll wait until I get the antsy feeling back in my legs and then start running again.
It took a good month to feel normal again after my first half. I was undertrained for the race and pushed myself really hard during the race. I've since run 3 full marathons and several more halfs, but I've never felt worse than I did after that first half. These days it takes me about a week, maybe two, after I race a half to feel normal again physically. All that to say- it really varies. It sounds to me like you need a little more recovery time. I've always found it helpful, both physically and mentally, to take a week off completely after a goal half or full. So maybe 2 days off just wasn't quite enough for you? I'd take another couple of days off of running, maybe do some walking instead and see if you start to feel better.
Usually if I raced really hard it'll take me a week or two to feel back to where I was. You could try walking or easy cycling instead of running during recovery.
New runner here. Started walk/running in November 2023, and I've now been jogging nonstop 3.5-4.5 miles twice a week since mid-February. My garmin watch says I'm consistently in the zone 5 ("maximum" per garmin) for the entire jog. I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, but I do manage to nose breathe the entire time so I'm certainly not gasping for air by any means, and it's not miserable. I'm interested in trying the "run slower to run longer/faster" thing, but in order to keep my heart rate in zone 3 ("aerobic" per garmin), I need to either just power walk or do a mix of power walking/shuffling - either is fine and I know it's going to feel really slow. I find, however, that even at the same speed, shuffling seems to raise my heart rate more than power walking. Is that normal? Is there something about shuffling that is more taxing than power walking, even when both are done at the same speed? Is it worth it for me to even shuffle at all so long as I am in the aerobic zone, or should I exclusively power walk for now? Or should I just continue jogging nonstop even if I'm in zone 5 so long as I'm not hating it, and trust that with time my heart rate will fall? Thank you in advance.
Just run by feel. Chances are your zones and max heart rate are likely wrong in Garmin. Also, the optical heart rate sensors on watches can be pretty inaccurate.
> Is it worth it for me to even shuffle at all so long as I am in the aerobic zone, or should I exclusively power walk for now? Neither of those is worth it. You're only running 8ish miles per week so there's no reason to go slower. If you said something like "I'd like to run 6 miles but can't go farther than 4" then maybe slowing down would be good advice but if you are able to run the mileage you want to run and "not be miserable" while doing it, then slowing down isn't going to help you.
Oh I actually would like to get to a long where I could do a 10k race at some point in the future. Sorry, should've mentioned that.
Stop with the nose breathing, there’s no benefit to it, you’re just getting in less oxygen and making it way harder than it needs to be. You’re a new runner, so don’t even think about zone training. Your HR zones are likely wrong anyway, and as a new runner at lower mileages you don’t even need to worry about that. Just run by feel.
Why are you nose breathing? Just makes it a bit harder. I ran in zone 5 until I could do a decent pace in zone 4. Then I ran in zone 4 until I could do a decent pace in zone 3.
I started the nose breathing thing many years ago when I started hiking. I found that once I started to breathe through my mouth, I would end up panting and that would very quickly lead gasping which was kind of miserable and I would have to completely stop moving in order to catch my breath, and that just wasn't practical on busy hiking trails, but maybe isn't as much of an issue on the sidewalk. I'll go by feel for the next few months, and so long as I'm not miserable, I'll assume all is well. Thanks!
Are you using a chest strap heart rate monitor? The watch can often be inaccurate. You can find strap heart rate monitors on Amazon for less than $100. It’s a worthwhile piece of equipment to have.
I'm training for Chi marathon in October and I'm goign to buy a new set of daily runners - I already have the Asics Superblast - what shoe would you recommend for a daily runner to complement? I do like the Asics lineup but doesn't need to be in the family
Shoe fit is really specific to the person, go to a local running store and try on a bunch of pairs to see what works for you.
Doing 2 interval runs and 2 long runs instead of 1 interval run and 3 long runs? I'm training for a fast 2 mile for the military, hopefully in the 14-minute range. For the last 2 months, I've been running 3 long zone 2 runs and 1 8x400m interval workout. I've gotten better at running longer distances, running over 5 miles per run, but my pace hasn't gotten better, still hovering at around 11 minutes for zone 2 runs and around a 8 minute pace for the intervals and 1 mile, which is where I originally was at. I'm debating ditching the third long run for another interval day, maybe Norwegian 4x4, to work on my speed and running distances longer than 400m. I know 80% of my runs should be long, easy runs, but I haven't been getting good results with this. I can run a little further, but my pace is the same despite 20% of my runs being speed/interval runs where I am actually trying. Any thoughts on this? Any recommendations?
Yeah do more intervals and/or tempo work. I like fartleks over intervals with breaks since you have to balance pace with needing to recover while still running.
What would be a good fartlek workout? I looked it up but got mixed answers.
By nature they're flexible. The basic idea is just to run at different levels of effort over the course of a run, no stopping. I usually do them on a 5 mile route with 4 or 5 sections of about half a mile each at \~ threshold effort. Some sections are hills, some are flat. Some sections are close together so you get less recovery time. Make sure you warm up properly before a fast section. The goal is to push yourself hard and then recover at your normal easy run pace. When you're starting out you can do fewer or shorter sections, then gradually lengthen them or add more sections in.
Why does my average pace on Strava get faster when I take walking breaks vs running the entire route? I went from 9:24 to 8:36 for seemingly no reason. Cadence was 169 on the full run, 170 on the run with breaks.
Was the higher pace recording the full run/walk? I think by default that Strava shows run pace and leaves out walk breaks or stops. You need to look at the average elapsed pace to see pace for the full time. With that said, the walk breaks help you recover during the full effort. The Galloway method is famous for it's run/walk approach and people have recorded competitive marathon times using it.
The higher pace was during the walking break run. I'm sure you're right about recovery helping with speed during the running part, I just didn't think it would shave off that much time. It certainly doesn't feel any faster. I've made a lot of progress in eliminating walk breaks from my runs, so it's a bit disheartening to see that I'm faster overall when I take them. I get that it's valid method, but it in my head I feel like less of a runner. I'm also just using Strava on my phone with no watch, so I only see the results after I'm done. It might be time to get a Garmin so I can track better.
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Is there a half marathon version of 18/55?
There's a 12/47 plan for Half Marathon in his Faster Road Racing Book.
Faster Road Racing has 12 week Pfitz half marathon plans that peak at 47 and 63 miles. It also has base 10-week base-building plans to work up to 30/45/60 miles per week. You could push one of these to the start to make it 22/47 or 22/63. (Or only take the last 6 weeks of one if you're adamant about having an 18 week Pfitz plan that is half-marathon specific).
Hello!! I want to run a half marathon on the road in two months. I am a beginner trail runner, and I have run 21 km in the mountains before. My idea is not to compete or anything like that, just to reach the finish line, which I assume will take me around 2 hours and 20 minutes. Do you think I will have any problems doing this? Any similar experiences?
I mostly did (and still do) trail runs for fun before running road HMs (my friends only run road). It's very doable, you should be fine. My road times are all faster than my trail times. A few things: * Don't run on the road in trail shoes, they don't have enough padding and you'll destroy your feet. * Build up mileage slowly on the road like everyone else says, it really is much harder on your body. * The terrain doesn't dictate your pace as much in road running, so you need to actively be thinking about it. Pace changes feel very subtle compared to trail. * Do some form running, think about maintaining a high cadence, etc... again, because you're not responding to the terrain, any bad habits are more likely to cause injuries because you do them non-stop. * Make sure you have podcasts or music because doing the same thing for 2+ hours gets so, so boring. * Watch out around aid stops, everyone becomes an idiot and steps on each others heels, runs into each other, slips, throws half full water cups around, etc... it's a total zoo compared to trail race aid stations.
Start running regularly on roads, starting small, so your legs can build up the strength needed to handle pavement.
I was initially a trail runner and then went to road running. My biggest issues were the impact of the pavement on my legs. It's much harder on them than the soft dirt/roots/grass. There was a short adjustment period where my calves and quads took a beating and were a little sore but nothing that unusual!
**Where do you guys do interval training?** I want to start doing speed work but the nearest track I can find is a half hour ride in the metro. Would it be safe to do 4x400 sessions on uneven sidewalk?
I do mine on paved trails or sidewalks. Of course, pay attention to where you put your feet.
I almost always do mind on asphalt streets which have little camber and low vehicular traffic. I use my watch's manual lap feature so 400s are usually actually between 0.25 and 0.26 miles. Due to duration of jogging recovery intervals I typically end up running in two directions on the street on what are not quite the same segments and on longer intervals there's sometimes mild elevation change. I've tried sidewalks, but even when they're not sloping and don't have parts pushed up from roots I risk coming close to walkers side by side and dogs on leashes.
If I can’t make it to the track, my area has a paved path that is marked every quarter of a mile. Even if it’s not marked, if you can find a path like this, something like that is a good option as long as it’s not too crowded.
I do my speed work on uneven paved/gravel paths in a local park, it's not ideal but I think it's safe. Just do your best to find a relatively flat/even spot to do the repeats on. Depending on local traffic you could run in the road right next to the footpath, facing traffic so you could hop back onto the path if needed?
Good morning gents! First and foremost, I'd like to wish everyone a great Friyay and weekend! I've got a question regarding running first thing in the morning, and I'm hoping you can enlighten me! For a bit of context, I've been running 3x/week (used to run 2x/week until a month ago) for about a year and a half. Started running to lose weight and fell in love with the activity. At the moment, my "comfortable" pace, that is, the Zone 2 pace is around 5:35/KM, and I can push it to 4:50/KM when I want to go "fast". I usually start running after work at 5:00PM and I feel fine throughout the course, with the usual tiredness one gets from running, depending on the pace. However, lately I've tried running first thing in the morning, always fasted (my last meal is usually at 8:00PM) but even going at a 6:30/KM pace I feel like I'm completely out of breath by the end of the session and, overall, it's a very exhaustive process - I also noticed that I sweat a lot more in the morning than I do when running in the afternoon. Is this because my body is just not used to running in the morning? Or is it because I'm fasted? Would this improve if I keep being consistent with running in the morning? Thank you!
If you're new to exercising fasted, it's possible you need to adjust to morning activity so you get used to it. I'm 5:15AM club right now but for years I didn't eat until lunch, Right now I have nothing more than than wake up, dress, put on shoes, brush teeth, have a sip of water and go. 15 minutes into the run I'll start hitting my stride, but warming up does take a while. Evenings I'm much slower at any given heart rate, mainly due to the heat and being worn out from the day, but feel like I get to my pace of the day quicker then in the mornings.
I suppose you're right, and I need to get used to it. I'm quite okay when running in the evenings, I can hit my stride quite early into the run and just sail from there. In the morning, I feel like I barely hit the stride, lol!
Are your pace numbers correct? Km/h is a bit of an odd way to show pace. Your numbers are actually slower when you say you're going faster (4:50 kph is slower than 5:35 kph), so I think you've got your units mixed up. Minutes per Km and Minutes per Mile is what people usually use. So I'm going to assume you mean min/K (8:56 min/mile and 7:47 min/mile respectively). The 7:47 one is kind of fast for a training run, IMO. I personally only go that fast in Races. That out of the way, questions! First, how far are you running? There's a bit of a difference between running 3 miles and running 10 miles. And are you running the whole time? Second, are you bringing water? Sounds like there's no food, but especially this time of the year water can make a big difference. The humidity is murder right now. I used to run only in the morning. Did that for almost two years, before a job change took my mornings away. Now I run in the late afternoon or late evening during the week, and mornings on the weekends. I find I am the opposite from you. I'm exhausted after the evening runs, but feel better after the morning runs. Even when the morning runs are 10-16 miles. But I always bring water (even during the winter). For the morning runs I also always eat a clif bar before heading out. And I bring a gel for anything 10 miles and longer. For the evening runs I eat a clif bar if the run is before dinner, but after dinner I don't have the bar. I would also suggest that if you are "completely out of breath" after a training run, you are going too fast. Slow down. Advice you will see online is that you should be able to have a conversation when running at "training pace". Exceptions would be if you are doing track/speed work or if you're doing a threshold run. But you probably shouldn't be doing those every day.
First of all, thank you for responding! Thank you for pointing out the way I displayed the pace - it was a lack of attention - I've corrected it now, indeed I meant to use Minutes per KM. In the morning I am exclusively running 5KM ( approximately 3.1 miles), but in the afternoon I usually do Mon 5KM / Wed 10KM (\~6.2 miles) / Fri 5KM, and I'd like to do the same in the morning. Not very long distances yet, I'm working on it though! Yes, I am running the whole time. Nope I usually never bring water with me. I find that bringing a bottle of water gets in the way when I'm running. I usually just drink a glass of water before heading out. What is this "gel" that you speak of when running more than 10 miles? Lastly, I usually don't run out of breath even when going at faster paces in the afternoon, it's only in the morning, even when going slower (which would be "training pace") I run out of breath!
A gel is an Energy Gel. People use them for longer distances. But I don't think you would need one for a 5K or a 10K. I personally use them for Halfs and above. I can understand the water too. I actually don't always bring water when I do 5K training runs. I don't bring a bottle though, I have a camelbak backpack that I use for anything over 5K. I would consider maybe eating something like a clif bar before the morning runs, as it sounds like you're body is not liking the totally fasted run. The only other thing is to keep trying. Your body should adapt at some point. Lots of races are in the morning (if you're looking at doing a race that is), so it would be good to be used to morning runs.
You could also try a gel and/or sports drink if you feel like you can’t eat before running - for me, if I’m eating actual food, it has to be more than an hour before a run
What would you consider actual food before a run? A whole meal, or a snack?
Personally i also run better when i’ve eaten something, especially if i’m running for more than 5km. Bigger issue than eating though for me is hydration: if i run first thing in the morning, i’m normally quite dehydrated, and chugging 0.5l right before the run doesn’t help much. After a couple of minutes my mouth already feels dry. Drinking 0.5l right when i wake up, and then up to 0.5l right before the run helps a bit. When i go running in the evening, i’ve already drunk 2-3l that day and i really notice it. Of course everyone is different, people tell me all the time they feel nauseous if they were to eat and drink right before a run as much as i do, but it works for me
In my experience I can’t run fasted anymore like I could when I was younger. For my early runs I do peanut butter and toast before I walk out the door with some water, and by the time I get to my location and stretched out it’s probably been 30ish minutes and I can do my normal efforts without any gastric issues. You might just have to find something that works for you in that regard.
Thank you! I'm "afraid" of running shortly after eating, as I want to avoid feeling sick during/after the workout. But maybe next week I'll give it a try and see how it turns out. Thank you!
I totally get it I was super leery about doing any running after I ate, but with a little trial and error and training my guts it’s worked out much better to run with a little fuel in my system.
Awesome haha! I will definitely try this, thank you for your input.
I'm confused about adding up more mileage in regards when it should be done. I'm training for marathon in October. For last few months I've been doing E runs and building up mileage (at 45 KmPW) and i started doing 1Q run a week, along with L (running x5 currently, L, Q 3xE). I thought I would be adding more miles/Kms every 3-4 weeks until it peaks few weeks before the marathon, but adding it along other stressors isnt recommended. I've been reading and following along Daniels book, if it helps. Should I have reaced my max KmPW in base building phase? Is it bad practice and injury prone to add more miles when i start adding other stressors? What would you do in my situation; I wanted to peak at ~80 KmPW for 1-2 weeks prior to tapering.
> Should I have reaced my max KmPW in base building phase? Not necessary. > Is it bad practice and injury prone to add more miles when i start adding other stressors? Not necessarily. You can raise volume while maintaining some intensity, assuming you are able to rest and recover in your schedule. > What would you do in my situation Push volume up as soon as possible. If some speedwork has to be temporarily sacrificed then that's fine. I would much rather hold higher volume for many months when leading up to a marathon than only hold high volume for a small handful of weeks. The volume and the long runs are your keys to success.
So I’m trying to get into long distance running but I’ve never been very good at it. Yesterday I ran 1 mile and today I was able to get 3 miles. The only problem is that I can only run for 3-5 minutes at a time so my miles are split up into a bunch of short runs. I guess my main question is, am I losing any benefits from running by doing this? Or is this just something that will get better over time? I’m only 18 and I played football, baseball, and ran track (sprinted, never ran anything over 200m) from ages 4-17 and was very good at all 3. So I feel like it’s not a question of athleticism. I was thinking maybe because all 3 of those sports really only involved sprinting and I just never got used to running for long amounts of time at once. But I’d just like to hear from people who know more about this than I do.
Miles split up into a bunch of short runs is basically interval training, which should be good. But you probably need to listen to your body and slow down to not burn out.
if you have an athletic background and you can only run for 3-5 minutes at a time, I can almost promise you are just trying to run too fast. Distance running is much slower than you will be used to running for those other sports. Try deliberately jogging at a pace where you can sing a tune without gasping for breath too much. It'll feel ridiculously slow, but that's a normal training pace for most people.
Alternating running and walking is basically how Couch to 5k works, and it's a great way to build up your running time. If you find one of the free C25K plans, you can probably skip forward a few weeks to the 5-min runs and then follow it from there. It builds up to 30 min runs very quickly, and helps you make a habit of getting out to run several times a week.
You’re approaching it the right way. That’s how most of us initially built up our running. And 3 miles is awesome. I’m sure you’ll be running the full distance in a few weeks.
How do I subscribe to the US Runners World site? I'm in Australia and it doesn't seem to have an option for subscribers outside of US/Canada. Anyone else had this issue/resolved it? The Aussie version of Runnersworld seems pretty stripped down and lacks heaps of the resources of the US equivalent, otherwise I'd just subscribe to it.