If the Diamond District doesn't get approved this is only a taste of what's to come. Going back to the drawing board would be a nightmare for that area. The article mentioning Thalhimer selling in part due to shifting timelines makes me think the City realizes they're on a very tight schedule now.
I’m pretty sure all the legal challenges have been handled so thankfully all they need to do now is just issue the bonds which have also been approved by city council. I agree that they need to get a move on it though.
If you forget to activate car wash mode in the cybertruck and you run it through a wash, you void the warranty. And it probably kills the truck too btw.
A Thalhimer built “luxury” apartment building isn’t what’s needed to solve a housing crisis. It might help bring down the statistics of a “housing shortage” by upping available units, but add a couple dozen more overpriced apartments does little to alleviate the problem.
There is an argument to be made that increasing the inventory of higher priced housing will allow those who can to move into nicer housing making their older less expensive housing available for someone else.
That isn't always the case since people can move laterally or even down the luxury scale but it is still a valid argument even if it stinks of trickle down economics.
Okay, but then wouldn't more healthcare facilities increase the inventory of doctors and medical services, and thus drive down the price of healthcare?
Sure, HCA is a huge for-profit, Fortune 500 corporation. But so is Cushman & Wakefield Thalhimer.
This is what Thalhimer does. They buy real estate as an investment. They are not committed to creating cheap housing, or even housing in general.
They bought the land for $2m two years ago and sold it for $5.15m. That's tidy profit. The only thing that would make them convert the land to housing is if the city somehow made an apartment building on that property worth more than $5.15m... on the city's dime. And why should we do that?
A big developer sells land to big healthcare provider. If you want to be all free-market NIMBY about it, it's a private market transaction that now frees up land for the highest value use. Thalhimer was just sitting on that land, now it's being sold to someone who will use it
I just don't understand the weird gyrations people will go through when it comes to housing. Why are we so in favor of trickle down housing but won't apply the same arguments to taxes or healthcare?
I pretty much agree with you on everything except the notion that trickle down anything actually works as promised. I was mostly just pointing out that adding luxury housing could still be a benefit to people looking for cheaper housing. Certainly not the fastest way to improve the lives of the needy and it's definitely not high up on what I think should be the priority list.
But yeah I tend to agree that the market will dictate the highest and best use for real estate. The caveat is that shareholder value is the first priority of companies, not the health of the community they do business in, and the market tends to focus on a shorter timeframe than municipalities.
So there needs to be a balance somewhere. We see time and time again that unchecked free market capitalists swindle us with promises of reduced costs and better services as they consolidate only to turn around and hike prices once they have monopolistic power. HCA and Bon Secours are great examples of that.
So should the city make up the $3 million spread to make it a viable residential development? Nah, there's plenty of other properties that can be developed for that money. But the city should definitely be making those investments somewhere.
We also need to acknowledge that the surrounding counties have a part to play in this housing crisis. Goochland and Powhatan like their 10 acre lots. Henrico is afraid of the boogyman using mass transit to rob them. Chesterfield is pushing hard for upper middle class developments and manufacturing. Very little support in the way of affordable housing all around.
As someone who was in a city undergoing similar revitalization of certain areas (San Diego in the mid to late aughts) what tended to happen was those houses that people moved out of were either bought up by real estate investors and then used to make more luxury apartments which then pushed more people of lower income out of the city areas (hillcrest north/south park midway) and into places like chula vista, Santee, and Kearny Mesa.
I'm not saying San Diego and Richmond are a 1:1 comparison. I'm stating my personal observations that this is what tended to happen.
This is going to probably be a hot take but I've also lived in Berlin for a time and they leaned into rent control and rent freezes to help with the rising housing costs. While not perfect it did hit the pause button on the problem. (They froze rent for 3 or 5 years I think in 2018 or 2019)
Either way while luxury apartments sound wonderful on paper to me they behave in the same way as adding more lanes to a highway to reduce traffic. They just create more traffic.
I would mostly agree. Housing is a complex problem and new luxury housing won't solve much of it. We need to find a way to get inflation, including housing costs, under control. We also need more affordable housing and support for voucher programs. I'm a landlord so I have some mixed feelings on the issue but I will say my insurance and taxes are pretty ridiculous and getting good reliable contractors to fix things is even more expensive.
I’d say what’s more likely is that it will cause an influx of higher income earners who are relocating from more expensive areas to move to Richmond. Of course that’s already happening… so it’s just more of the same.
Yeah unfortunately that's already happening. So we're already at a supply deficit within our market and then we have the additional external demand to deal with. At this point, any housing is good. But I would agree that we should incentivize affordable housing before luxury housing.
150 units is not a small development especially when you are partially offsetting the demand of new workers who will be working in the hospital. Richmond is also missing out on the direct and indirect tax revenue from the scrapped tower.
Extra supply will always help in general. The market will set the price they can rent for. The more supply, the more options folks will have and the more competitive rates will become.
If they CHOSE not build it, the demand was never there in the first place, and the supply is not being artificially constrained.
But go on, keep drawing those bullshit supply and demand curves.
Yes, what this is telling you is that developers/land holders are not building housings for reasons other than zoning.
They COULD have built a mega apartment with restaurant/retail on the first floor. They did not.
It suggests that the demand for housing and "walkable neighborhoods" is not what people think it is. If that's true, housing supply won't necessarily increase the way people want, and nothing can trickle down if you aren't getting the increased housing supply expected.
What is happening here is the result of the policy that people demanded. The Leopards are eating their faces and incredibly, they still haven't figured it out.
The whole YIMBY thing relies on their insistence that supply is artificially constricted. That every one would be building housing if only the restrictions are removed. People like yourself drawing ridiculous perfectly inelastic supply curve.
It turns out, the market demand isn't quite what people thought, and is coming to bite them in the ass. Which is what happens when you idiotically ignore demand and focus only on supply.
>Yes, what this is telling you is that developers/land holders are not building housings for reasons other than zoning.
everybody understands that. but rva doesn't control interest rates, or tariffs, or immigration, or other broad economic inpacts.
but it does have direct control over permitting costs, delays, zoning, etc.
>
he whole YIMBY thing relies on their insistence that supply is artificially constricted. That every one would be building housing if only the restrictions are removed.
There are [margins where that is the case](https://www.planetizen.com/files/inline-images/Fig2%5B1%5D.jpg)
It doesn't mean *every* lot and *every* proposed project is viable. don't be weird about it
>Which is what happens when you idiotically ignore demand and focus only on supply.
the whole point of upzoning is to increasingly expose supply to market forces, as demand is. we don't want to add any additional regulatory costs to the already fixed costs firms face
Nothing - it's sold to VCU and will (hopefully) soon be demolished as part of it's future Athletic Village plan.
https://www.12onyourside.com/2022/06/14/virginia-abc-sells-former-warehouse-vcu/
They were just using it for Pharrell's new musical film "Atlantis". I heard form someone on the production that there's a bunch of film folks who want to turn it into a soundstage. If VCU owns it, they wont be letting it go.
Dope! Where can I apply for a job?
That was Tommie Chong’s solution to hunger - just give every one a job in the movies - they always need someone to stand there or do whatever 😆
For real I need a job tho
I think they’re filming a movie there, lots of old cars in the parking lot, tents set up every once in awhile, no parking on the street in front of the building
If the Diamond District doesn't get approved this is only a taste of what's to come. Going back to the drawing board would be a nightmare for that area. The article mentioning Thalhimer selling in part due to shifting timelines makes me think the City realizes they're on a very tight schedule now.
I’m pretty sure all the legal challenges have been handled so thankfully all they need to do now is just issue the bonds which have also been approved by city council. I agree that they need to get a move on it though.
"Shit or get off the pot," as the next fellow in line would say.
Sure like hca needs more land
Interested rates and construction costs are so high now.
Interest rates are historically average right now.
20 years from now the the only industry around will be healthcare.
And vape shops.
And car washes, unless everyone is driving a Tesla
Can teslas not get car washes?
If you forget to activate car wash mode in the cybertruck and you run it through a wash, you void the warranty. And it probably kills the truck too btw.
They highly recommend against it and the owner manuals says to hand wash only
Had no idea. Today I learned!
Oh sure. Cancel putting in more apartments in the city. It isn't like there is a housing crisis in this city. 🙄
Blame interest rates. It’s becoming near impossible to start large scale new construction. The projects getting built now already had funding lined up
A Thalhimer built “luxury” apartment building isn’t what’s needed to solve a housing crisis. It might help bring down the statistics of a “housing shortage” by upping available units, but add a couple dozen more overpriced apartments does little to alleviate the problem.
There is an argument to be made that increasing the inventory of higher priced housing will allow those who can to move into nicer housing making their older less expensive housing available for someone else. That isn't always the case since people can move laterally or even down the luxury scale but it is still a valid argument even if it stinks of trickle down economics.
Okay, but then wouldn't more healthcare facilities increase the inventory of doctors and medical services, and thus drive down the price of healthcare? Sure, HCA is a huge for-profit, Fortune 500 corporation. But so is Cushman & Wakefield Thalhimer. This is what Thalhimer does. They buy real estate as an investment. They are not committed to creating cheap housing, or even housing in general. They bought the land for $2m two years ago and sold it for $5.15m. That's tidy profit. The only thing that would make them convert the land to housing is if the city somehow made an apartment building on that property worth more than $5.15m... on the city's dime. And why should we do that? A big developer sells land to big healthcare provider. If you want to be all free-market NIMBY about it, it's a private market transaction that now frees up land for the highest value use. Thalhimer was just sitting on that land, now it's being sold to someone who will use it I just don't understand the weird gyrations people will go through when it comes to housing. Why are we so in favor of trickle down housing but won't apply the same arguments to taxes or healthcare?
I pretty much agree with you on everything except the notion that trickle down anything actually works as promised. I was mostly just pointing out that adding luxury housing could still be a benefit to people looking for cheaper housing. Certainly not the fastest way to improve the lives of the needy and it's definitely not high up on what I think should be the priority list. But yeah I tend to agree that the market will dictate the highest and best use for real estate. The caveat is that shareholder value is the first priority of companies, not the health of the community they do business in, and the market tends to focus on a shorter timeframe than municipalities. So there needs to be a balance somewhere. We see time and time again that unchecked free market capitalists swindle us with promises of reduced costs and better services as they consolidate only to turn around and hike prices once they have monopolistic power. HCA and Bon Secours are great examples of that. So should the city make up the $3 million spread to make it a viable residential development? Nah, there's plenty of other properties that can be developed for that money. But the city should definitely be making those investments somewhere. We also need to acknowledge that the surrounding counties have a part to play in this housing crisis. Goochland and Powhatan like their 10 acre lots. Henrico is afraid of the boogyman using mass transit to rob them. Chesterfield is pushing hard for upper middle class developments and manufacturing. Very little support in the way of affordable housing all around.
As someone who was in a city undergoing similar revitalization of certain areas (San Diego in the mid to late aughts) what tended to happen was those houses that people moved out of were either bought up by real estate investors and then used to make more luxury apartments which then pushed more people of lower income out of the city areas (hillcrest north/south park midway) and into places like chula vista, Santee, and Kearny Mesa. I'm not saying San Diego and Richmond are a 1:1 comparison. I'm stating my personal observations that this is what tended to happen. This is going to probably be a hot take but I've also lived in Berlin for a time and they leaned into rent control and rent freezes to help with the rising housing costs. While not perfect it did hit the pause button on the problem. (They froze rent for 3 or 5 years I think in 2018 or 2019) Either way while luxury apartments sound wonderful on paper to me they behave in the same way as adding more lanes to a highway to reduce traffic. They just create more traffic.
I would mostly agree. Housing is a complex problem and new luxury housing won't solve much of it. We need to find a way to get inflation, including housing costs, under control. We also need more affordable housing and support for voucher programs. I'm a landlord so I have some mixed feelings on the issue but I will say my insurance and taxes are pretty ridiculous and getting good reliable contractors to fix things is even more expensive.
I’d say what’s more likely is that it will cause an influx of higher income earners who are relocating from more expensive areas to move to Richmond. Of course that’s already happening… so it’s just more of the same.
Yeah unfortunately that's already happening. So we're already at a supply deficit within our market and then we have the additional external demand to deal with. At this point, any housing is good. But I would agree that we should incentivize affordable housing before luxury housing.
150 units is not a small development especially when you are partially offsetting the demand of new workers who will be working in the hospital. Richmond is also missing out on the direct and indirect tax revenue from the scrapped tower.
Extra supply will always help in general. The market will set the price they can rent for. The more supply, the more options folks will have and the more competitive rates will become.
Ah the old "if we don't build it, the demand disappears" theory
Not really what I said at all.
If they CHOSE not build it, the demand was never there in the first place, and the supply is not being artificially constrained. But go on, keep drawing those bullshit supply and demand curves.
Ie, the use of the land is subject to market forced and not whims of zoning official
Yes, what this is telling you is that developers/land holders are not building housings for reasons other than zoning. They COULD have built a mega apartment with restaurant/retail on the first floor. They did not. It suggests that the demand for housing and "walkable neighborhoods" is not what people think it is. If that's true, housing supply won't necessarily increase the way people want, and nothing can trickle down if you aren't getting the increased housing supply expected. What is happening here is the result of the policy that people demanded. The Leopards are eating their faces and incredibly, they still haven't figured it out. The whole YIMBY thing relies on their insistence that supply is artificially constricted. That every one would be building housing if only the restrictions are removed. People like yourself drawing ridiculous perfectly inelastic supply curve. It turns out, the market demand isn't quite what people thought, and is coming to bite them in the ass. Which is what happens when you idiotically ignore demand and focus only on supply.
>Yes, what this is telling you is that developers/land holders are not building housings for reasons other than zoning. everybody understands that. but rva doesn't control interest rates, or tariffs, or immigration, or other broad economic inpacts. but it does have direct control over permitting costs, delays, zoning, etc. > he whole YIMBY thing relies on their insistence that supply is artificially constricted. That every one would be building housing if only the restrictions are removed. There are [margins where that is the case](https://www.planetizen.com/files/inline-images/Fig2%5B1%5D.jpg) It doesn't mean *every* lot and *every* proposed project is viable. don't be weird about it >Which is what happens when you idiotically ignore demand and focus only on supply. the whole point of upzoning is to increasingly expose supply to market forces, as demand is. we don't want to add any additional regulatory costs to the already fixed costs firms face
You aren't wrong there, unfortunately.
How I wish I was.
Boo, I get interest rates and construction cost bear a lot of the blame on this one but that’s so disappointing. That was a really cool concept.
I genuinely have no issues with this
Does anyone know who is in the old ABC headquarters across the street?
Nothing - it's sold to VCU and will (hopefully) soon be demolished as part of it's future Athletic Village plan. https://www.12onyourside.com/2022/06/14/virginia-abc-sells-former-warehouse-vcu/
I loved the charm of the brass fixtures in that building and that there were plenty of bathrooms to poop in
There was no charm in that building trust me.
We must have not worked there at the same time then 😉
It looks like they are using it for something when I drive by
Film production work.
They were just using it for Pharrell's new musical film "Atlantis". I heard form someone on the production that there's a bunch of film folks who want to turn it into a soundstage. If VCU owns it, they wont be letting it go.
Dope! Where can I apply for a job? That was Tommie Chong’s solution to hunger - just give every one a job in the movies - they always need someone to stand there or do whatever 😆 For real I need a job tho
I think they’re filming a movie there, lots of old cars in the parking lot, tents set up every once in awhile, no parking on the street in front of the building
F*** Thalhimer