My b.
Tbh, I agree with your sentiment. Plus the bills have traded back in the first round literally one time since Beane took over. It's hardly "straight out of the bills playbook"
Yeah, teams don't really move up and down like this in the NHL. This isn't the NFL draft. The difference between the 11OA and the 14OA is like picking between a ham sandwich and a turkey sandwich. It's preference.
And agreed, this happens on draft day if your guy is already gone and you just want more ping pong balls. You don't do this the day before unless you have something in place.
I have to wholeheartedly disagree. A sandwich isn't a sandwich without condiments, i.e. a ton of mayo. And the perfect amount of mayo has been reached when you bite into said sandwich and the mayo is running down your arms.
Idk if I ever had it lol. I’m gonna be honest, I was looking at rye bread when I came up with my name.
That’s a very solid insight into how my brain works
Maybe. With Fortin getting bumped up the chain of command, it makes you wonder if they are more or less likely to use draft capital this year. It could be the Sabres want to add some missing elements and the Sharks were willing to pay a 2nd rounder to make sure they get one of the top 6 D.
Target could be Brandegg-Nygard, who should still be around at 14 and likes to hammer bodies and pucks. Then they can take two swings at RHD (Gill, Brunicke, Elick) or two way/defensive C's (Zether, O'Rielly, ... guy I'm blanking on) in round 2.
We'll find out in the next 24 hours, I guess... or probably by the time I'm done typing this if they're moving the picks. lol.
>(Zether, O'Rielly, ... guy I'm blanking on)
Eriksson or Miettinen probably.
But yeah 42, 43 is a great range for the players that have some weakness that the Sabres shouldn't mind, like offensive ability. Would be great to see them draft a defense first center for once. That a strong defensive defenseman would be a great outcome with these 2 picks.
That seems like a stupid trade from San Jose. It's three spots and gives us an early second to work with. Good move, but it likely takes them out of the range of just about every prospect people liked here.
I think the general consensus is there are 15 or 16 guys that have a 1st round grade in this draft. Maybe KA and Co. don't see a big difference between the guys ranked 10 and 15 on their board 🤷♂️
If this was last year, or even two years ago, I'd agree it was to just continue drafting and stocking the cupboards. This year? It screams more capital for a bigger trade.
No, I agree with that. Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom, Sennecke, Iginla, Catton and Helenius seems pretty unanimously be viewed as the top7 forwards. And Levshunov, Dickinson, Buium, Parekh, Silayev and Yakemchuk the unanimous top6 defensemen.
So if the Sabres aren't just doing this trade to flip the 14th then I would think they are not interested in the players among those 13 that would be there at 11. Like it's probably going to just be offensive defensemen and small forwards there, which I could understand them not being too interested in.
While they might really like some of the players that should be there at 14 like Brandsegg-Nygård, Eiserman, Greentree, or more defensively minded defensemen like Solberg or Jiricek.
Of course (which is why I think this trade shouldn't have happened before the draft floor). This is just taking the opinion of public scouts into account.
I think it's highly likely 1-3 of the "non‐top 13" are taken earlier. Just takes one team to rank them higher and I've seen plenty of mocks with MBN and Eiserman specifically going around 10ish.
This is an additional second they got from NJ. They now have picks 1, 11 and 33. They don't really need more seconds and moving up should get them a better choice of players.
Sharks fan here. It was a bit of an overpay for us but it always will be to move up this high in the draft. We recently acquired our third 2nd round pick in this draft so losing one doesn’t seem like a huge loss especially when we might be able to snag a top D in the draft at 11 that otherwise may not be available at 14.
It's definitely more capital on a return for a trade. The second I read this, which was about 45 seconds ago, my immediate thought was that there was a handshake deal ready, but the other team wanted a larger return, possibly more that Adams wanted more back and the other team needed a better sweetener than just 11OA.
Something's gonna happen. Soon.
I'm guessing Adams felt #11 was a little too rich for a trade he has in the works so he traded back to #14 so as not to overpay. Essentially the plan is to trade #11 for #42 and a player yet to be identified. That's my guess.
my thought exactly. In a theoretical trade of the pick I sincerely doubt the difference between the 11th and 14th OA picks means anything. A trade is absolutely coming shortly
exactly. What I meant is in a backroom trade, the difference between 11 and 14 is basically the same thing, but now we got a second to potentially push that trade through
Why would San Jose care about moving up 3 spots in a not so deep draft and give up a second round pick? I'd be pissed if I were a Sharks fan if that was the case.
>I’d be pissed if I were a Sharks fan
I’m an SJ fan and I’m stoked about this move. If you go to the Sharks sub, we’re all excited about this lol. We already had THREE 2nd round picks in this draft. Losing one of those to move up to 11 is a great move imo. Our D prospect pool is weak and this gives us a chance at whichever top D falls to us at 11OA
> It's three spots
Eiserman's projected to go around 12 or 13 - so this could be the difference between getting the best goal-scorer in the draft and someone who isn't even in the top-5.
It's a great trade for San Jose. They have a lot of quantity in their prospect pool so giving up the second is not a big deal. And one of the "big 6" defensemen that have good upside, which they desperately need, is bound to be there, or else a really good forward will be.
Ok well now we have 42 and 43. Maybe he’s getting ready to trade those for a player and still be able to pick in the first round. At least my gut reaction
My hope is that Adams has a trade in the works for a player but thought #11 was a bit too rich so traded back for #14 so he'll still be able to make the trade but also got himself an additional 2nd round pick in the process.
That's debatable, especially on a team like Buffalo that already has a very deep prospect pool.
[https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/06/06/nhl-draft-the-cost-of-moving-up-in-the-nhl-draft/](https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/06/06/nhl-draft-the-cost-of-moving-up-in-the-nhl-draft/)
On this chart he difference between 11 and 14 is the same as the difference between 33 and 50. Draft value falls for every pick in the first round, starts to flatten out in the second and then pretty much flattens outs starting in the third round.
This move makes a lot of sense if you put stock into the Sabres being willing to trade the 1st for a roster player. The 1st round pick alone probably isn’t getting anyone worthwhile and likely will be packaged with a prospect or young player, so it being 3 picks lower isn’t a huge deal. Having 2 mid second rounders makes it easier to trade the 1st and still pick some decent prospects or have more ammo for a bottom 6 player who’s not worth a 1st anyway.
Wonder if they got a trade lined up and though the 11th was a bit of an overpayment. Otherwise I don't get why they'd do this before the draft, unless they don't like the likely top picks in the draft and would rather draft someone that should be available at 14 like Brandsegg-Nygård perhaps.
I think this is generally in the category of "good business" but given the situation the sabres are in and the need for immediate results of any kind, this doesn't move the needle for me unless it's a prelude to a second move.
Spending a second to move up three spots before you know what players are there is questionable.
Trading back three spots before you know what players are available and possibly falling in the draft is questionable.
The only plausible thing is that they wanted another draft pick to offset an upcoming trade
11 and 14 have a minimal difference in value. It's a good trade for the Sabres, kind of a no brainer.
Odd San Jose would do it a day early unless they're the ones with another trade in the works
I wonder how many moves we’ll actually see on draft night.
This particular draft class is the first in a long time where I’ve seen multiple GMs come right out and say they’ll trade their 1st round pick if someone else wants it.
This makes the most sense as Adams trying to trade the first. Trading the 11th vs 14th is not going to make or break a deal compared to being able to add a high second rounder as a sweetener.
Like we definitely got good value, but I was hoping we'd get one of the top 6 dmen in the draft and now we probably won't. Guess it will probably be another skilled forward now.
My guess is that there was player(s) San Jose wanted that they projected to go around pick 11. Sabres figured it out and made the pick swap for a free 2nd rounder.
What a bizarre trade to make before you’re on the board and know who you’re passing on. Maybe they wanted an extra 2nd (or lower 1st) to use in another trade?
And Beane would never cut Diggs without having a deal in place to replace him. So yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it.
Honestly, he’s probably just better off picking at 11, considering how well they’ve scouted the draft over last few years. It’s probably the only thing the Sabres do well.
It’s hard to not take this as a sign another trade is more likely now than it was before. Even if they don’t have one on the table it’s still a real nice move from a value standpoint.
Historically something like 25% of second round picks play at least 200 NHL games, so it’s a decent chance to get an NHL caliber player. And the historic difference between 11 and 14 isn’t very large so it’s a very low risk move. I’m actually not sure why the sharks did this.
this is it, the missing piece. i've been saying all off-season, we're close, team is close, we just need to add the 42nd overall pick in this year's draft to get us over the hump. can't believe Adams actually pulled it off
Hate it!, How many 42 over all picks even make it to the NHL. Should have stayed at 11. We don't need more prospects, we need players who can play now and maybe make the playoffs.
Yes figure out the now, we are set with prospects. If it impacts now, great, otherwise a waste.
Break the drought KA and you have a job as long as you want it.
I'm not really a fan of Adams, but this is anything but an amateur move. It's quite smart, actually, and pretty straightforward to many in this thread why this was done.
People who understand this sport more than you do have already said why this is a smart move. Pay attention to the comments in this thread and you may learn a thing or two.
Right out of the Bills’ playbook!!
Now do it again!
MORE!!! #MORE!!!
Calm down Kylo, it's a long weekend
Big Baller....Kevyn
Not quite, as opposed to the bills, gmka made the right move with the coach that hasn’t reached expectations. Probably late but made the move anyway.
wow, found the WGR caller
Do you mean the time they traded Mahomes for White? Or a different time?
They traded back 3 or 4 spots in this year's draft, which is what I think this guy is referring to.
I know what they're referring to. I'm noting that it can backfire.
My b. Tbh, I agree with your sentiment. Plus the bills have traded back in the first round literally one time since Beane took over. It's hardly "straight out of the bills playbook"
Looks like more draft capital to trade for a player
This is definitely a "We have a trade deal in place. They want more of a return, so we're gonna get that return" kind of trade.
I get that sense too. This would be a draft day trade if it was purely pick related.
Yeah, teams don't really move up and down like this in the NHL. This isn't the NFL draft. The difference between the 11OA and the 14OA is like picking between a ham sandwich and a turkey sandwich. It's preference. And agreed, this happens on draft day if your guy is already gone and you just want more ping pong balls. You don't do this the day before unless you have something in place.
I prefer turkey
What cheese does it come with? If it’s cheddar I’m going ham. If it’s something more interesting like Brie, it’s Turkey all day.
I’m gonna get verbally abused for this, but if the bread is good, all you need is turkey and said bread. Nothing else on it
I have to wholeheartedly disagree. A sandwich isn't a sandwich without condiments, i.e. a ton of mayo. And the perfect amount of mayo has been reached when you bite into said sandwich and the mayo is running down your arms.
That better be a joke. Mayo is nasty
Nope! Just meat on bread sounds dry as hell. Need that sauce.
Agree if the Turkey is good. Like thanksgiving leftovers. If the Turkey is just deli cut, then big disagree
Dry as fuck, fuck this. Gotta have a little mustard, gravy, butter, something you savage
Also, do u like pumpernickel?
Guys this is a Wendy’s
In that case I’ll have a baconator combo with an additional side of nuggets please
Idk if I ever had it lol. I’m gonna be honest, I was looking at rye bread when I came up with my name. That’s a very solid insight into how my brain works
With some provolone, pesto and Sriracha mayo
Where does roast beef fall? that’s my preference with some cheese, coleslaw and Russian dressing and grilled on some sourdough
That's a top 10 pick.
I could go for some turkey rn
I would move up for turkey.
I want to believe this but idk
I could be wrong! I guess we'll see within the next 24 hours or so.
Two 2nd got us Hecht. Of course it also got us Fasching
Maybe. With Fortin getting bumped up the chain of command, it makes you wonder if they are more or less likely to use draft capital this year. It could be the Sabres want to add some missing elements and the Sharks were willing to pay a 2nd rounder to make sure they get one of the top 6 D. Target could be Brandegg-Nygard, who should still be around at 14 and likes to hammer bodies and pucks. Then they can take two swings at RHD (Gill, Brunicke, Elick) or two way/defensive C's (Zether, O'Rielly, ... guy I'm blanking on) in round 2. We'll find out in the next 24 hours, I guess... or probably by the time I'm done typing this if they're moving the picks. lol.
>(Zether, O'Rielly, ... guy I'm blanking on) Eriksson or Miettinen probably. But yeah 42, 43 is a great range for the players that have some weakness that the Sabres shouldn't mind, like offensive ability. Would be great to see them draft a defense first center for once. That a strong defensive defenseman would be a great outcome with these 2 picks.
I like this. Getting a 2nd for moving down 3 spots is really good. Gives us more flexibility to make some trades. Value wise this is a win.
That seems like a stupid trade from San Jose. It's three spots and gives us an early second to work with. Good move, but it likely takes them out of the range of just about every prospect people liked here.
I think the general consensus is there are 15 or 16 guys that have a 1st round grade in this draft. Maybe KA and Co. don't see a big difference between the guys ranked 10 and 15 on their board 🤷♂️
If this was last year, or even two years ago, I'd agree it was to just continue drafting and stocking the cupboards. This year? It screams more capital for a bigger trade.
I’ve been insistent that there is a fairly clear top 13. I guess nevermind that lol
No, I agree with that. Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom, Sennecke, Iginla, Catton and Helenius seems pretty unanimously be viewed as the top7 forwards. And Levshunov, Dickinson, Buium, Parekh, Silayev and Yakemchuk the unanimous top6 defensemen. So if the Sabres aren't just doing this trade to flip the 14th then I would think they are not interested in the players among those 13 that would be there at 11. Like it's probably going to just be offensive defensemen and small forwards there, which I could understand them not being too interested in. While they might really like some of the players that should be there at 14 like Brandsegg-Nygård, Eiserman, Greentree, or more defensively minded defensemen like Solberg or Jiricek.
The odds of all 13 of those players being the top 13 picks are pretty slim. There are always one or two "surprises."
Of course (which is why I think this trade shouldn't have happened before the draft floor). This is just taking the opinion of public scouts into account.
I think it's highly likely 1-3 of the "non‐top 13" are taken earlier. Just takes one team to rank them higher and I've seen plenty of mocks with MBN and Eiserman specifically going around 10ish.
Yes.
Must have somebody they really want. Don't think the Sharks are sad about having 1st and 11th lol
This is an additional second they got from NJ. They now have picks 1, 11 and 33. They don't really need more seconds and moving up should get them a better choice of players.
Grier basically secured his choice of Eiserman, Yakemchuk or Catton who all might have been gone by 14. Plus they still have picks 33 and 53
Sharks fan here. It was a bit of an overpay for us but it always will be to move up this high in the draft. We recently acquired our third 2nd round pick in this draft so losing one doesn’t seem like a huge loss especially when we might be able to snag a top D in the draft at 11 that otherwise may not be available at 14.
It's definitely more capital on a return for a trade. The second I read this, which was about 45 seconds ago, my immediate thought was that there was a handshake deal ready, but the other team wanted a larger return, possibly more that Adams wanted more back and the other team needed a better sweetener than just 11OA. Something's gonna happen. Soon.
I'm guessing Adams felt #11 was a little too rich for a trade he has in the works so he traded back to #14 so as not to overpay. Essentially the plan is to trade #11 for #42 and a player yet to be identified. That's my guess.
my thought exactly. In a theoretical trade of the pick I sincerely doubt the difference between the 11th and 14th OA picks means anything. A trade is absolutely coming shortly
11OA and 14OA are basically the same pick. We did this for the return of the 2nd round pick.
exactly. What I meant is in a backroom trade, the difference between 11 and 14 is basically the same thing, but now we got a second to potentially push that trade through
My guess would be San Jose called and offered this trade and Adams couldn't say no.
Why would San Jose care about moving up 3 spots in a not so deep draft and give up a second round pick? I'd be pissed if I were a Sharks fan if that was the case.
>I’d be pissed if I were a Sharks fan I’m an SJ fan and I’m stoked about this move. If you go to the Sharks sub, we’re all excited about this lol. We already had THREE 2nd round picks in this draft. Losing one of those to move up to 11 is a great move imo. Our D prospect pool is weak and this gives us a chance at whichever top D falls to us at 11OA
Wait are you both a Sabres and Sharks fan or
Sharks fan. I was curious about the Sabres fan reaction to this trade.
I came for the same reason. Especially since the sharks had 1, 14, 33, 42, and 53 I'm totally fine with this deal to hopefully get one of the top 6 D.
Why would Adams trade back to pick up an additional 2nd in a not so deep draft?
https://www.reddit.com/r/sabres/comments/1dq09ll/lysowski_kevyn_adams_said_the_trade_with_san_jose/
Nailed it. Smart trade, makes sense, probability means the Sabres won’t get the handful of prospects I was the most juiced about.
> It's three spots Eiserman's projected to go around 12 or 13 - so this could be the difference between getting the best goal-scorer in the draft and someone who isn't even in the top-5.
It's a great trade for San Jose. They have a lot of quantity in their prospect pool so giving up the second is not a big deal. And one of the "big 6" defensemen that have good upside, which they desperately need, is bound to be there, or else a really good forward will be.
More draft capital for more trades. Good trade.
Monkeys paw for those that said trade the first round pick
Haha my thought exactly
Ok well now we have 42 and 43. Maybe he’s getting ready to trade those for a player and still be able to pick in the first round. At least my gut reaction
My hope is that Adams has a trade in the works for a player but thought #11 was a bit too rich so traded back for #14 so he'll still be able to make the trade but also got himself an additional 2nd round pick in the process.
I think now he can add an extra pick to a deal that's in the works to outbid Another team for same player and it's a free pick
The difference between 11 and 14 is literally next to nothing.
I'm guessing it's not nothing, but a 2nd round pick
It's nothing. Mike grier is drunk
That's debatable, especially on a team like Buffalo that already has a very deep prospect pool. [https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/06/06/nhl-draft-the-cost-of-moving-up-in-the-nhl-draft/](https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/06/06/nhl-draft-the-cost-of-moving-up-in-the-nhl-draft/) On this chart he difference between 11 and 14 is the same as the difference between 33 and 50. Draft value falls for every pick in the first round, starts to flatten out in the second and then pretty much flattens outs starting in the third round.
I hope the Sabres scouted someone really good that everyone missed then
Benson 2.0
Great lil value move here
Not a bad trade at all value wise, but weird imo. Regardless of value the last thing we need is more picks.
Unless you trade it
The Sabres want bottom 6 guys, those cost 2nds and 3rds. This trade is perfect for that.
Increased draft capital for trade value.
This move makes a lot of sense if you put stock into the Sabres being willing to trade the 1st for a roster player. The 1st round pick alone probably isn’t getting anyone worthwhile and likely will be packaged with a prospect or young player, so it being 3 picks lower isn’t a huge deal. Having 2 mid second rounders makes it easier to trade the 1st and still pick some decent prospects or have more ammo for a bottom 6 player who’s not worth a 1st anyway.
Wonder if they got a trade lined up and though the 11th was a bit of an overpayment. Otherwise I don't get why they'd do this before the draft, unless they don't like the likely top picks in the draft and would rather draft someone that should be available at 14 like Brandsegg-Nygård perhaps.
Based on the twitter reaction you'd think we traded the #1 overall pick for future considerations lmao, dunno wtf they're so mad about
I think this is generally in the category of "good business" but given the situation the sabres are in and the need for immediate results of any kind, this doesn't move the needle for me unless it's a prelude to a second move.
I'm betting he doesn't keep 1 or 2 of these draft picks.They're gonna be in a deal
I really hope so
Spending a second to move up three spots before you know what players are there is questionable. Trading back three spots before you know what players are available and possibly falling in the draft is questionable. The only plausible thing is that they wanted another draft pick to offset an upcoming trade
11 and 14 have a minimal difference in value. It's a good trade for the Sabres, kind of a no brainer. Odd San Jose would do it a day early unless they're the ones with another trade in the works
No, there’s at least one other plausible explanation.
Well, what is it? I tend to agree with the poster above you in the absence of the other plausible explanation.
I wonder how many moves we’ll actually see on draft night. This particular draft class is the first in a long time where I’ve seen multiple GMs come right out and say they’ll trade their 1st round pick if someone else wants it.
I will take basically a free early 2nd, nice!
This makes the most sense as Adams trying to trade the first. Trading the 11th vs 14th is not going to make or break a deal compared to being able to add a high second rounder as a sweetener.
Would anyone be sad if we didn’t make any of those first three selections?
Nope
🫣
Like we definitely got good value, but I was hoping we'd get one of the top 6 dmen in the draft and now we probably won't. Guess it will probably be another skilled forward now.
My guess is that there was player(s) San Jose wanted that they projected to go around pick 11. Sabres figured it out and made the pick swap for a free 2nd rounder.
Maybe that 2nd plus Skinner plus 50% retain to a team for nothing?
Brilliant, and keep moving!
Didn't we swap spots with San Jose and move up to get Peterka? We owe them one I guess.
Everybody want them to trade that pick. So now everyone should be happy. /s I'm excited to see what this actually leads to.
Good trade. It much difference between talent at 14 vs 11. The 2nd round usually has some good pieces.
MOAR
They will blow it like every year.
Future is brighter?
What a bizarre trade to make before you’re on the board and know who you’re passing on. Maybe they wanted an extra 2nd (or lower 1st) to use in another trade?
I think he had number 11 in play and maybe it's adding this other pick to entice some deal.
And Beane would never cut Diggs without having a deal in place to replace him. So yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it. Honestly, he’s probably just better off picking at 11, considering how well they’ve scouted the draft over last few years. It’s probably the only thing the Sabres do well.
Why?
Why? We got a high second round pick to drop 3 spots. Objectively great trade for Adams. Probably going to use some of it in a trade.
I really hope you're right.
It’s hard to not take this as a sign another trade is more likely now than it was before. Even if they don’t have one on the table it’s still a real nice move from a value standpoint.
Let him cook
Not necas not necas...for FUCKS sake KA NOT NECAS
He better get a player. A good one. Not named Necas or whatever
This is what happens when you trade just to say you made a trade.
Lmao you posted in r/hockey that the Sabres subreddit is mad about this trade. When in reality it was just you. What a poor soul you are.
I mean, we all want a bigger move, but this is objectively a win for Buffalo. Picking up a high second rounder to move down 3 spots is good business.
Why's the high second round pick so valuable?
Historically something like 25% of second round picks play at least 200 NHL games, so it’s a decent chance to get an NHL caliber player. And the historic difference between 11 and 14 isn’t very large so it’s a very low risk move. I’m actually not sure why the sharks did this.
More ammo for a trade, or allows us to move our first rounder and still add to our project pool with 2 second round guys instead of just one.
It's not.
If you think a high 2nd round pick isn't a sweetener for a bidding war on a player in a trade, you don't know the first thing about hockey.
Better not be trading a first and 2 seconds for Skinner 2.0 aka Necas
They're picking the racist kid and figuring he'll still be there at 14
this is it, the missing piece. i've been saying all off-season, we're close, team is close, we just need to add the 42nd overall pick in this year's draft to get us over the hump. can't believe Adams actually pulled it off
This does nothing
Hate it!, How many 42 over all picks even make it to the NHL. Should have stayed at 11. We don't need more prospects, we need players who can play now and maybe make the playoffs.
Yes figure out the now, we are set with prospects. If it impacts now, great, otherwise a waste. Break the drought KA and you have a job as long as you want it.
Amateur hour
I'm not really a fan of Adams, but this is anything but an amateur move. It's quite smart, actually, and pretty straightforward to many in this thread why this was done.
why?
Kevyn has no plan
People who understand this sport more than you do have already said why this is a smart move. Pay attention to the comments in this thread and you may learn a thing or two.
Apologize to me
Right, they've done a great job agreeing with every move for the last 13 years. It's worked out very well. Thank you for your condescending comment.