It's a distinction without much importance; obviously they're both plenty evil. But, gun to my head, I'd say the jihadists edge them out because they want to obliterate anyone who doesn't subscribe to their worldview. The cartels will destroy anything that gets in the way of their goals but most of them probably don't care what happens outside of that.
I'm not sure I can choose. Technically, the jihadist are just destroying anything that gets in the way of their goals, as well. It's just that their goal is a worldwide caliphate, so they naturally have more people in the way of their goals.
Part of me tells me I could just convert to Islam, or convert to Christianity and live as a dhimmi and be spared, but with the cartel I'm not sure they have a forgiveness condition.
I think I can find the opposite asymmetry. In my view the cartels are worse because they know they're doing evil things, they just think it's a necessary evil (or morality doesn't matter as much as money).
Meanwhile the jihadists think their actions, however gruesome, are justified by their God. Even if they find themselves afraid or squeamish about killing innocent victims, they just remind themselves with a tone of humility that "I'm just a man, I can't dispute what God wants even if it seems horrible to me".
So, while the cartels do evil because it's evil, and they need to intimidate and control people to protect their business interests, the jihadists are actually trying to do good but are tragically mistaken about what's actually true about the nature of morality.
It's the difference between a kid who draws on the walls to damage them and upset his parents vs a kid who thinks drawing on the walls will act as decoration and make everyone happy about the beautiful house.
> the jihadists are actually trying to do good but are tragically mistaken
You can just as well argue this makes them worse, because not only are they evil but they are completely delusional about it which likely means nothing can make them see their delusion and they'll continue indefinitely. By contrast, if we eliminated poverty in places like Mexico you'd automatically see a massive reduction in cartel activity forever.
I can see the difference in values here. But here's my thought process:
Imagine equal consequences. 10 innocent people are murdered gruesomely by knife blade. The man wielding the knife finds the task emotionally disgusting, but he grits his teeth and does it anyway because he "has to". He's probably giving himself some kind of PTSD while he does this.
In the case of the jihadi, he tells himself "God wants this, my mother and father will be proud of this, my entire community would agree with my actions, I must be strong and do this".
In the case of the cartel member, he tells himself "my boss wants this, my mother and father would be ashamed of me, my community will fear me and be disgusted, only my cartel brothers will agree with my actions because they understand the need to follow orders and maintain fear through violence. Without violence we lose our grip on people and our economic model collapses."
I believe the cartel member is a hypocrite, he knows he's doing evil - that's worse than the jihadi who's making an misguided but good-faith attempt to do the right thing, given that the outcome/consequences are identical.
Intentions matter imho
I’ve seen too many videos of cartel members doing things like removing people’s faces, hearts, and other abominations while people are still alive to consider jihadism. Jihadis at least believe they are justified by something greater - these guys are purely motivated by money and they do unspeakable things to people. So unspeakable. Apparently they drug people with amphetamines to make sure they have a heightened sense of pain during torture. They commit real life horror movie violence and it’s not discussed at all on a global level that on some level you would expect.
They are so destructive that I think our silence as an entire country to even discuss any real aid for mexico is out of a reasonable fear by our politicians. Not even they would be safe.
This is a topic I’ve thought a lot about. They just killed another female mayor days after she won an election. I went to google her and already found a new one from two days ago.
“A mayor has been found murdered in southern Mexico, local authorities announced Saturday, less than a week after another politician was assassinated in the same region plagued by cartel violence.”
30 politicians have been murdered this year alone.
If any country has actually been in need of the type of military assistance we have “volunteered”, this is the most justified and we even share a border with them. It’s very strange that it’s not so much more of a huge discussion in the media and politics that we have the worst people on earth doing the worst kinds of violence right on our border that make a tortured mockery of democracy, and the only thing we are willing to talk about is immigration because of it. And I think it’s because of pure and unfortunately very rational fear. Think about two of the major topics in our landscape - fentanyl overdoses, and immigration. Who’s responsible for that? Where is the outrage towards the ones lobbying their entire federal and local governments with threats of torture to get their profitable poison into the US that murder our children?
Jihadists are worse, morally speaking.
Ideology makes a real difference, and ideology motivates people to go the extra mile in being heinous and evil.
There is a reason why the Eastern front was so much more horrific than the Western front in WW2, for example. Hitler viewed the Eastern front as an ideological and racial struggle, and look how that went. In the Western front it was just "business as usual" in terms of geopolitical conquest. In the Eastern front it was an ideological struggle to the death.
Agreed. Neither Jihadists nor Cartel think they are evil. For cartels, it is just business. And jihadists think it is good.
Hamas and Palestinians breeched the wall into Israel and were GLEEFULLY going to rape, torture and murder. Terrible evil in the name of a violent god. The goal of rape is to keep their enemies out of heaven.
Cartels are violent, but not necessarily for hate. It's simple greed.
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
Steven Weinberg
What a dumbass quote, since there are also bad people who behave well because of religion. There are also good people who do evil regardless of religion
It's legit baffling you're getting downvoted for this. There's always going to be humans who commit evil acts regardless of religion.
Greed and wanting higher social status and power are ingrained in us to the extent that some of us are bound to commit any morally reprehensible act to achieve them.
Everyday I stray further from this sub and their dogmatic anti-theist tendencies.
I’m convinced everyone here is an angsty teenager rebelling against religion
I remember reading about a kid in Afghanistan who had cut his *own* hand off because he stole. There is an evil and absurdity baked into Islam that just completely defies any explanation; "because god said so" really is the icing on the cake.
Jihadists are more dangerous but the cartels are morally more depraved.
Jihadists generally speaking are trying to live by a code, trying to do what's right. Cartels are just nihilistically out to enrich themselves and satisfy a primal lust for power.
Cartels because they’re for the most part nihilists; they don’t care about wealth or fame because they know at any moment someone can run up to them and saw their head off. Jihadist have a twisted moral reasoning but they don’t see themselves as doing evil for the sake of evil.
Don’t cartels usually leave people alone who don’t get involved?
I think it would be better to live in a cartel run city than an isis run city, but I can’t really back that up.
Both evil but one can be much more easily solved. With the right incentives (or lack thereof) the cartel problem could go away.
The jihad problem is much more persistent.
Organized criminals probably don't see themsevles as bad people. Probably think they are just running a business that is supplying a demand for something people want. They might argue that they are no more immoral than Boeing and Lockheed Martin that provide weapons that kill innocent civilians around the world.
The nice thing about those who are purely self-interested is that the levers society can pull to change their behavior are more obvious. The social ills that enable cartels are fairly obvious, as are the solutions. The same can't be said of religious zealotry. It's still a solvable problem, but I think it's a more difficult one. The question of who's technically worse morally isn't terribly interesting or important.
There’s no free will so you can measure by impact. Jihadists are at the highest level of govt in the Middle East so ideology manifests as state wide oppression ie Afghanistan, Iran. The cartels do a lot of killing as well, but the state apparatus is not so enthralled to cartel as it is with Jihadists.
But if you wanna take it at a free will level, then you’d have to go with cartels because the Jihadi are actually just too principaled by Islam, whereas the cartels are entirely unprincipled by the common environmental standards.
This geopolitical version of "who would win if a bear and tiger fight" lol.
Jihadists see their actions as the moral thing to do but cartels are violent literally for the sake of immorality of it, showcasing how evil they are and not to be messed with. So I guess cartels are worse.
I feel like people here have a very idealized version of djihadists. They are not the holy brainwashed fighters you make them out to be. They basically operate as mafias in the sahel and near orient, selling drugs, human trafficking. The religious persecution is just a way for them to justify victimizing some people and recruit new members
There’s a lot of overlap between these two groups believe it or not. Hamas and Hezbollah themselves raise lots of money selling drugs in Brazil and Paraguay. ISIS also took part in drug and human trafficking.
If you mean drug cartels, for the most part they create and distribute a product people want. They generate a lot of money. Obviously - they also kill people.
Terrorists don’t do a lot of value creation.
Not to in anyway forgive cartels for their violence but if it wasn't for drug war laws around the world they would just be Pfizer, Anheuser-Busch, or Philip Morris.
Bin Laden was one of the wealthiest people on earth and instead lived in a cave driven to murder people.
Lots of religious folks in the cartels as well (according to the movies), whom love their families. Also, those guys are working for their dollars and we could easily cut their legs out via drug legalization so the US is partly to blame for forcing them into their criminal ways vs welcoming them in to a free market economy.
I like the hard work they are all about and they aren’t randomly blowing up people in groups, they are targeting specific individuals.
The jihadist are both religious AND political and politics is very very stupid. In fact it has achieved a status much more stupid than religion, that takes real work and dedication. So they are by far worse.
i think you're delusional if you think that drug legalization would just make the cartels evaporate into nothingness. sure all of the revenue guys growing and processing the drugs would disappear, but the soldiers whose job are just perpetrating violence would not just become truck drivers, they'd just switch to extortion, stickups, kidnapping and human trafficking.
The question wasn’t is selling drugs moral. The question which of the two cartel employee or Jihadist are worse morally speaking.
Murdering people with no regard to whom is in the way, in the name of your religion, is far far worse than being in the drug trades. The people who perish from drug use are not forced to use drugs, they are making it as their own personal choice.
Aware that legal businesses like the alcohol industry and tobacco are family businesses and have been killing people for decades, but this is just bullshit 😅🤣.
One hit of Meth or Heroin and you are addicted - and soon after permanent brain changes. And nowadays it is tainted with fentanyl.
The DEA is seizing shipments of God knows what that have enough lethal doses to kill an entire State. These drug dealers don't give a fuck about you and are happy spreading their death powder indescriminantly to your children.
The El Chapo's are a family business and may be Religious - and it's just good ol Capitalism - so that gives them a reprieve and makes their actions Romantic? No it does not. Fuck em. 🖕
I don't think the Cartels turn out a lot of Magic Mushrooms. In either case LSD and Psilocybin is not Meth and Fentanyl. I think most Sam Harris subscribers are smart enough to know that.
MDMA is questionable as to its toxicity, and has potential to be poisoned by other things.
Jihadists are obviously much worse
The cartel doesn’t believe they’re moral. It’s just business.
The jihadists believe they’re moral and therefore are way more dangerous
Morally speaking everyone is blameless. This is a direct and logically airtight consequence of the fact that free will doesn't exist.
Except if you disagree, then you're ontologically evil.
The jihadi’s. They actually believe God wills them to act in the way they do. They are both terrible but one is doing it in pursuit of wealth and power the other by divine guidance.
The ideology of the jihadist is more evil while the people involved are less evil.
The ideology of the cartel is less evil while the people involved are more evil.
It’s like a layered cake with more evil going upwards on the y axis… the top is the jihadist ideology, next comes cartel members, then cartel ideology, and finally jihadists themselves.
If you discover the truth and maintain jihad and propagate it while enlightened, you’re in outer space evil.
What is what this karma farming crap ? What’s worse ? Go post this somewhere relevant. Once again this sub is being brigaded by completely off topic nonsense.
Trump, in a manner of speaking, is worse than any of them.
A liar has a goal and reason for a deception to make sense.
Trump is a bullshiter...worse than a liar because he is contracting himself constantly, sometimes in the same sentence. Nothing he says matters as it's all fantasy in his head spilling out of his mouth. It's just utter chaos.
The Iraq / Afghan war. Decades long, millions of civilian deaths, maximum suffering, trillions spent of tax payer money, regional instability, further radicalizing of crazy extremist, etc
The profit seeking entities are responsible for some of the motive here. So when you ask what’s morally worse, I have a hard time not throwing this event into the hat.
It's a distinction without much importance; obviously they're both plenty evil. But, gun to my head, I'd say the jihadists edge them out because they want to obliterate anyone who doesn't subscribe to their worldview. The cartels will destroy anything that gets in the way of their goals but most of them probably don't care what happens outside of that.
I'm not sure I can choose. Technically, the jihadist are just destroying anything that gets in the way of their goals, as well. It's just that their goal is a worldwide caliphate, so they naturally have more people in the way of their goals. Part of me tells me I could just convert to Islam, or convert to Christianity and live as a dhimmi and be spared, but with the cartel I'm not sure they have a forgiveness condition.
I think I can find the opposite asymmetry. In my view the cartels are worse because they know they're doing evil things, they just think it's a necessary evil (or morality doesn't matter as much as money). Meanwhile the jihadists think their actions, however gruesome, are justified by their God. Even if they find themselves afraid or squeamish about killing innocent victims, they just remind themselves with a tone of humility that "I'm just a man, I can't dispute what God wants even if it seems horrible to me". So, while the cartels do evil because it's evil, and they need to intimidate and control people to protect their business interests, the jihadists are actually trying to do good but are tragically mistaken about what's actually true about the nature of morality. It's the difference between a kid who draws on the walls to damage them and upset his parents vs a kid who thinks drawing on the walls will act as decoration and make everyone happy about the beautiful house.
> the jihadists are actually trying to do good but are tragically mistaken You can just as well argue this makes them worse, because not only are they evil but they are completely delusional about it which likely means nothing can make them see their delusion and they'll continue indefinitely. By contrast, if we eliminated poverty in places like Mexico you'd automatically see a massive reduction in cartel activity forever.
I can see the difference in values here. But here's my thought process: Imagine equal consequences. 10 innocent people are murdered gruesomely by knife blade. The man wielding the knife finds the task emotionally disgusting, but he grits his teeth and does it anyway because he "has to". He's probably giving himself some kind of PTSD while he does this. In the case of the jihadi, he tells himself "God wants this, my mother and father will be proud of this, my entire community would agree with my actions, I must be strong and do this". In the case of the cartel member, he tells himself "my boss wants this, my mother and father would be ashamed of me, my community will fear me and be disgusted, only my cartel brothers will agree with my actions because they understand the need to follow orders and maintain fear through violence. Without violence we lose our grip on people and our economic model collapses." I believe the cartel member is a hypocrite, he knows he's doing evil - that's worse than the jihadi who's making an misguided but good-faith attempt to do the right thing, given that the outcome/consequences are identical. Intentions matter imho
“Are we gonna split hairs here?”
Calmer than you dude
I’ve seen too many videos of cartel members doing things like removing people’s faces, hearts, and other abominations while people are still alive to consider jihadism. Jihadis at least believe they are justified by something greater - these guys are purely motivated by money and they do unspeakable things to people. So unspeakable. Apparently they drug people with amphetamines to make sure they have a heightened sense of pain during torture. They commit real life horror movie violence and it’s not discussed at all on a global level that on some level you would expect. They are so destructive that I think our silence as an entire country to even discuss any real aid for mexico is out of a reasonable fear by our politicians. Not even they would be safe. This is a topic I’ve thought a lot about. They just killed another female mayor days after she won an election. I went to google her and already found a new one from two days ago. “A mayor has been found murdered in southern Mexico, local authorities announced Saturday, less than a week after another politician was assassinated in the same region plagued by cartel violence.” 30 politicians have been murdered this year alone. If any country has actually been in need of the type of military assistance we have “volunteered”, this is the most justified and we even share a border with them. It’s very strange that it’s not so much more of a huge discussion in the media and politics that we have the worst people on earth doing the worst kinds of violence right on our border that make a tortured mockery of democracy, and the only thing we are willing to talk about is immigration because of it. And I think it’s because of pure and unfortunately very rational fear. Think about two of the major topics in our landscape - fentanyl overdoses, and immigration. Who’s responsible for that? Where is the outrage towards the ones lobbying their entire federal and local governments with threats of torture to get their profitable poison into the US that murder our children?
Jihadists are worse, morally speaking. Ideology makes a real difference, and ideology motivates people to go the extra mile in being heinous and evil. There is a reason why the Eastern front was so much more horrific than the Western front in WW2, for example. Hitler viewed the Eastern front as an ideological and racial struggle, and look how that went. In the Western front it was just "business as usual" in terms of geopolitical conquest. In the Eastern front it was an ideological struggle to the death.
Agreed. Neither Jihadists nor Cartel think they are evil. For cartels, it is just business. And jihadists think it is good. Hamas and Palestinians breeched the wall into Israel and were GLEEFULLY going to rape, torture and murder. Terrible evil in the name of a violent god. The goal of rape is to keep their enemies out of heaven. Cartels are violent, but not necessarily for hate. It's simple greed.
>The goal of rape is to keep their enemies out of heaven. I don't think they believe an infidel can go to heaven.
Especially if they are raped.
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg
Tbf, (drug) money has also convinced good people to do pretty terrible things, especially if they're in desperate circumstances.
What a dumbass quote, since there are also bad people who behave well because of religion. There are also good people who do evil regardless of religion
lol. My man has never heard of money, sex, power, prestige. What a completely asinine and delusional comment that’s pseudo profound.
It's legit baffling you're getting downvoted for this. There's always going to be humans who commit evil acts regardless of religion. Greed and wanting higher social status and power are ingrained in us to the extent that some of us are bound to commit any morally reprehensible act to achieve them.
Everyday I stray further from this sub and their dogmatic anti-theist tendencies. I’m convinced everyone here is an angsty teenager rebelling against religion
Cartels. They know what they are doing is wrong. Your typical jihadist is just doing as god told him, and who are we to question god?
This logic would lead me to believe that jihad is more evil because we “can’t question it”.
I remember reading about a kid in Afghanistan who had cut his *own* hand off because he stole. There is an evil and absurdity baked into Islam that just completely defies any explanation; "because god said so" really is the icing on the cake.
What about when King Leopold did that to slaves in the Congo without any religion? Was that better?
Cartels don’t necessarily believe what they’re doing is wrong, however. They feel justified
[удалено]
I’m not saying they’re as fanatically self righteous as Islamic extremists, but I do think many see themselves as Robin Hood type figures.
The Nazis thought that they were doing a good thing two. Obeying a corrupt ideology does not absolve accountability
Jihadists are more dangerous but the cartels are morally more depraved. Jihadists generally speaking are trying to live by a code, trying to do what's right. Cartels are just nihilistically out to enrich themselves and satisfy a primal lust for power.
Isn't it depraved to call evil good?
Cartels because they’re for the most part nihilists; they don’t care about wealth or fame because they know at any moment someone can run up to them and saw their head off. Jihadist have a twisted moral reasoning but they don’t see themselves as doing evil for the sake of evil.
Jihadists kill you for what they believe in, cartels kill you for money or ego
Is it worse to behead someone to protect your business or religious interests? I don’t know. To the headless it makes little difference.
The Headless Way
Don’t cartels usually leave people alone who don’t get involved? I think it would be better to live in a cartel run city than an isis run city, but I can’t really back that up.
Interesting framing. Nice work.
Both evil but one can be much more easily solved. With the right incentives (or lack thereof) the cartel problem could go away. The jihad problem is much more persistent.
Organized criminals probably don't see themsevles as bad people. Probably think they are just running a business that is supplying a demand for something people want. They might argue that they are no more immoral than Boeing and Lockheed Martin that provide weapons that kill innocent civilians around the world.
And they would be correct.
The nice thing about those who are purely self-interested is that the levers society can pull to change their behavior are more obvious. The social ills that enable cartels are fairly obvious, as are the solutions. The same can't be said of religious zealotry. It's still a solvable problem, but I think it's a more difficult one. The question of who's technically worse morally isn't terribly interesting or important.
There’s no free will so you can measure by impact. Jihadists are at the highest level of govt in the Middle East so ideology manifests as state wide oppression ie Afghanistan, Iran. The cartels do a lot of killing as well, but the state apparatus is not so enthralled to cartel as it is with Jihadists. But if you wanna take it at a free will level, then you’d have to go with cartels because the Jihadi are actually just too principaled by Islam, whereas the cartels are entirely unprincipled by the common environmental standards.
This geopolitical version of "who would win if a bear and tiger fight" lol. Jihadists see their actions as the moral thing to do but cartels are violent literally for the sake of immorality of it, showcasing how evil they are and not to be messed with. So I guess cartels are worse.
I feel like people here have a very idealized version of djihadists. They are not the holy brainwashed fighters you make them out to be. They basically operate as mafias in the sahel and near orient, selling drugs, human trafficking. The religious persecution is just a way for them to justify victimizing some people and recruit new members
There’s a lot of overlap between these two groups believe it or not. Hamas and Hezbollah themselves raise lots of money selling drugs in Brazil and Paraguay. ISIS also took part in drug and human trafficking.
If you mean drug cartels, for the most part they create and distribute a product people want. They generate a lot of money. Obviously - they also kill people. Terrorists don’t do a lot of value creation.
Cartels. The jihadists are relatively contained and remote, at least from the US. And the Cartels are responsible for more misery.
Not to in anyway forgive cartels for their violence but if it wasn't for drug war laws around the world they would just be Pfizer, Anheuser-Busch, or Philip Morris. Bin Laden was one of the wealthiest people on earth and instead lived in a cave driven to murder people.
I mean... Cartels are at least trying to make money. Religious fanatics are just doing what they do because of magic?
Lots of religious folks in the cartels as well (according to the movies), whom love their families. Also, those guys are working for their dollars and we could easily cut their legs out via drug legalization so the US is partly to blame for forcing them into their criminal ways vs welcoming them in to a free market economy. I like the hard work they are all about and they aren’t randomly blowing up people in groups, they are targeting specific individuals. The jihadist are both religious AND political and politics is very very stupid. In fact it has achieved a status much more stupid than religion, that takes real work and dedication. So they are by far worse.
i think you're delusional if you think that drug legalization would just make the cartels evaporate into nothingness. sure all of the revenue guys growing and processing the drugs would disappear, but the soldiers whose job are just perpetrating violence would not just become truck drivers, they'd just switch to extortion, stickups, kidnapping and human trafficking.
We need to absorb them into the capital machine. Turn them into upstanding tax paying citizens.
You like the hard work that drug cartels put in?
They are just trying to earn a living.
So are billions of other people... that's hardly an excuse
Dude, I think u/thrillhouz77 is just being sarcastic. Chill.
I hope so 😅
I didn’t think of this earlier. But the jihadist are trying to get w 72 virgins, I can respect that as well.
Nah, it's just one 72-year-old virgin. They'll see.
Ouch…got you good jihadi! 😂😂😂
The question wasn’t is selling drugs moral. The question which of the two cartel employee or Jihadist are worse morally speaking. Murdering people with no regard to whom is in the way, in the name of your religion, is far far worse than being in the drug trades. The people who perish from drug use are not forced to use drugs, they are making it as their own personal choice.
I know OPs question, my question to you was why you said you like the work that they do
I was comparing the motivation and ethics of both groups. There is at least nobility in work even if the work is less than moral.
Ahh.. I get what you're saying!
Aware that legal businesses like the alcohol industry and tobacco are family businesses and have been killing people for decades, but this is just bullshit 😅🤣. One hit of Meth or Heroin and you are addicted - and soon after permanent brain changes. And nowadays it is tainted with fentanyl. The DEA is seizing shipments of God knows what that have enough lethal doses to kill an entire State. These drug dealers don't give a fuck about you and are happy spreading their death powder indescriminantly to your children. The El Chapo's are a family business and may be Religious - and it's just good ol Capitalism - so that gives them a reprieve and makes their actions Romantic? No it does not. Fuck em. 🖕
Funny that we have so much anti drug talk in a Sam Harris forum. Guy can’t stop talking about psychedelics.
I don't think the Cartels turn out a lot of Magic Mushrooms. In either case LSD and Psilocybin is not Meth and Fentanyl. I think most Sam Harris subscribers are smart enough to know that. MDMA is questionable as to its toxicity, and has potential to be poisoned by other things.
The cartels are up front about what they want, jihadists? Who knows. And not to single out jihadists, even. All religious zealots.
You shouldn't compare "religious zealots" with Jihadism. They're not the same. Not even remotely.
Jihadists are obviously much worse The cartel doesn’t believe they’re moral. It’s just business. The jihadists believe they’re moral and therefore are way more dangerous
Cartels we can legslize away. Can't do that with a jihad.
Morally speaking everyone is blameless. This is a direct and logically airtight consequence of the fact that free will doesn't exist. Except if you disagree, then you're ontologically evil.
I think jihadists are worse
The jihadi’s. They actually believe God wills them to act in the way they do. They are both terrible but one is doing it in pursuit of wealth and power the other by divine guidance.
The ideology of the jihadist is more evil while the people involved are less evil. The ideology of the cartel is less evil while the people involved are more evil. It’s like a layered cake with more evil going upwards on the y axis… the top is the jihadist ideology, next comes cartel members, then cartel ideology, and finally jihadists themselves. If you discover the truth and maintain jihad and propagate it while enlightened, you’re in outer space evil.
What is what this karma farming crap ? What’s worse ? Go post this somewhere relevant. Once again this sub is being brigaded by completely off topic nonsense.
Cartel are tiny bit less misogynistic and I don’t think they bomb themselves or kill other people for not upholding their own lifestyle.
What about this? *BOTH* are bad!
Trump, in a manner of speaking, is worse than any of them. A liar has a goal and reason for a deception to make sense. Trump is a bullshiter...worse than a liar because he is contracting himself constantly, sometimes in the same sentence. Nothing he says matters as it's all fantasy in his head spilling out of his mouth. It's just utter chaos.
Trump is *worse* than Hamas? Because that's what you're implying.
I a manner of speaking.
Trump's vocabulary isn't great but his policies are (for one, he'll give Israel the weapons it needs to demolish both Hezbollah and Hamas).
Btw I'm looking forward to Trump intellectually destroying his opponent come Thursday. Just sayin'.
😂
Laugh away but it'll happen.
The Iraq / Afghan war. Decades long, millions of civilian deaths, maximum suffering, trillions spent of tax payer money, regional instability, further radicalizing of crazy extremist, etc The profit seeking entities are responsible for some of the motive here. So when you ask what’s morally worse, I have a hard time not throwing this event into the hat.
Add in all of the drug overdose deaths, and you get a sizable contribution to the destruction from all 3!