It might be good to get people to ask "have you heard the spiel?" Or "do you want an infodump about this hobby?" Or what have you :)
We are the neurodivergent social club of choice
I definitely do "have you heard the spiel"
when actively recruiting like at events we host demo booths at I literally just go with "do you like medieval stuff?" and let their enthusiasm level guide what level of the speil they get 😁
I actually went to an event outside of the SCA recently that used this system with bead necklaces. It worked really well and let everyone feel comfortable and jump/get pulled in without feeling forced.
I think it's a solid idea to use colored badges as long as everyone knows the color coding.
My issue with this is that it'd be very difficult to explain to people already in the SCA what the various colors mean and get people to remember it. And it only gets worse when you're trying to communicate this to people that aren't even in the organization
i mean same as anything the key is consistency. as I'm trying to learn to think more locally this is less of an issue as our barony is so close knit that there's no doubt in my mind our group will get the memo. if we tried to get some sca wide thing going it'd be more difficult.
So, each color represents a level of social engagement. For example, green could mean you are an extrovert who would absolutely love to do all the things, while red might mean you would prefer to engage at your own pace.
I hope that's helpful.
I've seen this concept for dogs: green collars mean "friendly, please interact"; yellow collars mean "nervous/need space"; red collars mean "reactive/possibly aggressive, do not touch". (There are other colors to indicate things like service dogs or dogs with medical conditions, which wouldn't apply to Scadians.)
I mean, they might. I struggle with asking people, even people I know well, to help me set up my gear. Even when my body isn't a complete disaster (less and less, now), I am too short to put up the tent alone. A "please ask me if I need help" necklace would be good to distinguish rather than assuming, since some people with visible disabilities don't need help.
This is a little hard to verify historically so I verbally tell people this I have a banner with a red door on it at my tent if anything is ever happening that someone feels unsafe or you feel like you need to get away from someone or your lost and can’t find your group find my red door banner and I’ll do what I can to help if that’s food youll get food if it’s a place to stay while we contact site security because of a partner or creep then that’s what we’ll do as long as I can help that’s what I’ll do that’s part of being chivalrous to me
I’ve seen complaints of men being weird to women especially when their new so I want to try to create as safe of an environment as I can
It is people like you who made me feel safe enough to join with the sca. Lavander/pink feathers as i know it from reading posts off of this kingdom of reddit means that those feather colors are sage place and peoples. I am still doing a deep dive in research and have not come to a conclusion yet, but perhaps we as reddit can come together and decide on a feather color or something.
It really warmed my heart to experience events in person and have met people like you who want to make this experience available to everyone. You are a kind soul.
This makes me happy. I'm going down a history rabbit hole. If we can't find anything maybe we can put our heads together and make a "red door" as our other favorite cousin suggested?
Yeah I’ve been using the red door since I’ve seen some websites claim that it was used by churches in England to signify sanctuary for travelers but I haven’t found any reliable sources for that
I like that you have initiated this topic and are looking for solutions - thanks for bringing it up.
Your suggestions are similar to what a number of retail establishments are starting to initiate - certain color baskets or carts depending on whether or not you want to be left alone to look or be assisted.
However, I also understand some of the points that OwlResearch has brought up. "New" tokens on young women especially can result in unwanted attention. But if you left it to the individuals as to whether they wanted to use the badges/tokens then I don't see where it would be a problem. Then those who just want to jump in could also do their thing.
Honestly, I could see this working in other ways. As a long-time member with a decent list of awards, I'm often called on to greet newcomers. Unfortunately, I also deal with generalized anxiety disorder/social anxiety disorder. There are times that I wouldn't mind having a way to let folks know when I'm overwhelmed and need space without having to verbalize it. Perhaps it would keep folks from automatically assuming I'm being a sooty, stuck up bowl of alphabet soup, which is also painful.
ooooo the shopping baskets is the perfect comparison! I couldn't think of anything but the dog leashes someone else brought up but I didn't to draw that comparison in the main post lol.
I can see how a newcomer neon lamp would be a problem for women at war but like local events? is this an issue in yalls areas? I would not worry about that in my barony. We've had our fair share of overly flirty unlordlies but not at all targeting newer women...just like in general kind of annoying fboys.
But I suppose that would be the difference in membership. I'm sure if there were 3x as many in my areas the risk would be there
I'm NOT saying it isn't an issue even just at annoying level...but that's a human society issue not something curable by any of us nor specific to the SCA
I am neurodivergant with an anxiety disorder and i went to my first SCA event Border Wars. I even ended up camping over night which is something i never thought i would be able to do- ever.
What helped me was the Silvermoon camp, haveing a preset place that was a safe zone for me to scurry off to if i felt overwhelmed.
The people in that group are super chill, I am going to go to another event soon. Which i never thought i would do.
I joined, havent made my persona page yet but i did! Also having the reddit page is cool, I enjoy more online information and social interaction through here. It's also what helped me decide to come to an actual event. I might meet someone of my friends from the Reddit Kingdom lol.
Much love
I'll be honest. I kind of don't like these ideas. I may even actively dislike those ideas.
When I join a group, I want to be part of the group.
I don't want to be othered and constantly refered to as a "Newcomer"
It's creating this dynamic that says "you are new, and you must be identified as new until we accept you as no longer a newcomer"
We should make an effort that our postings and events are accessable to people with every level of experience in the SCA.
I think we should normalize reframing things as universal advice instead of advice for newcomers.
Instead of "Newcomers Guide to Camping " just make "An SCA guide to camping "
Instead of "Newcomers event list" just make it "Upcoming events"
You're making a lot of assumptions about someone when you treat them a certain way because they are new.
I've joined a bunch of different clubs and groups and they typically just give you resources and integrate you into the group rather than treat you like you're an outsider needing special attention.
I have mixed thoughts on the idea of badges.
If everyone wore something that indicated their preference to talk to people that would be fine? But also? Very strange?
I've seen a similar sort of thing for parties where lots of people don't know each other and the wrist bands indicate the sort of relationship someone might be seeking.
If we had all the new people wear say, a lanyard with a symbol on it- I think it would be a bad idea.
It instantly identifies the person as vulnerable and unfamiliar with the environment.
Maybe I'm biased? I brought two of my friends who are women in their late 20s to an event. Once they realized they are new, I swear every guy old enough to be their dad was trying to hit on them. They were super uncomfortable.
That's a different topic but it sort of gives context to not wanting to give obvious indication that someone is new.
I agree with all your points!
I also think deliberately separating out 'newcomers' from other folks creates a divide where it's easy to feel like an outsider whose presence isn't totally welcome yet. Or, the 'actual' group vs people who still need to learn.
At my barony's weekly meetings, we used to have a 'newcomers room', but it recently became more of a 'crafting' room, where folks bring in and work on whatever project they've got, while socializing. Anyone can bounce in and watch a demonstration of how something's done, and ask questions about what it involves. Folks have started bringing in extra tools and materials that others can use to learn on.
So, even people who have been at the SCA for years, but now want to expand their repertoire, can sit in and learn about this new craft. Or, someone who is new to the SCA but experienced with embroidery can bring their kit and have people want to learn from them.
The dynamic became less "Newcomer (outsider) / SCA Member (insider)" but rather "New to *this craft* / Experienced in *this craft*."
The "introduction to the sca" presentation is still held once a month, but it's become a lot more organic - as new people show up, they're directed to the crafting room. They end up getting a general overview of the group by the welcoming committee that hangs out there anyway, asked what kind of stuff they're interested in, and then launched directly at the nearest folks who know about those topics.
If that person wants to know about fighting, someone can lead them over to the fighting room, and handed to the masters over there as someone who wants to learn.
I totally get what you mean and dont disagree with anything completely. which is why I'm here to talk about it. I'm legit trouble shooting these issues. I wouldn't have any of my ideas be mandatory only an option.
I cant really agree with not using the word newcomer as if it's supposed to be derogatory instead of simply the adjective that it is.... like there's just a difference in how much effort i need to put in the help a person when they are new to the sca or not. I have to be more attentive to newcomers as my office entails.
I would normally just go "oh yeah you should talk to Lady Jager" as response to a question from a member. But for newcomers I'll mention the person who would be helpful and reach out myself try to organize an introduction and it's a whole thing.
I've never heard anyone refer to new people in a bad way. it's just someone you should be attentive to explaining the SCA specific things to. and as the wizend SCAeterans we shouldn't expect newcomers to find the answers or struggle on their own. I can see how it could be taken as being othered but It's not a lower class just a different subject.
***I don't see "Intro to SCA" as a lower level of education than any other "Intro To" course. it's just a subject to learn and we choose to learn it. a lot of people can learn by doing...some of us (me)...needs step by step instructions and study guides.***
I certainly see your point. Ideally we would help everyone all the time just because it's the right thing to do. however...individuals only have so many spoons and as humans we tend to serve our family first. scadians are a pretty close knit group. to our power and detriment. as chatelaine I give free spoons to all newcomers willingly and without exception but plenty of scadians tend to ration their efforts with people they dont trust to stick around. we feel just as awkward with newcomers as they feel with us because we don't know eachother. It's a lot easier to devote your time and efforts to help someone when you know what to expect from them.
I can definately see labeling some guides as "newcomer" versions being rediculus but like what I did was take the event schedule and break it down in common terms and with my own perspective from when I was a newcomer things I had wondered but been too afraid to ask. I dont think most scadians would care to read my version and I do know newcomers would hate to have missed the added insight if it would have helped their anxiety.
all of my efforts in this concept stem from my own very severe anxieties and wishing to mitigate or avoid anyone else having the same issues.
You're reply is a great example of the mentality I think we need to move away from in the SCA.
In your post you split people into two categories, the SCAdians and the Newcomers.
I have also been a chatelaine, and I don't think it's a helpful approach.
Let's say it's your first event, would you feel more comfortable at a class called "Newcomers Guide to the SCA" or "Introduction to the SCA"
Let's say you're been in the SCA for two years, would you be more likely to attend a class "Newcomers Guide to Heraldry" or "Intro to Heraldry"
Yes, in house, new people to the group do take more time to orient to all the vocabulary. But I personally think we should not be grouping them together into their own special term.
As chatelaines, I think referring to people as "newcomers" is othering them and not helpful.
I think that term and concept only serves to make the SCA more insular and only benefits the "wizend SCAeterans" by making them feel self important and like gatekeepers to the newcomers.
I said wizened scaetrans as a way to not say scadian as if its some exclusive thing to have happened to have came to the sane place 2 years earlier than the newcomer.
my argument is purely that there has got to be a way to refer to a person who I as a chatelaine would need to put my attentions to. a word give me a word that isn't newcomer or newbie or recruit (nixed that one cus it comes off MLM-ish) to just like say *"a person who does not know the ropes of SCA yet"*
I do not put privilege into the word SCADIAN it is simply a reference of familiarity with the concept if the SCA.
I do very much see that a different perspective puts a different context to the wording....but I am very ignorant to the right way to indicate a person has no or less experience in the SCA
I also think that people reading in their own subcontext into a single wording issue creates more barriers for everyone. I know very well what I mean ever time I type newcomer or scadian and I am unaware of any other words to use to say those concepts. I also do in fact need to be able to refer to the different levels of familiarity and want to do so without harming any group or individual (and if we started using some other word than newbie/necomer...some cutesy thing like SCAlet or preSCAd some dbag would start usubg it as an insult and then itd become the same problem)
I'm bad at explaining myself. I'm not disagreeing that it can be taken insultingly and as othering...I'm just very frustrated that there isn't just a word I can freely use to say "a newcomer to the SCA" that wouldn't ever be taken to apparently mean "that person is stupid point and laugh at them"
I truly just mean that this is a person who knows less about this thing than us because they only just recently learned of the concept...
Jedi is to Padawan what Scadian is too ___?___
what ***I*** mean by "newcomer" is is someone who they themselves would not be confident enough for whatever reason they have to call themselves a SCAdian. everyone has their own pace for when they feel this way and my goal in hospitaling is to find a way to shorten that gap for everyone.
SCAling? SCAlacule? SCAvice?
My point is that we should be using person first language* and not using terms that put people into groups.
Even your example, Jedi is to Padawan, SCAdian is to X, implies a hierarchy.
I don't think it is helpful to have a term, a noun, to describe someone who is new to the SCA.
When I was chatelaine I didn't call people newcomers or other terms to other them.
Bad: This is a newcomer.
Good: This is Sam, he heard about the SCA from the demo at the library last week.
Why do you need a blanket noun to refer to a group of people who know less about something than you do?
*Person first language is common in the medical field. For example, you wouldn't refer to a patient as a diabetic. You'd refer to them as a person with diabetes. The idea is to move away from language that dehumanizes people in vulnerable situations.
(People may self identify by these terms, lots of people with diabetes refer to themselves as diabetic because that was the culture for a long time - people might refer to themselves as newcomers - I'm saying as chatelaines it's our role to not contribute to the hierarchy by calling them newcomers)
I fully do understand what you mean...
and I fully recognize that my urge for a word is somewhere between silly and absurd...my therapist has questions on why I seek such specific boxes. but idk I just like a perfect word for Uber specific things makes my brain and heart sync up on the same topic I suppose.
my reason for wanting **A** word is the same as someone not wanting that specific word. I sought out the words for my sexuality instead of settling for just bi or just queer even. some people like a label and see it as a badge of honor instead of a neon "kick me" sign.
my urge for a word doesn't nullify the concern that others feel a label is hurtful even when well intended. i recognize that this is a concern (though notably both sides of this are completely and equally pedantic)
I 100% do not care who knows more or less than I do. it's not a matter of knowledge when you haven't attended the lesson. I do not in ANY way find it inferior to have just happened to have not heard of the SCA until walking in the park and happening by a bunch of people dressed so damn cool you had to ask. I consider all of these people one of us wholeheartedly... I just also do have specific things that are geared specifically towards them. content and advice that the would be bored of but the would find wisdom and comfort in.
idk any other way to communicate that while I understand your stance and believe you mean well by it I feel the opposite....I also accept fully that there is no right answer. use newcomer you may offend someone by somehow implying stupidity over being newer in comparison to other people who have been there longer. don't use newcomer and some new people who googled "sca newcomer" doesn't see the thing that could help them...
When I joined the SCA I didn't Google anything about "newcomer"
My point is that "newcomer" is a term you want to use to assign to someone else. You are choosing to assign someone an identity and putting them in a box based on your view of them.
When I joined the SCA, I didn't view myself as a newcomer. I viewed myself as a fencer. I viewed myself as an archer. There wasn't a focus on the fact that I was new. I was treated like an equal participant in the activity.
Your sexuality is a great example, you sought out a term that you felt identified you. You choose an identity.
If you went to a LGBTQ+ community group and they labeled and reffered to you as a "newcomer" how would that make you feel?
It's not the words you pick for the label, it's the idea that you feel the need to mentally separate the people into two different groups - one with a hierarchy.
I did a googled newcomer everything.
I also would be bothered zero to be referred to as someone new to the group...because I would be. it's a time label not a quality label I do NOT understand how time has hierarchy. I see how it has roles. a newcomer I would expect to need introduced or guided. I would ask different questions and suggest different things
I do this when I chatelaine a newcomer (person A) into our group vs chatelaining a scadian who relocated(person B)...If I micro explain every sca verbiage to (B) they will be annoyed if I don't do so with (A) they will be lost. it's different not better or worse. I can boast (and complain) about either changes to the approach and response either person has.
While I understand the concept of first person language, I don't agree with terming efforts to solve a problem good or bad. I also believe the given examples are skewed a bit. Never have I ever heard some introduced as "This is a newcomer". Usually it would be something along the lines of "This is Fred. He is new to our group". That is not hierarchical language. That is statement of fact and can lead to further conversation. "Wonderful! Welcome! How did you hear about us?"
I'm saying we need a new word that everyone can use to refer to a specific subset of people NOT a higher or lower level of person....just like all of the inclusive language that we are still learning within the bigger issues of human society.
Native is a very vague word that lumps together 100s of cultures...but it's accepted as the acceptable term
Queer was once a slur and now we use it freely and specifically (and myself as a badge of honor though it too is far more vague than my identifying words)
Ginger is still widely seen as insulting though as a proud redhead it is my favorite identifier
my protest to your protest is coming from the knowledge that language IS important.
The job, in my opinion, is to help people find the activities they want to participate in, and I don't think it should be restricted to how long the person has been participating in the SCA.
Yes, when I was chatelaine I was a contact person for folks who heard about us in the demos/Internet/word of mouth.
But my role was to get them in touch with the practice or event or person that would best suit their interest.
This also occasionally involved fielding questions from experienced members who wanted to participate in a different aspect of the SCA.
Would I hand Sir John the Bold the "Newcomers Guide to A&S" , no, but he did enjoy "Intro to A&S" and being put in contact with the local MoAS.
My job was not to spout the SCA monologue to each person I met.
My job was to get to know each individual, find their interests, then direct them based on what they wanted to explore.
I think I would have been less effective as a chatelaine if I was mentally categorizing them as a collective group of "newcomers"
In Meridies, we have a (fully optional) badge and favor we sometimes give out to newcomers to wear for as long as they feel comfortable doing so. When I came back after a break of a few years, I was given one by someone who didnt feel the need to wear it anymore, and once I felt comfortable again I passed it on to a new newcomer. It helped me be more confident in figuring out garb and camp stuff again, as well as helping me feel safe to ask “noob questions” that I either forgot or never actually knew the answers to. Also at some events we have households and drives that will sponsor/comp a person if it’s their first event.
Let newcomers request a guide who is a volunteer if they want one. The guide can show them around the event and introduce them to people. Make them understand etiquette and hospitality. Then turn the newcomer loose.
Or set up a newcomers point and the tour starts from there.
Oh this is a good idea! And couple it with a sign at the door, I remember being totally overcome with nerves even waiting in line to get into my first event (never mind actually talking to people!). Something like “New here? Ask for sir-guides-a-lot at the gate for a tour” would have been great direction and reassurance for that first step.
Baroness Álfrún [also in Æthelmearc] has been starting conversations lately about how we can better serve and integrate newcomers. I haven't seen any ideas take root yet [but I might just not know about it], but you would probably do well to message her and get involved in those conversations. [Sorry I don't have any suggestions on the topic.]
I'm not down with labeling newcomers, simply because I have never seen it work. Too many variables and pitfalls within. It is not a new idea. It is an old idea that always falls apart in practice.
(It's a bit superfluous anyway, at least in my local groups, we tend to know all the gold key garb by sight.)
The thing that does work, that I have seen show success many times over the years, is to showcase inclusive, easy to join activities, that anyone can walk up to and be a part of right away, regardless of experience or skill.
Thrown weapons in a good one. So is basic scribal stuff. So is (ugh) lucet cord making.
A table with periodesque games, featuring a friendly face to teach/play against. A cheerful dance teacher. Some silly peasanty picnic activities.
The sort of stuff that they can go home and say "I did x for the first time, I met some nice people, and it was really fun!"
You don't need a label for any of that. You don't even need to be new.
I totally see that. I'm really just here to trouble shoot and glad to have had the cons pointed out to me.
I tend to be a bit overzealous but happily take the criticism and try to figure out something that will work. idc if it's my idea, original, tried and true, an adaptation of a failed idea.
I really don't care how I just want people who want to feel wanted to be able to get the best welcome and those who need to slowly blend in to not be overwhelmed and leave us.
I do think that if I were to instigate some sort of badge for newcomers it would be a voluntary option for those who want more help or who want way less help. this isn't out of othering it's out of allowing people with opposite anxieties to both get what they need when they are new to this.
One thing that I think would really help in newcomers guides, is a kind of timeline for the pre-event stuff.
Like, if you need to borrow garb and/or feasting kit, e-mail this person at least a week before the event.
Or, the steps for booking are: fill in and submit booking form, receive payment instructions, pay in full before the event (or confirm payment plan details with booking officer).
For "this person needs a friend", I think it's also to be aware which SCAdians attend events to hangout and vibe (opposed to people running and participating in activities). I know a few people who are friendly, knowledgeable, AND generally have free time. So I ask what newcomers are interested in or curious about, and try to match them up with someone at the event.
>There is a lot of overlap of the type of person who is so very into medieval history and nuero divergence so it comes up a lot.
I'm going to disagree with this. Rather, there is a much higher than normal percentage of the population that is nuerodivergent within the SCA than outside of it or in pretty much any other group. I've been to other groups and events - particularly 18th Century- that have far, far more nuerotypical individuals.
Rather, I think enough nuerodivergent individuals took over the SCA that it has become less about a focus on medieval and Renaissance history and more about recruiting additional nuerodivergent individuals. I know some will argue against that but seeing some of the newcomers and who tends to stay for more than an event or two, to me, it's pretty clear that is the case. It's also one of the reasons the SCA has such a recruitment problem. It can be exhausting for a neurotypical person to be around nuerodivergent individuals.
I think it's important for our organization to be welcoming to everyone who is not a jerk. In my area, our focus is definitely on medieval and Renaissance stuff, and folks who are interested in that can join us. It's possible that your perception is based around some folks not feeling welcome in other organizations. I think OP is just trying to help new folks feel welcome, and I think that's a laudable goal.
I'm not arguing with the entirety of OP's post, just the one clause I highlighted. As far as welcoming everyone who is not a jerk, I urge you to do a search here on all the cliques and people running into problems with a knight/duke/duchess/ect.
Well, other groups kick people out for being weird and we mostly just kick people out for things where the police are involved.
SCA events are also very chill.
Are we focused on recruiting more neurodivergent people? Or do we just assume if someone is in the SCA they must be neurodivergent? It's sort of a bandwagon thing at this point. Everyone thinks they're on the autism spectrum, everyone has an anxiety disorder, everyone has attention deficit disorder. Almost nobody is completely straight with no caveats.
> Are we focused on recruiting more neurodivergent people? Or do we just assume if someone is in the SCA they must be neurodivergent? It's sort of a bandwagon thing at this point. Everyone thinks they're on the autism spectrum, everyone has an anxiety disorder, everyone has attention deficit disorder. Almost nobody is completely straight with no caveats.
I don't disagree. What I do disagree with is interest in Medieval history =neurodivergent. If it was true, then every single person studying or who studied medieval and Renaissance history at a higher education institution would have an interest, if not be, in the SCA. Instead, most of the people in the SCA appear to have careers in engineering or in the military far more than archeologists. Not saying there aren't archeologists - just not in the higher concentrations that you would expect if Medieval history = neurodivergent as the OP claimed.
Not interest in medieval history so much as a willingness and desire to make kumihimo cords and do other obscure and tedious crafts.
Where I am, we almost never talk about medieval history at events. Lot of crafts though.
> Not interest in medieval history so much as a willingness and desire to make kumihimo cords and do other obscure and tedious crafts.
>
> Where I am, we almost never talk about medieval history at events. Lot of crafts though.
Which goes to my point! Thank you. The OP was the one that said:
>There is a lot of overlap of the type of person who is so very into medieval history and nuero divergence so it comes up a lot.
And that is what I'm disagreeing with.
Can we just be shy without being neurodivergent these days? I'm old enough to remember when you could just be shy. Need something to talk about? History. Better than pets or kids or even food. But now if you're shy and want to talk about history it must be a kind of neurodivergent habit.
We're volunteers in the SCA, not special education teachers. I'd like to see us try harder to attract people who are smart. Instead we spend our energy accommodating the neurodivergent. And becoming a bottom tier LARP playing with string and bits of wire instead of a good educational organization doing meaningful work. But it's what people want right now. Badges to identify extroverts and newcomers. More kudos for "largesse" by the dozens than for classes. Quiet spaces at events that are already quiet enough to sleep through.
Oh well. If everyone thinks they're neurodivergent then it's just democracy at work.
"I'd like to see us try harder to attract people who are smart."
With such kind and eloquent members such as yourself, I'm surprised the SCA isn't the next Mensa.
You're such a disappointment.
not specifically to you only but to all the replies as well.
1. Yeah the SCA is inclusive and it's wonderful. don't like it? you have choices.... leave and get over it, stay and grumble quietly, or create a movement in which you actively publicly advocate for not allowing any sort of accommodations for anyone's mental or physical health or any combination there of. ***your stance on this only matters as much as you are willing to act on it.*** Go for it truly.
2. How educational could the sca be if it were only experts?... it would be a bunch of history phds quibbling without a critical thought between them. the sca doesn't have any lack of experts what we have is a lack of students because of various real life barriers...one of which is social anxieties. which while for one person would cause them to be mildly bothered, uncomfortable, or annoyed but for another would cause heart palpitations and hyperventilation...
3. no nuerodivergence is not a bandwagon. Just like all things> with mainstream attention and acceptance we see it more because people are less afraid to hide it. it's the same with a million topics of individual needs.
4. I'd rather some person call themself autistic and get some extra help even when they don't need it than me not offer help in the first place. likely they just need to be seen and included and that sounds like a pretty good thing to provide to anyone who needs it.
I don't think anyone is arguing that there shouldn't be accessibility? I'm trying to figure out who you are arguing with. All I'm saying is that a interest in medieval history doesn't mean the person is neuro divergent. Also, that the SCA has a way higher percentage of neuro divergent individuals than other history/LARP/social clubs but it has nothing to do with Medieval history.
put badges on new commers? yeah that would be a target saying attack this "person". there are many more nasty attack dogs in the sca than there are helpful people
I've met many more helpful people than "nasty attack dogs" in the SCA. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that term. It may be that some areas have bigger issues with this than others. In some places, an indicator might help helpful people keep an eye out for new folks and try to shield them from problematic folks. I do think the new folks should have a choice to not wear anything that singles them out, if they don't want to be approached or have any concerns about it.
This person has a serious grudge against the SCA and takes every opportunity to complain about the organization...they regularly call us cultists and pedophiles. Ignore them.
(By saying this, I have certainly made myself a target of their wrath and will not respond to this thread.)
There are too many ways a newcomer badge makes someone a target and not enough people to protect newcomers from people who say, "That's just how we do things in the SCA." Like the cloven fruit thing. We have no rights, we have very little recourse when someone does something wrong. They are incentivized to cover it up. It's a Victorian novel, not English Common law. It's Sicily in the 1950s, not Ancient Rome.
It might be good to get people to ask "have you heard the spiel?" Or "do you want an infodump about this hobby?" Or what have you :) We are the neurodivergent social club of choice
I definitely do "have you heard the spiel" when actively recruiting like at events we host demo booths at I literally just go with "do you like medieval stuff?" and let their enthusiasm level guide what level of the speil they get 😁
I actually went to an event outside of the SCA recently that used this system with bead necklaces. It worked really well and let everyone feel comfortable and jump/get pulled in without feeling forced. I think it's a solid idea to use colored badges as long as everyone knows the color coding.
I like the necklace idea. I think it provides a signal to folks who know to look for it without being obtrusive.
My issue with this is that it'd be very difficult to explain to people already in the SCA what the various colors mean and get people to remember it. And it only gets worse when you're trying to communicate this to people that aren't even in the organization
i mean same as anything the key is consistency. as I'm trying to learn to think more locally this is less of an issue as our barony is so close knit that there's no doubt in my mind our group will get the memo. if we tried to get some sca wide thing going it'd be more difficult.
It could certainly pose an issue, but I feel that we could find ways to work through those issues.
Can you explain this a little more I’d like to mention it to my group
So, each color represents a level of social engagement. For example, green could mean you are an extrovert who would absolutely love to do all the things, while red might mean you would prefer to engage at your own pace. I hope that's helpful.
I've seen this concept for dogs: green collars mean "friendly, please interact"; yellow collars mean "nervous/need space"; red collars mean "reactive/possibly aggressive, do not touch". (There are other colors to indicate things like service dogs or dogs with medical conditions, which wouldn't apply to Scadians.)
I hadn't heard of it for dogs, but that's pretty cool!
I mean, they might. I struggle with asking people, even people I know well, to help me set up my gear. Even when my body isn't a complete disaster (less and less, now), I am too short to put up the tent alone. A "please ask me if I need help" necklace would be good to distinguish rather than assuming, since some people with visible disabilities don't need help.
I saw a post about feather meanings and the pink feathers represent safe people. Are there feather colors for people like us?
This is a little hard to verify historically so I verbally tell people this I have a banner with a red door on it at my tent if anything is ever happening that someone feels unsafe or you feel like you need to get away from someone or your lost and can’t find your group find my red door banner and I’ll do what I can to help if that’s food youll get food if it’s a place to stay while we contact site security because of a partner or creep then that’s what we’ll do as long as I can help that’s what I’ll do that’s part of being chivalrous to me I’ve seen complaints of men being weird to women especially when their new so I want to try to create as safe of an environment as I can
It is people like you who made me feel safe enough to join with the sca. Lavander/pink feathers as i know it from reading posts off of this kingdom of reddit means that those feather colors are sage place and peoples. I am still doing a deep dive in research and have not come to a conclusion yet, but perhaps we as reddit can come together and decide on a feather color or something. It really warmed my heart to experience events in person and have met people like you who want to make this experience available to everyone. You are a kind soul.
Thank you for telling me about the feathers I’m going to start doing some research into that
This makes me happy. I'm going down a history rabbit hole. If we can't find anything maybe we can put our heads together and make a "red door" as our other favorite cousin suggested?
Yeah I’ve been using the red door since I’ve seen some websites claim that it was used by churches in England to signify sanctuary for travelers but I haven’t found any reliable sources for that
That is very cool.. maybe we can use red feathers than? I am still very new to the "knowne" world .
I would love to get together pelicans and hospitalars since they would be the ones that know more than me about new members
Many protestant churches where I am have red doors even today, so there may be something to that.
I actually don't know the answer to that, but there could be.
I need to know now, i shall research this.
Please do and let me know what you learn!
Will do! Time to put on my explorer hat and go down this new rabbit hole. If you don't hear from me in a few weeks- let my family know I love them.
Godspeed and good luck.
I like that you have initiated this topic and are looking for solutions - thanks for bringing it up. Your suggestions are similar to what a number of retail establishments are starting to initiate - certain color baskets or carts depending on whether or not you want to be left alone to look or be assisted. However, I also understand some of the points that OwlResearch has brought up. "New" tokens on young women especially can result in unwanted attention. But if you left it to the individuals as to whether they wanted to use the badges/tokens then I don't see where it would be a problem. Then those who just want to jump in could also do their thing. Honestly, I could see this working in other ways. As a long-time member with a decent list of awards, I'm often called on to greet newcomers. Unfortunately, I also deal with generalized anxiety disorder/social anxiety disorder. There are times that I wouldn't mind having a way to let folks know when I'm overwhelmed and need space without having to verbalize it. Perhaps it would keep folks from automatically assuming I'm being a sooty, stuck up bowl of alphabet soup, which is also painful.
ooooo the shopping baskets is the perfect comparison! I couldn't think of anything but the dog leashes someone else brought up but I didn't to draw that comparison in the main post lol. I can see how a newcomer neon lamp would be a problem for women at war but like local events? is this an issue in yalls areas? I would not worry about that in my barony. We've had our fair share of overly flirty unlordlies but not at all targeting newer women...just like in general kind of annoying fboys. But I suppose that would be the difference in membership. I'm sure if there were 3x as many in my areas the risk would be there
I'm NOT saying it isn't an issue even just at annoying level...but that's a human society issue not something curable by any of us nor specific to the SCA
I am neurodivergant with an anxiety disorder and i went to my first SCA event Border Wars. I even ended up camping over night which is something i never thought i would be able to do- ever. What helped me was the Silvermoon camp, haveing a preset place that was a safe zone for me to scurry off to if i felt overwhelmed. The people in that group are super chill, I am going to go to another event soon. Which i never thought i would do. I joined, havent made my persona page yet but i did! Also having the reddit page is cool, I enjoy more online information and social interaction through here. It's also what helped me decide to come to an actual event. I might meet someone of my friends from the Reddit Kingdom lol. Much love
I'll be honest. I kind of don't like these ideas. I may even actively dislike those ideas. When I join a group, I want to be part of the group. I don't want to be othered and constantly refered to as a "Newcomer" It's creating this dynamic that says "you are new, and you must be identified as new until we accept you as no longer a newcomer" We should make an effort that our postings and events are accessable to people with every level of experience in the SCA. I think we should normalize reframing things as universal advice instead of advice for newcomers. Instead of "Newcomers Guide to Camping " just make "An SCA guide to camping " Instead of "Newcomers event list" just make it "Upcoming events" You're making a lot of assumptions about someone when you treat them a certain way because they are new. I've joined a bunch of different clubs and groups and they typically just give you resources and integrate you into the group rather than treat you like you're an outsider needing special attention. I have mixed thoughts on the idea of badges. If everyone wore something that indicated their preference to talk to people that would be fine? But also? Very strange? I've seen a similar sort of thing for parties where lots of people don't know each other and the wrist bands indicate the sort of relationship someone might be seeking. If we had all the new people wear say, a lanyard with a symbol on it- I think it would be a bad idea. It instantly identifies the person as vulnerable and unfamiliar with the environment. Maybe I'm biased? I brought two of my friends who are women in their late 20s to an event. Once they realized they are new, I swear every guy old enough to be their dad was trying to hit on them. They were super uncomfortable. That's a different topic but it sort of gives context to not wanting to give obvious indication that someone is new.
I agree with all your points! I also think deliberately separating out 'newcomers' from other folks creates a divide where it's easy to feel like an outsider whose presence isn't totally welcome yet. Or, the 'actual' group vs people who still need to learn. At my barony's weekly meetings, we used to have a 'newcomers room', but it recently became more of a 'crafting' room, where folks bring in and work on whatever project they've got, while socializing. Anyone can bounce in and watch a demonstration of how something's done, and ask questions about what it involves. Folks have started bringing in extra tools and materials that others can use to learn on. So, even people who have been at the SCA for years, but now want to expand their repertoire, can sit in and learn about this new craft. Or, someone who is new to the SCA but experienced with embroidery can bring their kit and have people want to learn from them. The dynamic became less "Newcomer (outsider) / SCA Member (insider)" but rather "New to *this craft* / Experienced in *this craft*." The "introduction to the sca" presentation is still held once a month, but it's become a lot more organic - as new people show up, they're directed to the crafting room. They end up getting a general overview of the group by the welcoming committee that hangs out there anyway, asked what kind of stuff they're interested in, and then launched directly at the nearest folks who know about those topics. If that person wants to know about fighting, someone can lead them over to the fighting room, and handed to the masters over there as someone who wants to learn.
I totally get what you mean and dont disagree with anything completely. which is why I'm here to talk about it. I'm legit trouble shooting these issues. I wouldn't have any of my ideas be mandatory only an option. I cant really agree with not using the word newcomer as if it's supposed to be derogatory instead of simply the adjective that it is.... like there's just a difference in how much effort i need to put in the help a person when they are new to the sca or not. I have to be more attentive to newcomers as my office entails. I would normally just go "oh yeah you should talk to Lady Jager" as response to a question from a member. But for newcomers I'll mention the person who would be helpful and reach out myself try to organize an introduction and it's a whole thing. I've never heard anyone refer to new people in a bad way. it's just someone you should be attentive to explaining the SCA specific things to. and as the wizend SCAeterans we shouldn't expect newcomers to find the answers or struggle on their own. I can see how it could be taken as being othered but It's not a lower class just a different subject. ***I don't see "Intro to SCA" as a lower level of education than any other "Intro To" course. it's just a subject to learn and we choose to learn it. a lot of people can learn by doing...some of us (me)...needs step by step instructions and study guides.*** I certainly see your point. Ideally we would help everyone all the time just because it's the right thing to do. however...individuals only have so many spoons and as humans we tend to serve our family first. scadians are a pretty close knit group. to our power and detriment. as chatelaine I give free spoons to all newcomers willingly and without exception but plenty of scadians tend to ration their efforts with people they dont trust to stick around. we feel just as awkward with newcomers as they feel with us because we don't know eachother. It's a lot easier to devote your time and efforts to help someone when you know what to expect from them. I can definately see labeling some guides as "newcomer" versions being rediculus but like what I did was take the event schedule and break it down in common terms and with my own perspective from when I was a newcomer things I had wondered but been too afraid to ask. I dont think most scadians would care to read my version and I do know newcomers would hate to have missed the added insight if it would have helped their anxiety. all of my efforts in this concept stem from my own very severe anxieties and wishing to mitigate or avoid anyone else having the same issues.
You're reply is a great example of the mentality I think we need to move away from in the SCA. In your post you split people into two categories, the SCAdians and the Newcomers. I have also been a chatelaine, and I don't think it's a helpful approach. Let's say it's your first event, would you feel more comfortable at a class called "Newcomers Guide to the SCA" or "Introduction to the SCA" Let's say you're been in the SCA for two years, would you be more likely to attend a class "Newcomers Guide to Heraldry" or "Intro to Heraldry" Yes, in house, new people to the group do take more time to orient to all the vocabulary. But I personally think we should not be grouping them together into their own special term. As chatelaines, I think referring to people as "newcomers" is othering them and not helpful. I think that term and concept only serves to make the SCA more insular and only benefits the "wizend SCAeterans" by making them feel self important and like gatekeepers to the newcomers.
I said wizened scaetrans as a way to not say scadian as if its some exclusive thing to have happened to have came to the sane place 2 years earlier than the newcomer. my argument is purely that there has got to be a way to refer to a person who I as a chatelaine would need to put my attentions to. a word give me a word that isn't newcomer or newbie or recruit (nixed that one cus it comes off MLM-ish) to just like say *"a person who does not know the ropes of SCA yet"* I do not put privilege into the word SCADIAN it is simply a reference of familiarity with the concept if the SCA. I do very much see that a different perspective puts a different context to the wording....but I am very ignorant to the right way to indicate a person has no or less experience in the SCA I also think that people reading in their own subcontext into a single wording issue creates more barriers for everyone. I know very well what I mean ever time I type newcomer or scadian and I am unaware of any other words to use to say those concepts. I also do in fact need to be able to refer to the different levels of familiarity and want to do so without harming any group or individual (and if we started using some other word than newbie/necomer...some cutesy thing like SCAlet or preSCAd some dbag would start usubg it as an insult and then itd become the same problem)
I'm bad at explaining myself. I'm not disagreeing that it can be taken insultingly and as othering...I'm just very frustrated that there isn't just a word I can freely use to say "a newcomer to the SCA" that wouldn't ever be taken to apparently mean "that person is stupid point and laugh at them" I truly just mean that this is a person who knows less about this thing than us because they only just recently learned of the concept... Jedi is to Padawan what Scadian is too ___?___
what ***I*** mean by "newcomer" is is someone who they themselves would not be confident enough for whatever reason they have to call themselves a SCAdian. everyone has their own pace for when they feel this way and my goal in hospitaling is to find a way to shorten that gap for everyone. SCAling? SCAlacule? SCAvice?
My point is that we should be using person first language* and not using terms that put people into groups. Even your example, Jedi is to Padawan, SCAdian is to X, implies a hierarchy. I don't think it is helpful to have a term, a noun, to describe someone who is new to the SCA. When I was chatelaine I didn't call people newcomers or other terms to other them. Bad: This is a newcomer. Good: This is Sam, he heard about the SCA from the demo at the library last week. Why do you need a blanket noun to refer to a group of people who know less about something than you do? *Person first language is common in the medical field. For example, you wouldn't refer to a patient as a diabetic. You'd refer to them as a person with diabetes. The idea is to move away from language that dehumanizes people in vulnerable situations. (People may self identify by these terms, lots of people with diabetes refer to themselves as diabetic because that was the culture for a long time - people might refer to themselves as newcomers - I'm saying as chatelaines it's our role to not contribute to the hierarchy by calling them newcomers)
I fully do understand what you mean... and I fully recognize that my urge for a word is somewhere between silly and absurd...my therapist has questions on why I seek such specific boxes. but idk I just like a perfect word for Uber specific things makes my brain and heart sync up on the same topic I suppose. my reason for wanting **A** word is the same as someone not wanting that specific word. I sought out the words for my sexuality instead of settling for just bi or just queer even. some people like a label and see it as a badge of honor instead of a neon "kick me" sign. my urge for a word doesn't nullify the concern that others feel a label is hurtful even when well intended. i recognize that this is a concern (though notably both sides of this are completely and equally pedantic) I 100% do not care who knows more or less than I do. it's not a matter of knowledge when you haven't attended the lesson. I do not in ANY way find it inferior to have just happened to have not heard of the SCA until walking in the park and happening by a bunch of people dressed so damn cool you had to ask. I consider all of these people one of us wholeheartedly... I just also do have specific things that are geared specifically towards them. content and advice that the would be bored of but the would find wisdom and comfort in.
idk any other way to communicate that while I understand your stance and believe you mean well by it I feel the opposite....I also accept fully that there is no right answer. use newcomer you may offend someone by somehow implying stupidity over being newer in comparison to other people who have been there longer. don't use newcomer and some new people who googled "sca newcomer" doesn't see the thing that could help them...
When I joined the SCA I didn't Google anything about "newcomer" My point is that "newcomer" is a term you want to use to assign to someone else. You are choosing to assign someone an identity and putting them in a box based on your view of them. When I joined the SCA, I didn't view myself as a newcomer. I viewed myself as a fencer. I viewed myself as an archer. There wasn't a focus on the fact that I was new. I was treated like an equal participant in the activity. Your sexuality is a great example, you sought out a term that you felt identified you. You choose an identity. If you went to a LGBTQ+ community group and they labeled and reffered to you as a "newcomer" how would that make you feel? It's not the words you pick for the label, it's the idea that you feel the need to mentally separate the people into two different groups - one with a hierarchy.
I did a googled newcomer everything. I also would be bothered zero to be referred to as someone new to the group...because I would be. it's a time label not a quality label I do NOT understand how time has hierarchy. I see how it has roles. a newcomer I would expect to need introduced or guided. I would ask different questions and suggest different things I do this when I chatelaine a newcomer (person A) into our group vs chatelaining a scadian who relocated(person B)...If I micro explain every sca verbiage to (B) they will be annoyed if I don't do so with (A) they will be lost. it's different not better or worse. I can boast (and complain) about either changes to the approach and response either person has.
While I understand the concept of first person language, I don't agree with terming efforts to solve a problem good or bad. I also believe the given examples are skewed a bit. Never have I ever heard some introduced as "This is a newcomer". Usually it would be something along the lines of "This is Fred. He is new to our group". That is not hierarchical language. That is statement of fact and can lead to further conversation. "Wonderful! Welcome! How did you hear about us?"
I'm saying we need a new word that everyone can use to refer to a specific subset of people NOT a higher or lower level of person....just like all of the inclusive language that we are still learning within the bigger issues of human society. Native is a very vague word that lumps together 100s of cultures...but it's accepted as the acceptable term Queer was once a slur and now we use it freely and specifically (and myself as a badge of honor though it too is far more vague than my identifying words) Ginger is still widely seen as insulting though as a proud redhead it is my favorite identifier my protest to your protest is coming from the knowledge that language IS important.
I'm saying we don't need to split people into new and old members as a chatelaine
except that the job is to guide the newcomers...?
The job, in my opinion, is to help people find the activities they want to participate in, and I don't think it should be restricted to how long the person has been participating in the SCA. Yes, when I was chatelaine I was a contact person for folks who heard about us in the demos/Internet/word of mouth. But my role was to get them in touch with the practice or event or person that would best suit their interest. This also occasionally involved fielding questions from experienced members who wanted to participate in a different aspect of the SCA. Would I hand Sir John the Bold the "Newcomers Guide to A&S" , no, but he did enjoy "Intro to A&S" and being put in contact with the local MoAS. My job was not to spout the SCA monologue to each person I met. My job was to get to know each individual, find their interests, then direct them based on what they wanted to explore. I think I would have been less effective as a chatelaine if I was mentally categorizing them as a collective group of "newcomers"
In Meridies, we have a (fully optional) badge and favor we sometimes give out to newcomers to wear for as long as they feel comfortable doing so. When I came back after a break of a few years, I was given one by someone who didnt feel the need to wear it anymore, and once I felt comfortable again I passed it on to a new newcomer. It helped me be more confident in figuring out garb and camp stuff again, as well as helping me feel safe to ask “noob questions” that I either forgot or never actually knew the answers to. Also at some events we have households and drives that will sponsor/comp a person if it’s their first event.
Let newcomers request a guide who is a volunteer if they want one. The guide can show them around the event and introduce them to people. Make them understand etiquette and hospitality. Then turn the newcomer loose. Or set up a newcomers point and the tour starts from there.
Oh this is a good idea! And couple it with a sign at the door, I remember being totally overcome with nerves even waiting in line to get into my first event (never mind actually talking to people!). Something like “New here? Ask for sir-guides-a-lot at the gate for a tour” would have been great direction and reassurance for that first step.
Baroness Álfrún [also in Æthelmearc] has been starting conversations lately about how we can better serve and integrate newcomers. I haven't seen any ideas take root yet [but I might just not know about it], but you would probably do well to message her and get involved in those conversations. [Sorry I don't have any suggestions on the topic.]
I'm not down with labeling newcomers, simply because I have never seen it work. Too many variables and pitfalls within. It is not a new idea. It is an old idea that always falls apart in practice. (It's a bit superfluous anyway, at least in my local groups, we tend to know all the gold key garb by sight.) The thing that does work, that I have seen show success many times over the years, is to showcase inclusive, easy to join activities, that anyone can walk up to and be a part of right away, regardless of experience or skill. Thrown weapons in a good one. So is basic scribal stuff. So is (ugh) lucet cord making. A table with periodesque games, featuring a friendly face to teach/play against. A cheerful dance teacher. Some silly peasanty picnic activities. The sort of stuff that they can go home and say "I did x for the first time, I met some nice people, and it was really fun!" You don't need a label for any of that. You don't even need to be new.
I totally see that. I'm really just here to trouble shoot and glad to have had the cons pointed out to me. I tend to be a bit overzealous but happily take the criticism and try to figure out something that will work. idc if it's my idea, original, tried and true, an adaptation of a failed idea. I really don't care how I just want people who want to feel wanted to be able to get the best welcome and those who need to slowly blend in to not be overwhelmed and leave us. I do think that if I were to instigate some sort of badge for newcomers it would be a voluntary option for those who want more help or who want way less help. this isn't out of othering it's out of allowing people with opposite anxieties to both get what they need when they are new to this.
One thing that I think would really help in newcomers guides, is a kind of timeline for the pre-event stuff. Like, if you need to borrow garb and/or feasting kit, e-mail this person at least a week before the event. Or, the steps for booking are: fill in and submit booking form, receive payment instructions, pay in full before the event (or confirm payment plan details with booking officer). For "this person needs a friend", I think it's also to be aware which SCAdians attend events to hangout and vibe (opposed to people running and participating in activities). I know a few people who are friendly, knowledgeable, AND generally have free time. So I ask what newcomers are interested in or curious about, and try to match them up with someone at the event.
>There is a lot of overlap of the type of person who is so very into medieval history and nuero divergence so it comes up a lot. I'm going to disagree with this. Rather, there is a much higher than normal percentage of the population that is nuerodivergent within the SCA than outside of it or in pretty much any other group. I've been to other groups and events - particularly 18th Century- that have far, far more nuerotypical individuals. Rather, I think enough nuerodivergent individuals took over the SCA that it has become less about a focus on medieval and Renaissance history and more about recruiting additional nuerodivergent individuals. I know some will argue against that but seeing some of the newcomers and who tends to stay for more than an event or two, to me, it's pretty clear that is the case. It's also one of the reasons the SCA has such a recruitment problem. It can be exhausting for a neurotypical person to be around nuerodivergent individuals.
It can be exhausting having to constantly see you post inflammatory garbage.
I think it's important for our organization to be welcoming to everyone who is not a jerk. In my area, our focus is definitely on medieval and Renaissance stuff, and folks who are interested in that can join us. It's possible that your perception is based around some folks not feeling welcome in other organizations. I think OP is just trying to help new folks feel welcome, and I think that's a laudable goal.
I'm not arguing with the entirety of OP's post, just the one clause I highlighted. As far as welcoming everyone who is not a jerk, I urge you to do a search here on all the cliques and people running into problems with a knight/duke/duchess/ect.
Well, other groups kick people out for being weird and we mostly just kick people out for things where the police are involved. SCA events are also very chill. Are we focused on recruiting more neurodivergent people? Or do we just assume if someone is in the SCA they must be neurodivergent? It's sort of a bandwagon thing at this point. Everyone thinks they're on the autism spectrum, everyone has an anxiety disorder, everyone has attention deficit disorder. Almost nobody is completely straight with no caveats.
> Are we focused on recruiting more neurodivergent people? Or do we just assume if someone is in the SCA they must be neurodivergent? It's sort of a bandwagon thing at this point. Everyone thinks they're on the autism spectrum, everyone has an anxiety disorder, everyone has attention deficit disorder. Almost nobody is completely straight with no caveats. I don't disagree. What I do disagree with is interest in Medieval history =neurodivergent. If it was true, then every single person studying or who studied medieval and Renaissance history at a higher education institution would have an interest, if not be, in the SCA. Instead, most of the people in the SCA appear to have careers in engineering or in the military far more than archeologists. Not saying there aren't archeologists - just not in the higher concentrations that you would expect if Medieval history = neurodivergent as the OP claimed.
Not interest in medieval history so much as a willingness and desire to make kumihimo cords and do other obscure and tedious crafts. Where I am, we almost never talk about medieval history at events. Lot of crafts though.
> Not interest in medieval history so much as a willingness and desire to make kumihimo cords and do other obscure and tedious crafts. > > Where I am, we almost never talk about medieval history at events. Lot of crafts though. Which goes to my point! Thank you. The OP was the one that said: >There is a lot of overlap of the type of person who is so very into medieval history and nuero divergence so it comes up a lot. And that is what I'm disagreeing with.
Can we just be shy without being neurodivergent these days? I'm old enough to remember when you could just be shy. Need something to talk about? History. Better than pets or kids or even food. But now if you're shy and want to talk about history it must be a kind of neurodivergent habit. We're volunteers in the SCA, not special education teachers. I'd like to see us try harder to attract people who are smart. Instead we spend our energy accommodating the neurodivergent. And becoming a bottom tier LARP playing with string and bits of wire instead of a good educational organization doing meaningful work. But it's what people want right now. Badges to identify extroverts and newcomers. More kudos for "largesse" by the dozens than for classes. Quiet spaces at events that are already quiet enough to sleep through. Oh well. If everyone thinks they're neurodivergent then it's just democracy at work.
"I'd like to see us try harder to attract people who are smart." With such kind and eloquent members such as yourself, I'm surprised the SCA isn't the next Mensa. You're such a disappointment.
not specifically to you only but to all the replies as well. 1. Yeah the SCA is inclusive and it's wonderful. don't like it? you have choices.... leave and get over it, stay and grumble quietly, or create a movement in which you actively publicly advocate for not allowing any sort of accommodations for anyone's mental or physical health or any combination there of. ***your stance on this only matters as much as you are willing to act on it.*** Go for it truly. 2. How educational could the sca be if it were only experts?... it would be a bunch of history phds quibbling without a critical thought between them. the sca doesn't have any lack of experts what we have is a lack of students because of various real life barriers...one of which is social anxieties. which while for one person would cause them to be mildly bothered, uncomfortable, or annoyed but for another would cause heart palpitations and hyperventilation... 3. no nuerodivergence is not a bandwagon. Just like all things> with mainstream attention and acceptance we see it more because people are less afraid to hide it. it's the same with a million topics of individual needs. 4. I'd rather some person call themself autistic and get some extra help even when they don't need it than me not offer help in the first place. likely they just need to be seen and included and that sounds like a pretty good thing to provide to anyone who needs it.
I don't think anyone is arguing that there shouldn't be accessibility? I'm trying to figure out who you are arguing with. All I'm saying is that a interest in medieval history doesn't mean the person is neuro divergent. Also, that the SCA has a way higher percentage of neuro divergent individuals than other history/LARP/social clubs but it has nothing to do with Medieval history.
put badges on new commers? yeah that would be a target saying attack this "person". there are many more nasty attack dogs in the sca than there are helpful people
I've met many more helpful people than "nasty attack dogs" in the SCA. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that term. It may be that some areas have bigger issues with this than others. In some places, an indicator might help helpful people keep an eye out for new folks and try to shield them from problematic folks. I do think the new folks should have a choice to not wear anything that singles them out, if they don't want to be approached or have any concerns about it.
This person has a serious grudge against the SCA and takes every opportunity to complain about the organization...they regularly call us cultists and pedophiles. Ignore them. (By saying this, I have certainly made myself a target of their wrath and will not respond to this thread.)
There are too many ways a newcomer badge makes someone a target and not enough people to protect newcomers from people who say, "That's just how we do things in the SCA." Like the cloven fruit thing. We have no rights, we have very little recourse when someone does something wrong. They are incentivized to cover it up. It's a Victorian novel, not English Common law. It's Sicily in the 1950s, not Ancient Rome.