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I did, but only since I’ve had to work with the [Rankine units](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale). If you work in engineering in the US you will get exposed to every type of stupid unit.
Even if it was today, you’d still be dealing with it for the next 100 years due to legacy designs and equipment. You just get used to it. At least it makes you more paranoid at error checking and doing common sense checks.
In machining, we would refer to that as a "thousandth" of an inch 0.001"
Bearing specs are typically finer yet. 0.0001" would be called "tenth of a thousandth"
Seriously, Fahrenheit is good for colloquial use. 100 is hot. 0 is cold. And it's easy to judge what clothing to wear based on the tens place.
But Celsius and Kelvin should always be used for science and any temputure that doesn't naturally occur on earth. I have zero frame of reference for -270F nor 800F and I grew up only using Fahrenheit.
Agreed and if it's a low temperature approximating to zero Kelvin it should be expressed in Kelvin because the interesting thing is not roughly how warm it is or how cold it is it's how close to absolute zero it is.
Yeah. When I see -459.67, my brain immediately thinks that -459.7 really isn't that far off when in reality it is impossible.
All non-negative numbers is a much better and easier to understand co-domain.
>100 is hot. 0 is cold. And it's easy to judge what clothing to wear based on the tens place.
It's what you're used to. For me, 0C is cold, risk of ice, should probably wear a coat. 10C wear a light jacket or sweater, 20C is t-shirt and shorts, 30C is AC weather. I know 70F is comfortable and 80+ is getting hot, but 40F? 50F? I'm guessing jacket weather, but it's not intuitive.
Ofc, as a Canadian, temperature-based attire can also be very seasonally dependent. 10C in Jul is very different from 10C in Jan. You will definitely see some folks in tees and shorts at 10C in the winter, especially if it's sunny.
Zero is cold??? It's not just 'cold', it's fearsome. Celsius, on the other hand, is really simple - "Below zero? The ground's slippy. Above zero? I can walk without fear."
0F isn’t “fearsome” if you’re from the north. It’s definitely pretty damn cold, yeah, but I’ve had to walk to work in temperatures worse than that, or dig my car out of the snow.
As long as you’re not in it for extended extended periods of time, and you have sufficient clothing, you’ll be fine. Uncomfortable but fine
- 270 = total cold
800c = flammable materials burn, steel glow bright red.
Temperature not high enough for forging.
Temperature not high enough for ceramic kilns.
You make a great point! Fahrenheit is indeed more intuitive for everyday use, especially when it comes to temperature extremes. However, for scientific purposes and extreme temperatures, Celsius and Kelvin provide a more standardized and universally understood scale. It's all about using the right tool for the job!
In this context, its not just an American cultural custom, its downright science illiteracy. Since the temperature was five nanokelvin, this representation isn't just inconvenient, it completely undoes the actual significance of the quantity.
I get the aspect that this is really close to absolute zero. Can someone explain a little bit about what has happened with the particles and what they are hoping to start studying in laymen's terms.
From ChatGPT explain like I am five, so needs a sense check from an adult as IDK how much of this is hallucinated:
Imagine you have a toy car that you keep trying to make stop completely. No matter how slowly it moves, you find that there's always a tiny bit of movement left. Even if you push it very, very gently, it never stops perfectly.
Absolute zero is like trying to make the car stop completely. Scientists have tried very hard, but they find that they can only get very close, not all the way there. There are a few reasons for this:
1. **Tiny movements**: Just like the car, the tiny molecules in things always have a little bit of movement left, no matter how cold you make them.
2. **Energy**: To make things colder, you need to take away their energy. But at absolute zero, you'd need to take away every tiny bit of energy, and that's just not possible because there's always a tiny bit left.
So, we can get really, really close to absolute zero, but we can't get all the way there. It's like trying to stop that toy car perfectly—it always has a little wiggle left.
Achieving such low temperatures in the lab opens up exciting possibilities for exploring quantum phenomena and materials. The potential for studying unique formations like dipolar droplets and spin liquids could revolutionize our understanding of quantum mechanics and lead to breakthroughs in various fields, from physics to materials science.
From the [article](https://interestingengineering.com/science/coldest-lab-rare-quantum-state): Researchers at Columbia University were able to create a rare quantum state of matter called a Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) out of molecules.
The group under the direction of physicist Sebastian Will made use of its expertise in raising atom and molecular temperatures to very slight variations from absolute zero.
Their BEC is composed of sodium-cesium molecules, which are stable for an astonishingly lengthy two seconds when cooled to just five nanoKelvin, or roughly -459.66 °F.
According to researchers, the research paves the way for studying special types of quantum materials in new ways, potentially leading to the development of unique formations like dipolar droplets, crystal phases that organize themselves, and spin liquids in controlled environments.
The idea of BEC goes back a century, when physicists Bose and Einstein predicted that super-chilled particles would coalesce into a single entity, following the rules of quantum mechanics.
Their BECs were first created in 1995, with a Nobel Prize following in 2001. These predominantly atom-based BECs led to major advances in both the fundamental understanding of quantum phenomena and also in the development of technologies.
Since then, scientists have been looking for ways to create more complex BECs, particularly with the use of molecules that exhibit complex interactions. In 2008, Deborah Jin and Jun Ye, physicists at JILA in Boulder, Colorado, cooled potassium-rubidium molecules, and molecular research progressed one more step.
In 2023, Will’s lab was able to cool a gas of sodium-cesium molecules to ultracold temperatures using lasers and magnetic manipulation. This achievement opens up the study of the quantum properties and applications of these molecules in much greater detail.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
You use the laser to target an area where the most energetic part of your substance is more likely to be. That accelerates it and removes it from the system, leaving the substance less energetic on average. It's a cool idea that sounds completely infeasible when you first hear about using lasers to cool things. Not a stupid question at all.
I tried to come up with an analogy that remotely explai s doppler cooling, but I can't, so I won't. What's important to understand is that the lasers, by being very specifically tuned, make it so that the atoms are essentially transferring their vibrational energy into the energy required to absorb the laser light and then release a photon from that absorption. In short, the laser is causing the atoms to emit light *at the cost of their movement*. Since temperature is a function of movement, this means the atoms have less average movement, i.e. lower temperature.
I'm not sure what this team is doing specifically, though it seems like BananaResearcher has a better grasp of it. But the usual analogy is that of a cup of coffee that you cool by blowing away the steam. Or you could say that you have a collection of bouncing balls, and swinging a baseball bat as hard as you can, you hit the highest bouncing balls leaving only the lower ones left.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/chrisdh79 Permalink: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07492-z --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
6 nK for more sensible units.
Okay this is the US. we don't do sensible units. Seriously does anyone in the world recognize zero Kelvin in Fahrenheit?
I did, but only since I’ve had to work with the [Rankine units](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale). If you work in engineering in the US you will get exposed to every type of stupid unit.
Thermodynamics in US units should be illegal.
Even if it was today, you’d still be dealing with it for the next 100 years due to legacy designs and equipment. You just get used to it. At least it makes you more paranoid at error checking and doing common sense checks.
"How many slinches per slug" - excerpt from real US engineering conversation
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
In machining, we would refer to that as a "thousandth" of an inch 0.001" Bearing specs are typically finer yet. 0.0001" would be called "tenth of a thousandth"
Need big numbers for shock value. Unga-bunga
... but they used it to get a smaller number. Converting or K or C results in the bigger number.
Big in absolute value terms.
Seriously, Fahrenheit is good for colloquial use. 100 is hot. 0 is cold. And it's easy to judge what clothing to wear based on the tens place. But Celsius and Kelvin should always be used for science and any temputure that doesn't naturally occur on earth. I have zero frame of reference for -270F nor 800F and I grew up only using Fahrenheit.
Agreed and if it's a low temperature approximating to zero Kelvin it should be expressed in Kelvin because the interesting thing is not roughly how warm it is or how cold it is it's how close to absolute zero it is.
Yeah. When I see -459.67, my brain immediately thinks that -459.7 really isn't that far off when in reality it is impossible. All non-negative numbers is a much better and easier to understand co-domain.
>100 is hot. 0 is cold. And it's easy to judge what clothing to wear based on the tens place. It's what you're used to. For me, 0C is cold, risk of ice, should probably wear a coat. 10C wear a light jacket or sweater, 20C is t-shirt and shorts, 30C is AC weather. I know 70F is comfortable and 80+ is getting hot, but 40F? 50F? I'm guessing jacket weather, but it's not intuitive. Ofc, as a Canadian, temperature-based attire can also be very seasonally dependent. 10C in Jul is very different from 10C in Jan. You will definitely see some folks in tees and shorts at 10C in the winter, especially if it's sunny.
Zero is cold??? It's not just 'cold', it's fearsome. Celsius, on the other hand, is really simple - "Below zero? The ground's slippy. Above zero? I can walk without fear."
0F isn’t “fearsome” if you’re from the north. It’s definitely pretty damn cold, yeah, but I’ve had to walk to work in temperatures worse than that, or dig my car out of the snow. As long as you’re not in it for extended extended periods of time, and you have sufficient clothing, you’ll be fine. Uncomfortable but fine
Yes, it's different in Scotland. We're generally not much below freezing but it's a _very_ wet climate, so it feels much colder than it really is.
I live surrounded by several massive lakes, it is pretty wet here
"Wet" = "humid _climate"._
Go stroll through a war zone at 20C.
Makes no sense. 32 is cold 100 is not that hot. The entire F scale is plain stupid
In defense of Fahrenheit, do you really have any *better* "frame of reference" for -270C or 800C?
No but -270c is 3.15 kelvins which gives you a decent frame of refrence of how insanely cold it is.
- 270 = total cold 800c = flammable materials burn, steel glow bright red. Temperature not high enough for forging. Temperature not high enough for ceramic kilns.
Pizza ovens I've worked with have been close to 700f
You make a great point! Fahrenheit is indeed more intuitive for everyday use, especially when it comes to temperature extremes. However, for scientific purposes and extreme temperatures, Celsius and Kelvin provide a more standardized and universally understood scale. It's all about using the right tool for the job!
it is more "intuitive" only because you are used to it... Since I've always used Celsius I find it perfectly intuitive.
I'm pretty sure it's ChatGPT, look at the account's recent comments.
Especially with that "you make a great point!" Beginning
Every scientist I worked with in America used Celsius
Thank you for your service
Sharing scientific news in fahrenheit is ridiculous
In this context, its not just an American cultural custom, its downright science illiteracy. Since the temperature was five nanokelvin, this representation isn't just inconvenient, it completely undoes the actual significance of the quantity.
There is no American custom of expressing near absolute zero temps in Fahrenheit.
I’m glad I’m not the only one bugged by this…Fahrenheit is downright confusing for anything outside weather or body temp.
I'll extend it's usability to cooking food, but that's the absolute limit.
Why are we talking about absolute zero in Fahrenheit? What kind of maniac wrote this title?
Why the hell would anyone use Fahrenheit on r/science for anything, let alone absolute zero?
I get the aspect that this is really close to absolute zero. Can someone explain a little bit about what has happened with the particles and what they are hoping to start studying in laymen's terms.
And what happens at absolute zero or what we are hoping to see?
It's impossible to achieve absolute zero
From ChatGPT explain like I am five, so needs a sense check from an adult as IDK how much of this is hallucinated: Imagine you have a toy car that you keep trying to make stop completely. No matter how slowly it moves, you find that there's always a tiny bit of movement left. Even if you push it very, very gently, it never stops perfectly. Absolute zero is like trying to make the car stop completely. Scientists have tried very hard, but they find that they can only get very close, not all the way there. There are a few reasons for this: 1. **Tiny movements**: Just like the car, the tiny molecules in things always have a little bit of movement left, no matter how cold you make them. 2. **Energy**: To make things colder, you need to take away their energy. But at absolute zero, you'd need to take away every tiny bit of energy, and that's just not possible because there's always a tiny bit left. So, we can get really, really close to absolute zero, but we can't get all the way there. It's like trying to stop that toy car perfectly—it always has a little wiggle left.
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Achieving such low temperatures in the lab opens up exciting possibilities for exploring quantum phenomena and materials. The potential for studying unique formations like dipolar droplets and spin liquids could revolutionize our understanding of quantum mechanics and lead to breakthroughs in various fields, from physics to materials science.
So we are 0,04 celsius from absolute zero did i get this right?
If I've got this right, the study says 5 nanoKelvin, so that would mean 0,000000005 degrees from absolute zero.
Thas just bonkers to me, thx dude much better to flex with your numbers.
Yeah, I actually had no idea we were that close
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That's amazing! I understood absolutely none of that.
From the [article](https://interestingengineering.com/science/coldest-lab-rare-quantum-state): Researchers at Columbia University were able to create a rare quantum state of matter called a Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) out of molecules. The group under the direction of physicist Sebastian Will made use of its expertise in raising atom and molecular temperatures to very slight variations from absolute zero. Their BEC is composed of sodium-cesium molecules, which are stable for an astonishingly lengthy two seconds when cooled to just five nanoKelvin, or roughly -459.66 °F. According to researchers, the research paves the way for studying special types of quantum materials in new ways, potentially leading to the development of unique formations like dipolar droplets, crystal phases that organize themselves, and spin liquids in controlled environments. The idea of BEC goes back a century, when physicists Bose and Einstein predicted that super-chilled particles would coalesce into a single entity, following the rules of quantum mechanics. Their BECs were first created in 1995, with a Nobel Prize following in 2001. These predominantly atom-based BECs led to major advances in both the fundamental understanding of quantum phenomena and also in the development of technologies. Since then, scientists have been looking for ways to create more complex BECs, particularly with the use of molecules that exhibit complex interactions. In 2008, Deborah Jin and Jun Ye, physicists at JILA in Boulder, Colorado, cooled potassium-rubidium molecules, and molecular research progressed one more step. In 2023, Will’s lab was able to cool a gas of sodium-cesium molecules to ultracold temperatures using lasers and magnetic manipulation. This achievement opens up the study of the quantum properties and applications of these molecules in much greater detail.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
You use the laser to target an area where the most energetic part of your substance is more likely to be. That accelerates it and removes it from the system, leaving the substance less energetic on average. It's a cool idea that sounds completely infeasible when you first hear about using lasers to cool things. Not a stupid question at all.
So, if photons are like billiard balls they’re essentially knocking energetic atoms out of the system?
I tried to come up with an analogy that remotely explai s doppler cooling, but I can't, so I won't. What's important to understand is that the lasers, by being very specifically tuned, make it so that the atoms are essentially transferring their vibrational energy into the energy required to absorb the laser light and then release a photon from that absorption. In short, the laser is causing the atoms to emit light *at the cost of their movement*. Since temperature is a function of movement, this means the atoms have less average movement, i.e. lower temperature.
how fast do they reach these microkelvin temperatures? sounds like it would take a long time
I'm not sure what this team is doing specifically, though it seems like BananaResearcher has a better grasp of it. But the usual analogy is that of a cup of coffee that you cool by blowing away the steam. Or you could say that you have a collection of bouncing balls, and swinging a baseball bat as hard as you can, you hit the highest bouncing balls leaving only the lower ones left.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
This research is so cool
Hmm still not quite close enough to finally sleep comfortably