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I am currently enrolled in a study that gives a monthly allowance and more if you do some simple surveys; and even I don't understand how I came across it. Probably should've brushed it off as a scam.
...but it's just enough to treat yourself to dinner, not $10,000 :c
For 99% of the world population money can definitely buy happiness. Yes there will still be death, and illness, and drama but that won’t be piled on top of food and income insecurity, work and survival stress, treatable but unaffordable health issues, and increased exposure to environmental toxins, crime, violence and all the other problems that accompany poverty or life as a disposable corporate drone.
I think theres something to be said of the Happiness vs Less Stress ratio here. Maybe more accurately money buys Relief and Security, which are better breeding grounds for happiness.
There are some theories circulating in post modern therapies about how much of mental illness is actually just under resourced and overworked society. Give people their basic needs and see how many mental illnesses magically go away. Anxiety being one that so many clients deal with at the end of every month.
Kind of like those mice that were given all the drugs they wanted, but if they were well fed and socialised they weren't really interested in the quick dopamine hit from them.
I buy this. I had a ton of mental illness issues when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Depressed, anxious, and eventually addicted to opiates.
Now I have a job that I love, a wife, and my bills are more than paid. Funny how I don't feel depressed or anxious anymore. And when I very occasionally do, it's always backed by a more persistent sense of contentedness and the knowledge that it will be okay after this short rough patch.
"Money buys you relief from things that make you unhappy"
$10k is an arbitrary number. Anything under "so much wealth you can't spend it all" means you have some constraints around money. Maybe you have a family income of 400k. Maybe 10k isn't going to significantly ease your financial stress, but 100k would. 500k would.
"Mo money, mo problems" is more a problem with changing your lifestyle to be far more expensive, plus being recognized as a wealthy person, which comes with an added pressure from people wanting to use you.
Even more basic, individuals compete for resources more resources mean more stable conditions mean safer space to procreate. The problem I'm seeing is the lack of people who want to procreate it usually means an unstable environment and can be a precursor to ecosystem collapse. Economy is just a fancy way of saying ecosystem if you think about it.
absolutely.
If you have to worry every month if you can make ends meet, you are far to stresed to enjoy the actual good things that still happen.
If you are at a palce, that you know, taht even at worst, you know that you are able to bay the bills and not starve, it just takes so much burden of your shoulders.
I've been there, and probably many many others here, and so many people say, that I jstu seem happer and healthier since I got out of that spot.
I think there's maslow's triangle? If you meet the basics that money can provide, happiness can be built on top. After a certain threshold though, money seems to be a burden.
Maslow's Hierarchy is a pyramid. The big things - food, security etc. are at the bottom. Once those are satisfied, it's the next level - dependable job, friends; then satisfaction with life, happiness, able to fulfill your less physical desires; and so on. Being rich just jumps you a few steps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
The problem in these discussions is that most people consider themselves to be in the "middle class", even the 1%. There's definitely a certain point where more money doesn't buy more security, so for the people with comfortable incomes, that think themselves to be totally average, they would tend to say "meh, money doesn't really buy happiness, just more stuff". For people struggling day to day with money, it's a clear "YES". There's always someone richer than you, so it can often warp the perception of your own wealth and security level.
Money for me, when I made a lot, was a problem solver. I could imagine like oh I’m sick I have money for the best care procedures, I want a hot bod I can pay for a personal trainer, affording a therapist, better school for kids, etc
I was miserable until I got my finances under control. Mentally and physically exhausted. Now I've got savings, investments, can spend freely, and I'm very happy.
Yeah I let myself go financially in my 20s and just hit 30 and now tackling it... I am so dumb but thank goodness it happened when I was young and still young enough to fix it. Just have to grind these months of OT and I hope to be where you are next year time. Grats on the success brotha.
I get diminishing returns but this may need context. I make over that and if I was single more may not mean much. But I support a wife and three kids on my income. More would certainly be welcome.
I am single and make around that much, and I'd still be absolutely thrilled by $10k. Not as much as someone who makes less I'm sure, but still very happy. I mean, that would be almost 2x the largest bonus I've ever gotten at work. And I'd probably spend part of it on a vacation, which would also make me very happy.
Yeah, what you're speaking to is kind of a key point.
For households under that income, $10,000 goes a long way into reducing primary financial stress givers (rent, utilities, food, school care, maintenance, misc. bills).
For households over that income, $10,000 is luxury spending (technology, hobbies, vacations, upgrades, etc).
Removing underlying financial stress has *significantly* better effects on peoples happiness than luxury spending.
Basically the difference between taking away underlying stress taking away from potential happiness, versus providing short lived happiness.
I wonder if it’s also that financial strain scales with income. Either you make that and are already comfortable, in which case your point is valid. Or you make that or more but your debt and lifestyle is scaled to the income so while $10k is nice it doesn’t go far enough to actually make you noticeably happy.
It does. But not linearly.
With enough income the choice becomes "should I eat luxury food or normal food?", within a lower income the choice can become "should I eat food, or not eat food?"
So while your cost of living does scale. The stress doesn't necessarily scale in the same way.
What this research kind of highlights is that the threshold mentioned in the title is about the threshold where that switch occurs across all of a normal persons spending even as their cost of living increases.
What's really noticeable, is that this research is done fairly regularly as an economic health assessment. And pre-pandemic that number was ~$80,000. So its jumped about $30,000 in a handful of years.
That last point hits home so hard. An income bump for me in 2018, from a lifetime average of about $50,000 to about $80k, was life changing. Wife’s income remained about the same at $50k for her. We remained there through 2021. “Comfortable” was attained.
With the inflation of ‘21 and ‘22, I felt I needed to, no choice but, to take a much less fulfilling position at a dumpster fire company, for $105k. Wife’s income jumped to $70k, taking on more responsibility.
And we are both much less satisfied with life in general. Much more of a feeling of emptiness and over-worked. But, $100k is now 2019’s $75k. That’s literally what it takes now. But, oh, the cost on your mental well
Being.
I don't see how that's possible.
High income with high debt carries its own kind of stress, but you'd still have equity, probably a 401k, a high paying job, and the skills to get another one if you lose it. Your car might get repossessed, or your student loan might go into default, but you can always file bankruptcy and be okay.
That's not the same kind of stress you have when you worry that you'll be homeless if you lose your job, or you wonder if you might have to go to the food bank this month, or your kid only wants one thing for Christmas, and it's something you could never afford. That's a never-ending, deep in your bones kind of stress.
For real. Luxury spending typically buys around 2 weeks of elevated mood. Essential spending buys security, relief, peace. Those can be huge changes that are potentially perpetual.
Yeah, it’s no wonder that people who make less would be happier receiving $10k. All a matter of perspective for sure. Receiving $10k would literally change my entire life right now, as ridiculous as that may sound.
That doesn't sound ridiculous, it's the truth for about two thirds of America. ~63% of people on America are living in paycheck-to-paycheck households.
As someone who makes under 100k with a wife and 3 kids...we recently had a chance to come into just under 10k. I do side work occasionally and got into 3 super easy jobs that paid out. I'm the bread winner as it saves way more money for her to run to school and watch our toddler. We paid for a vacation for next year, caught up with some bills, paid a car off and saved some for a baller ass Christmas for the kids. There will be a small amount tossed into the savings account but the weight off of our shoulders for a few days was absolutely fantastic. We've been able to breathe and relax a little. We still budgeted the hell out of the next few months but knowing we caught up and can relax for a minute is wonderful.
I totally get that. I'm in a better space financially now, but I remember how easily things piled up, and it made me feel like I was barely treading water. Being able to catch up on some bills was amazing. It really did feel like catching your breath.
You make a pretty good point here. If (as the old adage goes) 'Money can't buy happiness' is being researched, why not investigate the other side of the coin: Does losing one's bankroll and home and car bring up emotions opposite of happiness? I'd suggest that even without research that at least for the short term, that would be a resounding 'yes'.
Hey, thanks for the comment my friend :)
It's not that money has no meaning when you're making that much. It's just that $10k doesn't move any needles appreciably. Pay down some debt early, you're not behind on bills, you're good. Taking that $10k away can cause stress though, most people in that income range don't have that much just sitting around. $10k adds some more security to an already relatively secure situation. When you're making less though you get a major stress drop because you're no longer behind on bills, etc. It creates that base level of security that higher incomes have (generally).
It has considerably less meaning imho.
When you are absolutely rock bottom broke for a prolonged period, every £10 note (UK here, sorry - convert to your local currency if preferred) is precious and a hell of a lot of thought and planning can go on making sure it is spent to maximise the possible value gained from spending it.
A penny jar can be a godsend on a day where there is literally no food to offer your loved ones and when you have gone without eating for a day or more yourself already.
Finding a £5 note in a long unused jacket pocket feels like winning the lottery, and a 5p coin on the pavement is worth routinely picking up and briefly feels like a win.
Getting £10k in a lump some for whatever reason is a life changing moment when you’re in that position. It might as well be £1million because the feeling is basically the same.
Now I appreciate this is all basically just what you describe as moving a needle, but it’s the emotional response I’m trying to get across here - and that’s what I see as *”valuing”* money.
Inversely, living on a stable income of 100-150k/yr will obviously provide a middle class lifestyle with some savings in the bank. Not worrying about money means that a sum of £10k is just yet more money. It doesn’t move any needles significantly as you say, but it equally won’t make you *feel* very much.
For this person, a loaf of bread being £1.20 or £3.40 will mean very little. A 15% rise in weekly food shopping can go unnoticed. And the £5 in the jacket will stay there because it won’t ever be searched.
Exactly this. I have been on both ends of this spectrum. Fortunately on the good end now. A couple of years ago we got 20000 from something that we weren't expecting. Don't get me wrong it was great to get it, but we kinda just said that's great! Then we shifted some more to savings, lowered debt like student loans etc. But it didn't change our lives in a noticable way at all.
If I had gotten it when I was younger and poor as hell it would have changed my life in significant ways. It's expensive to be poor. Always worrying about a running car, overdraft fees, fast food because no time to cook between 2 jobs, no or garbage health insurance and all kinds of other things.
I know it's not your point exactly, but there's no way that $10k has no meaning to a family who makes $125k.
Edit: I appreciate everyone's responses. The person I responded to was talking about taking $10k away from people at that income level. I'm not trying to refute the study. Just saying that taking away the equivalent of one month's income from a family at that income level would not be meaningless. It is a different situation from the study.
I think it's more that if you just gave me $10k, I don't really know what I would do with it. My immediate needs are taken care of. It's not going to enable me to change my lifestyle. So I would probably just invest it?
But if you told me you would reimburse me $10k to spend on anything I wanted, it would be amazing. Basically top of the line new gear in all of my hobbies. But I don't feel comfortable just spending $10k like that
Ya, the saying "Money can't buy happiness" leaves a hell of a lot out. Having been at a point in our lives where my wife and I were deciding between bills or groceries, I can say that now being in that "over 123k" group makes life _way_ easier.
Stress over buying food is just gone. I go to the store and buy the items on my list. I do look at the total when checking out; but, I'm not keeping a running total in my head while shopping. If something catches my eye, I buy it.
That said, I'd be quite happy if someone handed me 10k. I suspect it's mentioned in the study, if I could be arsed to read it. But, the number of people living on that income likely matters. As a family of 4, our costs are a bit higher.
Surely this needs a COL and lifestyle adjustment. 2 kids in a major city and this is practically paycheck to paycheck. Out in the countryside this is buy a new toy every year money.
Why is it the most important part? It just means the amount they received didn’t have a lot of effect because their baseline is higher. Maybe if they received 10x or 100x it would have an effect?
Maybe but then I remember there are studies that show incomes above 85k showed little improvements in overall happiness. Idk what that would be in todays money but there’s definitely something to money buying happiness only up to a certain point.
EDIT: Wow, I just realised this is actually refuting that study I was referencing. So clearly there isn't a clean consensus on the matter. https://www.nysscpa.org/news/publications/nextgen/nextgen-article/study-finds-strong-relation-between-income-and-happiness-does-not-max-out-at-75k
I used to make $98k a year. If you gave me $10k back then I doubt it would have affected my happiness much. I make around $35k today and if you gave me $10k I’d be extremely happy.
I was laid off when the company I worked for was sold. Best job I was able to get only pays 35k. Been looking for something better for a while now but so far no luck.
It's more like relives stress of finance. I'm lucky enough to be in this kind of position and I can tell you money won't buy you happiness, but it sure as hell can buy you freedom from stress.
Wouldn't this depend on the year the study was released as well to take into account cost of living, inflation, etc.? It seems as though prior studies like the 75k a year happiness one was done in 2010 for example. Curious on if people's geographies (tied to cost of living) and family sizes were also factored in - haven't delved into these studies yet but seems as if it would vary a lot.
I make close to $100,000 a year and so does my domestic partner but we'd still be happier with $10,000 extra dollars. Like that's still meaningful to me. Maybe it's because we haven't been making $100,000 for long and townhomes that share walls and are next to our apartment just sold for $1,200,000 this year. Definitely seems location dependent.
They already **have** the benefit of having money. Adding money to a situation with surplus money doesn’t increase happiness.
Adding money to a situation where things are having to be sacrificed constantly, and juggling who to pay this month is necessary because it’s not possible to pay all bills each time, **that** situation will be improved.
Seems obvious to me.
Also you need to add enough money to eliminate something. Eliminate someone’s mortgage and you’ll get a much bigger effect than the ability to pay off 5% of it.
It’s really about eliminating insecurities as those makes us unhappy.
They didn't turn it down, they still took the money.
It's just taking the money didn't end up making them any happier. Because anything they actually needed they already had.
I'm sure they wanted the money just as much as you do.
But you just want it out of habit.
It absolutely is. Someone worried about how they’re going to pay the rent this month and cutting back on food vs someone who can make rent and but just barely able to afford the food they usually get in a month is a big difference on such a small scale.
I could've told you this. I went from a single person household making 36K a year to 54k a year and although I've only received one paycheck under the new pay and I already have a sunnier disposition.
I can afford rent, bills, AND food? Yes, please!
Yeah absolutely. I noticed a considerable difference in my mental health when I start earning more money. I grew up pretty poor (big family from an underdeveloped town - basically a social welfare town in Ireland) and now I've got my own house in a lovely neighbourhood, a nice car, a dog I can spoil and pay my bills and still have enough afterwards to treat myself - yeah I'm much Much happier now. A few years ago I was working full time and literally had to survive on noodles and bread, just so I could afford to bring my aging dog for arthritis treatment in the vets. I don't regret a second of that decision, would do it all over again for my current pup, but I remember how down I felt. I remember how sad I felt that I couldn't do more for her. I put what measley savings I could scrape together to get her an orthopedic bed an all. But now I can afford to bring this little dude to the vet, without asking to borrow money from loved ones.
It can't buy happiness but it removes a lot of stress and possibly gains youfree time, which gives you a hell of an advantage when trying to increase your happiness.
Actually, *More money than usual buys happiness* should be the title. I don’t think richer people are happier, I don’t have data to support this though. Also I believe the happiness level goes back to pre-transfer levels pretty fast.
I’ve always heard *money can’t prevent sadness* as a better replacement to the original.
As in, it doesn’t matter how wealthy you are, you’ll still know what death in the family or other unhappy experiences feel like.
I would stray to guess it isn't the money so much that made them happy it's the stress causing circumstances that the money reduced that allowed them to do things that made them happy.
Not having to worry about bills and having time to live are the things that make everyone happy.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How does one enroll in this study?
I would like to know too…
I am currently enrolled in a study that gives a monthly allowance and more if you do some simple surveys; and even I don't understand how I came across it. Probably should've brushed it off as a scam. ...but it's just enough to treat yourself to dinner, not $10,000 :c
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Congratulations you've made it into our study! We needed a control group!
When I complete enough YouGov surveys to get £50 it makes me happy. I like getting money.
Prolific.ac is the best site for surveys, and it's usually real scientific research, not opinion polls.
I can enroll you. You have been randomly selected to not receive the deposit. On a scale of 1 to 5 how would you rate your happiness?
Not getting money decreases happiness
No wonder I am out of both.
Imagine you enrolled, but how would you know you aren't getting a placebo?
You can recognize a Monopoly's bill
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For 99% of the world population money can definitely buy happiness. Yes there will still be death, and illness, and drama but that won’t be piled on top of food and income insecurity, work and survival stress, treatable but unaffordable health issues, and increased exposure to environmental toxins, crime, violence and all the other problems that accompany poverty or life as a disposable corporate drone.
I think theres something to be said of the Happiness vs Less Stress ratio here. Maybe more accurately money buys Relief and Security, which are better breeding grounds for happiness.
"Money buys you the opportunity to be happy"
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Money can make almost all of your problems go away.
There are some theories circulating in post modern therapies about how much of mental illness is actually just under resourced and overworked society. Give people their basic needs and see how many mental illnesses magically go away. Anxiety being one that so many clients deal with at the end of every month.
Kind of like those mice that were given all the drugs they wanted, but if they were well fed and socialised they weren't really interested in the quick dopamine hit from them.
I buy this. I had a ton of mental illness issues when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Depressed, anxious, and eventually addicted to opiates. Now I have a job that I love, a wife, and my bills are more than paid. Funny how I don't feel depressed or anxious anymore. And when I very occasionally do, it's always backed by a more persistent sense of contentedness and the knowledge that it will be okay after this short rough patch.
that would line up with the recent increase in mental illness matching the shrinking middle class
"Money buys you relief from things that make you unhappy" $10k is an arbitrary number. Anything under "so much wealth you can't spend it all" means you have some constraints around money. Maybe you have a family income of 400k. Maybe 10k isn't going to significantly ease your financial stress, but 100k would. 500k would. "Mo money, mo problems" is more a problem with changing your lifestyle to be far more expensive, plus being recognized as a wealthy person, which comes with an added pressure from people wanting to use you.
This is called Maslows hierarchy of needs. I'm pretty sure humanity has had this exact conversation 5 million times now already. 5,000,001 now.
Even more basic, individuals compete for resources more resources mean more stable conditions mean safer space to procreate. The problem I'm seeing is the lack of people who want to procreate it usually means an unstable environment and can be a precursor to ecosystem collapse. Economy is just a fancy way of saying ecosystem if you think about it.
absolutely. If you have to worry every month if you can make ends meet, you are far to stresed to enjoy the actual good things that still happen. If you are at a palce, that you know, taht even at worst, you know that you are able to bay the bills and not starve, it just takes so much burden of your shoulders. I've been there, and probably many many others here, and so many people say, that I jstu seem happer and healthier since I got out of that spot.
I think there's maslow's triangle? If you meet the basics that money can provide, happiness can be built on top. After a certain threshold though, money seems to be a burden.
Maslow's Hierarchy is a pyramid. The big things - food, security etc. are at the bottom. Once those are satisfied, it's the next level - dependable job, friends; then satisfaction with life, happiness, able to fulfill your less physical desires; and so on. Being rich just jumps you a few steps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
The problem in these discussions is that most people consider themselves to be in the "middle class", even the 1%. There's definitely a certain point where more money doesn't buy more security, so for the people with comfortable incomes, that think themselves to be totally average, they would tend to say "meh, money doesn't really buy happiness, just more stuff". For people struggling day to day with money, it's a clear "YES". There's always someone richer than you, so it can often warp the perception of your own wealth and security level.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but it buys the prerequisites.
Money for me, when I made a lot, was a problem solver. I could imagine like oh I’m sick I have money for the best care procedures, I want a hot bod I can pay for a personal trainer, affording a therapist, better school for kids, etc
Yes. Because shockingly, the majority of a modern human’s stress comes from money and the lack thereof.
I was miserable until I got my finances under control. Mentally and physically exhausted. Now I've got savings, investments, can spend freely, and I'm very happy.
Yeah I let myself go financially in my 20s and just hit 30 and now tackling it... I am so dumb but thank goodness it happened when I was young and still young enough to fix it. Just have to grind these months of OT and I hope to be where you are next year time. Grats on the success brotha.
When we got my wife’s Law school bills paid off it was like a weight was lifted.
What steps did you take to do so? In a difficult financial situation myself so would appreciate any tips!
For 90% of people who get out of financial stress, the answer is raise your income.
The important part: >However, people with household incomes above $123,000 did not report noticeable improvements in their happiness.
I get diminishing returns but this may need context. I make over that and if I was single more may not mean much. But I support a wife and three kids on my income. More would certainly be welcome.
I am single and make around that much, and I'd still be absolutely thrilled by $10k. Not as much as someone who makes less I'm sure, but still very happy. I mean, that would be almost 2x the largest bonus I've ever gotten at work. And I'd probably spend part of it on a vacation, which would also make me very happy.
Yeah, what you're speaking to is kind of a key point. For households under that income, $10,000 goes a long way into reducing primary financial stress givers (rent, utilities, food, school care, maintenance, misc. bills). For households over that income, $10,000 is luxury spending (technology, hobbies, vacations, upgrades, etc). Removing underlying financial stress has *significantly* better effects on peoples happiness than luxury spending. Basically the difference between taking away underlying stress taking away from potential happiness, versus providing short lived happiness.
I wonder if it’s also that financial strain scales with income. Either you make that and are already comfortable, in which case your point is valid. Or you make that or more but your debt and lifestyle is scaled to the income so while $10k is nice it doesn’t go far enough to actually make you noticeably happy.
It does. But not linearly. With enough income the choice becomes "should I eat luxury food or normal food?", within a lower income the choice can become "should I eat food, or not eat food?" So while your cost of living does scale. The stress doesn't necessarily scale in the same way. What this research kind of highlights is that the threshold mentioned in the title is about the threshold where that switch occurs across all of a normal persons spending even as their cost of living increases. What's really noticeable, is that this research is done fairly regularly as an economic health assessment. And pre-pandemic that number was ~$80,000. So its jumped about $30,000 in a handful of years.
That last point hits home so hard. An income bump for me in 2018, from a lifetime average of about $50,000 to about $80k, was life changing. Wife’s income remained about the same at $50k for her. We remained there through 2021. “Comfortable” was attained. With the inflation of ‘21 and ‘22, I felt I needed to, no choice but, to take a much less fulfilling position at a dumpster fire company, for $105k. Wife’s income jumped to $70k, taking on more responsibility. And we are both much less satisfied with life in general. Much more of a feeling of emptiness and over-worked. But, $100k is now 2019’s $75k. That’s literally what it takes now. But, oh, the cost on your mental well Being.
I don't see how that's possible. High income with high debt carries its own kind of stress, but you'd still have equity, probably a 401k, a high paying job, and the skills to get another one if you lose it. Your car might get repossessed, or your student loan might go into default, but you can always file bankruptcy and be okay. That's not the same kind of stress you have when you worry that you'll be homeless if you lose your job, or you wonder if you might have to go to the food bank this month, or your kid only wants one thing for Christmas, and it's something you could never afford. That's a never-ending, deep in your bones kind of stress.
At a certain range financial stress is existential. Besides mourning, no other kind of stress is worse for the body and mind.
For real. Luxury spending typically buys around 2 weeks of elevated mood. Essential spending buys security, relief, peace. Those can be huge changes that are potentially perpetual.
The point is that while it might make your day (to whom it wouldn't), it most likely won't make you meaningfully happier in medium or longer term.
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Yeah, it’s no wonder that people who make less would be happier receiving $10k. All a matter of perspective for sure. Receiving $10k would literally change my entire life right now, as ridiculous as that may sound.
That doesn't sound ridiculous, it's the truth for about two thirds of America. ~63% of people on America are living in paycheck-to-paycheck households.
And in most of the world $10K is more than a year's salary
Yeah that's totally fair. For me it would probably fade in a year two, but for a lot of people it could completely change the course of their lives.
As someone who makes under 100k with a wife and 3 kids...we recently had a chance to come into just under 10k. I do side work occasionally and got into 3 super easy jobs that paid out. I'm the bread winner as it saves way more money for her to run to school and watch our toddler. We paid for a vacation for next year, caught up with some bills, paid a car off and saved some for a baller ass Christmas for the kids. There will be a small amount tossed into the savings account but the weight off of our shoulders for a few days was absolutely fantastic. We've been able to breathe and relax a little. We still budgeted the hell out of the next few months but knowing we caught up and can relax for a minute is wonderful.
I totally get that. I'm in a better space financially now, but I remember how easily things piled up, and it made me feel like I was barely treading water. Being able to catch up on some bills was amazing. It really did feel like catching your breath.
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You make a pretty good point here. If (as the old adage goes) 'Money can't buy happiness' is being researched, why not investigate the other side of the coin: Does losing one's bankroll and home and car bring up emotions opposite of happiness? I'd suggest that even without research that at least for the short term, that would be a resounding 'yes'. Hey, thanks for the comment my friend :)
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It's not that money has no meaning when you're making that much. It's just that $10k doesn't move any needles appreciably. Pay down some debt early, you're not behind on bills, you're good. Taking that $10k away can cause stress though, most people in that income range don't have that much just sitting around. $10k adds some more security to an already relatively secure situation. When you're making less though you get a major stress drop because you're no longer behind on bills, etc. It creates that base level of security that higher incomes have (generally).
I make over 150k/year 10k being taken out would hurt, but wouldn't break the bank. Getting 10k wouldn't really change anything in my life.
It has considerably less meaning imho. When you are absolutely rock bottom broke for a prolonged period, every £10 note (UK here, sorry - convert to your local currency if preferred) is precious and a hell of a lot of thought and planning can go on making sure it is spent to maximise the possible value gained from spending it. A penny jar can be a godsend on a day where there is literally no food to offer your loved ones and when you have gone without eating for a day or more yourself already. Finding a £5 note in a long unused jacket pocket feels like winning the lottery, and a 5p coin on the pavement is worth routinely picking up and briefly feels like a win. Getting £10k in a lump some for whatever reason is a life changing moment when you’re in that position. It might as well be £1million because the feeling is basically the same. Now I appreciate this is all basically just what you describe as moving a needle, but it’s the emotional response I’m trying to get across here - and that’s what I see as *”valuing”* money. Inversely, living on a stable income of 100-150k/yr will obviously provide a middle class lifestyle with some savings in the bank. Not worrying about money means that a sum of £10k is just yet more money. It doesn’t move any needles significantly as you say, but it equally won’t make you *feel* very much. For this person, a loaf of bread being £1.20 or £3.40 will mean very little. A 15% rise in weekly food shopping can go unnoticed. And the £5 in the jacket will stay there because it won’t ever be searched.
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> I was a house party. Then who was phone?!
Exactly this. I have been on both ends of this spectrum. Fortunately on the good end now. A couple of years ago we got 20000 from something that we weren't expecting. Don't get me wrong it was great to get it, but we kinda just said that's great! Then we shifted some more to savings, lowered debt like student loans etc. But it didn't change our lives in a noticable way at all. If I had gotten it when I was younger and poor as hell it would have changed my life in significant ways. It's expensive to be poor. Always worrying about a running car, overdraft fees, fast food because no time to cook between 2 jobs, no or garbage health insurance and all kinds of other things.
I know it's not your point exactly, but there's no way that $10k has no meaning to a family who makes $125k. Edit: I appreciate everyone's responses. The person I responded to was talking about taking $10k away from people at that income level. I'm not trying to refute the study. Just saying that taking away the equivalent of one month's income from a family at that income level would not be meaningless. It is a different situation from the study.
I think it's more that if you just gave me $10k, I don't really know what I would do with it. My immediate needs are taken care of. It's not going to enable me to change my lifestyle. So I would probably just invest it? But if you told me you would reimburse me $10k to spend on anything I wanted, it would be amazing. Basically top of the line new gear in all of my hobbies. But I don't feel comfortable just spending $10k like that
I agree with you. The other poster was suggesting taking away $10k rather than giving.
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Ya, the saying "Money can't buy happiness" leaves a hell of a lot out. Having been at a point in our lives where my wife and I were deciding between bills or groceries, I can say that now being in that "over 123k" group makes life _way_ easier. Stress over buying food is just gone. I go to the store and buy the items on my list. I do look at the total when checking out; but, I'm not keeping a running total in my head while shopping. If something catches my eye, I buy it. That said, I'd be quite happy if someone handed me 10k. I suspect it's mentioned in the study, if I could be arsed to read it. But, the number of people living on that income likely matters. As a family of 4, our costs are a bit higher.
Money can't buy happiness but it sure can facilitate the pursuit of it.
>Sounds like communism You keep using that word, but it doesn't mean what you think it means.
That was the joke.
Surely this needs a COL and lifestyle adjustment. 2 kids in a major city and this is practically paycheck to paycheck. Out in the countryside this is buy a new toy every year money.
Why is it the most important part? It just means the amount they received didn’t have a lot of effect because their baseline is higher. Maybe if they received 10x or 100x it would have an effect?
Maybe but then I remember there are studies that show incomes above 85k showed little improvements in overall happiness. Idk what that would be in todays money but there’s definitely something to money buying happiness only up to a certain point. EDIT: Wow, I just realised this is actually refuting that study I was referencing. So clearly there isn't a clean consensus on the matter. https://www.nysscpa.org/news/publications/nextgen/nextgen-article/study-finds-strong-relation-between-income-and-happiness-does-not-max-out-at-75k
I used to make $98k a year. If you gave me $10k back then I doubt it would have affected my happiness much. I make around $35k today and if you gave me $10k I’d be extremely happy.
Interesting, not to pry but do you mind telling what happened? No worries if not. Best.
I was laid off when the company I worked for was sold. Best job I was able to get only pays 35k. Been looking for something better for a while now but so far no luck.
I'm sorry to hear that, thank you for sharing. I hope the absolute best for you in the future.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate that. Hope the same for you!
Good luck out there
It's more like relives stress of finance. I'm lucky enough to be in this kind of position and I can tell you money won't buy you happiness, but it sure as hell can buy you freedom from stress.
That is the subtle but crucial distinction. Money cannot buy happiness, but it can relieve pain.
> Money cannot buy happiness It sure does fund the search for it, though
The article you linked is not about the effect maxing out at 75k or 85k but about a newer study (with better methodology, imo) refuting it.
Wouldn't this depend on the year the study was released as well to take into account cost of living, inflation, etc.? It seems as though prior studies like the 75k a year happiness one was done in 2010 for example. Curious on if people's geographies (tied to cost of living) and family sizes were also factored in - haven't delved into these studies yet but seems as if it would vary a lot.
That more recent study you linked says the exact opposite
I make close to $100,000 a year and so does my domestic partner but we'd still be happier with $10,000 extra dollars. Like that's still meaningful to me. Maybe it's because we haven't been making $100,000 for long and townhomes that share walls and are next to our apartment just sold for $1,200,000 this year. Definitely seems location dependent.
They already **have** the benefit of having money. Adding money to a situation with surplus money doesn’t increase happiness. Adding money to a situation where things are having to be sacrificed constantly, and juggling who to pay this month is necessary because it’s not possible to pay all bills each time, **that** situation will be improved. Seems obvious to me.
Also you need to add enough money to eliminate something. Eliminate someone’s mortgage and you’ll get a much bigger effect than the ability to pay off 5% of it. It’s really about eliminating insecurities as those makes us unhappy.
I am willing to challenge this theory. Please give me 20k to test it. Hell gimme 10k and I'll show them that's wrong.
They didn't turn it down, they still took the money. It's just taking the money didn't end up making them any happier. Because anything they actually needed they already had. I'm sure they wanted the money just as much as you do. But you just want it out of habit.
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I think it's more about having financial freedom and less stress in life helps define happiness.
It absolutely is. Someone worried about how they’re going to pay the rent this month and cutting back on food vs someone who can make rent and but just barely able to afford the food they usually get in a month is a big difference on such a small scale.
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I thought this was an Onion article...
Last time this study popped up on here, it was $70,000. Happiness keeps getting further and further out of my grasp.
I could've told you this. I went from a single person household making 36K a year to 54k a year and although I've only received one paycheck under the new pay and I already have a sunnier disposition. I can afford rent, bills, AND food? Yes, please!
Yeah absolutely. I noticed a considerable difference in my mental health when I start earning more money. I grew up pretty poor (big family from an underdeveloped town - basically a social welfare town in Ireland) and now I've got my own house in a lovely neighbourhood, a nice car, a dog I can spoil and pay my bills and still have enough afterwards to treat myself - yeah I'm much Much happier now. A few years ago I was working full time and literally had to survive on noodles and bread, just so I could afford to bring my aging dog for arthritis treatment in the vets. I don't regret a second of that decision, would do it all over again for my current pup, but I remember how down I felt. I remember how sad I felt that I couldn't do more for her. I put what measley savings I could scrape together to get her an orthopedic bed an all. But now I can afford to bring this little dude to the vet, without asking to borrow money from loved ones.
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They used to say $70k was the limit. Thanks inflation
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It's almost like the old adage is a big load of bs to stop the plebs from revolting
Money has diminishing returns when used for purchasing happiness doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
It can't buy happiness but it removes a lot of stress and possibly gains youfree time, which gives you a hell of an advantage when trying to increase your happiness.
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Who’s getting these payments? I would like to volunteer. For science.
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Thank you science, I'd never know this if not for you.
"Whoever said money can't buy happiness never owned a jetski" - Daniel Tosh
The sensation of no debt and cash in the bank is borderline orgasmic.
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I’m glad this study was commissioned, I hear the next study will be to determine if a sharp poke in the eye will promote sadness.
Whoa! No one could have predicted this.
Actually, *More money than usual buys happiness* should be the title. I don’t think richer people are happier, I don’t have data to support this though. Also I believe the happiness level goes back to pre-transfer levels pretty fast.
I’ve always heard *money can’t prevent sadness* as a better replacement to the original. As in, it doesn’t matter how wealthy you are, you’ll still know what death in the family or other unhappy experiences feel like.
I would stray to guess it isn't the money so much that made them happy it's the stress causing circumstances that the money reduced that allowed them to do things that made them happy. Not having to worry about bills and having time to live are the things that make everyone happy.
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Money can’t buy happiness but it does make it easier to be happy… wise words my dad once gave me when I was picking between some job offers
This is not a surprise to anyone that has ever seen a significant increase in their income.
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