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seduction-ModTeam

This post/comment has been removed because it violates Rule #5: The topic is too broad, has been covered a lot already, or involves the assumption overly limited by race, age, physical limitations/appearance, and/or other inborn external qualities. Put in [some reading](http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/?sort=top&t=all) & work before asking questions that have been addressed, like: * How do I approach? * How do I get a number? * How do I talk to girls at college? * How/When do I kiss a girl? * Does this really work? As for the last one, it is an answered question. There have been many posts on physical limitations over the years, including [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/e7tol8/why_looks_dont_matter/). No need to re-ask it.


kuavi

Congratulations, now the mentally healthier chicks are into you and the immature ones aren't. Or maybe you don't have a strong frame anymore, lost a 6-pack, didn't age well, etc. I don't know your life haha


Yellow_Squeezer

I try to be way more empathetic and compassionate towards them, which doesn't work with the lines I used to say anymore.. Like let's say a girl says she can't go out, I'd say "okay so you want to stop seeing each other, ok bye". Which is really fkn toxic! Now I just say "okay no worries" but that bores them to death. Idk man it needs balance but even a little toxicity is still toxicity. And it doesn't help that I don't really like the mature women yet. I'm still drawn to the immature ones:/ way more fun in some aspects


Professional_Kick149

what was ur prior self like? could u give many examples


Yellow_Squeezer

Don't join the dark side brother.. you'll be successful with girls yes but you'll only be reaffirming their trauma. Girls that respond well to toxic lines are often victims of abuse or neglect. Sadly that's a lot of women. Are you okay with playing on their trauma and making it worse, just to get them?


Professional_Kick149

i’m curious for psychological reasons. u can give me the gun i won’t shoot it


mjornir

>u can give me the gun i won’t shoot it chuckled out loud at this


PrudentProcedure5092

I just wanna... feel the trigger haha


PixelSteel

The trigger is so hot 🥵


butterhoscotch

young girls think unjustified confidence is neat and equals strength. thats why they date a-holes in highschool. They grow out of it, but they still dont want a "nice guy" incel pussy either.


EliteEarthling

The previous reply had a funny edge to it. That part is indeed super cool. Keep that part of you alive. Saying a few lines with a tone of sarcasm is fine. You're worried about being seen as toxic? As long as your actions or words don't cause any serious harm, you should be fine


Other-Style1958

Empathy and compassion are earned through long-term, and I wouldn't use either during your initial dates, meets, chats I think you need to stop labeling things as toxic vs. non-toxic because it would be helpful to not waste mental thoughts, energy, and mindset on that. It's fine being into immature girls. Just don't forget that there is immaturity. For example, don't expect an immature girl or person to sit still at an opera or Broadway show for hours. Don't expect immature to rationally argue or logic things a majority of the time. In your example, the first reply is good. You either got a fuck you, ignored, or the really interested would explain and maybe actually plan something with you later. I think you need to go back to that statement but don't use it all the time. You could substitute a cool, sure, I forgot I had plans( DO NOT go into detail), use flake excuses you got from girl A on girl B, something came up, hell go on to relationship advice and borrow flake excuses. You are a person with valuable time who has things they could be doing instead of waiting around for someone who doesn't know what they want to make up their mind. Your initial response shows that and the only thing I would change with it is you saying that is really fkn toxic. Nice guy meme/movement is what I consider too much. Don't do that.


Clollin

Not sure about op, but your second paragraph describes me.


GROWINGSTRUGGLE

what's a strong frame?


butterhoscotch

his body


thiswontlastlongv

Mentally healthier = 5’s & 6’s😂


Legal_Development

A mentally stable 5 will help you get further in life with less problems than a wrecked 8/9. You gotta play your cards right and don't end up with the wrong women that are capable of fucking your life over for good. You'll regret it.


thiswontlastlongv

Oh as someone who was recently wrecked by an 8.5 I totally agree! She left my life in bits, I’m still not recovered But if we went for 6’s we wouldn’t need this sub😂 we’d all be married


shinn497

Women care more about confidence than intelligence. Don't listen to them when they say they want a smart man. They want a man they can relate to.


blowmyassie

Why would confidence make them relate to you? Wouldn’t that assume women are confident? Or do you mean relate as in -they want what they can’t have? Aka confidence?


shinn497

Communication is as much about feelings and nonverbal ques as it is things that you say. Consider this. I'm a physicist. I love quantum mechanics. There are very few, to almost no women that will be attracted to me because I've taught myself quantum mechanics. Hell, even if they are other physicists this is not true. So it isn't just my knowledge about quantum mechanics that would make me attractive. However, if I talk about quantum mechanics in a way they can relate to. I.E. by using analogies, metaphors, and colloquial language that people that have not studied it can understand, I have a far higher chance at capturing their attention. And me relating to them won't just be about me talking about quantum mechanics, but because I am passionate and talking about something I love. The same kind of conversation skill will work for any hobby. It is not the specific information, it is the enthusiasm and confidence you have. It also helps if you throw in a funny story or an anecdote that makes for a fun conversation. She will be drawn to you from the feelings she feels, not the information you give her.


Yellow_Squeezer

Yeah but they shouldn't, ideally, no? In the past I would adapt to this rule, now I want to change women. See? I'm smarter but probably even annoying.


shinn497

You are not going to change women. You can attempt to play the numbers game and find a woman that likes intelligence. Or more specifically your brand of intelligence. But this will require more searching. If you want to example your attractiveness to more women, the most effective thing would be to focus on confidence.


Yellow_Squeezer

I don't like how this works in general. I think we should focus on changing how we humans choose our mates, what behavior we accept and normalise, etc. Only that way we can make a real change in the world, which is right now beyond messed up. And the change starts with us. Yes, even you have to change.


shinn497

Bro you are free to attempt to "create change in the world" in order to improve your dating life. But attempting to create a social movement, or effect the behaviour of millions of people, is a very high endeavor in order to solve your own specific dating problem. It would be far far far more feasible and efficient to change your self and your life to cater to the way people already act.


LazyBuhdaBelly

Sounds like you're coming off too preachy, and that's a turn off. Are you trying to change these women or date them? Like, dating is supposed to be fun activity, not a philosophy lecture. Have the fun part first. Also confidence is good, arrogance is not. If you feel that your opinions are the "right" ones, and hers are "wrong", then that's already a turn off. This has nothing to do with being "smart" but everything to do with how you carry yourself. Loosen up man, we're all gonna die someday. Be fun, be flirty, and be smart. You can do all of those things at once.


[deleted]

This is a super cliche saying but it’s one that’s super true: Girls just want to have fun


iAmHim_0

U can be a smart philosopher but u need to channel the same energy I had when u were ‘dumb.’ It’s more about your intense conviction in yourself than any single idea. Also women are hardwired to like masculinity, and ‘toxic’ masculinity is a completely female idea anyway, it’s just masculinity, women like masculinity, try to think of what parts of yourself you changed on ur way to becoming ‘smart’ that maybe you didn’t have to, or maybe u realize something u did that women responded well to u just threw the baby out with the bathwater. Good luck! And no, >90% of women, and men, don’t really give af about making the world better…


[deleted]

[удалено]


joebidenonmywrist

this is a crazy take n idk how u think u can jus summarise all girls in a paragraph like this. i’ve met lots of girls who like being intellectually simulated n enjoy having deep conversations. u sound very ignorant and maybe have not had much experience with mature women.


Yellow_Squeezer

I agree with you, there are many "gems" that love deep philosophical debates. They tend to go for the higher quality men though - not always more confident, more in the intelligence department. Smart girls know to look beyond insecurity in a guy.


thiswontlastlongv

Oh STFU the ‘all police’ in full force hes clearly talking in generalities you simp


Yellow_Squeezer

Yeah but there are tons of problems in the world right? Not caring about them means being privileged enough to never have lived through any of the evilness the world offers. But that's no excuse for them.


Jilluminati1

Bruh how many intellectual business concepts do you bring up in class?


Weightless-Rock

Welcome to dating women in 2023


Comfortable_Virus849

Lmao fuck no! Girls base level can only care about themselves. Literally no girl cares about the world and what kind of place it is. Always remember Hitler had a girl, whoever we think is bad probably has a girl by his side. I get you 100% tho because when I was dumber and cared less I would get girls so easy and naturally. But now that I’m smarter and actually care about things that can come off as boring. Girls just wanna have fun and they hate being bored. Life is weird how it goes.


Yellow_Squeezer

I think way more girls care about the world than men. Both genders are messed up and selfish in this, but women are way more caring and empathetic. Which makes them better future leaders imo.


Superiority-Qomplex

Even though toxic narcissism is not accepted as a positive trait ethically, it's absolutely a evolutionary benefit to have such a trait. You'll find that people who escalate up the ladder tend to have toxic narcissism in them and it tends to get them rich and powerful. There is no question that you can get women with money and wealth, even if they think you're an asshole. That said, are those the women you want? Is that the life you want? Some people do. Some people find the idea of being a narcissistic asshole to be awful. If you just want the women who are addicted to your money and power, great! If you want something deeper than that, chances are you are going to find them too. Just not as easy as the flashiness you exude isn't as apparent. The women that will love you for you, tend to need to get to know you first to see if you're their ideal or not. The diggers just need to see you're likely to have gold. Anywho, you get to choose how you live your life and who you want to be with. But if you want the women who love you for you, you need to put a little more effort into that now. I personally think that's better, but your life, your choice.


blowmyassie

What kind of effort?


Superiority-Qomplex

Actually getting to know each other.


TheVelvetyPermission

I went thru this too. I think when you decide to be more empathetic/understanding/compassionate you can tend to be too soft with your boundaries.. and just with your actions overall. A lot of girls like a little edge, sarcasm, grit. Now that you’ve changed into a different person you will need to find the way to seduce as this different person. Important to remember you’re never going to be able to attract everyone though.


Iam8incheslong

They were attracted to the confidence which bordered on arrogance. This is especially common with less mature girls or victims of abuse. You need to find a way to be more confident and imply toxicity without being toxic if you want to open up your options. You can tease girls and pretend to be toxic without actually crossing the line into true toxicity. It requires a certain degree of finesse though.


thiswontlastlongv

Asshole with your words, gentleman with your actions


Iam8incheslong

Essentially. Though you can avoid being an asshole with your words too. You can just imply being an asshole if you choose your words carefully. Also, if the goal is casual sex, as long as you perform well, you can get away with mostly just talking about the sexual encounter and teasing her about that instead of risking discussing anything truly personal.


Orionbelt0

Examples??


epimpstyle

"Balance" is the key, something in the middle, going to the extreme is not good, being too bad is as wrong as being too good.


Clollin

I have this experience as well.


Atriev

I like the question but it’s coming from the wrong angle and a lot of the answers won’t tackle the solution. Answering the questions you pose probably won’t actually improve your game. So instead, I’ll just point out the issue: The biggest issue is you were never calibrating to begin with. The girls you were around were into the type of guy you acted like so that broad paintbrush allowed you to pull more. Now that you’ve changed your world views/values, you aren’t gaming and calibrating to what those girls are used to. 2 solutions. Either calibrate or go find a different crowd to run around with a different type of girl. In game, we always talk about calibrating because it allows you to expand and no type of girl becomes off limits. Essentially you were pulling girls because your framework was just coincidentally what the girls around you liked. But if you apply that game elsewhere, it would fail. And now that your framework has changed, those same girls that coincidentally liked you don’t feel the same vibe anymore, but if you went somewhere else, other girls would probably like you.


thiswontlastlongv

Your figuring out the game. If you listen to what women say…. You’ve failed the test. They now know you can’t think for yourself. That’s why girls like jerks because atleast they know they think for themselves


dodged_that_one

When they first meet you, girls want to have fun. If you're a confident idiot, you'll take them on a roller-coaster of emotions because your stupid world view will be challenging, ridiculous and exciting, plus your confidence will be engaging. You're basically emotional junk food to them and they'll scarf it down even if it's insubstantial and perhaps outright toxic. Women want that, even if they know that they should be going for Mr Kale. They figure they'll have Kale tomorrow... In general, people don't go for philosophers. Thinking is hard and most don't like it. They appreciate the application of intelligence if it benefits them (entertaining or short-cut to something good) but not if it requires them to think themselves.


ellabbanlaith

Bro women aren’t capable of deep thought like that, don’t expect it or you’ll be disappointed


Environmental_Cress2

lol. Following


Luke_Cardwalker

LOL! Reassuring to know that not all the idiots are guys… 😂


CharmingRejector

I think you pretty much answered your own question here. But here's a mindfuck for you. I used to get way more hot girls when I was just a friendly, cool guy that didn't try anything. Suddenly these super hot chicks were fawning for me, or trying to get me out, or generally pursuing me. Meanwhile, when I got hot and heavy with the sixes, they'd reject me super-hard. Same if I tried to edge-lord the hotties. It was truly weird for me. So, I'm in the complete opposite boat as you, being *nice* is what works for me lol. And being this edgy dude has gotten me exactly nowhere (with hot women anyway, HB8+). Meanwhile, what has helped in *both* instances, is relentlessly escalating. You don't have to be this edgy guy. You don't have to pull off the meanest negs. As long as you gently turn up the sexual tension and go for the kiss. You can be the nicest guy and still get hot and heavy with the girl, by saying the nicest things - as long as you also escalate. No need to be a bad boy 😎 - not verbally anyway. As long as you escalate. 💋 All the best.


videogames_

Women into hookups like edgier men. You can't negotiate or logic attraction. However, women looking for something long term will lean towards a better man. It isn't always the case though because just like men, some women can be bad.


Funky_hobbo

I don't know you but, do you think that maybe, earlier one, with that "toxic" and edgier personality, maybe you set boundaries with more consistency than now? Having strong boundaries might be polarizing but in general, it's a turn on. Girls don't like pusillanimous guys. Maybe you need to find a way to make yourself more clear with your boundaries while remaining true to your current being.


Epiphanic_Eros

Be a good person, and also know exactly what you want. Then take your pleasure. As you first start, move incrementally but decisively. Always keep close attention to her reactions, and always be responsive to her desire, and even more so her consent. If you have the inclination, I'd strongly recommend that you start exploring D/s dynamics, which are beautiful and intimate and very hot. And many amazing women desire to be dominated.


butterhoscotch

your older, girls you hit on are older and less interested in bs


The-Helper-B

Very common. The less you intellectualize things, the better you are with girls. Girls just wanna have fun. You should want to have fun too! Use your brain for practical matters but when it comes to girls shut that shit off.


alex7stringed

The Ancient Greeks wanted to have philosopher kings but what do we have now? Popular fools. Take your pick


[deleted]

“Treat girls like if they were 10” They just want to have fun and laugh about silly things. Forget about politics, money or problems.


SubstantialSir351

>I know that I don't know most things, so I'm not acting too confident about anything. That's the problem, I believe, whatever you are good at or whatever you know, own it and show confidence with it. Been wise should change your opinions no your whole frame as an individual.