I'll go on a bit of an opposite direction from the rest of the comments. It's not a turn off in the sense that I'll still be attracted regardless - but I will probably not pursue a serious relationship with someone who has no job prospects or financial stability
This. It kinda baffles me how little people are seeming to get that. In my personal life and experience, I don't know anyone who has dated considerably outside of their "class" or income bracket. Poor people date other poor people, rich people other rich people, and middle class can have some room but usually the same.
I Shocked a friend of mine when we first started talking because I said I would refuse to date a rich man. She was stunned because to her everyone wants a rich man. I said that I, and most people I knew, want someone who understands me. I want someone who knows what my life was like before and I simply will not find that from someone who was raised middle-class and above. My husband and I have a common ground there, because we grew up not only in the same town but in similar conditions. Even though we are not the same race, we both identified with being poor kids from the sticks.
The thread is from the perspective that rich/high status people don't want to date "down" but that's a two-way street. I know lots of poor people who look down on people who work office jobs because it's not "real" work. Who were raised with an animosity/hostility, sometimes even a downright hatred, of rich people. From my perspective, someone who grew up privileged (financially) or who is out of touch with daily struggles of poverty is cringe/embarrassing.
I'm a lifelong office worker, and in the past I avoided dating service workers because they seemed to have a huge chip on their shoulder about office workers, and tell me I have nothing to be tired about after a long day at work
Lol tell me about it. I used to work at a gas station and often people would come in and "ask how are you?" To which my usual response would be "tired" because I have a sleep disorder. The usual response would be a scoff or eye roll like how can you be tired you're young/you don't work construction, outside, hard labor, etc. Like that's the only way you can be tired lol. I've since learned that "sleepy" is the more accurate word 😅 but the sentiment is the same. Apparently only people who work 12 hrs shifts in a factory or brick laying can be tired
You're asking this to a bunch of people who'd marry the first woman to smile at them. To go against the grain here, for me at least it is definitely a turn off. I think most of the men willing to date someone in a far lower job tier do it because they like the power dynamic it creates in the relationship. Any man looking for a more traditional relationship where he's the bread winner and she raises the kids is going to be ok with this dynamic, but these men also usually expect to be the "head of the household" and have the woman cater to him. And even if he isn't explicitly looking for this, he's not going to want to lower his lifestyle to stay within what's affordable to you. Its going to be a lot of him financially supporting you so you can live up to the standard he's at. This can begin with no bad intent, but even subconsciously this can create a power imbalance.
Personally Im looking for someone to be my equal in a relationship and that's much easier to do when there's less of an income discrepancy. Now I'm not looking for it to be an exact match, but I'd have my bar, no offense, higher than a job I could get when I was still in high school. I think it would be easier if you were at a similar income when you started dating and then later one party had a big jump in income because you have the time to establish the relationship dynamic before there's the discrepancy.
In short, I don't think your mom's perspective is universal, but I think its going to be difficult (not impossible) to find a man with a significantly higher income who will treat you as an equal.
THANK YOU.
surprised I had to scroll this far. im moderately successful by traditional measures. I work in a challenging industry and make over six figures, only adding that to give some context to my opinion.
job absolutely does matter. it's not an immediate "no" to a cashier, but someone who is a working professional, and more my equal (or greater) has qualities that I find attractive (ambitious, hardworking, etc.).
it is not about being ashamed. I would not be ashamed to date someone who is a cashier.
so many replies here I get the sense are coming from people who would say yes to anything that breathes, or aren't really as successful as they think. I'm sure opinions vary, but from my experience it is true that generally professionals prefer to date other professionals. there is just more in common there.
If cashiers made 90k a year would that change things? Is it the job that's the turn off or the low pay? Or let's switch the job. Let's say a bathroom attendant at some swanky place that makes 150k in tips and salary.
I'm asking because I dont know how I feel about it. Like I think it's the job but I only think that because of how much importance it's put on us from such a young age.
I’m a woman but I think it’s the money. Companies don’t generally pay people a lot of money to do things that are super entry level and anyone can do. If you’re an adult and your long term plan is to work a job high schoolers are qualified to work then not only are you setting your family/partner up for potential unnecessary financial stress but you are also demonstrating a strong lack of motivation or care to make something better of yourself. Maybe you enjoy an amazing work life balance and appreciate simple things in life, I’m sure there are merits to working in a low paying job and tbh some of these people are probably working harder than your average professional so I’m not trying to judge. But then your ideals might not be in line with a high earner. But instead of putting her down I think OPs mom should be trying to convey that it is not a good idea to rely on someone else financially and that a woman or man should be independent enough to support themselves and escape from an abusive relationship should it ever come to that.
If they have the intelligence and capabilities of someone who’s able to get a job that requires a degree, sure. But the reality is there’s bigger differences between the majority of cashiers and the majority of doctors than just an income gap.
It's not the job for me. It's the education and income. If you make 10k a year that's an issue. If you have a just a GED that's an issue. If you pull in 70k doing a brainless job but you have a good education and think deeply about things I'm fine with that. You're not defined by your job.
For me it’s more about what the job actually is.
I’d rather marry an English professor making 100k than someone someone in sales making 150k
But I have no interest marrying someone whose career abilities are working at Walmart unless that’s a temporary gig while obtaining XYZ degree/career
I had a similar reply before seeing your post.
This was my first thought as well. There are a lot of insecure men that need to feel they have more power in a relationship and think having all the money will provide them that so they actively look for someone they can own.
It may not be fair but for me, someone that is more my equal professionally is perceived as having a higher level of emotional and intellectual maturity and someone that I can more easily identify and share experiences with.
That doesn't mean its true but there is comfort there for better or worse. It also doesn't mean I wouldn't date the walmart cashier but I don't know how that interaction would happen that would lead me to meeting that person and engaging with them in a way that would allow me to learn about them as I much more likely to meet someone close to my field of work or shares in a hobby I like that might require a certain amount of disposable income not grated to someone with a lower level job.
I was going to type out a reply until I saw this. My wife and I make almost exactly the same amount, both doctorates, and there's little chance I would ever want to be with someone making substantially less.
Not to say that high earning = intelligent partner, but they're more likely to be my partner and equal.
This needs to be higher. And to add my own preference: I don’t care specifically about the job or income, but if it’s not a great career, what are you doing to better yourself for the future? I was previously married to a woman that made less than 1/3 of what I make (which was basically the maximum for her position), in a job that had opportunity for growth but only with additional education. She had absolutely no interest in going back to school, and no interest in doing anything to improve herself. Years later she’s probably still doing the same thing.
The woman I’m engaged to now is intelligent and driven. Two master’s degrees under her belt and constantly learning. She has been promoted multiple times in the last couple of years, reached the 6-figure threshold, and at this rate will probably pass me in salary within a year.
I had no idea what I was missing when I was with my ex. The way she was content to just coast through life making barely enough to scrape by and relying on her partner for the rest, it was something I kind of just accepted because it was nothing compared to her other terrible traits. But now that I’ve experienced what it’s like to have someone that I feel on equal footing with mentally and emotionally, it’s incredible.
I think there are lots of ways that "family income" and the future trajectory of that income can negatively affect two people building a life together. If your financial goals and lifestyle aspirations / ambitions aren't aligned, it may eventually lead to resentment - someone feeling they're at the wrong end of the power dynamic you describe but also the higher earner could feel "held back".
I think it's probably one of those topics that should be discussed but that often goes undiscussed, particularly through "courtship".
The only real response. I would want my wife around the same level of job as me. My wife and my are both in HR. If she suddenly only worked a part-time job making half of what she makes now it would be upsetting. Being in a relationship is already hard work. Adding inequality in job status only makes things more difficult, especially if there are financial issues that arise.
Eh, for me it's more about if they're happy and passionate about what they do or if they're actively working towards those goals. Let's say if I'm making 200k a year my partners dream was to be a barista or someshit and she absolutely loved it than I really couldn't care less what she does.
I agree. It is not even so much that the job and the money are the problem, it is a life style. I don't make a lot of money, and I don't care what jobs people I date work, but I also wouldn't date someone who is making millions, as their life style and very likely their values would clash with mine.
OP should look at their mums comments from another perspective - why go for "successful" high earners when there are men with lower end jobs available? A honest answer to this question should hint at what "men generally want".
Same for me. I have a university degree and have an alright salary. I wouldn't be 100% opposed to being with someone with a "low tier" job, but it would be a big negative. I want my partner to be an equal. I want us to discuss stuff, including spending money, on equal footing.
Theres a big difference in my and my wifes earnings.
I wouldnt say I want a "traditional" household. (My wife does DIY, my mum was a welder!).
I've always said I want a partner, not a passenger.
My wife would be disappointed in me if I judged her by her pay packet, and the reverse is true.
For me, it's not about the money (as long as they don't have an expensive taste and expect me to cover for it).
But I am a scientist myself, I like learning new things and having conversations about my work, or about science in general. I would like to have a partner who finds this interesting. Otherwise, we will both bore each other. So I am biased in favour of university educated women.
Otherwise, it is attractive if people have ambition and are motivated to learn something and become good at it. It's not about the money, I could see myself dating someone who works for a charity and gets fulfilment from that. But not with a cashier, who is happy with doing just that for her whole life, I think we just would not vibe.
I imagine it depends on the man.
I will say, I work in the kind of field where spouses/partners are often invited to professional social events. It's an educated, well paid field. Among the men, I would say more than half the SOs were on a similar level professionally. Even when the SO is in a lesser-educated or lesser-paid job, it's still something that would be considered "respectable" or something that someone does because they love it. For example, teacher, social worker, yoga instructor.
Any job that's close to "the help" would be looked down upon... maid, cashier, delivery person... I've never met a SO with a job like this.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong or even normal, it's just what I've seen.
I mean... I live in Turkey,economy is so fucked up here right now so it would be pretty hard to live with someone that doesn't even have an average salary as I am myself probably not gonna have a job with very high salary.(still a student)
But even if I were to live in a country with good,or at least normal, economy, i would still prefer that my wife has a university diploma regardless of the discipline she studied, and earns at least a bit below average salary.But not beacuse of the reputation, I just think that getting a college education in some domain different than your partner would be fun to talk about and could able us to show each other new perspectives maybe.
I'll give you some solace... I'm in Canada, working with a university degree in computer science as an engineer. I can't afford a 1 bedroom apartment to rent (not even a run down one with roaches and rats and in the worst imaginable neighborhoods.
I mean…I don’t wanna downplay your problems dude but literally more than half of the population of Turkey literally give their left leg to be in your situation.
Or one partner with a more 'chill' career could allow the other to work harder by taking care of stuff at home. My wife was a teacher. We both have Master's Degrees and she's definitely more intelligent than I am but she's passionate about teaching and getting off at 3pm and having summer's off worked out amazing for our family.
I viewed all of our income as 'family income' because I couldn't put the time in my career without her help.
Despite the hype of feminism this is how things work A LOT of the time if a woman is VERY attractive, not always, but often. I’m not supporting or putting it down, I’m just saying this is often how it works in real life as opposed to internet life.
Now I’ll get the posts from 10’s who work oil rig and construction jobs for 16 hours a day. I know how Reddit works.
That’s just due to who you hang out with socially. Rich people hang with predominantly other rich people; middle class with middle class; and poor with poor. The barista may be cute, but you aren’t as likely to view her as even an option if you hang out at the country club every weekend.
Yeah, I wanted a woman who WANTED me, not one who NEEDED me.
I find value in a person who can do difficult things, has been stressed out and knows how to deal with those things because I have to do those things too.
My dating history has been optometrist, pharmacist, dentist, and now I’m engaged to an optometrist. While I have dated all sorts of women, I did find a better connection with the aforementioned
Even if a guy makes decent money I can imagine being the sole breadwinner is quite stressful. I wouldn’t mind working part time and staying home with the kids more but I never wanted to be a SAHM and I imagine like I said that’s quite stressful for the sole breadwinner anyways.
The fuck ?
I'd say I care MORE about her financial stability than her fucking looks. Pretty girls are everywhere. You ain't get no free pass at life cause you look good sugar free.
What did Mac Dre say?
No dough hoe? You know I say no.
Men don't typically think like women when it comes to situations like this.
Attractive? Loyal? Not promiscuous? Wants (or doesnt) want a family? These are the things we care about.
If I bring a new beautiful woman to a gathering the guys don't say...
"Oh but how much does she make?" "gross, she's a waitress?"
We are not women and thinking as your mother does will not get you far.
Men are also not a monolith, and some hetero men absolutely care about their partner's job/income. A partner who can earn a decent living is definitely very important to me. They don't have to be be a high-earner by any means, but they should be able to bring something to the table financially.
Titles/status doesn't directly translate to more money.
Someone delivering mail earns more than most but sitting in an office for less money is still seen as better status.
I think most guys don't care about the title, but will care that money is coming in.
But women are much more unlikely to marry below their level than men. Of all the female doctors I know, they’re almost all married to doctors, lawyers or engineers. Quite a few male doctors will marry a nurse, you just never see the reversed.
More than just the financial aspect (which I do believe is important), being in similar career environments also allows a the other person to be relatable. Understanding what your partner is going through, the problems they face and being able to solve them as a team is something I value.
As a man who is making 6 figures, I always looked for "goalmate" that could translate into a "soulmate".
That being said, you typically see people higher up together because one person opens a door for the other. So if you’re a barista but want to go to college to do something else your SO most likely will be happy to help you get into college. It has nothing to do with wanting a person with a specific job, it just so happens money opens doors.
It's not just that, it's also simply that you can't really make a relationship without proximity. Being around high status people means you have more chance at dating one of them, sounds stupid but it's pretty relevant.
This is more because college graduates (if you proxy college graduate for a "white collar" job), marry other college graduates at a much higher level.
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/15/college-marriage-facebook/2989039/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/15/college-marriage-facebook/2989039/)
28% of married college graduates attended the same college as their spouse
[https://www.brookings.edu/articles/college-friends-keep-getting-married-its-bad-news-for-your-travel-budget-and-inequality/](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/college-friends-keep-getting-married-its-bad-news-for-your-travel-budget-and-inequality/)
"Well-educated people tend to marry each other, a process with the unromantic label of “assortative mating.” One in ten marriages (9 percent) are now between two college graduates. Another 6 percent are between a couple where both have a post-graduate degree."
In my early 20s I didn't care at all because I lived in the moment. When I decided to settle down, I broke up with my ex because she was a huge spender and we weren't on the same page financially. Dating after her, their career and being money wise was just as if not more important than looks.
I grew up poor and knew I didn't want to live that way. I don't make huge bank and wasn't looking for a sugar mama, but needed someone who also had a decent career so we can live a comfortable middle class life. I passed on a lot of potential suitable partners.
>because she was a huge spender
tbf I suspect you probably would have parted ways with her even if she did make good money, because expensive taste isn't sustainable unless you are loaded or want to work yourself into the grave.
I grew up comfortably and want my kids to do the same. Also my ego would get hurt if i had to pay out a huge amount in divorce and alimony etc. that’s why I want someone earning a good amount too. So that worst case, my kids are still taken care of.
Kindness and emotional and overall stability and health is more important than their intelligence, career, money, family wealth, but those factors do matter. I wouldn’t want my finances or career to be what is creating the desire to date, have kids etc, and the butterflies and feelings on her end. Mutual physical attraction is so important, even harder to align career/financial situations and goals
I'm gonna have to disagree, it definitely matters. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but everything in life is somewhat transactional and love is no exception.
If you don't contribute as much in money, then you'll have to make up for it in other ways, and that means actually being better than him in those categories, not just equal.
So, it's not impossible for it to work but you are definitely playing with slanted odds if you want to marry a man that makes a lot of money and you don't.
I think there are more important determining factors. As long as you don’t have to completely rely on me, have a mind and some sort of plan, I don’t see the issue.
The biggest issue with someone working a day job Mon-Fri dating someone in the service industry is the incompatible schedules. It's really hard to spend quality time when one is off during evenings qnd weekends and the other works at those times.
I want someone who is capable of being my equal. There will always be a certain dynamic of control if the woman (or man) is not at least in a similar economic bracket. I am 100% turned on by my partners success. She is also attractive, loyal, and agrees with my thoughts on children and family.
I think by saying men typically don’t care is not accurate. Any man that knows what he is worth is going to find someone on his level. If not then he probably doesn’t view himself that positively.
I genuinely can’t believe this comment section lol - I feel like most people replying are not the kind of guys OP’s mom is talking about (ie below 6 figure earners hypothesizing how they *would* behave if they happened to earn that much).
tbh I’m with the mom on this one
I think so too! The men who are commenting are likely not highly successful lawyers and doctors. I think if a man is successful because he values education he would want an educated woman. Also a good/decent career signals certain values.
Educated professional married to another educated professional, for me it’s about ambition and drive. If I met someone who didn’t make much money but was driven, passionate, curious, and ambitious - someone with a dream and the wherewithal to pursue it - I can work with that. If they just don’t give a fuck and want to work hourly shit jobs forever and spend their free time shoveling tripe into their eyeballs, pass.
Tbh real talk men generally don’t care how much a women makes if ANYTHING there are probably more men that would prefer to date down then up and that in of itself is a little problematic but it’s the reality. Men having a shitty job is a much bigger deal dating wise.
As a guy I can say I have never not dated a woman due to her job. As long as she is doing something I don't really think about it.
I am way more interested in who she is as a person. Are we compatible? Is she fun to be with? Things like that.
Just because you have an unequal level job now doesn't mean it will always be this way.
For example. When my now spouse and I started dating. I worked as a computer technician making just above minimum wage. She worked in retail. Nearly 25 years later I'm an IT architect making a comfortable living. My spouse has done several jobs. Retail, Retail Management, Project Manager, payroll, Executive Assistant. She got sick a couple years ago and hasn't been well enough to work so she had been semi-retired. She's been volunteering at a dog shelter. But recently she's decided she'd like to see if she's well enough to join the workforce again so just as a test she's working part time in retail. But now things are unequal based on that logic I need to divorce my spouse? Heck no not happening.
Being married is being a part of the team everyone needs to contribute. But you both don't have to make the exact same contribution nor does the contribution need to be fiscal. Perhaps one prefers to cook, the other likes to garden or do home improvements. You're a team you have goals to push towards. Just divide up the tasks and assign them to each other and get at it.
Now if you and your potential partner don't have the same goals or morals etc. Then that's completely different. But if you're a Doctor and your potential spouse is a barista. If you love each other and what you're doing is safe and legal then that's where people should STFU. It's none of their business.
I think your mom is half right, half wrong.
She is wrong for believing a difference in income should determine your prospects. You should find love regardless of such factors.
That being said, differences in income often lead to differences in lifestyle. Lifestyle differences can be a factor that excludes compatibility.
So your mom is focusing on the wrong factor.
Statistically though, it's probably true that you don't often see long-lasting marriages of say, a university professor and a janitor (regardless of who's the man and who's the woman). Simply because it's harder to connect when people live very different lives. But it can happen.
True, but also which successful attractive men she is going to be meeting working at Walmart? I hope OP is a 10 or an amazing cook or something if she wants to date up.
The vast majority of couples marry within a similar salary range and social class.
You can't say "men don't care" when the vast majority do. You just aren't thinking about it correctly.
Yeah, assuming she's at least average, most white collar men would fuck her. If she's average, most white collar men would date her.
But *marry?*
That's a totally different question.
No one making 100k a year wants to marry a walmart worker unless they are much older and looking for a target to control.
People in happy relationships arent constantly trying to figure out where their last 10 dates went wrong,
They're trying to figure out what small bullshit is causing today’s resentment
I would be turned off by a woman who cares a great deal about a man's income but little about producing her own. Because in my eyes that's hypocrisy.
It's less of a concern if the woman truly isn't concerned about money from either person. Because then it is not unfair.
It wouldn’t be bad if your young maybe but after years and years of living the same life, having no achievements, no hobbies , or a good career can be off putting to motivated men or women. Its not to say you can find anyone but if your not going to be successful moneywise or in anything at all it would be boring to stick around especially if you yourself have lots going on
"years and years of living the same life, having no achievements, no hobbies , or a good career"-- wtf are 'hobbies' doing in the middle of this and why are you wrapping up all this stuff when 'a good job' was the point? Achievements, hobbies and career are not all connected, and who the hell doesn't have hobbies?
That’s what hobbies are for 🥰 we had fun, played, loved, traveled, worked through crisis after crisis, together. Built her up, she built me up. When we realised it won’t be easy and fast for her to improve, we concentrated on my career and her supporting me more for a while.
We reflect a lot about ourselves, and our relationship. Learned lots of things that went wrong in our past, still working on that actually.
After 17 years we took the path to parenthood, when our son was born last year. My wife flourishes in the mother role, I never loved her more. Our son is a blessing. It’s still unclear if she will ever be able to work, but we go one step at a time. With the child we have a couple years before we even have to think about it. And thanks to the improvements in my career I have a stable good paying job that can support us 3 comfortably.
While I don't think it's the amount earned that is the biggest deal, I do think there is a lifestyle inconsistency between hourly/shift working and salaried positions. If you don't have a job where your hours are constantly changing and it's like pulling teeth to plan more than a week ahead it can be really tough to date someone like that. You can't make consistent plans and/or plan for extended vacations in advance. Most salaried people I know (even lower paid ones) are able to easily make plans and not flake on them because their schedule lets them know when they can be available. Friends I know who work shift jobs are basically at the mercy of their manager for when they get free time and often struggle to plan for more than a 3 day vacation because of poor job security.
Depends on the man. That's definitely not a universal truth. Plenty of very wealthy men who prefer stay-at-home spouses. I do agree that you see a lot of lawyers married to other lawyers and doctors to doctors but I think it has more to so with them running in the same circles and more likely to meet and form a relationship. I work in Healthcare and have seen plenty of doctors married to nurses, techs, clerks, assistants. Isn't their role in Healthcare so much as they have the physical location of the hospital in common and some common ground understanding one another's occupation.
Exactly my thought as I scrolled through this. Doctors, lawyers, MBAs and engineers tend to marry doctors, lawyers, MBAs and engineers. There are a lot of reasons beyond the partner’s income. Most people I know like this met their spouse during their postgraduate education. I fall in that category, met my wife in law school. The time when you’re going through your professional degree coincides with when people usually pair up for marriage.
There’s also selection for intelligence, drive, and generally having your shit together. A professional career tends to mean you have all that. Being able to relate about politics and world events is also important and tends to skew similarly among similarly situations professionals
Same. My fiancé works in cybersecurity and I work under the government auditing scope with a cybersecurity background. My friend is an OR nurse dating an RN, etc etc.
I think this thread (like a lot of Reddit) is filled with kids with no life experience speaking hypothetically and single lonely men that feel like they’ll “take” any woman that looks their way.
Short answer: Not directly.
I can only speak to my experience and the anecdotal experience of my male acquaintances. I'm going to say "men" from now on for simplicity's sake, but I'm not a psychologist. My perspective is limited, and I'm not claiming to speak with authority.
Men tend to rate women on a single axis that takes into account many aspects of her situation. Things like beauty, personality, career path, and emotional maturity (or baggage), among many other things, all get grouped into a figurative pile in our brains and we decide if we're attracted/attached to you.
We'll tolerate a terrible personality if you're hot enough. We'll commit our whole lives to your happiness if you bring us joy and peace, even if you have a "low-tier" job and you're not the most attractive woman in town. We'll probably tolerate some personality flaws if you contribute to our stability with a high-paying job, but we'll equally tolerate unemployment if you're pleasant to be around.
Every individual values these things differently, but all of these things go into one pile, and a man decides if a given woman is worth the effort of maintaining a relationship.
SO: A "low-tier job" is not directly a turn-off. A low tier job MIGHT mean we have little common ground in careers and finances, but if you're pleasant to be around, it's not a problem.
HOWEVER: A person being forever stuck in a low-tier job *might* be a red flag. It's one thing to work at Walmart when times are tough or when you're young; It's another thing altogether to never manage to improve your career at all. If you're stuck in a low-tier job for your whole life, it might lead someone to wonder if you have an abrasive personality or some other problem preventing you from moving up.
I stress: It *might* be a red flag. There are many valid reasons why someone could choose to stay in the career entry-level for their whole lives.
Personally: my whole social circle is full of people who have, at the very least, left first base career-wise; teachers, engineers, project coordinators, mechanics, a few academics, arborists.. Each has higher education, or they've developed their skills beyond the mandatory schooling of their youth.
A low-tier job is NOT a problem or a turn-off. But a low-tier job may hint at the kind of person you're dealing with. A person who can't improve themselves or build relationships *is* a turn-off. And there's unfortunately some overlap there.
Yes, I think it helps a relationship in the long run if both parties have a similar level of drive and ambition... even if it is in art, or saving the world or something else not profitable.
I don't really care about her job, as long as she's happy about it (unless it's OnlyFans). I do care about her education and intellectual level, I would not date someone without a degree from uni.
Odd, so you don't care about her job and by extension, her level of income, but you insist she must have racked up a bunch of student debt? Okay man, whatever floats your boat.
You’d rather date someone with a uni degree who is a low earner with high student loans vs someone with no uni degree who makes $150k/year in their career and doesn’t have to pay back student loans?
I'm more concerned about why she wants to have a partner with a high income. If she's not satisfied with a partner working at Walmart, then why would their partner be?
I know that's now how it works as we still have traditional gender role stigma. Even though they are completely outdated since women perform much better in higher education, so it's a matter of time before men will have to date up and vice versa.
Your mother has a point - but there are plenty of cases where it won’t matter.
Some places where it might:
1. If the man has hopes of building a lifestyle that would require a dual high income cash flow. Lets say he desires to live in a five bedroom house in Los Angeles but it would be tight on his salary if not impossible. This could influence him.
2. Social interactions with his colleagues/ friends. I wouldn’t necessarily call is being embarrassing, but it could be awkward depending on his friend group.
3. What happens if you fall in love with someone who doesn’t make much money? It does limit your options to relying on a partner to put you into a desirable lifestyle.
No. I personally wouldn't care. I also wouldn't care if she had a high tier job. Some do care that they make less. Im going to live on my own feet anyway, so idc. Good for her.
I will say that not everything is a yes or no. Body builders prefer other body builders. A guy with a high tier job will aim for someone else who has one or a woman very young and gorgeous. Thats life unfortunately.
As I got older I realized that matters. It makes a difference in social norms and being able to have a partner that melds well with your family and friends.
I want to believe that, me as a guy, that I would date girls who are cashiers. On tinder and such I see many times sales, or DJ, or cashier. I still gladly swipe right if she is pretty and smiling and less than 50 miles for me.
I'm a software engineer/developer that's clearing 6 figures have my own house, and no debt.
With all that said my last four serious relationships were with established women who all had their masters degree.
Even now I'm going on my fourth date with a woman who's a doctor, and hoping it would turn into something real.
I don’t really care about a woman’s job, but I’m really attracted to smart competent women and there’s at least some correlation between that and her job. If she’s a professional it’s safe to assume she’s at least a bit smart, which isn’t always true at basic jobs. My last girlfriend was a zookeeper and it didn’t bother me at all. What did bother me was that she was very emotionally reactive about things she didn’t understand. If you’re emotionally stable, in somewhat decent shape, humble about things you don’t understand, and interested in something more than social media, TV, or “traveling” (aka going on vacation) you’ll easily be in the top 10% of the dating pool.
"a man & woman *can* have a loving relationship regardless of jobs
& though she does have a point, it’s very black & white."
There. You said it nearly perfectly.
Turned off, no. It wouldn't affect a one-night stand.
It is something considered for a serious relationship though, turned off isn't the right term for it.
I'd say yes and no. By and large I think men are significantly less picky than women about the jobs that their partner does. But, I don't completely disagree with your mom that a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc is far MORE likely to look for a woman that at least somewhat fits into a roughly similar socioeconomic bracket.
So it's not impossible that a venture capital fund manager would go for a woman that works at walmart, but I'd say it's far more likely they'd go for a girl who is a marketing coordinator or something like that because they're both in white-collar type professions even though there's usually gonna be a huge income delta there.
So I'd say she's probably not completely wrong but it also depends on where you're looking, i'd say. I do think that a dental hygenist probably does have a better chance of getting with a higher earning man than someone at walmart but it's also not completely out of the realm of possibility, so I don't think your mom is completely wrong but it's also not as hard and fast as she's making it sound.
Honestly, yeah. Though I don't consider myself the caliber of man your mom was talking about, I don't seriously date any woman without a college degree; that's my bare minimum. My partner is an engineer, and my ex before her was also an engineer. I've dated therapists, teachers, and physician assistants.
Not to say I won't casually date other women, but the relationship won't go any farther than that.
>Though there’s some truth, I also recognize that love is so much more than meeting at the same hierarchy.
In my opinion, there's so much more that goes into a successful relationship than love.
While I unfortunately think that people do care how their partner reflects on them, I think it's also more that you're more likely to find these types of people if you're running in the same circles or have a similar background. It's probably hard to build a relationship when one person works a white-collar job, and the other is doing shift work. I would never date some ivy league. upper class woman because that is not a group I belong to.
I do think your mom is correct, though I'm not sure if it's universal.
Even as a fully heterosexual man, women in general turn me off. I've been around, but I stopped dating totally 5 years ago, and I'm not going back. My need for love and touch will never again surpass my desire for peace and quiet and my absolute hate for fabricated drama. I sincerely wish everyone to find happiness and the love of their life. But it's not for me.
Hopefully you’re keeping the option open for a woman you actually enjoy spending time with. I agree I’d rather be alone than with the wrong woman but having a partner in life is pretty special.
Well in my country things changed. They call it the social elevator broke down. In the past qualification of the wife did not matter. Nowadays more and more people with an university degree expect the same from their wife. It has also something to do with divorce laws here. If the wife has a degree for a well paying job she must work and has much less rights for the husband’s money
Is your mom u/North-Syrup-2041?
Come to think of it, are you the same person? Seems pretty crazy you and your mom both use Reddit and post in the same sub reddits..
Personally I think you should find someone who matches what you are doing since your views on life and the value of money should be pretty similar then
I don't really care about a low tier job. But think of it this way. If I am an engineer at Google, I'm probably not going to have that much in common with a nail tech. The paths to get to those two places are just too different. Pretty woman was a good movie, doesn't really work that way in practice.
No, what they want out of a woman is one that will respect them, genuinely love them and work with them in the relationship, not one that's just gonna add stress to their day, make things more co llicated and is only interested in what he provides.
That woman could be the cashier at the corner store or the CEO of an entreprise and it wouldn't make a difference as long as they have those qualities.
Be your own man. Make your own money, be independent, have your own solid career that YOU can be proud of. As a woman especially, you should not expect to depend on anyone - especially a man. No adult should be dependent on anyone else to support them, you should know how to stand on your own. Especially as a woman because truly if shit hits the fan and you're on your ass, you have to know how to support yourself. That's a tale as old as time when it comes to women depending on men for finances. It will be so much harder for you to leave if your relationship is abusive or if you are in a bad or even unhappy situation. Finances are a massive reason that many women don't leave bad relationships. Do not set yourself up for this.
If you're out here just working some pitiful job for years unable to be independent, with no assets and accomplishments to show for it, make a change. Frankly its unattractive if a woman is working part time, still mooching off mommy and daddy, banking on finding a rich husband to support her. Its gold digging and lazy.
I think your mom has a point in terms of equal partnership. True equal partnership comes with no real financial disparity, as in you both make equal/similar amounts. You both have the same values, you both have similar ambitions and lifestyles. Those are qualities in an equal partnership. If you have a bum ass partner whose not pulling their weight financially and is constantly dependent on you, that's not an equal partnership. You have a dependent. And if shit hits the fan; either partner should be able to still comfortably afford the lifestyle/house/day to day that you have, so you wont lose your shirt if someone gets laid off.
Mamas got some points, and I think the one that stands out here is that don't expect something that you yourself don't bring to the table.
The job a person works does not make them more or less attractive IMO. I’d say passion, or at the very least caring about it and giving effort at your job is attractive though, regardless of what it is. Someone complaining about their job ALL. The time while not doing anything to improve their situation is a turn off though.
I think there are multiple archetypes but I just wrote down the 3 that I could think of.
Type 1 Guys - Career oriented Ambitious Guys looking for an active partner - I think what you will find is that if the guys is successful, family centered and is seriously looking for a partner, he will want someone that is at least a professional (has a career ahead of her).
Type 2 Guys - Career oriented Guys who want a stay at home wife - here the employment level doesn't matter since the expectation won't be for the partner to continue working post marriage.
Type 3 Guys - Less ambitious. Not career focused. Will not care about what you do, where you live, what your education is etc.
The point being, you will attract people that are like you, and I think what your mom is saying is that she would like you to attract more ambitious career oriented partner. However, that is your decision but that decision will impact that type of person you meet.
Why’s the conversation about how to impress a man. Your goal should be becoming financially independent then u decide whether you want a relationship or not along the way. If you don’t like where you’re at, I suggest learning a trade or enrolling in community college if you’re in the U.S. A real man won’t care about the woman’s profession only how she treats him and has shared values. Although I do admit it’s harder to find the man you want if you’re not in those social circles. You could be a lawyer or a doctor but a real pain in the butt, who wants that.
I think there are more woman out there, that have issues with a man working in a low tier job. I have friends who dumped their dates pretty quickly for the simple reason that they work in construction. Or any other blue collar job.
As long as people make enough money to care for themselves, and don't rely on their partner to feed them through, it really shouldn't matter. Provided that both also have a kinda similar lifestyle.
Most men don’t care how much you make or what your job is. They will care about you and want to learn about you, but most men will not see your job as a reflection of themselves or their value.
Are you a cool, hot, kind lawyer? Awesome. Are you a cool, hot, kind barista? Awesome.
What if I’m only cool and kind
Are you a lawyer?
You a cop?
Robo-cop
Robo-Pope
Fussin with the tussin
If they are a cop and you ask them they need to tell you.
My memory's a little fuzzy these days...
If she is and doesn't tell you, that means legally the relationship doesn't count.
That’s good enough for me. Awesome.
That’s good enough for me. Awesome.
What about a barrister?
..sliding down a banister, while wearing a fine wig?
i would prefer the barista over the lawyer tbh
Subjective what about finding whether you’re compatible with each other
I'll go on a bit of an opposite direction from the rest of the comments. It's not a turn off in the sense that I'll still be attracted regardless - but I will probably not pursue a serious relationship with someone who has no job prospects or financial stability
I think it’s more that I wouldn’t want to be with someone unmotivated and lacking any ambition. I don’t find that type attractive.
I think people tend to date within their own social class. So there is some truth to what your mom is saying.
This. It kinda baffles me how little people are seeming to get that. In my personal life and experience, I don't know anyone who has dated considerably outside of their "class" or income bracket. Poor people date other poor people, rich people other rich people, and middle class can have some room but usually the same. I Shocked a friend of mine when we first started talking because I said I would refuse to date a rich man. She was stunned because to her everyone wants a rich man. I said that I, and most people I knew, want someone who understands me. I want someone who knows what my life was like before and I simply will not find that from someone who was raised middle-class and above. My husband and I have a common ground there, because we grew up not only in the same town but in similar conditions. Even though we are not the same race, we both identified with being poor kids from the sticks. The thread is from the perspective that rich/high status people don't want to date "down" but that's a two-way street. I know lots of poor people who look down on people who work office jobs because it's not "real" work. Who were raised with an animosity/hostility, sometimes even a downright hatred, of rich people. From my perspective, someone who grew up privileged (financially) or who is out of touch with daily struggles of poverty is cringe/embarrassing.
I'm a lifelong office worker, and in the past I avoided dating service workers because they seemed to have a huge chip on their shoulder about office workers, and tell me I have nothing to be tired about after a long day at work
Lol tell me about it. I used to work at a gas station and often people would come in and "ask how are you?" To which my usual response would be "tired" because I have a sleep disorder. The usual response would be a scoff or eye roll like how can you be tired you're young/you don't work construction, outside, hard labor, etc. Like that's the only way you can be tired lol. I've since learned that "sleepy" is the more accurate word 😅 but the sentiment is the same. Apparently only people who work 12 hrs shifts in a factory or brick laying can be tired
You're asking this to a bunch of people who'd marry the first woman to smile at them. To go against the grain here, for me at least it is definitely a turn off. I think most of the men willing to date someone in a far lower job tier do it because they like the power dynamic it creates in the relationship. Any man looking for a more traditional relationship where he's the bread winner and she raises the kids is going to be ok with this dynamic, but these men also usually expect to be the "head of the household" and have the woman cater to him. And even if he isn't explicitly looking for this, he's not going to want to lower his lifestyle to stay within what's affordable to you. Its going to be a lot of him financially supporting you so you can live up to the standard he's at. This can begin with no bad intent, but even subconsciously this can create a power imbalance. Personally Im looking for someone to be my equal in a relationship and that's much easier to do when there's less of an income discrepancy. Now I'm not looking for it to be an exact match, but I'd have my bar, no offense, higher than a job I could get when I was still in high school. I think it would be easier if you were at a similar income when you started dating and then later one party had a big jump in income because you have the time to establish the relationship dynamic before there's the discrepancy. In short, I don't think your mom's perspective is universal, but I think its going to be difficult (not impossible) to find a man with a significantly higher income who will treat you as an equal.
THANK YOU. surprised I had to scroll this far. im moderately successful by traditional measures. I work in a challenging industry and make over six figures, only adding that to give some context to my opinion. job absolutely does matter. it's not an immediate "no" to a cashier, but someone who is a working professional, and more my equal (or greater) has qualities that I find attractive (ambitious, hardworking, etc.). it is not about being ashamed. I would not be ashamed to date someone who is a cashier. so many replies here I get the sense are coming from people who would say yes to anything that breathes, or aren't really as successful as they think. I'm sure opinions vary, but from my experience it is true that generally professionals prefer to date other professionals. there is just more in common there.
If cashiers made 90k a year would that change things? Is it the job that's the turn off or the low pay? Or let's switch the job. Let's say a bathroom attendant at some swanky place that makes 150k in tips and salary. I'm asking because I dont know how I feel about it. Like I think it's the job but I only think that because of how much importance it's put on us from such a young age.
I’m a woman but I think it’s the money. Companies don’t generally pay people a lot of money to do things that are super entry level and anyone can do. If you’re an adult and your long term plan is to work a job high schoolers are qualified to work then not only are you setting your family/partner up for potential unnecessary financial stress but you are also demonstrating a strong lack of motivation or care to make something better of yourself. Maybe you enjoy an amazing work life balance and appreciate simple things in life, I’m sure there are merits to working in a low paying job and tbh some of these people are probably working harder than your average professional so I’m not trying to judge. But then your ideals might not be in line with a high earner. But instead of putting her down I think OPs mom should be trying to convey that it is not a good idea to rely on someone else financially and that a woman or man should be independent enough to support themselves and escape from an abusive relationship should it ever come to that.
🎯
it's both, really.
If they have the intelligence and capabilities of someone who’s able to get a job that requires a degree, sure. But the reality is there’s bigger differences between the majority of cashiers and the majority of doctors than just an income gap.
It's not the job for me. It's the education and income. If you make 10k a year that's an issue. If you have a just a GED that's an issue. If you pull in 70k doing a brainless job but you have a good education and think deeply about things I'm fine with that. You're not defined by your job.
For me it’s more about what the job actually is. I’d rather marry an English professor making 100k than someone someone in sales making 150k But I have no interest marrying someone whose career abilities are working at Walmart unless that’s a temporary gig while obtaining XYZ degree/career
I had a similar reply before seeing your post. This was my first thought as well. There are a lot of insecure men that need to feel they have more power in a relationship and think having all the money will provide them that so they actively look for someone they can own. It may not be fair but for me, someone that is more my equal professionally is perceived as having a higher level of emotional and intellectual maturity and someone that I can more easily identify and share experiences with. That doesn't mean its true but there is comfort there for better or worse. It also doesn't mean I wouldn't date the walmart cashier but I don't know how that interaction would happen that would lead me to meeting that person and engaging with them in a way that would allow me to learn about them as I much more likely to meet someone close to my field of work or shares in a hobby I like that might require a certain amount of disposable income not grated to someone with a lower level job.
I was going to type out a reply until I saw this. My wife and I make almost exactly the same amount, both doctorates, and there's little chance I would ever want to be with someone making substantially less. Not to say that high earning = intelligent partner, but they're more likely to be my partner and equal.
This needs to be higher. And to add my own preference: I don’t care specifically about the job or income, but if it’s not a great career, what are you doing to better yourself for the future? I was previously married to a woman that made less than 1/3 of what I make (which was basically the maximum for her position), in a job that had opportunity for growth but only with additional education. She had absolutely no interest in going back to school, and no interest in doing anything to improve herself. Years later she’s probably still doing the same thing. The woman I’m engaged to now is intelligent and driven. Two master’s degrees under her belt and constantly learning. She has been promoted multiple times in the last couple of years, reached the 6-figure threshold, and at this rate will probably pass me in salary within a year. I had no idea what I was missing when I was with my ex. The way she was content to just coast through life making barely enough to scrape by and relying on her partner for the rest, it was something I kind of just accepted because it was nothing compared to her other terrible traits. But now that I’ve experienced what it’s like to have someone that I feel on equal footing with mentally and emotionally, it’s incredible.
yes, this thread is a pathetic statement of people with no standards
I think there are lots of ways that "family income" and the future trajectory of that income can negatively affect two people building a life together. If your financial goals and lifestyle aspirations / ambitions aren't aligned, it may eventually lead to resentment - someone feeling they're at the wrong end of the power dynamic you describe but also the higher earner could feel "held back". I think it's probably one of those topics that should be discussed but that often goes undiscussed, particularly through "courtship".
The only real response. I would want my wife around the same level of job as me. My wife and my are both in HR. If she suddenly only worked a part-time job making half of what she makes now it would be upsetting. Being in a relationship is already hard work. Adding inequality in job status only makes things more difficult, especially if there are financial issues that arise.
Eh, for me it's more about if they're happy and passionate about what they do or if they're actively working towards those goals. Let's say if I'm making 200k a year my partners dream was to be a barista or someshit and she absolutely loved it than I really couldn't care less what she does.
I agree. It is not even so much that the job and the money are the problem, it is a life style. I don't make a lot of money, and I don't care what jobs people I date work, but I also wouldn't date someone who is making millions, as their life style and very likely their values would clash with mine. OP should look at their mums comments from another perspective - why go for "successful" high earners when there are men with lower end jobs available? A honest answer to this question should hint at what "men generally want".
Same for me. I have a university degree and have an alright salary. I wouldn't be 100% opposed to being with someone with a "low tier" job, but it would be a big negative. I want my partner to be an equal. I want us to discuss stuff, including spending money, on equal footing.
That was very well said. A lot of people should read your perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Theres a big difference in my and my wifes earnings. I wouldnt say I want a "traditional" household. (My wife does DIY, my mum was a welder!). I've always said I want a partner, not a passenger. My wife would be disappointed in me if I judged her by her pay packet, and the reverse is true.
I want a girl who...well come to think of it, thats it. A girl. And im even flexible on that to a degree.
Lmfao. That’s rough buddy.
All good, i dont leave the house so its on me.
I’m sure Amazon will start a bride delivery service at some point.
His names diaperfluid what do you expect 🤣
That cuts out half the population
Exactly. Its why im very loose on the word "girl". Give me the rock in a wig and il be good
Honestly my brother is the same except he's 33 lol.hes happy though.
Time to get the ol barrel out again I see
Science really has come a long way tbf bro
Checks out. I've never had a crush on a man, but if I did it would have been fine.
How dare you to have such high demands 🤬🤬
So you don't have to meet accidentally at Citibank?
For me, it's not about the money (as long as they don't have an expensive taste and expect me to cover for it). But I am a scientist myself, I like learning new things and having conversations about my work, or about science in general. I would like to have a partner who finds this interesting. Otherwise, we will both bore each other. So I am biased in favour of university educated women. Otherwise, it is attractive if people have ambition and are motivated to learn something and become good at it. It's not about the money, I could see myself dating someone who works for a charity and gets fulfilment from that. But not with a cashier, who is happy with doing just that for her whole life, I think we just would not vibe.
I imagine it depends on the man. I will say, I work in the kind of field where spouses/partners are often invited to professional social events. It's an educated, well paid field. Among the men, I would say more than half the SOs were on a similar level professionally. Even when the SO is in a lesser-educated or lesser-paid job, it's still something that would be considered "respectable" or something that someone does because they love it. For example, teacher, social worker, yoga instructor. Any job that's close to "the help" would be looked down upon... maid, cashier, delivery person... I've never met a SO with a job like this. I'm not saying this is right or wrong or even normal, it's just what I've seen.
I mean... I live in Turkey,economy is so fucked up here right now so it would be pretty hard to live with someone that doesn't even have an average salary as I am myself probably not gonna have a job with very high salary.(still a student) But even if I were to live in a country with good,or at least normal, economy, i would still prefer that my wife has a university diploma regardless of the discipline she studied, and earns at least a bit below average salary.But not beacuse of the reputation, I just think that getting a college education in some domain different than your partner would be fun to talk about and could able us to show each other new perspectives maybe.
I'll give you some solace... I'm in Canada, working with a university degree in computer science as an engineer. I can't afford a 1 bedroom apartment to rent (not even a run down one with roaches and rats and in the worst imaginable neighborhoods.
I mean…I don’t wanna downplay your problems dude but literally more than half of the population of Turkey literally give their left leg to be in your situation.
If a woman is attractive, we really don’t care if they don’t make much cash
Yeah, I crush on a couple of cashiers at my Trader Joe's.
There are some damn good looking women working at my local TJ's. I get it for sure LOL
100%. Am I good enough for them? No.
I don't care how much money someone makes, but I care about intelligence and ambition.
intelligence and ambition are generally correlated to career.
Those tend to correlate to a “type” of job you have, not always of course but there is definitely a correlation there
I’m married to a guy who makes six figures and I work in retail. He didn’t care. And he admitted it was cause of my looks.
On the flip side, my wife makes six figures and I make five and do all the cooking. Just find whatever works for you
[удалено]
Or one partner with a more 'chill' career could allow the other to work harder by taking care of stuff at home. My wife was a teacher. We both have Master's Degrees and she's definitely more intelligent than I am but she's passionate about teaching and getting off at 3pm and having summer's off worked out amazing for our family. I viewed all of our income as 'family income' because I couldn't put the time in my career without her help.
Enjoy that privilege.
Despite the hype of feminism this is how things work A LOT of the time if a woman is VERY attractive, not always, but often. I’m not supporting or putting it down, I’m just saying this is often how it works in real life as opposed to internet life. Now I’ll get the posts from 10’s who work oil rig and construction jobs for 16 hours a day. I know how Reddit works.
I've worked both of those jobs. While you would occasionally see a woman working, I never met one I would call a 10. I fucked cuter guys in prison
Ok, you killed me with that last line Lol!
Statistics say otherwise. People usually marry within the same social class.
That’s just due to who you hang out with socially. Rich people hang with predominantly other rich people; middle class with middle class; and poor with poor. The barista may be cute, but you aren’t as likely to view her as even an option if you hang out at the country club every weekend.
That most likely is due to social circles. Correlation is not causation, necessarily.
We? Sorry bro. We are not the same.
Speak for yourself dawg
Yeah, I wanted a woman who WANTED me, not one who NEEDED me. I find value in a person who can do difficult things, has been stressed out and knows how to deal with those things because I have to do those things too. My dating history has been optometrist, pharmacist, dentist, and now I’m engaged to an optometrist. While I have dated all sorts of women, I did find a better connection with the aforementioned
Even if a guy makes decent money I can imagine being the sole breadwinner is quite stressful. I wouldn’t mind working part time and staying home with the kids more but I never wanted to be a SAHM and I imagine like I said that’s quite stressful for the sole breadwinner anyways.
The fuck ? I'd say I care MORE about her financial stability than her fucking looks. Pretty girls are everywhere. You ain't get no free pass at life cause you look good sugar free. What did Mac Dre say? No dough hoe? You know I say no.
Men don't typically think like women when it comes to situations like this. Attractive? Loyal? Not promiscuous? Wants (or doesnt) want a family? These are the things we care about. If I bring a new beautiful woman to a gathering the guys don't say... "Oh but how much does she make?" "gross, she's a waitress?" We are not women and thinking as your mother does will not get you far.
Men are also not a monolith, and some hetero men absolutely care about their partner's job/income. A partner who can earn a decent living is definitely very important to me. They don't have to be be a high-earner by any means, but they should be able to bring something to the table financially.
Titles/status doesn't directly translate to more money. Someone delivering mail earns more than most but sitting in an office for less money is still seen as better status. I think most guys don't care about the title, but will care that money is coming in.
Really? Here if you say you work for the postal service people are impressed and all say it’s a very good job.
But women are much more unlikely to marry below their level than men. Of all the female doctors I know, they’re almost all married to doctors, lawyers or engineers. Quite a few male doctors will marry a nurse, you just never see the reversed.
I would argue those who don"t care outnumber those who do by a large margin.
You are the exception to the rule. Majority of men dont care about money with a woman
More than just the financial aspect (which I do believe is important), being in similar career environments also allows a the other person to be relatable. Understanding what your partner is going through, the problems they face and being able to solve them as a team is something I value. As a man who is making 6 figures, I always looked for "goalmate" that could translate into a "soulmate".
That being said, you typically see people higher up together because one person opens a door for the other. So if you’re a barista but want to go to college to do something else your SO most likely will be happy to help you get into college. It has nothing to do with wanting a person with a specific job, it just so happens money opens doors.
It's not just that, it's also simply that you can't really make a relationship without proximity. Being around high status people means you have more chance at dating one of them, sounds stupid but it's pretty relevant.
This is more because college graduates (if you proxy college graduate for a "white collar" job), marry other college graduates at a much higher level. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/15/college-marriage-facebook/2989039/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/15/college-marriage-facebook/2989039/) 28% of married college graduates attended the same college as their spouse [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/college-friends-keep-getting-married-its-bad-news-for-your-travel-budget-and-inequality/](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/college-friends-keep-getting-married-its-bad-news-for-your-travel-budget-and-inequality/) "Well-educated people tend to marry each other, a process with the unromantic label of “assortative mating.” One in ten marriages (9 percent) are now between two college graduates. Another 6 percent are between a couple where both have a post-graduate degree."
You're absoulutely right, but I'm pretty sure male doctors are still more open to marry a female nurse than the other way around.
Its more like men who don't have assets, income, or aspirations don't care
In my early 20s I didn't care at all because I lived in the moment. When I decided to settle down, I broke up with my ex because she was a huge spender and we weren't on the same page financially. Dating after her, their career and being money wise was just as if not more important than looks. I grew up poor and knew I didn't want to live that way. I don't make huge bank and wasn't looking for a sugar mama, but needed someone who also had a decent career so we can live a comfortable middle class life. I passed on a lot of potential suitable partners.
[удалено]
>because she was a huge spender tbf I suspect you probably would have parted ways with her even if she did make good money, because expensive taste isn't sustainable unless you are loaded or want to work yourself into the grave.
[удалено]
I grew up comfortably and want my kids to do the same. Also my ego would get hurt if i had to pay out a huge amount in divorce and alimony etc. that’s why I want someone earning a good amount too. So that worst case, my kids are still taken care of. Kindness and emotional and overall stability and health is more important than their intelligence, career, money, family wealth, but those factors do matter. I wouldn’t want my finances or career to be what is creating the desire to date, have kids etc, and the butterflies and feelings on her end. Mutual physical attraction is so important, even harder to align career/financial situations and goals
I'm gonna have to disagree, it definitely matters. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but everything in life is somewhat transactional and love is no exception. If you don't contribute as much in money, then you'll have to make up for it in other ways, and that means actually being better than him in those categories, not just equal. So, it's not impossible for it to work but you are definitely playing with slanted odds if you want to marry a man that makes a lot of money and you don't.
I think there are more important determining factors. As long as you don’t have to completely rely on me, have a mind and some sort of plan, I don’t see the issue.
The biggest issue with someone working a day job Mon-Fri dating someone in the service industry is the incompatible schedules. It's really hard to spend quality time when one is off during evenings qnd weekends and the other works at those times.
Men dont look at what or care for a smart rich girl.
I want someone who is capable of being my equal. There will always be a certain dynamic of control if the woman (or man) is not at least in a similar economic bracket. I am 100% turned on by my partners success. She is also attractive, loyal, and agrees with my thoughts on children and family. I think by saying men typically don’t care is not accurate. Any man that knows what he is worth is going to find someone on his level. If not then he probably doesn’t view himself that positively.
Statistically most people marry within their tax brackets. So take that info as you want
I genuinely can’t believe this comment section lol - I feel like most people replying are not the kind of guys OP’s mom is talking about (ie below 6 figure earners hypothesizing how they *would* behave if they happened to earn that much). tbh I’m with the mom on this one
I think so too! The men who are commenting are likely not highly successful lawyers and doctors. I think if a man is successful because he values education he would want an educated woman. Also a good/decent career signals certain values.
Educated professional married to another educated professional, for me it’s about ambition and drive. If I met someone who didn’t make much money but was driven, passionate, curious, and ambitious - someone with a dream and the wherewithal to pursue it - I can work with that. If they just don’t give a fuck and want to work hourly shit jobs forever and spend their free time shoveling tripe into their eyeballs, pass.
Tbh real talk men generally don’t care how much a women makes if ANYTHING there are probably more men that would prefer to date down then up and that in of itself is a little problematic but it’s the reality. Men having a shitty job is a much bigger deal dating wise.
You are so right. Women tend to judge men way more on there jobs then us guys do with women.
As a guy I can say I have never not dated a woman due to her job. As long as she is doing something I don't really think about it. I am way more interested in who she is as a person. Are we compatible? Is she fun to be with? Things like that.
Just because you have an unequal level job now doesn't mean it will always be this way. For example. When my now spouse and I started dating. I worked as a computer technician making just above minimum wage. She worked in retail. Nearly 25 years later I'm an IT architect making a comfortable living. My spouse has done several jobs. Retail, Retail Management, Project Manager, payroll, Executive Assistant. She got sick a couple years ago and hasn't been well enough to work so she had been semi-retired. She's been volunteering at a dog shelter. But recently she's decided she'd like to see if she's well enough to join the workforce again so just as a test she's working part time in retail. But now things are unequal based on that logic I need to divorce my spouse? Heck no not happening. Being married is being a part of the team everyone needs to contribute. But you both don't have to make the exact same contribution nor does the contribution need to be fiscal. Perhaps one prefers to cook, the other likes to garden or do home improvements. You're a team you have goals to push towards. Just divide up the tasks and assign them to each other and get at it. Now if you and your potential partner don't have the same goals or morals etc. Then that's completely different. But if you're a Doctor and your potential spouse is a barista. If you love each other and what you're doing is safe and legal then that's where people should STFU. It's none of their business.
I think your mom is half right, half wrong. She is wrong for believing a difference in income should determine your prospects. You should find love regardless of such factors. That being said, differences in income often lead to differences in lifestyle. Lifestyle differences can be a factor that excludes compatibility. So your mom is focusing on the wrong factor.
The answer to this is easy: Some men will care, others won't. Everyone's different.
You mother is 100% delulu and procets her views on men. In reality, some care, some don't.
Statistically though, it's probably true that you don't often see long-lasting marriages of say, a university professor and a janitor (regardless of who's the man and who's the woman). Simply because it's harder to connect when people live very different lives. But it can happen.
Exactly. It's not a matter of status but a matter of social circle
True, but also which successful attractive men she is going to be meeting working at Walmart? I hope OP is a 10 or an amazing cook or something if she wants to date up.
The vast majority of couples marry within a similar salary range and social class. You can't say "men don't care" when the vast majority do. You just aren't thinking about it correctly. Yeah, assuming she's at least average, most white collar men would fuck her. If she's average, most white collar men would date her. But *marry?* That's a totally different question. No one making 100k a year wants to marry a walmart worker unless they are much older and looking for a target to control.
Your reasonable analysis falls on deaf ears. These people would date anything with a pulse at this point.
Women who are alone think like that. Aka her mom
Maybe. Bitter ones are indeed like that.
I’ve always found it funny that men and women who have been single for a long time give the most long winded commentary regarding relationships.
People in happy relationships arent constantly trying to figure out where their last 10 dates went wrong, They're trying to figure out what small bullshit is causing today’s resentment
[удалено]
Value of.. being aware financially? That is not a bad thing.
Yup. Some care about it as they associate it wil certwin traits like manners and morality.
I would be turned off by a woman who cares a great deal about a man's income but little about producing her own. Because in my eyes that's hypocrisy. It's less of a concern if the woman truly isn't concerned about money from either person. Because then it is not unfair.
It wouldn’t be bad if your young maybe but after years and years of living the same life, having no achievements, no hobbies , or a good career can be off putting to motivated men or women. Its not to say you can find anyone but if your not going to be successful moneywise or in anything at all it would be boring to stick around especially if you yourself have lots going on
"years and years of living the same life, having no achievements, no hobbies , or a good career"-- wtf are 'hobbies' doing in the middle of this and why are you wrapping up all this stuff when 'a good job' was the point? Achievements, hobbies and career are not all connected, and who the hell doesn't have hobbies?
That’s what hobbies are for 🥰 we had fun, played, loved, traveled, worked through crisis after crisis, together. Built her up, she built me up. When we realised it won’t be easy and fast for her to improve, we concentrated on my career and her supporting me more for a while. We reflect a lot about ourselves, and our relationship. Learned lots of things that went wrong in our past, still working on that actually. After 17 years we took the path to parenthood, when our son was born last year. My wife flourishes in the mother role, I never loved her more. Our son is a blessing. It’s still unclear if she will ever be able to work, but we go one step at a time. With the child we have a couple years before we even have to think about it. And thanks to the improvements in my career I have a stable good paying job that can support us 3 comfortably.
The comment *mentions* “no hobbies.” And you come in, “that’s what hobbies are for.” 😬
While I don't think it's the amount earned that is the biggest deal, I do think there is a lifestyle inconsistency between hourly/shift working and salaried positions. If you don't have a job where your hours are constantly changing and it's like pulling teeth to plan more than a week ahead it can be really tough to date someone like that. You can't make consistent plans and/or plan for extended vacations in advance. Most salaried people I know (even lower paid ones) are able to easily make plans and not flake on them because their schedule lets them know when they can be available. Friends I know who work shift jobs are basically at the mercy of their manager for when they get free time and often struggle to plan for more than a 3 day vacation because of poor job security.
Depends on the man. That's definitely not a universal truth. Plenty of very wealthy men who prefer stay-at-home spouses. I do agree that you see a lot of lawyers married to other lawyers and doctors to doctors but I think it has more to so with them running in the same circles and more likely to meet and form a relationship. I work in Healthcare and have seen plenty of doctors married to nurses, techs, clerks, assistants. Isn't their role in Healthcare so much as they have the physical location of the hospital in common and some common ground understanding one another's occupation.
Stay at home spouse is different than a walmart worker. Id rather my wife stay at home than make mimum wage at walmart.
Everyone in the comments is saying no but statistically speaking, couples tend to date/marry around the same income levels.
Exactly my thought as I scrolled through this. Doctors, lawyers, MBAs and engineers tend to marry doctors, lawyers, MBAs and engineers. There are a lot of reasons beyond the partner’s income. Most people I know like this met their spouse during their postgraduate education. I fall in that category, met my wife in law school. The time when you’re going through your professional degree coincides with when people usually pair up for marriage. There’s also selection for intelligence, drive, and generally having your shit together. A professional career tends to mean you have all that. Being able to relate about politics and world events is also important and tends to skew similarly among similarly situations professionals
Same. My fiancé works in cybersecurity and I work under the government auditing scope with a cybersecurity background. My friend is an OR nurse dating an RN, etc etc. I think this thread (like a lot of Reddit) is filled with kids with no life experience speaking hypothetically and single lonely men that feel like they’ll “take” any woman that looks their way.
I totally agree. Has to be Reddit’s demographics at work
Short answer: Not directly. I can only speak to my experience and the anecdotal experience of my male acquaintances. I'm going to say "men" from now on for simplicity's sake, but I'm not a psychologist. My perspective is limited, and I'm not claiming to speak with authority. Men tend to rate women on a single axis that takes into account many aspects of her situation. Things like beauty, personality, career path, and emotional maturity (or baggage), among many other things, all get grouped into a figurative pile in our brains and we decide if we're attracted/attached to you. We'll tolerate a terrible personality if you're hot enough. We'll commit our whole lives to your happiness if you bring us joy and peace, even if you have a "low-tier" job and you're not the most attractive woman in town. We'll probably tolerate some personality flaws if you contribute to our stability with a high-paying job, but we'll equally tolerate unemployment if you're pleasant to be around. Every individual values these things differently, but all of these things go into one pile, and a man decides if a given woman is worth the effort of maintaining a relationship. SO: A "low-tier job" is not directly a turn-off. A low tier job MIGHT mean we have little common ground in careers and finances, but if you're pleasant to be around, it's not a problem. HOWEVER: A person being forever stuck in a low-tier job *might* be a red flag. It's one thing to work at Walmart when times are tough or when you're young; It's another thing altogether to never manage to improve your career at all. If you're stuck in a low-tier job for your whole life, it might lead someone to wonder if you have an abrasive personality or some other problem preventing you from moving up. I stress: It *might* be a red flag. There are many valid reasons why someone could choose to stay in the career entry-level for their whole lives. Personally: my whole social circle is full of people who have, at the very least, left first base career-wise; teachers, engineers, project coordinators, mechanics, a few academics, arborists.. Each has higher education, or they've developed their skills beyond the mandatory schooling of their youth. A low-tier job is NOT a problem or a turn-off. But a low-tier job may hint at the kind of person you're dealing with. A person who can't improve themselves or build relationships *is* a turn-off. And there's unfortunately some overlap there.
Yes, I think it helps a relationship in the long run if both parties have a similar level of drive and ambition... even if it is in art, or saving the world or something else not profitable.
Yes, doctors usually don\`t marry cleaning service workers ;)
Nah, they just sleep with them when their wives and/or husbands are at work 😅
No
No.
I would think for the most part, no. Wonder how this applies to what women think of men in lower positions.
People get along better with people who live similar lives. It has nothing to do with being turned off at a job
Humans are across a VAST and seemingly infinite spectrum. Some men care about these things, others don't.
I don't really care about her job, as long as she's happy about it (unless it's OnlyFans). I do care about her education and intellectual level, I would not date someone without a degree from uni.
Odd, so you don't care about her job and by extension, her level of income, but you insist she must have racked up a bunch of student debt? Okay man, whatever floats your boat.
You’d rather date someone with a uni degree who is a low earner with high student loans vs someone with no uni degree who makes $150k/year in their career and doesn’t have to pay back student loans?
I'm more concerned about why she wants to have a partner with a high income. If she's not satisfied with a partner working at Walmart, then why would their partner be? I know that's now how it works as we still have traditional gender role stigma. Even though they are completely outdated since women perform much better in higher education, so it's a matter of time before men will have to date up and vice versa.
Your mother has a point - but there are plenty of cases where it won’t matter. Some places where it might: 1. If the man has hopes of building a lifestyle that would require a dual high income cash flow. Lets say he desires to live in a five bedroom house in Los Angeles but it would be tight on his salary if not impossible. This could influence him. 2. Social interactions with his colleagues/ friends. I wouldn’t necessarily call is being embarrassing, but it could be awkward depending on his friend group. 3. What happens if you fall in love with someone who doesn’t make much money? It does limit your options to relying on a partner to put you into a desirable lifestyle.
You’re thinking of what bothers WOMEN, Not men. We don’t care.
No. I personally wouldn't care. I also wouldn't care if she had a high tier job. Some do care that they make less. Im going to live on my own feet anyway, so idc. Good for her. I will say that not everything is a yes or no. Body builders prefer other body builders. A guy with a high tier job will aim for someone else who has one or a woman very young and gorgeous. Thats life unfortunately.
As I got older I realized that matters. It makes a difference in social norms and being able to have a partner that melds well with your family and friends.
I want to believe that, me as a guy, that I would date girls who are cashiers. On tinder and such I see many times sales, or DJ, or cashier. I still gladly swipe right if she is pretty and smiling and less than 50 miles for me. I'm a software engineer/developer that's clearing 6 figures have my own house, and no debt. With all that said my last four serious relationships were with established women who all had their masters degree. Even now I'm going on my fourth date with a woman who's a doctor, and hoping it would turn into something real.
True to some extent but not 100%. The personality and attitude of the woman is far more important.
I don’t really care about a woman’s job, but I’m really attracted to smart competent women and there’s at least some correlation between that and her job. If she’s a professional it’s safe to assume she’s at least a bit smart, which isn’t always true at basic jobs. My last girlfriend was a zookeeper and it didn’t bother me at all. What did bother me was that she was very emotionally reactive about things she didn’t understand. If you’re emotionally stable, in somewhat decent shape, humble about things you don’t understand, and interested in something more than social media, TV, or “traveling” (aka going on vacation) you’ll easily be in the top 10% of the dating pool.
The issue is compatibility.
"a man & woman *can* have a loving relationship regardless of jobs & though she does have a point, it’s very black & white." There. You said it nearly perfectly.
Turned off, no. It wouldn't affect a one-night stand. It is something considered for a serious relationship though, turned off isn't the right term for it.
I'd say yes and no. By and large I think men are significantly less picky than women about the jobs that their partner does. But, I don't completely disagree with your mom that a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc is far MORE likely to look for a woman that at least somewhat fits into a roughly similar socioeconomic bracket. So it's not impossible that a venture capital fund manager would go for a woman that works at walmart, but I'd say it's far more likely they'd go for a girl who is a marketing coordinator or something like that because they're both in white-collar type professions even though there's usually gonna be a huge income delta there. So I'd say she's probably not completely wrong but it also depends on where you're looking, i'd say. I do think that a dental hygenist probably does have a better chance of getting with a higher earning man than someone at walmart but it's also not completely out of the realm of possibility, so I don't think your mom is completely wrong but it's also not as hard and fast as she's making it sound.
Someone with a good heart is a winner. Who cares what they do.
It's the opposite for me. I would rather date a grocery store clerk than an engineer and I am an engineer.
Thats dumb, most men are looking for woman that is attractive to them, paycheck is secondary. Different story when you reverse it tho.
Lawyer married a bartender, so no.
Honestly, yeah. Though I don't consider myself the caliber of man your mom was talking about, I don't seriously date any woman without a college degree; that's my bare minimum. My partner is an engineer, and my ex before her was also an engineer. I've dated therapists, teachers, and physician assistants. Not to say I won't casually date other women, but the relationship won't go any farther than that. >Though there’s some truth, I also recognize that love is so much more than meeting at the same hierarchy. In my opinion, there's so much more that goes into a successful relationship than love. While I unfortunately think that people do care how their partner reflects on them, I think it's also more that you're more likely to find these types of people if you're running in the same circles or have a similar background. It's probably hard to build a relationship when one person works a white-collar job, and the other is doing shift work. I would never date some ivy league. upper class woman because that is not a group I belong to. I do think your mom is correct, though I'm not sure if it's universal.
Most men don't care about what job the woman has. I think I can speak for most of us that we just want to be loved.
Even as a fully heterosexual man, women in general turn me off. I've been around, but I stopped dating totally 5 years ago, and I'm not going back. My need for love and touch will never again surpass my desire for peace and quiet and my absolute hate for fabricated drama. I sincerely wish everyone to find happiness and the love of their life. But it's not for me.
Hopefully you’re keeping the option open for a woman you actually enjoy spending time with. I agree I’d rather be alone than with the wrong woman but having a partner in life is pretty special.
Don't pass up on something good when it comes your way tho
Tbh dude it sounds like the problem is you if all the women you've met are like that
Well in my country things changed. They call it the social elevator broke down. In the past qualification of the wife did not matter. Nowadays more and more people with an university degree expect the same from their wife. It has also something to do with divorce laws here. If the wife has a degree for a well paying job she must work and has much less rights for the husband’s money
This would be an interesting question on the lawyers sub
Is your mom u/North-Syrup-2041? Come to think of it, are you the same person? Seems pretty crazy you and your mom both use Reddit and post in the same sub reddits..
Personally I think you should find someone who matches what you are doing since your views on life and the value of money should be pretty similar then
I don't really care about a low tier job. But think of it this way. If I am an engineer at Google, I'm probably not going to have that much in common with a nail tech. The paths to get to those two places are just too different. Pretty woman was a good movie, doesn't really work that way in practice.
No, what they want out of a woman is one that will respect them, genuinely love them and work with them in the relationship, not one that's just gonna add stress to their day, make things more co llicated and is only interested in what he provides. That woman could be the cashier at the corner store or the CEO of an entreprise and it wouldn't make a difference as long as they have those qualities.
Be your own man. Make your own money, be independent, have your own solid career that YOU can be proud of. As a woman especially, you should not expect to depend on anyone - especially a man. No adult should be dependent on anyone else to support them, you should know how to stand on your own. Especially as a woman because truly if shit hits the fan and you're on your ass, you have to know how to support yourself. That's a tale as old as time when it comes to women depending on men for finances. It will be so much harder for you to leave if your relationship is abusive or if you are in a bad or even unhappy situation. Finances are a massive reason that many women don't leave bad relationships. Do not set yourself up for this. If you're out here just working some pitiful job for years unable to be independent, with no assets and accomplishments to show for it, make a change. Frankly its unattractive if a woman is working part time, still mooching off mommy and daddy, banking on finding a rich husband to support her. Its gold digging and lazy. I think your mom has a point in terms of equal partnership. True equal partnership comes with no real financial disparity, as in you both make equal/similar amounts. You both have the same values, you both have similar ambitions and lifestyles. Those are qualities in an equal partnership. If you have a bum ass partner whose not pulling their weight financially and is constantly dependent on you, that's not an equal partnership. You have a dependent. And if shit hits the fan; either partner should be able to still comfortably afford the lifestyle/house/day to day that you have, so you wont lose your shirt if someone gets laid off. Mamas got some points, and I think the one that stands out here is that don't expect something that you yourself don't bring to the table.
Disagree with your mom and I agree with Jerry Seinfeld in this video. https://youtu.be/IrLtHatB6IU?si=fN6hMCtfFDfOrCk3
I couldn't care less if a woman has a low tier, an average tier or a high tier job.
I make 6 figs. My wife is a kennel assistant. She likes it and I like her.
I don't think men care as much about a woman's career as women do about a man's. My 2 cents based on my experience.
I don't care about them having a low tier job. I'd just be happy they atleast have one.
The job a person works does not make them more or less attractive IMO. I’d say passion, or at the very least caring about it and giving effort at your job is attractive though, regardless of what it is. Someone complaining about their job ALL. The time while not doing anything to improve their situation is a turn off though.
I think there are multiple archetypes but I just wrote down the 3 that I could think of. Type 1 Guys - Career oriented Ambitious Guys looking for an active partner - I think what you will find is that if the guys is successful, family centered and is seriously looking for a partner, he will want someone that is at least a professional (has a career ahead of her). Type 2 Guys - Career oriented Guys who want a stay at home wife - here the employment level doesn't matter since the expectation won't be for the partner to continue working post marriage. Type 3 Guys - Less ambitious. Not career focused. Will not care about what you do, where you live, what your education is etc. The point being, you will attract people that are like you, and I think what your mom is saying is that she would like you to attract more ambitious career oriented partner. However, that is your decision but that decision will impact that type of person you meet.
Why’s the conversation about how to impress a man. Your goal should be becoming financially independent then u decide whether you want a relationship or not along the way. If you don’t like where you’re at, I suggest learning a trade or enrolling in community college if you’re in the U.S. A real man won’t care about the woman’s profession only how she treats him and has shared values. Although I do admit it’s harder to find the man you want if you’re not in those social circles. You could be a lawyer or a doctor but a real pain in the butt, who wants that.
Literally doesn't matter to me at all
None of that shit matters. Only to people who are married to their job
men are not a hive mind. some do. some don’t. based on this thread, however, I think it’s safe to assume most redditors don’t care in the slightest.
Are you hot? If so doesn’t matter
Those kind of men want props not real wives. Your mom sounds like a bitch.
I think there are more woman out there, that have issues with a man working in a low tier job. I have friends who dumped their dates pretty quickly for the simple reason that they work in construction. Or any other blue collar job. As long as people make enough money to care for themselves, and don't rely on their partner to feed them through, it really shouldn't matter. Provided that both also have a kinda similar lifestyle.
Men don’t care about women’s careers you could work in McDonald’s if they find you funny charming kind and beautiful they’d move mountains for you
Most men don’t care how much you make or what your job is. They will care about you and want to learn about you, but most men will not see your job as a reflection of themselves or their value.