Reminder: when they last performed these urine tests many who tested positive got taken to the station and offered deals if they gave up their dealers (usually lower fine, shorter detention, still often no visa renewal or deportation). this subreddit was full with comments from folks who had gone through that.
cops also went through their phones and would visit the ten or so most recent contacts. there were a lot of people sleeping on couches of friends for a while, afraid to be home when the cops would come knocking with a test.
You don't have to be in one of these clubs to get *invited* to a urine test.
Also you don't need to comply, they will keep you in a holding cell till you unlock your mobile. It's not just the dealers that people would give up but other drug users along.
If you get kicked out of China keep in mind your visa will be voided and if you need to apply to a different country for a visa, you can forget about that as well.
Piss tests are the easiest though I've been told they may check your hair as well, it doesn't matter if you did drugs today or drugs 3 months ago abroad.
The "3 months ago abroad" bit is what all the people coming in for their gap years need to remember. The govt doesn't give a fuck you smoked your dope somewhere its legal. They don't want people who use drugs in China and will deport you regardless of not breaking any laws when you were in China.
Yes, there was a lot of pressure from the police to name people and hand over the WeChat contacts - those detained were literally handing over anyone's contact just to meet the random quota and be let go. I believe some people left random and perfectly innocent WeChat groups (think "dads in Puxi / money exchange / French groups etc) because names were just being randomly handed over from people in groups they didn't even know, so people were leaving these larger groups where they don't actually know everyone in it.
Easier to point to a random stranger in a large group chat than hand over the contact of someone you know personally, I suppose.
nahhh it was legit question, I might be too traditional, nicotine and caffeine is my only go to "drugs".
i don't even have friend in China who do drugs, so it's kinda interesting to see that in the background ppl might be doing some heavy shit
I thought it was really rare these days lol. Back in 2010 it was pretty easy to buy weed, hash and cocaine. Also exatasy was available. Among Chinese it is was more common with ketamine and meth.
I remember the dodgy XInjiangren who used to hang around Renmin Square and approach any foreigners with the call of "hash, woman, hash, woman, hash, woman". With the cops studiously ignoring them.
Lmao, I remember once leaving for lunch break at my old HS there was a guy yelling „hashish marijuanaaaaa?“ at students passing by. At the end of lunch he was nowhere to be seen 👀
How about “Hey boys. Don’t do drugs ANYWHERE”?
You really don’t know what kind of shit is in them (Unless you are the actual manufacturer, of course). Even marihuana can be laced with fentanyl, so you really are playing Russian roulette every time you do drugs.
As a proud Oregonian I invite everyone reading this to visit Portland, the coast, Bend, Crater Lake and smoke some of Oregon’s finest.
For those concerned with drug tests might I recommend magic mushrooms?
"Pizza could be laced with fentanyl"
Sounds just as logical as someone lacing weed with it, let alone any drug dealer ever of all time wasting their money to ... hurt their customers, by lacing drugs with other drugs for no reason
Dealers don’t f*cking care if you die, especially as a foreigner. They just want to sell, actually most of them don’t even know what they are selling exactly.
(They are disconnected from the fabrication process)
Just don’t do drug. Especially in a foreign country.
Dealers don’t know what they are selling. And laboratories are trying to cut cost by using cheaper and more dangerous substance.
Of course they don’t want you to die, but they are not a full organisation with tests, batch numbers etc.
The rhetoric “they don’t want to kill you” is as dumb as not understanding that the dealer is not testing the composition, they are there to make a sale.
You’re saying dealers are idiots that want to kill their customers risking more heat on them to get arrested and sentence to death? Got it!
Of course there might be one or two assholes that would sell something laced but it’s stupid to think fentanyl. Why would they risk getting fentanyl instead of some other over the counter drugs? LOL. Any dealer with a normal IQ can get those testing stripes before buying from their supplier.
Try a little critical thinking before typing some nonsense again.
Below is a quick search for testing stripes:
[https://massclearinghouse.ehs.state.ma.us/PROG-BSAS-YTH/SA5844.html](https://massclearinghouse.ehs.state.ma.us/PROG-BSAS-YTH/SA5844.html)
Because drug abusers and their defenders will always see it as harmless. No matter how many lives they destroy. That is the most challenging part of the issue, and why an honest debate on the topic can never happen.
At one point, enacting Amsterdam-esque drug policies across the Western world was going to help the situation. A few major cities tried it. Those have been complete, abject failures.
Now the same groups are blaming everything and everyone else. Unsurprisingly, they're here in this sub blaming China for managing the issue with a very heavy hand.
There is likely a solution to help manage the issue that isn't as heavy handed but drug liberalization, as it turns out, is not it. China has a policy. Those who don't like it can leave the same way they came.
I would argue that police prosecuting drug users and forcing them to spend years in prison causes more harm than the drugs themselves. You’re correct that drug use is not good, but are clearly supporting a system which only adds to the harm around drugs. Prosecute drug dealers, but help those who use them find healthier alternatives.
Who does it harm more -- society or those involved?
I'd agree that throwing nonviolent drug offenders in maximum security prisons is not the right path, but I'd be curious to see any evidence that confinement of some sort is not part of society successfully managing the issue with the least impact to all.
One thing is for certain. Having them free to walk around and abuse without any sort of compulsory action has been a colossal failure.
I agree with your last point for sure. We can’t just let these people keep killing themselves.
I’ll back up a bit and just add that my entire philosophy on life is that there is one core part of human existence that is notably ‘real’. Suffering. I think the mitigation of suffering should be the core of all morality. Drugs give people who suffer everything they desire at first. And then, fairly quickly the suffering returns with a vengeance. In order to leave this suffering behind, these people must experience even more suffering (withdrawals) to have any hope at experiencing a better life. If you ask someone who just did heroine for the first time if they are suffering, they’ll probably respond “of course not, this is the best I’ve ever felt”. If you ask an addict who has done heroine every day for the best 5 years if they are suffering/happy, they’ll almost certainly say “no, I’m not doing well, every part of my existence is suffering beside the first 30 minutes of a high”.
So when I look at a problem like this, I see people doing something that humans naturally seek out, but is flawed and only leads to more pain. Prison is not an effective way to mitigate suffering, and so long as that is the punishment for drug abuse, I will not be in favor of drug enforcement. It’s just not worth it to me to harm so many people. When their sentences are over, they will have been without family for years, they likely will have no direction, they will likely lose their ability to get housing or a job. We have only amplified the conditions that drove them to use drugs in the first place…
We need to foster a world based around true empathy, where we help each other live better lives. Until we do that, there will always be individuals who turn to drugs, even if a death sentence was the punishment for using them.
I understand our perspectives might differ, but this is where I am coming from.
Wild, I was there and left at 12:10am, just missing this it seems. I’m just a tourist and went there after seeing it mentioned on Reddit.
I sometimes take like 1mg of cannabis to help me sleep back home in Seattle where it’s completely legal. Never realized that could fuck me in another country.
Edit: I meant doing this in Seattle could get me in trouble in china. Not that I would do it in china.
Are you stupid? You’re in a communist country with different rules. Of course it’ll fuck you over. Don’t think because you’re from the US you get special privileges. You’re at the bottom of the totem pole.
I mean people who have never had the opportunity to travel could easily not think about details like this. No need to be so aggressive in your response.
I’ve traveled a ton and been to china multiple times. It’s never crossed my mind that I would need to have a legal product totally out of my hair strands months in advance 🤷. Cannabis is so normalized in the US now.
This would be like expecting Chinese to not have smoked a cig or drank alcohol for months prior to visiting some bizarro world country that blood tests for them random when you’re just mind your own business doing nothing illegal.
If only people could say hey, it's a huge violation of our humanity to have the police piss test you at random in public. Instead of this online scolding drivel...
Cannabis is legal and sold in stores in half of the US states, are you living under a rock or just brain damaged? You can walk into stores and just buy it.
Also I don’t even like getting high, but you’ve probably never heard of taking tiny amounts for medical purposes.
You can smoke weed in front of a New York City police officer and they won’t touch you. You can buy weed in legal storefronts in many states. I’ve bought in Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey. It might be listed as illegal but highly decriminalized now. Like jaywalking. If you do get searched and they find weed on you, there’s a legal limit you’re allowed to carry / have in your possession. Etc etc.
I'm always torn on this. I started to fall in the Shanghai drug pit around 2015. It was a wild ride. Luckily I pulled myself out of it before the crackdowns starting coming in 2018/19. I'm glad that a lot of the harder shit is gone, but these random drug tests that get people deported because of a joint they smoked in Thailand doesn't sit right with me. Hope this doesn't become a regular occurrence in Shanghai.
> Hope this doesn't become a regular occurrence in Shanghai.
Nothing with the Shanghai police is a regular occurrence. They know there is no reason to do anything unless a higher power tells them to and those higher powers are politicians that throws different hissy fits depening on the political climate.
One "exception" are all the traffic police that are all over town. I was sure that was one of usual "fix one month, problem solved" cases but they are still there. However, most of the actual traffic police that work there seem to have given up and just wave their hands when they see something wrong.
Good on you for kicking a bad habit!
lol. People still “upset” about random drug raids?
It’s simple. Either don’t do drugs or don’t be in China. Don’t get me wrong, I did the former and was still brought in for tests, but they never got anything
Edit: Damn, with all these downvotes it’s like some people are in for a rude awakening. I had a career in China I didn’t want to jeopardize, but guess if you come in working for Giraffe English, then it probably doesn’t matter anyways
Bizarre. I lived in China in one of the major cities for a long ass time, plan to return permanently once I tie up some loose ends, and never once was I randomly drug tested.
In fact, I've never once had a negative interaction with police.
When did you live there? I lived there for the better part of the last decade and when Big Brother came into power in 2017, they started cracking down on drug abuse. Know too many people who got caught up because they refused to quit, or were clean and someone name dropped them, or they were at a club that got raided.
Mostly happened in Shanghai and Beijing for what I know. Didn’t hear much in Guangzhou or Shenzhen
Lived there for nearly 13 years. Left end of 2021.
Treatment by police was no different the day I left than when I arrived. Something tells me people are acting like 外国人 or hanging around "those types" and then surprised they're being checked. Your comment pretty much confirms it.
With a country that was brutalized in the opium wars by colonial powers like China only a complete idiot would think drug use is going to be acceptable. When 外国人 do this, it does nothing but build the same resentment from the majority Hispanics in the US face. Nothing good comes from it. They need to go back home, and get their lives together.
Lmao the victim complex about the opium wars is insane when China is actively exporting fentanyl to drug cartels in Mexico at quantities thousands of times greater than anything the British did.
Ah yes the CIA trafficking fentanyl… why? I bet it was the Qing dynasty that was actually trafficking opium. Not the British.
Chinese banks and gangs were just caught working with the Mexican drug cartels😂.
Hahaha, what? Are they literally shipping pure fentanyl to 'Drug Cartel Inc.'?
They are shipping 'precursors' to companies in Mexico which get in the hands of cartels. But that's like blaming Sweden for London's knife crime because someone shoplifted a kitchen knife from IKEA.
Ah yes the thousands of tons of fentanyl precursors sent to companies in Mexico are totally shipped with good intentions. There’s no way these Chinese chemical manufacturers know exactly what the applications for these substances are. Fentanyl precursors of course have many alternative applications other than making fentanyl /s. And of course Chinese regulators have no clue this is happening and simply failed to restrict these substances from manufacture while they have in recent years banned far less dangerous substances /s. It’s all a giant coincidence lmao.
And no, it’s not only precursors, they quite literally ship fentanyl. China produces 90% of the world’s fentanyl and fentanyl precursors. Several local governments offered subsidies for the production of fentanyl precursors along with other synthetic drugs under the condition that they were produced FOR EXPORT. Why would they subsidize the chemicals who applications are largely limited to illegal drugs under the condition that they are exported?
It’s not really up for debate when the central government acknowledges it for talks.
There are two issues with random drug tests. One: You could have never done drugs in your life, but a nightclub bathroom isn't exactly a sterile environment. We have no idea how accurate or not these tests are nor what the pass/fail criteria is. Two: You could get accused by a random acquaintance and have to go down to the police station for a pee test.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-eye-burning-sun-women-who-exposed-secret-kpop-chatgroups
TL;DR: Burning Sun Scandal
The Burning Sun scandal, which broke in 2019, involved numerous K-pop idols and high-profile figures in South Korea. Centered around the Burning Sun nightclub, co-owned by Seungri of BIGBANG, the scandal exposed a network of drugging, sexual assaults, and illegal filming and sharing of videos involving women. Key figures included Seungri, Jung Joon-young, and Choi Jong-hoon, among others.
I'm from the US, and I live in the US. One visit to downtown Portland, Hell's Kitchen in NYC or the Bay area pretty much confirms what he's saying. It's gotten pretty bad in my area too, and I live in the south.
Sounds like you've never been to the US.
Those are very specific parts of the US that aren't representative of it as a whole, and you'd be able to find places like that in just about any country. "Hordes" is a strong word, don't you think?
You can't be serious. If the entirety of the south, and largest population centers of the east and west coasts aren't representative of the country, then what the fuck is? The empty states, where animals outnumber the people?
Personally, I took "hordes" as hyperbole in response to hyperbole. Responding to overly dramatic people with dramatic responses is acceptable.
Hate to break it to you, but those places aren't full of vegetative drug zombies. They're filled with normal people like you and I. Grew up in the South and have lived in LA for almost a decade, and the narrative you're pushing just isn't anywhere close to reality.
Then you're covering your eyes when you go past or are a homebody and rarely go anywhere.
It's honestly shocking you're saying that while living in LA. I visit frequently, and most of my team lives there. I'd go to the most dangerous parts of Memphis before I'd step foot in the worst parts of LA.
Go outside every once in a while. It helps to expand one's views of the world instead of living with rose-colored glasses on. No need to go through life with such a myopic view of the world.
I practically live outside, theres so much to do here!
I mean of course it isn't perfect, but I think theres a stark difference between what you see on the news/reddit versus what you experience in everyday life. Almost every place has its issues - pretending like America is the only place with them is ridiculous.
Sorry you see the world this way. I've traveled to dozens of countries (even lived in China!), and LA is by far my favorite place out of all of them. To each their own, though.
Sorry we can't see eye to eye on this, hope you have an awesome weekend!
> I practically live outside, theres so much to do here!
I'll gladly send you coords in LA to visit and the times to be there. You visit, and come back here and honestly say I'm making it up. I don't think you can.
> I mean of course it isn't perfect, but I think theres a stark difference between what you see on the news/reddit versus what you experience in everyday life. Almost every place has its issues - pretending like America is the only place with them is ridiculous.
To be frank, the only one here pretending there aren't problems is... you. You responded to hyperbole with an entirely fictional view that their aren't serious drug problems in the US. [Two-thirds of American adults have been impacted by substance abuse but, somehow, in your world, this just doesn't exist.](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4153488-majority-of-us-adults-say-addiction-has-affected-their-family-in-some-way-poll/) We're not seeing eye-to-eye because you're not using yours at all.
Wishing you the same. Good luck in life!
"Cope"... with what? Have I been through some tragedy? Have you uncovered some dark secret I'm hiding?
You like throwing out words you don't even understand, eh?
if only there were some kind of middle ground between forcibly drug testing random club-goers and jailing them for cannabis and allowing people to publicly inject heroin on the street
I think you have formed your opinion of America based on the news or social media. Yes, drugs are a problem, but the U.S. has also put more people in prison for drugs than any other country on earth (per capita). Clearly the issue runs deeper.
> hordes
Homeless people are mostly around cities. You don’t see hordes of drugged out people in most places around the country and even in cities, it’s certainly not “hordes”. With many homeless people, it’s clear drugs are not the main problem, it’s mental health. Mentally healthy people don’t choose to throw their lives away on some dirty cartel drug.
> Mentally healthy people don’t choose to throw their lives away on some dirty cartel drug.
You're probably right, but it's better that they aren't given the option anyway. If they had the option in China, with how screwed up the work culture is, all the people on 9/9/6, all the kids and teens whose lives are entirely scheduled from morning to evening and 7 days a week... if they had the legal option, or even if it were illegal but easily accessible, there'd probably be a hundred million drug addicts in China right now.
There aren't, not because people are largely mentally healthier--I doubt that--but because it's extremely severely punished, it's a huge social taboo, and it's very difficult to even access such things, outside of certain social circles.
I mostly agree with you! I would say the only part where I take issue with China’s and the United State’s approach is further victimizing those people who have no where else to turn but to drugs.
The interesting thing is that China’s war on drugs is actually successful… where as in the US, people are given prison sentences for personal possession, yet it seems to have no real affect on keeping drugs off the streets. Im my eyes though, putting people in prison for personal possession is completely unjust. For me it doesn’t really matter if it’s effective or not at keeping drugs out of the country… I just don’t think it’s worth it. These people need support. They need chances to be brough back into productive society.
This of course is just my opinion. I appreciate your insight!
This whole discussion is pretty rich considering it is China pumping fentanyl into the US.
China's war on drugs wasn't very successful when the British were pumping it full of opium
You are a kid in Japan who writes highly problematic comments about Stalingrad and Jews. Somehow I doubt you have much done much actual reading on fentanyl, the Opium wars or any other historical subject. You are on a "I heard it on Joe Rogan, so it must be true" level of intellectual discourse.
you are a kid that got triggered enough to go way back into someone's comments, but couldn't even come away with a single accurate accusation.
good luck out there smart person. your joe rogan accusation has the distinct wiff of projection though. as someone who combed through my comments, you should know that I have never seen an episode of his show
edit: when a comment lands so hard you get banned. lol. good luck out there u/memostothefuture
It’s not “hey just don’t do drugs kids” or “why you do that here?”
It’s a police state, and people ain’t gonna sign off on that chief with their up dizzles.
Eat your veggies and remember not to support fascism even if you’re the kind to get along to get along to get wherever you’re going.
People who do drugs in china do not understand the risk and should be in trouble. This means that any drugs are outlawed, this Includes things that you may not consider as drugs. For example, creams with cbd in it about poppy seeds on your bagel, all of which are enough to get you put in prison or at least deported. But I know people who have not done any drug in their life, still getting positive results. In fact, a certain South Africa human rights lawyer was stopped and later deported. Another friend broke up with his long-term girlfriend and stayed at home for four days after never missing a day of work in his life. He decided that you need to go out and get some food from a local supermarket. Unfortunately, he was arrested at the subway station where he was held 6 hours. They tested him, and all results came back negative, of course. The cop explained that the government AI had identified him as a possible risk and threat. So a computer issued a stop and search warrant automatically based on his behaviour. I think one of the most telling signs about these cops is that they go into clubs and bust people, which is that sometimes they will actually pick on a certain nationality. For example, I have actually been in a club where they only test the americans and let everyone else go. All because trump said something negative about the supreme leader. These drug laws are not about safety or social reasons as there are hold provinces, in which everyone there constantly manufactures or consumes drugs. It is a political tool that is used to further bureaucrats lofty high goals of replacing the great leader. There are no laws in China it is whatever the ccp wants that week.
That guy at the end is fucking done.
How is anyone still surprised though? They made it clear over and over again they'd do these checks...
Drug tests at clubs. French people everywhere. 2019 Shanghai is back baby!
French people everywhere. Unfortunately. At least they're not back in HK.
Reminder: when they last performed these urine tests many who tested positive got taken to the station and offered deals if they gave up their dealers (usually lower fine, shorter detention, still often no visa renewal or deportation). this subreddit was full with comments from folks who had gone through that. cops also went through their phones and would visit the ten or so most recent contacts. there were a lot of people sleeping on couches of friends for a while, afraid to be home when the cops would come knocking with a test. You don't have to be in one of these clubs to get *invited* to a urine test.
Also you don't need to comply, they will keep you in a holding cell till you unlock your mobile. It's not just the dealers that people would give up but other drug users along. If you get kicked out of China keep in mind your visa will be voided and if you need to apply to a different country for a visa, you can forget about that as well. Piss tests are the easiest though I've been told they may check your hair as well, it doesn't matter if you did drugs today or drugs 3 months ago abroad.
The "3 months ago abroad" bit is what all the people coming in for their gap years need to remember. The govt doesn't give a fuck you smoked your dope somewhere its legal. They don't want people who use drugs in China and will deport you regardless of not breaking any laws when you were in China.
You ve offended the Chinese People!
Yes, there was a lot of pressure from the police to name people and hand over the WeChat contacts - those detained were literally handing over anyone's contact just to meet the random quota and be let go. I believe some people left random and perfectly innocent WeChat groups (think "dads in Puxi / money exchange / French groups etc) because names were just being randomly handed over from people in groups they didn't even know, so people were leaving these larger groups where they don't actually know everyone in it. Easier to point to a random stranger in a large group chat than hand over the contact of someone you know personally, I suppose.
What drugs are common in Shanghai? What are they looking for?
where should i go to avoid encountering them?
nahhh it was legit question, I might be too traditional, nicotine and caffeine is my only go to "drugs". i don't even have friend in China who do drugs, so it's kinda interesting to see that in the background ppl might be doing some heavy shit
I thought it was really rare these days lol. Back in 2010 it was pretty easy to buy weed, hash and cocaine. Also exatasy was available. Among Chinese it is was more common with ketamine and meth.
I remember the dodgy XInjiangren who used to hang around Renmin Square and approach any foreigners with the call of "hash, woman, hash, woman, hash, woman". With the cops studiously ignoring them.
Lmao, I remember once leaving for lunch break at my old HS there was a guy yelling „hashish marijuanaaaaa?“ at students passing by. At the end of lunch he was nowhere to be seen 👀
Hey boys. Don’t do drugs in China.
Or at least 30 days before going to China
or at least 90 days, hair test
[удалено]
Good! Foreigners keep the fuck out! Sucks they all want a teaching job in China.
How about “Hey boys. Don’t do drugs ANYWHERE”? You really don’t know what kind of shit is in them (Unless you are the actual manufacturer, of course). Even marihuana can be laced with fentanyl, so you really are playing Russian roulette every time you do drugs.
As a proud Oregonian I invite everyone reading this to visit Portland, the coast, Bend, Crater Lake and smoke some of Oregon’s finest. For those concerned with drug tests might I recommend magic mushrooms?
"Pizza could be laced with fentanyl" Sounds just as logical as someone lacing weed with it, let alone any drug dealer ever of all time wasting their money to ... hurt their customers, by lacing drugs with other drugs for no reason
It’s dumb for a dealer to kill their customers. So I don’t know why anyone would lace fentanyl. Anyways. Don’t do drugs in China.
Dealers don’t f*cking care if you die, especially as a foreigner. They just want to sell, actually most of them don’t even know what they are selling exactly. (They are disconnected from the fabrication process) Just don’t do drug. Especially in a foreign country.
So you’re saying dealers want to kill all their customers? Make sense……/s
Dealers don’t know what they are selling. And laboratories are trying to cut cost by using cheaper and more dangerous substance. Of course they don’t want you to die, but they are not a full organisation with tests, batch numbers etc. The rhetoric “they don’t want to kill you” is as dumb as not understanding that the dealer is not testing the composition, they are there to make a sale.
You’re saying dealers are idiots that want to kill their customers risking more heat on them to get arrested and sentence to death? Got it! Of course there might be one or two assholes that would sell something laced but it’s stupid to think fentanyl. Why would they risk getting fentanyl instead of some other over the counter drugs? LOL. Any dealer with a normal IQ can get those testing stripes before buying from their supplier. Try a little critical thinking before typing some nonsense again. Below is a quick search for testing stripes: [https://massclearinghouse.ehs.state.ma.us/PROG-BSAS-YTH/SA5844.html](https://massclearinghouse.ehs.state.ma.us/PROG-BSAS-YTH/SA5844.html)
If dealers had an average IQ, they likely wouldn't be dealing in the first place..
Don't do drugs. They're not good for you.
Why this can get downvoted?
Because drug abusers and their defenders will always see it as harmless. No matter how many lives they destroy. That is the most challenging part of the issue, and why an honest debate on the topic can never happen. At one point, enacting Amsterdam-esque drug policies across the Western world was going to help the situation. A few major cities tried it. Those have been complete, abject failures. Now the same groups are blaming everything and everyone else. Unsurprisingly, they're here in this sub blaming China for managing the issue with a very heavy hand. There is likely a solution to help manage the issue that isn't as heavy handed but drug liberalization, as it turns out, is not it. China has a policy. Those who don't like it can leave the same way they came.
I would argue that police prosecuting drug users and forcing them to spend years in prison causes more harm than the drugs themselves. You’re correct that drug use is not good, but are clearly supporting a system which only adds to the harm around drugs. Prosecute drug dealers, but help those who use them find healthier alternatives.
Who does it harm more -- society or those involved? I'd agree that throwing nonviolent drug offenders in maximum security prisons is not the right path, but I'd be curious to see any evidence that confinement of some sort is not part of society successfully managing the issue with the least impact to all. One thing is for certain. Having them free to walk around and abuse without any sort of compulsory action has been a colossal failure.
I agree with your last point for sure. We can’t just let these people keep killing themselves. I’ll back up a bit and just add that my entire philosophy on life is that there is one core part of human existence that is notably ‘real’. Suffering. I think the mitigation of suffering should be the core of all morality. Drugs give people who suffer everything they desire at first. And then, fairly quickly the suffering returns with a vengeance. In order to leave this suffering behind, these people must experience even more suffering (withdrawals) to have any hope at experiencing a better life. If you ask someone who just did heroine for the first time if they are suffering, they’ll probably respond “of course not, this is the best I’ve ever felt”. If you ask an addict who has done heroine every day for the best 5 years if they are suffering/happy, they’ll almost certainly say “no, I’m not doing well, every part of my existence is suffering beside the first 30 minutes of a high”. So when I look at a problem like this, I see people doing something that humans naturally seek out, but is flawed and only leads to more pain. Prison is not an effective way to mitigate suffering, and so long as that is the punishment for drug abuse, I will not be in favor of drug enforcement. It’s just not worth it to me to harm so many people. When their sentences are over, they will have been without family for years, they likely will have no direction, they will likely lose their ability to get housing or a job. We have only amplified the conditions that drove them to use drugs in the first place… We need to foster a world based around true empathy, where we help each other live better lives. Until we do that, there will always be individuals who turn to drugs, even if a death sentence was the punishment for using them. I understand our perspectives might differ, but this is where I am coming from.
Wild, I was there and left at 12:10am, just missing this it seems. I’m just a tourist and went there after seeing it mentioned on Reddit. I sometimes take like 1mg of cannabis to help me sleep back home in Seattle where it’s completely legal. Never realized that could fuck me in another country. Edit: I meant doing this in Seattle could get me in trouble in china. Not that I would do it in china.
Why would u go to China as a tourist now i hope this made you rethink your choicr
Are you stupid? You’re in a communist country with different rules. Of course it’ll fuck you over. Don’t think because you’re from the US you get special privileges. You’re at the bottom of the totem pole.
I mean people who have never had the opportunity to travel could easily not think about details like this. No need to be so aggressive in your response.
I’ve traveled a ton and been to china multiple times. It’s never crossed my mind that I would need to have a legal product totally out of my hair strands months in advance 🤷. Cannabis is so normalized in the US now. This would be like expecting Chinese to not have smoked a cig or drank alcohol for months prior to visiting some bizarro world country that blood tests for them random when you’re just mind your own business doing nothing illegal.
If only people could say hey, it's a huge violation of our humanity to have the police piss test you at random in public. Instead of this online scolding drivel...
"...back home in Seattle where it’s completely legal..." ...Cannabis is federally illegal in the entire USA, including Seattle...sorry, hippie...
Cannabis is legal and sold in stores in half of the US states, are you living under a rock or just brain damaged? You can walk into stores and just buy it. Also I don’t even like getting high, but you’ve probably never heard of taking tiny amounts for medical purposes.
You can smoke weed in front of a New York City police officer and they won’t touch you. You can buy weed in legal storefronts in many states. I’ve bought in Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey. It might be listed as illegal but highly decriminalized now. Like jaywalking. If you do get searched and they find weed on you, there’s a legal limit you’re allowed to carry / have in your possession. Etc etc.
countries tend to differ from one to another. try drinking a bottle of beer in front of that same NYC copper.
yes but the conversation was around weed.
I'm always torn on this. I started to fall in the Shanghai drug pit around 2015. It was a wild ride. Luckily I pulled myself out of it before the crackdowns starting coming in 2018/19. I'm glad that a lot of the harder shit is gone, but these random drug tests that get people deported because of a joint they smoked in Thailand doesn't sit right with me. Hope this doesn't become a regular occurrence in Shanghai.
> Hope this doesn't become a regular occurrence in Shanghai. Nothing with the Shanghai police is a regular occurrence. They know there is no reason to do anything unless a higher power tells them to and those higher powers are politicians that throws different hissy fits depening on the political climate. One "exception" are all the traffic police that are all over town. I was sure that was one of usual "fix one month, problem solved" cases but they are still there. However, most of the actual traffic police that work there seem to have given up and just wave their hands when they see something wrong. Good on you for kicking a bad habit!
It’s china man
Looks like big tobacco been splashing out again
What happens if you’re positive as a foreigner and local?
Local: jail time or fine Foreigners: fine definitely, deportation probably a
Some info please
Drug Raid by the coppers bruh.
😂😂😂
lol. People still “upset” about random drug raids? It’s simple. Either don’t do drugs or don’t be in China. Don’t get me wrong, I did the former and was still brought in for tests, but they never got anything Edit: Damn, with all these downvotes it’s like some people are in for a rude awakening. I had a career in China I didn’t want to jeopardize, but guess if you come in working for Giraffe English, then it probably doesn’t matter anyways
Bizarre. I lived in China in one of the major cities for a long ass time, plan to return permanently once I tie up some loose ends, and never once was I randomly drug tested. In fact, I've never once had a negative interaction with police.
When did you live there? I lived there for the better part of the last decade and when Big Brother came into power in 2017, they started cracking down on drug abuse. Know too many people who got caught up because they refused to quit, or were clean and someone name dropped them, or they were at a club that got raided. Mostly happened in Shanghai and Beijing for what I know. Didn’t hear much in Guangzhou or Shenzhen
Lived there for nearly 13 years. Left end of 2021. Treatment by police was no different the day I left than when I arrived. Something tells me people are acting like 外国人 or hanging around "those types" and then surprised they're being checked. Your comment pretty much confirms it. With a country that was brutalized in the opium wars by colonial powers like China only a complete idiot would think drug use is going to be acceptable. When 外国人 do this, it does nothing but build the same resentment from the majority Hispanics in the US face. Nothing good comes from it. They need to go back home, and get their lives together.
Lmao the victim complex about the opium wars is insane when China is actively exporting fentanyl to drug cartels in Mexico at quantities thousands of times greater than anything the British did.
China is actively supporting? The primary perpetrators are located in Langley but please do continue with your useless drivel.
Ah yes the CIA trafficking fentanyl… why? I bet it was the Qing dynasty that was actually trafficking opium. Not the British. Chinese banks and gangs were just caught working with the Mexican drug cartels😂.
There are literally history books on the US government fueling the wrong side of the drug war.
Hahaha, what? Are they literally shipping pure fentanyl to 'Drug Cartel Inc.'? They are shipping 'precursors' to companies in Mexico which get in the hands of cartels. But that's like blaming Sweden for London's knife crime because someone shoplifted a kitchen knife from IKEA.
Ah yes the thousands of tons of fentanyl precursors sent to companies in Mexico are totally shipped with good intentions. There’s no way these Chinese chemical manufacturers know exactly what the applications for these substances are. Fentanyl precursors of course have many alternative applications other than making fentanyl /s. And of course Chinese regulators have no clue this is happening and simply failed to restrict these substances from manufacture while they have in recent years banned far less dangerous substances /s. It’s all a giant coincidence lmao. And no, it’s not only precursors, they quite literally ship fentanyl. China produces 90% of the world’s fentanyl and fentanyl precursors. Several local governments offered subsidies for the production of fentanyl precursors along with other synthetic drugs under the condition that they were produced FOR EXPORT. Why would they subsidize the chemicals who applications are largely limited to illegal drugs under the condition that they are exported? It’s not really up for debate when the central government acknowledges it for talks.
There are two issues with random drug tests. One: You could have never done drugs in your life, but a nightclub bathroom isn't exactly a sterile environment. We have no idea how accurate or not these tests are nor what the pass/fail criteria is. Two: You could get accused by a random acquaintance and have to go down to the police station for a pee test.
I mean, yeah? Preaching to the choir here, brotha
If it’s simple how did you mess it up?
Never messed up. They came knocking on my door because someone dropped my name somewhere. How you supposed to stop snitches?
This should be good. They don’t want to turn into S Korea
What do you mean?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-eye-burning-sun-women-who-exposed-secret-kpop-chatgroups TL;DR: Burning Sun Scandal The Burning Sun scandal, which broke in 2019, involved numerous K-pop idols and high-profile figures in South Korea. Centered around the Burning Sun nightclub, co-owned by Seungri of BIGBANG, the scandal exposed a network of drugging, sexual assaults, and illegal filming and sharing of videos involving women. Key figures included Seungri, Jung Joon-young, and Choi Jong-hoon, among others.
Drugs?
They don’t want people having a good time outside of the narrow lanes laid for them
Fuck China. Sad this is one of the few freedoms we have in the US
lol! Enjoy your freedom!
Thanks I do. What little we have but it's better than there
I am SO SO glad to no longer living in that dystopia.
Yeah, the hordes of semi-vegetative and mentally-unstable zombies roaming the legalized-drug zones in America are totally preferable.
I live in Thailand. Come on down, the water’s fine.
Did Thailand just outlaw marijuana again?
No
Tell me you've never been to the US without telling me you've never been to the US Cope harder
https://youtube.com/shorts/Y7JCjb8Mmv8?si=fSszhOi8H08Q4Hlq Philly drug scenes
I'm from the US, and I live in the US. One visit to downtown Portland, Hell's Kitchen in NYC or the Bay area pretty much confirms what he's saying. It's gotten pretty bad in my area too, and I live in the south. Sounds like you've never been to the US.
Those are very specific parts of the US that aren't representative of it as a whole, and you'd be able to find places like that in just about any country. "Hordes" is a strong word, don't you think?
You can't be serious. If the entirety of the south, and largest population centers of the east and west coasts aren't representative of the country, then what the fuck is? The empty states, where animals outnumber the people? Personally, I took "hordes" as hyperbole in response to hyperbole. Responding to overly dramatic people with dramatic responses is acceptable.
Hate to break it to you, but those places aren't full of vegetative drug zombies. They're filled with normal people like you and I. Grew up in the South and have lived in LA for almost a decade, and the narrative you're pushing just isn't anywhere close to reality.
Then you're covering your eyes when you go past or are a homebody and rarely go anywhere. It's honestly shocking you're saying that while living in LA. I visit frequently, and most of my team lives there. I'd go to the most dangerous parts of Memphis before I'd step foot in the worst parts of LA. Go outside every once in a while. It helps to expand one's views of the world instead of living with rose-colored glasses on. No need to go through life with such a myopic view of the world.
I practically live outside, theres so much to do here! I mean of course it isn't perfect, but I think theres a stark difference between what you see on the news/reddit versus what you experience in everyday life. Almost every place has its issues - pretending like America is the only place with them is ridiculous. Sorry you see the world this way. I've traveled to dozens of countries (even lived in China!), and LA is by far my favorite place out of all of them. To each their own, though. Sorry we can't see eye to eye on this, hope you have an awesome weekend!
> I practically live outside, theres so much to do here! I'll gladly send you coords in LA to visit and the times to be there. You visit, and come back here and honestly say I'm making it up. I don't think you can. > I mean of course it isn't perfect, but I think theres a stark difference between what you see on the news/reddit versus what you experience in everyday life. Almost every place has its issues - pretending like America is the only place with them is ridiculous. To be frank, the only one here pretending there aren't problems is... you. You responded to hyperbole with an entirely fictional view that their aren't serious drug problems in the US. [Two-thirds of American adults have been impacted by substance abuse but, somehow, in your world, this just doesn't exist.](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4153488-majority-of-us-adults-say-addiction-has-affected-their-family-in-some-way-poll/) We're not seeing eye-to-eye because you're not using yours at all. Wishing you the same. Good luck in life!
So now you’re just lying
"Cope"... with what? Have I been through some tragedy? Have you uncovered some dark secret I'm hiding? You like throwing out words you don't even understand, eh?
if only there were some kind of middle ground between forcibly drug testing random club-goers and jailing them for cannabis and allowing people to publicly inject heroin on the street
I think you have formed your opinion of America based on the news or social media. Yes, drugs are a problem, but the U.S. has also put more people in prison for drugs than any other country on earth (per capita). Clearly the issue runs deeper. > hordes Homeless people are mostly around cities. You don’t see hordes of drugged out people in most places around the country and even in cities, it’s certainly not “hordes”. With many homeless people, it’s clear drugs are not the main problem, it’s mental health. Mentally healthy people don’t choose to throw their lives away on some dirty cartel drug.
> Mentally healthy people don’t choose to throw their lives away on some dirty cartel drug. You're probably right, but it's better that they aren't given the option anyway. If they had the option in China, with how screwed up the work culture is, all the people on 9/9/6, all the kids and teens whose lives are entirely scheduled from morning to evening and 7 days a week... if they had the legal option, or even if it were illegal but easily accessible, there'd probably be a hundred million drug addicts in China right now. There aren't, not because people are largely mentally healthier--I doubt that--but because it's extremely severely punished, it's a huge social taboo, and it's very difficult to even access such things, outside of certain social circles.
I mostly agree with you! I would say the only part where I take issue with China’s and the United State’s approach is further victimizing those people who have no where else to turn but to drugs. The interesting thing is that China’s war on drugs is actually successful… where as in the US, people are given prison sentences for personal possession, yet it seems to have no real affect on keeping drugs off the streets. Im my eyes though, putting people in prison for personal possession is completely unjust. For me it doesn’t really matter if it’s effective or not at keeping drugs out of the country… I just don’t think it’s worth it. These people need support. They need chances to be brough back into productive society. This of course is just my opinion. I appreciate your insight!
This whole discussion is pretty rich considering it is China pumping fentanyl into the US. China's war on drugs wasn't very successful when the British were pumping it full of opium
You are a kid in Japan who writes highly problematic comments about Stalingrad and Jews. Somehow I doubt you have much done much actual reading on fentanyl, the Opium wars or any other historical subject. You are on a "I heard it on Joe Rogan, so it must be true" level of intellectual discourse.
you are a kid that got triggered enough to go way back into someone's comments, but couldn't even come away with a single accurate accusation. good luck out there smart person. your joe rogan accusation has the distinct wiff of projection though. as someone who combed through my comments, you should know that I have never seen an episode of his show edit: when a comment lands so hard you get banned. lol. good luck out there u/memostothefuture
it's been a long time since someone called me a kid. and it will be a long time since you can do so again.
All that entitled French asshat could come up with is "Cops came here to dance?"... Seriously...
Man everyone should have kept drinking getting absolutely hammered.
Wouldn’t be an issue if they simply overthrow the government super quick. Then back to partying with no worries
It’s not “hey just don’t do drugs kids” or “why you do that here?” It’s a police state, and people ain’t gonna sign off on that chief with their up dizzles. Eat your veggies and remember not to support fascism even if you’re the kind to get along to get along to get wherever you’re going.
Fascism is when drugs are illegal. 🤓☝️
It’s not about crimes, it’s about how you go about enforcing them
People who do drugs in china do not understand the risk and should be in trouble. This means that any drugs are outlawed, this Includes things that you may not consider as drugs. For example, creams with cbd in it about poppy seeds on your bagel, all of which are enough to get you put in prison or at least deported. But I know people who have not done any drug in their life, still getting positive results. In fact, a certain South Africa human rights lawyer was stopped and later deported. Another friend broke up with his long-term girlfriend and stayed at home for four days after never missing a day of work in his life. He decided that you need to go out and get some food from a local supermarket. Unfortunately, he was arrested at the subway station where he was held 6 hours. They tested him, and all results came back negative, of course. The cop explained that the government AI had identified him as a possible risk and threat. So a computer issued a stop and search warrant automatically based on his behaviour. I think one of the most telling signs about these cops is that they go into clubs and bust people, which is that sometimes they will actually pick on a certain nationality. For example, I have actually been in a club where they only test the americans and let everyone else go. All because trump said something negative about the supreme leader. These drug laws are not about safety or social reasons as there are hold provinces, in which everyone there constantly manufactures or consumes drugs. It is a political tool that is used to further bureaucrats lofty high goals of replacing the great leader. There are no laws in China it is whatever the ccp wants that week.
The first half of the paragraph is rational, the second half is delusional
So what’s the point of doing drug tests on random people ?