Tbf he was the only person who actually knew about the whole thing and wanted to die as part of it.
That's why it was so emotionally devastating for him when he was asked to leave and he killed himself in the back.
Nah that's what he wanted. To die. But chef found him completely unworthy of being part of his project and told him to fuck off. And Tyler, wanting desperately to be a part of this but not remotely competent enough to convince Chef otherwise, instead resorted to the suicidal equivalent of Tyler's Bullshit and snuck off into the back to hang himself.
It was rushed, ill conceived, and completely disappointing, much like the rest of his life.
I always just assumed he basically just insulted him and his profession (foodie blogger bullshit) to a point where he felt completely worthless. I don't think he told him to do anything or go anywhere. But he knew what he would do.
I saw a theory for what was said to him, which was along the lines of "You're not worthy to die as a guest and you're not worthy to die as part of the crew, leave and go do it yourself." Which feels devastating for him as well as fitting in with Slowik's insults
Well, he wasn't *not* part of the project. He was there just as intentionally as everyone else except Margot.
Each victim represents a different facet of the things he hates, and he hates the foodie bullshit just as much as anything else. So he very likely planned this part as much as any other part. It was a statement that the obsessive fans who never actually cook contribute nothing and so deserve nothing.
I think he got special treatment because he brought Margot. It could have been planned but immediately prior to having him cook he makes a big deal about how bringing her was both unplanned and a dick move.
Definitely. Which is actually a shit take on Chef's part. Why the fuck can't you enjoy and obsess about something without being good at it? Should we need to be masters to fully enjoy things?
thats not the take from the chef.
tyler's foodie bullshit that is annoying is how he is pretentious and tries to insert himself into the food process and act like his fandom elevates him from other people, such as condescending to margot, taking pictures of food despite being asked not to, etx
This is a huge issue in a lot of media fandoms. To the point where I've literally heard toxic fan-boys claim that their years spent "being a fan" should actually entitle them to some say in the creative direction despite having no writing or artistic abilities to speak of. Completely insane.
He wasn't just a fan. He was a snob, someone who used his supposed knowledge of food and cooking to bludgeon others with. Despite never doing it.
My take on Tyler is the chef sees him as a stand in for the falseness of people who aren't there for the food, but for the social status. Also, maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the chef confront him with a negative review/comment that he had made?
It's like the Teddy Roosevelt quote:
âIt is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.â
Similarly:
>>In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.
-Anton Ego, Ratatouille
I rewatched that scene and took a screenshot. He did take off his tie while going into the back. But when you see him hanging, the noose is made of rope.
[https://imgur.com/wwvZ1bp](https://imgur.com/wwvZ1bp)
A piece of cloth like a tie would stretch and become taut with the weight of a whole person, which would make it thinner and more uniform. It does look more like a rope to me though
Nothing implies that's rope. It's his tie, they wouldn't have shown him taking it off otherwise. It's probably a rope in reality because a tie isn't holding his body weight.
Holy shit. I never thought of that interpretation but itâs so cool. I just imagined it was criticism that the chef was whispering, but telling him to leave wouldâve been the biggest âfuck youâ imaginable.
Ultimately it was a critique.
Everyone was there because in some way they were competent enough at their jobs to spite Chef. But Tyler was somehow the biggest PoS in the entire group because he wasn't spiting chef, but literally everyone. He could have said no, he could have called the cops, but instead he resigned himself and 9 other people to die so he could take pictures of shitty rich people food.
Man rode the coattails of other, better men his entire life and Chef's utter rejection of him meant he had nothing left. Leaving would only prove Chef right that he didn't have the commitment to the bit and was only there for clout. So he killed himself in one pathetic act of defiance in the back where no one but he would realize.
No just the chefs, who were armed with knives acting as guards. Slowik says at the end the diners had superior numbers and probably could have overwhelmed them if they tried.
His entire plot is was in on the whole thing.
He wanted to be part of Chef's deconstructed suicide bullshit but Chef instead used him as an example of everything wrong with modern foodies and emotionally destroyed him by telling him to gtfo before desert.
That was her idea. The script called for some single tear falling down her face bullshit but ATJ was like âFuck that. If some asshole sets me up to die Iâm going to claw his eyes out.â
I'm not sure what jokekiller94 means about the joke. But I just searched and found out that there was a deleted scene where Lillian is waterboarded with broken emulsion. Just a fun fact for you.
Not much of a joke, I think, just an excellent Fuck You to the critic.
I was a chef for nearly 20 years, and I'll tell you, emulsion break sometimes. Its not a massive issue, you can just stir it a bit to rebind it. It's just how they are, so for her to single it out as if it's a major issue is waaaay overstating things.
It would be like her complaining about the weather or something similarly beyond the chefs control.
This is after they gave all the men a âfighting chanceâ to escape and he had to be told he canât just hang out around the servers, he has to try to escape.
John Waters called it one of the best movies of all time.
I mean, he is John Waters the Pink Flamingo guy, so of course he would like something like that, but it shows that it does have some appeal
*Charles Champlin of the Los Angeles Times panned the film as "a treat for the emotionally retarded, sexually inadequate and dimwitted.â*
Jesus Christ the 70âs were fucking brutal
The film is not entirely literal, it's a metaphor for the hospitality industry and the effects that it has on people.
So yes, Tyler is stupid. That's kind of the point. He's obsessed with food and hospitality, but he doesn't know how to cook. He is so privileged that he fundamentally doesn't understand the difference between working and consuming and thinks eating makes him part of the team.
He's the kind of guy who would pay a sex worker to pretend to be his girlfriend and not realize how pathetic that is.
Right he can't even be bothered to learn the names of the staff or respect the rules for no photos. He wants to be friends with Chef but ignores the ones who are also masters of craft and Chef's apprentices because they are below him in his mind
To be fair, he didnât pay margo to be his fake girlfriend, thatâs just what he told her. He hired her to be a sacrificial lamb (he could only go if he had a partner, and his actual partner did not want to die and left him)
all this "we're above the toxic fans because we really appreciate the craft while they're pretntious" shit feels simultaneously self aggrandizing, un self aware, and stupid.
>self aggrandizing, un self aware, and stupid
Well, yeah, wasn't that the point? I don't think we're meant to agree with Slowik's point of view, even if he does raise some interesting points worth exploring, he has clearly taken this too far.
Guys will literally commit mass murder-suicide rather than just go to therapy (that they can easily afford because they're a luxury chef running a private island)
I assumed it was a metaphor for art and performers in general. And the Chef was throwing one final tantrum before ending it all.
Unlike the old couple who cared too little, Tyler cared too much. Felt like the director was telling obsessive megafans to touch grass and that liking one thing makes for a terrible personality.
I love all the interpretations of the film! I think itâs about how the rich gatekeep things,like food or art, from the lower classes and use the artists/creators for their own pleasure. Meanwhile, the artists are upset with having their work gatekeeped.
I recommend watching Pig, The Menu, and Renfield back to back.
Pig: Nicolas Cage as the chef
Menu: Nicholas Hoult as the foodie
Renfield: Nicholas Hoult has to bring food to Nicolas Cage (dracula).
Feel like you didnât watch the film, he wanted to be apart of it and was the only guest who knew everyone would die. He didnât want people to escape either.
Spoilers for the film.
His girlfriend didn't show up and so he had to hire a escort.
What I have always wondered is what did the girlfriend do to deserve it?
Everyone else there is awful in some distinct way, I always though she was a food photographer, someone obsessed with the visual aesthetics of food, who spends her days plastering what she has eaten all over social media but doesn't actually care a whit about what it actually tastes like.
I think the point is that Tyler is a selfish pretentious asshole who only wanted company to show off how much of a food knower he is.
He hired the escort because he wanted someone else to be with him so he could bounce off his "knowledge". Even the Chef called him out for it.
He didn't care at all about what would happen to someone else, he just wanted to show off
I think what OP is curious about, and which I think is a good question (I don't recall if this was addressed at all in the film), is this: if the chef carefully put together the guest list, down to each person who was *supposed to* be there, what did Tyler's girlfriend do to deserve this meal? It seems that even he didn't plan for Tyler to switch her out for an escort. She wasn't *supposed to* be there. So what about the girlfriend who *was*?
I don't think it really matters since we never find out anything about her. We can just as easily assume that she was as terrible as Tyler simply because she was his girlfriend or if you look at it from Slowik's perspective, she was a "taker" too. Given that she was invited, I think we can just presume she wasn't entirely innocent in Slowik's eyes.
I agree that within the context of the movie, it doesn't matter, but most films have questions like this that don't matter, and sometimes its still just fun to wonder.
There was originally some one else who was supposed to come with Tyler, but she dumped him and that is why he needed the escort last minute.
[Tyler sacrifices Margot in The Menu (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x41QUJzuNUg)
Which suggests that she was the absolute worst, as the chef only wants to kill those he dreams has ruined his profession.
>What I have always wondered is what did the girlfriend do to deserve it?
Tyler has no empathy, concern or compassion for anyone other than himself and getting a seat at the restaurant. What the girlfriend did or didn't do isn't really relevant since we don't find out much about her. I think we can just presume Slowik felt she was guilty by association.
Maybe
But the chef had planned on killing everyone there, either they are part of it in his culinary cult, or they are the customers, each customer representing some slight agaisnt his profession.
That is why he is so uncomfortable with Margo being there, in his eyes she is innocent, just another service industry average joe.
It seems out of character and worse from his point of view messy, and unthematic, to have planned for an entirely innocent person to turn up just to kill them, even if it was part of Tylers punishment.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood. I thought you were asking from Tyler's perspective. As for why Slowik decided that his girlfriend deserved to die as well, I think without knowing much about her, we can just assume that Slowik felt she was a "taker" too and guilty by association when it comes to Tyler. Something that Margot wasn't, and was only present because she was providing a service.
Yeah. To me this is the bit that goes against the message of the film. Like...here's a guy who is content to make art that isn't perfection. He enjoys it, at least somewhat, and unlike the chef he does not appear to have become jaded or spiteful from his craft.
To me, that means he was similar to the chef, but chose a different conclusion. Whats wrong with that?
Which largely invalidates his issues with the food critic, the actor was known for doing bad movies because critics did their job, Slowic was just too much of an ass to trust their opinion and then got upset when they were right.
Also, he can just take more days off. Itâs not like he wouldnât have the means to do so, as a world famous chef. He is just too obsessed with his work.
The actor and his assistant didn't deserve to die either, Slowic chastised the food critic heavily for her role in shuttering restaurants that failed to meet her standards, and then completely ignores the role of critics in another art form to prevent him from seeing a dumpster-fire movie.
You can't get upset at critics for doing their job and also get upset when you're too pretentious to follow their suggestions.
IMO the actor shouldn't have even been in the movie, it eroded Slowic's motivations down to a petty revenge tantrum. The assistant was needed for the whole 'no singles' plot rule but she didn't do anything to Slowic either and was an untidy end to everything. I wish they went with a different subplot instead to pad the movie, like having the founder be present as a guest for the initial courses.
There are some good essays on Tyler's character and role in the film. [I really like this one](https://www.robertmitchellevans.com/2023/01/11/a-study-of-the-toxic-fanboy-tyler-in-the-menu/#:~:text=While%20Tyler%20is%20in%20fact,escort%20for%20an%20evening%20date.) and specifically this bit towards the end:
>Tylerâs obsession is not the honor that Chef wants for his skill. Slowik hates Tyler for his pathetic, fawning, idolization and it was not enough for Chef that Tyler die along with himself, the staff, and the other diners, but Tylerâs humiliation was required.
>Turning into the film third act, Chef Slowik pulls Tyler from his seat and, after dressing him as a chef, brings him into the kitchen to display his own culinary talents.
>Of which Tyler has none.
>Like so many dedicate, noisy, bossy, and opinionated fanboys Tyler when faced with creating a work in the art he knows so well fails miserably producing the supplemental course labeled Tylerâs Bullshit. For all his posturing, pronouncements, and peacocking Tyler is revealed an empty vessel with nothing of his own to contribute.
a man who says he plans to kill you and you stand around next to a cornucopia of sharp knives, and at least 1 .45 pistol wrapped up in a carpet in the back and you just eat the next course?
It's a dining room full of rich stereoptypically pampered people, several of which are older/elderly. The kitchen staff outnumber them and are shown to be almost all young, muscular, and importantly .. are the people who are holding those knives.
The part i don't buy is how quickly they recaptured the guests in that whole "we'll give you a chance to escape" segment, especially the ones that just hid. Finding people, who don't want to be found, in an unlit wooded area at night is not achievable in the timespan of a single course.
But i also don't care, great movie. Watched' it a bunch of times, it has so much rewatch value.
Wasn't it shown before that all of the staff on the island basically lived there in those sleeping quarters? I'm not too surprised they would know the layout of the island and especially when they are all trained to be absolute perfectionists with no mess-ups, especially for this planned night.
It is well made movie but it pissed me off too much for me to rewatch, it has stuck with me a lot longer than most movies. but the whole oh my you think I should die so I'm going to just fall over and curl up
they only had like a minute head start though, presumably the staff each had someone they were assigned to watch so even with the 45 seconds you have a pretty good general idea where they are going
Unironically yes. By failing to properly participate in the night he ruined it for chef, who he worshipped, and the best representation of this is that by refusing to properly try and run he missed out on the special dish for the last guest found, meanwhile he would have done anything to taste more of chef's food, as demonstrated by his assaulting the women's leftovers like a lunatic.
Unironically he is an idiot.
Also, the whole point is to breakdown the guests before they die. Of course he wouldn't be exempt from that.
Chef be like "...boo hoo hoo rich people don't appreciate my art of cooking so I'm gonna kill myself even though I'm also rich af and I could literally save poor kids lives with my money"
Selfish asshole
Fienne's acting when she asks for the cheeseburger was incredible. You can see him connecting the dots that she found his room, and realizing that she understands him in the way he was trying to understand her for most of the movie.
The dude who retaliated on his employee for rejecting his repeated sexual advances? C'mon, Hollywood encourages us to like those kinds of people for sure.
I think you completely missed the point of the movie. The chef was fed up with what the cooking scene had become and how it was no longer about the food itself and just making something that tastes good. It had been ruined by food critics who demanded that everything has to have some deep meaning and the presentation just had to say something meaningful about the world. In the end, the chef just wanted to make good food. Thatâs why the hooker asked for a cheeseburger and he obliged and let her go. He started as a burger cook and along had been forced to stop making delicious food and instead make pseudo art with food.
Also when she is in his room, the only photo where he is smiling is the burger photo.
I am pretty sure the others are like, a wedding and opening a restaurant and other big moments.Â
His entire thing is the demand of his customers has sapped his enjoyment of cooking, but he kills the actor who's movie he didn't enjoy wen the actor specifically said they thought it wasn't great but he had a great time on set.
Yeah, he's self-absorbed and wrapped up in his own bullshit.
Chef was a piece of shit. Dude was harassing female workers and was essentially running a cult. It's sad how he got there but he made the choice. Doesn't change his point Tyler is a shit
Tyler literally wanted to die, he knew all of this was going to happen and still attended. I know what sub we're in but people are just telling on themselves lmao
Tyler you fucking dumbass
you donkey
Rare spotted fucking halibut.
Yes
Yes, Chef!
đđ
đđż Hello there, children!
Yes, Jeff!
Lol I worked at a restaurant where someone literally got fired for saying this exact thing, and not "Chef."
đŁď¸Corner!!!!
Behind!
Heard chef!!
Whatever Jeff!
Cousin!
We love you chef đ
GET THE FUCK OFF MY EXPO CHEF NOW!!!!
Oui, chef!
Heâs literally the only guest that went there knowing theyâll all die
He was excited to be a part of it! I even thought for a second- âdoes he think heâs gonna be eaten?â And he was EXCITED about it.
He literally was there to die and knew it.
I mean... I wouldn't bring a date...
She was hired to be there, he didn't give a rats arse about her.
Well, she was a last-minute replacement....
Tbf he was the only person who actually knew about the whole thing and wanted to die as part of it. That's why it was so emotionally devastating for him when he was asked to leave and he killed himself in the back.
I always assumed he was asked to kill himself.
Nah that's what he wanted. To die. But chef found him completely unworthy of being part of his project and told him to fuck off. And Tyler, wanting desperately to be a part of this but not remotely competent enough to convince Chef otherwise, instead resorted to the suicidal equivalent of Tyler's Bullshit and snuck off into the back to hang himself. It was rushed, ill conceived, and completely disappointing, much like the rest of his life.
I thought he was asked as in, âyouâre worthless. Why donât/you should.â But yours works too
I think it open ended enough that both have an argument for being true.
I always just assumed he basically just insulted him and his profession (foodie blogger bullshit) to a point where he felt completely worthless. I don't think he told him to do anything or go anywhere. But he knew what he would do.
I saw a theory for what was said to him, which was along the lines of "You're not worthy to die as a guest and you're not worthy to die as part of the crew, leave and go do it yourself." Which feels devastating for him as well as fitting in with Slowik's insults
Well, he wasn't *not* part of the project. He was there just as intentionally as everyone else except Margot. Each victim represents a different facet of the things he hates, and he hates the foodie bullshit just as much as anything else. So he very likely planned this part as much as any other part. It was a statement that the obsessive fans who never actually cook contribute nothing and so deserve nothing.
I think he got special treatment because he brought Margot. It could have been planned but immediately prior to having him cook he makes a big deal about how bringing her was both unplanned and a dick move.
Definitely. Which is actually a shit take on Chef's part. Why the fuck can't you enjoy and obsess about something without being good at it? Should we need to be masters to fully enjoy things?
thats not the take from the chef. tyler's foodie bullshit that is annoying is how he is pretentious and tries to insert himself into the food process and act like his fandom elevates him from other people, such as condescending to margot, taking pictures of food despite being asked not to, etx
This is a huge issue in a lot of media fandoms. To the point where I've literally heard toxic fan-boys claim that their years spent "being a fan" should actually entitle them to some say in the creative direction despite having no writing or artistic abilities to speak of. Completely insane.
He wasn't just a fan. He was a snob, someone who used his supposed knowledge of food and cooking to bludgeon others with. Despite never doing it. My take on Tyler is the chef sees him as a stand in for the falseness of people who aren't there for the food, but for the social status. Also, maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the chef confront him with a negative review/comment that he had made? It's like the Teddy Roosevelt quote: âIt is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.â
Similarly: >>In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. -Anton Ego, Ratatouille
I assumed that the noose was already set up for him.
It was his tie I believe.
I rewatched that scene and took a screenshot. He did take off his tie while going into the back. But when you see him hanging, the noose is made of rope. [https://imgur.com/wwvZ1bp](https://imgur.com/wwvZ1bp)
Nothing about that shot tells me its rope
Looks too thin and uniform to me for a tie, but it could be.
A piece of cloth like a tie would stretch and become taut with the weight of a whole person, which would make it thinner and more uniform. It does look more like a rope to me though
Could be one of them door-to-door Mormon ties.
yeh or like a Beatles tie
Idk man, the rope shape and the noose shape just behind his head is pretty convincing
Nothing implies that's rope. It's his tie, they wouldn't have shown him taking it off otherwise. It's probably a rope in reality because a tie isn't holding his body weight.
Holy shit. I never thought of that interpretation but itâs so cool. I just imagined it was criticism that the chef was whispering, but telling him to leave wouldâve been the biggest âfuck youâ imaginable.
Ultimately it was a critique. Everyone was there because in some way they were competent enough at their jobs to spite Chef. But Tyler was somehow the biggest PoS in the entire group because he wasn't spiting chef, but literally everyone. He could have said no, he could have called the cops, but instead he resigned himself and 9 other people to die so he could take pictures of shitty rich people food. Man rode the coattails of other, better men his entire life and Chef's utter rejection of him meant he had nothing left. Leaving would only prove Chef right that he didn't have the commitment to the bit and was only there for clout. So he killed himself in one pathetic act of defiance in the back where no one but he would realize.
succinctly put "I was gonna kill you, but you're such a piece of shit, I'm NOT"
So he's stupid then
I always assumed Chef just whispered 'mediocre'
"Mediocre" would be extremely generous for what he prepared.
I figured Chef just obliterated him emotionally
I wondered what he could have said to Tyler to have that reaction and that does make the most sense.
Werenât there also armed guards everywhere or am I misremembering. Like sure you have 16 hours to get up and possible killed. Cool plan
No just the chefs, who were armed with knives acting as guards. Slowik says at the end the diners had superior numbers and probably could have overwhelmed them if they tried.
That was demoralizing bullshit out of a horrible monstrous man that should have killed himself instead of torturing and killing so many.
Yeah but none of them had any student loans
Yes, but by that point they'd made it clear they're all definitely going to die if they do nothing.
> Werenât there also armed guards everywhere or am I misremembering. Just two big guys at the door. Thatâs it.
What incentive did he have to let the others escape? He never wanted that.
Didn't he already know everyone was going to die? Wasn't that what finally completely turned Margot against him?
Yup
They die now?
I understood that reference
It's funny that saying "I understand that reference" is itself a reference.
Do you think he enjoyed it at the end?
His entire plot is was in on the whole thing. He wanted to be part of Chef's deconstructed suicide bullshit but Chef instead used him as an example of everything wrong with modern foodies and emotionally destroyed him by telling him to gtfo before desert.
I gotta watch this again
Yeah that's why the girl slaps him because she finds out he knew they all were gonna die before inviting her.
That was her idea. The script called for some single tear falling down her face bullshit but ATJ was like âFuck that. If some asshole sets me up to die Iâm going to claw his eyes out.â
Yeah like why wouldn't she slap? At that point in the story why hold back anything.
How can she slap?
She honestly killed it in that role so Iâm glad to hear she had that influence on her character actions in the script
That was his entire thing. He knew they were all going to die but was so desperate to be included he went anyways.
Layers in this movie, man. It definitely deserves a rewatch.
It took me three watches to get the broken emulsion joke
What was the broken emulsion joke?
I'm not sure what jokekiller94 means about the joke. But I just searched and found out that there was a deleted scene where Lillian is waterboarded with broken emulsion. Just a fun fact for you.
Not much of a joke, I think, just an excellent Fuck You to the critic. I was a chef for nearly 20 years, and I'll tell you, emulsion break sometimes. Its not a massive issue, you can just stir it a bit to rebind it. It's just how they are, so for her to single it out as if it's a major issue is waaaay overstating things. It would be like her complaining about the weather or something similarly beyond the chefs control.
I'd watch it 3 times just to hear that woman say tortilla six times.
This is after they gave all the men a âfighting chanceâ to escape and he had to be told he canât just hang out around the servers, he has to try to escape.
I know it's not the point, but I would have baked bread just out of spite
brown or white?
a good ol' sourdough I'd say
Making the starter from scratch, right?
With the sweat pouring from his forehead
Sourdough. Without a start. Get comfy y'all, it's gonna be a while.
I think the point was he was trying to impress the chef. He wasn't looking for an out because he didn't see himself as a hostage to begin with.
Yeah but he should know he canât cook. Maybe he couldâve gotten away with like, making a century egg or something out of spite.
Delusion is a powerful thing. He SHOULD know, but he very much does not.
That's the funniest thing I have read all day
Bake it into a pile of ashes and say that âcharcoalâ is the new culinary trend.
Baking is kind of its own discipline.
He is fucking stupid
He wanted to dieâhe knew about the project the whole time. He had no incentive to help anyone escape.
Could Siskel and Ebbert write an Oscar winning movie? We will never know.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_Valley_of_the_Dolls
I donât fucking see Siskel. Good pull though
Siskel called it one of the worst movies.
It's not good, but like most (all?) Russ Meyer films, it does have huge tracts of land.
John Waters called it one of the best movies of all time. I mean, he is John Waters the Pink Flamingo guy, so of course he would like something like that, but it shows that it does have some appeal
*Charles Champlin of the Los Angeles Times panned the film as "a treat for the emotionally retarded, sexually inadequate and dimwitted.â* Jesus Christ the 70âs were fucking brutal
Not very much a Huzzah moment for him
That was great.
The film is not entirely literal, it's a metaphor for the hospitality industry and the effects that it has on people. So yes, Tyler is stupid. That's kind of the point. He's obsessed with food and hospitality, but he doesn't know how to cook. He is so privileged that he fundamentally doesn't understand the difference between working and consuming and thinks eating makes him part of the team. He's the kind of guy who would pay a sex worker to pretend to be his girlfriend and not realize how pathetic that is.
Right he can't even be bothered to learn the names of the staff or respect the rules for no photos. He wants to be friends with Chef but ignores the ones who are also masters of craft and Chef's apprentices because they are below him in his mind
To be fair, he didnât pay margo to be his fake girlfriend, thatâs just what he told her. He hired her to be a sacrificial lamb (he could only go if he had a partner, and his actual partner did not want to die and left him)
Bingo. All this compounded by Slowik's own contempt for him. Tyler represents the kind of toxic fandom Slowik has come to loathe.
all this "we're above the toxic fans because we really appreciate the craft while they're pretntious" shit feels simultaneously self aggrandizing, un self aware, and stupid.
>self aggrandizing, un self aware, and stupid Well, yeah, wasn't that the point? I don't think we're meant to agree with Slowik's point of view, even if he does raise some interesting points worth exploring, he has clearly taken this too far.
Guys will literally commit mass murder-suicide rather than just go to therapy (that they can easily afford because they're a luxury chef running a private island)
I assumed it was a metaphor for art and performers in general. And the Chef was throwing one final tantrum before ending it all. Unlike the old couple who cared too little, Tyler cared too much. Felt like the director was telling obsessive megafans to touch grass and that liking one thing makes for a terrible personality.
I love all the interpretations of the film! I think itâs about how the rich gatekeep things,like food or art, from the lower classes and use the artists/creators for their own pleasure. Meanwhile, the artists are upset with having their work gatekeeped.
To your last point, that's literally what he did in bringing Margot as a date since she's an escort.
"Thinks eating makes him part of the team". The shortest simplest explanation of Tyler's bullshit I've seen. Thankyou
Fucking love this movie so much. That ending is some of the most satisfying endings I've seen in a while.
Interesting, I thought it was amazing until the third act. Thought the ending kinda sucked after the amazing tension they built throughout.
Is that a hint of bergamot flavoured context clues im detecting?
(annoyed sigh) Yes it is.
I still canât believe I watched this movie with my family.
I still can't believe it's on Disney+ !
Ralph Fiennes is a Disney princess
Just like the grand Budapest
Probably itâs on Hulu, and Disney has begun consolidating the 2.
I recommend watching Pig, The Menu, and Renfield back to back. Pig: Nicolas Cage as the chef Menu: Nicholas Hoult as the foodie Renfield: Nicholas Hoult has to bring food to Nicolas Cage (dracula).
Currently down with an illness and very bored....going to take your suggestion and do a full watch of these three. Thank you!
Thatâs how I feel about watching everything everywhere all at once with my in laws
I had some regrets watching A Serbian Film with my Serbian in-laws to try and get closer to them
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>decisely
Decisely lmao
Feel like you didnât watch the film, he wanted to be apart of it and was the only guest who knew everyone would die. He didnât want people to escape either.
Seems like a few people missed this, which is weird cause it's spelled out explicitly lol
Welcome to Shittymoviedetails. You must be new here.
That's the joke
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Spoilers for the film. His girlfriend didn't show up and so he had to hire a escort. What I have always wondered is what did the girlfriend do to deserve it? Everyone else there is awful in some distinct way, I always though she was a food photographer, someone obsessed with the visual aesthetics of food, who spends her days plastering what she has eaten all over social media but doesn't actually care a whit about what it actually tastes like.
I think the point is that Tyler is a selfish pretentious asshole who only wanted company to show off how much of a food knower he is. He hired the escort because he wanted someone else to be with him so he could bounce off his "knowledge". Even the Chef called him out for it. He didn't care at all about what would happen to someone else, he just wanted to show off
I think what OP is curious about, and which I think is a good question (I don't recall if this was addressed at all in the film), is this: if the chef carefully put together the guest list, down to each person who was *supposed to* be there, what did Tyler's girlfriend do to deserve this meal? It seems that even he didn't plan for Tyler to switch her out for an escort. She wasn't *supposed to* be there. So what about the girlfriend who *was*?
I don't think it really matters since we never find out anything about her. We can just as easily assume that she was as terrible as Tyler simply because she was his girlfriend or if you look at it from Slowik's perspective, she was a "taker" too. Given that she was invited, I think we can just presume she wasn't entirely innocent in Slowik's eyes.
I agree that within the context of the movie, it doesn't matter, but most films have questions like this that don't matter, and sometimes its still just fun to wonder.
She was a food hygiene inspector. The bane of all chefs. He actually hated her the most.
He hired the escort because the minimum allowable reservation was for two people. No singles allowed.
There was originally some one else who was supposed to come with Tyler, but she dumped him and that is why he needed the escort last minute. [Tyler sacrifices Margot in The Menu (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x41QUJzuNUg) Which suggests that she was the absolute worst, as the chef only wants to kill those he dreams has ruined his profession.
>What I have always wondered is what did the girlfriend do to deserve it? Tyler has no empathy, concern or compassion for anyone other than himself and getting a seat at the restaurant. What the girlfriend did or didn't do isn't really relevant since we don't find out much about her. I think we can just presume Slowik felt she was guilty by association.
Maybe But the chef had planned on killing everyone there, either they are part of it in his culinary cult, or they are the customers, each customer representing some slight agaisnt his profession. That is why he is so uncomfortable with Margo being there, in his eyes she is innocent, just another service industry average joe. It seems out of character and worse from his point of view messy, and unthematic, to have planned for an entirely innocent person to turn up just to kill them, even if it was part of Tylers punishment.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood. I thought you were asking from Tyler's perspective. As for why Slowik decided that his girlfriend deserved to die as well, I think without knowing much about her, we can just assume that Slowik felt she was a "taker" too and guilty by association when it comes to Tyler. Something that Margot wasn't, and was only present because she was providing a service.
If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die historic on the fury road.
All guests are affluent, right? So this guy is probably some uber rich kid who had never even held a pan before.
Well other than the assistant to the actor and the hooker
The assistant was stealing money from him and went to an Ivy league school not on scholarship. She was also rich lol.
Yeah that was the whole point of her 2 lines. That she was privileged and wasted it
Homie forgot the best joke in the movie. "What school did you go to?" "Brown." "Student loans?" "No..." "I'm sorry you're dying."
Anya's character is the only one who didn't deserve it, that was kind of the point of the movie.
In the chef's eyes at least. The actor was just putting out goofy low effort films and got murdered for it.
Yeah. To me this is the bit that goes against the message of the film. Like...here's a guy who is content to make art that isn't perfection. He enjoys it, at least somewhat, and unlike the chef he does not appear to have become jaded or spiteful from his craft. To me, that means he was similar to the chef, but chose a different conclusion. Whats wrong with that?
His movie ruined the Chef's one day off he had in months. I'd kill him too.
That was his own fault for being so pretentious about reviews that he didn't do any due diligence on the film he was watching.
Which largely invalidates his issues with the food critic, the actor was known for doing bad movies because critics did their job, Slowic was just too much of an ass to trust their opinion and then got upset when they were right.
Also, he can just take more days off. Itâs not like he wouldnât have the means to do so, as a world famous chef. He is just too obsessed with his work.
None of them deserved to die. The chef was insane.
I mean...one guy was fantasizing about fucking his daughter lol.
The actor and his assistant didn't deserve to die either, Slowic chastised the food critic heavily for her role in shuttering restaurants that failed to meet her standards, and then completely ignores the role of critics in another art form to prevent him from seeing a dumpster-fire movie. You can't get upset at critics for doing their job and also get upset when you're too pretentious to follow their suggestions. IMO the actor shouldn't have even been in the movie, it eroded Slowic's motivations down to a petty revenge tantrum. The assistant was needed for the whole 'no singles' plot rule but she didn't do anything to Slowic either and was an untidy end to everything. I wish they went with a different subplot instead to pad the movie, like having the founder be present as a guest for the initial courses.
There are some good essays on Tyler's character and role in the film. [I really like this one](https://www.robertmitchellevans.com/2023/01/11/a-study-of-the-toxic-fanboy-tyler-in-the-menu/#:~:text=While%20Tyler%20is%20in%20fact,escort%20for%20an%20evening%20date.) and specifically this bit towards the end: >Tylerâs obsession is not the honor that Chef wants for his skill. Slowik hates Tyler for his pathetic, fawning, idolization and it was not enough for Chef that Tyler die along with himself, the staff, and the other diners, but Tylerâs humiliation was required. >Turning into the film third act, Chef Slowik pulls Tyler from his seat and, after dressing him as a chef, brings him into the kitchen to display his own culinary talents. >Of which Tyler has none. >Like so many dedicate, noisy, bossy, and opinionated fanboys Tyler when faced with creating a work in the art he knows so well fails miserably producing the supplemental course labeled Tylerâs Bullshit. For all his posturing, pronouncements, and peacocking Tyler is revealed an empty vessel with nothing of his own to contribute.
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^^"omelette ^^du ^^fromage"
"I'm gonna make stone soup, Chef." "But that means-" "Yes, Chef. It never stops cooking."
a man who says he plans to kill you and you stand around next to a cornucopia of sharp knives, and at least 1 .45 pistol wrapped up in a carpet in the back and you just eat the next course?
It's a dining room full of rich stereoptypically pampered people, several of which are older/elderly. The kitchen staff outnumber them and are shown to be almost all young, muscular, and importantly .. are the people who are holding those knives. The part i don't buy is how quickly they recaptured the guests in that whole "we'll give you a chance to escape" segment, especially the ones that just hid. Finding people, who don't want to be found, in an unlit wooded area at night is not achievable in the timespan of a single course. But i also don't care, great movie. Watched' it a bunch of times, it has so much rewatch value.
Wasn't it shown before that all of the staff on the island basically lived there in those sleeping quarters? I'm not too surprised they would know the layout of the island and especially when they are all trained to be absolute perfectionists with no mess-ups, especially for this planned night.
It is well made movie but it pissed me off too much for me to rewatch, it has stuck with me a lot longer than most movies. but the whole oh my you think I should die so I'm going to just fall over and curl up
they only had like a minute head start though, presumably the staff each had someone they were assigned to watch so even with the 45 seconds you have a pretty good general idea where they are going
Mmmmmm "Ample"
Unironically yes. By failing to properly participate in the night he ruined it for chef, who he worshipped, and the best representation of this is that by refusing to properly try and run he missed out on the special dish for the last guest found, meanwhile he would have done anything to taste more of chef's food, as demonstrated by his assaulting the women's leftovers like a lunatic. Unironically he is an idiot. Also, the whole point is to breakdown the guests before they die. Of course he wouldn't be exempt from that.
He knew they were all going to die, he had no intention to help them.
Chef be like "...boo hoo hoo rich people don't appreciate my art of cooking so I'm gonna kill myself even though I'm also rich af and I could literally save poor kids lives with my money" Selfish asshole
I donât think youâre supposed to like the Chef in this movie either lol
Yeah the point of the movie is that everyone involved is an asshole but the hooker
The entire end of the movie is the hooker helping him discover just a little bit of humanity he had left
Yup, beautiful scene where for a few moments the chef gets to remember when he was truly happy
Fienne's acting when she asks for the cheeseburger was incredible. You can see him connecting the dots that she found his room, and realizing that she understands him in the way he was trying to understand her for most of the movie.
Better acting in that one scene than I've seen in entire movies.
This is a plot hole because all the workers in fast food joints experience nothing but abject misery and chronic stress.
All of them except for the few that find a passion for it and go on to be world class chefs.
What did his mother do to deserve to die btw? All I remember her doing was getting drunker and drunker.
I always took it as she was a huge alcoholic when he was growing up and probably abused him as a result.
The dude who retaliated on his employee for rejecting his repeated sexual advances? C'mon, Hollywood encourages us to like those kinds of people for sure.
I think you completely missed the point of the movie. The chef was fed up with what the cooking scene had become and how it was no longer about the food itself and just making something that tastes good. It had been ruined by food critics who demanded that everything has to have some deep meaning and the presentation just had to say something meaningful about the world. In the end, the chef just wanted to make good food. Thatâs why the hooker asked for a cheeseburger and he obliged and let her go. He started as a burger cook and along had been forced to stop making delicious food and instead make pseudo art with food.
Also when she is in his room, the only photo where he is smiling is the burger photo. I am pretty sure the others are like, a wedding and opening a restaurant and other big moments.Â
>I think you completely missed the point of the movie. Reading through most of these replies, I think they are in good company.
oh? the person who trapped a bunch of people in a building to kill them all is an asshole?
His entire thing is the demand of his customers has sapped his enjoyment of cooking, but he kills the actor who's movie he didn't enjoy wen the actor specifically said they thought it wasn't great but he had a great time on set. Yeah, he's self-absorbed and wrapped up in his own bullshit.
Chef's Bullshit
Chef was a piece of shit. Dude was harassing female workers and was essentially running a cult. It's sad how he got there but he made the choice. Doesn't change his point Tyler is a shit
Tyler literally wanted to die, he knew all of this was going to happen and still attended. I know what sub we're in but people are just telling on themselves lmao
He gave 2 shits about the other guests. He got a poor sex worker involved and was willing to let her die cause he was a big fking fan
Tylerâs Bullshit: - pressure cooker - explosives