If we do keep the pick, which would be stupid, then I really think we may need to go Edey. We need a backup big.
I think you have to hope with his size and improved footwork last season that he may be able to give you 15 minutes a game where he grabs boards and mismatches the other team.
Keeping the pick would be dumb. The only play we have is to trade that pick for Jimmy or George. And I don’t love that play either. But it’s all we got.
Those 8 minutes in the playoffs are the 8 minutes that have lost us the most playoff series since we started making the playoffs. When Embiid is off the floor we are fucking terrible.
So if we are forced to pick our own player because Morey can’t make a deal, because he’s overrated and somehow has taken zero accountability for his tenure here, I would consider picking Edey. He’s polarizing for a reason. There is potential upside there.
> Those 8 minutes in the playoffs are the 8 minutes that have lost us the most playoff series since we started making the playoffs. When Embiid is off the floor we are fucking terrible.
We weren't terrible because of the backup C this year. We were terrible because we had no offense with Embiid off the court.
24 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed +8.37 net rating. Reed/No Joel -49.17.
22 & 23: Joel/no Reed +1.65 net rating. Reed/No Joel +3.52.
There's a high chance Edey isn't even an NBA player, let alone be someone we can run our offense through in the playoffs as a rookie.
>
> So if we are forced to pick our own player because Morey can’t make a deal, because he’s overrated and somehow has taken zero accountability for his tenure here, I would consider picking Edey. He’s polarizing for a reason. There is potential upside there.
If the upside is someone playing like 8mpg that's not much upside.
Nicely put. The whole fanbase has this mentality where if Embiid subs out and we become garbage -> that's 100% on the backup center.
In reality, it means that the backup 5 + literally every other starter we have just can't generate offense without the big guy pulling in 2 defenders on any given play. Only way to fix that is hope Maxey becomes a superstar or pair him next to another star
Do me a favor and separate the numbers between 22 and 23 because you’re definitely combining them on purpose to make a number that better fits your narrative. Thanks.
Paul Reed was bad in the playoffs this year. He’s not it. He’s not a backup. It’s a blessing we don’t have to pay Reed.
Again. I don’t have a big issue with taking Edey if we fail to move the pick. So take this all with the massive disclaimer that I want the pick moved at all costs.
> Do me a favor and separate the numbers between 22 and 23 because you’re definitely combining them on purpose to make a number that better fits your narrative. Thanks.
I'm not, but here you go:
23 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed -1.46 net rating. Reed/No Joel +5.24
22 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed +4.40 net rating. Reed/No Joel +1.66
> Paul Reed was bad in the playoffs this year. He’s not it. He’s not a backup. It’s a blessing we don’t have to pay Reed.
I agree Reed was bad this year. He still wasn't the main problem. We have survived the last two playoffs with him.
No backup center is going to carry our offense when Embiid is off the court.
> Again. I don’t have a big issue with taking Edey if we fail to move the pick. So take this all with the massive disclaimer that I want the pick moved at all costs.
Our problems will definitely not be solved by wasting a pick on a player that has zero chance of sharing the court with Embiid even in the best case scenario.
We survived? We haven’t made it past the second round.
I don’t know. These past playoffs in a contract year he was unplayable. We lucked out not having to pay him. Again. We need to move the pick and sign an actual backup.
But I think Edey showed improvement in his footwork so there’s a better than not chance he’s not Boban which everyone fears. Edey is actually athletic. Boban looks like he has Marfan Syndrome and is from Middle Earth.
> We survived? We haven’t made it past the second round.
Is our backup C supposed to carry us to the Finals?
In the minutes without Embiid, yes we survived. We won the minutes without him those 2 years. There's not much more you can ask for.
> I don’t know. These past playoffs in a contract year he was unplayable. We lucked out not having to pay him. Again. We need to move the pick and sign an actual backup.
I agree he was bad in the playoffs this year, and I'm not against moving him if necessary, but he was not the main problem.
The offense was.
The offensive rating dropped from 124 with Embiid to 79 without him in the playoffs.
> But I think Edey showed improvement in his footwork so there’s a better than not chance he’s not Boban which everyone fears. Edey is actually athletic. Boban looks like he has Marfan Syndrome and is from Middle Earth.
He's not Boban, but he's still pretty slow and can't really survive in space. He even got picked on in college in space. That's gonna be 100x worse in the NBA.
And again even if he is the best he can be, that's still a waste for someone who can't play with Embiid.
We need an actual other good scorer than Maxey and Embiid. Tobias is legitimately one of the worst things to ever happen in the franchise’s history.
George and Jimmy are likely not going to happen as we are not an appealing destination. We are just a leverage play since we have money and space.
Morey is a below average GM so I’m operating with the belief that just like he failed to move Tobias he will fail miserably in acquiring the right talent for arguably the last year of Embiids championship window as the best player on a team.
So. In that case. This draft sucks. Edey is the most polarizing player in the draft. If we lose again this year the team is getting blown up anyway.
This draft sucks for top end stars, but there will always be solid role players.
They aren't trading Embiid unless he asks for it.
And even if they did Edey is not going to replace him lol. Even with a high-end outcome he's nothing more than a role player unless he completely changes his game.
It's not like he's some athletic freshman early in his development.
Polarizing =/= great high upside player.
Ignoring the "LeBron to Philly" stuff for a second, I genuinely can't see JJ becoming the next Lakers coach. I feel like someone just took the fact that JJ and LeBron have a podcast and ran with it as a juicy piece of gossip. Like... why would a coach and his best player release 10+ hours revealing their strategies and tendencies towards approaching the game?
Hope is definitely dimming, especially if this offseason goes the way it seems to be going.
I’m just hoping to see one competitive ECF out of our guys. Realistically, I know expecting a championship run from this team is probably way too big of an ask. We’ve made too many mistakes.
in an age of parity, if you have a ~top 10 player, making the jump to contender is always very possible. if you look at the contending teams from these playoffs:
* the celtics looked cooked after the first half of 2022
* the mavs missed the play-in literally last year
* the wolves looked liked they totally mortgaged their future for nothing
i feel better about the sixers now than any of those teams at their troughs of this era.
(i'm not going to count the pacers but that run was flukey af)
if you look at the contending teams of the 2020s, a lot of them were in similar positions to the sixers a year or two prior to their peaks - two all-stars, but the wrong collection of role players around them. obv this doesn't guarantee success, but i would not be surprised if, say, the sixers are in the ecf next year with home-court advantage. weirder things have happened.
All of these great defenses we’ve been seeing in the playoffs fall apart and when tasked with stopping embiid. There isn’t a single team with a chance of stopping him from having his way 1 on 1.
If we put a few guys that aren’t afraid to shoot next to him, when you factor in how much his passing has improved, that will take away their chance to double him effectively too.
He was dropping 50 and having monster defensive games w/o even being able to jump for his signature middies this year.
This will be his first season playing without okafor or Harris
Instead of becoming a better basketball team after we lost to the Heat: “We got to get tougher.”
Morey then proceeds to overpay for PJ Tucker and cripple the offense.
"Overpay PJ Tucker"
He gave PJ Tucker the MLE which we wouldn't have had without him convincing Harden to sign for less.
So he essentially got PJ for free, which is the opposite of an "overpay"
>He is a minimum contract level talent if that.
Not with us he wasn't. And yes it was for free because that cap space *would've* belonged solely to James Harden.
He just reallocated Hardens money for an extra starter. That's the opposite of an overpay, and 11m is a drop in the bucket anyways
If PJ Tucker is overpaid then Paul Reed was an albatross last season
Reading the tea leaves with JJ prob going to lakers and the magic reports about PG. I think we are gonna strike out on both! Welcome home brandon Ingram!
Cause the pelicans don’t want to get particularly more expensive and they are losing their wing depth this year, probably two firsts and a rotational player would do I’d imagine, maybe even a 1st if the player was good enough
Especially when college bball is a sinking ship. Insanely wild to turn down $70m guaranteed and living in LA
Maybe Hurley thinks some other NBA opportunity will come up? But I doubt it'll be as good as this one, especially when college coaches have a subpar reputation
Oh, most definitely. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about their clown shoes front office, and how that is viewed by people considering going there in terms of the opportunity for success.
I can't help but think what if we had Batum instead of PJ Tucker 2 years ago...better shooter, better passer, and honestly maybe even better defense (Tucker fouled too much, could never get away with being so aggressive)
Anyway, please re-sign Batum.
Quite incredible how Tatum can shoot so poor and be up 2-0. Of course because they win, the narrative is “he’s doing what it takes to win” that’s not to say he isn’t still doing other things well but wins reframe it. Hes incredibly fortunate that how many of his teammates can drop 20 + and you would not be surprised.
Winning cures all but no one else gets those type of kid gloves.
This team is loaded and often times he doesn’t even look like the leader. I wish Jojo could afford to play that bad and win.
I'm a Cs fan, so I have a dog in the fight, and I'd like to offer a Cs fan perspective.
First, let me agree - Tatum is incredibly fortunate with the team he has, his shot profile is sometimes mind-blowingly frustrating, and he's mired in a deep shooting slump right now. Embiid in the same situation would be getting as much or more heat, no doubt.
There's something people tend to forget, though...Tatums natural position is small forward. He's listed at 6'8", may be 6'9" now at most. Strong but skinny - genuinely 235 or so, 240 at most. He's not Lebron size. Despite that, he leading the Celtics in rebounding, top 7 or so in the playoffs. Celtics switching defensive plan has him defending opposition centers a lot these playoffs - Bam, Mobley, Gafford, etc, then switching to mobile players like Luka, Siakam, Mitchell, etc. So he goes from muscling with size to covering speed, then back, pretty constantly. And he just sucks it up and does it. It's not really a surprise that his drives and jumpers don't have lift right now.
The way I see it, he's taking one for the team. He's top 10 in the playoffs in rpg, apg and fta, top 15 in scoring despite the shooting slump, all while playing 41 minutes a game. He's doing the necessary and putting the team first. Can't ask for more.
Link to a better comment on Tatum, conditioning and efficiency. https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1dcjr8y/serious_next_day_thread_postgame_discussion_june/l80f8bb/
You phrase a team being “loaded” as a bad thing, what’s up with the fixation on Tatum? Good teams have multiple scoring threats and the stars should also have the ability to be off-ball / complementary players regardless of the defensive coverages or whether their shots are falling. It’s what makes the Celtics successful. Meanwhile the Sixers fall short every year because we rely on two guys to do everything, which works just well enough in the regular season that we get complacent and fall flat when the postseason defensive schemes tighten up.
I was saying it at the trade deadline that the team would not go anywhere without a big pickup. We were by far the most top-heavy scoring team (about 50% of our points came from two guys). That isn’t Boston’s fault or problem.
Anybody who knew basketball knew this team was destined for a 1st round exit after the disastrous offseason. There’s no way you trade Harden for Covington, Morris and Batum and don’t experience a drop-off.
I hear ya, but I still think it’s a reach to say he played badly. He had a few bad shot selections but was making good reads all game and playing great team defense.
His ts was 36% lmfao he didn’t lead the team yesterday and in another timeline probably shot them out the game. His teammates weren’t that good yesterday and he couldn’t turn it on, Luka’s teammates have just been so bad that it doesn’t matter
Yeah I think the Nuggets playing the Celtics would've turned out pretty much like playing the Wolves. They've got a ton of length and play excellent team defense, which is a pretty hard counter to Denver's team oriented offense. All that plus the Celtics have like 5 more deadly 3 point shooters in their rotation than Minnesota lol
Celtics had no KP for a while during playoffs but nobody mentions that. They rested guys down stretch because they had such a huge standings cushion. Other teams had to play their guys for position. It's not like the Celtics were an 8 seed that got lucky with injuries against teams that likely would have beaten them. They won all those series 4-0 and 4-1 and now up 2-0 and would likely have won all those series anyway (though maybe not sweeps or 4-1, but certainly would have been favored). This is a silly argument. They were the best team all season and now they're in position to win it all, after being on the cusp for years. You can't take anything away from them because other people couldn't stay healthy.
lmao bruh what in gods name do you want them to do other than play who is in front of them? this is why you get first by a mile and coast the final month resting all your players to prevent injuries. literally exactly what Denver did to win the chip last year and what Boston did to win it this year. like….this is the blueprint. this is exactly what you’re supposed to do.
I mean the heat are legit the perfect example. had to play the play ins instead of going directly to the playoffs and what happened? Jimmy got injured.
>I mean the heat are legit the perfect example. had to play the play ins instead of going directly to the playoffs and what happened? Jimmy got injured.
The 2023 Play-In Heat made the Finals bruh
Maxey has to be our worst defender on the court. If there’s a guy you like who’s worse at defense they’ll have to come off the bench.. but realistically probably shouldn’t even be in the team.
Adding point of attack defenders around Maxey and a rangey 4 next to Joel would give us a great shot at building a competing team.
Caruso is an obvious target, but I also hope we target Herb Jones, Davion Mitchell, and one of Tari Eason/Pat Williams/Jon Isaac/Deni Avidja around those two since they’re excellent defenders on cheap contracts and would only cost draft picks/S&T players.
Also think Keldon Johnson could be a great two-way weapon on a winning team as a third/fourth/sixth man option.
Martin twins are interesting as well.
I was in on Keldon but the entire spurs sub seems in agreement that Keldon is a 0 on the defensive end, has scared me out of him some
100% agree abt the Martin twins.
With Keldon, I think some of that may be bc he’s been in a losing situation his entire career and it’s easier to mail it in defensively when your team doesn’t really have a shot to win most nights.
I’d take the bet that in a better situation on a better team he could lock in more on that side (similar to Oubre). He has all the physical tools to be a really really good defender.
I’m not really sure his lateral quickness is anywhere close to the level of oubre’s. Oubre’s issue was mainly falling asleep off ball. Oubre was elite at generating deflections, even in Charlotte. Keldon generates half the deflections Kelly does. Seems like spurs fans are saying he gets blown by 3s and is better on 4s. But being 6’5” and a below average rebounder for a 4 worries me some.
Lateral quickness may not be there but his strength is. I do see him as more of a 3/4 defender while Oubre is more of a 2/3 defender.
So much of defense imo is how much someone wants to guard, so maybe Keldon doesn’t want to. I would have to see him in a winning situation for that, but I think the tools (especially his strength) is there to be impactful.
If his offense was a sure thing I’d be less concerned. But his offensive game is the same thing, something you’re projecting that he hasn’t shown. He’s not really great at any particular skill on offense. Average shooter, not a great ball handler or passer. What’s even more worrisome is that with Wemby, he had a lower usage role yet was out of place. How’s that going to translate to playing next to Joel and Maxey?
Honestly a ton of his profile is similar to Tobi, he may be more athletic but is smaller, a worse shooter and rebounder
Yep, and that's always going to be the issue team building around and/or with him. You have to start from the position that he has to be your one weak link defensively, and adding any others just kills you come playoffs. It's a real challenge for Morey
The bigger issue is that right now he’s a shooting guard stuck in a point guard’s body. He’s a great shooter and finisher but not a great shot/space creator. His facilitating has improved and is by no means bad but it isn’t up to par with most all nba level pgs. Solid rebounding/defensive instincts but he’s too small to take advantage of them.
If Maxey’s playmaking takes another step then you could get away with a Herb Jones/Lu Dort, defense-heavy backcourt partner.
Yeah this is why I'm pretty pro-playmaking wing at this point. It's gonna be tough to find the opposite of Maxey - a point guard in a shooting guard's body - outside of Dejounte (who I'd still love to get). But otherwise, I think you just prioritize getting a wing who can facilitate and load on some good defenders. That pretty much narrows it down to BI, Jimmy, and LeBron... depending on who you think is realistic.
Winning really does change everything. Celtics have a slightly less deep team, or the Mavs don't blow, and JT has a performance like last night and he's getting (understandably) slandered to hell and back.
But since they win, the commentary is "he couldn't shoot for shit but was invaluable on defense and had amazing rebounds. Plus, his gravity!! Look at how they collapse on him in the paint!"
Both are right. Where it goes wrong is comparing him to stars who don’t have Jrue, KP, White or Brown to prop up their bad nights. 24 Cs is 04 Pistons. Not the exact same type of team but in a we have so many top 50 guys on one team that it’s really hard to beat us
It's pretty wild that nobody really knows/can agree on Tatum's status in the league because his team is always so damn good lol. He's never gonna be a realistic MVP candidate as long as his teammates are so good, but he's typically a consensus All-NBA First Team guy due to be one of the best forwards in the game. But is he a top 5 player? Nobody knows. What would he look like on a shit team? Nobody knows...
Pretty hilarious that this organization had chances to draft Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown yet drafted absolute BUMS like Okafor, Simmons, and Fultz. Yes I get the whole “at the time it was the right move”, but to blow that many top 3 picks? YUCK.
Embiid is the only thing that makes this franchise good instead of poverty. Take him out of the equation and this is a bottom 5 team. Seriously. Their record without him this year is bottom 5 in terms of win %. Time and time again, these fucking idiots failed to build around him.
Ironically, Embiid and Porzingis would be absolutely dirty lol. Kinda short sighted on Tingis' part too because IIRC he preferred to play the 4 at the time
Funny thing with the Tatum 6-22 discourse is that he was actually good; just shoot poorly. He was aggressive all game, got to the rim literally at will, collapsed the defense and moved the ball quickly, had the entire offense clicking. Not to mention he was more than solid defensively.
It was sort of like the typical Joel Embiid playoff experience, in that he was overwhelmingly positive on both ends, but people saw a bad shooting statline and that's all they could understand. Except with Joel it's even more pronounced, obvioulsy.
Bro the fact the mavericks and their garbage ass roster made it farther than we ever had is the biggest inditement on this franchise. People here tried to convince me they were good lmao
I mean they made the conference finals what just 2 seasons or so ago too? Luka is just that good. Already has 5x first team all nba already in just 6 years.
The collar man loves his euros so he would definitely pick Luka even with the no1 pick. But then he may actually stay here and create the worst possible team around him. Or maybe the sixers would have killed Luka with some type of allergy.
They're not garbage, they're pretty well constructed around Luka and role players go cold cuz they're role players
I think this is basically the best you could construct a roster around Luka (a co-creator/off-ball threat in Kyrie, multiple lob threats, athletic 3&D guys, and a stretch 5 who doesn't suck on defense for good measure), just like the 2018 Rockets were probably the best you could build around Harden. At some point, maybe heliocentric ball doesn't work... It seems like there's always a team with excellent team offense/defense that those helio teams bump into (like the Warriors, the Nuggets, or current Celtics)
We weren’t going to make it that far either. Embiid would’ve gotten injured, Tobias would be a ghost, and the role players would fail to live up to expectations.
I dunno, they have Herb Jones and Trey Murphy already. IMO they'd probably want their guard of the future and want to move on from McCollum at some point.
The Donovan Mitchell situation is floating around out there and fairly interesting... both us and Pels send a pick to Cleveland, Mitchell to Pelicans, BI to us, McCollum to Cleveland?
Fair and I feel like everybody's ignoring Mitchell as a semi-realistic possibility. People turn their nose up at him and Maxey both being small but the dude has been a top 5 MVP candidate for Cleveland and has put some of the best gems in postseason history.
Not sure how we'd get him though, since like you said, Cleveland's gonna wanna continue competing and not just want picks.
Plus both him and Maxey are solid defenders despite being small. And it wouldn’t be a “I go, you go” relationship because Maxey is more of an offball threat at this point rather than a playmaker. Oooo now I’m getting excited about something that’ll never happen lol
Can probably loop in the Blazers and send the 2 picks we give them there for Jerami 🤷🏼♀️
That's a them problem not an us problem - they know what we can offer
I wouldn't hate it but he should be pretty fucking far down the list of preferred targets just cuz of his contract. The good news is that we might be able to get him for cheap (maybe one FRP?) due to his contract though.
His contract really is that bad considering the landscape of deals. Pg and Ingram will be at $50M over the next 4 years, Grant around $30M per year is fairly palatable. Not as good of a contract as Kuzma’s for sure but not terrible
Yeah the year to year number is decent though the length worries me. You gotta be very confident in that move because if he doesn't look good for us, we're probably riding that contract out. Don't wanna end up in another Tobias deal where he's hovering in that situation where he's underperforming and therefore hard to trade.
It’s not nearly the % of the cap the Tobi deal was. Tobi was making $40M this year, Grant was at $27M. Tobi’s contract was literally 50% more per year in a lower salary cap environment lol. Grant doesn’t even get to $36M in ‘27-28 if he picks up his option.
It's not one-to-one but I'd just be wary of taking on a long contract that seems somewhat hard to move, and I imagine Morey's thinking the same. He very much seems like he'd want to grab an expiring/short term guy and re-sign him if he does well
And I’m just saying it wouldn’t hard to move. Portland will get a pick or two for Grant right now with 3 years + a PO remaining. That Tobi contract would’ve needed multiple picks to dump the second it was inked. No one wanted to trade for Tobi with 2 years remaining on his deal, Portland will have a market today of a few teams with 4 years remaining for Grant. The PG contract will be the one to compare to Tobi’s deal, not grant.
Plus if grant just plays to his level the last few years he probably will decline his player option in the final year for a long term contract at a lower number (kinda like KP did).
Anyone else think drafting Kel’el Ware would be fun as hell? I’d love a mobile big who could both play with Embiid and man the five when Embiid rests.
How in the name of god could ware play next to embiid?
If we do keep the pick, which would be stupid, then I really think we may need to go Edey. We need a backup big. I think you have to hope with his size and improved footwork last season that he may be able to give you 15 minutes a game where he grabs boards and mismatches the other team.
If you think keeping the pick is dumb, why would you want to make it worse by picking a player who at best is playing like 8pmg in the playoffs?
Keeping the pick would be dumb. The only play we have is to trade that pick for Jimmy or George. And I don’t love that play either. But it’s all we got. Those 8 minutes in the playoffs are the 8 minutes that have lost us the most playoff series since we started making the playoffs. When Embiid is off the floor we are fucking terrible. So if we are forced to pick our own player because Morey can’t make a deal, because he’s overrated and somehow has taken zero accountability for his tenure here, I would consider picking Edey. He’s polarizing for a reason. There is potential upside there.
> Those 8 minutes in the playoffs are the 8 minutes that have lost us the most playoff series since we started making the playoffs. When Embiid is off the floor we are fucking terrible. We weren't terrible because of the backup C this year. We were terrible because we had no offense with Embiid off the court. 24 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed +8.37 net rating. Reed/No Joel -49.17. 22 & 23: Joel/no Reed +1.65 net rating. Reed/No Joel +3.52. There's a high chance Edey isn't even an NBA player, let alone be someone we can run our offense through in the playoffs as a rookie. > > So if we are forced to pick our own player because Morey can’t make a deal, because he’s overrated and somehow has taken zero accountability for his tenure here, I would consider picking Edey. He’s polarizing for a reason. There is potential upside there. If the upside is someone playing like 8mpg that's not much upside.
Nicely put. The whole fanbase has this mentality where if Embiid subs out and we become garbage -> that's 100% on the backup center. In reality, it means that the backup 5 + literally every other starter we have just can't generate offense without the big guy pulling in 2 defenders on any given play. Only way to fix that is hope Maxey becomes a superstar or pair him next to another star
Do me a favor and separate the numbers between 22 and 23 because you’re definitely combining them on purpose to make a number that better fits your narrative. Thanks. Paul Reed was bad in the playoffs this year. He’s not it. He’s not a backup. It’s a blessing we don’t have to pay Reed. Again. I don’t have a big issue with taking Edey if we fail to move the pick. So take this all with the massive disclaimer that I want the pick moved at all costs.
> Do me a favor and separate the numbers between 22 and 23 because you’re definitely combining them on purpose to make a number that better fits your narrative. Thanks. I'm not, but here you go: 23 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed -1.46 net rating. Reed/No Joel +5.24 22 Playoffs: Joel/no Reed +4.40 net rating. Reed/No Joel +1.66 > Paul Reed was bad in the playoffs this year. He’s not it. He’s not a backup. It’s a blessing we don’t have to pay Reed. I agree Reed was bad this year. He still wasn't the main problem. We have survived the last two playoffs with him. No backup center is going to carry our offense when Embiid is off the court. > Again. I don’t have a big issue with taking Edey if we fail to move the pick. So take this all with the massive disclaimer that I want the pick moved at all costs. Our problems will definitely not be solved by wasting a pick on a player that has zero chance of sharing the court with Embiid even in the best case scenario.
We survived? We haven’t made it past the second round. I don’t know. These past playoffs in a contract year he was unplayable. We lucked out not having to pay him. Again. We need to move the pick and sign an actual backup. But I think Edey showed improvement in his footwork so there’s a better than not chance he’s not Boban which everyone fears. Edey is actually athletic. Boban looks like he has Marfan Syndrome and is from Middle Earth.
> We survived? We haven’t made it past the second round. Is our backup C supposed to carry us to the Finals? In the minutes without Embiid, yes we survived. We won the minutes without him those 2 years. There's not much more you can ask for. > I don’t know. These past playoffs in a contract year he was unplayable. We lucked out not having to pay him. Again. We need to move the pick and sign an actual backup. I agree he was bad in the playoffs this year, and I'm not against moving him if necessary, but he was not the main problem. The offense was. The offensive rating dropped from 124 with Embiid to 79 without him in the playoffs. > But I think Edey showed improvement in his footwork so there’s a better than not chance he’s not Boban which everyone fears. Edey is actually athletic. Boban looks like he has Marfan Syndrome and is from Middle Earth. He's not Boban, but he's still pretty slow and can't really survive in space. He even got picked on in college in space. That's gonna be 100x worse in the NBA. And again even if he is the best he can be, that's still a waste for someone who can't play with Embiid.
We need an actual other good scorer than Maxey and Embiid. Tobias is legitimately one of the worst things to ever happen in the franchise’s history. George and Jimmy are likely not going to happen as we are not an appealing destination. We are just a leverage play since we have money and space. Morey is a below average GM so I’m operating with the belief that just like he failed to move Tobias he will fail miserably in acquiring the right talent for arguably the last year of Embiids championship window as the best player on a team. So. In that case. This draft sucks. Edey is the most polarizing player in the draft. If we lose again this year the team is getting blown up anyway.
This draft sucks for top end stars, but there will always be solid role players. They aren't trading Embiid unless he asks for it. And even if they did Edey is not going to replace him lol. Even with a high-end outcome he's nothing more than a role player unless he completely changes his game. It's not like he's some athletic freshman early in his development. Polarizing =/= great high upside player.
Looney would've been great a couple years ago, but he is pretty cooked at this point.
There's no chance he is mobile or tall enough to offer any resistance at the rim.
Ignoring the "LeBron to Philly" stuff for a second, I genuinely can't see JJ becoming the next Lakers coach. I feel like someone just took the fact that JJ and LeBron have a podcast and ran with it as a juicy piece of gossip. Like... why would a coach and his best player release 10+ hours revealing their strategies and tendencies towards approaching the game?
A good GM could turn the Sixers into a clear finals contender.
They were a finals contender this year before Joe got hurt.
starting to lose optimism in seeing a sixers championship during the embiid era, someone give me hope / copium
You still have optimism? Lol
Hope is definitely dimming, especially if this offseason goes the way it seems to be going. I’m just hoping to see one competitive ECF out of our guys. Realistically, I know expecting a championship run from this team is probably way too big of an ask. We’ve made too many mistakes.
in an age of parity, if you have a ~top 10 player, making the jump to contender is always very possible. if you look at the contending teams from these playoffs: * the celtics looked cooked after the first half of 2022 * the mavs missed the play-in literally last year * the wolves looked liked they totally mortgaged their future for nothing i feel better about the sixers now than any of those teams at their troughs of this era. (i'm not going to count the pacers but that run was flukey af) if you look at the contending teams of the 2020s, a lot of them were in similar positions to the sixers a year or two prior to their peaks - two all-stars, but the wrong collection of role players around them. obv this doesn't guarantee success, but i would not be surprised if, say, the sixers are in the ecf next year with home-court advantage. weirder things have happened.
Embiid-Maxey is probably going to be the best duo in the NBA next season.
All of these great defenses we’ve been seeing in the playoffs fall apart and when tasked with stopping embiid. There isn’t a single team with a chance of stopping him from having his way 1 on 1. If we put a few guys that aren’t afraid to shoot next to him, when you factor in how much his passing has improved, that will take away their chance to double him effectively too. He was dropping 50 and having monster defensive games w/o even being able to jump for his signature middies this year. This will be his first season playing without okafor or Harris
Instead of becoming a better basketball team after we lost to the Heat: “We got to get tougher.” Morey then proceeds to overpay for PJ Tucker and cripple the offense.
"Overpay PJ Tucker" He gave PJ Tucker the MLE which we wouldn't have had without him convincing Harden to sign for less. So he essentially got PJ for free, which is the opposite of an "overpay"
Still an overpay. He is a minimum contract level talent if that. 6’ 5’’ PF who can only hit wide open corner threes
>He is a minimum contract level talent if that. Not with us he wasn't. And yes it was for free because that cap space *would've* belonged solely to James Harden. He just reallocated Hardens money for an extra starter. That's the opposite of an overpay, and 11m is a drop in the bucket anyways If PJ Tucker is overpaid then Paul Reed was an albatross last season
Fair enough. I’m simply not a PJ fan and never was.
Tucker had just had one of his best seasons but Morey should've known better than overpaying for a 36 year old who is liable to drop off.
It's not an overpay when you essentially get him for free
Reading the tea leaves with JJ prob going to lakers and the magic reports about PG. I think we are gonna strike out on both! Welcome home brandon Ingram!
Why would Paul George sign with Orlando instead of Philly?
I agree but are you saying you think PG is going to the Magic?
No, but it could mean he’s not about Philly
Also what would Ingram cost 2 firsts and seconds?
Cause the pelicans don’t want to get particularly more expensive and they are losing their wing depth this year, probably two firsts and a rotational player would do I’d imagine, maybe even a 1st if the player was good enough
What do you think the Sixers would have to give up for Ingram? Maybe two firsts, some seconds, and a swap?
I think that’s fair value. Other proposed trades have been Wiggins+ or Dejounte & Bojan for Dyson Daniels + BI. I think 2 firsts and a swap is fair
Looks like the Lakers jobs is as good as JJs now.
Hurley turning them down, and turning them down on a 70m offer is crazy. Really shows the state that the Lakers are in and how they're viewed.
Especially when college bball is a sinking ship. Insanely wild to turn down $70m guaranteed and living in LA Maybe Hurley thinks some other NBA opportunity will come up? But I doubt it'll be as good as this one, especially when college coaches have a subpar reputation
Kentucky offered him 11m, so I'm sure he's getting a great offer from UConn to stick around.
I would take the heaviest criticism from NBA media and fuck boy fans for 70 mil easy
Oh, most definitely. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about their clown shoes front office, and how that is viewed by people considering going there in terms of the opportunity for success.
I can't help but think what if we had Batum instead of PJ Tucker 2 years ago...better shooter, better passer, and honestly maybe even better defense (Tucker fouled too much, could never get away with being so aggressive) Anyway, please re-sign Batum.
Might as well gave us the ring nobody stopping hardeeno, the process and Goatum
Quite incredible how Tatum can shoot so poor and be up 2-0. Of course because they win, the narrative is “he’s doing what it takes to win” that’s not to say he isn’t still doing other things well but wins reframe it. Hes incredibly fortunate that how many of his teammates can drop 20 + and you would not be surprised. Winning cures all but no one else gets those type of kid gloves. This team is loaded and often times he doesn’t even look like the leader. I wish Jojo could afford to play that bad and win.
I'm a Cs fan, so I have a dog in the fight, and I'd like to offer a Cs fan perspective. First, let me agree - Tatum is incredibly fortunate with the team he has, his shot profile is sometimes mind-blowingly frustrating, and he's mired in a deep shooting slump right now. Embiid in the same situation would be getting as much or more heat, no doubt. There's something people tend to forget, though...Tatums natural position is small forward. He's listed at 6'8", may be 6'9" now at most. Strong but skinny - genuinely 235 or so, 240 at most. He's not Lebron size. Despite that, he leading the Celtics in rebounding, top 7 or so in the playoffs. Celtics switching defensive plan has him defending opposition centers a lot these playoffs - Bam, Mobley, Gafford, etc, then switching to mobile players like Luka, Siakam, Mitchell, etc. So he goes from muscling with size to covering speed, then back, pretty constantly. And he just sucks it up and does it. It's not really a surprise that his drives and jumpers don't have lift right now. The way I see it, he's taking one for the team. He's top 10 in the playoffs in rpg, apg and fta, top 15 in scoring despite the shooting slump, all while playing 41 minutes a game. He's doing the necessary and putting the team first. Can't ask for more. Link to a better comment on Tatum, conditioning and efficiency. https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1dcjr8y/serious_next_day_thread_postgame_discussion_june/l80f8bb/
You phrase a team being “loaded” as a bad thing, what’s up with the fixation on Tatum? Good teams have multiple scoring threats and the stars should also have the ability to be off-ball / complementary players regardless of the defensive coverages or whether their shots are falling. It’s what makes the Celtics successful. Meanwhile the Sixers fall short every year because we rely on two guys to do everything, which works just well enough in the regular season that we get complacent and fall flat when the postseason defensive schemes tighten up. I was saying it at the trade deadline that the team would not go anywhere without a big pickup. We were by far the most top-heavy scoring team (about 50% of our points came from two guys). That isn’t Boston’s fault or problem.
Anybody who knew basketball knew this team was destined for a 1st round exit after the disastrous offseason. There’s no way you trade Harden for Covington, Morris and Batum and don’t experience a drop-off.
No I agree it’s really good team construction. It’s impressive really. I’m envious that’s all
I hear ya, but I still think it’s a reach to say he played badly. He had a few bad shot selections but was making good reads all game and playing great team defense.
His ts was 36% lmfao he didn’t lead the team yesterday and in another timeline probably shot them out the game. His teammates weren’t that good yesterday and he couldn’t turn it on, Luka’s teammates have just been so bad that it doesn’t matter
No doubt just wish our guy had that luxury. I just wanted to also say that it’s interesting how winning shapes the narrative.
The only time Joel is gonna have the opportunity is when he’s gonna play on team USA 😭
Celtics really got Heat (no jimmy) Cavs (no allen no mitchell) Pacers (no haliburton) Mavs (no help outside of luka)
Who except the Nuggs would really have been scary for them though? They're just unfortunately the best team this year.
Yeah I think the Nuggets playing the Celtics would've turned out pretty much like playing the Wolves. They've got a ton of length and play excellent team defense, which is a pretty hard counter to Denver's team oriented offense. All that plus the Celtics have like 5 more deadly 3 point shooters in their rotation than Minnesota lol
Celtics had no KP for a while during playoffs but nobody mentions that. They rested guys down stretch because they had such a huge standings cushion. Other teams had to play their guys for position. It's not like the Celtics were an 8 seed that got lucky with injuries against teams that likely would have beaten them. They won all those series 4-0 and 4-1 and now up 2-0 and would likely have won all those series anyway (though maybe not sweeps or 4-1, but certainly would have been favored). This is a silly argument. They were the best team all season and now they're in position to win it all, after being on the cusp for years. You can't take anything away from them because other people couldn't stay healthy.
the mavs one doesnt even make sense lmao
lmao bruh what in gods name do you want them to do other than play who is in front of them? this is why you get first by a mile and coast the final month resting all your players to prevent injuries. literally exactly what Denver did to win the chip last year and what Boston did to win it this year. like….this is the blueprint. this is exactly what you’re supposed to do. I mean the heat are legit the perfect example. had to play the play ins instead of going directly to the playoffs and what happened? Jimmy got injured.
>I mean the heat are legit the perfect example. had to play the play ins instead of going directly to the playoffs and what happened? Jimmy got injured. The 2023 Play-In Heat made the Finals bruh
Maxey has to be our worst defender on the court. If there’s a guy you like who’s worse at defense they’ll have to come off the bench.. but realistically probably shouldn’t even be in the team.
Adding point of attack defenders around Maxey and a rangey 4 next to Joel would give us a great shot at building a competing team. Caruso is an obvious target, but I also hope we target Herb Jones, Davion Mitchell, and one of Tari Eason/Pat Williams/Jon Isaac/Deni Avidja around those two since they’re excellent defenders on cheap contracts and would only cost draft picks/S&T players. Also think Keldon Johnson could be a great two-way weapon on a winning team as a third/fourth/sixth man option.
Martin twins are interesting as well. I was in on Keldon but the entire spurs sub seems in agreement that Keldon is a 0 on the defensive end, has scared me out of him some
100% agree abt the Martin twins. With Keldon, I think some of that may be bc he’s been in a losing situation his entire career and it’s easier to mail it in defensively when your team doesn’t really have a shot to win most nights. I’d take the bet that in a better situation on a better team he could lock in more on that side (similar to Oubre). He has all the physical tools to be a really really good defender.
I’m not really sure his lateral quickness is anywhere close to the level of oubre’s. Oubre’s issue was mainly falling asleep off ball. Oubre was elite at generating deflections, even in Charlotte. Keldon generates half the deflections Kelly does. Seems like spurs fans are saying he gets blown by 3s and is better on 4s. But being 6’5” and a below average rebounder for a 4 worries me some.
Lateral quickness may not be there but his strength is. I do see him as more of a 3/4 defender while Oubre is more of a 2/3 defender. So much of defense imo is how much someone wants to guard, so maybe Keldon doesn’t want to. I would have to see him in a winning situation for that, but I think the tools (especially his strength) is there to be impactful.
If his offense was a sure thing I’d be less concerned. But his offensive game is the same thing, something you’re projecting that he hasn’t shown. He’s not really great at any particular skill on offense. Average shooter, not a great ball handler or passer. What’s even more worrisome is that with Wemby, he had a lower usage role yet was out of place. How’s that going to translate to playing next to Joel and Maxey? Honestly a ton of his profile is similar to Tobi, he may be more athletic but is smaller, a worse shooter and rebounder
Yep, and that's always going to be the issue team building around and/or with him. You have to start from the position that he has to be your one weak link defensively, and adding any others just kills you come playoffs. It's a real challenge for Morey
The bigger issue is that right now he’s a shooting guard stuck in a point guard’s body. He’s a great shooter and finisher but not a great shot/space creator. His facilitating has improved and is by no means bad but it isn’t up to par with most all nba level pgs. Solid rebounding/defensive instincts but he’s too small to take advantage of them. If Maxey’s playmaking takes another step then you could get away with a Herb Jones/Lu Dort, defense-heavy backcourt partner.
Yeah this is why I'm pretty pro-playmaking wing at this point. It's gonna be tough to find the opposite of Maxey - a point guard in a shooting guard's body - outside of Dejounte (who I'd still love to get). But otherwise, I think you just prioritize getting a wing who can facilitate and load on some good defenders. That pretty much narrows it down to BI, Jimmy, and LeBron... depending on who you think is realistic.
Winning really does change everything. Celtics have a slightly less deep team, or the Mavs don't blow, and JT has a performance like last night and he's getting (understandably) slandered to hell and back. But since they win, the commentary is "he couldn't shoot for shit but was invaluable on defense and had amazing rebounds. Plus, his gravity!! Look at how they collapse on him in the paint!"
Both are right. Where it goes wrong is comparing him to stars who don’t have Jrue, KP, White or Brown to prop up their bad nights. 24 Cs is 04 Pistons. Not the exact same type of team but in a we have so many top 50 guys on one team that it’s really hard to beat us
It's pretty wild that nobody really knows/can agree on Tatum's status in the league because his team is always so damn good lol. He's never gonna be a realistic MVP candidate as long as his teammates are so good, but he's typically a consensus All-NBA First Team guy due to be one of the best forwards in the game. But is he a top 5 player? Nobody knows. What would he look like on a shit team? Nobody knows...
Pretty hilarious that this organization had chances to draft Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown yet drafted absolute BUMS like Okafor, Simmons, and Fultz. Yes I get the whole “at the time it was the right move”, but to blow that many top 3 picks? YUCK. Embiid is the only thing that makes this franchise good instead of poverty. Take him out of the equation and this is a bottom 5 team. Seriously. Their record without him this year is bottom 5 in terms of win %. Time and time again, these fucking idiots failed to build around him.
Porzingus wouldn’t work out for us. But the others yeah
Ironically, Embiid and Porzingis would be absolutely dirty lol. Kinda short sighted on Tingis' part too because IIRC he preferred to play the 4 at the time
Work out as in physically not strategically. He wouldn’t go to a private workout before the draft or something.
I got it. I'm saying that was dumb of him tbh
Oh. Yeah you’re right. Should be happy to be in the NBA and not favoring other teams before they are even in the league.
Not even other useful players in the draft, just absolute bums and bust. Disgraceful drafting to be honest.
The Fultz saga set the franchise back what feels like a century
Funny thing with the Tatum 6-22 discourse is that he was actually good; just shoot poorly. He was aggressive all game, got to the rim literally at will, collapsed the defense and moved the ball quickly, had the entire offense clicking. Not to mention he was more than solid defensively. It was sort of like the typical Joel Embiid playoff experience, in that he was overwhelmingly positive on both ends, but people saw a bad shooting statline and that's all they could understand. Except with Joel it's even more pronounced, obvioulsy.
Ahh nets series vibes. man we used to get busy
Bro the fact the mavericks and their garbage ass roster made it farther than we ever had is the biggest inditement on this franchise. People here tried to convince me they were good lmao
The Mavericks have something we don’t: a franchise player that can stay healthy enough to go deep in the playoffs
He is definitely not healthy
Luka right now is more healthy than embiid has ever been in the months of april and may
He’s healthy enough where he’s still pretty much as effective as his normal self.
Idk it does suck but there often is a lot of luck and unluckiness involved at this higher level of competition
I mean they made the conference finals what just 2 seasons or so ago too? Luka is just that good. Already has 5x first team all nba already in just 6 years.
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The collar man loves his euros so he would definitely pick Luka even with the no1 pick. But then he may actually stay here and create the worst possible team around him. Or maybe the sixers would have killed Luka with some type of allergy.
They aren’t garbage.
They're not garbage, they're pretty well constructed around Luka and role players go cold cuz they're role players I think this is basically the best you could construct a roster around Luka (a co-creator/off-ball threat in Kyrie, multiple lob threats, athletic 3&D guys, and a stretch 5 who doesn't suck on defense for good measure), just like the 2018 Rockets were probably the best you could build around Harden. At some point, maybe heliocentric ball doesn't work... It seems like there's always a team with excellent team offense/defense that those helio teams bump into (like the Warriors, the Nuggets, or current Celtics)
Plus Cs have no holes on defense to exploit and can hold up better one on one with Kyrie and Luka than others did
Yeah like the Celtics have 2-3 guys that can each cover Luka and Kyrie while most teams have 0 that can cover either lol
We weren’t going to make it that far either. Embiid would’ve gotten injured, Tobias would be a ghost, and the role players would fail to live up to expectations.
Who would be the 3rd team in a Brandon Ingram trade? I’m pretty sure they want players not picks.
hawks/Murray?
I think they’d need a a cheaper replacement wing. Something along the lines of Grant, Kuz, Hunter, etc.
I dunno, they have Herb Jones and Trey Murphy already. IMO they'd probably want their guard of the future and want to move on from McCollum at some point. The Donovan Mitchell situation is floating around out there and fairly interesting... both us and Pels send a pick to Cleveland, Mitchell to Pelicans, BI to us, McCollum to Cleveland?
I’d rather have Mitchell than BI. Plus Cleveland would also want a player back and not picks, and certainly wouldn’t be CJ
Fair and I feel like everybody's ignoring Mitchell as a semi-realistic possibility. People turn their nose up at him and Maxey both being small but the dude has been a top 5 MVP candidate for Cleveland and has put some of the best gems in postseason history. Not sure how we'd get him though, since like you said, Cleveland's gonna wanna continue competing and not just want picks.
Exactly I’d bet on the talent over fit. Mitch is a playoff riser can’t take those for granted
Plus both him and Maxey are solid defenders despite being small. And it wouldn’t be a “I go, you go” relationship because Maxey is more of an offball threat at this point rather than a playmaker. Oooo now I’m getting excited about something that’ll never happen lol
Can probably loop in the Blazers and send the 2 picks we give them there for Jerami 🤷🏼♀️ That's a them problem not an us problem - they know what we can offer
I’d rather just have Jerami Grant
I wouldn't hate it but he should be pretty fucking far down the list of preferred targets just cuz of his contract. The good news is that we might be able to get him for cheap (maybe one FRP?) due to his contract though.
His contract really is that bad considering the landscape of deals. Pg and Ingram will be at $50M over the next 4 years, Grant around $30M per year is fairly palatable. Not as good of a contract as Kuzma’s for sure but not terrible
Grants twice the player Kuzma is though.
Yeah the year to year number is decent though the length worries me. You gotta be very confident in that move because if he doesn't look good for us, we're probably riding that contract out. Don't wanna end up in another Tobias deal where he's hovering in that situation where he's underperforming and therefore hard to trade.
It’s not nearly the % of the cap the Tobi deal was. Tobi was making $40M this year, Grant was at $27M. Tobi’s contract was literally 50% more per year in a lower salary cap environment lol. Grant doesn’t even get to $36M in ‘27-28 if he picks up his option.
It's not one-to-one but I'd just be wary of taking on a long contract that seems somewhat hard to move, and I imagine Morey's thinking the same. He very much seems like he'd want to grab an expiring/short term guy and re-sign him if he does well
And I’m just saying it wouldn’t hard to move. Portland will get a pick or two for Grant right now with 3 years + a PO remaining. That Tobi contract would’ve needed multiple picks to dump the second it was inked. No one wanted to trade for Tobi with 2 years remaining on his deal, Portland will have a market today of a few teams with 4 years remaining for Grant. The PG contract will be the one to compare to Tobi’s deal, not grant. Plus if grant just plays to his level the last few years he probably will decline his player option in the final year for a long term contract at a lower number (kinda like KP did).
Personally I'd prefer neither
I’m honestly not against that either. You probably have enough assets to chase Caruso and/or Kuzma/DFS too