Yeah, and I don't get it, don't they have shit to do in the kitchen or dusting/cleaning some shit, or taking the kids to school. What's a tradwife doing speaking up about anything, they should know their place /s.
Gotta make it sound like it's not that restrictive. 5 years from now, their husbands will be doing the voice-over while the wife quietly works in the background
I had to look it up out of curiosity and yep..
**Kinder, Küche, Kirche** or the 3 Ks, was the German empires slogan to describe a woman's role
*translated as* **"children, kitchen, church"**
Lol sorry I’m really high and as I read that I thought you were talking about the kkk . Then I went down a rabbit hole thinking about three German names in the kkk.
This was the time for you to bring literally any evidence at all other than your opinion
Also I have no idea why you think "german nazis" and the american nazi party are different. You know what american nazis do? They sit around talking about how great Hitler was all day. Look at the transcripts from the civil trial from the UtR fallout
I've been trying to talk some sense into people about this for years. The whole pushback on stuff like "too much sex in movies/TV" despite it largely trending down on average has clearly been a conservative psyop that has been very effective on young people.
The article also says that the actual influencers are doing it. It lists several conspiracy theories from the actual influencers, then says that engaging with those influencer accounts led to the algorithm feeding them more conspiracy theories.
I thought they were supposed to be tradwives. How do their husbands feel about them earning a living?
Edit: To be clear, this is sarcasm. I know these people are just scamming influencers who are selling BS.
Ever notice the videos always show them in dainty dresses, baking bread in immaculate kitchens, with their well behaved, squeaky clean and well groomed children looking on?
That’s because they all have household staff. These are rich women selling a fantasy life to women who work full time jobs while still having to clean their houses and take care of their children. It’s not reality.
I'm glad someone else brought up the wealth/generational aspect to this. These (mostly young) women present it as an idealized, peaceful and 'pure' fantasy using the aesthetic exterior of what is historically a mundane and often lonely life for working-class women circa the 50s, etc. They're inhabiting a role that used to be a necessity (it still is to this day, just not for them) and selling a performance in luxury. It's insulting.
They're not tradwives, they're nepo babies and gifters cosplaying as housewives from 1950s product ads. They sell an idealized het, white, middle to upper class fantasy to men, while promoting harmful disinformation that puts young, impressionable women at high risk of financial abuse/destitution if their husband suddenly dies, loses his job or is disabled.
Happened to a friend of mine. She subjugated her needs to those of her husband for 30 yrars. After he had a stroke, she had to become the primary breadwinner. He rewarded her sacrifice by cheating on her while she was at work. And then left her for a "more attractive" slightly younger woman, who died five years later of cancer. Sometimes karma does work.
Information like this is its own conspiracy theory.
People want to believe that they’ve uncovered some sinister secret movement, but in reality these influencers want to be as popular as possible so they can make as much money as possible.
The writer of the article is the conspiracy theorist here.
You clearly have not even read the article.
TL;DR: This was a study where they made a new TikTok account, watched the last ten videos of a handful of Tradwife accounts, and then analyzed the videos they got on their "For you" page. Result: 30% of the videos they got were conspiracy theories, medical disinformation, far-right radicalization and so on.
If you watch 10 videos of "woke intersectional feminism", I assume you'll get more videos about "woke intersectional feminism," which is fine since if you watch 10 videos about it, you're probably interested in it. This here is completely different. You watch videos from what are supposedly lifestyle influencers who promote cottage core and traditional marriage, and you get medical disinformation and far-right conspiracy theories.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that a broad variety of lifestyle content, from fitness to animal welfare tends to eventually lead people to far-right conspiracy theories?
When I was an evangelical, we were always taught to use whatever skills or hobbies we had to build relationships for the sole purpose of trying to convert people.
At one point when I realized one guy wasn't going to convert, my mentor told me that I needed to make sure I didn't "put pearls before swine." Basically, I should spend my time elsewhere with someone who might believe. So yeah, crank that mindset up to 11, mix in alt right politics, and suddenly you have niche communities who slowly drag people in. Woooo!
Pyramid schemes and MLMs (if you even want to separate them) use the exact same methods as evangelicals. That’s why there is so much overlap, and you hear the MLM huns always talking about how blessed they are.
Yes, especially with youth groups. A mega church around here has full-on sports leagues. Parents think "hey, what safer place is there than a church?" and then sign them up for baseball or whatever. They get the kids all bonding with each other. Meanwhile, the kids that are in the church's youth group will naturally start inviting outsiders to go to church, and the coaches, who work for the church, will start including mini sermons at practice. Summer is a big recruitment time for their kids and youth ministries.
At this point, there's very little different between the alt right and fundamentalist evangelicals. The strategies are all the same. Hell, look at "fitness" influences like Andrew Tate. Hook in the young guys without direction in their life and then start planting the ideas.
Doing it through the church is *much* more affordable than actual youth leagues. They would also let people sign up for free depending on circumstances. I know a few families where it was the only way to get their kid playing the sport they loved.
I would say it could be a noble community program, but having worked on the inside, I know that it's more investment than charity. While I'm sure there are many volunteers who do it for their local community, nothing comes without strings attached for the church.
Then the answer to your original question is no.
He was a first century apocalyptic preacher from Galilee who was executed by Romans. That’s the extent of my knowledge. For personal beliefs, I’m an agnostic theist, with my understanding of god coming from my Christian background (or agnostic Christian if I’m feeling spicy). These beliefs are most likely the result of being raised in the evangelical worldview, and are only supported by anecdotal experience and emotions, not compelling evidence.
It honestly feels like literally everything eventually leads to far-right conspiracy theories. Here are some pipelines I've encountered:
I'm interested in physics and science in general, but watching science videos leads you to some harmless pseudoscientific videos, which in turn lead to flat-earthers and moon-landing deniers and eventually how round earth and moon landing are lies told by jews to control us.
If you like cooking videos, you start watching cooking videos, which will lead you to more lifestyle-oriented videos like vegan recipes. Then it goes to videos telling which ingredients are bad for you, leading you to videos claiming pasteurized milk and seed oils are poisoning you and how it's all a plot by the jews.
History videos show you some awesome footage of historical sites. They tell you about how ancient civilizations lived and how old the pyramids are and how they were built. Then come the videos claiming how we don't know how the pyramids were built and how there are these mysteries surrounding them and how there was a lost civilization that gave us knowledge about stuff and it's all being kept secret by the jews for them to control us.
I got so fed up with all this that I completely deleted my facebook account and I've been on an Instagram break for a couple of months now. Never touched Tiktok though.
I miss the days when I could put on the History Channel and it would be a 50/50 chance of shows about killing Nazis, or shows about more distant yet still factual history.
The sun not causing skin cancer? As an Australian WT actual F. No wonder I've not come across this tradwife thing, I don't think that's an idea likley to take off here.
They don't believe saturated fat from carnivore and keto diet is dangerous yet during WW2 rationing in Europe they proved when people had less access to meat and high-fat dairy that heart attacks plummeted. And when rationing was over heart attacks increased again.
I’m startled by how many of the replies seem to be from people who apparently could not understand what I thought was a pretty straightforward article
1. It is not commingling “distrusts the government” with “conspiracy theories”. It accounts those separately and they only connect in that it points out that the conspiracy theories tend to focus on distrust of the government.
2. It is not only discussing conspiracy theories fed through the algorithm after engaging with the accounts, it also discusses conspiracy theories directly from the accounts.
No! It can't be! The tradwives are just fronts for far-right bullshit? Say it ain't so!
At least I can still follow all those dating coaches. Those fellas are still on the up and up right?
they’re all obsessed with feeding their husbands red meat and homeschooling and refusing to vax their children. fucking weirdos. just eat the damn meat and shut up it doesn’t make you seem enlightened superior individual
Yes that was interesting, the modern bad cover band version is clearly trying to build from that blueprint.
It's not something the Nazis invented either. Old example I can think of is Octavian (who rebranded as Augustus/\*\*\*\* I'm great aren't I?!) Caesar. He used the same playbook way back when. We aren't undermining democracy, we are returning to traditional virtues, and virtuous women will play a central role in that return.
No but like, unless you have reason to believe they’re actively gaming the algorithm (and many are!) the fact that the algorithm associates their content with shitty people shouldn’t alone be dispositive. It should attract scrutiny. Someone else could be gaming the algorithm to piggyback on them.
Who’s gaming the algorithm and what is your reason for believing that?
My point is the algorithm will associate certain things that are tenuously connected, and that doesn’t necessarily define the ideals of the consumer
If someone is researching why the Talmud supports flat earth and the algorithm suggests a flat earth video, that doesn’t make someone a flat earther by association
That’s what I’m saying too. We’re not in disagreement. But there are absolutely far right actors who game the algorithm to build a radicalization pipeline, and so it’s worth looking into why there might be an algorithmic connection when it appears.
The trad wife grift is literally shit like "women were born to be home and raise kids" and "I'm happy to cook and clean all day for my man" and "raw milk is good for you! Pasteurization is a government conspiracy!" While bird flu rages on. And they are anti vax. So...
Yes it's fair.
It’s fair for a very questionably fair reason. The algorithmic connection may raise a flag, but it’s really the underlying ideology that you dug up that makes the case. The algorithm on its own should not be dispositive.
The conspiracy content they barely managed to locate on Tiktok was pretty vague and inoffensive.
>“Taking sovereignty over your own health & food sources and not relying on the government for either.”
This is the best example they could find on Tiktok?
Another:
"Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the establishment elite’s agenda"
Again, this is the best example they could find?
This type of vague stuff isn't what normally springs to mind when you think about conspiracy theories.
In my opinion, they wrote the article's narrative (Tiktok tradwives are bad) before doing any of the research. When they couldn't find anything particularly damning on Tiktok, they pivoted to this belabored guilt by association study which says that following Tiktok Tradwives will cause completely unrelated videos to be promoted to you.
I don't think that's a fair charge regardless of who is being charged.
I don’t feel like we’re reading the same article.
Is this in the one you’re reading?
> Her account on X (formerly Twitter) is more overtly extreme, with posts suggesting that the sun does not cause skin cancer, **defendingAndrew Tate** (a self-proclaimed misogynist on trial in Romania for human trafficking, rape, and forming a criminal group to sexually exploit women) **and blaming his arrest on “the matrix,”** and describing a worldwide pride festival as “full of mentally ill people and groomers.”
> A social media landing page linked to Dinis’ TikTok directs users to PragerU Kids — an offshoot of right-wing propaganda organization PragerU.
> Another tradwife influencer, “Gwen the Milkmaid,” follows a similar video formula, posting imagery of prairie dresses, bows, and baking overlaid with text pushing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points.
> In one recent video, Gwen prepares homemade pasta with overlaid text reading, “Trad-wives have been getting a lot of hate recently… And is it really a surprise? **The elites have been working for decades to destroy femininity, masculinity, healthy marriages, and families.”**
> She captioned the video with a lengthy elaboration of this claim, asserting that these so-called “elites” use “**the same playbook with trad-wives, as they do with every other truth that can’t be discredited,”** which includes using “the media to spread lies.”
“Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the **establishment elite’s agenda**,” Gwen wrote. It’s a movement “that knows how much our children need us, instead of letting them be manipulated by culture and government schools.”
Well the article explains, for one, that the tradwives themselves push many of these conspiracies themselves, so in the most direct sense, yes.
But now for algorithm talk. Algorithms are complex. But they are not an absolute black box. We do know some ways in which they generate recommendations.
One is pretty simple: tags. If someone tags their video #conspiracy, they know their video will get recommended to people who view other videos with that tag. This works in the other direction as well, if they tag a video with #conspiracy, other videos with that tag will get recommended to their viewers. Maybe they can claim ignorance that their tags drive traffic to other videos, but it is equivalent to how they get traffic driven to their videos. To me, this equivalence produces a responsibility; if they use a platforms tool to drive traffic to them, they must understand that those tools work for everyone on the platform, and those tools ought to be used responsibly. It is the responsibility of everyone travelling on a road in the northbound lane to know that people travelling on the southbound lane follow the same rules. But maybe the tradewives don’t know what else appears on the #conspiracy tab…
Which brings me to the next way algorithms produce recommendations: “people also watched”. I watched a five hour youtube review of a Japanese-language PSOne-era dating sim where, in the middle, the reviewer made an offhand comment that he listened to the band Number Girl. It was not a focus of the video, just a single mention. I had never heard of the band before. When the video was over, Number Girl appeared on my recommendations. I listened, they fucking ruled, so I searched for some more. But they were recommended to me because a bunch of people searched Number Girl after he mentioned them, and now my click and my search add some weight to Number Girl for others that watched the review. We’ve all seen this type of recommendation before. A creator may not be able to control where their viewers go afterwards, but they have a responsibility to where they send their viewers, because that is reflected in the algorithm’s recommendations. If you mention a popular plagiarist, you are responsible for the brigade that follows, and you fail in your responsibilities if you don’t direct your viewers away from that behaviour, because you know the mention of them, or even those mention those conspiratorial topics if those topics are not mundane, will drive traffic elsewhere. Once again, to my estimation, this creates a responsibility. Can a creator claim ignorance of the effect of this feature of the algorithm if they make use of it themselves? I don’t think so.
The last way we know algorithms work is once again pretty simple, it’s basically a combination of the other two: cultivation. As traffic flows to and away from your account, and to and from like minded accounts, communities are created with these accounts as the leaders. I think it’s absurd to suggest the leaders of communities do not have a responsibility to moderate bad actors within their community. If you are posting flat earth content claiming it’s a scientific establishment conspiracy, and you know other flat Earthers in your community think the round earth is a jewish conspiracy, _and you don’t call them out_, you are cultivating a community which allows anti-semitism to go unchecked. And in combination with the previous two points about the algorithm, responsible for directing your viewers towards that content.
So yes, I think it’s fair criticism, so long as they know what they are doing when they a) use tags to drive traffic, b) cultivate viewers (and thereby direct viewers!) of conspiratorial topics, and c) do not reject/call-out bad actors in the community you’ve cultivated. The algorithm will always be used as a black box to shield creators from criticism, but if they use its features, they can’t claim ignorance.
As a mother, I think this is fair. I could easily see my daughter’s friends sending her links to this shit because “this is so fun and cute”. She’s only 10, and her friends are already sharing mood boards and talking about cottagecore and shit. Sure, I’ve blocked youtube and tiktok on her devices, but I can’t block those sources on her friends’ devices when she’s on a play date.
My point is that this insidious shit is starting earlier and earlier. It’s not just fully formed adults watching content. I try to talk about media literacy with my daughter, and I can use this story to start another conversation with her about being critical of what message is being sent, by whom, what their possible motives are, and the audience they’re targeting.
It's good for your daughter to understand what the goal of the content actually is too. Good for you for helping her understand it even if you don't allow it because you're right, she will see it.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/countering-radical-right/tradwives-sexism-gateway-white-supremacy/
"The TradWives debate is a new and effective recruiting tool for the growing intersection between toxic masculinity and white supremacy.”
>Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine. These messages were positioned between soft visuals of baking, gardening, and modest fashion.
Directly from the article, the article has a few examples with screenshots.
Here's one example:
>In one recent video, Gwen prepares homemade pasta with overlaid text reading, “Trad-wives have been getting a lot of hate recently… And is it really a surprise? The elites have been working for decades to destroy femininity, masculinity, healthy marriages, and families.”
>She captioned the video with a lengthy elaboration of this claim, asserting that these so-called “elites” use “the same playbook with trad-wives, as they do with every other truth that can’t be discredited,” which includes using “the media to spread lies.”
>“Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the establishment elite’s agenda,” Gwen wrote. It’s a movement “that knows how much our children need us, instead of letting them be manipulated by culture and government schools.”
>She concluded the video caption by writing, “Just my latest conspiracy theory. What do you think about this?”
Additionally:
>Right-wing media have also embraced one of TikTok’s most popular tradwife influencers, Estee Williams, who has appeared on Fox News, OAN, and The Daily Wire to lament about the “attack on traditional values."
>Williams used her since-nuked Twitter account to spread anti-trans bigotry, opposition to sending women to college at 18, and disturbing messages like “any wife who denies her husband intimacy is acting against her marriage.”
Seems like very fair criticism to me.
That is one of the right wing goals too though.
For now the men control their votes. Ex Evangelicals say they were forced to follow their husband's counsel and former GOTV workers talk about men blocking them from speaking to women during door knocking.
A few in 2016 said that women would whisper they were supporting Hilary but that they couldn't let their husbands know or they wouldn't be allowed to go vote.
No different than OnlyFans or PornHub. Nothing but webcam models playing up to an audience that has some very particular kinks. And IMO, weird kinks at that. I’m less ashamed of having a thing for women in thigh highs than I would be if wanting to be mommied 24/7.
Yeah, you'll always see them posting about drinking "nourishing bone broth" as opposed to "pharma" medicines, railing against feminism and supporting whatever else right wing nonsense Tim Pool has been on lately.
Honestly, I don't care what their reasoning is, I just want TikTok gone. I know people will find other avenues to do the same stuff, but maybe it would get *someone* out of the garbage for a little while. And that would be a win.
It is interesting this definition creep we are seeing with the term “conspiracy theory”
This article talks of a “general distrust of government”as an example of conspiracy theories.
You do not need to believe in any conspiracy theory to have reasons to distrust the government.
They breech our trust all the time in ways that nobody is claiming is a conspiracy, or even “just a theory”.
And yet that gets lumped in with conspiracy theories. Why is that?
There's some nuance to consider here.
When someone rants about the "deep state", that's full on conspiracy. If someone says I'm skeptical of these politicians intentions, that's just being realistic.
The use of massive over generalizations and black and white thinking takes us into conspiracy territory quite quickly.
Again, I don't trust pharmaceutical companies generally, but I don't think they're plotting to inject everyone with drugs to make us into sheep.
A bigger challenge here is the right's perpetual use of dog whistles and how they use ambiguous language to maintain plausible deniability.
Deep state can be a full on conspiracy, or it can also be essentially general rant against technocracy with different vocabulary, although that is essentially what it is. And that is almost always what I hear when I hear deep state. Although sometimes there is a conspiracy theory tabled.
And yes, black and white thinking and over-generalizations are a problem. Like the over-generalization that everyone who is distrustful of the government is a conspiracy theorists. There are many other reasons to distrust the government. Including literal conspiracies, I might add. As well as things like using lies to justify wars. Like the Iraq war.
And as you add, there are plenty of legit reasons to distrust pharma companies, including their legal publicly available track record. And yea that doesn’t mean they have a plan to make us radio receivers. But my point is, and this article does not discern between the two, is that is very different than a general distrust of pharma companies. This article lumps them together.
And sorry you have to take what these people say for face value. You have to chase these dog whistles pretty far before you find anyone actually saying the things everyone is supposedly whistling. At some point the “whistle” becomes the actual message if few enough people actually hear the secret message everyone is supposedly whistling to each other.
> Deep state can be a full on conspiracy, or it can also be essentially general rant against technocracy with different vocabulary,
Conspiratorial vocabulary.
> Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine.
It’s really the anti modern medicine part that makes them conspiracy theorists.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of reasons to distrust pharma conpanies, including their publicly available legal track records.
Look at the things these companies are being fined for. False claims, government contracting offenses, product safety violation.
https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent-totals
And they are near the top of the list for most penalized companies. These are not trustworthy entities. I wouldn’t hire a person with a legal track record like that to even work on my house!
Not saying it is a valid reason to boycott all of modern medicine. But it should be reason for a healthy dose of skepticism.
And again these aren’t conspiracies. These are documented legal proceedings. They have done these things.
I'm a physician, I'm "modern medicine", I also distrust pharmaceutical companies.
Modern medicine isn't just pharmaceutical companies. It's a problematic part of modern medicine but that's like saying someone's entire family is shit because they have a kid in prison.
There is definitely an anti-bank element to it as well.
I see a lot of it because I am into gardening and community-reliance, which has both a left leaning cadre and a right leaning cadre.
> Not saying it is a valid reason to boycott all of modern medicine. But it should be reason for a healthy dose of skepticism.
This is the issue. These influencers aren’t operating in a healthy dose of skepticism. They are subscribing to conspiracy theories such as “the sun doesn’t cause cancer”
This is what the article uses to describe the anti-modern medicine aspect of these people:
> We defined “medical misinformation” posts as those that spread medical information or advice counter to mainstream agreement among medical professionals. These posts often spread false information about vaccines, the pharmaceutical industry, or modern medicine.
It’s one thing to acknowledge a sketchy track record of certain pharmaceutical companies, but it’s something entirely different to make up false information about the industry, as these people do.
You’re being very generous in assuming these influencers are talking about the same kind of nuanced problems you are. The deep state theory, as it exists on the right, is that a cabal of devil worshiping progressives are trying to destroy America and to harm your family. Plenty of reason to be critical and skeptical of the government, but that’s not what these people are talking about.
I don’t think you are reading it correctly.
- Note that on the table, “conspiracy theory and apocalyptic fearmongering” and “anti-government” are listed separately.
- the following bullet points in the article separate them as well
> - After we interacted with tradwife content, TikTok’s recommendation algorithm began flooding our FYP with right-wing conspiracy theory content.
> - Our FYP also began displaying medical misinformation and anti-government content, specifically fearmongering about the need to prepare for an impending “civil war.”
> - Of the 327 videos served to the “For You” page in Media Matters’ analysis, 100 (or 30.6%) contained conspiracy theories or apocalyptic fearmongering.
- This paragraph separates them as well, indicating not that distrust of the government = conspiracy theory but that their conspiracy theories focus on distrust of the government:
> Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine. These messages were positioned between soft visuals of baking, gardening, and modest fashion.
- They then go on to list several conspiracy theories they detected, all of which are actual conspiracy theories and none of which are simply “distrust the government.”
So I think you are reading them as conflating the two, but they are actually saying distrust of government is one of their modes, and that it expresses itself in several conspiracy theories.
Good point, and I basically agree, a good sceptic absolutely should distrust many government statements. The issue is distrust of the government as sold in the right-wing spheres is very disingenuous in my view. It generally seems to be used to sell working class people an anti regulatory and anti tax approach that only benefits the already wealthy and actively goes against the interests of its target audience. It goes hand in hand with distrust of experts and all the anti science stuff we saw on COVID and continue to see on climate. It's a bit of a gateway drug. If it was done alongside saying this is how to critically evaluate what your government is telling in terms of their motivation to be honest or dishonest or what it means for the individual or wider community then fair enough, but in these spaces, it isn't.
It would be a good point if it was made in reply to a post that conflated the two, but this one does not.
It separates ‘distrust of government’ from ‘conspiracy theory’ with every mention.
No, I'm happy for them to distrust from a Conservative point of view, and to disagreewith my opinion, but when that ends up in Qanon land or where a lot of anti science woo woo nonsense gets spread around I'd see that as a bad thing.
It’s very black and white to say their anti-regulatory anti-tax approach only benefits the wealthy. Some regulations do harm the wealthy. However, they have been very good at using regulations to promote a less competitive business environment for themselves.
It isn’t as simple as saying more regulation=pro working class, and less regulation=pro capitalism.
The online news act in Canada is one of those recent regulations that vastly benefitted the billionaire and government funded legacy media and harmed many small independent outlets, and made it pretty much impossible for anyone to make a successful news media start-up from here on out.
And we know from public lobbying records who lobbied for it.
And we know the independent media formed their own lobby to make amendments to the act that would make it more start-up and small outlet friendly. Every single one of their proposals was rejected.
This is an example of regulation actually helping big business and harming small business.
There is a lot of that too.
The “gateway drug” argument is bogus. It’s the slippery slope fallacy.
When they are right, they are right. When they are wrong, they are wrong.
That's exactly the kind of nuanced view that the people spreading conspiracy theories intentionally for their own benefit don't have. Everyone grants that governments do bad things under the influence of lobbyists and I'm sure we all have our own favorite example. That doesn't refute anything the guy you're replying to said. If you're Canadian you're probably coming from a slightly different place from those of us who suffered under Trumpism.
Not at all. Canada is a net exporter of that kind of politics. Jordan Petersen, Steven Crowder, Gavin McGinnis who started Proud Boys, Lauren Southern, Ezra Levant and Rebel Media, Karen Straughan, Gad Saad…
most of it's a troll then others are in a cult getting fleeced by mlm's
[https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles)
I know a 'TradWife Influencer" in real life.
She makes good money from lonely conservative guys. She's also 100% fake. She works in marketing and did influencer stuff on the side until she started to make more pretending to be I Love Lucy.
She's very left leaning and it's all an act for the money. She's read to me some of the messages she's gotten. They are a mix of deranged and hilarious.
Borrrrrrring! I wanna hear about the left leaning conspiracy theories! All I ever see here are these supposed right wing theories. And if none of you think left leaning conspiracy theories exist... then that's just plain naive. Extremists on both sides are just that... EXTREME. Far too many people on both sides act as if they were dropped on their heads as babies. Please tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
A weird thing to worry about a very ancient norm. In mammal species such as hominids, it is common for mates to do different work in the two-parent social arrangement.
That is their purpose
In future, y'all need to learn to recognize when the folks around you are caught in a psy op (as opposed to a naturally occurring fad), it's pretty evident every single time they do it, once you know how to spot it
They also dress that way of wifery, made up word apparently but fuck it, to be some great shit but it is very taxing/demanding even more so than what the husband is doing.
Are they really being that quiet about it?
Pretty much every right-wing grift, be it tradwives or anti-vaxxers, have abandoned any notion of subtlety. They don't bother with the old "just asking questions" mantra that the Joe Rogans of the world once hid behind. They flat out say what their agenda is because they know a sizable chunk of the population is eager to buy into it, even if it's completely against their interests.
That's where we are right now, as a society. And it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
I will never understand sitting down and watching an influencer
"I am the influenced. Sell me products. Don't even bother to entertain me. Just order me what to do and how to live my life."
Is this supposed to be news, or did people really not notice that tradwives are far-right?
Obviously they are going to pop-up alongside far-right conspiracy theories in the algorithms.
The left needs to compete in these spaces. Being family oriented and being a male role model isn’t exclusively right wing.
I predict they will only answer with derision and eventually some right wing subculture with a greater than replacement fertility rate will emerge and in 4-5 generations liberalism will fade into obscurity.
It’s a damned shame
If you think the earth is flat, and snow isn't real, then you're a conspiracy theorist. No CIA involvement, just a few individuals slowly coming to terms with the fact that they're getting older and less relevant.
I disagree with "quietly."
Yeah I was gonna say, for a quiet group they sure never shut the fuck up
To the point you can pretty much guess the topic of the day ahead of time
Yeah, and I don't get it, don't they have shit to do in the kitchen or dusting/cleaning some shit, or taking the kids to school. What's a tradwife doing speaking up about anything, they should know their place /s.
Gotta make it sound like it's not that restrictive. 5 years from now, their husbands will be doing the voice-over while the wife quietly works in the background
In the music vernacular, a Tradwife Karen tries to rock the fortissimo, but without any nuance.
Sheet music is just *fffffffffff*
A neverending crescendo
If you call yourself a tradwife - or peddle the style - I will assume you will be peddling neonazi bullshit all day long. It comes with the name.
Kinder, Kurche, and that third one.
I had to look it up out of curiosity and yep.. **Kinder, Küche, Kirche** or the 3 Ks, was the German empires slogan to describe a woman's role *translated as* **"children, kitchen, church"**
Lol sorry I’m really high and as I read that I thought you were talking about the kkk . Then I went down a rabbit hole thinking about three German names in the kkk.
The nazis of course loved the shit out of the KKK and based their propaganda on the KKK's agitprop
I heard the kkk disliked the nazis during ww2 as they were the US's enemy.
Here's the KKK and the nazis in 1979 doin a massacre together [Greensboro massacre - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre)
I mean the German Nazis and the KKK during WW2.
This was the time for you to bring literally any evidence at all other than your opinion Also I have no idea why you think "german nazis" and the american nazi party are different. You know what american nazis do? They sit around talking about how great Hitler was all day. Look at the transcripts from the civil trial from the UtR fallout
Yeah, that's the only reason why I came here to comment. They ain't quiet about anything
I've been trying to talk some sense into people about this for years. The whole pushback on stuff like "too much sex in movies/TV" despite it largely trending down on average has clearly been a conservative psyop that has been very effective on young people.
Came here looking for this comment.
Quietly?
Wasn’t that the point all along?
Yes and it's been known for so long that it drives me nuts when people cover the "trend" without talking about the reality behind it
I've seen it on 4chan
It's a far right movement, ofc they are. In other news grass is green.
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The algorithm promotes Nazi shit but it doesn't create it. The root cause is the Nazis, not the platform.
It’s the platform pushing Nazis at all
The article also says that the actual influencers are doing it. It lists several conspiracy theories from the actual influencers, then says that engaging with those influencer accounts led to the algorithm feeding them more conspiracy theories.
They follow the roboclicks where'er they lead.
“Quietly”? They make fucking videos on TikTok about that, for a living.
I thought they were supposed to be tradwives. How do their husbands feel about them earning a living? Edit: To be clear, this is sarcasm. I know these people are just scamming influencers who are selling BS.
Ever notice the videos always show them in dainty dresses, baking bread in immaculate kitchens, with their well behaved, squeaky clean and well groomed children looking on? That’s because they all have household staff. These are rich women selling a fantasy life to women who work full time jobs while still having to clean their houses and take care of their children. It’s not reality.
The 1950s ads weren’t reality either. They were selling an upper class ideal.
I'm glad someone else brought up the wealth/generational aspect to this. These (mostly young) women present it as an idealized, peaceful and 'pure' fantasy using the aesthetic exterior of what is historically a mundane and often lonely life for working-class women circa the 50s, etc. They're inhabiting a role that used to be a necessity (it still is to this day, just not for them) and selling a performance in luxury. It's insulting.
They're not tradwives, they're nepo babies and gifters cosplaying as housewives from 1950s product ads. They sell an idealized het, white, middle to upper class fantasy to men, while promoting harmful disinformation that puts young, impressionable women at high risk of financial abuse/destitution if their husband suddenly dies, loses his job or is disabled.
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Happened to a friend of mine. She subjugated her needs to those of her husband for 30 yrars. After he had a stroke, she had to become the primary breadwinner. He rewarded her sacrifice by cheating on her while she was at work. And then left her for a "more attractive" slightly younger woman, who died five years later of cancer. Sometimes karma does work.
My favorite us when they talk about how they love homesteading in their pretty dresses. Girl, you don't do farm work in nice clothes.
Information like this is its own conspiracy theory. People want to believe that they’ve uncovered some sinister secret movement, but in reality these influencers want to be as popular as possible so they can make as much money as possible. The writer of the article is the conspiracy theorist here.
You clearly have not even read the article. TL;DR: This was a study where they made a new TikTok account, watched the last ten videos of a handful of Tradwife accounts, and then analyzed the videos they got on their "For you" page. Result: 30% of the videos they got were conspiracy theories, medical disinformation, far-right radicalization and so on.
what happens when you watch 10 videos of woke intersectional feminism?
If you watch 10 videos of "woke intersectional feminism", I assume you'll get more videos about "woke intersectional feminism," which is fine since if you watch 10 videos about it, you're probably interested in it. This here is completely different. You watch videos from what are supposedly lifestyle influencers who promote cottage core and traditional marriage, and you get medical disinformation and far-right conspiracy theories.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that a broad variety of lifestyle content, from fitness to animal welfare tends to eventually lead people to far-right conspiracy theories?
When I was an evangelical, we were always taught to use whatever skills or hobbies we had to build relationships for the sole purpose of trying to convert people.
Wow. Just wow. I had no idea.
At one point when I realized one guy wasn't going to convert, my mentor told me that I needed to make sure I didn't "put pearls before swine." Basically, I should spend my time elsewhere with someone who might believe. So yeah, crank that mindset up to 11, mix in alt right politics, and suddenly you have niche communities who slowly drag people in. Woooo!
Yeah, that's pretty cult-y.
It's ok. There are books to give talking points and conventions for folks to congratulate themselves for the good work.
Like a pyramid scheme.
Pyramid schemes and MLMs (if you even want to separate them) use the exact same methods as evangelicals. That’s why there is so much overlap, and you hear the MLM huns always talking about how blessed they are.
Did that ever work? Everything I’ve seen from fundies looks like they’re flailing.
Yes, especially with youth groups. A mega church around here has full-on sports leagues. Parents think "hey, what safer place is there than a church?" and then sign them up for baseball or whatever. They get the kids all bonding with each other. Meanwhile, the kids that are in the church's youth group will naturally start inviting outsiders to go to church, and the coaches, who work for the church, will start including mini sermons at practice. Summer is a big recruitment time for their kids and youth ministries. At this point, there's very little different between the alt right and fundamentalist evangelicals. The strategies are all the same. Hell, look at "fitness" influences like Andrew Tate. Hook in the young guys without direction in their life and then start planting the ideas.
Imagine if they had some sort of central rallying figure and just called their sports organization some sort of, I don’t know, Youth League.
Doing it through the church is *much* more affordable than actual youth leagues. They would also let people sign up for free depending on circumstances. I know a few families where it was the only way to get their kid playing the sport they loved. I would say it could be a noble community program, but having worked on the inside, I know that it's more investment than charity. While I'm sure there are many volunteers who do it for their local community, nothing comes without strings attached for the church.
Bet you were fun.
I wasn't a good fit.
>When I was an evangelical Would you consider yourself a follower of Jesus Christ?
Define Jesus Christ. That’s not a flippant question.
It wasn't a question at all actually lol
A request then? But that’s fine, it’s probably not worth getting bogged down in the topic anyway.
I guess I have the doctrinally-standard Christian view of him. Way more interesting than that, what is your view of him??
Then the answer to your original question is no. He was a first century apocalyptic preacher from Galilee who was executed by Romans. That’s the extent of my knowledge. For personal beliefs, I’m an agnostic theist, with my understanding of god coming from my Christian background (or agnostic Christian if I’m feeling spicy). These beliefs are most likely the result of being raised in the evangelical worldview, and are only supported by anecdotal experience and emotions, not compelling evidence.
Cool
Well it is the current grift that sells these days.
It honestly feels like literally everything eventually leads to far-right conspiracy theories. Here are some pipelines I've encountered: I'm interested in physics and science in general, but watching science videos leads you to some harmless pseudoscientific videos, which in turn lead to flat-earthers and moon-landing deniers and eventually how round earth and moon landing are lies told by jews to control us. If you like cooking videos, you start watching cooking videos, which will lead you to more lifestyle-oriented videos like vegan recipes. Then it goes to videos telling which ingredients are bad for you, leading you to videos claiming pasteurized milk and seed oils are poisoning you and how it's all a plot by the jews. History videos show you some awesome footage of historical sites. They tell you about how ancient civilizations lived and how old the pyramids are and how they were built. Then come the videos claiming how we don't know how the pyramids were built and how there are these mysteries surrounding them and how there was a lost civilization that gave us knowledge about stuff and it's all being kept secret by the jews for them to control us. I got so fed up with all this that I completely deleted my facebook account and I've been on an Instagram break for a couple of months now. Never touched Tiktok though.
I miss the days when I could put on the History Channel and it would be a 50/50 chance of shows about killing Nazis, or shows about more distant yet still factual history.
There’s a ton of big money conservative groups pouring a lot of money into peoples pockets to spread this stuff. Everyone has a price.
The funniest thing about this is that by being an influencer they're automatically not a "tradwife"
They don’t believe in modern medicine, or that the sun causes skin cancer, and drink raw milk? Have at it, honey.
Bird flu coming to kill all the tradwives! (And, more importantly, the husbands they feed)
Don't forget eating red meat and being submissive to your king
The sun not causing skin cancer? As an Australian WT actual F. No wonder I've not come across this tradwife thing, I don't think that's an idea likley to take off here.
They believe that skin cancer is caused by sunscreen and not enough sun. Of course it’s crazy, but that is where we are.
They don't believe saturated fat from carnivore and keto diet is dangerous yet during WW2 rationing in Europe they proved when people had less access to meat and high-fat dairy that heart attacks plummeted. And when rationing was over heart attacks increased again.
The difference between "traditionalism" and "fascism" is access to industrial technology and fuel.
Fascists have a storied tradition of losing wars for want of industrial technology and fuel.
They also tend to hold nostalgia for a time of past glory that never was.
"Marry rich and you won't have to work!" Lot of impressionable young women gonna grow up without a gameplan.
I’m startled by how many of the replies seem to be from people who apparently could not understand what I thought was a pretty straightforward article 1. It is not commingling “distrusts the government” with “conspiracy theories”. It accounts those separately and they only connect in that it points out that the conspiracy theories tend to focus on distrust of the government. 2. It is not only discussing conspiracy theories fed through the algorithm after engaging with the accounts, it also discusses conspiracy theories directly from the accounts.
Let them fuck around and find out 20 yrs later when they get dumped and have no job skills
No! It can't be! The tradwives are just fronts for far-right bullshit? Say it ain't so! At least I can still follow all those dating coaches. Those fellas are still on the up and up right?
they’re all obsessed with feeding their husbands red meat and homeschooling and refusing to vax their children. fucking weirdos. just eat the damn meat and shut up it doesn’t make you seem enlightened superior individual
They are following the pro-Nazi playbook from the 1930's. It's not even original.
Did you listen to Ultra by Maddow? The podcast was really educational and the parallels between then and now striking
Yes that was interesting, the modern bad cover band version is clearly trying to build from that blueprint. It's not something the Nazis invented either. Old example I can think of is Octavian (who rebranded as Augustus/\*\*\*\* I'm great aren't I?!) Caesar. He used the same playbook way back when. We aren't undermining democracy, we are returning to traditional virtues, and virtuous women will play a central role in that return.
Fundie Fridays taught me about Tradwife influencers.
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You raise a very interesting question about algorithmic guilt by association.
It’s not guilt by association, but simply ai spreading conspiracies Consuming progressive content doesn’t make me a communist by association
No but like, unless you have reason to believe they’re actively gaming the algorithm (and many are!) the fact that the algorithm associates their content with shitty people shouldn’t alone be dispositive. It should attract scrutiny. Someone else could be gaming the algorithm to piggyback on them.
Who’s gaming the algorithm and what is your reason for believing that? My point is the algorithm will associate certain things that are tenuously connected, and that doesn’t necessarily define the ideals of the consumer If someone is researching why the Talmud supports flat earth and the algorithm suggests a flat earth video, that doesn’t make someone a flat earther by association
That’s what I’m saying too. We’re not in disagreement. But there are absolutely far right actors who game the algorithm to build a radicalization pipeline, and so it’s worth looking into why there might be an algorithmic connection when it appears.
The trad wife grift is literally shit like "women were born to be home and raise kids" and "I'm happy to cook and clean all day for my man" and "raw milk is good for you! Pasteurization is a government conspiracy!" While bird flu rages on. And they are anti vax. So... Yes it's fair.
It’s fair for a very questionably fair reason. The algorithmic connection may raise a flag, but it’s really the underlying ideology that you dug up that makes the case. The algorithm on its own should not be dispositive.
Zero critical thinking. Just "thing bad" mob mentality.
The analysis *also* reports that the tradwife accounts were peddling conspiracy theories themselves.
The conspiracy content they barely managed to locate on Tiktok was pretty vague and inoffensive. >“Taking sovereignty over your own health & food sources and not relying on the government for either.” This is the best example they could find on Tiktok? Another: "Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the establishment elite’s agenda" Again, this is the best example they could find? This type of vague stuff isn't what normally springs to mind when you think about conspiracy theories. In my opinion, they wrote the article's narrative (Tiktok tradwives are bad) before doing any of the research. When they couldn't find anything particularly damning on Tiktok, they pivoted to this belabored guilt by association study which says that following Tiktok Tradwives will cause completely unrelated videos to be promoted to you. I don't think that's a fair charge regardless of who is being charged.
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I don’t feel like we’re reading the same article. Is this in the one you’re reading? > Her account on X (formerly Twitter) is more overtly extreme, with posts suggesting that the sun does not cause skin cancer, **defendingAndrew Tate** (a self-proclaimed misogynist on trial in Romania for human trafficking, rape, and forming a criminal group to sexually exploit women) **and blaming his arrest on “the matrix,”** and describing a worldwide pride festival as “full of mentally ill people and groomers.” > A social media landing page linked to Dinis’ TikTok directs users to PragerU Kids — an offshoot of right-wing propaganda organization PragerU. > Another tradwife influencer, “Gwen the Milkmaid,” follows a similar video formula, posting imagery of prairie dresses, bows, and baking overlaid with text pushing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points. > In one recent video, Gwen prepares homemade pasta with overlaid text reading, “Trad-wives have been getting a lot of hate recently… And is it really a surprise? **The elites have been working for decades to destroy femininity, masculinity, healthy marriages, and families.”** > She captioned the video with a lengthy elaboration of this claim, asserting that these so-called “elites” use “**the same playbook with trad-wives, as they do with every other truth that can’t be discredited,”** which includes using “the media to spread lies.” “Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the **establishment elite’s agenda**,” Gwen wrote. It’s a movement “that knows how much our children need us, instead of letting them be manipulated by culture and government schools.”
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I get it. You’re a right-wing conspiracy theorist. Thanks. Your Epstein posts are illuminating.
I think we can agree they had to look real good for stuff because none of the things you said sound like bad conspiracies, mild clames.
This is simply you stating that *you* don’t find those to be ‘bad’ conspiracy theories. The people at Media Matters and I disagree with you on that.
Good point.
Well the article explains, for one, that the tradwives themselves push many of these conspiracies themselves, so in the most direct sense, yes. But now for algorithm talk. Algorithms are complex. But they are not an absolute black box. We do know some ways in which they generate recommendations. One is pretty simple: tags. If someone tags their video #conspiracy, they know their video will get recommended to people who view other videos with that tag. This works in the other direction as well, if they tag a video with #conspiracy, other videos with that tag will get recommended to their viewers. Maybe they can claim ignorance that their tags drive traffic to other videos, but it is equivalent to how they get traffic driven to their videos. To me, this equivalence produces a responsibility; if they use a platforms tool to drive traffic to them, they must understand that those tools work for everyone on the platform, and those tools ought to be used responsibly. It is the responsibility of everyone travelling on a road in the northbound lane to know that people travelling on the southbound lane follow the same rules. But maybe the tradewives don’t know what else appears on the #conspiracy tab… Which brings me to the next way algorithms produce recommendations: “people also watched”. I watched a five hour youtube review of a Japanese-language PSOne-era dating sim where, in the middle, the reviewer made an offhand comment that he listened to the band Number Girl. It was not a focus of the video, just a single mention. I had never heard of the band before. When the video was over, Number Girl appeared on my recommendations. I listened, they fucking ruled, so I searched for some more. But they were recommended to me because a bunch of people searched Number Girl after he mentioned them, and now my click and my search add some weight to Number Girl for others that watched the review. We’ve all seen this type of recommendation before. A creator may not be able to control where their viewers go afterwards, but they have a responsibility to where they send their viewers, because that is reflected in the algorithm’s recommendations. If you mention a popular plagiarist, you are responsible for the brigade that follows, and you fail in your responsibilities if you don’t direct your viewers away from that behaviour, because you know the mention of them, or even those mention those conspiratorial topics if those topics are not mundane, will drive traffic elsewhere. Once again, to my estimation, this creates a responsibility. Can a creator claim ignorance of the effect of this feature of the algorithm if they make use of it themselves? I don’t think so. The last way we know algorithms work is once again pretty simple, it’s basically a combination of the other two: cultivation. As traffic flows to and away from your account, and to and from like minded accounts, communities are created with these accounts as the leaders. I think it’s absurd to suggest the leaders of communities do not have a responsibility to moderate bad actors within their community. If you are posting flat earth content claiming it’s a scientific establishment conspiracy, and you know other flat Earthers in your community think the round earth is a jewish conspiracy, _and you don’t call them out_, you are cultivating a community which allows anti-semitism to go unchecked. And in combination with the previous two points about the algorithm, responsible for directing your viewers towards that content. So yes, I think it’s fair criticism, so long as they know what they are doing when they a) use tags to drive traffic, b) cultivate viewers (and thereby direct viewers!) of conspiratorial topics, and c) do not reject/call-out bad actors in the community you’ve cultivated. The algorithm will always be used as a black box to shield creators from criticism, but if they use its features, they can’t claim ignorance.
Did you use flat earth as an example, or are trad people actually going down a flat earth pipeline right now?
Lots of overlap in the fundie xtian domain
Yes lots of trad women are flat earthers and not all are xtian many are now new agers that oddly push evangelical extremism.
As a mother, I think this is fair. I could easily see my daughter’s friends sending her links to this shit because “this is so fun and cute”. She’s only 10, and her friends are already sharing mood boards and talking about cottagecore and shit. Sure, I’ve blocked youtube and tiktok on her devices, but I can’t block those sources on her friends’ devices when she’s on a play date. My point is that this insidious shit is starting earlier and earlier. It’s not just fully formed adults watching content. I try to talk about media literacy with my daughter, and I can use this story to start another conversation with her about being critical of what message is being sent, by whom, what their possible motives are, and the audience they’re targeting.
It's good for your daughter to understand what the goal of the content actually is too. Good for you for helping her understand it even if you don't allow it because you're right, she will see it. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/countering-radical-right/tradwives-sexism-gateway-white-supremacy/ "The TradWives debate is a new and effective recruiting tool for the growing intersection between toxic masculinity and white supremacy.”
>Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine. These messages were positioned between soft visuals of baking, gardening, and modest fashion. Directly from the article, the article has a few examples with screenshots. Here's one example: >In one recent video, Gwen prepares homemade pasta with overlaid text reading, “Trad-wives have been getting a lot of hate recently… And is it really a surprise? The elites have been working for decades to destroy femininity, masculinity, healthy marriages, and families.” >She captioned the video with a lengthy elaboration of this claim, asserting that these so-called “elites” use “the same playbook with trad-wives, as they do with every other truth that can’t be discredited,” which includes using “the media to spread lies.” >“Everything the trad-wife movement stands for goes against the establishment elite’s agenda,” Gwen wrote. It’s a movement “that knows how much our children need us, instead of letting them be manipulated by culture and government schools.” >She concluded the video caption by writing, “Just my latest conspiracy theory. What do you think about this?” Additionally: >Right-wing media have also embraced one of TikTok’s most popular tradwife influencers, Estee Williams, who has appeared on Fox News, OAN, and The Daily Wire to lament about the “attack on traditional values." >Williams used her since-nuked Twitter account to spread anti-trans bigotry, opposition to sending women to college at 18, and disturbing messages like “any wife who denies her husband intimacy is acting against her marriage.” Seems like very fair criticism to me.
shockedpikachu.jpeg You don’t say?? Next thing you will tell me is that whales shit in the ocean!
Oh, you don't know what beaching is about, then?
Now if only the trad wives would stop voting. That's traditional, right?
Nah their husbands tell them who to vote for
That is one of the right wing goals too though. For now the men control their votes. Ex Evangelicals say they were forced to follow their husband's counsel and former GOTV workers talk about men blocking them from speaking to women during door knocking. A few in 2016 said that women would whisper they were supporting Hilary but that they couldn't let their husbands know or they wouldn't be allowed to go vote.
Right wingers spreading right wing conspiracy theories. I’m mildly shocked
Their husbands won’t let them leave the house to see other people or to get an education. Not a big surprise.
Sorry, what aspect are we skeptical about here?
That's literally the entire purpose of them
No shit
F them
Gross
No different than OnlyFans or PornHub. Nothing but webcam models playing up to an audience that has some very particular kinks. And IMO, weird kinks at that. I’m less ashamed of having a thing for women in thigh highs than I would be if wanting to be mommied 24/7.
I mean, most ladies on PornHub or OF aren't advising you against having your kids vaccinated.
Gwen the Milkmaid was literally GwenGwiz on OF. She realized the OF grift wasn’t working so she pivoted to the tradwife grift.
Yeah, you'll always see them posting about drinking "nourishing bone broth" as opposed to "pharma" medicines, railing against feminism and supporting whatever else right wing nonsense Tim Pool has been on lately.
This has to be awkward since the far right is also a driving force on wanting to ban tiktok in the United States.
Honestly, I don't care what their reasoning is, I just want TikTok gone. I know people will find other avenues to do the same stuff, but maybe it would get *someone* out of the garbage for a little while. And that would be a win.
Am I allowed to beat my tradwife?
Yes.
As is tradition.
I mean, you have her permission, yes?
I already told her twice.
According to Pearl Davis, I think so.
Is this a kink?
It is interesting this definition creep we are seeing with the term “conspiracy theory” This article talks of a “general distrust of government”as an example of conspiracy theories. You do not need to believe in any conspiracy theory to have reasons to distrust the government. They breech our trust all the time in ways that nobody is claiming is a conspiracy, or even “just a theory”. And yet that gets lumped in with conspiracy theories. Why is that?
There's some nuance to consider here. When someone rants about the "deep state", that's full on conspiracy. If someone says I'm skeptical of these politicians intentions, that's just being realistic. The use of massive over generalizations and black and white thinking takes us into conspiracy territory quite quickly. Again, I don't trust pharmaceutical companies generally, but I don't think they're plotting to inject everyone with drugs to make us into sheep. A bigger challenge here is the right's perpetual use of dog whistles and how they use ambiguous language to maintain plausible deniability.
Deep state can be a full on conspiracy, or it can also be essentially general rant against technocracy with different vocabulary, although that is essentially what it is. And that is almost always what I hear when I hear deep state. Although sometimes there is a conspiracy theory tabled. And yes, black and white thinking and over-generalizations are a problem. Like the over-generalization that everyone who is distrustful of the government is a conspiracy theorists. There are many other reasons to distrust the government. Including literal conspiracies, I might add. As well as things like using lies to justify wars. Like the Iraq war. And as you add, there are plenty of legit reasons to distrust pharma companies, including their legal publicly available track record. And yea that doesn’t mean they have a plan to make us radio receivers. But my point is, and this article does not discern between the two, is that is very different than a general distrust of pharma companies. This article lumps them together. And sorry you have to take what these people say for face value. You have to chase these dog whistles pretty far before you find anyone actually saying the things everyone is supposedly whistling. At some point the “whistle” becomes the actual message if few enough people actually hear the secret message everyone is supposedly whistling to each other.
> Deep state can be a full on conspiracy, or it can also be essentially general rant against technocracy with different vocabulary, Conspiratorial vocabulary.
I haven’t heard the actual conspiracy this vocabulary is based on yet if that is the case.
The deep state???
Yes what is the conspiracy. Normally it just sounds like they are describing a bloated technocracy.
Who have you heard spreading this conspiracy?
> Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine. It’s really the anti modern medicine part that makes them conspiracy theorists.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of reasons to distrust pharma conpanies, including their publicly available legal track records. Look at the things these companies are being fined for. False claims, government contracting offenses, product safety violation. https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent-totals And they are near the top of the list for most penalized companies. These are not trustworthy entities. I wouldn’t hire a person with a legal track record like that to even work on my house! Not saying it is a valid reason to boycott all of modern medicine. But it should be reason for a healthy dose of skepticism. And again these aren’t conspiracies. These are documented legal proceedings. They have done these things.
I'm a physician, I'm "modern medicine", I also distrust pharmaceutical companies. Modern medicine isn't just pharmaceutical companies. It's a problematic part of modern medicine but that's like saying someone's entire family is shit because they have a kid in prison.
Six of the ten top legal offenders on that list are banks. What’s the tradwife position on banks? Asking because I don’t follow any tradwives
There is definitely an anti-bank element to it as well. I see a lot of it because I am into gardening and community-reliance, which has both a left leaning cadre and a right leaning cadre.
> Not saying it is a valid reason to boycott all of modern medicine. But it should be reason for a healthy dose of skepticism. This is the issue. These influencers aren’t operating in a healthy dose of skepticism. They are subscribing to conspiracy theories such as “the sun doesn’t cause cancer” This is what the article uses to describe the anti-modern medicine aspect of these people: > We defined “medical misinformation” posts as those that spread medical information or advice counter to mainstream agreement among medical professionals. These posts often spread false information about vaccines, the pharmaceutical industry, or modern medicine. It’s one thing to acknowledge a sketchy track record of certain pharmaceutical companies, but it’s something entirely different to make up false information about the industry, as these people do.
You’re being very generous in assuming these influencers are talking about the same kind of nuanced problems you are. The deep state theory, as it exists on the right, is that a cabal of devil worshiping progressives are trying to destroy America and to harm your family. Plenty of reason to be critical and skeptical of the government, but that’s not what these people are talking about.
I don’t think you are reading it correctly. - Note that on the table, “conspiracy theory and apocalyptic fearmongering” and “anti-government” are listed separately. - the following bullet points in the article separate them as well > - After we interacted with tradwife content, TikTok’s recommendation algorithm began flooding our FYP with right-wing conspiracy theory content. > - Our FYP also began displaying medical misinformation and anti-government content, specifically fearmongering about the need to prepare for an impending “civil war.” > - Of the 327 videos served to the “For You” page in Media Matters’ analysis, 100 (or 30.6%) contained conspiracy theories or apocalyptic fearmongering. - This paragraph separates them as well, indicating not that distrust of the government = conspiracy theory but that their conspiracy theories focus on distrust of the government: > Nearly every tradwife influencer we identified pushed baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points, often focusing on a general distrust of the government and modern medicine. These messages were positioned between soft visuals of baking, gardening, and modest fashion. - They then go on to list several conspiracy theories they detected, all of which are actual conspiracy theories and none of which are simply “distrust the government.” So I think you are reading them as conflating the two, but they are actually saying distrust of government is one of their modes, and that it expresses itself in several conspiracy theories.
Good point, and I basically agree, a good sceptic absolutely should distrust many government statements. The issue is distrust of the government as sold in the right-wing spheres is very disingenuous in my view. It generally seems to be used to sell working class people an anti regulatory and anti tax approach that only benefits the already wealthy and actively goes against the interests of its target audience. It goes hand in hand with distrust of experts and all the anti science stuff we saw on COVID and continue to see on climate. It's a bit of a gateway drug. If it was done alongside saying this is how to critically evaluate what your government is telling in terms of their motivation to be honest or dishonest or what it means for the individual or wider community then fair enough, but in these spaces, it isn't.
It would be a good point if it was made in reply to a post that conflated the two, but this one does not. It separates ‘distrust of government’ from ‘conspiracy theory’ with every mention.
So your complaint is that they don't distrust in the right way, the way you want them to. OK dude.
No, I'm happy for them to distrust from a Conservative point of view, and to disagreewith my opinion, but when that ends up in Qanon land or where a lot of anti science woo woo nonsense gets spread around I'd see that as a bad thing.
It’s very black and white to say their anti-regulatory anti-tax approach only benefits the wealthy. Some regulations do harm the wealthy. However, they have been very good at using regulations to promote a less competitive business environment for themselves. It isn’t as simple as saying more regulation=pro working class, and less regulation=pro capitalism. The online news act in Canada is one of those recent regulations that vastly benefitted the billionaire and government funded legacy media and harmed many small independent outlets, and made it pretty much impossible for anyone to make a successful news media start-up from here on out. And we know from public lobbying records who lobbied for it. And we know the independent media formed their own lobby to make amendments to the act that would make it more start-up and small outlet friendly. Every single one of their proposals was rejected. This is an example of regulation actually helping big business and harming small business. There is a lot of that too. The “gateway drug” argument is bogus. It’s the slippery slope fallacy. When they are right, they are right. When they are wrong, they are wrong.
That's exactly the kind of nuanced view that the people spreading conspiracy theories intentionally for their own benefit don't have. Everyone grants that governments do bad things under the influence of lobbyists and I'm sure we all have our own favorite example. That doesn't refute anything the guy you're replying to said. If you're Canadian you're probably coming from a slightly different place from those of us who suffered under Trumpism.
Not at all. Canada is a net exporter of that kind of politics. Jordan Petersen, Steven Crowder, Gavin McGinnis who started Proud Boys, Lauren Southern, Ezra Levant and Rebel Media, Karen Straughan, Gad Saad…
most of it's a troll then others are in a cult getting fleeced by mlm's [https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles)
Nothing quiet about them.
Color me shocked....(not)
‘Quietly?’
That’s always the point with these cult like trends.
I’m shocked obvious right wingers are spreading right wing nonsense
I think their husband's should best them for talking in public
Oh? Anyway, moving on…
No shit
Based
In other news, the sky is blue.
I know a 'TradWife Influencer" in real life. She makes good money from lonely conservative guys. She's also 100% fake. She works in marketing and did influencer stuff on the side until she started to make more pretending to be I Love Lucy. She's very left leaning and it's all an act for the money. She's read to me some of the messages she's gotten. They are a mix of deranged and hilarious.
Borrrrrrring! I wanna hear about the left leaning conspiracy theories! All I ever see here are these supposed right wing theories. And if none of you think left leaning conspiracy theories exist... then that's just plain naive. Extremists on both sides are just that... EXTREME. Far too many people on both sides act as if they were dropped on their heads as babies. Please tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
I thought that was the whole point
This is my shocked face
A weird thing to worry about a very ancient norm. In mammal species such as hominids, it is common for mates to do different work in the two-parent social arrangement.
That is their purpose In future, y'all need to learn to recognize when the folks around you are caught in a psy op (as opposed to a naturally occurring fad), it's pretty evident every single time they do it, once you know how to spot it
None of the trad wide influencers are actually doing what the preach either, but grifting in the age of social media is super easy and common….
They also dress that way of wifery, made up word apparently but fuck it, to be some great shit but it is very taxing/demanding even more so than what the husband is doing.
Are they really being that quiet about it? Pretty much every right-wing grift, be it tradwives or anti-vaxxers, have abandoned any notion of subtlety. They don't bother with the old "just asking questions" mantra that the Joe Rogans of the world once hid behind. They flat out say what their agenda is because they know a sizable chunk of the population is eager to buy into it, even if it's completely against their interests. That's where we are right now, as a society. And it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
How many people commenting in this thread are married?
Heavens! I hope you brought your fainting couch and smelling salts.
If you’re watching a bunch of tradwife videos you’re probably already really conservative though.
I will never understand sitting down and watching an influencer "I am the influenced. Sell me products. Don't even bother to entertain me. Just order me what to do and how to live my life."
It's TikTok and happens on both sides
Is this supposed to be news, or did people really not notice that tradwives are far-right? Obviously they are going to pop-up alongside far-right conspiracy theories in the algorithms.
The left needs to compete in these spaces. Being family oriented and being a male role model isn’t exclusively right wing. I predict they will only answer with derision and eventually some right wing subculture with a greater than replacement fertility rate will emerge and in 4-5 generations liberalism will fade into obscurity. It’s a damned shame
Luckily, we can count on many of their kids to convert to the Left, due to the hellscape that is the trad family.
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Demonstrable nonsense. The term is as old as the 1860s at least, featuring in a letter printed in a newspaper.
If you think the earth is flat, and snow isn't real, then you're a conspiracy theorist. No CIA involvement, just a few individuals slowly coming to terms with the fact that they're getting older and less relevant.
How is this news? Did people seriously not know this?
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Ya they are ridiculous over the top evil shitheads and they take pride in that