For anyone wondering, this is because torii looks at attack, tungsten rod looks at the damage caused by said attack.
This also means that because tungsten rod is looking at damage, it also affects events.
Kind of, it will reduce each proc of beat of death by 1 and will only stop 1 damage on regret, unless you meant pain, in which case it does completely nullify it.
Worth noting that it only affects damage to your HP, not block. So the heart will still fully strip your block pretty easily, but then can't do any HP damage. Not often relevant, but can sometimes matter if you were planning on stacking up block across multiple turns like with Calipers.
It's 100% consistent - Torii *always* checks first. This is because Torii is looking for (unblocked) *attack damage*, while Rod is looking for *losing HP* (an effect *caused by* damage).
For a hit of 5 (or less) (unblocked) damage, Torii checks it, sees it's <=5, and reduces it to 1. The 1 damage then attempts to reduce your HP by 1, and is further modified by Rod to reduce your health by 1 less, or 0.\*
For a hit of 6 (or more), Torii checks it, sees its >5, and does nothing. The 6 damage then attempts to reduce your HP by 6, and is modified by Rod to reduce your health by 1 less, or 5.
It's a bit unusual, but it makes sense if looked at right.
\*This has an unusual (but understandable) interaction with [[Static Discharge]]. Normally, an attack that deals 0 damage doesn't trigger Discharge. However, an attack that would deal 1, reduced to 0 by Rod, *will*. This can be understood by the above breakdown: The attack deals 1 *damage*, but Rod makes that 0 *HP lost*. This is the only interaction where that distinction matters, by the way - all other effects like it (i.e. [[Self-Forming Clay]]) specify they trigger on *HP loss*, and so won't trigger in this situation.
It'd be nice to have a proper test of incoming 6 damage. In any other instance, something applying would overwrite another thing not applying to make it apply. Torii states that if you would take 5 damage, make it 1. Tungsten makes the damage 5, so it should be 1. Another comment did also say that torii won't proc even if tungsten lowers the damage to the correct range, though.
here it really depends on the wording
tori : Whenever you would receive 5 or less unblocked \*\*[Attack](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Attack) damage\*\*, reduce it to 1.
tungsten "Whenever you would lose HP, lose 1 less."
when tungsten procs there is no \*\*attack damage\*\* anymore because its already morphed into \*\*hp loss\*\* (block and intangible etc already applied)
I had watcher run with apparitions and rod with incense burner had intangible for days, was able to just use blasphemy without any worry of dying would’ve had a lot of perfects if I didn’t get rod so late
Apparitions + Toxic Egg is also crazy. I just played a silent run with Apparitions, Toxic Egg, Runic Pyramid, Nightmare, and two Wraith Forms. The deck struggled with damage but it didn't even matter because I was invincible for 10 turns if I went all in.
oh agreed
recently I had a run with those two + 3x wraith form+
later on I have also bought a spoon
so in short, each fight I had at least 12 turns of intangible, easy win
Of course apparition is doing most of the work here (except against the heart). Reminds me of Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw)
Honestly it's the apparitions that are game breaking. The rod is very good as it always is, but it's not particularly great here. It's always just good regardless. -1 damage per damage taken.
Only time it's especially good is if you're doing like necronomicon infinites or something like that.
Although it does feel more satisfying when it takes 1 damage down to 0 rather than like 13 damage down to 12.
Intangible reduced dmg to 1 and then tungsten rod reduces all damage by -1 so you don't take any dmg with this build. Very broken since I had a few bloodletting and offering as well as brutality
Intangible lasts for the round. You take 1 damage on all attacks. The Tungsten rod means you always take 1 less damage, so the 1 damage decreases to 0 damage.
You never lose intangible on taking damage. Like I said, it lasts for the round. You might have been thinking of buffer, which wears off when you take damage. If you get attacked but the attack is blocked then buffer does not wear off.
Tori and rod is also a heartbreaking combo
Pretty much seals the deal on any run
Wait a sec, does that nullify any 6 and below damage instances?
Pretty sure it’s 5 and below but yeah it’s a broken combo
Ah so tori has priority in damage mitigation ok ty
For anyone wondering, this is because torii looks at attack, tungsten rod looks at the damage caused by said attack. This also means that because tungsten rod is looking at damage, it also affects events.
Ah I get it, attack damage value vs recieved dmg, thanks
so does rod nullify shit like beat of death and regret?
Yes, it reduces ANY hp loss, including events, cards like Offering, Regret, beat of death, literally anything that would cause you to lose health.
Kind of, it will reduce each proc of beat of death by 1 and will only stop 1 damage on regret, unless you meant pain, in which case it does completely nullify it.
Worth noting that it only affects damage to your HP, not block. So the heart will still fully strip your block pretty easily, but then can't do any HP damage. Not often relevant, but can sometimes matter if you were planning on stacking up block across multiple turns like with Calipers.
Nope. Not broken. Just synergistic.
5 or less -> 0 instead of 1
The difference between 5x15 and 6x15 is huge with this combo
Even more so 7×15
And 8x15!
No, 5×15 takes 0 damage, 6×15 takes 15 damage, but 7×15 takes 90 damage. After that it's just normal.
oh yeah and 9x15 would be even more!
6x15 does not take 15 damage - Torii doesn't proc so you take 75 damage... (5x15)
That's crazy. Every other time it would matter, it does, but suddenly relic interactions aren't the same anymore
It's 100% consistent - Torii *always* checks first. This is because Torii is looking for (unblocked) *attack damage*, while Rod is looking for *losing HP* (an effect *caused by* damage). For a hit of 5 (or less) (unblocked) damage, Torii checks it, sees it's <=5, and reduces it to 1. The 1 damage then attempts to reduce your HP by 1, and is further modified by Rod to reduce your health by 1 less, or 0.\* For a hit of 6 (or more), Torii checks it, sees its >5, and does nothing. The 6 damage then attempts to reduce your HP by 6, and is modified by Rod to reduce your health by 1 less, or 5. It's a bit unusual, but it makes sense if looked at right. \*This has an unusual (but understandable) interaction with [[Static Discharge]]. Normally, an attack that deals 0 damage doesn't trigger Discharge. However, an attack that would deal 1, reduced to 0 by Rod, *will*. This can be understood by the above breakdown: The attack deals 1 *damage*, but Rod makes that 0 *HP lost*. This is the only interaction where that distinction matters, by the way - all other effects like it (i.e. [[Self-Forming Clay]]) specify they trigger on *HP loss*, and so won't trigger in this situation.
+ [Static Discharge](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Static%20Discharge) Defect Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Whenever you take attack damage, **Channel** 1(2) **Lightning.** + [Self-Forming Clay](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Forming%20Clay) Uncommon (Ironclad only) Relic ^((100% sure)^) Whenever you lose HP in combat, gain 3 **Block** next turn. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
6x15 should take 75? Tori doesn’t prob but rod?
It'd be nice to have a proper test of incoming 6 damage. In any other instance, something applying would overwrite another thing not applying to make it apply. Torii states that if you would take 5 damage, make it 1. Tungsten makes the damage 5, so it should be 1. Another comment did also say that torii won't proc even if tungsten lowers the damage to the correct range, though.
here it really depends on the wording tori : Whenever you would receive 5 or less unblocked \*\*[Attack](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Attack) damage\*\*, reduce it to 1. tungsten "Whenever you would lose HP, lose 1 less." when tungsten procs there is no \*\*attack damage\*\* anymore because its already morphed into \*\*hp loss\*\* (block and intangible etc already applied)
The best.
Truly
Holy fucking fuck. That combo of yours is absurd.
Just finished a run with apparitions and corruption. Flawless victory.
I had watcher run with apparitions and rod with incense burner had intangible for days, was able to just use blasphemy without any worry of dying would’ve had a lot of perfects if I didn’t get rod so late
Yeah, the real combo is just apparitions with anything
Insane combo: playing an apparition
Absolutely busted combo.
literally infinity - 1 block 😱😱😱 (this is how math works my uncle works at calculus)
Apparitions + Toxic Egg is also crazy. I just played a silent run with Apparitions, Toxic Egg, Runic Pyramid, Nightmare, and two Wraith Forms. The deck struggled with damage but it didn't even matter because I was invincible for 10 turns if I went all in.
Throw a Burst in there somewhere too
And an incense burner. There's your luck for the rest of your life.
Spoon is good for this too, especially in longer fights where you can use all your intangible turns.
Tungston rod doing all the work here, if attacks were doing a whole 1 damage you would be screwed but with them doing 0 you can relax
these posts feels like baalord video thumbnails
New combo: 15 x [[Pommel Strike]] + [[Abacus]]
+ [Pommel Strike](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Pommel%20Strike) Ironclad Common Attack ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Deal 9(10) damage. Draw 1(2) card(s). + [The Abacus](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/The%20Abacus) Shop Relic ^((31% sure)^) Gain 6 **Block** whenever you shuffle your draw pile. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Good news, we finally broke Apparition
Wait till you hear of burst and nightmare. 😉
Burst + Nightmare + Wraith Form + Bullet Time is one of the most satisfying click-to-win combos in the game
last night I perfected the heart and the thing that allowed me to do it was this combo, can't get better than this
oh agreed recently I had a run with those two + 3x wraith form+ later on I have also bought a spoon so in short, each fight I had at least 12 turns of intangible, easy win
Either one of these by itself is ridiculously good.
Won a run yesterday with this combo. Sick.
Of course apparition is doing most of the work here (except against the heart). Reminds me of Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw)
Honestly it's the apparitions that are game breaking. The rod is very good as it always is, but it's not particularly great here. It's always just good regardless. -1 damage per damage taken. Only time it's especially good is if you're doing like necronomicon infinites or something like that. Although it does feel more satisfying when it takes 1 damage down to 0 rather than like 13 damage down to 12.
No, it’s the game working exactly as intended.
At first I thought tungsten road to be meh. Then I looked for relics tier list out of curiosity and discovered that it was very highly rated.
How does this work? 800+ hours and I dont think I've ever taken intangibles(wraith from yes but that was at about 500 hours lol)
Intangible reduced dmg to 1 and then tungsten rod reduces all damage by -1 so you don't take any dmg with this build. Very broken since I had a few bloodletting and offering as well as brutality
Do you not lose intangible because you take 0 damage?
Intangible lasts for the round. You take 1 damage on all attacks. The Tungsten rod means you always take 1 less damage, so the 1 damage decreases to 0 damage. You never lose intangible on taking damage. Like I said, it lasts for the round. You might have been thinking of buffer, which wears off when you take damage. If you get attacked but the attack is blocked then buffer does not wear off.
I was thinking about buffer, thanks for the clarification!