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So you're basically admitting your club voted Tebas so in exchange he bends the rules to favor Barcelona.
The rules that everyone agreed to, put in place to prevent La Liga clubs from overespending and going bankrupt.
The rules were fine, but after COVID every team barring athletic and madrid were financially fucked because they couldn't fit in FFP.
So Tebas comes in, floating a sale of future TV revenues (CVC deal), instead of relaxing FFP.
But the fundamental issue is that these original FFP rules work under regular economic circumstances, but after COVID teams couldn't register players anymore (because these ffp rules accounted for revenue over a certain amount of time, similar to UEFA coefficient).
This wasn't the same as Malaga getting pumped and dumped by sketchy owners. This was a crisis affecting almost every team. But Tebas would rather see teams (essentially) borrow from future revenue than actually allow teams to directly loan money to stay competitive
Why do people keep parroting that everyone was financially fucked if they don't know the situation?
Tell me, was Real Sociedad fucked? Because I follow the financials of my team and we were not
> Why do people keep parroting that everyone was financially fucked if they don't know the situation?
Because at the start of the season, 17 of 20 teams were unable to register players. Sorry, I forgot La Real was one of these teams
3 days before the start of the la liga season, only 39 of 90 new transfers were registered. Were you not aware of this? Fortunately La liga ended up relaxing FFP to an extent just before things went tits up.
> Tell me, was Real Sociedad fucked? Because I follow the financials of my team and we were not
Do you understand why you guys signed the CVC deal?
Yes, to improve our facilities faster. We just did a big investment in our stadium renovation and we have used CVC money to improve our training ground for both men and women team
If you keep breaking in new places there comes a time you have to pay your dues to the mafia. Unless you are the known virgin or running you own empire, you have to yield to their demands
and play be their rules. Barca's vote was always going to be ineffectual to the outcome but they had to make a public display of apology.
Tebas kept coming up with new ways to cripple Barca.
Athletic Club are the famed virgin who they did not have to put up for Tebas.
It's not really blaming, but don't go around claiming that this controversy is some grand conspiracy By Madrid. We have always been against Tebas and I think if it were up to us we would have voted for GLT.
That’s stupid logic. Barca didn’t vote on goal line technology specifically.
Regardless of the politics behind it, the players on the pitch didn’t vote. The fans didn’t vote. As a fan of the sport, that should matter more to you.
I thought we did until last night.
I think we should, but we dont, so there is no way to confirm if it was a goal or not, so pretty much everything went according to what shouldve happened.
Sucks for Barca, we should get GLT, but this is not a call against them, its the right call.
It's the "right" call under the circumstances and at the same time not the right/fair output mainly because the league is stingy.
I hope we make a big fuss to have GLT. I am pretty sure that we will get fucked because of it once that's implemented.
its all of the following:
- the right call given the data at hand
- genuinely embarrassing for a league hosting the biggest meeting in football to decide a goal like this without goal line tech
- shitty for barcelona if the ball really did get over the line
- not that substantial of an event in the context of the match since barcelona did go 2-1 up eventually anyway
The point of it being substantial or not is just so weird to me, because surely the game would change very much after a goal. Players and tactics change, thinking it would all be the same after a goal is so strange to me.
Foul on Kroos.
Also, it would have beeen debatable whereas the goal would have stood if the ball is completely in. I would say yes but [Cubarsí is right in front of Lunin and could have incurred into positional offside](https://i.gyazo.com/7d504114dcf7eb5e2e0072daf07b5816.jpg) when Lamime touches the ball. In my personal opinion Lunin is already making a move before Lamine touches it so I would say it would be legal... But these days I'm not sure with the referees we have.
It's a bit of a coinflip depending on the referee.
Cubarsi's position is relevant only if he meets one of the following criteria:
1. Impedes vision, that's a no as you can see.
2. Impedes movement, again that's a no as he isn't between the keeper and Christensen.
3. He could plausibly 'fool' the keeper into covering a direct action by Cubarsi, ie the keeper could believe Cubarsi is capable of getting up and winning a header to shoot, and again the answer is no because it was well over his head past the back post.
All that to say Cubarsi neither affected the play directly nor affected what the goalkeeper did/could do.
Exactly. Once you call something there needs to be enough info for it to be overturned. Since there is no GLT, they would not have clear evidence to indicate it did NOT go in. But this time it was the other way. There is no way of telling with the angels if the ball went in or not.
1) unless you're looking straight down, the optics are super deceptive. The Spurs Luton one from the wrong angle looked well into the goal and across, with space between the ball and the line and it still wasn't all the way in.
2) this is why you need goal line technology
That actually wasn't that situation, that was another Flames playoff game 11 years later.
But it's a great video to make it clear to everyone that, in fact, it was __not__ in back in 2004.
I haven't seen a single angle that makes me think it was most likely over the line, certainly nothing to warrant this level of outcry.
That said, there should be goal-line technology 100%, but I don't see this one as particularly controversial.
That's the problem: no proof, no goal. And how they don't have a camera lined up with the goal line on the other side of the keeper, I will never know.
the only angles that are definitive is if the camera is either at the corner flag or above the cross bar, no other angle is useful. [here’s a video showing why the clip you linked is pretty much useless](https://x.com/carlitosonda/status/1782179184741163439?s=46)
I just said it’s not definitive enough to overturn lol I’m just giving my opinion based on what’s available. Well aware it’s impossible to measure where a round object is in relationship to a line from this angle
No reason to reply to him.
He specifically addressed this line from the original comment:
>I haven't seen a single angle that makes me think it was most likely over the line
Then he linked a video with an angle that seemingly shows "it was most likely over the line."
It doesn't matter if the angle is deceptive or not because the original comment he replied to didn't specify that it had to be a definitive one.
You’re explaining against a point I never made though lol I was just pointing out it’s clearly close enough to warrant a controversy, not that it should be called a goal
I agree with your overall message but the ball in your clip is way closer to the line than in the clip you’re replying to. Again, I agree, but I understand why people would still wonder if we can’t deduce a little bit more from the barca clip just by looking at both the angle and the distance with the ball. Isn’t there some kind of math that could help I wonder.
The frontal angle is the most deceptive even though the ball is in clear sight, due to elevation of the ball, it actually was the angle from the back that is the better one, ironically, with the ball obscured.
You need just a little bit of common sense and the most basic of mental capacity to understand object permanence, people would be able to deduce the ball was clear inside.
Lunin was so far inside that even if you drew the vertical line, (giving Madrid the benefit of the doubt) by the last pixel furthest out of the body part that was obscuring the ball, downwards to meet the goalline, the point would meet the line behind Lunin’s centre mass, next to his backfoot. But the ball is in front, so it makes no sense it would meet the goal line behind him. Elevation can not play a role here since you drew it all the way down to meet the goalline.
Correct we don't have any goal-line technology due to Tebas and 95% of the First and Second division League presidents.
And sadly without that there can't be any evidence in this play due to the parallax angle.
I’d love someone to explain to me why angle matters here but not on offside? Not a single offside VAR review is dead down the offside line. Yet we all take it as able to go down to cm decisions.
Like what is preventing them from drawing a line at the goal line and a line at the edge of the ball and determining which is more advanced? How is it any different than an offside check?
But they're also not bloody Kirby, mate.
Surely we don't have to go into why it's easier to draw lines on the open field than it is to within the goal area. This is why the GLT is its own separate technology.
Open field doesn't have 2 fucking posts entirely obstructing the line, which is why off sides and goal line technologies use different methods to determine their respective decisions.
Much easier to decide where a ball begins and ends than a person, especially since you have to exclude their arms.
Also, there is a physical line already drawn on the ground that doesn’t move. For offside they draw 2 lines for 2 different players who are moving, sometimes in opposite directions. Oh, and they also have to pick the frame where the pass is played.
Using VAR offside style cameras to check if the ball crossed the line would be much much much easier and more accurate than they are for offside.
Angle should matter on offsides too. The FA Cup match between Coventry and ManU showed that. That’s why the automated offside was such a revelation at the World Cup. At least everyone can see what VAR is seeing. Varane’s bum will live in infamy for that last Argentina goal. They also needed goal line tech to confirm Messi’s shot did in fact cross the line.
[Direct link](https://rfef.es/es/noticias/vivimos-el-real-madrid-fc-barcelona-traves-de-los-audios-del-equipo-arbitral)
They also talked about:
0-1 (Possible foul on Kross): "Nothing. (Christensen) touchs him a little and that's it"
1-1 (Penalty decision): "It's a tackle, confirmed penalty". Ref: "I think it's clear".
1-2 (Ferran's possible offside): "There's no offside, so it doesn't matter if he's distracting (Lunin)".
yeah, if he even remotely attempted to jump there may have been a discussion there, but until he jumps (and is impeded) there is no possibility of foul there
Christensen was already long time in the air. Kroos was never going to jump for that, hence why he knew not to make a stink. Even if Christensen natural instinct is to somehow jump like a dolphin, he would still have to instinctively put his arms out from Kroos backing into him. No one likes to get Harry Kaned while in the air.(not that Kroos was intentional on that, he didnt know someone was behind him)
This is not true. Kroos attempts to jump, but can't do it because Christensen has already both hands on him even before he jumped.
[Video here.](https://twitter.com/MadridSports_/status/1782385866133872688) (the first one)
I'm not saying the goal should have been ruled out, but if the referees did, they would have a leg to stand with their decision.
What do you mean you don’t understand, you only need to understand that Kroos knew he fkd up getting beaten by position there, he was never going to make that jump, hence no complaint.
Is there anything around Rudiger blocking Fermin by his ass? That seemed more intentional blocking without going for the ball than the Cubrasi foul.
Also, anything where Camavinga tackle doesn't get the ball and instead very slightly gets Yamal? Not advocating for a penalty here but wondering how the discussions here compared to the Cubrasi penalty?
Is this only VAR audio? If it includes the fourth ref, I would like to hear how Kounde only got the yellow when Vini initiated the verbal fight.
> anything where Camavinga tackle doesn't get the ball and instead very slightly gets Yamal? Not advocating for a penalty here but wondering how the discussions here compared to the Cubrasi penalty?
Ref tells Yamal "please, don't try that, if/when it's inside the box, i'll rule it as a penalty" (falling inside the box after being fouled outside of it)
> Is there anything around Rudiger blocking Fermin by his ass?
"Ferran, I don't want any nonsense, you already got upset at the SuperCup. Rudiger, don't get worked up. Ferran, we were calm until you came out"
> If it includes the fourth ref, I would like to hear how Kounde only got the yellow when Vini initiated the verbal fight.
"one for you and one for you. You both need to chill. Relax, relax."
Thanks for this! Appreciate it!
A couple of quick clarifications -
>Ferran, I don't want any nonsense
Do you mean Fermin and not Ferran regarding the Rudiger incident?
>one for you and one for you
I don't quite understand this. Did Vini get a card?
Idc if that's a pen or not. It shouldn't as it is another disgrace to football that a player blatantly trying to fish for useless contact is rewarded. This kind of bullshit is what makes me like football less and less as I grow older.
I wonder how many people who don’t even speak Spanish are going to be outraged about this? I listened to the whole thing and thought the refs were being very reasonable in their assessments. Particularly for the ghost goal with the shitty inconclusive angles
And that’s what it’s been about. Anyone who says otherwise is just making up stuff. 99% of the complaints from Barça fans have been about the lack of goal line technology for this goal being disallowed.
Lmao I have across 100s of Barca fan posts/reels/shorts about blaming Madrid and refs for this and may be 2 posts about Barca fans blaming not having GLT.
Maybe because reddit posts are moderated. The game thread was full of Barca fans/madrid haters blaming every single decision of the refs even when he was relatively good last night.
Game threads are always reactionary shit take generators. I don’t value many opinions that are said in them tbh; my quality of life improved immensely when I stopped even looking in them.
If the penalty on Vazquez was given, Fermin should’ve been given one and Lamine should’ve been given one, those are on the refs for not giving those. The not-given goal was straight up on GLT. Camavinga pulled on Lamine as the last man back, should’ve been a red like Araujo just got against PSG.
The refs weren’t infallible. They fucked up a lot. Relatively good was not a way to describe that performance, muddled and dirty is a better descriptor.
Fermin ran into Rudiger, even if Rudiger bulldozed into him and a pen wasn’t given, it would’ve been on par with La Liga because I don’t remember seeing any of those given much this whole season. Madrid has had like, 5 such fouls happened so far not a single one given. That’s just how Laliga refs work in general.
As for the Yamal foul, both Yamal and Lucas were seeking contact with their trailing leg and got it. Difference is, you can see on the replay that Cubarsi actually clips Lucas’s left leg first with his extended foot even before Lucas made contact with the right foot. Even if Lucas wasn’t trying to seek the foul, he would have been clipped nonetheless, whereas Camavinga didn’t make any contact until Yamal hit him with his trailing leg and folded. Even if referee didn’t originally give the pen, Lucas’s pen would’ve probably been overturned by VAR because Cubarsi got him on both legs.
Rudiger backs into him. If he stood still, it’s not a penalty. Rudiger seeks the contact, not Fermin. Watch it again if you don’t believe me.
Both were as soft as cheese and shouldn’t have been given, but since Vazquez’s was given, Lamine’s should’ve been as well. Consistency between the calls was not there.
You’re prob 40 crying on Reddit about a shit team , take some time move out of ur parents house. Not one win against Madrid this season cry harder old fart
That’s hilarious. I’m 24 and just finished my masters in engineering. I’m doing incredibly well for myself, thanks for asking!
Stay in school though. One day you might be able to keep up with a conversation.
Yea, and was even more impressive that while they were looking at all the angles, the ref multiple times said “there is no rush, look at all the angles, we will wait as long as we have to”.
I gotta agree there, it seemed pretty good work from the main ref. We don't really see the VAR team (just hear them), but the parts selected by the RFEF for this video seem solid.
Though i speak Galician primarily, i could understand them well enough to be satisfied at thier descision
Honestly, thier assesment was fair, they dont have Goal Line technology so they made the conclusion based on the tools they had, hence thier penultimate call was perfectly amicable.
You speak good Galician but only limited Spanish? That's interesting, how come? Every person from Galicia that I met either only spoke Spanish or fluent Spanish and Galician.
Sorry, i did meant to or did i explicitly insuniate that my Spanish is limited. It is not. Rather its not as good as it should be due to circumstances.
Also, I am pretty good at Catalan actually, thats because i moved to Eixample years back so i ended up learning Catalan naturally by speaking with everyone, same as Galician. I never learned Español that way, just in School.
Regardless, its my language, sad not many these days want to speak it as much.
Thats all.
Yeah! It's really cool that it's more common again that Galician is teached in schools. It was always fun to ask my Castillian friends if they think Galician is a language or a dialect and watch the discussion unfold.
I think there are some cases where the distinction between a language and a dialect can be tricky to make, but for Galician I think it's pretty much agreed by linguists that it is a language.
I don't know how people in Spain perceive it, but yeah, I think it's pretty clearly its own language.
I dont mean to say it was "unprofessional", but it was waay more casual than I thought. All the little talks with the players, very informative tbh. And the "pa tí, y a pa tí" lmao
I mean that type of talks happens all the time. You can find plenty of videos from Mateu Lahoz asking players how their families at home are doing and if everything's alright, both before kickoff and during playtime.
Good, can’t give a goal without 100% certainty that the ball went it fully. Would have been an easy decision to make with Goal-line Technology, but can’t blame the VAR people with that.
> but can’t blame the VAR people with that.
Tell that to [Mr Laporta](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1ca9une/fcbarcelonacom_joan_laporta_as_president_of_fc/)
There was no goal to begin with, so VAR decided to stick with the on field decision because of insufficient evidence. Had the ref called it a goal, then it would stand for the same reason too
Even without the fancy smancy goalline tech, a simple camera on the four corners looking down the goalline would have done the trick. Hell, you can cheap out and place only two with them being on the opposite side of the linesman. Or better yet, you only need hang one camera each goalpost above the goal bar looking down.
I just found it odd that as they are rotating through the still shots, there's only one not of Lunin's back. The audio says they're going to look at 360 degree camera shots but the only one facing the GK is at an angle which can't definitively confirm the distance traveled over the goal line.
Like 2-3 of those shots would have been great if they were mirrored on the other side of the pitch...
Is truly ridiculous there isn't one single image from the side to confirmed whether is a Goal or not. Hell, even Argentina was able to get multiple angles during boca v river
Madrid wanted to depose the president and introduce the technology. Barcelona voted against it. It's their own fault. And since this technology doesn't exist, the referees didn't do anything wrong in this game.
If they are going to rely on VAR for goals like this there has to be rules around camera placement to prevent this from happening. If they can't figure it out they have to buy goal line technology. Clearly nothing the refs can do when no camera angle allows them to use their tool. I'm just really confused as of to how is it even possible for there to be no camera that sees it from above. It is a pathetic level of foresight from the organisers. I personally don't buy the perspective that this was the inevitable outcome, there should be camera drones all over this stadium and cameras hanging on threads above the goal. Again just how is it possible for none of them to see what happened at a good enough angle?
It's kinda crazy how la liga can't go more than 1 week without having a big issue. Having goal line technology and semi automated offside just makes the game run smoother by removing human error and the time it takes for them to input the information. It just dosen't make sense to have long breaks in the middle of games to wait for people to draw lines that isn't consistent and could be determined by a nervous hand not finding the right placement (or even worse not have enough information to draw the lines at all like in this case). It shouldn't be a matter of interpretion if somebody is offside or if a ball is over the line when you can remove the randomness entirely. The fact that it is not a big deal economicly for either the league or teams just makes it so much worse. Trying to save pennys to lose millions by making the league a worse product.
And this is how Tebass operates. Cheapskate shit league. Cannot say it was a goal or not without any conclusive evidence but this is why every top league in the world has GLT.
You know Barcelona and every other club except Bilbao and Madrid voted for Tebas to continue (with a pay hike). Only Madrid opposed Tebas's decision to not implement GLT because of the price.
No, but voting for a salary increase when he removed glt is the most moronic shit ever. Although them not voting for it wouldn't have made much of a difference because the other clubs love him.
Yes it has to pass the goal line 100% but since the ball is a sphere certain angles without goal line technology it looks it touches the line still others look like it crossed it completely
Lmfao Barca presidente voted for this crap. Now that it back fires on Barca they don’t blame him , they blame Madrid. Madrid is ur daddy and u certainly act like
It.
Lets say the goal did go in and its given. What are the chances the goal would stand? Seeing as cubarsi was standing infront of lunin obstructing him. I remember something like that given offside in barca vs villareal a while back.
I don't understand why this call is the one getting the majority of the attention from a point of view of ref criticism. We've all seen there is no decisive angle that clearly shows a goal or no goal. They're not going to overrule which ever on field call was made based off of the videos. It just shows that goal line tech is needed. And before someone comments, yes, I'm aware Laporta voted for Tebas' salary increase and the lack of goal line tech. And I'm not happy about that.
That video and VAR still didn't show anything about the two worse decisions being Rudiger's foul on Fermin or Camvinga's tackle into Lamine. I'd really like to hear their explanations on why those weren't fouls and subsequent penalties, the Rudiger one was especially obvious. Neither had "the let everything go on a corner" excuse. They were open play dribbles, with Fermin's especially being a strong goal scoring chance.
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Well judging from my understanding of why, we have Tebas to thank for no goal line technology.
And barca voted on him, so this is on Barca too
And if we didnt vote for him we wouldnt have been able to spend a penny this summer.
So the club sold itself to not be held accountable for their own actions in the past.
Kind of, but he would have won going away even without Barca's vote anyways
Oh yeah, just like how Gavi's signing was dragged to court just for us to win it and sign him. That was very dastardly of us for sure. Idiot.
Pipe down 11 points
So you're basically admitting your club voted Tebas so in exchange he bends the rules to favor Barcelona. The rules that everyone agreed to, put in place to prevent La Liga clubs from overespending and going bankrupt.
The rules were fine, but after COVID every team barring athletic and madrid were financially fucked because they couldn't fit in FFP. So Tebas comes in, floating a sale of future TV revenues (CVC deal), instead of relaxing FFP. But the fundamental issue is that these original FFP rules work under regular economic circumstances, but after COVID teams couldn't register players anymore (because these ffp rules accounted for revenue over a certain amount of time, similar to UEFA coefficient). This wasn't the same as Malaga getting pumped and dumped by sketchy owners. This was a crisis affecting almost every team. But Tebas would rather see teams (essentially) borrow from future revenue than actually allow teams to directly loan money to stay competitive
Why do people keep parroting that everyone was financially fucked if they don't know the situation? Tell me, was Real Sociedad fucked? Because I follow the financials of my team and we were not
> Why do people keep parroting that everyone was financially fucked if they don't know the situation? Because at the start of the season, 17 of 20 teams were unable to register players. Sorry, I forgot La Real was one of these teams 3 days before the start of the la liga season, only 39 of 90 new transfers were registered. Were you not aware of this? Fortunately La liga ended up relaxing FFP to an extent just before things went tits up. > Tell me, was Real Sociedad fucked? Because I follow the financials of my team and we were not Do you understand why you guys signed the CVC deal?
Yes, to improve our facilities faster. We just did a big investment in our stadium renovation and we have used CVC money to improve our training ground for both men and women team
If you keep breaking in new places there comes a time you have to pay your dues to the mafia. Unless you are the known virgin or running you own empire, you have to yield to their demands and play be their rules. Barca's vote was always going to be ineffectual to the outcome but they had to make a public display of apology. Tebas kept coming up with new ways to cripple Barca. Athletic Club are the famed virgin who they did not have to put up for Tebas.
no, the club voted for tebas so in exchange he doesn't bend the rules to go against barcelona
more like they voted Tebas so that more or less the same rules apply to Barcelona as everyone else. check Felix and Gavi registration sagas.
They made their bed and they don’t want to sleep in it lol
Story of Barca as a club and it's fans
As if he won’t be president if we voted against him. Why Barca has to be blamed for everything?
It's not really blaming, but don't go around claiming that this controversy is some grand conspiracy By Madrid. We have always been against Tebas and I think if it were up to us we would have voted for GLT.
>controversy is some grand conspiracy By Madrid. Man exactly the comment below you is doing that lmao.
That’s stupid logic. Barca didn’t vote on goal line technology specifically. Regardless of the politics behind it, the players on the pitch didn’t vote. The fans didn’t vote. As a fan of the sport, that should matter more to you.
Yeah it’s Barca’s fault Madrid always gets away with crap like this
That's fair. We have only fan captured videos and cannot be used to make decisions.
I seem to remember a video on here of a lower league or amateur game that went to the crowd for phone video review
Gundogan running to the referee pointing at an imaginary watch was kinda funny. Must have thought surely we have a goal line tech in Spain
I thought we did until last night. I think we should, but we dont, so there is no way to confirm if it was a goal or not, so pretty much everything went according to what shouldve happened. Sucks for Barca, we should get GLT, but this is not a call against them, its the right call.
It's the "right" call under the circumstances and at the same time not the right/fair output mainly because the league is stingy. I hope we make a big fuss to have GLT. I am pretty sure that we will get fucked because of it once that's implemented.
its all of the following: - the right call given the data at hand - genuinely embarrassing for a league hosting the biggest meeting in football to decide a goal like this without goal line tech - shitty for barcelona if the ball really did get over the line - not that substantial of an event in the context of the match since barcelona did go 2-1 up eventually anyway
You’re right on 3/4 of those. Saying that’s it’s not substantial just because Barca went on to score a 2nd goal 40 minutes later is pretty ridiculous
The point of it being substantial or not is just so weird to me, because surely the game would change very much after a goal. Players and tactics change, thinking it would all be the same after a goal is so strange to me.
It's not substantial in part because Cubarsi's opening goal shouldn't have stood either
You mean Christensen? And why not?
Sorry yes Christensen.
Foul on Kroos. Also, it would have beeen debatable whereas the goal would have stood if the ball is completely in. I would say yes but [Cubarsí is right in front of Lunin and could have incurred into positional offside](https://i.gyazo.com/7d504114dcf7eb5e2e0072daf07b5816.jpg) when Lamime touches the ball. In my personal opinion Lunin is already making a move before Lamine touches it so I would say it would be legal... But these days I'm not sure with the referees we have. It's a bit of a coinflip depending on the referee.
Cubarsi's position is relevant only if he meets one of the following criteria: 1. Impedes vision, that's a no as you can see. 2. Impedes movement, again that's a no as he isn't between the keeper and Christensen. 3. He could plausibly 'fool' the keeper into covering a direct action by Cubarsi, ie the keeper could believe Cubarsi is capable of getting up and winning a header to shoot, and again the answer is no because it was well over his head past the back post. All that to say Cubarsi neither affected the play directly nor affected what the goalkeeper did/could do.
So if the ref had given a goal it would have been the right call too? In not overturning it?
Exactly. Once you call something there needs to be enough info for it to be overturned. Since there is no GLT, they would not have clear evidence to indicate it did NOT go in. But this time it was the other way. There is no way of telling with the angels if the ball went in or not.
Yeah, even the commentator said the refs watch mustn't have buzzed to indicate the ball had crossed the line lol
1) unless you're looking straight down, the optics are super deceptive. The Spurs Luton one from the wrong angle looked well into the goal and across, with space between the ball and the line and it still wasn't all the way in. 2) this is why you need goal line technology
[Here's](https://youtu.be/QSG8mzwwOs8?si=66MAGc4xw137KfUs) a good explanation of the parallax angle and why it's not "clear and obvious".
Was not expecting Flames v Lightning example!
That actually wasn't that situation, that was another Flames playoff game 11 years later. But it's a great video to make it clear to everyone that, in fact, it was __not__ in back in 2004.
I haven't seen a single angle that makes me think it was most likely over the line, certainly nothing to warrant this level of outcry. That said, there should be goal-line technology 100%, but I don't see this one as particularly controversial.
That's the problem: no proof, no goal. And how they don't have a camera lined up with the goal line on the other side of the keeper, I will never know.
It’s not clear and obvious enough to overturn, but this angle makes it look like a goal to me. https://www.reddit.com/r/Barca/s/dkOqepCgSl
the only angles that are definitive is if the camera is either at the corner flag or above the cross bar, no other angle is useful. [here’s a video showing why the clip you linked is pretty much useless](https://x.com/carlitosonda/status/1782179184741163439?s=46)
I just said it’s not definitive enough to overturn lol I’m just giving my opinion based on what’s available. Well aware it’s impossible to measure where a round object is in relationship to a line from this angle
and i explained why that angle is deceptive
No reason to reply to him. He specifically addressed this line from the original comment: >I haven't seen a single angle that makes me think it was most likely over the line Then he linked a video with an angle that seemingly shows "it was most likely over the line." It doesn't matter if the angle is deceptive or not because the original comment he replied to didn't specify that it had to be a definitive one.
You’re explaining against a point I never made though lol I was just pointing out it’s clearly close enough to warrant a controversy, not that it should be called a goal
I agree with your overall message but the ball in your clip is way closer to the line than in the clip you’re replying to. Again, I agree, but I understand why people would still wonder if we can’t deduce a little bit more from the barca clip just by looking at both the angle and the distance with the ball. Isn’t there some kind of math that could help I wonder.
It's closer to the line in 3D, but it might not be in 2D, the ball is in the air, so it makes it look even more deceptive.
Yeah good point about the ball being in the air.
There is also one from the other side where you can't even see the ball anymore because it goes so deep into his arms. I guess we'll never know!
Still they can detect any type of offside but they cant see if a ball goes past a marked line.
The frontal angle is the most deceptive even though the ball is in clear sight, due to elevation of the ball, it actually was the angle from the back that is the better one, ironically, with the ball obscured. You need just a little bit of common sense and the most basic of mental capacity to understand object permanence, people would be able to deduce the ball was clear inside. Lunin was so far inside that even if you drew the vertical line, (giving Madrid the benefit of the doubt) by the last pixel furthest out of the body part that was obscuring the ball, downwards to meet the goalline, the point would meet the line behind Lunin’s centre mass, next to his backfoot. But the ball is in front, so it makes no sense it would meet the goal line behind him. Elevation can not play a role here since you drew it all the way down to meet the goalline.
Correct we don't have any goal-line technology due to Tebas and 95% of the First and Second division League presidents. And sadly without that there can't be any evidence in this play due to the parallax angle.
Not only that, I saw the correct angle they have and Lunin is covering the ball so it's still inconclusive.
Laporta voted for Tebas salary raise lol.
The call is coming from inside the house!
I’d love someone to explain to me why angle matters here but not on offside? Not a single offside VAR review is dead down the offside line. Yet we all take it as able to go down to cm decisions. Like what is preventing them from drawing a line at the goal line and a line at the edge of the ball and determining which is more advanced? How is it any different than an offside check?
Its harder to determine where the edges of a round object is.
Yeah, because the players are just parallel boxes running, and definitely don't have round-ish edges (elbows, shoulders, shoes, head) lol
But they're also not bloody Kirby, mate. Surely we don't have to go into why it's easier to draw lines on the open field than it is to within the goal area. This is why the GLT is its own separate technology.
Nintendo Football could be a great game! I'm picturing a weird cross between Rocket League, Mario Kart, and Super Smash.
Isn't that the [Mario Strikers](https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/mario-strikers-battle-league-switch/) series?
Huh. TIL!
Open field doesn't have 2 fucking posts entirely obstructing the line, which is why off sides and goal line technologies use different methods to determine their respective decisions.
For a goal, you need the entire ball to cross the line For an offside, just having a part of your body offside is enough
It’s basically the same thing: a part of the ball or body has to be completely after or before a line. Same concept.
There is a difference between an elbow, nose, shoes, etc and ball lol. Stupid comparison.
Much easier to decide where a ball begins and ends than a person, especially since you have to exclude their arms. Also, there is a physical line already drawn on the ground that doesn’t move. For offside they draw 2 lines for 2 different players who are moving, sometimes in opposite directions. Oh, and they also have to pick the frame where the pass is played. Using VAR offside style cameras to check if the ball crossed the line would be much much much easier and more accurate than they are for offside.
Angle should matter on offsides too. The FA Cup match between Coventry and ManU showed that. That’s why the automated offside was such a revelation at the World Cup. At least everyone can see what VAR is seeing. Varane’s bum will live in infamy for that last Argentina goal. They also needed goal line tech to confirm Messi’s shot did in fact cross the line.
Because the ball is an sphere while in a normal offside line we would be taking a part of the human body as the reference point instead.
Trigonometry
Sure but how hard can it to put a camera behind the post or something for an extra help in cases like this.
[Direct link](https://rfef.es/es/noticias/vivimos-el-real-madrid-fc-barcelona-traves-de-los-audios-del-equipo-arbitral) They also talked about: 0-1 (Possible foul on Kross): "Nothing. (Christensen) touchs him a little and that's it" 1-1 (Penalty decision): "It's a tackle, confirmed penalty". Ref: "I think it's clear". 1-2 (Ferran's possible offside): "There's no offside, so it doesn't matter if he's distracting (Lunin)".
If Kroos made a bigger deal out of the push, I think the conversation would be different.
Noted too that Kroos didn't complain. Respect to that since I think Christensen should be allowed to act as he did.
yeah, if he even remotely attempted to jump there may have been a discussion there, but until he jumps (and is impeded) there is no possibility of foul there
Bale scoring the same goal vs barca with less contact getting called a foul 🤔
Yeah Jordi ran backwards into him and fell on the floor. Madrid won that game anyways, I think.
Christensen was already long time in the air. Kroos was never going to jump for that, hence why he knew not to make a stink. Even if Christensen natural instinct is to somehow jump like a dolphin, he would still have to instinctively put his arms out from Kroos backing into him. No one likes to get Harry Kaned while in the air.(not that Kroos was intentional on that, he didnt know someone was behind him)
This is not true. Kroos attempts to jump, but can't do it because Christensen has already both hands on him even before he jumped. [Video here.](https://twitter.com/MadridSports_/status/1782385866133872688) (the first one) I'm not saying the goal should have been ruled out, but if the referees did, they would have a leg to stand with their decision.
I don't understand how was that goal allowed and why is nobody talking about it.
What do you mean you don’t understand, you only need to understand that Kroos knew he fkd up getting beaten by position there, he was never going to make that jump, hence no complaint.
Bro literally climbed on him, I see no one else talking about that
because it isn't a foul, this happens on every corner and free kick into the box.
It’s one where it gets called in midfield but not in the area IMO. One of many things.
Is there anything around Rudiger blocking Fermin by his ass? That seemed more intentional blocking without going for the ball than the Cubrasi foul. Also, anything where Camavinga tackle doesn't get the ball and instead very slightly gets Yamal? Not advocating for a penalty here but wondering how the discussions here compared to the Cubrasi penalty? Is this only VAR audio? If it includes the fourth ref, I would like to hear how Kounde only got the yellow when Vini initiated the verbal fight.
> anything where Camavinga tackle doesn't get the ball and instead very slightly gets Yamal? Not advocating for a penalty here but wondering how the discussions here compared to the Cubrasi penalty? Ref tells Yamal "please, don't try that, if/when it's inside the box, i'll rule it as a penalty" (falling inside the box after being fouled outside of it) > Is there anything around Rudiger blocking Fermin by his ass? "Ferran, I don't want any nonsense, you already got upset at the SuperCup. Rudiger, don't get worked up. Ferran, we were calm until you came out" > If it includes the fourth ref, I would like to hear how Kounde only got the yellow when Vini initiated the verbal fight. "one for you and one for you. You both need to chill. Relax, relax."
Amazing. Thank you for your service. I wish they put this on TV in realtime, even if it was just subtitles
Thanks for this! Appreciate it! A couple of quick clarifications - >Ferran, I don't want any nonsense Do you mean Fermin and not Ferran regarding the Rudiger incident? >one for you and one for you I don't quite understand this. Did Vini get a card?
>I don't quite understand this. Did Vini get a card? Yup he did. I missed it too on my stream but he definitely got booked too.
After the incident with Fermin, Rudiger and Ferran started arguing with each other
Funniest thing is how many Barca fans I’ve seen disputing the pen lol.
Idc if that's a pen or not. It shouldn't as it is another disgrace to football that a player blatantly trying to fish for useless contact is rewarded. This kind of bullshit is what makes me like football less and less as I grow older.
Both his legs were clipped.
Neither leg is clipped. Lucas extends his leg unnaturally to create the contact.
Buddy go watch it again and [look at his left foot](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1c9qeal/cubarsi_foul_on_lucas_vasquez_alternate_angle/)
I wonder how many people who don’t even speak Spanish are going to be outraged about this? I listened to the whole thing and thought the refs were being very reasonable in their assessments. Particularly for the ghost goal with the shitty inconclusive angles
I was fully expecting a "Rafa, no me jodas" situation there but they acted really professional.
The outrage shouldn't be about the refs. It should be about the lack of goal line technology.
And that’s what it’s been about. Anyone who says otherwise is just making up stuff. 99% of the complaints from Barça fans have been about the lack of goal line technology for this goal being disallowed.
Lmao I have across 100s of Barca fan posts/reels/shorts about blaming Madrid and refs for this and may be 2 posts about Barca fans blaming not having GLT.
Look at our threads on r/Barca. They’re all saying that it’s unfortunate but that it’s ultimately GLT’s fault
Maybe because reddit posts are moderated. The game thread was full of Barca fans/madrid haters blaming every single decision of the refs even when he was relatively good last night.
Game threads are always reactionary shit take generators. I don’t value many opinions that are said in them tbh; my quality of life improved immensely when I stopped even looking in them. If the penalty on Vazquez was given, Fermin should’ve been given one and Lamine should’ve been given one, those are on the refs for not giving those. The not-given goal was straight up on GLT. Camavinga pulled on Lamine as the last man back, should’ve been a red like Araujo just got against PSG. The refs weren’t infallible. They fucked up a lot. Relatively good was not a way to describe that performance, muddled and dirty is a better descriptor.
Fermin ran into Rudiger, even if Rudiger bulldozed into him and a pen wasn’t given, it would’ve been on par with La Liga because I don’t remember seeing any of those given much this whole season. Madrid has had like, 5 such fouls happened so far not a single one given. That’s just how Laliga refs work in general. As for the Yamal foul, both Yamal and Lucas were seeking contact with their trailing leg and got it. Difference is, you can see on the replay that Cubarsi actually clips Lucas’s left leg first with his extended foot even before Lucas made contact with the right foot. Even if Lucas wasn’t trying to seek the foul, he would have been clipped nonetheless, whereas Camavinga didn’t make any contact until Yamal hit him with his trailing leg and folded. Even if referee didn’t originally give the pen, Lucas’s pen would’ve probably been overturned by VAR because Cubarsi got him on both legs.
Rudiger backs into him. If he stood still, it’s not a penalty. Rudiger seeks the contact, not Fermin. Watch it again if you don’t believe me. Both were as soft as cheese and shouldn’t have been given, but since Vazquez’s was given, Lamine’s should’ve been as well. Consistency between the calls was not there.
Bro I just typed a whole ass paragraph explaining how the two events were different. I don’t even put this much effort for my assignments these days.
Ref was generally good. The Rüdiger foul was def. a pen though. Situation like that never been given a pen doesn't make it better.
More like always blaming Madrid and how they have the refs in their pockets. Pathetic fan base
Generalizations make everyone sound stupid.
Sounds like Barcas fan Base
“Barcas fan Base” You’re probably 10, take some time to learn and develop your brain.
You’re prob 40 crying on Reddit about a shit team , take some time move out of ur parents house. Not one win against Madrid this season cry harder old fart
That’s hilarious. I’m 24 and just finished my masters in engineering. I’m doing incredibly well for myself, thanks for asking! Stay in school though. One day you might be able to keep up with a conversation.
Who Asked ? Lmao loser looking for recognition on Reddit 😂. Someone give this kid a pat on the back. I’m here for the football and your team is crap.
This English translation seems pretty straightforward. What would the outrage be?
It's reddit, the world's largest producer of manufactured outrage.
Bro don't do X dirty like that, Elon has put in a lot of effort for that Though we're easily second place, I'll give you that
Only because Tumblr isn't what it used to be
Tbh, even before Elon, Twitter was leading the outrage machine lol. Place has been a cesspit for years.
No it isn't! How DARE you!
It's even comical at a couple of times. The "pa ti!... y pa ti!" (for you! and for you!) when the ref cards vini and koundé got me laughing.
lmao its so funny tbh
I laughed when he told Pedri to let him do his job late in the game. His sass level showed his confidence grew as the match went along 🤣
Yea, and was even more impressive that while they were looking at all the angles, the ref multiple times said “there is no rush, look at all the angles, we will wait as long as we have to”.
Tampoco… tampoco… tampoco… Haha that part got me for some reason.
I gotta agree there, it seemed pretty good work from the main ref. We don't really see the VAR team (just hear them), but the parts selected by the RFEF for this video seem solid.
Though i speak Galician primarily, i could understand them well enough to be satisfied at thier descision Honestly, thier assesment was fair, they dont have Goal Line technology so they made the conclusion based on the tools they had, hence thier penultimate call was perfectly amicable.
You speak good Galician but only limited Spanish? That's interesting, how come? Every person from Galicia that I met either only spoke Spanish or fluent Spanish and Galician.
Sorry, i did meant to or did i explicitly insuniate that my Spanish is limited. It is not. Rather its not as good as it should be due to circumstances. Also, I am pretty good at Catalan actually, thats because i moved to Eixample years back so i ended up learning Catalan naturally by speaking with everyone, same as Galician. I never learned Español that way, just in School. Regardless, its my language, sad not many these days want to speak it as much. Thats all.
Yeah! It's really cool that it's more common again that Galician is teached in schools. It was always fun to ask my Castillian friends if they think Galician is a language or a dialect and watch the discussion unfold.
I think there are some cases where the distinction between a language and a dialect can be tricky to make, but for Galician I think it's pretty much agreed by linguists that it is a language. I don't know how people in Spain perceive it, but yeah, I think it's pretty clearly its own language.
Huh, I did not have “La Liga’s referees coming out looking competent after a controversial Clasico” in my 2024 bingo card…
This was the most professional behavior audio that has ever come out from VAR. I'm impressed.
I dont mean to say it was "unprofessional", but it was waay more casual than I thought. All the little talks with the players, very informative tbh. And the "pa tí, y a pa tí" lmao
I mean that type of talks happens all the time. You can find plenty of videos from Mateu Lahoz asking players how their families at home are doing and if everything's alright, both before kickoff and during playtime.
Lahoz ringleader behind the home muggings in Spain confirmed
Good, can’t give a goal without 100% certainty that the ball went it fully. Would have been an easy decision to make with Goal-line Technology, but can’t blame the VAR people with that.
> but can’t blame the VAR people with that. Tell that to [Mr Laporta](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1ca9une/fcbarcelonacom_joan_laporta_as_president_of_fc/)
>disallowed goal Brother it wasnt even given to be disallowed.
I see that sort of thing a lot. The linesman disallowing a goal, VAR conforming it and then people saying VAR disallowed it.
There was no goal to begin with, so VAR decided to stick with the on field decision because of insufficient evidence. Had the ref called it a goal, then it would stand for the same reason too
PATHETIC….to say the least. The Federation earns so much, yet do not have the important technology which is the need of the hour!!! Very Very SAD😏😒😔
TIL La Liga does not have GLT
Even without the fancy smancy goalline tech, a simple camera on the four corners looking down the goalline would have done the trick. Hell, you can cheap out and place only two with them being on the opposite side of the linesman. Or better yet, you only need hang one camera each goalpost above the goal bar looking down.
I just found it odd that as they are rotating through the still shots, there's only one not of Lunin's back. The audio says they're going to look at 360 degree camera shots but the only one facing the GK is at an angle which can't definitively confirm the distance traveled over the goal line. Like 2-3 of those shots would have been great if they were mirrored on the other side of the pitch...
For a big game, why isn’t there a goal cam?
Is truly ridiculous there isn't one single image from the side to confirmed whether is a Goal or not. Hell, even Argentina was able to get multiple angles during boca v river
No robbery, very reasonable.
Given the constraints they have (i.e., no goal line technology), that was handled very well.
Were you expecting them to say "it's a goal but not against RM"? The issue here isn't their review but that there is no goal line tech in 2024!
Madrid wanted to depose the president and introduce the technology. Barcelona voted against it. It's their own fault. And since this technology doesn't exist, the referees didn't do anything wrong in this game.
clown of a league! can't believe the clubs voted for tebas
If they are going to rely on VAR for goals like this there has to be rules around camera placement to prevent this from happening. If they can't figure it out they have to buy goal line technology. Clearly nothing the refs can do when no camera angle allows them to use their tool. I'm just really confused as of to how is it even possible for there to be no camera that sees it from above. It is a pathetic level of foresight from the organisers. I personally don't buy the perspective that this was the inevitable outcome, there should be camera drones all over this stadium and cameras hanging on threads above the goal. Again just how is it possible for none of them to see what happened at a good enough angle? It's kinda crazy how la liga can't go more than 1 week without having a big issue. Having goal line technology and semi automated offside just makes the game run smoother by removing human error and the time it takes for them to input the information. It just dosen't make sense to have long breaks in the middle of games to wait for people to draw lines that isn't consistent and could be determined by a nervous hand not finding the right placement (or even worse not have enough information to draw the lines at all like in this case). It shouldn't be a matter of interpretion if somebody is offside or if a ball is over the line when you can remove the randomness entirely. The fact that it is not a big deal economicly for either the league or teams just makes it so much worse. Trying to save pennys to lose millions by making the league a worse product.
And this is how Tebass operates. Cheapskate shit league. Cannot say it was a goal or not without any conclusive evidence but this is why every top league in the world has GLT.
You know Barcelona and every other club except Bilbao and Madrid voted for Tebas to continue (with a pay hike). Only Madrid opposed Tebas's decision to not implement GLT because of the price.
Your club voted to renew Tebas and increase his salary.
So now is on barca? Jesus christ
No, but voting for a salary increase when he removed glt is the most moronic shit ever. Although them not voting for it wouldn't have made much of a difference because the other clubs love him.
So does the whole ball have to go in?
Yes
Yes it has to pass the goal line 100% but since the ball is a sphere certain angles without goal line technology it looks it touches the line still others look like it crossed it completely
Ok that makes sense on why it was inconclusive
Always have been
Lmfao Barca presidente voted for this crap. Now that it back fires on Barca they don’t blame him , they blame Madrid. Madrid is ur daddy and u certainly act like It.
How do they not have the best piece of technology for this sport…
Wait La Liga doesn’t have goal line technology, thought that was standard across all top leagues.
The president removed it because it was "too expensive" and gave himself a salary increase that all the clubs bar madrid and bilbao, approved.
How Spain doesn’t have GLT is boggling my brain
so embarrassing
No shit Sherlock There's no goal line technology that's the reason the decision was up to you With 36 cameras at the closed roof stadium
[удалено]
They did show EXACTLY that angle but Lunin’s body was blocking the view of the ball so you couldn’t actually see if it was in or not
Then I'm fucking stooopid
sports has that effect on people
Corrupt same as the prem
Lets say the goal did go in and its given. What are the chances the goal would stand? Seeing as cubarsi was standing infront of lunin obstructing him. I remember something like that given offside in barca vs villareal a while back.
I don't understand why this call is the one getting the majority of the attention from a point of view of ref criticism. We've all seen there is no decisive angle that clearly shows a goal or no goal. They're not going to overrule which ever on field call was made based off of the videos. It just shows that goal line tech is needed. And before someone comments, yes, I'm aware Laporta voted for Tebas' salary increase and the lack of goal line tech. And I'm not happy about that. That video and VAR still didn't show anything about the two worse decisions being Rudiger's foul on Fermin or Camvinga's tackle into Lamine. I'd really like to hear their explanations on why those weren't fouls and subsequent penalties, the Rudiger one was especially obvious. Neither had "the let everything go on a corner" excuse. They were open play dribbles, with Fermin's especially being a strong goal scoring chance.