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to think i was delusional enough to believe wed sign him for 6 million after his loan with us lol
tho granted, he wasnt as insanely good with us as he has been now
The first 2 games, after that he only missed 1 game in the premier league because of a suspention. He played 90 minutes in 34 out of 35 games he played in the prem
He started the first few games on the bench for 2 different reasons
First reason being during the summer Branthwaite was with the England youth team at the u21 Euros and because of that returned to the club late in the preseason window
Second reason being Dyche had never met Branthwaite until the day he returned to preseason following an extended break after the u21 Euros and didn’t know much about him player wise, person wise fitness wise or anything, so had to use the first few weeks to become accustomed to Jarrad
Branthwaite along with Garner returned to training on the 24th July, Branthwaite was playing first team game week 3 on the 26th August, having only worked with Dyche a month
At their ages
Branthwaite > Stones
Branthwaite a much much better defender at the same age, however, Stones a much better technical player
Stones ability to step up and play in the midfield, I don’t think Branthwaite would ever be able to replicate that
But Branthwaite is defending like a 10 year first team veteran
With Tarkowski and Pickford they look like they’ve been a trio for a decade, almost complete unison
It’s OK
He can pass a ball well, but he is an extremely safe passer of the ball, he’ll 9 times out of 10 play it backwards
If you want an idea of how he can play the ball out from the back I’d highly recommend going and finding a full clip of our second goal against Nottingham Forest in our home game
Im so conflicted because we so desperately need another technical defender like Licha. When he’s out it’s night and day because if we can’t pass through the lines we’re so easy to press
He's not technical in your new modern age centre back, he's just simple.
Primary focus lays with defending, he read's the game extremely well and knows when to push, when to drop, when to challenge and ultimately read the game to a high level
Which would be excellent alongside Licha, but I feel like with Lindelof and Maguire already here the priority should be a back up for Licha with that technical ability (not because I think either of them are better but because the fall off when Licha is out is so insanely massive).
Phenomenal for his age. He has literally everything and I have no doubts whatsoever he's going to be one of the best centre backs in the world and it won't even take him long. *If* he moves to the right team, which I don't think is Man United. Unless he uses it as a stepping stone to go to Real Madrid in a couple of years
You could tell both were / are destined for the top but Branthwaite is a much better defender than Stones at this age. Stones’ ability on the ball was a pisstake but Branthwaite’s got it all as a defender.
Wins his duels, is rapid, can defend out wide, physically imposing. He’s what you’d build in a lab if you were making a CB. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience which can lead to the odd rash challenge.
After the first half of the season I would've said Branthwaite is better at the same age, but Stones had a higher ceiling. Now I'd say Branthwaite is much better at the same age and at least the same ceiling, probably higher.
And I was the most devoted John Stones propagandist when he was here, I was in love with him even more than 99% of Everton fans
Ratcliffe keeps getting his mates to put stuff in shitrag papers saying that we need to sell him ASAP and that we'll take 40m for him.
It's not true. Everything from our reliable journos say we need to sell, but only because there's no transfer budget. Our PSR situation will be fine now and administration isn't on the cards. We've got no reason to sell below our asking price, which is 80m.
First off ofc you guys can demand what you like, the same goes for any club.
But the price of players is just nuts, 80m for a CB with one real year in the league.
Prices haven't moved much since they signed Maguire with his track record at the time and they got mocked for paying 80m for him, he was probably worth 60m at the time but Leicester had a strong position.
The price of players has absolutely gone up since Maguire went to United. Look at players like Lavia, or Caicedo who only had a year or 18 months playing properly in the league. They both went for 100m+. People are paying more and more for these extremely promising youngsters, and there is a lot of things going for Branthwaite. He's a fantastic player at 21 years old, he's English, he's left footed, very good on the ball, and 6 ft 5.
Maguire was an overpay, but 80m for Branthwaite is bang on in this market.
How many CBs have gone for more than him since?
Lavia didn't go for 100m but he did go for too much.
Caicedo was way ahead of Branthwaite, he was seen as a top midfielder in the league who had shown it and Brighton were in a strong position to hold on.
Also you could put them into the crazy category rather than saying it's a true sign of the market.
>How many CBs have gone for more than him since?
Just Gvardiol I think.
Chelsea signed Fofana for £75m though having only played 37 Premier League games and coming off the back of a season long injury.
Does this all really matter when they’re basically saying overpay or fuck off?
Who cares about what he’s actually worth, it’s up to the team selling him.
It's going to depend on lots of factors but I was more talking in general about prices and that it doesn't take much before an earth shattering price is now on him.
See here's the thing: Everton doesn't have to sell Branthwaite.
He's under contract for a long time, and he was a key part of our defense this year. Everton would be perfectly happy to hold onto Branthwaite and sell someone else instead, like Onana. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Everton has already decided to hold on to Branthwaite for another year unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse.
As I say you can ask for what you like it was more a statement on the current pricing.
Although how much you would get for Onana and how much he adds to your books is another matter.
Branthwaite will be a top defender in the league. Anyone who watched Everton this season could see how much quality he has. They're not looking to sell either, so of course they want a crazy price for him.
Will be, yet priced like he is and has year of proving it, that isn't on the crazy end of things to you.
If you have to pay out for a players potential now, it makes less sense to buy them.
60m is still pretty crazy.
It's not just now though. United paid £70m for Hojlund last season. Chelsea paid over £100m for Enzo. Liverpool paid £64m for Darwin. All of those were based mostly on potential.
Sure even 20 years ago United paid a fortune to sign Rooney from Everton based on just two seasons of experience, like Branthwaite has now.
Bringing up strikers isn't going to compare, due to the overall situation where there's a complete lack of options and the record for forwards is also much bigger.
Rooney had just stormed the Euros too, also I'm not sure if it was all upfront or add ons took the fee up.
Enzo would be part of the crazy fees point though, Chelsea again wanting to use the loophole and so decided to pay the release cos he had a good WC and they wanted to beat the competition too.
Well Fofana went for £75m at a similar age recently. I'm not disagreeing that it's a crazy fee, but Everton will naturally ask for such a fee for a top talent they don't want to lose.
Wouldnt say caicedo was "way ahead"
Branthwaite is seen as one of the top defenders in the league who has shown it at Everton, has a premium (rightly or wrongly) for being English, plus all his physical attributes and two footedness
He also recently signed a contract and we can sell Onana.
I think people would say he has looked good and has potential, I'm not sure how many would rank him as a top defender in the league unless it's within a large number. Even then it would be more on potential than body of work.
People can say what they want and it depends who you ask.
Any everton fan who watches him every week would say it isn't just potential, we had a top 4 defence and he's a huge reason why
> Lavia didn't go for 100m but he did go for too much.
Clubs that aren't in the champions league have a lot more money now. There is no need for them to give away their best players for nothing.
When dud 50/60m become nothing?
(I'm talking about the man who titles this thread, if you just mean him 40m was already pushing it and that's also not nothing.)
> When dud 50/60m become nothing?
When it became insufficient to replace the player, or help improve the team in place of doing so? Everton now have enough money, PSR stuff aside that they can keep Brannthwaite until they get an offer large enough that they feel it will help improve the team. Having leverage will do that.
It was other articles that came out today that quoted 40m, but they're all saying the same message of "we have to sell him as soon as possible so United have a chance". It just isn't true.
Onana is more likely to go than Branthwaite is.
Nothing reliable come out from United side saying we have any valuation on him so think it's more the media putting 2+2 together and lowballing versus Ratcliffe getting word out there that he wants to lowball for an Everton CB
Yeah that's what I said, not that he has contacts in the media that he can use to his advantage, but that he himself personally oversees all media in the country to brainwash everyone into being a United supporter.
This is another case of United being linked to a promising player. It's happened long long before Ratcliffe was in charge, there's no way you don't know this. The media uses United's name for clicks, not that Jim is phoning his mates getting them to print stories ffs
Yeah if a paper or a journo is struggling, they'll pick up a random name and link them with United. However you know that it's bollocks because it'll be one or two papers reporting on it and that'll be it, and then it'll blow over and they'll pick a new name the next day.
That doesn't usually happen when there's a lot of sources all saying the same thing. Especially when you get articles [like this](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-jarrad-branthwaite-everton-32903112) saying how plucky Ratcliffe is standing strong against completely unreasonable Everton. This is clearly a puff piece that has come from Ratcliffe briefing some of his mates to run this kind of story.
Don't take it personally, every owner does it. Our owner seems to have a direct line to Jim White so it's not a foreign concept to me. I think you need to accept that while some links to Man Utd are just clickbait, when there's this much smoke then there's definitely been a line put out by the ownership.
How exactly does this benefit United or SJR? Do you think because it’s in the papers Everton will turn around and go well guess we have to sell for 40m now because that paper said so?
If anything it’s worse for United as if they really want to go for him it will look like an overpay again because the public will believe he is available for 40 but United has to pay more due to how bad they are at negotiating even under new owners.
I really don’t see the benefit to United on this one could you explain your reasoning please?
Not saying it’s incorrect but why would this benefit Ratcliffe or United? Surely that just encourages other clubs to get involved and starts a bidding war if they think he’s going for that amount?
Yeah agreed all it would do is make him look bad at negotiating when Everton hold on for a higher price. That’s the last thing he wants. It’s not like Everton are going to turn around and go wow that paper said we have to sell for 40m so I guess even though we don’t need to sell and value him at 80m we have to take that 40m.
i would be pretty surprised if united landed him. he won’t be cheap at all, and by most accounts it seems like united won’t have a ton to spend this summer. considering how thin the squad is, it seems unlikely they would spend like 80 mil on a single defender but who knows
We certainly do but more as backup and doubt he wants to be a backup. Not to mention spaffing 50-60 million up the wall on a back-up when we need starters in other positions makes little sense.
Yeah we ain't selling for 50M-60M. Try 70M-80M
At least Everton better not fuck this up. Hes gonna be one of the best in the world and England's starting CB eventually
Martinez is great but he's also injured constantly, you need a really good defender to rotate with him esp with Europe so you don't get him injured again. Branthwaite will get plenty of minutes for you if Ten Hag rotates the team properly. Maguire doesn't seem injury-free either.
I would guess it's a similar situation to Dragusin for us, too good to be a back-up but with more games & CBs who get injured we need him to rotate and prevent injuries to VDV/Romero, you can't be relying on Lindelöf or someone else the moment you get an injury to your 2 CBs
Martinez has had three injuries, one of which was completely random against Sevilla, and the most recent was down to Coufal dropping onto his leg. It’s not like a Martial situation where he’s constantly getting little knocks that never seem to heal. I think Licha has just had a run of bad luck rather than being injury prone.
Martinez injuries that kept him out most of the year were both contact injuries. The last one was from someone falling over onto his knee. I'm not sure he's injury prone, was just unlucky this season.
The thing is though Dragusin didn't cost 60 million and neither is he English. So a lot less pressure on him and on the club/manager to constantly play him.
Brathwaite is a very good player but buying him would mean cutting costs in some other areas of the pitch and I don't think that helps us in the grand scheme of things. We need at least 2 defenders, 2 midfielders, at least 1 winger and a striker. That's a lot of players and I don't think even half of that will be possible if we go and pay a premium for someone like Branthwaite who will be used in a rotational capacity.
I agree with you in general but the problem is we never seem to sign players for cheap anyways so £60-70mil doesn't even sound that crazy anymore.
Our last two summers of signings have been Hojlund £70m, Onana £45m, Mount £55m, Antony £85m, Casemiro £70m, Martinez £50m, Eriksen free, Malacia £14m.
Malacia and Eriksen aside it seems like we have a floor for our first team signings somewhere around £45m. I can't even imagine us signing promising players for less than that these days so even if we did skip over Branthwaite to save money for other signings it would likely only get us 2 players rather than just him, if that. I could see us signing a random CB for £45m instead of him which saves us about £25m and we're hardly going to do anything significant with that.
> the problem is we never seem to sign players for cheap anyways so £60-70mil doesn't even sound that crazy anymore.
I'm hoping that'll change under the new leadership. Otherwise what's the point.
And as for our signings, every single one has been an overpay and if we continue paying these prices then we'd continue to overpay. Things have to change and our tendency to overpay should be first.
So buying Branthwaite on a premium just because he's our first choice is stupid if you ask me and would harm our investment in other areas.
I'm pretty certain that it will. Everton will gladly take 50m plus despite what their fans on here say, and it will probably happen by the end of June for the PSR boost. They obviously need cash and Dyche can survive without him
United seem the front runners for him and I can't really see any of the other big 6 challenging this summer. Only Liverpool is looking for a CB as a priority but that obviously won't happen. Arsenal and City need other positions first, and Chelsea/Spurs would presumably be behind United in his preference.
Knew one of you would come for me.
If you think they're holding out for 80m when they need a quick sale you're clueless, but Everton fans do tend to live in Dreamland. Ultimately, Everton has to sell this summer unless the takeover goes through, Dyche himself has said that. They need cash as it seems as though they are pretty close to insolvency, the auditors won't sign off as a going concern, and Moshiri has pulled the plug completely.
Branthwhaite is by far the most attractive player, whilst also relatively replaceable by Keane, Godfrey and Tarkowski plus any new signings. Dyche could sign Ben Mee to replace him and he will still keep you up. Onana could get interest and is replaceable, but there's no rumours and I can't see anyone offering more than 20m soon.
Only hope youve got to get that much for him is that you get rid of Simms, Onana or some other players first, so you can hold out for the Branthwhaite money. But no one is paying £80m for him this summer, so you'll be waiting. United obviously think they can get him on a quick sale for around 60m and if they come with that bid before the end of June I'm pretty sure he'll go.
Everton journos are obviously getting fed the "nah of course we don't need to sell" to give the club some leverage but come 30th June we'll see who's gone.
Honestly I've never known a fan base so far detached from reality. You'll be booing him in 12 months.
Glad a Liverpool fan knows our finances better than us. There's a lot of laughable stuff in here but no one offering more than 20m for onana might be the worst.
Don't get me wrong I think he's worth 40m tbh but there's hardly people lining up to buy him in the next month.
And tbh the way you guys stanned for that stadium you clearly can't afford, I think anyone can understand your finances better than you lot.
We've literally had bayern, united, spurs, arsenal, barca, Chelsea all linked with him. And I'd imagine it would be more than 40. We've also had reports our finances aren't as bad as everyone is making out, you're just making assumptions
I really really really hope Jarrad doesn’t move to Man U
He’s a genuine generational talent he should be going to the very best clubs, not a club where players careers take a complete nose dive
He’d be doomed
I've watched every one of our games this season, he could definitely make it to the very top.
he plays like he's a veteran of ten years. so assured and self confident. but not just in the "pass it around the back" sense, he's got a fucking claw machine of a tackle. he makes these tackles and you just think, you had no right at all to win that so cleanly. other defenders don't back themselves to win the ball like he does. he goes into tackles that would normally have you wincing because its a guaranteed foul, but he wins the ball and doesn't even touch the man. its mental.
learned to put his body on the line and make brilliant blocks from tarkowski as well.
I love him and would be gutted to see him go this season. he's brilliant
oh and he's got a goal or two in him
Real Madrid, probably. Maybe Bayern if they want someone.
And if Branthwaite isn't ready for that jump, we'd be happy to hold onto him for another year. A good Euros would be good for Branthwaite's stock.
I mean ideally I’d like to see him go straight to a title challenger, which I don’t think would be the case just now
One more season at Everton I reckon he would be
Real Madrid could do with a centre back, Nacho getting on, Militao not really playing well since return
Rudiger Branthwaite partnership would go hard
Fuck no lmao
I would be very happy with a solid top 4 and a good cup run. Our squad is in a much better position than it was when Klopp first came in, or when other teams have lost their top managers, so I do think we can be good but competing for the league year one would be an insane expectation.
Cheers. It'll be an interesting season to see how things change. Lucky for you, your owners seem willing to give managers a chance to bed in rather than this scorched earth mentality everyone else is on
Unless we have an amazing transfer window and players like Jota stay healthy and Diaz/Nunez get some scoring boots again no way. Top 4 and cup runs why not?
Either way, Martinez is clear of Maguire. I'd say he's at least top 4 CBs in the PL. I hope he gets to show that next season.
His issue was that after coming back from injury someone literally landed on his knee with their full weight and kept him out almost the full season. I don't think he's injury prone. He's just been unlucky with contact injuries.
I wouldn't say at least top 4, I'm having gabriel, saliba, van dijk and stones ahead of him. And obviously I'd have branthwaite
He's had limited game time to show his ability so maybe if he plays more I'd be more convinced
Yeah but 99% of Man United fans are plastic glory hunters that don’t actual watch football and base their knowledge on eafc ratings
The opinion of a Man United fan in a discussion in football is like akin to shitting in your hands and clapping
Absolutely fucking pointless and a complete mess
Saying 99% of United’s fanbase are plastic glory hunters is just wrong and saying that 99% of them don’t actually watch football is delusional.
Are you like 5 years old?
You're literally England's 2nd most successful club seperated by one trophy and have been the most dominant team in PL history claiming 13 titles of a possible 32
If you're not from Manchester or the surrounding area's you're a glory hunter. You've chose to support that team because of their success.
I started supporting United in 2014 and have seen almost nothing but mediocrity tbh
I'll keep supporting though because at this point I've invested too much emotion into this club
So you started supporting Man United at the end of their domination of the league
And you're claming you're not a glory hunter because the following years werent as successful.... Are you for real?
I started following United in 2014 before he left that summer.
Edit: My main point was that I would've probably supported Madrid by the time Ole left if I was a glory hunter. At that point we hadn't won a trophy in 5 years.
3 players who have been hit and miss throughout the season is not enough to try and convince the rest of the footballing world that in recent years players transfers to Man United have seen their career take a massive dive
An FA cup has papered over the cracks of the fact your squad has massively declined in one year
Hit and miss? Name 3 players the same ages that have had a better season?
You can count them on one hand. For their ages those 3 have had one of the best seasons in Europe, weird to say they've been hit and miss.
I agree though Man U hasn't been a good place for players to go, but most of those cases seem down to the players themselves.
Most players who've come to United the last 5 years and wanted to improve, have done so.
Jarrad Branthwaite
Adam Wharton
Milos Kerkez
Rico Lewis
Saka
Gusto
Murillo
Olise
Caicedo
Martinelli
Ait-Nouri
Curtis Jones
Harvey Elliot
Just a few names who have been 19-21 playing consistently for their clubs ther last few seasons that have been more consistent for their teams in the last couple of seasons, there are probably more but they're the ones I can think off on the top of my head
They’ve all been equal or better
You’re delusional to think otherwise or you’re that mad that I’ve listed a good number of players to disprove your argument that you’re desperately trying to discredit them
All those players have been better than Garnacho and Mainoo
Things changing?
You’ve just finished 8th, you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago and an FA Cup win has pushed all those realities to the back of your heads for some odd reason
Man United have been unbelievably shit this season and is gonna take multiple years to rebuild
Which will now take even longer after splashing like 600m quid on Sancho, Varane, Antony, Casemiro, Martinez, Mount, Onana, Hojlund
If it weren’t for Chelsea, Man U would be getting an unreal amount of stick
I am honestly confident that we will be stronger next season. Every that can go wrong has go wrong for us this season. It won't ve the case next season.
I understand your confidence, doesn’t make it true
ETH will get sacked at some point next season when it’s obvious nothing has changed after the FA cup win
Our entire club's structure has been changing over the last 5 months. Loads of execs were fired and we're bringing in a new CEO, DOF, and technical director to help run the club.
For better or worse, we are for sure going to see changes in how we're run. If you think otherwise, you're dumb.
Your entrie clubs structure might change, but that doesn't negate the fact that these last few years players Man United have signed have seen their career nose dive
Only 2 less wins than Villa this season. 3rd the season before.
United are not far from being a consistent top team.
If they have even half the amount on injuries as this season, along with one or two good buys. I'd be very surprised to see them finish outside of top 4 next season.
Martinez, Onana, Hojlund all look very good players. Mount is proven quality.
Sancho, Varane, Casemiro all look on the way out this summer.
Antony was a dud, that transfer should be investigated.
Also, "you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago". Says who? Zero evidence of this. 1 article by a Chelsea journalist (who has since back tracked on what he wrote) that no other journalist could back up or confirm and that wasn't touched by any reputible source.
You read the Sun like it's AP news don't you?
>Only 2 less wins than Villa this season
Also 4 more losses
>United are not far from being a consistent top team.
What? Man United are from consistent. Scraped a tonne of 1 goal wins against the likes of Luton twice, Fulham, Wolves twice etc jut dumb luck most of the time
>Martinez, Onana, Hojlund all look very good players.
Martinez injury prone, Onana has been shaky throughout the season, Hojlund has been poor despite small purple patch and lack of service
>Mount is proven quality.
Nah, not for me, not a fan tbh
>Sancho, Varane, Casemiro all look on the way out this summer.
Sancho will be a massive loss, Varane gone for nothing, Casemiro be another big loss
>Antony was a dud, that transfer should be investigated.
That was your manager's strongest request and a massive summer long chanse
>Also, "you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago". Says who?
Literally. Your fan base.
United have new owners. Did you not see that?
I remember what Liverpool was like before FSG.
You've got your head in the clouds if you think new ownership of the biggest team in the league wouldn't lead to change.
Hojlund cost £70m and delivered about the minimum you'd expect for someone in that price range.
Garnacho has been decent, but people seem to forget that he had 1 goal / 1 assist in his first 18 league games this season, and 2 goals / 1 assist in his final 13 league games. The dire performances of Rashford and Antony helped him a lot.
Mainoo looks the business, but that's more a reflection of United's youth academy than it is the first team developing players.
Name 3 players the same ages that have had a better season?
You can count them on one hand.
For their ages those 3 have had one of the best seasons in Europe, weird to try play that down. There's not a team on the planet that wouldn't be delighted to have those players.
In the league alone, Palmer, Udogie, Elliott, Sarr, Branthwaite. Since you're including Europe, we can include players like Bellingham, Yamal, Wirtz, Xavi Simons, Yoro, etc.
I didn't say they're bad players or anything close to that. They were three of United's better players, but the bar was hardly very high. All three would still be bench options in any top club for now until they develop a bit more.
“Garnacho is 20 in a few weeks after the full season where he was 19.”
‘I’m not going to even address Mainoo’.
And naming Sarr and Elliott as better, regardless of them being 2 years older, is a joke.
Well your argument was that all three had some of the best seasons in Europe for their age. Are you changing that to just Mainoo now?
I named players in the age range of the three players you listed. Most of those I mentioned were 20 at some point in the season, and some were even younger. I don't see your problem.
>And naming Sarr and Elliott as better, regardless of them being 2 years older, is a joke.
Sarr had a very good season for a Spurs and was a consistent starter. At a minimum, he had as good a season as those three players. Elliott was just flat-out better and more impactful for a better team, even with more limited starts.
This as a transfer makes no sense he’s currently not better than Martinez and both are left footers and this is a sizeable amount despite our reported low budget when you could get a starting rcb and a back up lcb for the same amount as this
Last season he missed more games than he did in his entire career if it continues sure but what’s the point in spending a sizeable amount of your budget on a position that you don’t need to replace. I get your an Everton fan and you have to back your player but assuming both are available he doesn’t start unless one plays on the right which isn’t ideal as one is playing not on there preferred side. Make no mistake he is very talented and has a very high potential and he is shiny new and English so will be preferred by the media but this is only his second season starting consistent minutes for a team that aren’t playing as many games a season so who knows long term. It’s 70 million on a player that is playing a position that is not in need of a starting replacement on a budget with ffp very much a problem it wouldn’t be a bad signing just not the most sensible at this moment in time however if ffp wasn’t a problem and it didn’t stop other transfers I would love for us to sign him
I can hand on heart say I do not rate Martinez, I have said multiple times on this subreddit I do not rate him, I think he’s insanely overrated by the Man United fan base
You’re chastising United fans higher in the thread for shitty opinions, calling them plastics who don’t watch football, and then you say this. Give over.
Because I don’t personally rate a player because they’re not my kind of centre back?
Ok mate
I think he is over rated, he’s a good defender but you act like he’s the second coming of the messiah
Martinez couldn’t lace the boots of some of the Man United centre backs I grew up watching and I swear none of you talked about Vidic, Ferdinand etc like you talk about Martinez
If it weren’t for ETH, he’d still be plying his trade with Ajax
You’re literally raving about a guy who had a good season in the same league Martinez was good in, and then a good season in the same league Martinez had a good season in, but one is amazing and one is overrated (and only Eredivisie quality, apparently).
You also can’t just put words in my mouth. Sure, maybe some people think he’s the second coming of Christ, I sure as shit don’t. I think he is a _very_ good centre, back, though. Yes City had an off day, but it is also not a coincidence that we neutered their attack with Licha back in the lineup.
If you think he couldn’t lace the boots of some of those others you’re just an idiot, which you’ve kind of already exemplified. You have the hindsight of looking at what Ferdinand and Vidic became. We signed Vidic at 25 and Rio at 23. We signed Martinez at 24.
Ferdinand had already had time at Leeds to establish himself as one of the best centre-backs in the league, and Vidic took about 1-2 seasons to reach that level as well. Martinez is on a similar trajectory and it’s obvious. I’m not saying he _will_ reach their heights, but in his first season he was _clearly_ one of the best in the league and he’s been injured for his second season.
You’re just being a weapon. Stop being a weapon.
I’m literally raving about a generational talent. You do not understand how good this kid is.
He anchored a team that has battled relegation 3 of the last 3 seasons and anchored the defence to a CL level standard.
I don’t rate Martinez and never will
I genuinely believe he will be replaced sooner rather than later
Deal with it
You said I’m raving about a kid playing one season, when I’m not, I’m raving about a generational talent
Martinez played a full season in the PL, 5 years Branthwaites senior
It's fine for you to think a player is overrated but United fans thinking Branthwaite is a bit overrated makes you want to shit in your hands. The hypocrisy is the point he's making.
And he only doubled down on the hypocrisy.
‘If it weren’t for ten Hag he’d still be playing in the Netherlands.’
_WHERE THE FUCK DID BRANTHWAITE MAKE HIS NAME?_
Right… You do know Branthwaite was already and Everton player before his loan to the Eredivise?
You do know Branthwaite had already played for Everton and that majority of Everton fans wanted Branthwaite to play for Everton first team before his loan to PSV
Martinez would still be at Ajax if not for ETH just like Antony
Of course I know he was an Everton player, that doesn’t make a lick of difference to my point?
He had played 9 games worth of minutes for the club across three seasons, went on loan to PSV and made a name for himself.
That’s the point. You’re being a hypocrite.
Well I'm not a United fan but right now I'd start Lisandro over him. Also, spending near the world transfer record for a defender that's an English CB that has one good PL season in a lower half of the table team that's defensively very well drilled would understandably cause concerns about it being another Maguire situation. And that's not shade because Maguire is still an excellent defender in the right system. Reasonable concerns in my eyes.
Then you haven’t seen Branthwaite play enough then
It’s a transfer fit befitting of a generational talent, like that of when we sold Stones
Branthwaite turned a terrible defence, one of the worst, into a genuine CL level defence
We are defensively well drilled because we have Branthwaite in the team
If you put Keane or Godfrey there instead, we’re relegated
Lol, you just outed yurself as a complete moron mate. World cup winner Martinez is obviously absolutely quality, probably one of the best CB's with the ball at his feet in the world.
It's one thing thinking he might not fit a certian style or you prefer a diffrent type of player, but even me nan would be able to see how quality he is after 5 mins of watching. Saying you don't rate him is admitting you've zero idea how football works.
>World cup winner Martinez is obviously absolutely quality
Ahh the classic world cup winner Martinez shout. He started two games ffs.
>probably one of the best CB's with the ball at his feet in the world.
I am not remotely arsed about centre backs with their ability with the ball at their feet, especially when it's their best trait and it's why I do not rate Martinez. You can pass it till your hearts content but if you're a centre back and you're on the lower end of duels won and aerials won, then to me, you're just not it
Martinez last season had a defensive duel success of 70%
Branthwaite this is season has a success rate of 96%
Martinez had an aerial% success rate of 13% last season
Branthwaite this season, 69%
Like I couldn't give a shit about passing
>but even me nan would be able to see how quality he is after 5 mins of watching.
So then you'd be seeing Martinez be on the lower success rate of defensive actions in the league, but it's ok, he can pass a ball.
>Saying you don't rate him is admitting you've zero idea how football works.
Me saying I don't rate him is because I know how football works. I know a great defence is built on great defenders. That's why the likes of Liverpool, Man City and even Arsenal to a degree have had such success, they have defencers who defend resolutely.
I think there’s probably a good argument that he’s better than Martinez now, you can never tell how players are going to return from injury.
He’s also a more natural “pure” CB vs Martinez who can play multiple positions.
Depends on who is managing you next year too, Branthwaite is a really good front foot defender if you want to dominate the game more and rely less on counter attacks
I mean he was our best defender against Brighton and City so it’s looking good that he’s returning to the same level he was at and I think it’s quite the opposite if you want to control games Martinez passing makes him superior to keep possession and branthwaites physicality is probably better if you want to defend for larger parts of the game. I do believe Martinez at this moment in time is the superior defender overall but that’s not to say in a couple of years branthwaite won’t be there
Let’s hope not, I have no particular dislike for Man U, but I don’t want to see any young English talent going there right now. They used to be a team that built talent, now it feels like it is where talent stalls and dies
You say that but Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund have had pretty good seasons and they're all very young.
Certain signings have stalled ala Sancho, Anthony but I'd argue they were questionable signings to begin with.
even saying Hojlund hasn't is odd
he scored more league goals in a better league with very little service and was one of the top scorers in the UCL without playing a single knockout game
There's not much question those 3 have made progress to me. You clearly believe "player's careers stall at United" so you're choosing to not believe any evidence that challenges that. If you're getting U21 players into your first 11 and they're playing well at premier league level then they're going to progress.
With Kobbie it is still early, he's just turned 19 but he's in the England squad and looks quite likely to start in the Euros. 12 months ago no one had even heard of him. If that isn't fast progress and good integration for a young English player than what is? He got MOTM in the FA Cup final, scored the winner and got MOTM in his England debut too. He pretty much looks one of the most promising young players in the world.
Garnacho is only 19. He's played a lot this season (probably too much) but pretty much been our best winger and scored some important goals. He's definitely made a ton of progress since his debut.
Rasmus is looking like a decent signing. He's a bit streaky with scoring, but after the injuries and drought he had at the beginning he's been much better in the second half of the season.
Problem is, none of the rest of the big English clubs desperately need him enough to pay 80m for him. Maybe Chelsea? The English tax often puts other big clubs from buying talents like this given the risk. Wonder if Bayern would take a punt on him
This is what I think happened in his conversation with Coady. I don't think it was necessarily as simple as Coady saying he should stay at Everton for a year, but Man United were the main team in for him so Coady said wait another year for a better offer from a better team
From what I have seen this season, he's very strong and aggressive on the ball. Tackling is very good. Decent passer of the ball and superb in the air.
Would love him here, but the issue is that he might play as a second fiddle to Martinez if we keep EtH.
I think Brainthwaite being both footed helps in that he can start as a RCB next to Martinez and also fill in on the left when Martinez is injured. Meaning the backup cb you buy can be from the larger, more affordable pool of right footed cbs.
Martinez played 648 league minutes this season
In my biased opinion he's also better than him
Hopefully he doesn't go there and this doesn't matter though
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Yeah, them and the rest of the world.
to think i was delusional enough to believe wed sign him for 6 million after his loan with us lol tho granted, he wasnt as insanely good with us as he has been now
I mean we all did vehemently tell you that wasn’t going to happen We all knew Branthwaite was coming in and going to be a starter this season
Starter? Didn't he start the season on the bench?
The first 2 games, after that he only missed 1 game in the premier league because of a suspention. He played 90 minutes in 34 out of 35 games he played in the prem
He started the first few games on the bench for 2 different reasons First reason being during the summer Branthwaite was with the England youth team at the u21 Euros and because of that returned to the club late in the preseason window Second reason being Dyche had never met Branthwaite until the day he returned to preseason following an extended break after the u21 Euros and didn’t know much about him player wise, person wise fitness wise or anything, so had to use the first few weeks to become accustomed to Jarrad Branthwaite along with Garner returned to training on the 24th July, Branthwaite was playing first team game week 3 on the 26th August, having only worked with Dyche a month
How has Garner been for you guys?
Ok, hit and miss I think our midfield doesn't work together, especially a Garner Onana partnership, I hate it
Do Everton fans rate him higher than a young John Stones?
At their ages Branthwaite > Stones Branthwaite a much much better defender at the same age, however, Stones a much better technical player Stones ability to step up and play in the midfield, I don’t think Branthwaite would ever be able to replicate that But Branthwaite is defending like a 10 year first team veteran With Tarkowski and Pickford they look like they’ve been a trio for a decade, almost complete unison
How's Branthwaite's ability on the ball in general?
It’s OK He can pass a ball well, but he is an extremely safe passer of the ball, he’ll 9 times out of 10 play it backwards If you want an idea of how he can play the ball out from the back I’d highly recommend going and finding a full clip of our second goal against Nottingham Forest in our home game
Im so conflicted because we so desperately need another technical defender like Licha. When he’s out it’s night and day because if we can’t pass through the lines we’re so easy to press
He's not technical in your new modern age centre back, he's just simple. Primary focus lays with defending, he read's the game extremely well and knows when to push, when to drop, when to challenge and ultimately read the game to a high level
Which would be excellent alongside Licha, but I feel like with Lindelof and Maguire already here the priority should be a back up for Licha with that technical ability (not because I think either of them are better but because the fall off when Licha is out is so insanely massive).
Phenomenal for his age. He has literally everything and I have no doubts whatsoever he's going to be one of the best centre backs in the world and it won't even take him long. *If* he moves to the right team, which I don't think is Man United. Unless he uses it as a stepping stone to go to Real Madrid in a couple of years
You could tell both were / are destined for the top but Branthwaite is a much better defender than Stones at this age. Stones’ ability on the ball was a pisstake but Branthwaite’s got it all as a defender. Wins his duels, is rapid, can defend out wide, physically imposing. He’s what you’d build in a lab if you were making a CB. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience which can lead to the odd rash challenge.
After the first half of the season I would've said Branthwaite is better at the same age, but Stones had a higher ceiling. Now I'd say Branthwaite is much better at the same age and at least the same ceiling, probably higher. And I was the most devoted John Stones propagandist when he was here, I was in love with him even more than 99% of Everton fans
Very similar I'd say in terms of talent. They're very different players though. He's going to be world class. I've got no doubt about that.
Absolutely miles better than a young Stones.
Yep.
A lot higher in my opinion. Just as good on the ball but a much better defender as well.
Ratcliffe keeps getting his mates to put stuff in shitrag papers saying that we need to sell him ASAP and that we'll take 40m for him. It's not true. Everything from our reliable journos say we need to sell, but only because there's no transfer budget. Our PSR situation will be fine now and administration isn't on the cards. We've got no reason to sell below our asking price, which is 80m.
First off ofc you guys can demand what you like, the same goes for any club. But the price of players is just nuts, 80m for a CB with one real year in the league. Prices haven't moved much since they signed Maguire with his track record at the time and they got mocked for paying 80m for him, he was probably worth 60m at the time but Leicester had a strong position.
The price of players has absolutely gone up since Maguire went to United. Look at players like Lavia, or Caicedo who only had a year or 18 months playing properly in the league. They both went for 100m+. People are paying more and more for these extremely promising youngsters, and there is a lot of things going for Branthwaite. He's a fantastic player at 21 years old, he's English, he's left footed, very good on the ball, and 6 ft 5. Maguire was an overpay, but 80m for Branthwaite is bang on in this market.
How many CBs have gone for more than him since? Lavia didn't go for 100m but he did go for too much. Caicedo was way ahead of Branthwaite, he was seen as a top midfielder in the league who had shown it and Brighton were in a strong position to hold on. Also you could put them into the crazy category rather than saying it's a true sign of the market.
>How many CBs have gone for more than him since? Just Gvardiol I think. Chelsea signed Fofana for £75m though having only played 37 Premier League games and coming off the back of a season long injury.
I think maybe Chelsea need to be put to one side they seemed to just what to go nuts and that season they loved abusing that loophole.
Does this all really matter when they’re basically saying overpay or fuck off? Who cares about what he’s actually worth, it’s up to the team selling him.
It's going to depend on lots of factors but I was more talking in general about prices and that it doesn't take much before an earth shattering price is now on him.
Depends on if the player downs tools or not
See here's the thing: Everton doesn't have to sell Branthwaite. He's under contract for a long time, and he was a key part of our defense this year. Everton would be perfectly happy to hold onto Branthwaite and sell someone else instead, like Onana. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Everton has already decided to hold on to Branthwaite for another year unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse.
As I say you can ask for what you like it was more a statement on the current pricing. Although how much you would get for Onana and how much he adds to your books is another matter.
Branthwaite will be a top defender in the league. Anyone who watched Everton this season could see how much quality he has. They're not looking to sell either, so of course they want a crazy price for him.
Will be, yet priced like he is and has year of proving it, that isn't on the crazy end of things to you. If you have to pay out for a players potential now, it makes less sense to buy them. 60m is still pretty crazy.
It's not just now though. United paid £70m for Hojlund last season. Chelsea paid over £100m for Enzo. Liverpool paid £64m for Darwin. All of those were based mostly on potential. Sure even 20 years ago United paid a fortune to sign Rooney from Everton based on just two seasons of experience, like Branthwaite has now.
Bringing up strikers isn't going to compare, due to the overall situation where there's a complete lack of options and the record for forwards is also much bigger. Rooney had just stormed the Euros too, also I'm not sure if it was all upfront or add ons took the fee up. Enzo would be part of the crazy fees point though, Chelsea again wanting to use the loophole and so decided to pay the release cos he had a good WC and they wanted to beat the competition too.
Well Fofana went for £75m at a similar age recently. I'm not disagreeing that it's a crazy fee, but Everton will naturally ask for such a fee for a top talent they don't want to lose.
Indeed, I think that thread will be full of people calling it crazy too, Chelsea also seemed to go mad again cos of the loophole.
Wouldnt say caicedo was "way ahead" Branthwaite is seen as one of the top defenders in the league who has shown it at Everton, has a premium (rightly or wrongly) for being English, plus all his physical attributes and two footedness He also recently signed a contract and we can sell Onana.
I think people would say he has looked good and has potential, I'm not sure how many would rank him as a top defender in the league unless it's within a large number. Even then it would be more on potential than body of work.
People can say what they want and it depends who you ask. Any everton fan who watches him every week would say it isn't just potential, we had a top 4 defence and he's a huge reason why
So he goes to United and you never no doubt that he would be a top 3 CB in the league for the next 10 years or so?
No because united have a habit of absolutely torpedoeing good players careers
> Lavia didn't go for 100m but he did go for too much. Clubs that aren't in the champions league have a lot more money now. There is no need for them to give away their best players for nothing.
When dud 50/60m become nothing? (I'm talking about the man who titles this thread, if you just mean him 40m was already pushing it and that's also not nothing.)
> When dud 50/60m become nothing? When it became insufficient to replace the player, or help improve the team in place of doing so? Everton now have enough money, PSR stuff aside that they can keep Brannthwaite until they get an offer large enough that they feel it will help improve the team. Having leverage will do that.
What put Caicedo “way ahead” of Branthwaite?
The onfield displays, he was looking pretty big time.
Huh? Where did you get 100 m+ for lavia? He went for 53 mil
Lavia was like 50m or something
The article says you value him at 60-70m not sure where you're getting 40 from
It's also purely speculation, other dead sources are saying 80, some saying 55
It was other articles that came out today that quoted 40m, but they're all saying the same message of "we have to sell him as soon as possible so United have a chance". It just isn't true. Onana is more likely to go than Branthwaite is.
Nothing reliable come out from United side saying we have any valuation on him so think it's more the media putting 2+2 together and lowballing versus Ratcliffe getting word out there that he wants to lowball for an Everton CB
Yeah Ratcliffe controls the media, ffs listen to yourself
Yeah that's what I said, not that he has contacts in the media that he can use to his advantage, but that he himself personally oversees all media in the country to brainwash everyone into being a United supporter.
This is another case of United being linked to a promising player. It's happened long long before Ratcliffe was in charge, there's no way you don't know this. The media uses United's name for clicks, not that Jim is phoning his mates getting them to print stories ffs
Yeah if a paper or a journo is struggling, they'll pick up a random name and link them with United. However you know that it's bollocks because it'll be one or two papers reporting on it and that'll be it, and then it'll blow over and they'll pick a new name the next day. That doesn't usually happen when there's a lot of sources all saying the same thing. Especially when you get articles [like this](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-jarrad-branthwaite-everton-32903112) saying how plucky Ratcliffe is standing strong against completely unreasonable Everton. This is clearly a puff piece that has come from Ratcliffe briefing some of his mates to run this kind of story. Don't take it personally, every owner does it. Our owner seems to have a direct line to Jim White so it's not a foreign concept to me. I think you need to accept that while some links to Man Utd are just clickbait, when there's this much smoke then there's definitely been a line put out by the ownership.
Sky isn't one of our main contacts. When you see reports from Simon Stone, James Ducker, or Ornstein is when you know our club is briefing.
How exactly does this benefit United or SJR? Do you think because it’s in the papers Everton will turn around and go well guess we have to sell for 40m now because that paper said so? If anything it’s worse for United as if they really want to go for him it will look like an overpay again because the public will believe he is available for 40 but United has to pay more due to how bad they are at negotiating even under new owners. I really don’t see the benefit to United on this one could you explain your reasoning please?
Not saying it’s incorrect but why would this benefit Ratcliffe or United? Surely that just encourages other clubs to get involved and starts a bidding war if they think he’s going for that amount?
Yeah agreed all it would do is make him look bad at negotiating when Everton hold on for a higher price. That’s the last thing he wants. It’s not like Everton are going to turn around and go wow that paper said we have to sell for 40m so I guess even though we don’t need to sell and value him at 80m we have to take that 40m.
i would be pretty surprised if united landed him. he won’t be cheap at all, and by most accounts it seems like united won’t have a ton to spend this summer. considering how thin the squad is, it seems unlikely they would spend like 80 mil on a single defender but who knows
We really need another left footer in the centre of defence, I really hope this happens
We certainly do but more as backup and doubt he wants to be a backup. Not to mention spaffing 50-60 million up the wall on a back-up when we need starters in other positions makes little sense.
Yeah we ain't selling for 50M-60M. Try 70M-80M At least Everton better not fuck this up. Hes gonna be one of the best in the world and England's starting CB eventually
Whatever. It'll be a big number either way.
RemindMe! -92 days
Martinez is great but he's also injured constantly, you need a really good defender to rotate with him esp with Europe so you don't get him injured again. Branthwaite will get plenty of minutes for you if Ten Hag rotates the team properly. Maguire doesn't seem injury-free either. I would guess it's a similar situation to Dragusin for us, too good to be a back-up but with more games & CBs who get injured we need him to rotate and prevent injuries to VDV/Romero, you can't be relying on Lindelöf or someone else the moment you get an injury to your 2 CBs
Martinez has had three injuries, one of which was completely random against Sevilla, and the most recent was down to Coufal dropping onto his leg. It’s not like a Martial situation where he’s constantly getting little knocks that never seem to heal. I think Licha has just had a run of bad luck rather than being injury prone.
Martinez injuries that kept him out most of the year were both contact injuries. The last one was from someone falling over onto his knee. I'm not sure he's injury prone, was just unlucky this season.
The thing is though Dragusin didn't cost 60 million and neither is he English. So a lot less pressure on him and on the club/manager to constantly play him. Brathwaite is a very good player but buying him would mean cutting costs in some other areas of the pitch and I don't think that helps us in the grand scheme of things. We need at least 2 defenders, 2 midfielders, at least 1 winger and a striker. That's a lot of players and I don't think even half of that will be possible if we go and pay a premium for someone like Branthwaite who will be used in a rotational capacity.
I agree with you in general but the problem is we never seem to sign players for cheap anyways so £60-70mil doesn't even sound that crazy anymore. Our last two summers of signings have been Hojlund £70m, Onana £45m, Mount £55m, Antony £85m, Casemiro £70m, Martinez £50m, Eriksen free, Malacia £14m. Malacia and Eriksen aside it seems like we have a floor for our first team signings somewhere around £45m. I can't even imagine us signing promising players for less than that these days so even if we did skip over Branthwaite to save money for other signings it would likely only get us 2 players rather than just him, if that. I could see us signing a random CB for £45m instead of him which saves us about £25m and we're hardly going to do anything significant with that.
> the problem is we never seem to sign players for cheap anyways so £60-70mil doesn't even sound that crazy anymore. I'm hoping that'll change under the new leadership. Otherwise what's the point. And as for our signings, every single one has been an overpay and if we continue paying these prices then we'd continue to overpay. Things have to change and our tendency to overpay should be first. So buying Branthwaite on a premium just because he's our first choice is stupid if you ask me and would harm our investment in other areas.
I'm pretty certain that it will. Everton will gladly take 50m plus despite what their fans on here say, and it will probably happen by the end of June for the PSR boost. They obviously need cash and Dyche can survive without him United seem the front runners for him and I can't really see any of the other big 6 challenging this summer. Only Liverpool is looking for a CB as a priority but that obviously won't happen. Arsenal and City need other positions first, and Chelsea/Spurs would presumably be behind United in his preference.
By plus you mean another 30m added onto that 50m then sure. Everything you just said is just shite made up by yourself.
Lol
Can’t tell if you’re laughing at yourself or if you’re that fucking dumb and can’t read your own comment.
Knew one of you would come for me. If you think they're holding out for 80m when they need a quick sale you're clueless, but Everton fans do tend to live in Dreamland. Ultimately, Everton has to sell this summer unless the takeover goes through, Dyche himself has said that. They need cash as it seems as though they are pretty close to insolvency, the auditors won't sign off as a going concern, and Moshiri has pulled the plug completely. Branthwhaite is by far the most attractive player, whilst also relatively replaceable by Keane, Godfrey and Tarkowski plus any new signings. Dyche could sign Ben Mee to replace him and he will still keep you up. Onana could get interest and is replaceable, but there's no rumours and I can't see anyone offering more than 20m soon. Only hope youve got to get that much for him is that you get rid of Simms, Onana or some other players first, so you can hold out for the Branthwhaite money. But no one is paying £80m for him this summer, so you'll be waiting. United obviously think they can get him on a quick sale for around 60m and if they come with that bid before the end of June I'm pretty sure he'll go. Everton journos are obviously getting fed the "nah of course we don't need to sell" to give the club some leverage but come 30th June we'll see who's gone. Honestly I've never known a fan base so far detached from reality. You'll be booing him in 12 months.
Glad a Liverpool fan knows our finances better than us. There's a lot of laughable stuff in here but no one offering more than 20m for onana might be the worst.
Don't get me wrong I think he's worth 40m tbh but there's hardly people lining up to buy him in the next month. And tbh the way you guys stanned for that stadium you clearly can't afford, I think anyone can understand your finances better than you lot.
We've literally had bayern, united, spurs, arsenal, barca, Chelsea all linked with him. And I'd imagine it would be more than 40. We've also had reports our finances aren't as bad as everyone is making out, you're just making assumptions
I really really really hope Jarrad doesn’t move to Man U He’s a genuine generational talent he should be going to the very best clubs, not a club where players careers take a complete nose dive He’d be doomed
Generational?
A 6'5 left footed centre back with strength and pace and an astute reading of the game is literally generational
Maybe generational for Everton. But there’s many of his archetype in world football. On the ball he’s not all that either
Looked generational against you lot at Goodison lmao
I've watched every one of our games this season, he could definitely make it to the very top. he plays like he's a veteran of ten years. so assured and self confident. but not just in the "pass it around the back" sense, he's got a fucking claw machine of a tackle. he makes these tackles and you just think, you had no right at all to win that so cleanly. other defenders don't back themselves to win the ball like he does. he goes into tackles that would normally have you wincing because its a guaranteed foul, but he wins the ball and doesn't even touch the man. its mental. learned to put his body on the line and make brilliant blocks from tarkowski as well. I love him and would be gutted to see him go this season. he's brilliant oh and he's got a goal or two in him
If Branthwaite is guaranteed to leave this summer and Everton get a good fee, where would you like to see him go?
Real Madrid, probably. Maybe Bayern if they want someone. And if Branthwaite isn't ready for that jump, we'd be happy to hold onto him for another year. A good Euros would be good for Branthwaite's stock.
I mean ideally I’d like to see him go straight to a title challenger, which I don’t think would be the case just now One more season at Everton I reckon he would be Real Madrid could do with a centre back, Nacho getting on, Militao not really playing well since return Rudiger Branthwaite partnership would go hard
Arteta loves left footed centre backs, but he will be out of the budget.
Hello there...
Jokes and rivalry banter aside, do you think you'll challenge for the title with the new manager?
Fuck no lmao I would be very happy with a solid top 4 and a good cup run. Our squad is in a much better position than it was when Klopp first came in, or when other teams have lost their top managers, so I do think we can be good but competing for the league year one would be an insane expectation.
Cheers. It'll be an interesting season to see how things change. Lucky for you, your owners seem willing to give managers a chance to bed in rather than this scorched earth mentality everyone else is on
Unless we have an amazing transfer window and players like Jota stay healthy and Diaz/Nunez get some scoring boots again no way. Top 4 and cup runs why not?
Already got their fans calling him a backup and maguire 2.0
Don’t listen to fans on Reddit, or anywhere else for that matter. They know little to nothing about football
Even Guardiola called Martinez a top 5 CB in the world after the FA Cup final.
Might be wrong but wasn't that fake? He called nunes one of the best in the world as well anyway
Either way, Martinez is clear of Maguire. I'd say he's at least top 4 CBs in the PL. I hope he gets to show that next season. His issue was that after coming back from injury someone literally landed on his knee with their full weight and kept him out almost the full season. I don't think he's injury prone. He's just been unlucky with contact injuries.
I wouldn't say at least top 4, I'm having gabriel, saliba, van dijk and stones ahead of him. And obviously I'd have branthwaite He's had limited game time to show his ability so maybe if he plays more I'd be more convinced
Yeah but 99% of Man United fans are plastic glory hunters that don’t actual watch football and base their knowledge on eafc ratings The opinion of a Man United fan in a discussion in football is like akin to shitting in your hands and clapping Absolutely fucking pointless and a complete mess
Saying 99% of United’s fanbase are plastic glory hunters is just wrong and saying that 99% of them don’t actually watch football is delusional. Are you like 5 years old?
Found one
We haven't won CL in 16 years or a league title in 11 years. How are we glory hunters?
You're literally England's 2nd most successful club seperated by one trophy and have been the most dominant team in PL history claiming 13 titles of a possible 32 If you're not from Manchester or the surrounding area's you're a glory hunter. You've chose to support that team because of their success.
I started supporting United in 2014 and have seen almost nothing but mediocrity tbh I'll keep supporting though because at this point I've invested too much emotion into this club
So you started supporting Man United at the end of their domination of the league And you're claming you're not a glory hunter because the following years werent as successful.... Are you for real?
I supported them because of Chicharito
Chicarito left in 2014... If you were supporting a team because of him you were supporting Real Madrid
I started following United in 2014 before he left that summer. Edit: My main point was that I would've probably supported Madrid by the time Ole left if I was a glory hunter. At that point we hadn't won a trophy in 5 years.
Have you seen Mainoo, Garnancho, Hojlund development? Or are you too blind by your own biasness.
3 players who have been hit and miss throughout the season is not enough to try and convince the rest of the footballing world that in recent years players transfers to Man United have seen their career take a massive dive An FA cup has papered over the cracks of the fact your squad has massively declined in one year
Hit and miss? Name 3 players the same ages that have had a better season? You can count them on one hand. For their ages those 3 have had one of the best seasons in Europe, weird to say they've been hit and miss. I agree though Man U hasn't been a good place for players to go, but most of those cases seem down to the players themselves. Most players who've come to United the last 5 years and wanted to improve, have done so.
Jarrad Branthwaite Adam Wharton Milos Kerkez Rico Lewis Saka Gusto Murillo Olise Caicedo Martinelli Ait-Nouri Curtis Jones Harvey Elliot Just a few names who have been 19-21 playing consistently for their clubs ther last few seasons that have been more consistent for their teams in the last couple of seasons, there are probably more but they're the ones I can think off on the top of my head
3/4ths of those are comical in comparison.
They’ve all been equal or better You’re delusional to think otherwise or you’re that mad that I’ve listed a good number of players to disprove your argument that you’re desperately trying to discredit them All those players have been better than Garnacho and Mainoo
Honestly with things changing, I would not be so confident of your assumption.
Things changing? You’ve just finished 8th, you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago and an FA Cup win has pushed all those realities to the back of your heads for some odd reason Man United have been unbelievably shit this season and is gonna take multiple years to rebuild Which will now take even longer after splashing like 600m quid on Sancho, Varane, Antony, Casemiro, Martinez, Mount, Onana, Hojlund If it weren’t for Chelsea, Man U would be getting an unreal amount of stick
I am honestly confident that we will be stronger next season. Every that can go wrong has go wrong for us this season. It won't ve the case next season.
I understand your confidence, doesn’t make it true ETH will get sacked at some point next season when it’s obvious nothing has changed after the FA cup win
Our entire club's structure has been changing over the last 5 months. Loads of execs were fired and we're bringing in a new CEO, DOF, and technical director to help run the club. For better or worse, we are for sure going to see changes in how we're run. If you think otherwise, you're dumb.
Your entrie clubs structure might change, but that doesn't negate the fact that these last few years players Man United have signed have seen their career nose dive
That was caused by the shitty culture the Glazers allowed to creep into the club Ratcliffe is doing this complete overhaul to improve that
Only 2 less wins than Villa this season. 3rd the season before. United are not far from being a consistent top team. If they have even half the amount on injuries as this season, along with one or two good buys. I'd be very surprised to see them finish outside of top 4 next season. Martinez, Onana, Hojlund all look very good players. Mount is proven quality. Sancho, Varane, Casemiro all look on the way out this summer. Antony was a dud, that transfer should be investigated. Also, "you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago". Says who? Zero evidence of this. 1 article by a Chelsea journalist (who has since back tracked on what he wrote) that no other journalist could back up or confirm and that wasn't touched by any reputible source. You read the Sun like it's AP news don't you?
>Only 2 less wins than Villa this season Also 4 more losses >United are not far from being a consistent top team. What? Man United are from consistent. Scraped a tonne of 1 goal wins against the likes of Luton twice, Fulham, Wolves twice etc jut dumb luck most of the time >Martinez, Onana, Hojlund all look very good players. Martinez injury prone, Onana has been shaky throughout the season, Hojlund has been poor despite small purple patch and lack of service >Mount is proven quality. Nah, not for me, not a fan tbh >Sancho, Varane, Casemiro all look on the way out this summer. Sancho will be a massive loss, Varane gone for nothing, Casemiro be another big loss >Antony was a dud, that transfer should be investigated. That was your manager's strongest request and a massive summer long chanse >Also, "you were all sacking your manager 2 weeks ago". Says who? Literally. Your fan base.
Clueless lol
Good feedback, much appreciated.
Things changing lmao
United have new owners. Did you not see that? I remember what Liverpool was like before FSG. You've got your head in the clouds if you think new ownership of the biggest team in the league wouldn't lead to change.
Hojlund cost £70m and delivered about the minimum you'd expect for someone in that price range. Garnacho has been decent, but people seem to forget that he had 1 goal / 1 assist in his first 18 league games this season, and 2 goals / 1 assist in his final 13 league games. The dire performances of Rashford and Antony helped him a lot. Mainoo looks the business, but that's more a reflection of United's youth academy than it is the first team developing players.
Name 3 players the same ages that have had a better season? You can count them on one hand. For their ages those 3 have had one of the best seasons in Europe, weird to try play that down. There's not a team on the planet that wouldn't be delighted to have those players.
In the league alone, Palmer, Udogie, Elliott, Sarr, Branthwaite. Since you're including Europe, we can include players like Bellingham, Yamal, Wirtz, Xavi Simons, Yoro, etc. I didn't say they're bad players or anything close to that. They were three of United's better players, but the bar was hardly very high. All three would still be bench options in any top club for now until they develop a bit more.
How many did you name are under 20?
Hojlund is 21. Garnacho is 20 in a few weeks. It looks like you've realised you might be wrong and you're now trying to get out on a technicality.
“Garnacho is 20 in a few weeks after the full season where he was 19.” ‘I’m not going to even address Mainoo’. And naming Sarr and Elliott as better, regardless of them being 2 years older, is a joke.
Well your argument was that all three had some of the best seasons in Europe for their age. Are you changing that to just Mainoo now? I named players in the age range of the three players you listed. Most of those I mentioned were 20 at some point in the season, and some were even younger. I don't see your problem. >And naming Sarr and Elliott as better, regardless of them being 2 years older, is a joke. Sarr had a very good season for a Spurs and was a consistent starter. At a minimum, he had as good a season as those three players. Elliott was just flat-out better and more impactful for a better team, even with more limited starts.
I’m not the OP but it’s a genuinely insane take. Elliott had 11 starts…
This as a transfer makes no sense he’s currently not better than Martinez and both are left footers and this is a sizeable amount despite our reported low budget when you could get a starting rcb and a back up lcb for the same amount as this
He can actually play a full 90 minutes for multiple games So actually yeah, he is better
Last season he missed more games than he did in his entire career if it continues sure but what’s the point in spending a sizeable amount of your budget on a position that you don’t need to replace. I get your an Everton fan and you have to back your player but assuming both are available he doesn’t start unless one plays on the right which isn’t ideal as one is playing not on there preferred side. Make no mistake he is very talented and has a very high potential and he is shiny new and English so will be preferred by the media but this is only his second season starting consistent minutes for a team that aren’t playing as many games a season so who knows long term. It’s 70 million on a player that is playing a position that is not in need of a starting replacement on a budget with ffp very much a problem it wouldn’t be a bad signing just not the most sensible at this moment in time however if ffp wasn’t a problem and it didn’t stop other transfers I would love for us to sign him
I can hand on heart say I do not rate Martinez, I have said multiple times on this subreddit I do not rate him, I think he’s insanely overrated by the Man United fan base
You’re chastising United fans higher in the thread for shitty opinions, calling them plastics who don’t watch football, and then you say this. Give over.
Because I don’t personally rate a player because they’re not my kind of centre back? Ok mate I think he is over rated, he’s a good defender but you act like he’s the second coming of the messiah Martinez couldn’t lace the boots of some of the Man United centre backs I grew up watching and I swear none of you talked about Vidic, Ferdinand etc like you talk about Martinez If it weren’t for ETH, he’d still be plying his trade with Ajax
That's just false. Martinez was Arsenal's first choice for the inverted LB role before they bought Zinchenko, they even offered 45m to Ajaz.
So then that’s not false is it Because they chose Zinchenko
They didn't. Martinez very publically turned down Arsenal because he wanted United only, and they stopped chasing them.
Martinez chose United/ETH which forced Arsenal to look elsewhere
From what I've read, any link to Arsenal was £20m less than what Man United actually paid I don't believe those links
You’re literally raving about a guy who had a good season in the same league Martinez was good in, and then a good season in the same league Martinez had a good season in, but one is amazing and one is overrated (and only Eredivisie quality, apparently). You also can’t just put words in my mouth. Sure, maybe some people think he’s the second coming of Christ, I sure as shit don’t. I think he is a _very_ good centre, back, though. Yes City had an off day, but it is also not a coincidence that we neutered their attack with Licha back in the lineup. If you think he couldn’t lace the boots of some of those others you’re just an idiot, which you’ve kind of already exemplified. You have the hindsight of looking at what Ferdinand and Vidic became. We signed Vidic at 25 and Rio at 23. We signed Martinez at 24. Ferdinand had already had time at Leeds to establish himself as one of the best centre-backs in the league, and Vidic took about 1-2 seasons to reach that level as well. Martinez is on a similar trajectory and it’s obvious. I’m not saying he _will_ reach their heights, but in his first season he was _clearly_ one of the best in the league and he’s been injured for his second season. You’re just being a weapon. Stop being a weapon.
I’m literally raving about a generational talent. You do not understand how good this kid is. He anchored a team that has battled relegation 3 of the last 3 seasons and anchored the defence to a CL level standard. I don’t rate Martinez and never will I genuinely believe he will be replaced sooner rather than later Deal with it
Just because I am defending Martinez doesn’t mean I am disparaging Branthwaite, you idiot. Jesus wept.
You said I’m raving about a kid playing one season, when I’m not, I’m raving about a generational talent Martinez played a full season in the PL, 5 years Branthwaites senior
It's fine for you to think a player is overrated but United fans thinking Branthwaite is a bit overrated makes you want to shit in your hands. The hypocrisy is the point he's making.
And he only doubled down on the hypocrisy. ‘If it weren’t for ten Hag he’d still be playing in the Netherlands.’ _WHERE THE FUCK DID BRANTHWAITE MAKE HIS NAME?_
Right… You do know Branthwaite was already and Everton player before his loan to the Eredivise? You do know Branthwaite had already played for Everton and that majority of Everton fans wanted Branthwaite to play for Everton first team before his loan to PSV Martinez would still be at Ajax if not for ETH just like Antony
Of course I know he was an Everton player, that doesn’t make a lick of difference to my point? He had played 9 games worth of minutes for the club across three seasons, went on loan to PSV and made a name for himself. That’s the point. You’re being a hypocrite.
Nope, that’d be the concept that Brathwaite is a bench player or Maguire 2.0
Well I'm not a United fan but right now I'd start Lisandro over him. Also, spending near the world transfer record for a defender that's an English CB that has one good PL season in a lower half of the table team that's defensively very well drilled would understandably cause concerns about it being another Maguire situation. And that's not shade because Maguire is still an excellent defender in the right system. Reasonable concerns in my eyes.
Then you haven’t seen Branthwaite play enough then It’s a transfer fit befitting of a generational talent, like that of when we sold Stones Branthwaite turned a terrible defence, one of the worst, into a genuine CL level defence We are defensively well drilled because we have Branthwaite in the team If you put Keane or Godfrey there instead, we’re relegated
Why may I ask?
Just don’t rate him, simple as that
What a moronic point of view. Thank you for not explaining any further
Well it’s not You don’t have to rate everyone just because others do I’m not a sheep
Clearly the critical thinking skills of one when you can't explain why you have that opinion.
I explained elsewhere in this thread Stop being a sheep
Lol, you just outed yurself as a complete moron mate. World cup winner Martinez is obviously absolutely quality, probably one of the best CB's with the ball at his feet in the world. It's one thing thinking he might not fit a certian style or you prefer a diffrent type of player, but even me nan would be able to see how quality he is after 5 mins of watching. Saying you don't rate him is admitting you've zero idea how football works.
>World cup winner Martinez is obviously absolutely quality Ahh the classic world cup winner Martinez shout. He started two games ffs. >probably one of the best CB's with the ball at his feet in the world. I am not remotely arsed about centre backs with their ability with the ball at their feet, especially when it's their best trait and it's why I do not rate Martinez. You can pass it till your hearts content but if you're a centre back and you're on the lower end of duels won and aerials won, then to me, you're just not it Martinez last season had a defensive duel success of 70% Branthwaite this is season has a success rate of 96% Martinez had an aerial% success rate of 13% last season Branthwaite this season, 69% Like I couldn't give a shit about passing >but even me nan would be able to see how quality he is after 5 mins of watching. So then you'd be seeing Martinez be on the lower success rate of defensive actions in the league, but it's ok, he can pass a ball. >Saying you don't rate him is admitting you've zero idea how football works. Me saying I don't rate him is because I know how football works. I know a great defence is built on great defenders. That's why the likes of Liverpool, Man City and even Arsenal to a degree have had such success, they have defencers who defend resolutely.
I think there’s probably a good argument that he’s better than Martinez now, you can never tell how players are going to return from injury. He’s also a more natural “pure” CB vs Martinez who can play multiple positions. Depends on who is managing you next year too, Branthwaite is a really good front foot defender if you want to dominate the game more and rely less on counter attacks
I mean he was our best defender against Brighton and City so it’s looking good that he’s returning to the same level he was at and I think it’s quite the opposite if you want to control games Martinez passing makes him superior to keep possession and branthwaites physicality is probably better if you want to defend for larger parts of the game. I do believe Martinez at this moment in time is the superior defender overall but that’s not to say in a couple of years branthwaite won’t be there
Martinez was bullying Haaland lol Martinez is the better pure defender even with his lack of height and a better ball playing defender too
He's far too good for United. I'd be disappointed if he went there.
Let’s hope not, I have no particular dislike for Man U, but I don’t want to see any young English talent going there right now. They used to be a team that built talent, now it feels like it is where talent stalls and dies
You say that but Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund have had pretty good seasons and they're all very young. Certain signings have stalled ala Sancho, Anthony but I'd argue they were questionable signings to begin with.
With Mainoo, I would say it is still early. Garnacho and Rasmus, I wouldn’t say they have progressed at United
Saying Garnacho hasn't progressed at United is a crazy take.
even saying Hojlund hasn't is odd he scored more league goals in a better league with very little service and was one of the top scorers in the UCL without playing a single knockout game
Atalanta 22/23 - 0.44 league goals per 90 United 23/24 - 0.42 league goals per 90 Clearly regressed /s
There's not much question those 3 have made progress to me. You clearly believe "player's careers stall at United" so you're choosing to not believe any evidence that challenges that. If you're getting U21 players into your first 11 and they're playing well at premier league level then they're going to progress. With Kobbie it is still early, he's just turned 19 but he's in the England squad and looks quite likely to start in the Euros. 12 months ago no one had even heard of him. If that isn't fast progress and good integration for a young English player than what is? He got MOTM in the FA Cup final, scored the winner and got MOTM in his England debut too. He pretty much looks one of the most promising young players in the world. Garnacho is only 19. He's played a lot this season (probably too much) but pretty much been our best winger and scored some important goals. He's definitely made a ton of progress since his debut. Rasmus is looking like a decent signing. He's a bit streaky with scoring, but after the injuries and drought he had at the beginning he's been much better in the second half of the season.
Problem is, none of the rest of the big English clubs desperately need him enough to pay 80m for him. Maybe Chelsea? The English tax often puts other big clubs from buying talents like this given the risk. Wonder if Bayern would take a punt on him
psv legend
Branthwaite is far, far too good to be signing for Man United.
This is what I think happened in his conversation with Coady. I don't think it was necessarily as simple as Coady saying he should stay at Everton for a year, but Man United were the main team in for him so Coady said wait another year for a better offer from a better team
Not for 80m, no thanks.
From what I have seen this season, he's very strong and aggressive on the ball. Tackling is very good. Decent passer of the ball and superb in the air. Would love him here, but the issue is that he might play as a second fiddle to Martinez if we keep EtH.
I think Brainthwaite being both footed helps in that he can start as a RCB next to Martinez and also fill in on the left when Martinez is injured. Meaning the backup cb you buy can be from the larger, more affordable pool of right footed cbs.
Martinez played 648 league minutes this season In my biased opinion he's also better than him Hopefully he doesn't go there and this doesn't matter though
He won't be lower than 80 mil for sure because at that price City is getting him just out of luxury.
I'm sorry but he is genuinely so much better than United... a top top team could build their defence around him for the next ten years
Please don’t ruin another promising English player
Would be good for them. If he hits the ground running they could then have the option to move Lisandro to LB or even to try him at DM.
100m. Nothing less.