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Wow, so crazy that clubs facing potential financial issues are trying to make moves to avoid those financial issues! What brilliant investigative journalism this isn’t.
Also very weird and convenient that Chelsea assured T1 sources like Orenstein that they were 100% fine for PSR and didn't need to sell anyone. Nothing to see here! They definitely weren't lying to try to avoid other clubs undercutting them!
The funny thing is that Ornstein didn't say "Chelsea don't need to sell anyone".
He said "Chelsea don't think they need to sell anyone by July 1st" and now it very much looks like Chelsea will be selling Maatsen by July 1st.
Yeah it's so cool how clubs that have spent irresponsibly are now colluding to get each other out of trouble, there's no reason to bring attention to this at all.
There genuinely isn't a reason to bring attention to it unless you've got proof that they're fudging the numbers to help each other out, which this clown clearly doesn't have.
People are annoyed about 3 clubs working within the rules of PSR.
Then the same people will tell Everton fans if they get a points deduction “You should have stuck to the rules”
There's two sides really. The argument used against the rule breaking clubs was that if they didn't like the rules, they shouldn't have agreed to them. So if they're acting within the rules to become compliant, they're not technically doing anything wrong and the same argument applies, rival fans can't be annoyed at them using a loophole that all clubs agreed to.
That said, selling youth products to each other at obviously inflated prices, or swapping players between each other is obviously not particularly within the spirit of the rules. Of course, it's fine because it is part of the rules, but it's a loophole within PSR that should ideally be sealed because otherwise it's an easy out for any rulebreakers.
>rival fans can't be annoyed at them using a loophole that all clubs agreed to.
Again, I'm not seeing this, neither in Panja's comments nor in general. People are "annoyed" that PSR makes it so easy to avoid as long as you have at least one partner to do take advantage of the rules.
I don’t think anyone that we’re selling or buying is at a particularly inflated price tbh. Kellyman is one of our top talents, Tim has had some very good loan spells in the champ, maatsen made champions league TOTS and we’re getting less than we wanted on the dougie deal. What’s the issue?
Villa did vote against FFP in 2013.
Don’t agree that the rules are obviously inflated. Maatsen is fair for a homegrown 22 year old left back that’s just has an impressive loan at Dortmund. Tim has lots of potential that could easily go for much more after a few seasons at Everton. Like them signing Garner from United
There’s similar sales to all these
Presumably Villa have to agree to abide by the rules to participate in the league though, even if they didn't want them.
And yeah, I don't think they're obviously inflated because the clubs don't want to be challenged. Maatsen is fair, but if the others got sold this window without PSR concerns, they'd never have gone for those prices.
What a shit argument. You live in the UK so you have to agree to abide by the rule that you cannot drive over 70mph on any public road.
Try driving on the motorway. Ive even seen the police drive over the limit.
The rules are not even close to being fit for purpose- they are not designed to stop teams buying the league, they're supposedly designed to stop teams going under. As if there's any chance of that happening with these teams. There are plenty of teams that can afford to be hundreds of millions in debt, just as in any other industry. And part of these same rules includes points deductions if you do overspend, because pushing a team closer to relegation is going to help their finances. Stop teams overspending by all means, but make sure the rules are designed for that purpose not for another reason altogether.
Nope. They're just annoyed that their clubs can't start picking at the slowly rotting corpses of clubs for their best players as they were used to doing in the past.
Rules are rules and if clubs are working within them they are 100% doing nothing wrong.
Tbf we don't know if this is actually a successful sidestepping of the regulations. Everton were convinced that they were fully in compliance last year. This could well be a case of clubs trying to get under the wire that the league ultimately determines isn't in keeping with the rules.
Exactly this. I can't think of any reason why people should be upset over clubs selling players to meet PSR.
The only reason I can think of is that they actually want clubs to fail it and get points deductions even if they don't break the rules.
> I can't think of any reason why people should be upset over clubs selling players to meet PSR.
I mean just as a general concept it's fucking ridiculous that clubs even have to do this in the first place. Villa for example are having to sell one of their top prospects as well as lose one of their key starters.
It's fair game for these clubs so fair play make the most of it while the loophole is still there, I just hate that it's something that even has to be done. It feels like academy players are being traded like fucking US draft picks or something.
Loophole is probably the wrong word but the fact clubs are having to agree to sell their youth prospects to one another purely to fit within the rules is comical. As I said, it means players are being sold closer to what trades are in US sports. It feels more like a business than anything with footballing intention and I know fans of these clubs who are disappointed they have to sell their youth prospects to stay in line with the rules.
Again not blaming the clubs for this, I just hate that this is what they've had to resort to because of the way the rules are and from my own anecdotal interactions fans of these clubs aren't happy with it either.
I don't think many Everton fans are upset to lose Dobbin, who I love but doesn't really work in Dyche's system, and getting a midfielder who potentially fits really well. That's £9m overall spent and £3m sold. It's not league-breaking figures here.
People are dressing this up as cynical manipulation but Everton need to sell and have done so while actually improving the squad. I just can't see why so many people's heads have fallen off here.
But they're not, clubs are scratching each others backs by selling each other players for inflated prices. This gets both of them round PSR without either gaining or losing any money.
There are very fair reasons to be angry and very unfair reasons to be angry. There's an inherent imbalance in the sport, which will always make it harder for lesser-money clubs. But the "solutions" are quite often not solutions at all, esp. if they seem to be there to maintain the status quo.
So these 3 clubs have to basically trade players so that their "pure profit" players go out and new ones come in, just for the sake of saying that you moved bodies? Stupid. Why should a club need to move its academy kids just so that they can spend that money on a player from outside?
The problem is that people think these rules are there to make things more fair, when ostensibly the point is to stop clubs going into admin.
Thank you! Most aren't objecting to what the clubs are doing, but why they are doing it. Rules that incentivize selling academy players for accounting rather than sporting reasons are deeply flawed.
The human side of it sucks as well - the connection developed btwn a club and its academy kids gets broken just because it's the "solution" to balancing the books.
Everybody last season: Stop overspending. Rules are rules. Sell some players.
Everybody now: No, not like that.
In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably.
The amount of big 6 fans I’ve seen saying villa have psr issues we should totally rinse them I can’t believe all this crying foul with respect to PSR is being done in good faith
Exactly. United's bid for Branthwaite was £28m and every comment from United fans was about accepting it or going into administration.
That's what all these people whining about 'loopholes' are really getting at. They don't care about financial stability or fairness. They want other clubs to fail PSR.
It was 43m including add-ons as reported by [Ornstein](https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-ornstein-big-pinch-point-branthwaite-transfer-everton) who is Tier 1 for Utd. It's a reasonable lowball opening offer to negotiate from.
That article says £35m?
Either way it's a derisory bid because United mistakenly believed they could take advantage of PSR rules. The fact Everton can sort it with a small sale for Dobbin is great for the club.
I don't want that, I do want my team to get a really good player on the cheap though. Teams constantly quote massive prices because a club has money, why not low-ball when a club needs money? Same difference really.
> every comment from United fans was about accepting it or going into administration.
I don't know where you're getting this from or if you're just chatting shit to prove a point but I've seen next to nothing relating to Everton in regards to that fee from United fans. Instead it's "holy shit we're actually lowballing for a change" or "I hope we walk away rather than overpaying".
I'm not making it up. There were a lot of comments on here and in the Everton sub saying exactly that. I imagine the Utd sub had even more.
Ratcliffe's leak to the press even said it.
I agree with you that there were plenty of comments like the ones you mentioned, but there were also plenty of comments saying that he was the only valuable asset at the club and Everton could be forced to sell, or suggesting that £35m is a fair fee.
I mean people did though. Lots of people called it laundering at the time. [it was even investigated](https://amp.sport.es/en/news/calcio/pjanic-arthur-swap-deal-juventus-transfer-12910884)
It was some of the most obvious transfer dodgyness ever, of course it was brought up here. Not sure what point was trying to be made there. This is the website where people (myself included) can't wait to spam "money laundering" comments whenever Lukaku and Morata's names pop up.
I'm not even sure why he's brought it up at all. It's not related to my post in any way. I can only assume his reading comprehension is just a bit shit.
> In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably.
Let's not play dumb now
Haha what a loser u/tiredhack, couldn't handle his obvious bullshit being called out and blocked me.
Yeh, a swap deal with hugely inflated transfer fees upwards of £70m is exactly the same as Everton selling a talented young winger for less than £5m to cover a £3.3m PSR gap.
>In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably.
You'd rather they instead play with the careers of young kids? Chelsea clearly isn't a good move for someone like Kellyman.
And let's not pretend a move to Chelsea for a young footballer is something they wouldn't want. They're an incredibly attractive proposition even after last year.
Lot of people acting like we’re all breaking the rules when this is the corner we’ve been forced into and, rather than doing sky would clearly want and selling our best players to United, city, Liverpool and Arsenal, we’re selling them abroad and sending academy prospects to other struggling teams. It’s all perfectly above board.
Weird how nobody cared when Shea Charles was sold for £15m. Or Jordan Ibe went for £20m. Bazunu, Trafford, Brad Smith, Brewster, Hall. The list of big transfer fees for unproven 'Sky 6' youngsters is huge and many turned out to be utterly shit.
But apparently a couple of sub-£10m deals is too much now.
And I think Hall will be a great buy but £40m is a lot. The point is nobody on here has any idea of fair value but these transfers really don't look ridiculous to me.
There's a lot of people in this thread disingenuously suggesting Panja thinks you should be surprised by this, or that he's "breaking news".
It's just a sardonic comment on how easy it is to step around PSR rules.
> It's literally what the rules want you to do
The rules want you to make financially smart decisions. Selling a player for £5 and then buying another for £5 should put you, in theory, back at square one. But with PSR it could put you and your trading partner each £4 ahead, even though in actuality you've made zero profit.
Nottingham Forest chose to wait and negotiate with Spurs to get 50 million for Brennan Johnson instead of selling earlier and getting 40 million and yet they got a points deduction. I'm not sure whether they actually care about smart financial decisions
We can have a moral argument about whether PSR/FFP was designed to protect the big boys, but on the face of it the rules are designed to ensure clubs more or less break even consistently. That's what I mean by "the rules' want"
>on the face of it the rules are designed to ensure clubs more or less break even consistently.
Which is something completely different than (could even be diametrically opposed to) 'financially smart decisions'
So buying one player and selling the other is not a financially smart decision?
>But with PSR it could put you and your trading partner each £4 ahead, even though in actuality you've made zero profit.
No? It wouldn't?
If they're of the same value it's at best a financially neutral decision. But with PSR, it actually puts you ahead.
>No? It wouldn't?
Yes, it would. £5 goes on the books immediately as a sale, and only £1 goes on the books as a cost (the rest is amortised)
They are not tho? They will have to make further sales in the following years. So ultimately, the net loss/profit has to be 0.
If club spends X amount of money on players in one fiscal year, they will eventually have to make sales later to balance the spending. They don't have to do this the same year, but it's inevitable either way.
You've not been paying attention if you've not noticed clubs kicking the can down the road to the "following years" in an effort to fix immediate PSR issues.
No, dodgy deals only happen in places like Turkey, Greece, Russia and Saudi Arabia, it couldn't happen here, this is all just a very fortunate coincidence.
Genuine question. Do you really think fans of English clubs say this sort of thing?
All I've ever seen is people calling out dodgy stuff constantly. Everton, Forest last season, Newcastle's owners, Chelsea's amortisation trick etc.
Just seems like you're straw manning hard here.
Fuckin hell, its a stupid joke you dont have to over analyze it. Anybody that believes that football is clean anywhere in the world is an idiot. As if the billion dollar betting industry won't have any impact on the leagues in the world...
You think I am here to read or write cutting edge analysis? You know there are people paid to do that right? Anyways try not to be too anal about every comment you read online, it will help you in the future 😉
Same old victim blaming Panja, criticise the clubs for doing what is needed to not get punished, instead of talking about the moronic system governing spending that creates these scenarios.
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profit now, amortize later
Wow, so crazy that clubs facing potential financial issues are trying to make moves to avoid those financial issues! What brilliant investigative journalism this isn’t.
What's weirder is that these clubs motivated to do business before July are doing deals with other motivated clubs!
I'm confused why people are surprised. We've seen this happen in Europe.
Also very weird and convenient that Chelsea assured T1 sources like Orenstein that they were 100% fine for PSR and didn't need to sell anyone. Nothing to see here! They definitely weren't lying to try to avoid other clubs undercutting them!
The funny thing is that Ornstein didn't say "Chelsea don't need to sell anyone". He said "Chelsea don't think they need to sell anyone by July 1st" and now it very much looks like Chelsea will be selling Maatsen by July 1st.
The plan was always to sell Maatsen. Chelsea are fine with PSR
And we are rumoured to be selling callagher as well.
Why the fuck would you reveal to the parties you are negotiating with that you are obliged to sell? Lol.
That’s Tariq Panja for you. Everything is a sinister conspiracy to him
Panja is always whining about something
We aren’t worthy of such brilliance.
Yeah it's so cool how clubs that have spent irresponsibly are now colluding to get each other out of trouble, there's no reason to bring attention to this at all.
There genuinely isn't a reason to bring attention to it unless you've got proof that they're fudging the numbers to help each other out, which this clown clearly doesn't have.
People are annoyed about 3 clubs working within the rules of PSR. Then the same people will tell Everton fans if they get a points deduction “You should have stuck to the rules”
Are they? Or are they annoyed that the teeth of rules are so easily avoided by the construction of the rules?
There's two sides really. The argument used against the rule breaking clubs was that if they didn't like the rules, they shouldn't have agreed to them. So if they're acting within the rules to become compliant, they're not technically doing anything wrong and the same argument applies, rival fans can't be annoyed at them using a loophole that all clubs agreed to. That said, selling youth products to each other at obviously inflated prices, or swapping players between each other is obviously not particularly within the spirit of the rules. Of course, it's fine because it is part of the rules, but it's a loophole within PSR that should ideally be sealed because otherwise it's an easy out for any rulebreakers.
Who is being sold at an inflated price?
>rival fans can't be annoyed at them using a loophole that all clubs agreed to. Again, I'm not seeing this, neither in Panja's comments nor in general. People are "annoyed" that PSR makes it so easy to avoid as long as you have at least one partner to do take advantage of the rules.
£35m is hardly inflated for Ian Maatsen.
Maatsen is somehow a great youngster that helped Dortmund make it to the CL final, but also inflated at 35M
If people had never heard of “PSR” no one would bat an eye at that fee for him.
I thought it was a release clause value anyway.
I don’t think anyone that we’re selling or buying is at a particularly inflated price tbh. Kellyman is one of our top talents, Tim has had some very good loan spells in the champ, maatsen made champions league TOTS and we’re getting less than we wanted on the dougie deal. What’s the issue?
Villa did vote against FFP in 2013. Don’t agree that the rules are obviously inflated. Maatsen is fair for a homegrown 22 year old left back that’s just has an impressive loan at Dortmund. Tim has lots of potential that could easily go for much more after a few seasons at Everton. Like them signing Garner from United There’s similar sales to all these
Presumably Villa have to agree to abide by the rules to participate in the league though, even if they didn't want them. And yeah, I don't think they're obviously inflated because the clubs don't want to be challenged. Maatsen is fair, but if the others got sold this window without PSR concerns, they'd never have gone for those prices.
What a shit argument. You live in the UK so you have to agree to abide by the rule that you cannot drive over 70mph on any public road. Try driving on the motorway. Ive even seen the police drive over the limit. The rules are not even close to being fit for purpose- they are not designed to stop teams buying the league, they're supposedly designed to stop teams going under. As if there's any chance of that happening with these teams. There are plenty of teams that can afford to be hundreds of millions in debt, just as in any other industry. And part of these same rules includes points deductions if you do overspend, because pushing a team closer to relegation is going to help their finances. Stop teams overspending by all means, but make sure the rules are designed for that purpose not for another reason altogether.
Nope. They're just annoyed that their clubs can't start picking at the slowly rotting corpses of clubs for their best players as they were used to doing in the past. Rules are rules and if clubs are working within them they are 100% doing nothing wrong.
Ethics famously are defined solely by regulatory rules.
Tbf we don't know if this is actually a successful sidestepping of the regulations. Everton were convinced that they were fully in compliance last year. This could well be a case of clubs trying to get under the wire that the league ultimately determines isn't in keeping with the rules.
True, but this is fairly cut and dry. Everton's situation was a matter of interpretation that Everton lost.
[удалено]
You've just re-worded what I said lol.
Exactly this. I can't think of any reason why people should be upset over clubs selling players to meet PSR. The only reason I can think of is that they actually want clubs to fail it and get points deductions even if they don't break the rules.
> I can't think of any reason why people should be upset over clubs selling players to meet PSR. I mean just as a general concept it's fucking ridiculous that clubs even have to do this in the first place. Villa for example are having to sell one of their top prospects as well as lose one of their key starters. It's fair game for these clubs so fair play make the most of it while the loophole is still there, I just hate that it's something that even has to be done. It feels like academy players are being traded like fucking US draft picks or something.
What's the loophole? Selling players to make money? Everybody keeps saying it's a loophole but nobody can explain what it is.
Loophole is probably the wrong word but the fact clubs are having to agree to sell their youth prospects to one another purely to fit within the rules is comical. As I said, it means players are being sold closer to what trades are in US sports. It feels more like a business than anything with footballing intention and I know fans of these clubs who are disappointed they have to sell their youth prospects to stay in line with the rules. Again not blaming the clubs for this, I just hate that this is what they've had to resort to because of the way the rules are and from my own anecdotal interactions fans of these clubs aren't happy with it either.
I don't think many Everton fans are upset to lose Dobbin, who I love but doesn't really work in Dyche's system, and getting a midfielder who potentially fits really well. That's £9m overall spent and £3m sold. It's not league-breaking figures here. People are dressing this up as cynical manipulation but Everton need to sell and have done so while actually improving the squad. I just can't see why so many people's heads have fallen off here.
Because they are selling players to each other to make both their books look better without them actually financially being any better off.
They're selling players to satisfy PSR rules. It's not a loophole. It's what you're supposed to do.
But they're not, clubs are scratching each others backs by selling each other players for inflated prices. This gets both of them round PSR without either gaining or losing any money.
They're not inflated prices at all. Where are you getting that from? £3.5m for Dobbin is pretty fair.
There are very fair reasons to be angry and very unfair reasons to be angry. There's an inherent imbalance in the sport, which will always make it harder for lesser-money clubs. But the "solutions" are quite often not solutions at all, esp. if they seem to be there to maintain the status quo. So these 3 clubs have to basically trade players so that their "pure profit" players go out and new ones come in, just for the sake of saying that you moved bodies? Stupid. Why should a club need to move its academy kids just so that they can spend that money on a player from outside? The problem is that people think these rules are there to make things more fair, when ostensibly the point is to stop clubs going into admin.
Thank you! Most aren't objecting to what the clubs are doing, but why they are doing it. Rules that incentivize selling academy players for accounting rather than sporting reasons are deeply flawed.
The human side of it sucks as well - the connection developed btwn a club and its academy kids gets broken just because it's the "solution" to balancing the books.
Clearly they value the players they’re buying more than their academy players. Why do clubs need to stick with their academy players?
If they do, wonderful! But many of these moves are about swapping a "pure profit" asset for a a longterm contract per se.
Clubs signing sponsorship deals and generating revenue too. Very fishy if you ask me
Next thing you'll tell me is that they will put people on a football pitch and play matches. We're on to them
Everybody last season: Stop overspending. Rules are rules. Sell some players. Everybody now: No, not like that. In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably.
The amount of big 6 fans I’ve seen saying villa have psr issues we should totally rinse them I can’t believe all this crying foul with respect to PSR is being done in good faith
Exactly. United's bid for Branthwaite was £28m and every comment from United fans was about accepting it or going into administration. That's what all these people whining about 'loopholes' are really getting at. They don't care about financial stability or fairness. They want other clubs to fail PSR.
It was 43m including add ons, no idea where you're pulling 28 from.
There are zero reports you offered £43m. That's just not true. It was £28m up front then.addons taking it to £35m. Either way it's ridiculously low.
It was 43m including add-ons as reported by [Ornstein](https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-ornstein-big-pinch-point-branthwaite-transfer-everton) who is Tier 1 for Utd. It's a reasonable lowball opening offer to negotiate from.
That article says £35m? Either way it's a derisory bid because United mistakenly believed they could take advantage of PSR rules. The fact Everton can sort it with a small sale for Dobbin is great for the club.
Can't help you if you can't read
Good one.
I don't want that, I do want my team to get a really good player on the cheap though. Teams constantly quote massive prices because a club has money, why not low-ball when a club needs money? Same difference really.
> every comment from United fans was about accepting it or going into administration. I don't know where you're getting this from or if you're just chatting shit to prove a point but I've seen next to nothing relating to Everton in regards to that fee from United fans. Instead it's "holy shit we're actually lowballing for a change" or "I hope we walk away rather than overpaying".
I'm not making it up. There were a lot of comments on here and in the Everton sub saying exactly that. I imagine the Utd sub had even more. Ratcliffe's leak to the press even said it.
I agree with you that there were plenty of comments like the ones you mentioned, but there were also plenty of comments saying that he was the only valuable asset at the club and Everton could be forced to sell, or suggesting that £35m is a fair fee.
Douglas Luiz will probably leave, but to a foreign team and not one of the big 5 + spurs (ain’t calling spurs a big club lol)
Yea remember when pjanic was sold for over 80 mil nobody ever mentioned it because it was betwen big clubs and everybpsy loved it
I mean people did though. Lots of people called it laundering at the time. [it was even investigated](https://amp.sport.es/en/news/calcio/pjanic-arthur-swap-deal-juventus-transfer-12910884)
It was some of the most obvious transfer dodgyness ever, of course it was brought up here. Not sure what point was trying to be made there. This is the website where people (myself included) can't wait to spam "money laundering" comments whenever Lukaku and Morata's names pop up.
Sarcasm...
I'm not even sure why he's brought it up at all. It's not related to my post in any way. I can only assume his reading comprehension is just a bit shit.
Yes i know i am being sarcastic because op is acting like people are only calling it out because a small club is doing it
That's not what I said at all though? You've just completely made up an argument in your head.
> In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably. Let's not play dumb now Haha what a loser u/tiredhack, couldn't handle his obvious bullshit being called out and blocked me.
Yeh, a swap deal with hugely inflated transfer fees upwards of £70m is exactly the same as Everton selling a talented young winger for less than £5m to cover a £3.3m PSR gap.
Dobbin isn't as talented as you think buddy, sorry to be the one to break it to you.
He's talented enough that 3m isn't ridiculous
>In reality what he's upset about is that these clubs are not selling the right players. He wants Everton to be forced to sell Branthwaite cheaply, Villa to lose Douglas Luis etc. all to the Sky 6 preferably. You'd rather they instead play with the careers of young kids? Chelsea clearly isn't a good move for someone like Kellyman.
You know he has the ability to reject Chelsea right?
He"s not being forced at gunpoint is he? He can refuse the move if he doesn't want it.
Of course he could but let's not pretend that there wouldn't be a bit of pressure from Villa towards him in this sort of situation.
And let's not pretend a move to Chelsea for a young footballer is something they wouldn't want. They're an incredibly attractive proposition even after last year.
he's also probably getting better pay out of it as well so its not like hes being completely shafted because of it.
Lot of people acting like we’re all breaking the rules when this is the corner we’ve been forced into and, rather than doing sky would clearly want and selling our best players to United, city, Liverpool and Arsenal, we’re selling them abroad and sending academy prospects to other struggling teams. It’s all perfectly above board.
Weird how nobody cared when Shea Charles was sold for £15m. Or Jordan Ibe went for £20m. Bazunu, Trafford, Brad Smith, Brewster, Hall. The list of big transfer fees for unproven 'Sky 6' youngsters is huge and many turned out to be utterly shit. But apparently a couple of sub-£10m deals is too much now.
A lot of people questioned those deals
Tbf solanke was in that list too initially and now people think it was a bargain in hindsight
And I think Hall will be a great buy but £40m is a lot. The point is nobody on here has any idea of fair value but these transfers really don't look ridiculous to me.
I mean, wow. Clubs in need of sales, are selling their players who would have thought.
There's a lot of people in this thread disingenuously suggesting Panja thinks you should be surprised by this, or that he's "breaking news". It's just a sardonic comment on how easy it is to step around PSR rules.
Is it really "stepping around" the rules? It's literally what the rules want you to do. If you spend too much you need to sell in order to balance it.
> It's literally what the rules want you to do The rules want you to make financially smart decisions. Selling a player for £5 and then buying another for £5 should put you, in theory, back at square one. But with PSR it could put you and your trading partner each £4 ahead, even though in actuality you've made zero profit.
Nottingham Forest chose to wait and negotiate with Spurs to get 50 million for Brennan Johnson instead of selling earlier and getting 40 million and yet they got a points deduction. I'm not sure whether they actually care about smart financial decisions
>The rules want you to make financially smart decisions. The rules don't want that.
We can have a moral argument about whether PSR/FFP was designed to protect the big boys, but on the face of it the rules are designed to ensure clubs more or less break even consistently. That's what I mean by "the rules' want"
>on the face of it the rules are designed to ensure clubs more or less break even consistently. Which is something completely different than (could even be diametrically opposed to) 'financially smart decisions'
Use whatever words you like that help you win whatever argument you think you're having right now. When you're done, let me know what your point is.
So buying one player and selling the other is not a financially smart decision? >But with PSR it could put you and your trading partner each £4 ahead, even though in actuality you've made zero profit. No? It wouldn't?
If they're of the same value it's at best a financially neutral decision. But with PSR, it actually puts you ahead. >No? It wouldn't? Yes, it would. £5 goes on the books immediately as a sale, and only £1 goes on the books as a cost (the rest is amortised)
It doesn't put you ahead tho. Unless you want to look only at a single fiscal year, which is absolutely incorrect thing to do.
> Unless you want to look only at a single fiscal year Which is exactly what many clubs are doing mate. That's the point.
They are not tho? They will have to make further sales in the following years. So ultimately, the net loss/profit has to be 0. If club spends X amount of money on players in one fiscal year, they will eventually have to make sales later to balance the spending. They don't have to do this the same year, but it's inevitable either way.
You've not been paying attention if you've not noticed clubs kicking the can down the road to the "following years" in an effort to fix immediate PSR issues.
There's no other world where Chelsea is spending 20 million on Omari Kellyman. We can be honest here.
Wolves and Portuguese football entered the chat.
Prem clubs and dodgy deals?? I refuse to believe this...
No, dodgy deals only happen in places like Turkey, Greece, Russia and Saudi Arabia, it couldn't happen here, this is all just a very fortunate coincidence.
Not pristine beautiful pure British football. There is no way!
Genuine question. Do you really think fans of English clubs say this sort of thing? All I've ever seen is people calling out dodgy stuff constantly. Everton, Forest last season, Newcastle's owners, Chelsea's amortisation trick etc. Just seems like you're straw manning hard here.
Fuckin hell, its a stupid joke you dont have to over analyze it. Anybody that believes that football is clean anywhere in the world is an idiot. As if the billion dollar betting industry won't have any impact on the leagues in the world...
Sorry, I'll leave you to continue to wank each other off over things that didn't happen then.
Thanks
Lives rent free in your head
The corrupt Premier league lives rent free in my head? Maybe a visiting spot now and then but I don't dwell on it so much.
>dodgy deals What's 'dodgy' about all this then?
Everything about Chelsea is dodgy
Only the most cutting-edge of analysis makes it here at r/soccer
You think I am here to read or write cutting edge analysis? You know there are people paid to do that right? Anyways try not to be too anal about every comment you read online, it will help you in the future 😉
Try to contribute to a conversation instead of making stupid comments, people will treat you nicer
I dont give a shit about you my guy. Move along.
lol
Does this guy think his the only genius who has noticed this?
Why would you think he does?
[удалено]
We probably don't. Maatsen deal is likely to be completed after June 30th, as it benefits both clubs to book the costs starting next year.
We still need to for next year’s books as only Manchester City right now can guarantee champions league football.
I’m sure he wanted to ask the clubs about this but ran out of time…
Same old victim blaming Panja, criticise the clubs for doing what is needed to not get punished, instead of talking about the moronic system governing spending that creates these scenarios.
It makes me laugh how we are the other club that will be affected but our stance is just “ah well let’s just take the minus 10 points” 🥲
Villa 🤝 Everton It's a pleasure doing business with you. Fuck the Sky 6 and their cartel protection rules 👍
Villa fans acting like they've qualified for CL 10 years in a row
Don't know how your came to that conclusion from my comment 🙄
‘The sky 6’ Jesus Christ
Cheers Geoff 👍
Tbf i always liked "the break away 6" so no one forgets they all tried to join the super league