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Because when Ney was not injured, his level was closer to Messi than anyone was closer to him imho. It is just unfortunate thar he is too injury prone and does not really have other good attackers in the NT in his generation .
Vini and Endrick are good and they might reach a similar level (especially Endrick, he still has time), but Neymar just felt like different gravy from a very young age. He was being heralded as the next Brazilian superstar and I never felt it was overhype. He really was that good and you could tell even in his Santos days.
A shame. It was not only the injuries that derailed his career, the people surrounding him also had a role in that. I do believe that had he stayed at Barcelona in 2017, he would've been the heir to Messi's throne and continue to win shit well after Messi was gone.
Not sure about Enrick but I don't think Vini can reach Ney's level. Vini can be a prolific attacker without a doubt, but a special player like Messi or Neymar or Mbappe were different, you usually can tell a player can be something special before he becomes prolific, I honestly rather think Yamal is this kind of player instead of Vini.
On a fundamental level his technique/mental ability just isn't at that otherworldly level, and probably won't ever be. I'd say he's the best winger on earth right now bar Mbappe(if you truly count him as a winger), but as compared to the very best few to ever play, he's not particularly close.
Vini is far closer to Foden, Saka, Rodrygo etc. than he is to a prime Neymar, Messi, etc.
I agree. He just doesn't have that feel from the experience when I watch him playing in the UCL. On the other hands, you could tell players like Cesc or Muller could be a special player even when they were still raw, it could be either techniques or the intelligence, or both. I don't know how to really put it into words, but I think people who watch football constantly would know what I mean.
Btw, I felt the same vibe on Havertz when he was in Bundesliga, but he has not grown that well since then imo.
Can’t speak about Endrick as I’ve never watched him but I highly doubt Vini can reach peak Neymar levels. And that’s not even an insult, Neymar got quite close to Ronaldo/Messi levels at times.
fair enough, I just think from what Ive seen of this Brazil NT and both of those players, its just not close to what I saw with Ney all those years back.
I think people really hold on to how talented Neymar was. You're never going to see someone like him or Messi or CR or Zidane for a very long time. Maybe Mbappe comes close.
Talent is great but its not winning tournaments alone as we've seen with Neymar.
The years to come are gonna be so rough. The next generations that will watch football wont believe us when we tell them how fucking good Messi and Ronaldo were.
For better or worse, Neymar is only ever going to stop playing for the national team when he wants to. Guaranteed starter spot for as long as he wishes.
I think you could make an argument for those two as well as: Kane, Mbappe, Kroos, Foden, Wirtz. Probably forgetting some others too
For me it's Vini but nobody has run away with it like we've seen in years past. If Germany win and Kroos is out of this world I'd love to see him win and retire on the ultimate high
To me Kroos is not just performing better in the NT but vastly so. He should be in the conversation and if Germany wins the Euros I can actually see him win it.
It’s not uncommon for world class players being unable to replicate their club form in the national team. For some, it can take a while - for others, it never clicks.
Theres a difference between being unable to repljcate world class club form but still being productive for the NT and whatever Vini is doing for Brazil
It's not that, Madrid's system which relies more on counter attacks is much better for a quick player like Vini who depends upon his speeds+acc to get out of situations, compared to Brazil's system which is more dependent on creating attacks.
>world class squad.
True, it's just like with Haaland for Norway. You can't expect Vini to really perform with a bunch of random hicks like *checks notes* record world cup winners Brazil
How can Madrid have a "world class" squad if all players are overperforming and playing one or two levels above of what would they look like in other teams? You make zero sense.
The Brazilian nt is still world class though. But I agree, Madrid tends to make players better than they look on other teams. Let’s hope it’s not the case for Mbappe 💀.
Ah, the club/int'l dichotomy. I was thinking of that last night watching James play so well for Colombia. Guy's a wreck in club football but a star in international. Other way around for Vini Jr.
Well that’s James as of late. He was always great at Porto and Monaco. Then he won golden boot in Brazil and followed that with la liga midfielder of the year in 14/15. He was solid as well in 15-16 and 16-17 until Zidane pretty much entirely phased him out but I think he was average at worst at Bayern. Then things really fell apart. But for a few years there at least he obviously was great for Colombia and also great for his clubs
Sold him and digne the two best creators in that squad. DCL is only really strong in the air and with those two he would have been fed quality crosses. He hasnt hit close to his goal scoring heights since they left.
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/-_wwxwaUqQk?feature=shared) this one is in english but there are more documentaries in spanish and portuguese and a movie documentary.
With Real until now he has been allowed to almost play as a left sided forward and hang up on last man for Real on the break.
They did it with Benzema as he had no real pace and need that threat in behind early and now still gets lots of freedom as have no striker other than Joselu when plays and he is slower than Benzema.
For Brazil he always looks more of a 'proper' wide player asked to hold width,defend more and play more in a system.
He can get that role for Real with Mbappe around most likely as Mbappe does exact same thing and plays on last man..unless Mbappe plays CF but even then two players looking for ball in same way and same areas may not work.. worse problems to have for Real though!
Trust me… I’ve been watching all the Brazil games and his numbers match the performances. He’s just not it for Brazil - not sure what we need to do to turn that around.
Because assists are nowhere near as important, and can also be deceiving. Mbappe was among the top players in this year's CL for big chances created, but got 0 assists.
Why are assists not as important? Your argument is the same for goals. Some goals are just tap ins or penalty kicks. All goals are not created equal just as assists are not all equal. Saying they’re not as important makes no sense though
[Busquets got an assist for this](https://youtu.be/2pWt_vG9_Ug?feature=shared)
[Ramires didn't get an assist for this](https://youtu.be/e2E-5PyYjT0?feature=shared)
It's obvious which of the two played the more creative pass, but Busquets got "rewarded" with an assist due to Messi's brilliant run, while Ramires got nothing, because Torres failed to convert the chance.
You picked exceptions to prove a point.
Messi has a ton of assists where he does LITERALLY EVERYTHING only for the scorer to tap it in.
See how that works?
How does this prove anything? Goals have the same weakness. Maradona’s World Cup goal counts the same as a deflected goal that was going to be saved by the keeper. I don’t think your comment addresses what I claimed.
And? On average it pretty much evens out. And it’s the same with goals. Some player can get a goal from a given tap-in, while another player can have a great shot stopped by a brilliant save.
Neymar put up sensational numbers despite his “terrible” Brazil teams. Vini only scoring 3 goals isn’t even in the ball park of what he shows for Madrid. It’s on him no excuse.
Yup. Also with Brazil not only the opposition defenders crowd him out but it seems so do his own teammates, limiting his space and movements. Especially so when Neymar was around. With Madrid Vini only needs to deal with the defenders.
> I think it's the weight of the shirt
That is such a lazy argument. Brazil use a system that doesnt fit him that well and doesnt cater to his strenghts so his performances arent the same as with us because we play FOR him. Vinicius has been playing for RM for a while and he has been in big games, being a main man even in situation were RM was losing in a big UCL game and he has delivered pretty much every time. So he clearly knows what is it to play under pressure.
> It's a big difference when it comes to playing for club or your nation
That theory doesnt hold when there are a gazillion examples of players that perform or have performed much better with their NTs than with their clubs, like James Rodríguez, Klose, Shaqiri, Ochoa, Memphis Depay, Morata, Lukaku and plenty more. The list isnt short.
Its not about color of shirts, its about systems and how much confidence has the coach in you.
Honestly I don't think it is tactics (or the shirt for that matter), everytime I see him with Brazil he is mentally checked out. In RM he has/had Benz, Kroos, Modric, Carva, etc, leaders that can take the heat of him or encourage him, or keep him from getting frustrated. That last thing is what happens in every BR match, he fails a dribble, starts throwing tantrums at the ref (way more than he does at RM), he ends up looking insecure and predictable. In RM he has some matches like that, specially in La Liga, but in Brazil EVERY match is like that.
I think tactics from our managers is a general problem for most players. Just compare how a lot of our midfield are star players for their clubs (and some fairly decent clubs at that) that look nothing like themselves whenever playing for us.
Vini has his fair share of blame, but most of the time for Brazil he's immediatelly surrounded by 2 or 3 dudes and don't have guys like Kroos to help him out
> Honestly I don't think it is tactics (or the shirt for that matter), everytime I see him with Brazil he is mentally checked out.
This is literally what happens when a player is used in a system that doesnt fit him.
> leaders that can take the heat of him or encourage him, or keep him from getting frustrated. That last thing is what happens in every BR match, he fails a dribble, starts throwing tantrums at the ref
Vini do protests a lot during the games with us aswell (so this isnt a sign of him being frustrated, its just how he is) but he does NOT need encouragement. One of his strenghts is that he doesnt give up and keeps trying and trying.
This is 100% about tactics.
How’s that ridiculous? Even Messi struggled to replicate his club form for Argentina during his early career and received heavy criticism from Argentinians at the time. Vini has only been playing for Brazil for 2 years now. He has time to find his form
No he wasn’t performing extremely well. He got 0 goals and 1 assist in 5 appearances during the 2010 World Cup and was criticized heavily. Maradona tried to play Messi as the #10 and it was a disaster. We don’t need any revisionism
If Messi didn’t get a single goal or assist he’s still better than Vinicius. The whole opposition defensive game plan is always around Messi since he started playing on the national team. Vini can’t do shit with one tenth the level of attention. They’re not in the same world to be mentioned in the same breath.
Messi was playing very well. The majority of criticism came from not being able to replicate his ridiculous barca form which was never gonna happen. Messi wasn’t getting much hate in 2010 since the team as a whole was subpar
1. He had Maradona as a manager (he was shit)
2. Messi was still performing well unlike Vini
3. This was the 2010 WC, what about the rest? The comment below responded with saying he had 20+ goals in 40+ games.
The Messi hate from argentians was due to him putting out average to good performances for the NT before 2012/2013, while he was already being in contention for best player of all time at the club level
I think Vini really just has a low game IQ. In RM, he is directed to make runs by his teammates and they play around him very well. In Brazil, he is expected to make plays, and he doesn’t know what to do. In order for him to be successful, Dorival and other players need to coach him directly
Madrid midfield does a lot of heavy lifting. Brazils midfield has like 1/10th the quality. I still dont know what joao gomez does to deserve a start every game
This stat is misleading. Vini hasn't really been a starter because Brazil's NT was built around Neymar. His first major tournament as a starter was the 2022 WC and he had a goal and two assists in three matches. In the tournament before that (Copa America 2021) he averaged less than 20 mins per game. Tite chose to bench him and play Everton Soares instead
Also, it doesn't help that he's played for like three different coaches (at least) and none of them use him the way Ancelotti does at Real Madrid unleashing his potential. He played yesterday as a false 9 ffs. That's not to say it's not his responsibility to be better, but the headline of _31 matches_ makes you think that he's started in those 31, but that couldn't be farther from the truth
He was poor at the 2022 World Cup and particularly in that game v Croatia when hooked early and part of the reason for him not playing much before was most likely how poor he was when he did get in.
He didn’t create one chance.. made one dribble and made 8 passes before being hooked in game still in balance long before end of match.. think you have the wrong game in mind.
I can't believe that Brazil have a harder time to produce a squad like early 2000's. Like wtf is going on there, every little road have kids that can control the ball with their toes. There is no way this is the best squad they can have at the moment.
He seems to want to dribble past 3+ players every time he gets the ball. Dude needs to play more simple and keep the attack flowing but he wants a highlight reel play every time.
I was gonna say Savinho, but Savinho looked like Vinicius pre-2022 season where he suddenly got world class after learning how to actually finish a play.
If Savinho can replicate what Vini did but for the NT, Brazil has a real gem in their hands. Big if though
If Messi, CR or mbappe performed this bad for their NT, they would be killed by r/soccer. Not sure why Vini gets a pass if he's supposed to be one of the best
Yesterday in the first half he was passing the ball to Costa Ricans. In the 2nd half he did nothing at all. He was the worst attacker in his team by a mile
21 Starts. 10 Subs. 1784 Minutes Played. 3 Goals, 5 Assists.
Also playing in weak Brasil squad.
For more context because this kind of post making it as if he started and played 90 minutes for all those 31 matches and paint Vini very negatively for easy karma.
Neymar had Fred & Richarlison to play alongside for a long time. Brazil has been on a steady decline since 2010. Now compare their stats. Vini hasn't been half decent for brazil
0 goals in the last year doesn't sound very good for supposedly the best player in the world. He can obviously score consistently, he's done so at club level, but he just can't do it for Brazil. He is underwhelming for them no matter how you view it.
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Endrick already tied him in goals in just 6 games
neither of them can fill Ney's shoes, its not even close.
Because when Ney was not injured, his level was closer to Messi than anyone was closer to him imho. It is just unfortunate thar he is too injury prone and does not really have other good attackers in the NT in his generation .
Vini and Endrick are good and they might reach a similar level (especially Endrick, he still has time), but Neymar just felt like different gravy from a very young age. He was being heralded as the next Brazilian superstar and I never felt it was overhype. He really was that good and you could tell even in his Santos days.
Neymar was the promised prince, heir to Messi/Ronaldo’s dominance.
And now he has basically retired before messi and ronaldo lol
A shame. It was not only the injuries that derailed his career, the people surrounding him also had a role in that. I do believe that had he stayed at Barcelona in 2017, he would've been the heir to Messi's throne and continue to win shit well after Messi was gone.
One of the few players to make a BDOR podium playing outside of europ.
Not sure about Enrick but I don't think Vini can reach Ney's level. Vini can be a prolific attacker without a doubt, but a special player like Messi or Neymar or Mbappe were different, you usually can tell a player can be something special before he becomes prolific, I honestly rather think Yamal is this kind of player instead of Vini.
On a fundamental level his technique/mental ability just isn't at that otherworldly level, and probably won't ever be. I'd say he's the best winger on earth right now bar Mbappe(if you truly count him as a winger), but as compared to the very best few to ever play, he's not particularly close. Vini is far closer to Foden, Saka, Rodrygo etc. than he is to a prime Neymar, Messi, etc.
I agree. He just doesn't have that feel from the experience when I watch him playing in the UCL. On the other hands, you could tell players like Cesc or Muller could be a special player even when they were still raw, it could be either techniques or the intelligence, or both. I don't know how to really put it into words, but I think people who watch football constantly would know what I mean. Btw, I felt the same vibe on Havertz when he was in Bundesliga, but he has not grown that well since then imo.
Can’t speak about Endrick as I’ve never watched him but I highly doubt Vini can reach peak Neymar levels. And that’s not even an insult, Neymar got quite close to Ronaldo/Messi levels at times.
Neymar couldn’t even fill Neymar’s shoes for Brazil.
Well Endrick is only 17 and only played like 5 games so its a bit presumptuous to say this imo
At 17 Pele won his first world cup making two goals in the final.
That’s a high standard isn’t it
fair enough, I just think from what Ive seen of this Brazil NT and both of those players, its just not close to what I saw with Ney all those years back.
I think people really hold on to how talented Neymar was. You're never going to see someone like him or Messi or CR or Zidane for a very long time. Maybe Mbappe comes close. Talent is great but its not winning tournaments alone as we've seen with Neymar.
The years to come are gonna be so rough. The next generations that will watch football wont believe us when we tell them how fucking good Messi and Ronaldo were.
I was thinking this the other day. Could be decades before we see aliens like that again. To get so much generational talent at once was a blessing.
Endrick and Neymar are completely different players. Endrick is more Romario like. You can't compare the two.
I’m out of the loop. I know he’s injured but is Neymar done for the national team? If he wasn’t injured would he have had a spot at Copa this year?
For better or worse, Neymar is only ever going to stop playing for the national team when he wants to. Guaranteed starter spot for as long as he wishes.
They just need to win a world cup, that's all they need to do and they will be bigger than Neymar. It's that simple
Just win a World Cup, got it
That simple man!
can't believe this guy benched Antony smh
100 million man there needs a chance
https://i.imgur.com/Z8mAkax.jpeg
The greatest football player of all time, but what are those 2 washed up penalty merchants doing in front of him?
You joke but in the Croatia match Vini was subbed for Antony and Antony played A LOT better.
He was subbed for Rodrygo..
wasn't antony directly responsible for the counter that lead to the equalizer?
That was Fred
Facts!
Not even same positions
Antony ~~plays~~ excels at every position
Everyone that has seen Brazil 2026 campaign knew Vini is like green lantern, his weakness is the color yellow
Oh, so that's why he's so strong for Real, he's a White Lantern there.
That's what losing RM plot armor does to a MF
Maybe that’s will changed during this tournament
Not if he plays like yesterday
Same thing happening to Bellingham
Neither Vini nor Bellingham doing much for their Ballon d'Or cases thus far
Which means that the race is still competitive between those two in the worst way possible, are there any other credible candidates to win the award?
I think you could make an argument for those two as well as: Kane, Mbappe, Kroos, Foden, Wirtz. Probably forgetting some others too For me it's Vini but nobody has run away with it like we've seen in years past. If Germany win and Kroos is out of this world I'd love to see him win and retire on the ultimate high
De Bruyne / Rodri maybe? if Belgium / Spain wins the tournament
I think De Bruyne missed too much time through injury but crazier things have happened. I think both are reasonable candidates for sure
Much bigger if on Belgium tbh
To me Kroos is not just performing better in the NT but vastly so. He should be in the conversation and if Germany wins the Euros I can actually see him win it.
His header is the reason England has won one game tho.
Just ask Lunin about that
You mean losing RM world class squad. Any player that joins real madrid plays one or two levels above what he would look like in another team.
Rodrygo is head and shoulders above Vini for the Brazil team so I don't know about that.
It’s not uncommon for world class players being unable to replicate their club form in the national team. For some, it can take a while - for others, it never clicks.
Theres a difference between being unable to repljcate world class club form but still being productive for the NT and whatever Vini is doing for Brazil
It's not that, Madrid's system which relies more on counter attacks is much better for a quick player like Vini who depends upon his speeds+acc to get out of situations, compared to Brazil's system which is more dependent on creating attacks.
what if 11 players join at the same time, do they still get the buff?
i actually think they would
Perez will make sure of it.
>world class squad. True, it's just like with Haaland for Norway. You can't expect Vini to really perform with a bunch of random hicks like *checks notes* record world cup winners Brazil
How can Madrid have a "world class" squad if all players are overperforming and playing one or two levels above of what would they look like in other teams? You make zero sense.
I have not seen many Spanish refs at international competitions
The Brazilian nt is still world class though. But I agree, Madrid tends to make players better than they look on other teams. Let’s hope it’s not the case for Mbappe 💀.
Is it though? I just looked at their squad and it's got to be the worst Brazil squad I ever seen.
Look at the 2010 or 2014 squads, this is bad, but not the worst.
You're right, those were worse. I didn't remember that at all. The attack seems dreadful. But the current squad is still not world class.
To be honest...I'm not even sure about that anymore.
It's bad but I've seen worse
Its still a heck of a lot better than many other national teams
Ah, the club/int'l dichotomy. I was thinking of that last night watching James play so well for Colombia. Guy's a wreck in club football but a star in international. Other way around for Vini Jr.
Well that’s James as of late. He was always great at Porto and Monaco. Then he won golden boot in Brazil and followed that with la liga midfielder of the year in 14/15. He was solid as well in 15-16 and 16-17 until Zidane pretty much entirely phased him out but I think he was average at worst at Bayern. Then things really fell apart. But for a few years there at least he obviously was great for Colombia and also great for his clubs
He was pretty good for Everton despite not being there long.
It's such a shame Everton fans never got to see James play live at Goodison. Benitez did such unbelievably shit job across the board.
Sold him and digne the two best creators in that squad. DCL is only really strong in the air and with those two he would have been fed quality crosses. He hasnt hit close to his goal scoring heights since they left.
He was one of the most unprofessional athletes I've seen playing for São Paulo, and I'm a Corinthians fan.
Unprofessional in what way?
every way lmao bro was checked out
The Selecao needs an alternative white kit
They had one... and then maracanazo 1950 happened.
I believe white was the main kit back then? Which made the switch to yellow more shocking
Yeah [white with blue neck](https://www.soccerbox.com/media/wysiwyg/soccer-box-blog/evolution-brazil-kit-home-original-change.jpg)
We should bring the first kit back it looks like something brasiliense would wear
It was white, but then Maracanazo happened and we changed to the current one. Funnily enough, the guy who created our current shirt supported Uruguay.
I am going to look that up. I love football lore
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/-_wwxwaUqQk?feature=shared) this one is in english but there are more documentaries in spanish and portuguese and a movie documentary.
Thank you
With Real until now he has been allowed to almost play as a left sided forward and hang up on last man for Real on the break. They did it with Benzema as he had no real pace and need that threat in behind early and now still gets lots of freedom as have no striker other than Joselu when plays and he is slower than Benzema. For Brazil he always looks more of a 'proper' wide player asked to hold width,defend more and play more in a system. He can get that role for Real with Mbappe around most likely as Mbappe does exact same thing and plays on last man..unless Mbappe plays CF but even then two players looking for ball in same way and same areas may not work.. worse problems to have for Real though!
I can't stand when people post stats and only look at goals while ignoring assists, which in his case however are just 5 so it doesn't change much...
Trust me… I’ve been watching all the Brazil games and his numbers match the performances. He’s just not it for Brazil - not sure what we need to do to turn that around.
Oh don't worry I wasn't trying to turn anything, so far he hasn't been good for Brazil
From my experience in seeing him for us he absolutely needs a very good coach to makae full use of him.
Because assists are nowhere near as important, and can also be deceiving. Mbappe was among the top players in this year's CL for big chances created, but got 0 assists.
I dont think it's fair to say they're not important, they mean you played a part in getting a goal for your team by supplying the final pass
Why are assists not as important? Your argument is the same for goals. Some goals are just tap ins or penalty kicks. All goals are not created equal just as assists are not all equal. Saying they’re not as important makes no sense though
[Busquets got an assist for this](https://youtu.be/2pWt_vG9_Ug?feature=shared) [Ramires didn't get an assist for this](https://youtu.be/e2E-5PyYjT0?feature=shared) It's obvious which of the two played the more creative pass, but Busquets got "rewarded" with an assist due to Messi's brilliant run, while Ramires got nothing, because Torres failed to convert the chance.
You picked exceptions to prove a point. Messi has a ton of assists where he does LITERALLY EVERYTHING only for the scorer to tap it in. See how that works?
How does this prove anything? Goals have the same weakness. Maradona’s World Cup goal counts the same as a deflected goal that was going to be saved by the keeper. I don’t think your comment addresses what I claimed.
And? On average it pretty much evens out. And it’s the same with goals. Some player can get a goal from a given tap-in, while another player can have a great shot stopped by a brilliant save.
You can say the exact same thing about goals though? This doesn't really prove a point either way.
The Phil Foden of Brazil.
Neymar put up sensational numbers despite his “terrible” Brazil teams. Vini only scoring 3 goals isn’t even in the ball park of what he shows for Madrid. It’s on him no excuse.
In less than 2000 minutes it’s not that bad
he's so much more daring and playful with us. he looks stiff with brazil.
Yup. Also with Brazil not only the opposition defenders crowd him out but it seems so do his own teammates, limiting his space and movements. Especially so when Neymar was around. With Madrid Vini only needs to deal with the defenders.
I think it's the weight of the shirt It's a big difference when it comes to playing for club or your nation
Why does Nike not make shirts that weigh as little as the Adidas ones? Are they stupid?
They don't have the facilities for that
Not really when that club is Madrid though
> I think it's the weight of the shirt That is such a lazy argument. Brazil use a system that doesnt fit him that well and doesnt cater to his strenghts so his performances arent the same as with us because we play FOR him. Vinicius has been playing for RM for a while and he has been in big games, being a main man even in situation were RM was losing in a big UCL game and he has delivered pretty much every time. So he clearly knows what is it to play under pressure. > It's a big difference when it comes to playing for club or your nation That theory doesnt hold when there are a gazillion examples of players that perform or have performed much better with their NTs than with their clubs, like James Rodríguez, Klose, Shaqiri, Ochoa, Memphis Depay, Morata, Lukaku and plenty more. The list isnt short. Its not about color of shirts, its about systems and how much confidence has the coach in you.
Honestly I don't think it is tactics (or the shirt for that matter), everytime I see him with Brazil he is mentally checked out. In RM he has/had Benz, Kroos, Modric, Carva, etc, leaders that can take the heat of him or encourage him, or keep him from getting frustrated. That last thing is what happens in every BR match, he fails a dribble, starts throwing tantrums at the ref (way more than he does at RM), he ends up looking insecure and predictable. In RM he has some matches like that, specially in La Liga, but in Brazil EVERY match is like that.
I think tactics from our managers is a general problem for most players. Just compare how a lot of our midfield are star players for their clubs (and some fairly decent clubs at that) that look nothing like themselves whenever playing for us. Vini has his fair share of blame, but most of the time for Brazil he's immediatelly surrounded by 2 or 3 dudes and don't have guys like Kroos to help him out
You don’t think it’s tactics? Have you watched his position lol we player 424, no way anyone can play in that formation
> Honestly I don't think it is tactics (or the shirt for that matter), everytime I see him with Brazil he is mentally checked out. This is literally what happens when a player is used in a system that doesnt fit him. > leaders that can take the heat of him or encourage him, or keep him from getting frustrated. That last thing is what happens in every BR match, he fails a dribble, starts throwing tantrums at the ref Vini do protests a lot during the games with us aswell (so this isnt a sign of him being frustrated, its just how he is) but he does NOT need encouragement. One of his strenghts is that he doesnt give up and keeps trying and trying. This is 100% about tactics.
I think he might be tired. He played in all of the games when he was not injured
He's tired since 2022?
Since his debut in 2019
I've been tired way longer than that
Because Brazil are not Real Madrid.
Great analysis…
It is the difference between a player who can slot into a system and a player who has a system built to massage their ego.
Cant forget him barely being able to complete 1 drible
Pulisic does better and more for a worse USA team. Pulisic > Vini clearly.
Most Ridiculous thing is I've seen some Real Madrid fans Comparing messi Struggle with Argentina in the Early days with this
How’s that ridiculous? Even Messi struggled to replicate his club form for Argentina during his early career and received heavy criticism from Argentinians at the time. Vini has only been playing for Brazil for 2 years now. He has time to find his form
In Messi’s first 30 games for Argentina he had 18 goals and assists and was named to the team of the tournament of the ‘07 Copa America.
And scored [this](https://youtu.be/4gSxMNLJUzU?si=ihf7Jz1_zqj3-kor) goal against Mexico in the semifinals
God I miss seeing Leo chip keepers with ease
Messi wasn't on 3 goals after 31 games. He was performing extremely well, just didn't win a senior trophy early
No he wasn’t performing extremely well. He got 0 goals and 1 assist in 5 appearances during the 2010 World Cup and was criticized heavily. Maradona tried to play Messi as the #10 and it was a disaster. We don’t need any revisionism
Funny how you ignored 2006 world cup, 2007 Copa America. Messi had 20 goals and 20 assists in 48 games for Argentina at Vini's current age
If Messi didn’t get a single goal or assist he’s still better than Vinicius. The whole opposition defensive game plan is always around Messi since he started playing on the national team. Vini can’t do shit with one tenth the level of attention. They’re not in the same world to be mentioned in the same breath.
Messi was playing very well. The majority of criticism came from not being able to replicate his ridiculous barca form which was never gonna happen. Messi wasn’t getting much hate in 2010 since the team as a whole was subpar
1. He had Maradona as a manager (he was shit) 2. Messi was still performing well unlike Vini 3. This was the 2010 WC, what about the rest? The comment below responded with saying he had 20+ goals in 40+ games.
Messi had 40 GA for Argentina when he was Vini's age. There's no comparison.
The Messi hate from argentians was due to him putting out average to good performances for the NT before 2012/2013, while he was already being in contention for best player of all time at the club level
No, it's actually the field's fault.
I think Vini really just has a low game IQ. In RM, he is directed to make runs by his teammates and they play around him very well. In Brazil, he is expected to make plays, and he doesn’t know what to do. In order for him to be successful, Dorival and other players need to coach him directly
Bald fraud
he dropped a stinker against costa rica, holy shit.
Neymar’s fault - everyone on here.
His evil twin takes over when its time to play for Brazil or smth
But he has a chance to be better than Neymar people on here tell me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not his fault. Copa is harder than WC.
Just like how he did with his Real Madrid career, he will improve.
Madrid midfield does a lot of heavy lifting. Brazils midfield has like 1/10th the quality. I still dont know what joao gomez does to deserve a start every game
one real madrid wonder smh
The shirt is too big for him, he'll get better with time but he doesn't have that mentality Neymar had at his age.
Brazil also has no leadership to keep his Madrid superstar ego in check. He would probably be much much better for Brazil with Kroos in the squad
Overrated
This stat is misleading. Vini hasn't really been a starter because Brazil's NT was built around Neymar. His first major tournament as a starter was the 2022 WC and he had a goal and two assists in three matches. In the tournament before that (Copa America 2021) he averaged less than 20 mins per game. Tite chose to bench him and play Everton Soares instead Also, it doesn't help that he's played for like three different coaches (at least) and none of them use him the way Ancelotti does at Real Madrid unleashing his potential. He played yesterday as a false 9 ffs. That's not to say it's not his responsibility to be better, but the headline of _31 matches_ makes you think that he's started in those 31, but that couldn't be farther from the truth
He was poor at the 2022 World Cup and particularly in that game v Croatia when hooked early and part of the reason for him not playing much before was most likely how poor he was when he did get in.
I watched that match and he didn’t seem poor in the first half (was substituted at HF iirc). In fact, I thought it was his best performance of the WC.
He didn’t create one chance.. made one dribble and made 8 passes before being hooked in game still in balance long before end of match.. think you have the wrong game in mind.
maybe… I didn’t count stats, just watched the game
Did both.. he was poor and stats back up how little impact he had. Simple.
Doesn’t seem you watched though? Neymar was hogging the ball and that affected everyone’s performance
Nonsense.. usual excuses.
lol dumbass never watched the match comment
Excuses.. he was terrible.. From watching game.. from the stats to back it up. Hence why hooked early when game in balance.
Brazilian Nico Gonzales
Don't you dare. Yeah, Nico fucks up every chance he gets, but at least he gets in position to fuck up those chances
Real Madrid makes any scrub look good
what the lack of Toni Kroos passes does to a MFer
Some players shine on nationals some on clubs :)
And he's ugly, poor lad
Truly carrying forward Hazard’s legacy.
From the games I’ve seen, main issue is that they crowd Vini and no one else does anything after he passes it out
People are just hating on him because many of them don’t like him for several reasons. Most people here didn’t even watch the match
I can't believe that Brazil have a harder time to produce a squad like early 2000's. Like wtf is going on there, every little road have kids that can control the ball with their toes. There is no way this is the best squad they can have at the moment.
Considering how the rest of Brazil performs, it's not like Vinicius is standing out in a negative way. They are all kinda dire, maybe Endrick aside.
He definitely stands out since he is supposed to be their best player
Surely it does stand out considering how good he is for Madrid
nah, vinicius was definitely brazil's worst attacker last night
He seems to want to dribble past 3+ players every time he gets the ball. Dude needs to play more simple and keep the attack flowing but he wants a highlight reel play every time.
I was gonna say Savinho, but Savinho looked like Vinicius pre-2022 season where he suddenly got world class after learning how to actually finish a play. If Savinho can replicate what Vini did but for the NT, Brazil has a real gem in their hands. Big if though
If Messi, CR or mbappe performed this bad for their NT, they would be killed by r/soccer. Not sure why Vini gets a pass if he's supposed to be one of the best
What is this bad? He’s just not playing like Real Madrid, but everyone is playing a similar level than him. Why is he the one in trouble? lol I wonder
Cause he isn't living up to expectations. Nothing to do with race which is what you're implying bud
Yesterday in the first half he was passing the ball to Costa Ricans. In the 2nd half he did nothing at all. He was the worst attacker in his team by a mile
overrated TBH only good at dribbling thats it
21 Starts. 10 Subs. 1784 Minutes Played. 3 Goals, 5 Assists. Also playing in weak Brasil squad. For more context because this kind of post making it as if he started and played 90 minutes for all those 31 matches and paint Vini very negatively for easy karma.
[удалено]
Modricinho, Cruz da silva, Valverde from Cisplatina Province
You missed Come Vinhas e Belinho do Presunto from Maranhão
Neymar had Fred & Richarlison to play alongside for a long time. Brazil has been on a steady decline since 2010. Now compare their stats. Vini hasn't been half decent for brazil
They also played only friendlies until 2014 lol need to check those Neymar goals
0 goals in the last year doesn't sound very good for supposedly the best player in the world. He can obviously score consistently, he's done so at club level, but he just can't do it for Brazil. He is underwhelming for them no matter how you view it.
The problem is that every other forward they have had in the past 5 years were better than him, despite most of them being worse players...
Not even close to true, he was one of our best players in the WC