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It was clear England won't tiki-taka the ball into the net, Slovakia was so solid. The only way you beat that is good ol' Brexitball. Bring in Watkins and Toney and just whip crosses in. The fact that he was 1-0 down, out of the tournament as a favourite 2 minutes to go and brought in Toney tells you all you need to know about him as a manager.
Especially because I thought he played very well. You could tell the team missed someone like him- it’s all good and dandy that Kane goes deep to play the pass (it’s a part of his game that I like), but if no one makes runs and is in the box, it’s useless- I felt like toney was good at that.
It's funny how he give his subs very little chances to impress while some of the starting eleven can fuck up time and again and he will still play them
the press and community is relentlessly attacking southgate, and yet somehow i come away feeling that everyone is still being too kind.
this isnt some poor little shop worker being bullied by the masses. this is the most overpaid person, in the most popular sport in the world, in the second biggest tournament of the cycle.
england would do better with an empty chair.
there are no words to describe how bad of a manager he is with the squad he has.
That game yesterday was one of the worst managed games ive ever seen. How did he manage to only make one sub until 90th minute with all the quality on the bench.
He should be doing jude belllinghams laundry for the rest of his life.
The problem is that this lucky bastard actually won the game and now he gets to pretend he made the right changes at the right time and he is absolutely too arrogant and clueless to take any of the positives from that game and apply them in the next.
This guy either thought that for nearly 90 minutes everything was going fine or he was too spineless to make an early change.
I think he’s far too stubborn.
I cant remember the exact question but he was asked how he felt after the Slovenia game when the fans were booing and he said something like “I don’t care”.
This is the worst football we’ve played and we only finished top of our group because the other 3 teams were just as bad. Germany scored more goals in the group stage than our entire group combined
Whatever happens in the tournament he should leave at the end of it but you just know he’s gonna luck himself into another 2 year deal.
Completely agree.
People arguing that he has got us a semi, a final, out the groups etc.
The guy has had the easiest international runs ive ever seen a team get and has still made it so hard.
This team alone has got us this far, as disjointed as it is. But the way they play just makes me think of 11 players, not a team. They look so disjointed and southgate has no clue what to do.
He’s like a gambler spinning slots, the next one will win, the next one will win.
He had gallagher get up, sit down, konsa get up sit down, watkins up back down, same for toney until the very last minute.
He clearly shows he has no idea what to do and thats why he waited so late, he’s so indecisive is embarrassing. The players coming out in his defence, after, for the first time ive ever seen he slagged them off, is just bizarre. The fans deserve to be pissed of, its terrible, terrible football.
The defence of Southgate is based entirely on how shite we were before, where getting out of the groups (or even qualifying in the first place) was not guaranteed.
I’d agree that argument has probably run its course now, and it’s only a lack of confidence from the FA in their ability to choose a successor that’s kept him in the job.
People also forget luck plays a big factor in winning tournmanets, England had luck yesterday, just like France had luck when Kane missed the second penalty.
> The defence of Southgate is based entirely on how shite we were before, where getting out of the groups (or even qualifying in the first place) was not guaranteed.
Ok but you guys are bloody England. Not some small Euro country who is just happy getting to groups, then even happier if you make it out of groups. You should be striving for more considering how damn good this squad is. I mean honestly, on paper, who beats this squad if you had a competent manager? Your defense has been largely very good this whole tournament (though against weaker opponents sure) and your attack has so much potential with a more balanced lineup.
I agree. But you have to understand what half a century of underperformance does to a nation’s mindset - Southgate was such an improvement when he took over. The expectations have adjusted in his time in the job, and that’s why the calls for him to go are growing stronger now.
It is bizarre. The whole world are screaming that the lineup isn't working. Kane is not performing, Foden is not working on the left, Tripper is not working at left back. Changing Trent for Gallagher for Mainoo and sticking your fingers in your ears will not fix all the problems. We need a natural left winger like Gordon, why hasn't he been seen other than for 5 minutes. Subs need to be made earlier. Watkins and Toney need to be given a chance. Walker is out of form and we have options. You could try Bellingham deeper so him and Foden aren't taking up the same positions.
And worst of all not one single pissed up patron in the entire land is looking at these performances and pining for Kalvin Phillips, but he is. I genuinely think he has mental health issues, or is being blackmailed into some of these decisions. Maybe part of some deep betting scandal.
I think it's a subconscious fear that if the subs do well, he will have more decisions to make. I don't think he even wants the headache of making the difficult decisions.
That game was screaming for 3 subs at 60 minutes.
Kane has always played best with someone up next to him. Obviously, Son. At Bayern he has multiple fast runners to play to (Musiala, Sane)
England right now have neither.
Extra bonus insight into Southgate not having a fucking clue was after accidentally stumbling into something that worked, that he took then Kane off, so then Toney was the one isolated and we sat deeper and deeper.
The issue wasn’t taking Kane or Bellingham off, it was who he brought on in their place. He made changes with the intent of sitting behind the ball and not trying to play it.
I do think it was the right call to take them off though, you can tell both players were utterly knackered.
> I felt like toney was good at that.
I thought Toney was good at Kane's role so that Kane could actually make runs. See the second goal.
He had some great long passes in extra time too, though he did fuck up that one chance by trying for goal instead of passing it to Eze
I mean, I agree he’s one of the best 9s in the world if not the best. But I’m just saying i do appreciate that part of his game (where if the ball isn’t arriving to him he drops in deep and looks for the pass)- I’d even say it’s one of the things that does make him one of the best 9s, because it means he’s not invisible if they stop the ball from getting to him (which is for example, a deficiency in haaland’s game).
hes actually a mole sent in by scotland to give us something to laugh about. only downside so far is that hes turned out to be an extremely jammy bastard
He did the same with Gordon in the Slovenia game. Brought him on in the 89th minute after they’d just given something like 3 minutes added time. Tf is anybody supposed in that amount of time?
He’s not a wanker, I just think he’s got his favourites and doesn’t really like switching things up even if it isn’t working.
If you watched his interview he said subbing in Toney was to introduce a bit of "chaos". Wtf was Toney supposed to do in that one minute cameo? That shows how clueless he was because we know for a fact no one would be able to do anything with that amout of time left on the pitch. Either that or he has no plan whatsoever, just hoping and praying Toney would bring in some sort of miracle in that one minute.
Exactly. He’s always quick to make changes to how we play when we have something to hold on to, but when we’re chasing a game or need a goal, he waits till the last possible moment to change things. It’s like he doesn’t want to change things too much in attack, because if he does and it works, he’s worried about us conceding or something, or that he’ll have to make more changes to protect the lead we’ve just gotten. Really negative mindset, that gets covered over by the quality of our players more than anything.
I thought it was just incompetence that was causing him to make the decision he makes but it might just be arrogance. Which is crazy because he hasn’t won shit.
If someone not fully qualified for a job gets the job, they might feel they're better than they actually are due to getting that job, it can lead to this mix of arrogance/incompetence.
Hilarious because at the first sign of a discontent comment Southgate and the squad start crying about doubters and podcasts. These guys wouldn’t be able to hack it during the golden generation era
I'll always point to the Ben White situation to make the point that Southgate does not have your back if you're not in his first eleven. He does not respect the time or talent of squad players.
That was thought to be his strong point at the start as well, transitioning the squad from the U21 into the senior team, turns out he was just playing favourites all along.
Him not wanting to use other players sends a message to them that they're not good enough and he doesn't believe in them. Imagine being called up and your manager still doesn't think you're good enough to get in a team playing like that.
And luckier that Toney then headed the ball to Kane.
It was odd seeing Southgate cheer. Like watching someone you know bet against the home team but then is super happy they won so they can still go outside without getting punched.
Lucky mf too. Because Ivan Toney immediately had a huge presence when he was brought in.
But now Southgate probably going to take the credit, “all part of the plan”
Putting him on in the final minute is incredibly stupid and insulting.
Calling it now. No adjustments to the shape. Same horrible box of 2 CBs and 2 DMs who can’t get open for passes.
Only change will be Konsa for Trippier.
Oh Trent is never seeing the pitch again. He's fulfilled his purpose of being the scapegoat.
He'll do something stupid like Trippier at CB and Watkins at RB.
Don't think so. The internet + social media allows the public to express their views more than the olden days. No England fan alive is going to forget how shit this tournament has been unless we have a miracle turnaround that the media are trying to will into existence.
A sub that was forced due to injury and meant that he had to play Saka at left back despite him being publicly against it (because he only brought one semi fit lb).
First tactical sub in the 84th minute, after being down since the 25th minute and not having a single shot on target. It’s genuinely hard to express how baffling his management is, and how lucky we’ve been so far.
I hate him for 100 reasons, but one of the worst things is his arrogance. Never once has he admitted fault, and it's obvious why he never fixes or changes anything - because he thinks he's flawless. Cunt.
It did feel like a “here’s a cap for you while we crash out of the tournament mate” gesture
Southgate is fucking woeful and I hope England get a more positive, progressive coach after he’s ditched.
Dyche with this England team could actually get us playing some decent football. He's only known for playing a certain way because that's what he's had available. Even at Everton he's got them creating quite a few chances per match.
I legitimately think he'd be good in international football. Pragmatic, very well organised, good team composition, gets teams working well quite quickly.
It's sad that Dyche gets memed hard in this regard, but he would genuinely do a good job. He's a very good, underrated coach. His football is seen as regressive due to the teams he's managed but he's played some excellent football at Everton and Burnley. Good tactician
If you watch interviews with Howe he talks about how the thing he enjoys most is working with players directly and improving them, he also talks about how he's the first one at the training ground and last one out. I can't see an international job tempting him with the approach he has to management/coaching.
Potter hasn't failed at club level, did excellent in Sweden and then with Brighton, the short stint at Chelsea doesn't mean much in my eyes I think almost any manager would have failed in the situation he came into
His time at Chelsea does worry me abit, I know it was a poisoned chalice and a club that was heading in the wrong direction. But it did a potential weakness when dealing with big international stars. Maybe it'll work out and atleast he's not Lampard.
I think it more had to do with the size of the squad and the logistics of training with so many players who can potentially be in the first team, as apposed to the character of the players/stars. A manager with a clear tactical plan prefers a smaller squad because it's easier to drill everyone in training and create a cohesive unit with a clear hierarchy and rotating players is simpler.
Howe’s strength is coaching players and in game management is probably one of his less strong areas. Wouldn’t be a good fit for international football.
Leagues ahead of Southgate still
Really? Potter seems like a guy that needs lots of time working with the team to establish his system. And he's not going to get that in international football.
Poch has never been a great knockout tournament manager. He's something like 0-4 in FA Cup semi finals during his time in England and famously trophyless. Sure he reached the Champions League final that one season with Spurs but that run included crazy last minute moments in the quarters and semis. Before a limp display in the final. He did okay with Chelsea this season but I don't think he's the type of manager England needs.
No, Potter changed Brighton's style of play in one pre-season. Obviously takes longer to get good at a possession-based system after playing more defensive football, but it was amazing how quick Potter and his coaches got the Brighton players playing a different style. Potter would be my no1 pick for next England manager, most of the England players already play a style he likes, so dont think there would be an issue.
I think Potter is the best fit out of available managers. Eddie Howe is who I’d want out of the limited number of good level English managers. Outside of that maybe Tuchel? Who would you suggest?
No way Tuchel would come. We need to ask ourselves why we have Southgate in the first place and look at the managers we had before him. I've said it before - the England job is thankless. The press are relentless and expectations are sky high. The wages are decent but the names being thrown around will expect more.
Drive a truck full of money round Klopp’s house and see if he’s in? I know he’s on a break and it’s a nonstarter, but international football is a lot less work day-to-day and it never hurts to ask
He’ll get to the final, lose against the first team where they’re not favourites, and get rewarded with a new contract.
Kind of joking with that statement, but I am curious what it would take for Southgate to be given a new contract. Winning the whole thing? Runners up? I can’t imagine anything less would be enough, considering how the bracket has opened up for England.
I don't think he's looking for a new contract. If he wins the whole thing I could imagine him bowing out while on top. If he finishes as runners up again I could see him and the FA thinking that's as far as he can take us and moving on to someone new
He's been in the job for eight years already and had to be talked into sticking around for this tournament, I could definitely see him calling it quits at the end, win or lose. I imagine the FA would offer him a new contract if he makes the semis, though.
Did the same shit with Sancho and Rashford. "Go on we get a few mins left, win it now or on pens please". Useless throwing Toney on like that, but he played well. Subs should've been much earlier.
Then in extra time Toney was a menace . If you wanted him to make a difference bring him on at like 70 or 80 at the latest . England has so much depth and so many different options but Southgate is so scared of using his subs that the depth goes to waste
That’s actually how he plays. He’s a great striker on a counter attacking team as he’s great at either getting the ball, flicking the long pass onto another teammate, or getting the foul. He’s been superb for Brentford doing this.
Aggressive, earns cheap fouls, holds opponents, goes for every dirty trick he can get away with (and he usually does). Fucking loved having him on our team, and I'm gonna hate him when he leaves and does that shit to us lol.
A team can only have 1 unsubstituble player (player you'd never take off after 60 mins). Southgate is scared. He treats Foden, Bellingham, Kane and Saka all as players that can't be taken off midway through a game. He needs to pick one and the rest come off after 6-70 mins if needed
nah all kinds of managers do this kind of shit all the time, then complain about fixture congestion...
even with 5 subs players are still getting rinsed by managers
A 94th minute substitution for the team trailing 0-1 makes no sense whatsoever. It makes a lot of sense for Slovakia to make a sub there to waste a bit more time but England were in a massive hurry.
The worst bit was Slovakia did make a sub, like 30 seconds before us, so they wasted time with the sub and rather than chuck Toney on at the same time, we did a separate break in play to kill 15 seconds and put him on after
That's what Slovakia would have been expecting, you see. Bamboozled them into a false sense of security.... Is exactly what an arrogant prick like Southgate would try and say.
The only explanation I can think of is he was feeling charitable and wanted to give Toney a cap since he hadn’t made an appearance yet. I’m sure Gareth was totally resigned to the fact they were about to be out of the tournament.
I'm a Brentford fan and plenty critical of Toney but he was bang on to be disgusted. He was being sent on to get booed.
Did do the business though but Southgate owes him an apology and a thank you
he was sending him on to be available from the start of extra-time, knowing that an inevitable equaliser would have presented itself before then
this man operates on a different dimensional plane to you and I, all of time and space is a perfect circle to him, so don't question his methods
>I never felt tonight would be the end of our tournament"
Never? NEVER? You were down 1-0 until the 90+5th minute and you didn't consider the possiblity that 'hey, I might be going out?'
Come on man.
Southgate has some of the best attacking players in the world at his disposal yet England are absolutely toothless in attack.
They play awful, boring, defensive football just like their awful, boring and defensive manager.
They could easily win this tournament but they won't.
>some of the best attacking players
That's an understatement. They've got the best attacking lineup in the world right now. The best striker in the world, the premier league player of the season, cole palmer, saka and Jude playing as a number 10. The only other squad comparable to them would be the French forward lineup and Brazil. At least on paper. Yet Gareth makes them look like molten wax.
I saw a clip this morning of Richards, Shearer and Rio talking about how "(England) can win the tournamnent playing like this".
Even if they do win it - *which they won't -* Southgate's football is absolute dogshit.
Thank fuck he's not going to United.
La liga POTY
Premier League POTY
Top goalscorer in Europe
On top of that we have Palmer, Saka, Watkins.
And somehow we play like a relegation side when they come up against Manchester City.
We all were Gareth.
I was disgusted when you only made 1 sub in 80 minutes. You didn't change a single thing to win the match.
I was disgusted when you subbed off Mainoo, arguably the best player on the pitch at that point. You seem to have a habit of doing this when there are players who are not performing, like Foden or even Kane.
I was disgusted when you brought Toney on with 1 minute left. Way too late to make an impact but as it turns out, you were lucky Bellingham pulled a bicycle kick out of his arse to equalise and save your fucking job.
I was disgusted when, in the 2nd half of extra time, you decided to bring on Gallagher and Konsa and park the bus for 15 minutes. You never learn.
Honestly the thing that infuriated me the most was that he didnt even make the sub in the same sub break that Slovakia made theirs. He had Toney ready to come on and didnt even do it when Slovakia were using their subs to waste time, he wasted even more time himself by doing it afterwards.
He’s absolutely clueless.
I have been wondering if Southgate is ruining one of his better contributions as Wngland manager, in terms of squad harmony. Surely there must be some resentment building for players like Gordon, who despite the player in his position looking bad is not getting a sniff.
I know as fans we often say stuff like "I could do a better job than this guy!" But I actually think it's true with Southgate. Watching the match yesterday I genuinely couldn't believe the lack of changes he was making. Bellingham saved his incompetent arse
Im always like "this man is a professional head coach, he surely knows better than you, you have no clue what you are talking about, there surely are many reasons to keep him as a coach"
But he is just pure shite I guess... I am not even english and even I was hurting while I watched england games this time around.
Did the same thing with Grealish against France in the world cup, brought him on with 2 minutes left in added time while we were behind. This a player that has always looked good for England. I didn't agree with leaving Grealish behind this time since we need a natural LW, but fair enough we took Gordon and Eze. But now Gordon hasn't seen a single minute. The truth is Southgate is just a clueless manager that has no idea how to set teams up or make good subs.
What's baffling also is if you throw Toney on to create menace in the box, then surely you have to put Trent on too - one of the best crosser/passer. There was absolutely no reason to leave Walker on coz it wasn't like Slovakia was counter attacking
He's actually making me hate him.. I was a sympathizer before the tournament, he genuinely thinks we're all morons. Either that or he's an idiot beyond comprehension. WTF did I just listen to?
Sack him now, honestly would it have a negative effect??
Slovakia's legs had gone by the 50th minute.
If he'd have brought subs on at half time (though I have no idea why he took Mainoo off and left Rice and Foden on), we would have walked the game.
I said the exact same thing. Even at 60 minutes. The top managers, 1-0 down with 30 mins to go and seeing the opponent is starting to tire, and your team is not producing anything of note, would be making big changes.
Bring on a fresh Trent, and 2 of Toney, Watkins, Gordon, tell them to pressure the defence, make constant runs behind, and tell Trent to ping balls to them. There’s no way Slovakia would have kept them from scoring up until 90+ minutes.
Not sure why you would've taken Rice off? He does the job of two midfielders in terms of pressing and recovering the ball, is a threat from set pieces, and can bang them in from distance.
Foden is the one that really should've come off much earlier for either Watkins or Toney.
Only thing that bothered me yesterday in his game was that Rice was a little slow to get into the open space in the middle behind the attackers of Slovakia once a CB or Mainoo had the ball.
It’s not all on Rice as it’s obviously mostly on the tactics and the manager but there were so many times where we could’ve broken their forward-midfield line if we had someone in that open space between them.
So how are England fans feeling? I feel like they’re one step behind us. After we equalized Croatia it felt great, but it just felt like a prolonged life for dead man walking kind of situation. Played horribly but very special moment for their team.
So he’s trying to prove a point that regardless of when he brought him on, he made an impact in ET. Well if Bellingham didn’t pull a rabbit out of his ass in the 93’, subbing Toney on would have meant fuck all.
They should still sack this moron
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Please find shame.
It was clear England won't tiki-taka the ball into the net, Slovakia was so solid. The only way you beat that is good ol' Brexitball. Bring in Watkins and Toney and just whip crosses in. The fact that he was 1-0 down, out of the tournament as a favourite 2 minutes to go and brought in Toney tells you all you need to know about him as a manager.
I wonder why Gareth. I'm just as baffled as you
Especially because I thought he played very well. You could tell the team missed someone like him- it’s all good and dandy that Kane goes deep to play the pass (it’s a part of his game that I like), but if no one makes runs and is in the box, it’s useless- I felt like toney was good at that.
Watkins also did very well in his brief sub appearance in the groups, then we never saw him again. So I guess so long and thanks for the memories Ivan
It's funny how he give his subs very little chances to impress while some of the starting eleven can fuck up time and again and he will still play them
the press and community is relentlessly attacking southgate, and yet somehow i come away feeling that everyone is still being too kind. this isnt some poor little shop worker being bullied by the masses. this is the most overpaid person, in the most popular sport in the world, in the second biggest tournament of the cycle. england would do better with an empty chair. there are no words to describe how bad of a manager he is with the squad he has.
That game yesterday was one of the worst managed games ive ever seen. How did he manage to only make one sub until 90th minute with all the quality on the bench. He should be doing jude belllinghams laundry for the rest of his life.
Neglecting to use subs because he knows the change we need is managerial? You have to respect the man.
Do an Ivory Coast and change him mid-tournament to win the whole thing
Maybe Jude was doing the ballsack celebration to Gareth
The problem is that this lucky bastard actually won the game and now he gets to pretend he made the right changes at the right time and he is absolutely too arrogant and clueless to take any of the positives from that game and apply them in the next. This guy either thought that for nearly 90 minutes everything was going fine or he was too spineless to make an early change.
I think he’s far too stubborn. I cant remember the exact question but he was asked how he felt after the Slovenia game when the fans were booing and he said something like “I don’t care”. This is the worst football we’ve played and we only finished top of our group because the other 3 teams were just as bad. Germany scored more goals in the group stage than our entire group combined Whatever happens in the tournament he should leave at the end of it but you just know he’s gonna luck himself into another 2 year deal.
You have to respect the fact he's unbelievably jammy.
Its worse.....1 sub that was enforced at the time!
He's justified it by saying he knew that they would produce something, he must seek a career in fortune telling after he's booted
Completely agree. People arguing that he has got us a semi, a final, out the groups etc. The guy has had the easiest international runs ive ever seen a team get and has still made it so hard. This team alone has got us this far, as disjointed as it is. But the way they play just makes me think of 11 players, not a team. They look so disjointed and southgate has no clue what to do. He’s like a gambler spinning slots, the next one will win, the next one will win. He had gallagher get up, sit down, konsa get up sit down, watkins up back down, same for toney until the very last minute. He clearly shows he has no idea what to do and thats why he waited so late, he’s so indecisive is embarrassing. The players coming out in his defence, after, for the first time ive ever seen he slagged them off, is just bizarre. The fans deserve to be pissed of, its terrible, terrible football.
The defence of Southgate is based entirely on how shite we were before, where getting out of the groups (or even qualifying in the first place) was not guaranteed. I’d agree that argument has probably run its course now, and it’s only a lack of confidence from the FA in their ability to choose a successor that’s kept him in the job.
Yeah, I was a Southgate defender before this tournament, but now I firmly want him out. His time is done, even if we go on to somehow win it.
Worst thing it’s very realistic you still win. England probably has on paper the best NT in the world, its only weakness is the gameplan
People also forget luck plays a big factor in winning tournmanets, England had luck yesterday, just like France had luck when Kane missed the second penalty.
> The defence of Southgate is based entirely on how shite we were before, where getting out of the groups (or even qualifying in the first place) was not guaranteed. Ok but you guys are bloody England. Not some small Euro country who is just happy getting to groups, then even happier if you make it out of groups. You should be striving for more considering how damn good this squad is. I mean honestly, on paper, who beats this squad if you had a competent manager? Your defense has been largely very good this whole tournament (though against weaker opponents sure) and your attack has so much potential with a more balanced lineup.
I agree. But you have to understand what half a century of underperformance does to a nation’s mindset - Southgate was such an improvement when he took over. The expectations have adjusted in his time in the job, and that’s why the calls for him to go are growing stronger now.
It is bizarre. The whole world are screaming that the lineup isn't working. Kane is not performing, Foden is not working on the left, Tripper is not working at left back. Changing Trent for Gallagher for Mainoo and sticking your fingers in your ears will not fix all the problems. We need a natural left winger like Gordon, why hasn't he been seen other than for 5 minutes. Subs need to be made earlier. Watkins and Toney need to be given a chance. Walker is out of form and we have options. You could try Bellingham deeper so him and Foden aren't taking up the same positions. And worst of all not one single pissed up patron in the entire land is looking at these performances and pining for Kalvin Phillips, but he is. I genuinely think he has mental health issues, or is being blackmailed into some of these decisions. Maybe part of some deep betting scandal.
Yeah could be all that... Or he's just stuck in a system that doesn't work anymore for the players he has, and is a bad manager
Because Kalvin Phillips can't even take care of shoes for Declan Rice in that midfield. Simple.
I think it's a subconscious fear that if the subs do well, he will have more decisions to make. I don't think he even wants the headache of making the difficult decisions. That game was screaming for 3 subs at 60 minutes.
The game was screaming for 3 subs at HT
He acts as if he's scared to make a decision because he's panicking. It reminds me of doing exams in school.
you could see that God what if I take Kane off and we do better? Then what do I do?
Portugal is going through the same thing.
Kane has always played best with someone up next to him. Obviously, Son. At Bayern he has multiple fast runners to play to (Musiala, Sane) England right now have neither. Extra bonus insight into Southgate not having a fucking clue was after accidentally stumbling into something that worked, that he took then Kane off, so then Toney was the one isolated and we sat deeper and deeper.
The issue wasn’t taking Kane or Bellingham off, it was who he brought on in their place. He made changes with the intent of sitting behind the ball and not trying to play it. I do think it was the right call to take them off though, you can tell both players were utterly knackered.
Took Kane and Bellingham off for Gallagher and Konsa! Then no doubt wondered why that invited further pressure. Absolutely baffling.
The plan there was clearly just to sit in our own box and hold out for 10 minutes
> I felt like toney was good at that. I thought Toney was good at Kane's role so that Kane could actually make runs. See the second goal. He had some great long passes in extra time too, though he did fuck up that one chance by trying for goal instead of passing it to Eze
Yeah although tbf I think any striker goes for goal there, and he struck it like a missile
Ivan turned the game around by actually playing with personality
Could you say he had a bit of...."character" Brendan?
steady...
Such a basic understanding, he did a lot more than “bring personality”
He probably gave Southgate a nosebleed
Sometimes you just need someone who is prepared to take a gamble.
best number 9 in the world with genuinely competent wingers and midfielders around him, should be camping the box lmao
I mean, I agree he’s one of the best 9s in the world if not the best. But I’m just saying i do appreciate that part of his game (where if the ball isn’t arriving to him he drops in deep and looks for the pass)- I’d even say it’s one of the things that does make him one of the best 9s, because it means he’s not invisible if they stop the ball from getting to him (which is for example, a deficiency in haaland’s game).
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He had money on just riding the bench.
We’re disgusted at you in general gareth
Is Gareth actually a wanker? Cause when he did that I thought exactly the same thing, it was disrespectful and he’s lucky Jude produced what he did.
hes actually a mole sent in by scotland to give us something to laugh about. only downside so far is that hes turned out to be an extremely jammy bastard
All part of the Scottish masterplan - he's just the right mix of shit and success so England stagnate, but the FA won't fire him
He did the same with Gordon in the Slovenia game. Brought him on in the 89th minute after they’d just given something like 3 minutes added time. Tf is anybody supposed in that amount of time? He’s not a wanker, I just think he’s got his favourites and doesn’t really like switching things up even if it isn’t working.
If you watched his interview he said subbing in Toney was to introduce a bit of "chaos". Wtf was Toney supposed to do in that one minute cameo? That shows how clueless he was because we know for a fact no one would be able to do anything with that amout of time left on the pitch. Either that or he has no plan whatsoever, just hoping and praying Toney would bring in some sort of miracle in that one minute.
Exactly. He’s always quick to make changes to how we play when we have something to hold on to, but when we’re chasing a game or need a goal, he waits till the last possible moment to change things. It’s like he doesn’t want to change things too much in attack, because if he does and it works, he’s worried about us conceding or something, or that he’ll have to make more changes to protect the lead we’ve just gotten. Really negative mindset, that gets covered over by the quality of our players more than anything.
funny thing is gordon looked solid in that cameo too. these players are determined and passionate in spite of southgate
I thought it was just incompetence that was causing him to make the decision he makes but it might just be arrogance. Which is crazy because he hasn’t won shit.
If someone not fully qualified for a job gets the job, they might feel they're better than they actually are due to getting that job, it can lead to this mix of arrogance/incompetence.
At least Southgate hasn’t crashed the pound… *yet*
Years and years of his mates in the media blowing smoke up his arse and not daring to say a bad word about him has clearly gone to his head.
Hilarious because at the first sign of a discontent comment Southgate and the squad start crying about doubters and podcasts. These guys wouldn’t be able to hack it during the golden generation era
And literally the whole of the rest of the country being snide bastards
I'll always point to the Ben White situation to make the point that Southgate does not have your back if you're not in his first eleven. He does not respect the time or talent of squad players.
That was thought to be his strong point at the start as well, transitioning the squad from the U21 into the senior team, turns out he was just playing favourites all along.
Him not wanting to use other players sends a message to them that they're not good enough and he doesn't believe in them. Imagine being called up and your manager still doesn't think you're good enough to get in a team playing like that.
the hilarious part of it all is that White easily starts over Walker now if he got called up
And luckier that Toney then headed the ball to Kane. It was odd seeing Southgate cheer. Like watching someone you know bet against the home team but then is super happy they won so they can still go outside without getting punched.
Or Jadon Sancho in the 120th minute of the euros final 3 years ago just for his penality to miss
The fucking arrogance of him to act like it was all a part of the master plan.
Lucky mf too. Because Ivan Toney immediately had a huge presence when he was brought in. But now Southgate probably going to take the credit, “all part of the plan” Putting him on in the final minute is incredibly stupid and insulting.
then you'll see the next game he'll go with the same old formation and same players and toney wont even get a minute on the pitch.
Calling it now. No adjustments to the shape. Same horrible box of 2 CBs and 2 DMs who can’t get open for passes. Only change will be Konsa for Trippier.
Guehi suspended so we will either see Dunk or something weird like Walker at CB, Trent at RB
Oh Trent is never seeing the pitch again. He's fulfilled his purpose of being the scapegoat. He'll do something stupid like Trippier at CB and Watkins at RB.
He absolutely won’t get any credit, anyone who watched will know there was no plan whatsoever
History will see him in a positive light
Don't think so. The internet + social media allows the public to express their views more than the olden days. No England fan alive is going to forget how shit this tournament has been unless we have a miracle turnaround that the media are trying to will into existence.
He made one sub up to the 80th minute it was embarrassing.
A sub that was forced due to injury and meant that he had to play Saka at left back despite him being publicly against it (because he only brought one semi fit lb). First tactical sub in the 84th minute, after being down since the 25th minute and not having a single shot on target. It’s genuinely hard to express how baffling his management is, and how lucky we’ve been so far.
Sounds like an English Raymond Domenech
Difference is that with Domenech we imploded twice in group stages .
In SA in 2010, and what was the other time? I’m guessing Euros 2008 but my memory is hazy, can someone refresh me on the details?
Euro 2008 where he proposed to his girlfriend (the anchor of the post-game show) during the post-match interview
should have scored an OG right after equalizer to piss him off
haha, at some point i was actually wondering if some English players were purposely throwing the game so Gareths sacked
I hate him for 100 reasons, but one of the worst things is his arrogance. Never once has he admitted fault, and it's obvious why he never fixes or changes anything - because he thinks he's flawless. Cunt.
He's his own biggest critic apparently.... He's certainly not met the people I know then 🤣 I'd be more than happy to prove him wrong myself lol.
When the commentators said that I blurted out “is he fuck!”
As long as I'm alive, he's not his biggest critic.
It did feel like a “here’s a cap for you while we crash out of the tournament mate” gesture Southgate is fucking woeful and I hope England get a more positive, progressive coach after he’s ditched.
Who would that be, it certainly wouldn’t be anyone who is English.
Potter? Poch? Can’t think of anyone else of real value of the top of my head that’s available but I’d be happy with either of those.
Is there anything more English than a bit of Sean Dyche brexitball?
Dyche with this England team could actually get us playing some decent football. He's only known for playing a certain way because that's what he's had available. Even at Everton he's got them creating quite a few chances per match.
And if you’ve seen any of his in depth interviews he is very intelligent tactically
Yeah he at least has a game plan even when he does play defensively. Would probably know how to use this squad much better.
Pragmatic, works quickly, bald. Nobody better for it.
Please let us have something nice for once
I legitimately think he'd be good in international football. Pragmatic, very well organised, good team composition, gets teams working well quite quickly.
Pragmatic but with actual tactics would certainly be an upgrade
It's sad that Dyche gets memed hard in this regard, but he would genuinely do a good job. He's a very good, underrated coach. His football is seen as regressive due to the teams he's managed but he's played some excellent football at Everton and Burnley. Good tactician
I reckon he could tempt Howe from Newcastle. Poch is tricky as an Argentine but not impossible
If you watch interviews with Howe he talks about how the thing he enjoys most is working with players directly and improving them, he also talks about how he's the first one at the training ground and last one out. I can't see an international job tempting him with the approach he has to management/coaching.
Would be nice to have a manager who didn't completely fail at club level.
Potter hasn't failed at club level, did excellent in Sweden and then with Brighton, the short stint at Chelsea doesn't mean much in my eyes I think almost any manager would have failed in the situation he came into
His time at Chelsea does worry me abit, I know it was a poisoned chalice and a club that was heading in the wrong direction. But it did a potential weakness when dealing with big international stars. Maybe it'll work out and atleast he's not Lampard.
I think it more had to do with the size of the squad and the logistics of training with so many players who can potentially be in the first team, as apposed to the character of the players/stars. A manager with a clear tactical plan prefers a smaller squad because it's easier to drill everyone in training and create a cohesive unit with a clear hierarchy and rotating players is simpler.
Howe’s strength is coaching players and in game management is probably one of his less strong areas. Wouldn’t be a good fit for international football. Leagues ahead of Southgate still
Really? Potter seems like a guy that needs lots of time working with the team to establish his system. And he's not going to get that in international football. Poch has never been a great knockout tournament manager. He's something like 0-4 in FA Cup semi finals during his time in England and famously trophyless. Sure he reached the Champions League final that one season with Spurs but that run included crazy last minute moments in the quarters and semis. Before a limp display in the final. He did okay with Chelsea this season but I don't think he's the type of manager England needs.
No, Potter changed Brighton's style of play in one pre-season. Obviously takes longer to get good at a possession-based system after playing more defensive football, but it was amazing how quick Potter and his coaches got the Brighton players playing a different style. Potter would be my no1 pick for next England manager, most of the England players already play a style he likes, so dont think there would be an issue.
I think Potter is the best fit out of available managers. Eddie Howe is who I’d want out of the limited number of good level English managers. Outside of that maybe Tuchel? Who would you suggest?
No way Tuchel would come. We need to ask ourselves why we have Southgate in the first place and look at the managers we had before him. I've said it before - the England job is thankless. The press are relentless and expectations are sky high. The wages are decent but the names being thrown around will expect more.
Drive a truck full of money round Klopp’s house and see if he’s in? I know he’s on a break and it’s a nonstarter, but international football is a lot less work day-to-day and it never hurts to ask
I don’t see Klopp taking over any national team, especially not one that isn’t the German one.
same. if he ever takes someone over, it will be Germans.
There are coaches in the championship and lower leagues better than Southgate.
"Put the contract on the table.. “
He’ll get to the final, lose against the first team where they’re not favourites, and get rewarded with a new contract. Kind of joking with that statement, but I am curious what it would take for Southgate to be given a new contract. Winning the whole thing? Runners up? I can’t imagine anything less would be enough, considering how the bracket has opened up for England.
I don't think he's looking for a new contract. If he wins the whole thing I could imagine him bowing out while on top. If he finishes as runners up again I could see him and the FA thinking that's as far as he can take us and moving on to someone new
He's been in the job for eight years already and had to be talked into sticking around for this tournament, I could definitely see him calling it quits at the end, win or lose. I imagine the FA would offer him a new contract if he makes the semis, though.
I think he'll walk either way, his heart doesn't seem like it's in it anymore and Potter seems to be circling the job like a vulture
Did the same shit with Sancho and Rashford. "Go on we get a few mins left, win it now or on pens please". Useless throwing Toney on like that, but he played well. Subs should've been much earlier.
I hoped for you that by crashing out of the tournament this day would come, but since you turned it around, maybe he’ll stick around a bit more.
That's Sam Allardyce music.
Then in extra time Toney was a menace . If you wanted him to make a difference bring him on at like 70 or 80 at the latest . England has so much depth and so many different options but Southgate is so scared of using his subs that the depth goes to waste
He looked like he was playing mad. Throwing his body into every defender he could. Very good performance.
>like he was playing mad Appears to be the case he was actually mad lol
That’s actually how he plays. He’s a great striker on a counter attacking team as he’s great at either getting the ball, flicking the long pass onto another teammate, or getting the foul. He’s been superb for Brentford doing this.
Aggressive, earns cheap fouls, holds opponents, goes for every dirty trick he can get away with (and he usually does). Fucking loved having him on our team, and I'm gonna hate him when he leaves and does that shit to us lol.
A disgruntled Toney with fresh legs playing against an exhausted opposition, some of which are on yellows... not fun for them!
A team can only have 1 unsubstituble player (player you'd never take off after 60 mins). Southgate is scared. He treats Foden, Bellingham, Kane and Saka all as players that can't be taken off midway through a game. He needs to pick one and the rest come off after 6-70 mins if needed
Jesus, he shouldn't be making subs after 6 minutes...
Jesus usually only needs a sub after 3 days.
Normally you do this to waste time when you’re ahead, not when you’re behind 😂.
nah all kinds of managers do this kind of shit all the time, then complain about fixture congestion... even with 5 subs players are still getting rinsed by managers
A 94th minute substitution for the team trailing 0-1 makes no sense whatsoever. It makes a lot of sense for Slovakia to make a sub there to waste a bit more time but England were in a massive hurry.
The worst bit was Slovakia did make a sub, like 30 seconds before us, so they wasted time with the sub and rather than chuck Toney on at the same time, we did a separate break in play to kill 15 seconds and put him on after
That's what Slovakia would have been expecting, you see. Bamboozled them into a false sense of security.... Is exactly what an arrogant prick like Southgate would try and say.
The only explanation I can think of is he was feeling charitable and wanted to give Toney a cap since he hadn’t made an appearance yet. I’m sure Gareth was totally resigned to the fact they were about to be out of the tournament.
I'm a Brentford fan and plenty critical of Toney but he was bang on to be disgusted. He was being sent on to get booed. Did do the business though but Southgate owes him an apology and a thank you
he was sending him on to be available from the start of extra-time, knowing that an inevitable equaliser would have presented itself before then this man operates on a different dimensional plane to you and I, all of time and space is a perfect circle to him, so don't question his methods
The welbeck of managers
An insult to Welbeck!
https://youtu.be/F_ll92cXxOA?feature=shared
Bro has the time stone and saw this was the one way out of 11019376382736362 possibilities for England to make it through.
Now that I think about it, have we ever seen Southgate and Dr. Strange in the same room? 🤔
Not just Toney, Gareth. The only person who wasn’t disgusted was you.
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Trent and Gomez on the bench were caught making some interesting faces
I'd be fuckin livid if I was trent and watched that Walker performance without being brought on
2 games in a row Walker has been dire. I don’t even blame him either the man just needs a rest. Trent is way too good to rot on the bench anyway
>I never felt tonight would be the end of our tournament" Never? NEVER? You were down 1-0 until the 90+5th minute and you didn't consider the possiblity that 'hey, I might be going out?' Come on man.
I wish I could be this shit and deluded at my job and still show up to work the next day. This buffoon has no shame.
He truly believes he is some kind of elite manager it's baffling really.
Oceangate make better subs than Southgate
you stole this from twitter didn't you
100%
Jesus fucking Christ. You win.
It’s done the round in Twitter for a while now
Rest in pieces
A comment that's just as fresh and innovative as Southgate considering it's ripped straight from twitter lol
Southgate has some of the best attacking players in the world at his disposal yet England are absolutely toothless in attack. They play awful, boring, defensive football just like their awful, boring and defensive manager. They could easily win this tournament but they won't.
>some of the best attacking players That's an understatement. They've got the best attacking lineup in the world right now. The best striker in the world, the premier league player of the season, cole palmer, saka and Jude playing as a number 10. The only other squad comparable to them would be the French forward lineup and Brazil. At least on paper. Yet Gareth makes them look like molten wax.
I saw a clip this morning of Richards, Shearer and Rio talking about how "(England) can win the tournamnent playing like this". Even if they do win it - *which they won't -* Southgate's football is absolute dogshit. Thank fuck he's not going to United.
Was going to upvote until the last line.
I'm not sure I could handle us winning it and then hearing everyone endlessly praising Southgate. If we win, it's despite him.
It's a weird paradox because I'd fucking love to win it but I'd hate Southgate to win it
La liga POTY Premier League POTY Top goalscorer in Europe On top of that we have Palmer, Saka, Watkins. And somehow we play like a relegation side when they come up against Manchester City.
We all were Gareth. I was disgusted when you only made 1 sub in 80 minutes. You didn't change a single thing to win the match. I was disgusted when you subbed off Mainoo, arguably the best player on the pitch at that point. You seem to have a habit of doing this when there are players who are not performing, like Foden or even Kane. I was disgusted when you brought Toney on with 1 minute left. Way too late to make an impact but as it turns out, you were lucky Bellingham pulled a bicycle kick out of his arse to equalise and save your fucking job. I was disgusted when, in the 2nd half of extra time, you decided to bring on Gallagher and Konsa and park the bus for 15 minutes. You never learn.
My jaw was on the floor when he subbed out Mainoo. He was the only player who was keeping the ball and going forward.
Why did I laugh out loud when I read that
Honestly the thing that infuriated me the most was that he didnt even make the sub in the same sub break that Slovakia made theirs. He had Toney ready to come on and didnt even do it when Slovakia were using their subs to waste time, he wasted even more time himself by doing it afterwards. He’s absolutely clueless.
The most hilarious thing about it was he brought an attacker for an attacker.
I have been wondering if Southgate is ruining one of his better contributions as Wngland manager, in terms of squad harmony. Surely there must be some resentment building for players like Gordon, who despite the player in his position looking bad is not getting a sniff.
Obviously, it was possibly the worst substitution I've ever seen.
I would be disgusted all the time if this guy was my manager.
Did you know that Southgate made this sub at 90+3 minute to waste time
I know as fans we often say stuff like "I could do a better job than this guy!" But I actually think it's true with Southgate. Watching the match yesterday I genuinely couldn't believe the lack of changes he was making. Bellingham saved his incompetent arse
Im always like "this man is a professional head coach, he surely knows better than you, you have no clue what you are talking about, there surely are many reasons to keep him as a coach" But he is just pure shite I guess... I am not even english and even I was hurting while I watched england games this time around.
Did the same thing with Grealish against France in the world cup, brought him on with 2 minutes left in added time while we were behind. This a player that has always looked good for England. I didn't agree with leaving Grealish behind this time since we need a natural LW, but fair enough we took Gordon and Eze. But now Gordon hasn't seen a single minute. The truth is Southgate is just a clueless manager that has no idea how to set teams up or make good subs.
He was pretty good even though he hardly played. But yes, definitely a bit disrespectful.
Southgate to United give everyone other than United fans what we want.
Is he that stupid and dense or is this some kind of an act? Legit question.
What's baffling also is if you throw Toney on to create menace in the box, then surely you have to put Trent on too - one of the best crosser/passer. There was absolutely no reason to leave Walker on coz it wasn't like Slovakia was counter attacking
I can see why White didn't want to play for this fraud
He's actually making me hate him.. I was a sympathizer before the tournament, he genuinely thinks we're all morons. Either that or he's an idiot beyond comprehension. WTF did I just listen to? Sack him now, honestly would it have a negative effect??
Slovakia's legs had gone by the 50th minute. If he'd have brought subs on at half time (though I have no idea why he took Mainoo off and left Rice and Foden on), we would have walked the game.
I said the exact same thing. Even at 60 minutes. The top managers, 1-0 down with 30 mins to go and seeing the opponent is starting to tire, and your team is not producing anything of note, would be making big changes. Bring on a fresh Trent, and 2 of Toney, Watkins, Gordon, tell them to pressure the defence, make constant runs behind, and tell Trent to ping balls to them. There’s no way Slovakia would have kept them from scoring up until 90+ minutes.
Not sure why you would've taken Rice off? He does the job of two midfielders in terms of pressing and recovering the ball, is a threat from set pieces, and can bang them in from distance. Foden is the one that really should've come off much earlier for either Watkins or Toney.
Only thing that bothered me yesterday in his game was that Rice was a little slow to get into the open space in the middle behind the attackers of Slovakia once a CB or Mainoo had the ball. It’s not all on Rice as it’s obviously mostly on the tactics and the manager but there were so many times where we could’ve broken their forward-midfield line if we had someone in that open space between them.
DO NOT CLAIM YOU PLANNED THIS ALL OUT!!! CLOWN!!!
Rightly so. Gordon was probably rooting for a loss so he can end this nightmare.
You bet your ass he was.
Same
He should be, Jude bailed you out. I swear this guy is just an empty shell with no capacity to reflect and have a little introspection.
The whole nation was, Southgate got lucky and his crap tactics got exposed, again.
No shit Gareth, anybody would feel insulted by that.
So how are England fans feeling? I feel like they’re one step behind us. After we equalized Croatia it felt great, but it just felt like a prolonged life for dead man walking kind of situation. Played horribly but very special moment for their team.
So he should be. Especially after changing the game. Back to Kane upfront on his own at the weekend.
So he’s trying to prove a point that regardless of when he brought him on, he made an impact in ET. Well if Bellingham didn’t pull a rabbit out of his ass in the 93’, subbing Toney on would have meant fuck all. They should still sack this moron