I used to work at a restaurant. Lady brought in two “service dogs”
Dog #2 was freaking out the entire time. Loud crowded restaurant. It got to the point where dog #2 started attacking dog #1 snd we finally asked her to leave.
I felt bad for the dog.
And also remember that even if the dog IS a legitimate service dog - or if the owner insists that it is - if they are disruptive, they can still be kicked out.
"You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded."
99.9% of the time, actual service dogs are trained well and aren't going to act up, but even in the rare case that one does, you can tell the owner they have to take it out.
[Per the ADA, ](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/#:~:text=A.%20In%20situations,the%20person%E2%80%99s%20disability.) you can absolutely ask the following in the US:
>(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
It is in the policy manual. It is because the 2nd question is there to only inform you of what the dog might be signaling in the event of an emergency so that you can help them. However, as you can see in the ridiculousness of these comments, people assume that it makes them the disability police and a temporary doctor and use it to try and subjectively determine whether or not a person answered the question to their satisfaction so they can kick them out and creates a liability for Starbucks to be sued. There is nothing in the ADA that says the 2nd question even has to be answered by the customer because in some cases it inherently reveals the person's disability (such as telling them the dog is trained to sense blood sugar levels pretty much reveals that a person is a diabetic). There is also nothing in the ADA that states what an acceptable answer to "what tasks or work the dog is trained to perform" would even be because there isn't one - it's different based on the person's needs and not there to be a pre-screening question that gives a 16 year old barista the power to kick them out, thank god. It's mind boggling to me that people are even upset about these animals and ensuring they never step foot in the door when the ADA already gives them the ability to kick them out if the dog is not behaving or exhibiting the specific exclusionary behaviors in the act. Everyone wants to feel powerful and ensure that the few people that are faking a disability aren't "getting one over on them", when in reality, does it really make a difference in your day? I can tell you that it makes a pretty big difference in a disabled person's day when they have to try and argue and justify their ailment to a barista who is already in defensive mode with a purpose of trying to kick them out before the customer even opens their mouth.
Yeah but if they aren't well behaved you can ask them to leave even if they say the "magic" words. Someone had a "service" dog at my store that would bark at anyone who walked in the door. Time to get out Beverly.
You can dig deeper with harder questions :) if these trash people can answer the Ada approved questions whatever they earned it I guess. However in my 2 decades of dealing with this I've had one person be able to answer the questions correctly.
There are only two questions anyone is legally allowed to ask: "Is your dog a service animal?" and "What task does it perform?"
However, there are some rules service animals must abide by. They must be leashed, they must be on the ground, and they must be behaved (at the owner's side, not wandering around or laying in aisles 5 ft away from the owner).
So even if the person lies about the status of the animal you have to power to tell them the above.
No, you’re assuming you do and adding language to the ADA in your head that doesn’t actually exist in the act at all. You’re just spreading misinformation.
I said read the fuckng ADA. You can ask more than.
Is that s service pet. There are following questions you're allowed to ask that these Karen's never know rhe answers and yes you can deny entry and service to these folks.
I have read the ADA. I have a disability and am well aware of what it says. There are only 2 questions you can ask. It doesn't matter that the ADA says you can ask the second question about what tasks or work the animal is trained to perform. Starbucks policy says that you can only ask the first question, and that's to protect people with disabilities from people like you who think they are the service animal police with no authority to do so. Can you tell me where specifically in the ADA it says what would be an acceptable answer to the question "what tasks or work is the animal trained to perform?" or where it states that a person is required to even answer that question? You can't, because it doesn't say it anywhere in the ADA. So I suggest you read the fucking ADA, but good luck with that because I don't think you're even capable of reading based on the spelling and grammar you just completely botched in your comment.
This is so wrong on so many levels. The ADA does not even specify what an acceptable answer to the 2nd question is. It is there so you can inform yourself of what the dog may be communicating if that person has an emergency so you CAN HELP THEM. It is not there to make you the judge and jury to determine subjectively whether or not the person answered the question to your satisfaction. There is nothing in the ADA that states a person is required to answer that question even though you can ask it, and there is no enforcement mechanism for you to kick them out besides what is explicitly stated (such as misbehaving, sitting somewhere other than the floor, or eating off the table). And this is a GOOD THING - people with disabilities should be protected from discrimination, and it's unfortunate that people fake them, but the ADA is there in the best interest of people with disabilities and will always put the rights of the person above the business, and there is nothing you or I can do about it. There is a reason Starbucks policy doesn't even allow you to ask what tasks or duties the dog is trained to perform even though it's legally allowed - so they can avoid situations like this. So when someone with an animal comes in, you can advise them that animals are not allowed inside, and when they say it's a service animal, that's where the conversation ends and you go about your day until the dog actually exhibits one of the exclusionary behaviors listed in the ADA. It's kind of mind blowing seeing this topic show up more and more recently on this subreddit and the comments just being filled with complete misinformation, opinions, and emotions.
It’s crazy to me this person is proud of being the dog police. Really making the world a better place harassing people with service animals just so you can maybe potentially catch somebody lying about it so they don’t have to leave their poor dog in the car. Really making the world a better place. I also love how they wrote “you can dig deeper with harder questions” lmao no the fuck you cannot ask people “harder questions” about their disability
Well it’s not that simple. Even if you know it’s not a service dog, if the customer says yes you can’t pursue it further. Plus, legally there are questions you can’t ask.
This, I work at another coffee shop and some chick came in with a puppy, like looks like it was JUST old enough to be sold. Saying “this is my service puppy” no collar, no leash,and like a said just old enough to leave the mother. I called her out for the blatant lie and she had the nerve to argue with me by saying “well I just got him 2 days ago he hasn’t had time to be trained” and gave me a look like she just won. It was pretty ridiculous, but she did end up having to leave and said she would sue us
I love when people say they will sue us over some nonsense they obviously wouldn’t win, like “ma’am, if you have the time and resources to get into a legal battle with Starbucks, be my guest…”
Sometimes I just wanna be like “go ahead doesn’t come out of my paycheck anyways buddy” we’ve had 4 people just this year actually bring lawsuits against our store for various reasons they all get dropped.
One man slipped and fell while climbing over a snow bank instead of on the walk way because “I’m in hurry to get to work” and tried to sue us. We took photos of our walk ways, sent a video of the fall and videos of our employees shoveling and salting the walk ways thru out the day
\*\*all of this advice is US specific\*\* we had a customer like this who was very rude, and i finally got so fed up i researched what we legally could and could not do. you can legally ask "what service or task has this animal been trained to perform?" DO NOT ask about the customer's disability, anything about the customer. only ask that exact question. if they don't have an answer, or won't answer, you can legally deny them entry. the customer doesn't have to be super specific, but they have to say something more than "service animal," such as "medical alert," "retrieving items," "assisting with tasks" etc. "emotional support" is NOT a service or task and you can deny entry. you can also deny entry if the dog is posing a health and safety concern for other customers. barking repeatedly (not just once or twice) or any aggressive behavior like growling is grounds for kicking that customer out, regardless of whether that animal is a service animal or not. service dogs don't whine or growl, they respond immediately to their owner's commands, they stay beside their owner at all times outside of specific tasks, and they don't get distracted or sniff around (unless they're detecting allergens, which the owner will be able to tell you is a service they're trained to do). if i saw a dog doing these things, ESPECIALLY putting their nose on anything, i'd ask them to leave.
some baristas feel bad for denying entry, or leaving them outside when its hot, but i find it really gross to bring a dog into a place that serves food, especially when it's a tiny dog they're holding up at the bar. dogs slobber and shed, they lick things. i don't know how frequently the owner bathes them. i will happily provide a water bowl and pup cups galore, and i'll wave at them through the drive thru, it'll make my day actually. but unless your dog is truly a service dog accommodating a disability, don't bring them inside. we're serving food, people.
so yea, after i read up on ADA i explained everything to my shift and next time that customer came in i asked that question. she stumbled over her answer for a moment before saying "i don't have to answer that" and i said "i'm sorry ma'am, but unfortunately you will have to leave your dog outside. you are welcome to come through the drive thru line for service." she threw a fit about how this was illegal, her dog was a service dog, we can't ask for her medical information, how dare we deny her service, she was going to sue us. i calmly explained that my goal was to protect the health and safety of all of our customers, that i was asking specifically about the task her dog performs and not her medical information, and that under ADA we were able to deny entry, and that she was welcome to come back inside without her dog or come through the drive thru line. she kept throwing a fit but she left. one of my favorite shifts i've ever worked.
i 100% agree this is how things *should* work, but please be aware that per sbux policy you’re only actually allowed to ask “is that a service dog”, no follow-up questions.
Starbucks policy doesn't ever supersede the LAW. By law, you are allowed to ask what the dog is trained to do. If the dog isn't trained, then you aren't breaking any laws by asking them to leave.
You can ask those 2 questions legally, but there is nothing in the ADA that states a person is required to answer those 2 questions. The question about the tasks the animal is trained to perform is allowed to be asked so you can be informed of what the dog may be signaling while the person is in your business so you can provide the right assistance in the event of an emergency. It is not there to make you the judge and jury to decide whether a person is disabled or not based on your subjective judgement of whether they answered the questions to your satisfaction (there's nothing in the ADA that even indicates what an acceptable answer to that question would be), and the person can decide not to answer you because in some instances, saying the task the dog is trained to perform will inherently reveal information about their disability that they don't have to reveal. There is no enforcement mechanism in the ADA for you exclude the service dog or person from the business unless that dog is misbehaving, sitting somewhere other than on the floor, or eating off the table as the ADA explicitly states. The only reason you would be able to exclude them if they fail to answer the first question (whether or not it's a service dog) is because there are already other health codes that exclude all non-service animals from a restaurant and that gives you the power of enforcement for that single question. The ADA is in place to protect people with disabilities and gives all people the benefit of the doubt so that people with disabilities do not face discrimination, it is not there to make a Starbucks barista the decision maker over whether a person is disabled or not. This is likely the reason why Starbucks policy says that you can't even ask the second question, even though it's legally allowed, because many people overstep their authority or read into the ADA and apply their own assumptions (of which none are explicitly stated in the actual ADA).
So I'm not sure why people make such a big deal over this like it's their life's work to stop people from faking disabilities. The ADA will ALWAYS be there to put the best interests of the person above the business because that ensures people with disabilities don't face discrimination. Are there people who fake disabilities to bring in their animal? Of course! Is there anything you or I can do about it? No! Only congress can change the laws (and that's a good thing! a 16 year old shouldn't be pretending to be a doctor while working at Starbucks). So when someone comes in with an animal, and they say it's a service animal, that's where the conversation ends and you move on about your day. There's no point to create a confrontation with the customer because you will not affect any real change to the overall problem. If the animal exhibits one of the explicitly stated exclusionary behaviors in the ADA, then you can ask them to leave.
We had a dog with a vest on that was barking loudly anytime someone walked in or out of our lobby. It was so annoying and very obvious it wasn't a trained service dog, but we couldn't do anything about it, and the woman didn't even try to soothe her dog.
This happens a lot with a well loved regular at my new cafe job, everyone else is friends with him and loves the dog but the chihuahua barks all the time and is a nightmare, so im worried for the safety of other legit service animals but im scared i cant speak out because its a small team of everyone on the offenders side…
I just commented on another post today about how a young woman next to me told an Amtrak conductor that her little shih tzu she had on her lap was her service dog. This dog was facing the aisle and I was at the window, so its little butthole was right up against my leg. Fucking gross, and I like dogs.
The conductor told her if it was a service animal (which she said was for emotional needs) it needed to stay on the ground between her feet and not get in the aisle. She moved it to the ground for five seconds and when he left she put it back on her lap and was like “I can’t deal with this.” Like me either, bestie, but you don’t see me kicking your ass rn. :))) I’m not a confrontational person, but I was hour 8 into my trip and was teetering on the edge.
Eventually a row opened up and she and her friend moved there and the dog was back on her lap. Entitled assholes everywhere now.
Edit: sorry I went so off topic!
I think a lot of people confuse emotional support animals with service animals. And in some cases, the animal isn't even officially registered as an emotional support animal, the person has just assigned them that title themselves. And of course, emotional support animals are not trained any specific way, unlike service animals who know how to behave themselves, so a lot of the emotional support animals will be acting up and barking at strangers, etc.
You don't have to register an emotional support animal. All those online registration things are scams.
You do need a letter or something from a mental health professional that works with you, that serves almost like a 'prescription' if you want to avail yourself of protections in housing.
No it isn’t. HIPAA restricts providers from disclosing or releasing a patients medical information/history. Coffee shops are not bound by HIPAA and it is never a HIPAA violation to ask if an animal is a service animal.
It is per store policy.asking what the dog is for is basically asking for a diagnosis.
I'm happy that we don't have many dogs in store. I think 1 in over a year.
This is why my middle kid (whose psychiatrist said a psychiatric service dog would be a worthwhile investment) is on the fence about it. So many people claim “service dog” or “emotional support animal” that are obviously not and my kid doesn’t want to deal with backlash since their disability is mental and not physical.
I really hate that it’s come to this too. They shouldn’t have to be on the fence about getting something that would support them. I get having problems, my brain all wonky itself, and I know not everything is visible disability wise. It’s just so frustrating that entitled people think it’s okay to lie because they’re too lazy to find a dog sitter or hell, leave it at home for a bit while you’re out. I get attachment issues too, I have a cat that’s that way, but there’s better ways to handle attachment issues that literally breaking rules
legally you can ask what tasks the animal does in order to verify its status as a working animal. they don’t need to be marked. i bring my service dog to starbucks sometimes and have run into issues with other people’s non-service dogs quite a lot. i’ve also had to start accepting pup cups only if we’re leaving otherwise she gets too excited and breaks task. those could help identify?
also, even if it is a tasking SD if it’s doing anything that causes a disturbance you can ask them to leave. even if they try to report you to the ADA — which most folks don’t know about, it’s a little too “legal” for a lot of ppl — if you said you asked the appropriate questions & the animal was creating a disturbance i don’t believe there would be an issue. i’ve never done that but worth mentioning maybe.
Omg okay! So I work in a licensed store, where we do allow dogs as long as they're well behaved. A woman was in line with her dog and allowed another person to pet him and pick him up and it was honestly really cute. She orders, I make her drink and hand it off. She says "excuse me, at the other Starbucks down the street (a corporate store) they kicked me out for having a dog in there and I explained that he's a service dog and I have a card to prove it but they kicked me out anyway." Miss maam - that is not a service dog and we both know it. Not wearing any kind of service gear that would differentiate him, allowing other people to pet a "working animal," and there is no official registration card or anything like that (at least in the US). Not only did she try lying to that store, but she tried lying to me. What would she benefit from that? My store allows all dogs and wasn't gonna kick her out, but that put a bad taste in my mouth
nope. i've trained a service dog for my MIL who has anxiety and ptsd. she's accused of him not being a service dog anywhere. if i can tell that your dog is a pet and not a service dog after you've claimed it to be, i'm going to ask what task it's trained to perform.
there is no paperwork or "proof" of an animal being a service animal, but as employees anywhere (in most states, at least,) you can ask the customer what task their dog is trained to perform, and you absolutely still have the right to ask them and their pet to leave if it's obvious it isn't a service dog or it's causing issues within your store. anyone that does that is immediately being asked to leave from my store, or at least remove their pet. this goes for ESA's too as they literally do not have the same public access rights as service animals
In Seattle, people tend to bring their "service dogs" along everywhere now. Drives a friend of mine up the wall that he has to tolerate this health infraction. He complains to the managers when he can, but their attitude has become increasingly loose. I've also noticed many supermarkets and mini-markets have downgraded their pet service signs.
We have a woman who comes in with her service dog. She's a small, terrier mix. She has her harness that says service dog and a bandana as well. Other people come in with their dogs, and we let them know service animals only. They immediately ask why she gets to have her dog. Just because she isn't a big dog. Then, they try to claim their dog is a service dog. You basically admitted it wasn't when you argued about the other ladies' dog. Just grow up.
what you need to do is that if they say it’s a service dog ask for documentation, they should always have documentation and if not offer for them to wait outside and make a mobile order or go over to take their order
It’s seen as discrimination. Making disabled people jump through more hoops just to live their lives is unfair. The current laws (kick out any out of control dogs) would work great if people would just *enforce them*!
i get that, but here in the uk it’s just like if you want to bring a dog into a building which isn’t supposed to be unless they fit into this criteria, then there needs to be some form of proof of it fitting into said criteria. at my work i’ve had people coming in with like chiwawas in prams asking to come in and we have been like no because it’s clearly not a guide dog and if they try and lie saying they are we ask for some form of proof, which they aren’t obligated to carry but are supposed to expect to maybe get asked in certain places. it’s a shame that americans are so quick to be like i’m going to sue you the second they may not get their way.
I think you’re understanding how easy it is to fake such proof. The dog’s behavior and training is the proof. Even if a service dog is having a bad day, it will be obvious that the handler is trying to get the dog back under control.
Our country is also so much bigger than yours is. Some of our states are bigger than an entire European country. It would be an unnecessary hardship on disabled people to have to travel to get this certification. Plus it would be humiliating to have to prove details of my disability just to buy food at the grocery store.
pls if someone’s going to that much effort to fake documentation i don’t care anymore i don’t get payed enough to enforce the law i just ask and if they do then im cool with that 😭😭
It’s so easy here. You pay $50-200 and get this official looking certification (which holds absolutely no legal weight) which no one knows is fake because no one knows the laws or trains the employees on them. Then I get denied access with my medical alert dog because “the other dogs have certification”.
ah, see in the UK we do have documentation to prevent dicks doing stuff like walking in with dogs and saying “um the law says i can because i say im disabled 🤓☝️” most service dogs here also have a like little vest on that says service animal too
Thing is, they don’t have to have a specific medical issue to have a service animal. Any pet can be a support animal if you get the certificate. Stop being mad about petty things. There’s a lot more important things to be mad about.
yes they do. this prevents people with ACTUAL service dogs from being able to go out in public without being worried their dog is gonna be attacked by some untrained dog. yes fake service dogs are a huge issue, especially when 99.9% of the time they’re not trained at all. you’re so ignorant.
Well actually, I think any dog can be a service dog if the owner registers it as one. Idk if that’s a thing everywhere, but in my province, regular house animals can be registered as “emotional support animals” so the owner can take them where they like
From [ada.gov](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/) themselves:
“Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? **No.** Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.”
there is no registration for a service dog. just training. and registering an animal as an esa doesn't give it public access rights. it's still the same as a pet. those companies that people are registering their dogs under are scams because that little "esa" card doesn't change anything if the dog has no service training.
Those are two different types of certifications in the US! Service animals are trained to provide a true service like a seeing eye dog for example. Emotional support animals just hang out with you for your comfort basically.
You don't need any sort of certification for a service animal. Though you can get some training certificates if you want to.
Your service animal has to be capable of working without getting distracted and be trained to assist someone with a disability, but there are no registrations or things like that.
And there shouldn't be, because service animals are so expensive, not covered by insurance, and even charities that help people get dogs are very limited. So, many people will work to train their own service dogs, and laws vary, but most states grant service dogs in training the same access rights as fully trained ones.
But it's just good manners to be sure your dog has basically learned how to quietly exist without distraction before taking one out into public for that next step.
(I am hoping to one day train my own service dog, since getting help with getting service dogs for PTSD if you're not a veteran is nearly impossible.)
I wasn’t aware! Thank you!
I have an emotional support animal and had to previously get her certified for flights. It’s no longer possible to fly with ESA on the airlines I use though…
I used to work at a restaurant. Lady brought in two “service dogs” Dog #2 was freaking out the entire time. Loud crowded restaurant. It got to the point where dog #2 started attacking dog #1 snd we finally asked her to leave. I felt bad for the dog.
Learn to ask the correct questions and deny service when they refuse to answer. Please managers teach your staff better about this shit.
And also remember that even if the dog IS a legitimate service dog - or if the owner insists that it is - if they are disruptive, they can still be kicked out. "You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded." 99.9% of the time, actual service dogs are trained well and aren't going to act up, but even in the rare case that one does, you can tell the owner they have to take it out.
There are certain questions you cannot ask
Yep but the ones you can ask and deny service for are very straightforward. Just gotta know it.
[Per the ADA, ](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/#:~:text=A.%20In%20situations,the%20person%E2%80%99s%20disability.) you can absolutely ask the following in the US: >(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
Thanks for the info. The key is definitely in the wording.
Per Starbucks policy, you absolutely cannot ask the 2nd question.
wait, really? why not?
It is in the policy manual. It is because the 2nd question is there to only inform you of what the dog might be signaling in the event of an emergency so that you can help them. However, as you can see in the ridiculousness of these comments, people assume that it makes them the disability police and a temporary doctor and use it to try and subjectively determine whether or not a person answered the question to their satisfaction so they can kick them out and creates a liability for Starbucks to be sued. There is nothing in the ADA that says the 2nd question even has to be answered by the customer because in some cases it inherently reveals the person's disability (such as telling them the dog is trained to sense blood sugar levels pretty much reveals that a person is a diabetic). There is also nothing in the ADA that states what an acceptable answer to "what tasks or work the dog is trained to perform" would even be because there isn't one - it's different based on the person's needs and not there to be a pre-screening question that gives a 16 year old barista the power to kick them out, thank god. It's mind boggling to me that people are even upset about these animals and ensuring they never step foot in the door when the ADA already gives them the ability to kick them out if the dog is not behaving or exhibiting the specific exclusionary behaviors in the act. Everyone wants to feel powerful and ensure that the few people that are faking a disability aren't "getting one over on them", when in reality, does it really make a difference in your day? I can tell you that it makes a pretty big difference in a disabled person's day when they have to try and argue and justify their ailment to a barista who is already in defensive mode with a purpose of trying to kick them out before the customer even opens their mouth.
It’s not hard to say “yes they’re service dogs. Cardiac” or whatever just to lie
Yeah but if they aren't well behaved you can ask them to leave even if they say the "magic" words. Someone had a "service" dog at my store that would bark at anyone who walked in the door. Time to get out Beverly.
You can dig deeper with harder questions :) if these trash people can answer the Ada approved questions whatever they earned it I guess. However in my 2 decades of dealing with this I've had one person be able to answer the questions correctly.
Would love a list of the questions you recommend to ask! 😺
There are only two questions anyone is legally allowed to ask: "Is your dog a service animal?" and "What task does it perform?" However, there are some rules service animals must abide by. They must be leashed, they must be on the ground, and they must be behaved (at the owner's side, not wandering around or laying in aisles 5 ft away from the owner). So even if the person lies about the status of the animal you have to power to tell them the above.
Somebody was fighting with me saying that service dogs are allowed to be held in stores but I was told they are not. Which is right?
that’s not true, in the US service dogs are permitted to be off-leash if necessary.
www.ada.gov or your manager I'm sure knows :)
Weird cause to spend two decades fighting for.
Weird I have never had customers run me over like yall ever. Let alone a daily basis. I know my ADA laws.
No, you’re assuming you do and adding language to the ADA in your head that doesn’t actually exist in the act at all. You’re just spreading misinformation.
I said read the fuckng ADA. You can ask more than. Is that s service pet. There are following questions you're allowed to ask that these Karen's never know rhe answers and yes you can deny entry and service to these folks.
I have read the ADA. I have a disability and am well aware of what it says. There are only 2 questions you can ask. It doesn't matter that the ADA says you can ask the second question about what tasks or work the animal is trained to perform. Starbucks policy says that you can only ask the first question, and that's to protect people with disabilities from people like you who think they are the service animal police with no authority to do so. Can you tell me where specifically in the ADA it says what would be an acceptable answer to the question "what tasks or work is the animal trained to perform?" or where it states that a person is required to even answer that question? You can't, because it doesn't say it anywhere in the ADA. So I suggest you read the fucking ADA, but good luck with that because I don't think you're even capable of reading based on the spelling and grammar you just completely botched in your comment.
This is so wrong on so many levels. The ADA does not even specify what an acceptable answer to the 2nd question is. It is there so you can inform yourself of what the dog may be communicating if that person has an emergency so you CAN HELP THEM. It is not there to make you the judge and jury to determine subjectively whether or not the person answered the question to your satisfaction. There is nothing in the ADA that states a person is required to answer that question even though you can ask it, and there is no enforcement mechanism for you to kick them out besides what is explicitly stated (such as misbehaving, sitting somewhere other than the floor, or eating off the table). And this is a GOOD THING - people with disabilities should be protected from discrimination, and it's unfortunate that people fake them, but the ADA is there in the best interest of people with disabilities and will always put the rights of the person above the business, and there is nothing you or I can do about it. There is a reason Starbucks policy doesn't even allow you to ask what tasks or duties the dog is trained to perform even though it's legally allowed - so they can avoid situations like this. So when someone with an animal comes in, you can advise them that animals are not allowed inside, and when they say it's a service animal, that's where the conversation ends and you go about your day until the dog actually exhibits one of the exclusionary behaviors listed in the ADA. It's kind of mind blowing seeing this topic show up more and more recently on this subreddit and the comments just being filled with complete misinformation, opinions, and emotions.
It’s crazy to me this person is proud of being the dog police. Really making the world a better place harassing people with service animals just so you can maybe potentially catch somebody lying about it so they don’t have to leave their poor dog in the car. Really making the world a better place. I also love how they wrote “you can dig deeper with harder questions” lmao no the fuck you cannot ask people “harder questions” about their disability
Also, no you legally fucking can’t “dig deeper” into someone’s disability lmfaoooo
The comment section went over your head. Read more. Resds one comment, runs to keyboard. Rawr.
Did you just say rawr in 2024
The people who lie about it aren't smart enough to follow through with the lie completely.
Well it’s not that simple. Even if you know it’s not a service dog, if the customer says yes you can’t pursue it further. Plus, legally there are questions you can’t ask.
This, I work at another coffee shop and some chick came in with a puppy, like looks like it was JUST old enough to be sold. Saying “this is my service puppy” no collar, no leash,and like a said just old enough to leave the mother. I called her out for the blatant lie and she had the nerve to argue with me by saying “well I just got him 2 days ago he hasn’t had time to be trained” and gave me a look like she just won. It was pretty ridiculous, but she did end up having to leave and said she would sue us
I love when people say they will sue us over some nonsense they obviously wouldn’t win, like “ma’am, if you have the time and resources to get into a legal battle with Starbucks, be my guest…”
Sometimes I just wanna be like “go ahead doesn’t come out of my paycheck anyways buddy” we’ve had 4 people just this year actually bring lawsuits against our store for various reasons they all get dropped. One man slipped and fell while climbing over a snow bank instead of on the walk way because “I’m in hurry to get to work” and tried to sue us. We took photos of our walk ways, sent a video of the fall and videos of our employees shoveling and salting the walk ways thru out the day
Sue the health department is my answer.
My sister put her puppy in a stroller with a blanket. She said he slept the whole time they were inside drinking coffee.🤦♀️
\*\*all of this advice is US specific\*\* we had a customer like this who was very rude, and i finally got so fed up i researched what we legally could and could not do. you can legally ask "what service or task has this animal been trained to perform?" DO NOT ask about the customer's disability, anything about the customer. only ask that exact question. if they don't have an answer, or won't answer, you can legally deny them entry. the customer doesn't have to be super specific, but they have to say something more than "service animal," such as "medical alert," "retrieving items," "assisting with tasks" etc. "emotional support" is NOT a service or task and you can deny entry. you can also deny entry if the dog is posing a health and safety concern for other customers. barking repeatedly (not just once or twice) or any aggressive behavior like growling is grounds for kicking that customer out, regardless of whether that animal is a service animal or not. service dogs don't whine or growl, they respond immediately to their owner's commands, they stay beside their owner at all times outside of specific tasks, and they don't get distracted or sniff around (unless they're detecting allergens, which the owner will be able to tell you is a service they're trained to do). if i saw a dog doing these things, ESPECIALLY putting their nose on anything, i'd ask them to leave. some baristas feel bad for denying entry, or leaving them outside when its hot, but i find it really gross to bring a dog into a place that serves food, especially when it's a tiny dog they're holding up at the bar. dogs slobber and shed, they lick things. i don't know how frequently the owner bathes them. i will happily provide a water bowl and pup cups galore, and i'll wave at them through the drive thru, it'll make my day actually. but unless your dog is truly a service dog accommodating a disability, don't bring them inside. we're serving food, people. so yea, after i read up on ADA i explained everything to my shift and next time that customer came in i asked that question. she stumbled over her answer for a moment before saying "i don't have to answer that" and i said "i'm sorry ma'am, but unfortunately you will have to leave your dog outside. you are welcome to come through the drive thru line for service." she threw a fit about how this was illegal, her dog was a service dog, we can't ask for her medical information, how dare we deny her service, she was going to sue us. i calmly explained that my goal was to protect the health and safety of all of our customers, that i was asking specifically about the task her dog performs and not her medical information, and that under ADA we were able to deny entry, and that she was welcome to come back inside without her dog or come through the drive thru line. she kept throwing a fit but she left. one of my favorite shifts i've ever worked.
i 100% agree this is how things *should* work, but please be aware that per sbux policy you’re only actually allowed to ask “is that a service dog”, no follow-up questions.
Starbucks policy doesn't ever supersede the LAW. By law, you are allowed to ask what the dog is trained to do. If the dog isn't trained, then you aren't breaking any laws by asking them to leave.
fair point. the shift i usually close with is chill and lets me ask but i think i'm just lucky in that regard
You can ask those 2 questions legally, but there is nothing in the ADA that states a person is required to answer those 2 questions. The question about the tasks the animal is trained to perform is allowed to be asked so you can be informed of what the dog may be signaling while the person is in your business so you can provide the right assistance in the event of an emergency. It is not there to make you the judge and jury to decide whether a person is disabled or not based on your subjective judgement of whether they answered the questions to your satisfaction (there's nothing in the ADA that even indicates what an acceptable answer to that question would be), and the person can decide not to answer you because in some instances, saying the task the dog is trained to perform will inherently reveal information about their disability that they don't have to reveal. There is no enforcement mechanism in the ADA for you exclude the service dog or person from the business unless that dog is misbehaving, sitting somewhere other than on the floor, or eating off the table as the ADA explicitly states. The only reason you would be able to exclude them if they fail to answer the first question (whether or not it's a service dog) is because there are already other health codes that exclude all non-service animals from a restaurant and that gives you the power of enforcement for that single question. The ADA is in place to protect people with disabilities and gives all people the benefit of the doubt so that people with disabilities do not face discrimination, it is not there to make a Starbucks barista the decision maker over whether a person is disabled or not. This is likely the reason why Starbucks policy says that you can't even ask the second question, even though it's legally allowed, because many people overstep their authority or read into the ADA and apply their own assumptions (of which none are explicitly stated in the actual ADA). So I'm not sure why people make such a big deal over this like it's their life's work to stop people from faking disabilities. The ADA will ALWAYS be there to put the best interests of the person above the business because that ensures people with disabilities don't face discrimination. Are there people who fake disabilities to bring in their animal? Of course! Is there anything you or I can do about it? No! Only congress can change the laws (and that's a good thing! a 16 year old shouldn't be pretending to be a doctor while working at Starbucks). So when someone comes in with an animal, and they say it's a service animal, that's where the conversation ends and you move on about your day. There's no point to create a confrontation with the customer because you will not affect any real change to the overall problem. If the animal exhibits one of the explicitly stated exclusionary behaviors in the ADA, then you can ask them to leave.
I don't know why we don't just become a lawless society, at this point, because nobody wants to follow any of the laws that we've put into place.
There are humans walking around dirtier and stinkier than dogs, yet they’re allowed entry.
if its bad enough to disrupt our third space policy, we're also allowed to ask them to leave too!
Very nice! Excellent job!👍
We had a dog with a vest on that was barking loudly anytime someone walked in or out of our lobby. It was so annoying and very obvious it wasn't a trained service dog, but we couldn't do anything about it, and the woman didn't even try to soothe her dog.
This happens a lot with a well loved regular at my new cafe job, everyone else is friends with him and loves the dog but the chihuahua barks all the time and is a nightmare, so im worried for the safety of other legit service animals but im scared i cant speak out because its a small team of everyone on the offenders side…
America as a whole needs to start reinforcing the service animal policies and stop kissing customers' asses.
I just commented on another post today about how a young woman next to me told an Amtrak conductor that her little shih tzu she had on her lap was her service dog. This dog was facing the aisle and I was at the window, so its little butthole was right up against my leg. Fucking gross, and I like dogs. The conductor told her if it was a service animal (which she said was for emotional needs) it needed to stay on the ground between her feet and not get in the aisle. She moved it to the ground for five seconds and when he left she put it back on her lap and was like “I can’t deal with this.” Like me either, bestie, but you don’t see me kicking your ass rn. :))) I’m not a confrontational person, but I was hour 8 into my trip and was teetering on the edge. Eventually a row opened up and she and her friend moved there and the dog was back on her lap. Entitled assholes everywhere now. Edit: sorry I went so off topic!
A dog sitting in someone’s lap next to you? The horror. Idk why you didn’t kick that woman’s ass. Having to exist next to a little dog. That’s crazy.
Yeah because peoples pets are the real crisis America is facing.
I think a lot of people confuse emotional support animals with service animals. And in some cases, the animal isn't even officially registered as an emotional support animal, the person has just assigned them that title themselves. And of course, emotional support animals are not trained any specific way, unlike service animals who know how to behave themselves, so a lot of the emotional support animals will be acting up and barking at strangers, etc.
You don't have to register an emotional support animal. All those online registration things are scams. You do need a letter or something from a mental health professional that works with you, that serves almost like a 'prescription' if you want to avail yourself of protections in housing.
It doesn't matter if you have a letter.Employees are not allowed to ask because that would be a hipaa violation
No it isn’t. HIPAA restricts providers from disclosing or releasing a patients medical information/history. Coffee shops are not bound by HIPAA and it is never a HIPAA violation to ask if an animal is a service animal.
It is per store policy.asking what the dog is for is basically asking for a diagnosis. I'm happy that we don't have many dogs in store. I think 1 in over a year.
This is why my middle kid (whose psychiatrist said a psychiatric service dog would be a worthwhile investment) is on the fence about it. So many people claim “service dog” or “emotional support animal” that are obviously not and my kid doesn’t want to deal with backlash since their disability is mental and not physical.
I really hate that it’s come to this too. They shouldn’t have to be on the fence about getting something that would support them. I get having problems, my brain all wonky itself, and I know not everything is visible disability wise. It’s just so frustrating that entitled people think it’s okay to lie because they’re too lazy to find a dog sitter or hell, leave it at home for a bit while you’re out. I get attachment issues too, I have a cat that’s that way, but there’s better ways to handle attachment issues that literally breaking rules
legally you can ask what tasks the animal does in order to verify its status as a working animal. they don’t need to be marked. i bring my service dog to starbucks sometimes and have run into issues with other people’s non-service dogs quite a lot. i’ve also had to start accepting pup cups only if we’re leaving otherwise she gets too excited and breaks task. those could help identify? also, even if it is a tasking SD if it’s doing anything that causes a disturbance you can ask them to leave. even if they try to report you to the ADA — which most folks don’t know about, it’s a little too “legal” for a lot of ppl — if you said you asked the appropriate questions & the animal was creating a disturbance i don’t believe there would be an issue. i’ve never done that but worth mentioning maybe.
Omg okay! So I work in a licensed store, where we do allow dogs as long as they're well behaved. A woman was in line with her dog and allowed another person to pet him and pick him up and it was honestly really cute. She orders, I make her drink and hand it off. She says "excuse me, at the other Starbucks down the street (a corporate store) they kicked me out for having a dog in there and I explained that he's a service dog and I have a card to prove it but they kicked me out anyway." Miss maam - that is not a service dog and we both know it. Not wearing any kind of service gear that would differentiate him, allowing other people to pet a "working animal," and there is no official registration card or anything like that (at least in the US). Not only did she try lying to that store, but she tried lying to me. What would she benefit from that? My store allows all dogs and wasn't gonna kick her out, but that put a bad taste in my mouth
nope. i've trained a service dog for my MIL who has anxiety and ptsd. she's accused of him not being a service dog anywhere. if i can tell that your dog is a pet and not a service dog after you've claimed it to be, i'm going to ask what task it's trained to perform. there is no paperwork or "proof" of an animal being a service animal, but as employees anywhere (in most states, at least,) you can ask the customer what task their dog is trained to perform, and you absolutely still have the right to ask them and their pet to leave if it's obvious it isn't a service dog or it's causing issues within your store. anyone that does that is immediately being asked to leave from my store, or at least remove their pet. this goes for ESA's too as they literally do not have the same public access rights as service animals
In Seattle, people tend to bring their "service dogs" along everywhere now. Drives a friend of mine up the wall that he has to tolerate this health infraction. He complains to the managers when he can, but their attitude has become increasingly loose. I've also noticed many supermarkets and mini-markets have downgraded their pet service signs.
Your friend sounds insufferable.
We have a woman who comes in with her service dog. She's a small, terrier mix. She has her harness that says service dog and a bandana as well. Other people come in with their dogs, and we let them know service animals only. They immediately ask why she gets to have her dog. Just because she isn't a big dog. Then, they try to claim their dog is a service dog. You basically admitted it wasn't when you argued about the other ladies' dog. Just grow up.
what you need to do is that if they say it’s a service dog ask for documentation, they should always have documentation and if not offer for them to wait outside and make a mobile order or go over to take their order
This is illegal in the United States and you would absolutely lose if a lawsuit resulted from this.
sorry i live in the uk and we don’t have laws like this didn’t realise!! that’s insane tho for you guys.
It’s seen as discrimination. Making disabled people jump through more hoops just to live their lives is unfair. The current laws (kick out any out of control dogs) would work great if people would just *enforce them*!
i get that, but here in the uk it’s just like if you want to bring a dog into a building which isn’t supposed to be unless they fit into this criteria, then there needs to be some form of proof of it fitting into said criteria. at my work i’ve had people coming in with like chiwawas in prams asking to come in and we have been like no because it’s clearly not a guide dog and if they try and lie saying they are we ask for some form of proof, which they aren’t obligated to carry but are supposed to expect to maybe get asked in certain places. it’s a shame that americans are so quick to be like i’m going to sue you the second they may not get their way.
I think you’re understanding how easy it is to fake such proof. The dog’s behavior and training is the proof. Even if a service dog is having a bad day, it will be obvious that the handler is trying to get the dog back under control. Our country is also so much bigger than yours is. Some of our states are bigger than an entire European country. It would be an unnecessary hardship on disabled people to have to travel to get this certification. Plus it would be humiliating to have to prove details of my disability just to buy food at the grocery store.
pls if someone’s going to that much effort to fake documentation i don’t care anymore i don’t get payed enough to enforce the law i just ask and if they do then im cool with that 😭😭
It’s so easy here. You pay $50-200 and get this official looking certification (which holds absolutely no legal weight) which no one knows is fake because no one knows the laws or trains the employees on them. Then I get denied access with my medical alert dog because “the other dogs have certification”.
might aswell just get a certification at that point cause that’s rlly shitty
Absolutely not. I’m not going to break federal law and make things worse for other legitimate service dog teams.
there is no documentation to prove a dog is a service animal, the Americans with Disabilities Act states this in the law
ah, see in the UK we do have documentation to prevent dicks doing stuff like walking in with dogs and saying “um the law says i can because i say im disabled 🤓☝️” most service dogs here also have a like little vest on that says service animal too
Thing is, they don’t have to have a specific medical issue to have a service animal. Any pet can be a support animal if you get the certificate. Stop being mad about petty things. There’s a lot more important things to be mad about.
Emotional support animals are much different from service animals and not at all protected in the same way.
Support animals and service animals are not the same and there is no official certification policy.
Enjoy the next health inspection 💩
yes they do. this prevents people with ACTUAL service dogs from being able to go out in public without being worried their dog is gonna be attacked by some untrained dog. yes fake service dogs are a huge issue, especially when 99.9% of the time they’re not trained at all. you’re so ignorant.
Well actually, I think any dog can be a service dog if the owner registers it as one. Idk if that’s a thing everywhere, but in my province, regular house animals can be registered as “emotional support animals” so the owner can take them where they like
In America emotional support animals don’t fall under ADA laws and they can’t be brought anywhere
Yes they can
From [ada.gov](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/) themselves: “Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? **No.** Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.”
Yes they can
being an esa doesn't give any pet public access rights. they have the same public access rights as a pet.
emotional support animals =/= service dogs, at least in the US. service dogs are considered essentially medical equipment.
there is no registration for a service dog. just training. and registering an animal as an esa doesn't give it public access rights. it's still the same as a pet. those companies that people are registering their dogs under are scams because that little "esa" card doesn't change anything if the dog has no service training.
Those are two different types of certifications in the US! Service animals are trained to provide a true service like a seeing eye dog for example. Emotional support animals just hang out with you for your comfort basically.
You don't need any sort of certification for a service animal. Though you can get some training certificates if you want to. Your service animal has to be capable of working without getting distracted and be trained to assist someone with a disability, but there are no registrations or things like that. And there shouldn't be, because service animals are so expensive, not covered by insurance, and even charities that help people get dogs are very limited. So, many people will work to train their own service dogs, and laws vary, but most states grant service dogs in training the same access rights as fully trained ones. But it's just good manners to be sure your dog has basically learned how to quietly exist without distraction before taking one out into public for that next step. (I am hoping to one day train my own service dog, since getting help with getting service dogs for PTSD if you're not a veteran is nearly impossible.)
I wasn’t aware! Thank you! I have an emotional support animal and had to previously get her certified for flights. It’s no longer possible to fly with ESA on the airlines I use though…
https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/ I definitely didn’t have fully correct info before reading this.