1. *How do you wanna be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright brothers? Elon Musk? Zefran Cochrane?*
That one aged like fucking milk lol. From an early DISCO episode.
2. *Set course for the Klingon Imperial Empire!*
From TNG, Sins of The Father. Can’t believe they had Patrick Stewart say the words ‘Imperial Empire’. Such a tautology.
3. *The people of your world once believed the world was flat. Columbus proved it was round.*
From Star Trek V.
Columbus never proved the world was round nor did he ever set out to do so. The shape of the Earth was ancient knowledge by his time. Such a weird myth for Star Trek to push.
1: Yup.
2: I rather enjoy the notion that the correct term- as dictated by the Klingons- would be a clumsy tautology.
3: Sybok was kinda nuts, so it makes sense he’d not be as astute with history.
Clumsy tautology would fit, although it’s also possible they have a dozen different words for empire that don’t translate well.
I’d also like to pedantically point out that here on earth we have countries called “Republic of X”, “Democratic Republic of X”, and “People’s Democratic Republic of X”.
It’s entirely possible that the similar concepts between a democracy and republic all translate into one word in Klingon.
Those all have distinct meanings, though. A republic is simply a nation without a monarch as head of state; a democratic republic is one with some form of democracy rather than an autocratic republic; and a people's democratic republic implies that it's governed by the people, i.e. from the bottom-up, a typical socialist ideal.
Curiously in practice though the more democratic monikers you add, the less democratic it becomes. DPRK comes to mind.
In our world the most represented countries at the top of the democratic indexes tend to be constitutional monarchies.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Economist\_Democracy\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index)
Yes, that's why I said "implies". And also yes, I know that's true re: constitutional monarchies but I don't see what that has to do with anything I said
I may be mistaken, but in regards to the imperial empire, weren't the Klingons divided during that time? A civil war situation if I remember correctly. The imperial empire could have been to specify which side/part they were going to?
Ugh yeah I hate the stupid Columbus proved the world is round. Like he was sailing west to go to Asia. This would only make sense if the world was round..
No one except the truly ignorant thought the world was flat. The story goes that the Portuguese turned Columbus down because they thought that. No, they knew the world was round, but they also knew that he'd grossly underestimated its size, and if there had been nothing but ocean where the Americas are, he and his crew would have died for lack of fresh water before reaching the West Indies.
That’s not as bad. Schools are named after bad rich people all the time. It’s the idea of him as an innovator, rather than a rich boy who buys innovative companies, that irks me.
I agree with #1 and #2. With respect to Sybok - seems like he oversimplified and over reduced a lot of things in his philosophy. He’s basically a cult leader, so his misrepresentation of things seems on point
Yeah I just watched that episode of Discovery for the first time last night and I cringed...had to check to see what year it was made.
And then it turns out one of the characters went to Musk HS?
Bleh.
It was cringe even before Musk went off the rails. Using a reference to someone who is still living in a futuristic show is just dumb. Stick with dead people with images that are unlikely to change.
> The people of your world once believed the world was flat. Columbus proved it was round.
I think it's funny because it shows Sybok is an ignorant fool. A lot of aliens in Star Trek have a strangely deep knowledge of human history and culture, so it's refreshing to run into an alien who gets it wrong.
The Columbus one is bad, yes. Starfleet personnel seem so weirdly ignorant of history, for educated people, I have sometimes wondered if it was deliberate - perhaps there was a decision after First Contact to stop teaching serious history because it would better if we didn't know? Or that they were supposed to have a Year Zero mentality?
Out-of-universe, though, I think it's just that the writers never bothered to check anything. It's a curious fact that people who would stop to check, for example, the capital of Turkey, don't check historical things they half-remember.
Reminds me of a codex entry in Mass Effect Andromeda saying SpaceX was instrumental in enabling mankind's exploration and colonisation of our solar system and beyond.
> How do you wanna be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright brothers? Elon Musk? Zefran Cochrane?
At first I was thinking that I just won't remember "least favorite" quotes, but now...yes pretty much everything from DISCO.
>This is the power of math, people!
That math quote was really embarrassing to watch, ditto for when they talk about "science." I miss the days when Star Trek characters generally acted like responsible, professional adults.
Disagree on the Elon Musk thing. I think he's a rich idiot who happened to have some early successes by being in the right place at the right time…but I do think people hundreds of years from now will know his name, and they will know it mainly for his efforts in space exploration, much as today we know Henry Ford for the automobile and we mostly overlook that he was an antisemitic POS.
Part of the reason we remember Ford though is the car company still has his name. Perhaps if he starts a company and called it "Musk" then he might be more likely to get that sort of renown centuries down the track.
I agree with the first two. Especially the first. Talk about dumb writing and short-sightedness (of course, I don't like Discovery anyway, and don't personally consider it legitimate canon).
However, to your third point: while Columbus didn't particularly make it a point to prove the world was round, his journey (as ultimately destructive to the Native Americans as it was) did famously and widely prove to Europeans that the world was indeed bigger than once thought and proved you could get to the "Indies" by sailing across the sea. In a way, it did prove the world was round. All of history prior to that point, despite having hypotheticals, theories, and cursory evidence stretching back to the Ancient World to suppose that the world was bigger than it appeared (and even round), was not widely proven so until the Columbian exchange (in many ways because of how high-profile Columbus' journeys were).
To summarize my argument: in the 13 and 1400s, Portugal had explored to the Azores (the Romans and Byzantines knew of them before) and down the coast of Africa (the Romans and Carthaginians and the Arab World knew of these places), the Spanish and Moroccans had explored the Canaries and across Mauretania to Sub-Saharan Africa (as did the Carthaginians long ago), the Vikings had found Iceland (and before them, possibly the Celtiberians), and Greenland and Vinland (but knowledge of Vinland outside of the realms of Norway and Scotland/Ireland was virtually nonexistent -- these were fringes of the medieval world), and the Chinese, Polynesians, and Incans had possibly sailed across the Pacific prior to 1492, but nobody (as far as I am aware) had put all of that together until that point. Globes as a concept for representing the world existed at least as early as Roman times (see globus cruciger), and carrying through in the medieval period, you have figures like al-Idrisi fashioning a silver globe for King Roger II of Norman Sicily around 1154, after finishing his great geography, the Tabula Rogeriana, but maps of the Medieval era, until Columbus' time clearly have limits within the bounds of Eurasia. After 1492, it expands greatly - globes and maps suddenly become drastically more popular and the drive to fill in the blank spaces on the map became more manifest. By Magellan's time, only a quarter century later, it was definitively shown that you could sail across the world and arrive at the same place (thereby proving without a doubt that the world was a globe). I think the recent Columbus controversy clouds how significant an impact the journeys had for society of the time and for the subsequent history and science of exploration and geography.
So, long story short, I wouldn't say it's wildly incorrect to say it as Kirk does here.
Yeah but wouldn't the natural response of the other characters be either:
"who?"
Or
"that rich bigoted manchild who didn't invent shit? Why would I want to be remembered alongside him?"
Though by the 23rd century, your average Starfleet officer might just assume that Musk was "a product of his day, everyone was less tolerant then" and not realize he was considered bad even by the standards of the time.
Kind of like how Henry Ford is still remembered more for the cars and not for all the racism.
I guess it works if we suppose Musk is going to do something worth naming high schools after him two centuries from now. He hasn't yet. Really, aside from making gobs of money and getting attention for all the wrong reasons, he's not made much of a splash. Electric car? Whatever, other companies are coming out with better ones.
At the time, Jobs only had the iMac and iPod under his belt as major product releases since his return to Apple. Both critical to Apple's resurgence but not enough global impact outside consumer circles to warrant an equivalent mention on ENT. The iPhone did, but that was introduced 2007. ENT was cancelled in 2005.
> That one aged like fucking milk lol. From an early DISCO episode.
As much as I am not a big fan of DISCO or Elon... You have to admit that SpaceX is doing amazing things. They are a decade at least ahead of EVERYONE ELSE including major governments.
And say what you will about Tesla, but at minimum it pushed the industry.
It really did age like milk, but at least it did get to age -- and on top of it, the reveal later that Lorca isn't who he seems to be, could relate to that.
I'm 100% certain when that line was written, and probably when it was recorded, and less certain of when it first aired, that Elon Musk hadn't yet shown off what a freakin tool he was. To a lot of us at the time, he was still the guy who saved our dreams of space travel still being a thing in our possible futures (SpaceX). The guy who actually *did something* (even if it turns out to be the wrong thing, or not enough) monumental to try to save us from ourselves (Tesla). Unfortuantely, from his actions since, I hope that he'll be reduced to something at most "Building on top of innovations of SpaceX, and Tesla, and a host of other enterprises in the early 2000's, society bettered itself".
Of course, with Lorca being from the MU perhaps MU Musk did those things, but also was instrumental in the formation of what became the Terran Empire.
The episode forgot to say. I think it was meant to be a parallel Earth where the Cold War went hot; because universal translators can't explain how *they* could read English.
That woman was played by Irene Kelly who was a neighbor of mine 60 years ago. The apartment complex had a swimming pool and even at 9 yo I thought she looked hot in a bikini.
Worse, the first half was actually a great debate on the Prime Directive, with arguments both for and against it. If they'd simply expanded that to an entire episode and dropped the heavy handed second half it would have been a fantastic episode.
True. I also really wish that they never leaned so heavily on the parallel Earth trope.
In the context of the greater Trek lore for no reason at all there exists the fact that humanity and Earth has spawned several times over to the degree that they recreated the US constitution and communism, oddly enough they rediscovered christianity without judaism or jesus and who knows what else. And all that in the relative vicinity of Earth.
Like what the hell man. Nothing after it remotely suggest this is common at all. They never bring it up again.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," purely because it is always misinterpreted and twisted to support cold equations.
It's meant to support the virtue of voluntary self sacrifice, not reducing harm to a cost benefit analysis.
I like this one and everything about alien civilizations that make us kind of uncomfortable, because they are supposed to be different people, with completely different morals and upbringing after all.
It's worse than that, Picard is not just French/British, he is an archaeologist (a promising one if his professor is to be believed), he would have knowledge about history and especially about something so monumental and well documented as the second world war.
As we later see in the first episode of Picard where he compares the evacuation of Romulus to the British evacuation at Dunkirk, then uses the reporter accepting his analogy as an example of her not understanding either situation because they were not in fact very similar beyond involving an evacuation.
This one I waffle back and forth on because on its face; it’s no comparison at all.
However, Dunkirk was an evacuation operation that tried to sweep under the rug an entire failure of the British military in responding to the growing threat of Germany. Which is similar to the Federation and the Romulans fucking up royally when there was a supernova about to destroy the Empire.
The phrase "I / you / we got this" has been popping up in stressful situations since early Discovery and it needs to be excised from Star Trek vocabulary. It's just lazy meaningless dialogue, on top of feeling too contemporary and out of place
Contemporary dialogue is an issue with nearly all speculative fiction. It's incredibly difficult to create new vernacular for a future society that a reader/viewer can easily understand. Imagine how confused someone from 200 years ago would be when faced with modern slang in general, not to mention technology and cultural norms that didn't exist in their time. We, today, would be just as confused by any such language changes from 200 years in the future.
“Mister Okona seems to have excellent vision as well as a healthy libido.”
I love Riker, but it’s just so awkward. Like, good on you for hitting on our transporter technician! We appreciate a good sex drive on this ship!
Ughhhhhh.
Every line they gave Tasha Yar and Wesley in season 1 of TNG.
the amount of times in a family show you hear the word "rape gangs" is just kinda disturbing.
>Look out there. Millions and millions of stars. Millions upon millions of worlds. And right now, half of them are fanatically dedicated to destroying the other half. Now - do you think, if one of those twinkling little lights suddenly went out, anybody would notice? Suppose I offered you 10 million bars of gold-pressed latinum to help turn out one of those lights - would you really tell me to keep my money?
Cousin Gaila, DS9 s05e18 "Business as Usual"
It's not a bad quote. I just hate how it makes me feel.
Yes that has to be one of the most uncomfortable quotes in all of Star Trek.
Reminds me of the quote attributed to Stalin but was probably not said by him "One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic"
*How do you want to be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright Brothers, Elon Musk, Zefram Cochrane? Or as a failed fungus expert, a selfish little man who put the survival of his own ego before the lives of others.*
Nah, that doesn't fit with the context of the scene. Nobody raised an eyebrow when he said that. Imagine someone mentioning idK Hitler or Stalin as an example for altruism, people in the room would be "´wtf"?
Plus, Tilly went to [Musk Junior High School](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School).
Elon Musk is a victim of the Temporal Cold War.
Just like the birth of Khan Noonian Singh has been pushed back decades, meddling Romulan time agents keep trying to disrupt the technological revolution of the late 20th and early 21st century, first by pushing Henry Starling off a ravine in the Sierras, and then by introducing Elon Musk to Twitter and converting him to Romulan ideology. The damn timeline just keeps self-correcting, though. Even their attempt to reprogram the prototype Soong-type android "Meta" to seize financial control of the technology sector and turn humanity in on itself didn't *quite* stick.
It wasn't a full-named school, so while it was clearly meant to be a tribute to Elon at the time the episode was produced, it's not canonical that it's actually him. Could be a descendant or entirely unrelated even.
That line was aged before it was even spoken, what they were trying to do is clear and I understand wanting to be with relevant and surprising but... even back then, it was no secret, he's a business man, and not a scientist or engineer. It's obviously aged even worse now as the wheels have come off Tesla and SpaceX and it looks like he'll be remembered primarily as that guy who bought Twitter and renamed it to "X, formerly known as Twitter".
I think at the time it was totally plausible that he would be remembered as some kind of modern day Thomas Edison. If the SpaceX stuff works out well he could still be remembered like that or like Henry Ford
That line aged very very poorly given Musk went off the deep end pretty soon after. Plus Musk is a business man, always was and he has never invented anything.
I think in the last 20 years it is finally becoming much more common knowledge that Eddison was not the inventor he claimed to be. People don't hold him in awe as much as they used to.
https://www.fudzilla.com/news/ai/56905-elon-musk-claims-to-have-invented-openai
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-founder-title/2088887/
And before you say "he didn't claim he invented Tesla cars, only that he started the company" It's patently obvious what he's trying to do: trick people into thinking he invented the cars by calling himself the company's founder.
Half of Tilly's lines are... awkward. Nothing will make me turn a show or movie off faster than lines like that, they absolutely do not belong in a serious, adult show about war and death
“Things are only impossible until they are not”. Great intentions, solid motivation, but out of Picard’s mouth it sounds clumsy.
Spock’s line to Rand about the imposter Kirk having some interesting qualities is pure agony as well.
"You're the best of us" - various episodes of Discovery.
I dislike it because it's exclusively used as a competent character with relevant skills and abilities for a problem abdicates responsibility to Michael, who we are *told* is really good at doing things, but never see evidence of.
There are a couple of new Trek anachronisms I could point to but I feel like those are all pretty obvious examples, I can't actually think of a better example right now than yours, OP.
I get you, I do. I saw that episode again just a week ago and did react to it. But still, it kinds feels like a realistic conversation in that situation. Two drunk guys, facing a slowly creeping death, trying to cheer each other up. I honestly find that episode one of Enterpride's best.
I mean, Reed is the ship incel, on a spacecraft captained by a dude who basically forgot about about his one other female officer for thirty episodes until he ordered her to throw a birthday party, so tbh it's basically just character building/workplace culture.
ENT, overall, was quite sexist. I understand your point, but in the greater context of ENT's sexism (especially in the portrayal of T'Pol), I still find it both cringey and problematic.
Yes, I completely agree. It was a very thirsty show and they did T'Pol and Hoshi very dirty sometimes. So in that regard - it was an unescessary scene. But just in that micro context I still find it a realistic comment between two dudes.
I’m watching TOS with my wife, and we just saw the episode with the grups. We both laughed out loud at shatner’s delivery of “No more ‘blah blah blah!!’”
And I hope that Bones didn’t inoculate that ‘bonk bonk’ kid 🙄
Assuming there's a red line on his Okudagram showing where the warp factor becomes dangerous to maintain too long, this seems reasonable to me. Or are you just saying it sounds clumsy?
Maybe reasonable indeed. But I can't help thinking of a car from today and looking at a tachometer! The Enterprise being so far removed from cars of today but don't go past the red line.. It's dangerous!
I would think an alert notification advising excessive warp speed etc would be much more appropriate.
I’ve gotta go with Zefram Cochran in First Contact. The movie is awesome except for that one line.
“So you’re all astronauts in some kind of Star Trek.”
That one physically pains me even more than the Elon Musk name drop in Disco.
That's either Ron Moore or Brannon Braga giggling at themselves; they also wrote "All Good Things...," which has Q telling he's putting an end to humanity's "trek through the stars."
It's lower-cased "star trek" not "Star Trek" in the script.
Of course we the audience knows it's self-referential, but Cochrane the character wasn't referring to a canonical in-universe franchise.
"In the event of a water landing, I have been designed to act as a flotation device." - Data, *Insurrection*
Ironically, that one line sinks the entire movie, for me.
Not only is it absolutely ridiculous, impossible, and dumb, but why would Data quote, almost verbatim, safety-procedure guidelines from the era of the airplane, which is long gone?
“Fire poisons the sky, trees gone water dry, soon no food no breathable air - maybe the future we saw starts right here?” - Seven, Picard S2
Everything about this line is so stupid I think about it nearly every day.
Another Picard humdinger that sticks in my mind is the Romulan traitor lady who says “on the world the humans…. Call MARS!” Which is especially funny to me because Romulans are based on Rome and Mars is a Roman God.
“If I touch you again, Your Glory, it will be to administer an ancient Earth custom called a spanking, a form of punishment administered to spoilt brats.”
Kirk in *Elaan of Troyius.*
I think it served a purpose, showing how overwhelming sudden emotions could be to a being with no skills at moderating them. Intrusive thoughts vocalized, judgment impaired.
One that's always bothered me is in *Datalore*, when Data's telling Crusher about his off switch, he swears her to secrecy and she readily agrees and *then* he says (paraphrasing), "Doctor, if *you* had an off switch, would you not wish to keep it secret?" And she sighs and agrees. It just feels so clunky to me, like the lines were out of order. He should have said that first to convince her, and then she agreed to keep his secret. Instead he says it after she agreed already, as if she'd argued with him over it and he had to insist? But she hadn't?
Most of TNG S1 feels clunky and stilted. And some of 2. But I rewatched this one not long ago and it stuck out to me.
Every other line in Discovery makes me cringe.
But there was a speech by Kirk in TOS where he very openly spoke about god this and god that, which just really didn't fit with the show. Can't find it now, but I really don't like it.
I think he does it a few times, but I remember one cringey line in the episode where they encounter Apollo (I think it’s Who mourns for Adonais?) where Kirk gets a bit preachy. Honestly, I’m a believer myself but even I find it awkward to have Christianity in my Trek. I mean it’d be fine if there was a Christian character in Star Trek but I’d hate for it to become their entire personality or just some kind of caricature (like the Chakotay route)
I just chalked it up to the times though. It was a different era
TOS, “Metamorphosis:”
COCHRANE: Captain, why did you build that translator with a feminine voice?
KIRK: We didn't.
COCHRANE: But I heard
KIRK: **The idea of male and female are universal constants, Cochrane.** There's no doubt about it. The Companion is female.
COCHRANE: I don't understand.
MCCOY: You don't? A blind man could see it with a cane. You're not a pet. You're not a specimen kept in a cage. You're a lover.
COCHRANE: I'm a what?
SPOCK: Her attitude when she approaches you is profoundly different than when she contacts us. Her appearance is soft, gentle. Her voice is melodic, pleasing. I do not totally understand the emotion, but it obviously exists. The Companion loves you.
COCHRANE: Do you know what you're saying? For all these years, I've let something as alien as that crawl around inside me, into my mind, my feelings.
KIRK: What are you complaining about? It kept you alive.
COCHRANE: That thing fed on me. It used me. It's disgusting.
MCCOY: There's nothing disgusting about it. It's just another life form, that's all. You get used to those things.
COCHRANE: You're as bad as it is.
SPOCK: Your highly emotional reaction is most illogical. Your relationship with the Companion has for one hundred and fifty years been emotionally satisfying, eminently practical, and totally harmless. It may indeed have been quite beneficial.
COCHRANE: Is this what the future holds? Men who have no notion of decency or morality? Maybe I'm a hundred and fifty years out of style, but I'm not going to be fodder for any inhuman monster. (leaves)
SPOCK: Fascinating. A totally parochial attitude.
NANCY: Doctor. Doctor.
MCCOY: Right here, Miss Hedford.
NANCY: I heard him. He was loved and he resents it.
MCCOY: You just rest.
NANCY: No. I don't want to die. I've been good at my job, but I've never been loved. Never. What kind of life is that? Not to be loved, never to have shown love? And he runs away from love. (cries)
The scene in Strange New Worlds where M'Benga and Sam Kirk discuss 'studying' the Gorn with a phaser:
'How else would we determine how best to kill them?'
'I would like to aid you in that study.'
I prefer Star Trek characters to *not* sound like 40K Space Marines.
Ezri to Bashir
"If Worf hadn't come along, it would've been you."
It's such a nice guy fantasy saying that if you just wait your turn, you'll get the girl.
Well as a leftist I'm often at odds with Odo. It's hilarious that his nemesis is Quark because both represent types beliefs I despise.
Good characters though for the most part, especially Quark but this quote always comes to mind.
DS9: Bar Association - *"From what Chief O'Brien tells me about strikes, they sound like trouble. I don't like mobs. In my opinion, if you need one to get what you want, it's not worth getting."*
Such a fashy comment. I can go episodes really enjoying Odo and he'll say something like that and snap me back to reality. I blame the framing by the writers which underplays the implications of these types of statements.
The most cringy comment was in Star Trek TNG "Q Who?" when they first encounter the Borg. While being attacked, Riker stupidly says, "they're carving us up like a roast."
Dumbest moment in Star Trek.
Not necessarily. Roast Beef for a sandwitch would be sliced or shaved. Alot of your buffets also have someone carving roast beef. These are just a couple of examples.
"Because the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" from Search for Spock.
Not because of the content of the line, but because of the context. The balance between the needs of the many and the needs/rights of the few is a classic and continual ethical and political question. But the film has this line as if it's the profound theme of the film when it isn't. The needs of the many aren't hurt by the needs of the one or the few over the course of the film. It's just a reverse of Spock's line from Wrath of Khan without the appropriate themes to back it up.
No, I feel it was. A starship was stolen, and then destroyed. Another was sabotaged. Starfleet personnel were incapacitated and their systems were degraded. Starfleet was hurt from the inside out, by those they trusted most.
And yet, Kirk knew that Starfleet’s readiness as a whole would most likely not be impacted. No one was killed on his way out. Klingons were not expected to be encountered so the *Enterprise’s* destruction was not calculated. The *Excelsior* could be easily repaired once they figured out what was wrong. Nothing Kirk did permanently damaged the Federation, and that was where the needs of the many became outweighed.
And Kirk lost his only son, so it’s not like he got away with it all.
Sarek said: “One alive, one not. Yet both in pain.” Kirk knew that McCoy would never recover, be himself again, because he carried Spock’s *katra.* He also then realized that if Spock’s body could be recovered, there might be a chance his *katra* could be rejoined to his body. So perhaps not the “needs of the one” but definitely of two.
“What you ask… is difficult.”
“You will find a way, Kirk. If you honor them both… you must.”
***
“Kirk. I thank you. What you have done is…”
“What I did… I had to do.”
“But at what cost? Your ship. Your son.”
“If I hadn’t tried… the cost would have been my soul.”
What you are describing to me is the needs of the one/few vs the needs of the other one/few. Or even the conflicting needs within one person. Not the many vs the few. As you say, Starfleet (the many) wasn't hurt. Kirk (a one) was hurt. So it's either Kirk's needs vs Spock's needs or it's Kirk's needs for his ship vs his need for Spock. Either way, it's not putting the many in conflict with the few. It's the few vs the few.
Maybe that’s the lesson. The needs of the one can only outweigh the needs of the many if the many will not be harmed. Which is common sense, but I suppose that Kirk, being a Starfleet admiral, had an immense amount of power that he had to make sure that, when he exercised it, didn’t run over others.
It’s not just about grit. Of course an organisation like Section 31 would exist. The Federation isn’t perfect.
I mean it’s basically just the CIA. No major power goes without a clandestine & immoral intelligence service.
Hell, without the amount of evil admirals in Starfleet, it makes even more sense.
"The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible."
It bothered me that T'pol was so stuck on that for 2 reasons, one because she witnessed so much evidence to the contrary and two a good scientist should be open to challenging existing ideas with new ideas
1. *How do you wanna be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright brothers? Elon Musk? Zefran Cochrane?* That one aged like fucking milk lol. From an early DISCO episode. 2. *Set course for the Klingon Imperial Empire!* From TNG, Sins of The Father. Can’t believe they had Patrick Stewart say the words ‘Imperial Empire’. Such a tautology. 3. *The people of your world once believed the world was flat. Columbus proved it was round.* From Star Trek V. Columbus never proved the world was round nor did he ever set out to do so. The shape of the Earth was ancient knowledge by his time. Such a weird myth for Star Trek to push.
1: Yup. 2: I rather enjoy the notion that the correct term- as dictated by the Klingons- would be a clumsy tautology. 3: Sybok was kinda nuts, so it makes sense he’d not be as astute with history.
Clumsy tautology would fit, although it’s also possible they have a dozen different words for empire that don’t translate well. I’d also like to pedantically point out that here on earth we have countries called “Republic of X”, “Democratic Republic of X”, and “People’s Democratic Republic of X”. It’s entirely possible that the similar concepts between a democracy and republic all translate into one word in Klingon.
I like to think that the official full name for the Klingon Empire has like 20 different variations of the Words "Honor" and "Glorious" in it.
Those all have distinct meanings, though. A republic is simply a nation without a monarch as head of state; a democratic republic is one with some form of democracy rather than an autocratic republic; and a people's democratic republic implies that it's governed by the people, i.e. from the bottom-up, a typical socialist ideal.
Curiously in practice though the more democratic monikers you add, the less democratic it becomes. DPRK comes to mind. In our world the most represented countries at the top of the democratic indexes tend to be constitutional monarchies. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Economist\_Democracy\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index)
Yes, that's why I said "implies". And also yes, I know that's true re: constitutional monarchies but I don't see what that has to do with anything I said
Just that the implication tends to be anything but.
I may be mistaken, but in regards to the imperial empire, weren't the Klingons divided during that time? A civil war situation if I remember correctly. The imperial empire could have been to specify which side/part they were going to?
Ugh yeah I hate the stupid Columbus proved the world is round. Like he was sailing west to go to Asia. This would only make sense if the world was round..
No one except the truly ignorant thought the world was flat. The story goes that the Portuguese turned Columbus down because they thought that. No, they knew the world was round, but they also knew that he'd grossly underestimated its size, and if there had been nothing but ocean where the Americas are, he and his crew would have died for lack of fresh water before reaching the West Indies.
I always pretend that since >!he was a mirror universe character, their Musk was different!< and he never bothered to check.
But Tilly attended a school named after him. And that wasn't in the mirror universe.
That’s not as bad. Schools are named after bad rich people all the time. It’s the idea of him as an innovator, rather than a rich boy who buys innovative companies, that irks me.
Does kind of clash with Star Trek though considering Musk is basically the antithesis of everything the federation stands for.
Too true. Maybe it was named in the next few decades and never changed its name.
"Ah yes, Elon Musk, the notorious xenophile and revolutionary. These Federation hippies probably *admire* him."
"Elon Musk, the Maoist?"
I agree with #1 and #2. With respect to Sybok - seems like he oversimplified and over reduced a lot of things in his philosophy. He’s basically a cult leader, so his misrepresentation of things seems on point
Yeah I just watched that episode of Discovery for the first time last night and I cringed...had to check to see what year it was made. And then it turns out one of the characters went to Musk HS? Bleh.
It was cringe even before Musk went off the rails. Using a reference to someone who is still living in a futuristic show is just dumb. Stick with dead people with images that are unlikely to change.
Oh for sure, but it's the difference between being cringe and naïve, and tacitly endorsing someone who has become known as a far-right reactionary.
> The people of your world once believed the world was flat. Columbus proved it was round. I think it's funny because it shows Sybok is an ignorant fool. A lot of aliens in Star Trek have a strangely deep knowledge of human history and culture, so it's refreshing to run into an alien who gets it wrong.
That’s a great interpretation. Unfortunately the way it’s presented in the story makes it seem like Sybok has a good point
The Columbus one is bad, yes. Starfleet personnel seem so weirdly ignorant of history, for educated people, I have sometimes wondered if it was deliberate - perhaps there was a decision after First Contact to stop teaching serious history because it would better if we didn't know? Or that they were supposed to have a Year Zero mentality? Out-of-universe, though, I think it's just that the writers never bothered to check anything. It's a curious fact that people who would stop to check, for example, the capital of Turkey, don't check historical things they half-remember.
Reminds me of a codex entry in Mass Effect Andromeda saying SpaceX was instrumental in enabling mankind's exploration and colonisation of our solar system and beyond.
Atleast that hasn't aged like milk just yet, and hopefully it won't.
> How do you wanna be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright brothers? Elon Musk? Zefran Cochrane? At first I was thinking that I just won't remember "least favorite" quotes, but now...yes pretty much everything from DISCO. >This is the power of math, people!
That math quote was really embarrassing to watch, ditto for when they talk about "science." I miss the days when Star Trek characters generally acted like responsible, professional adults.
Disagree on the Elon Musk thing. I think he's a rich idiot who happened to have some early successes by being in the right place at the right time…but I do think people hundreds of years from now will know his name, and they will know it mainly for his efforts in space exploration, much as today we know Henry Ford for the automobile and we mostly overlook that he was an antisemitic POS.
Part of the reason we remember Ford though is the car company still has his name. Perhaps if he starts a company and called it "Musk" then he might be more likely to get that sort of renown centuries down the track.
I agree with the first two. Especially the first. Talk about dumb writing and short-sightedness (of course, I don't like Discovery anyway, and don't personally consider it legitimate canon). However, to your third point: while Columbus didn't particularly make it a point to prove the world was round, his journey (as ultimately destructive to the Native Americans as it was) did famously and widely prove to Europeans that the world was indeed bigger than once thought and proved you could get to the "Indies" by sailing across the sea. In a way, it did prove the world was round. All of history prior to that point, despite having hypotheticals, theories, and cursory evidence stretching back to the Ancient World to suppose that the world was bigger than it appeared (and even round), was not widely proven so until the Columbian exchange (in many ways because of how high-profile Columbus' journeys were). To summarize my argument: in the 13 and 1400s, Portugal had explored to the Azores (the Romans and Byzantines knew of them before) and down the coast of Africa (the Romans and Carthaginians and the Arab World knew of these places), the Spanish and Moroccans had explored the Canaries and across Mauretania to Sub-Saharan Africa (as did the Carthaginians long ago), the Vikings had found Iceland (and before them, possibly the Celtiberians), and Greenland and Vinland (but knowledge of Vinland outside of the realms of Norway and Scotland/Ireland was virtually nonexistent -- these were fringes of the medieval world), and the Chinese, Polynesians, and Incans had possibly sailed across the Pacific prior to 1492, but nobody (as far as I am aware) had put all of that together until that point. Globes as a concept for representing the world existed at least as early as Roman times (see globus cruciger), and carrying through in the medieval period, you have figures like al-Idrisi fashioning a silver globe for King Roger II of Norman Sicily around 1154, after finishing his great geography, the Tabula Rogeriana, but maps of the Medieval era, until Columbus' time clearly have limits within the bounds of Eurasia. After 1492, it expands greatly - globes and maps suddenly become drastically more popular and the drive to fill in the blank spaces on the map became more manifest. By Magellan's time, only a quarter century later, it was definitively shown that you could sail across the world and arrive at the same place (thereby proving without a doubt that the world was a globe). I think the recent Columbus controversy clouds how significant an impact the journeys had for society of the time and for the subsequent history and science of exploration and geography. So, long story short, I wouldn't say it's wildly incorrect to say it as Kirk does here.
I disagree with no1. If anything I think it aged even better. The mask coming off Musk would likely play well with a Terran.
Yeah but wouldn't the natural response of the other characters be either: "who?" Or "that rich bigoted manchild who didn't invent shit? Why would I want to be remembered alongside him?"
Though by the 23rd century, your average Starfleet officer might just assume that Musk was "a product of his day, everyone was less tolerant then" and not realize he was considered bad even by the standards of the time. Kind of like how Henry Ford is still remembered more for the cars and not for all the racism.
I guess it works if we suppose Musk is going to do something worth naming high schools after him two centuries from now. He hasn't yet. Really, aside from making gobs of money and getting attention for all the wrong reasons, he's not made much of a splash. Electric car? Whatever, other companies are coming out with better ones.
Musk with the Evil Goatee would be hilarious
Wasn't #1 from ENT?
Elon was not a publicly known person by the time ENT stopped airing, and wouldn't be for many years after.
Yeah, if anything it would be Steve Jobs that would have gotten a shoutout in a similar moment during Enterprise.
At the time, Jobs only had the iMac and iPod under his belt as major product releases since his return to Apple. Both critical to Apple's resurgence but not enough global impact outside consumer circles to warrant an equivalent mention on ENT. The iPhone did, but that was introduced 2007. ENT was cancelled in 2005.
You're absolutely right, my mistake.
> That one aged like fucking milk lol. From an early DISCO episode. As much as I am not a big fan of DISCO or Elon... You have to admit that SpaceX is doing amazing things. They are a decade at least ahead of EVERYONE ELSE including major governments. And say what you will about Tesla, but at minimum it pushed the industry.
It really did age like milk, but at least it did get to age -- and on top of it, the reveal later that Lorca isn't who he seems to be, could relate to that. I'm 100% certain when that line was written, and probably when it was recorded, and less certain of when it first aired, that Elon Musk hadn't yet shown off what a freakin tool he was. To a lot of us at the time, he was still the guy who saved our dreams of space travel still being a thing in our possible futures (SpaceX). The guy who actually *did something* (even if it turns out to be the wrong thing, or not enough) monumental to try to save us from ourselves (Tesla). Unfortuantely, from his actions since, I hope that he'll be reduced to something at most "Building on top of innovations of SpaceX, and Tesla, and a host of other enterprises in the early 2000's, society bettered itself". Of course, with Lorca being from the MU perhaps MU Musk did those things, but also was instrumental in the formation of what became the Terran Empire.
The problem being, Stamets seemed to acknowledge that all 4 men were great figures of history
I have two: "Brain, Brain, what is Brain?" "I always wanted to have children, but I never imagined having them with you."
I love "Brain and brain! What is brain?! ...it is the controller!"
I quote this all the time. Along with (in a cockney dialect), “Library? Where’s Library?”
“e Plebnista.” or as Kirk translates "We the People" How the hell did the Yangs(Yanks) get the constitution anyways.
The episode forgot to say. I think it was meant to be a parallel Earth where the Cold War went hot; because universal translators can't explain how *they* could read English.
You speak the worship words!!
That episodes was abysmal
Except the fight scene where Spock hypnotizes the woman. Beautiful TOS filming, cutting between the violence and the slow walk.
That woman was played by Irene Kelly who was a neighbor of mine 60 years ago. The apartment complex had a swimming pool and even at 9 yo I thought she looked hot in a bikini.
Before it turned into Vulcans just being psychic in general Spock was intended to have the very specific ability of "being able to hypnotise women".
Worse, the first half was actually a great debate on the Prime Directive, with arguments both for and against it. If they'd simply expanded that to an entire episode and dropped the heavy handed second half it would have been a fantastic episode.
True. I also really wish that they never leaned so heavily on the parallel Earth trope. In the context of the greater Trek lore for no reason at all there exists the fact that humanity and Earth has spawned several times over to the degree that they recreated the US constitution and communism, oddly enough they rediscovered christianity without judaism or jesus and who knows what else. And all that in the relative vicinity of Earth. Like what the hell man. Nothing after it remotely suggest this is common at all. They never bring it up again.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," purely because it is always misinterpreted and twisted to support cold equations. It's meant to support the virtue of voluntary self sacrifice, not reducing harm to a cost benefit analysis.
This enrages me so much, people act like it's a defense of utilitarianism
I mean it sure seems like it is. It closely parallels Jeremy Bentham's line about "sinister interests"
Anyway, as Kirk pointed out, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.
I like this one and everything about alien civilizations that make us kind of uncomfortable, because they are supposed to be different people, with completely different morals and upbringing after all.
It's worse than that, Picard is not just French/British, he is an archaeologist (a promising one if his professor is to be believed), he would have knowledge about history and especially about something so monumental and well documented as the second world war.
As we later see in the first episode of Picard where he compares the evacuation of Romulus to the British evacuation at Dunkirk, then uses the reporter accepting his analogy as an example of her not understanding either situation because they were not in fact very similar beyond involving an evacuation.
This one I waffle back and forth on because on its face; it’s no comparison at all. However, Dunkirk was an evacuation operation that tried to sweep under the rug an entire failure of the British military in responding to the growing threat of Germany. Which is similar to the Federation and the Romulans fucking up royally when there was a supernova about to destroy the Empire.
Fun fact that part of his character was added because Patrick Stewart has an interest in archeology and collects ancient pottery.
The phrase "I / you / we got this" has been popping up in stressful situations since early Discovery and it needs to be excised from Star Trek vocabulary. It's just lazy meaningless dialogue, on top of feeling too contemporary and out of place
Contemporary dialog is an issue with all modern Trek.
Contemporary dialogue is an issue with nearly all speculative fiction. It's incredibly difficult to create new vernacular for a future society that a reader/viewer can easily understand. Imagine how confused someone from 200 years ago would be when faced with modern slang in general, not to mention technology and cultural norms that didn't exist in their time. We, today, would be just as confused by any such language changes from 200 years in the future.
“Brain, brain, brain! What is brain!”
“Mister Okona seems to have excellent vision as well as a healthy libido.” I love Riker, but it’s just so awkward. Like, good on you for hitting on our transporter technician! We appreciate a good sex drive on this ship! Ughhhhhh.
So much awkward dialogue in seasons 1&2 of TNG
Definitely feels like a Gene influence
Every line they gave Tasha Yar and Wesley in season 1 of TNG. the amount of times in a family show you hear the word "rape gangs" is just kinda disturbing.
You feel her Season 2 dialog was better?
There wasn’t any, which was an improvement.
When was rape gangs ever used before or after outside of her saying it? I’m not just talking trek, I mean in ANY sense!
Literally never.
>Look out there. Millions and millions of stars. Millions upon millions of worlds. And right now, half of them are fanatically dedicated to destroying the other half. Now - do you think, if one of those twinkling little lights suddenly went out, anybody would notice? Suppose I offered you 10 million bars of gold-pressed latinum to help turn out one of those lights - would you really tell me to keep my money? Cousin Gaila, DS9 s05e18 "Business as Usual" It's not a bad quote. I just hate how it makes me feel.
Sounds like it hit exactly how it was meant to.
To be fair thats coming from a morally questionable Ferengi Arms dealer. It wasnt exactly trying to be an uplifting and postive quote.
Yes that has to be one of the most uncomfortable quotes in all of Star Trek. Reminds me of the quote attributed to Stalin but was probably not said by him "One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic"
"It's not *you* I hate, Ferengi. I hate how I feel, *because* of you." — O'Brien, probably.
Damn, you're gonna make me rewatch DS9
It's never a bad idea to rewatch DS9!
That's just a riff from Harry Lime's speech in The Third Man
*How do you want to be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright Brothers, Elon Musk, Zefram Cochrane? Or as a failed fungus expert, a selfish little man who put the survival of his own ego before the lives of others.*
It was spoken by someone from the mirror universe. Perhaps mirror Elon Musk was different.
Nah, that doesn't fit with the context of the scene. Nobody raised an eyebrow when he said that. Imagine someone mentioning idK Hitler or Stalin as an example for altruism, people in the room would be "´wtf"? Plus, Tilly went to [Musk Junior High School](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School).
Maybe Elon Musk turns his life around and becomes universally beloved. I mean... Star Trek is utopian.
Elon Musk is a victim of the Temporal Cold War. Just like the birth of Khan Noonian Singh has been pushed back decades, meddling Romulan time agents keep trying to disrupt the technological revolution of the late 20th and early 21st century, first by pushing Henry Starling off a ravine in the Sierras, and then by introducing Elon Musk to Twitter and converting him to Romulan ideology. The damn timeline just keeps self-correcting, though. Even their attempt to reprogram the prototype Soong-type android "Meta" to seize financial control of the technology sector and turn humanity in on itself didn't *quite* stick.
I don't see him ever giving up the means of production as others have said he may want to save the world, but only as long as he's the one doing it
It wasn't a full-named school, so while it was clearly meant to be a tribute to Elon at the time the episode was produced, it's not canonical that it's actually him. Could be a descendant or entirely unrelated even.
That line was aged before it was even spoken, what they were trying to do is clear and I understand wanting to be with relevant and surprising but... even back then, it was no secret, he's a business man, and not a scientist or engineer. It's obviously aged even worse now as the wheels have come off Tesla and SpaceX and it looks like he'll be remembered primarily as that guy who bought Twitter and renamed it to "X, formerly known as Twitter".
I think Jason Isaacs adlibbed that, because he hoped he would get a free Tesla, but I might misremember that.
I think at the time it was totally plausible that he would be remembered as some kind of modern day Thomas Edison. If the SpaceX stuff works out well he could still be remembered like that or like Henry Ford
I mean Henry Ford was also a massive douchebag, a conspiracy theory peddler and a nazi sympathiser... So your comparison is indeed apt.
That line aged very very poorly given Musk went off the deep end pretty soon after. Plus Musk is a business man, always was and he has never invented anything.
How many inventions did Thomas Edison rip off? Similar concept only it is current events for us, rather than history.
I think in the last 20 years it is finally becoming much more common knowledge that Eddison was not the inventor he claimed to be. People don't hold him in awe as much as they used to.
He wasn't just a businessman though, he was the only businessman heavily pushing for solar and electric cars.
Yes, but he invented none of it.
Doesn't really matter to the history books. Without him involved at Tesla i seriously doubt they would have been as succesful as they are.
Nobody is saying he did, and if they are then they're wrong. He's just setting up factories to make better and cheaper ones.
> Nobody is saying he did Except himself.
Link?
https://www.fudzilla.com/news/ai/56905-elon-musk-claims-to-have-invented-openai https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-founder-title/2088887/ And before you say "he didn't claim he invented Tesla cars, only that he started the company" It's patently obvious what he's trying to do: trick people into thinking he invented the cars by calling himself the company's founder.
Did he ever say "I invented electric cars," or, "I invented solar panels"? That's the question I'm asking.
Oh I get it. You're arguing in bad faith. Have a nice day.
"I AM KIROOOOOK"
I crack up hysterically every time I hear this. And it’s not in a good way lol
[удалено]
I feel sorry for the actress having to actually say it out loud.
Half of Tilly's lines are... awkward. Nothing will make me turn a show or movie off faster than lines like that, they absolutely do not belong in a serious, adult show about war and death
> a serious, adult show about war and death You watch a very different *Star Trek* than I do.
Well, in theory that's a major theme of DIS
Yeah, she sounds like she was in a math video for kids and not a sci-fi show.
“Things are only impossible until they are not”. Great intentions, solid motivation, but out of Picard’s mouth it sounds clumsy. Spock’s line to Rand about the imposter Kirk having some interesting qualities is pure agony as well.
Considering what Spock did to Valeris later, it makes one wonder
"You're the best of us" - various episodes of Discovery. I dislike it because it's exclusively used as a competent character with relevant skills and abilities for a problem abdicates responsibility to Michael, who we are *told* is really good at doing things, but never see evidence of. There are a couple of new Trek anachronisms I could point to but I feel like those are all pretty obvious examples, I can't actually think of a better example right now than yours, OP.
"Surrounded by spears classic 2260s what am I kirk?" I love lower decks but early season 1 was pretty clunky
Aw, that was a good line.
Reed: You ever noticed her bum? Tucker: What? Reed: Her bum. She’s got an awfully nice bum.
I get you, I do. I saw that episode again just a week ago and did react to it. But still, it kinds feels like a realistic conversation in that situation. Two drunk guys, facing a slowly creeping death, trying to cheer each other up. I honestly find that episode one of Enterpride's best.
I mean, Reed is the ship incel, on a spacecraft captained by a dude who basically forgot about about his one other female officer for thirty episodes until he ordered her to throw a birthday party, so tbh it's basically just character building/workplace culture.
ENT, overall, was quite sexist. I understand your point, but in the greater context of ENT's sexism (especially in the portrayal of T'Pol), I still find it both cringey and problematic.
Yes, I completely agree. It was a very thirsty show and they did T'Pol and Hoshi very dirty sometimes. So in that regard - it was an unescessary scene. But just in that micro context I still find it a realistic comment between two dudes.
What is this? A REED alert!?! 😂 😝
I want to upvote this, but I can't bring myself to. Pretend that you have an updoot and go celebrate accordingly.
Bonk bonk on the head! No more blah blah blah! Drugs can make you feel *good!!* Yes Ensign, it is fucking cool.
I’m watching TOS with my wife, and we just saw the episode with the grups. We both laughed out loud at shatner’s delivery of “No more ‘blah blah blah!!’” And I hope that Bones didn’t inoculate that ‘bonk bonk’ kid 🙄
Lol seriously, so annoying
Worf in Encounter At Farpoint: We are now at warp nine point three sir, which takes us past the red line.. I cringe every time I hear that.
Assuming there's a red line on his Okudagram showing where the warp factor becomes dangerous to maintain too long, this seems reasonable to me. Or are you just saying it sounds clumsy?
Wasn’t the design-speed 9.6, though?
For 12 hours I think.
Maybe reasonable indeed. But I can't help thinking of a car from today and looking at a tachometer! The Enterprise being so far removed from cars of today but don't go past the red line.. It's dangerous! I would think an alert notification advising excessive warp speed etc would be much more appropriate.
I’ve gotta go with Zefram Cochran in First Contact. The movie is awesome except for that one line. “So you’re all astronauts in some kind of Star Trek.” That one physically pains me even more than the Elon Musk name drop in Disco.
It's so stupid I love it
Yeah but that’s a deliberate wink to the audience, as opposed to a poorly written line.
Deliberate winks to the audience are frequently poorly written lines
That's either Ron Moore or Brannon Braga giggling at themselves; they also wrote "All Good Things...," which has Q telling he's putting an end to humanity's "trek through the stars."
It's lower-cased "star trek" not "Star Trek" in the script. Of course we the audience knows it's self-referential, but Cochrane the character wasn't referring to a canonical in-universe franchise.
“Shut the fuck up!” And “I like science”
That last one was especially cringe. It made "Spock" sound like a simpleton child.
I understand why the Pearl Harbor line bothers you, but it's delivered so well. That has to count for something.
"In the event of a water landing, I have been designed to act as a flotation device." - Data, *Insurrection* Ironically, that one line sinks the entire movie, for me. Not only is it absolutely ridiculous, impossible, and dumb, but why would Data quote, almost verbatim, safety-procedure guidelines from the era of the airplane, which is long gone?
The higher the fewer.
“Fire poisons the sky, trees gone water dry, soon no food no breathable air - maybe the future we saw starts right here?” - Seven, Picard S2 Everything about this line is so stupid I think about it nearly every day. Another Picard humdinger that sticks in my mind is the Romulan traitor lady who says “on the world the humans…. Call MARS!” Which is especially funny to me because Romulans are based on Rome and Mars is a Roman God.
“If I touch you again, Your Glory, it will be to administer an ancient Earth custom called a spanking, a form of punishment administered to spoilt brats.” Kirk in *Elaan of Troyius.*
I really hate to most famous Star Trek quote, which is not even a real quote: "Bean me up Scotty!" *Shudder*
"I just love scanning for life forms! Life forms, you tiny little life forms..."
How dare you, that line is a national treasure.
I knew this would be divisive
I think it served a purpose, showing how overwhelming sudden emotions could be to a being with no skills at moderating them. Intrusive thoughts vocalized, judgment impaired.
Anything from Discovery.
Oh shit.
I remember really liking Data’s emotional outbursts when I first saw them as a kid, but I just recently rewatched and it felt a bit cringe
One that's always bothered me is in *Datalore*, when Data's telling Crusher about his off switch, he swears her to secrecy and she readily agrees and *then* he says (paraphrasing), "Doctor, if *you* had an off switch, would you not wish to keep it secret?" And she sighs and agrees. It just feels so clunky to me, like the lines were out of order. He should have said that first to convince her, and then she agreed to keep his secret. Instead he says it after she agreed already, as if she'd argued with him over it and he had to insist? But she hadn't? Most of TNG S1 feels clunky and stilted. And some of 2. But I rewatched this one not long ago and it stuck out to me.
Every other line in Discovery makes me cringe. But there was a speech by Kirk in TOS where he very openly spoke about god this and god that, which just really didn't fit with the show. Can't find it now, but I really don't like it.
I think he does it a few times, but I remember one cringey line in the episode where they encounter Apollo (I think it’s Who mourns for Adonais?) where Kirk gets a bit preachy. Honestly, I’m a believer myself but even I find it awkward to have Christianity in my Trek. I mean it’d be fine if there was a Christian character in Star Trek but I’d hate for it to become their entire personality or just some kind of caricature (like the Chakotay route) I just chalked it up to the times though. It was a different era
TOS, “Metamorphosis:” COCHRANE: Captain, why did you build that translator with a feminine voice? KIRK: We didn't. COCHRANE: But I heard KIRK: **The idea of male and female are universal constants, Cochrane.** There's no doubt about it. The Companion is female. COCHRANE: I don't understand. MCCOY: You don't? A blind man could see it with a cane. You're not a pet. You're not a specimen kept in a cage. You're a lover. COCHRANE: I'm a what? SPOCK: Her attitude when she approaches you is profoundly different than when she contacts us. Her appearance is soft, gentle. Her voice is melodic, pleasing. I do not totally understand the emotion, but it obviously exists. The Companion loves you. COCHRANE: Do you know what you're saying? For all these years, I've let something as alien as that crawl around inside me, into my mind, my feelings. KIRK: What are you complaining about? It kept you alive. COCHRANE: That thing fed on me. It used me. It's disgusting. MCCOY: There's nothing disgusting about it. It's just another life form, that's all. You get used to those things. COCHRANE: You're as bad as it is. SPOCK: Your highly emotional reaction is most illogical. Your relationship with the Companion has for one hundred and fifty years been emotionally satisfying, eminently practical, and totally harmless. It may indeed have been quite beneficial. COCHRANE: Is this what the future holds? Men who have no notion of decency or morality? Maybe I'm a hundred and fifty years out of style, but I'm not going to be fodder for any inhuman monster. (leaves) SPOCK: Fascinating. A totally parochial attitude. NANCY: Doctor. Doctor. MCCOY: Right here, Miss Hedford. NANCY: I heard him. He was loved and he resents it. MCCOY: You just rest. NANCY: No. I don't want to die. I've been good at my job, but I've never been loved. Never. What kind of life is that? Not to be loved, never to have shown love? And he runs away from love. (cries)
The scene in Strange New Worlds where M'Benga and Sam Kirk discuss 'studying' the Gorn with a phaser: 'How else would we determine how best to kill them?' 'I would like to aid you in that study.' I prefer Star Trek characters to *not* sound like 40K Space Marines.
I don't even know what 40k is but I get you.
Ezri to Bashir "If Worf hadn't come along, it would've been you." It's such a nice guy fantasy saying that if you just wait your turn, you'll get the girl.
> How do you wanna be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright brothers? Elon Musk? Zefran Cochrane?
*"Risk is our business."* No Kirk, it *isn't*. *Responsibility* is your business. You're a STARSHIP CAPTAIN!
Well as a leftist I'm often at odds with Odo. It's hilarious that his nemesis is Quark because both represent types beliefs I despise. Good characters though for the most part, especially Quark but this quote always comes to mind. DS9: Bar Association - *"From what Chief O'Brien tells me about strikes, they sound like trouble. I don't like mobs. In my opinion, if you need one to get what you want, it's not worth getting."* Such a fashy comment. I can go episodes really enjoying Odo and he'll say something like that and snap me back to reality. I blame the framing by the writers which underplays the implications of these types of statements.
The most cringy comment was in Star Trek TNG "Q Who?" when they first encounter the Borg. While being attacked, Riker stupidly says, "they're carving us up like a roast." Dumbest moment in Star Trek.
"Carving a roast" is a common phrase in the US, maybe not where you're from?
Would you rather they be carved like "a first contact day salmon"?
What makes that line stupid to you?
I don't see what's wrong with that analogy.
what?? I did not dislike that line, it made sense to me
I don't eat roast a lot (or at all, I can't stand it) but roasts are supposed to be shredded, not sliced right?
Not necessarily. Roast Beef for a sandwitch would be sliced or shaved. Alot of your buffets also have someone carving roast beef. These are just a couple of examples.
These are the important considerations humanity will need to settle before moving forward.
LOL right
Absolutely not
"Because the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" from Search for Spock. Not because of the content of the line, but because of the context. The balance between the needs of the many and the needs/rights of the few is a classic and continual ethical and political question. But the film has this line as if it's the profound theme of the film when it isn't. The needs of the many aren't hurt by the needs of the one or the few over the course of the film. It's just a reverse of Spock's line from Wrath of Khan without the appropriate themes to back it up.
No, I feel it was. A starship was stolen, and then destroyed. Another was sabotaged. Starfleet personnel were incapacitated and their systems were degraded. Starfleet was hurt from the inside out, by those they trusted most. And yet, Kirk knew that Starfleet’s readiness as a whole would most likely not be impacted. No one was killed on his way out. Klingons were not expected to be encountered so the *Enterprise’s* destruction was not calculated. The *Excelsior* could be easily repaired once they figured out what was wrong. Nothing Kirk did permanently damaged the Federation, and that was where the needs of the many became outweighed. And Kirk lost his only son, so it’s not like he got away with it all. Sarek said: “One alive, one not. Yet both in pain.” Kirk knew that McCoy would never recover, be himself again, because he carried Spock’s *katra.* He also then realized that if Spock’s body could be recovered, there might be a chance his *katra* could be rejoined to his body. So perhaps not the “needs of the one” but definitely of two. “What you ask… is difficult.” “You will find a way, Kirk. If you honor them both… you must.” *** “Kirk. I thank you. What you have done is…” “What I did… I had to do.” “But at what cost? Your ship. Your son.” “If I hadn’t tried… the cost would have been my soul.”
What you are describing to me is the needs of the one/few vs the needs of the other one/few. Or even the conflicting needs within one person. Not the many vs the few. As you say, Starfleet (the many) wasn't hurt. Kirk (a one) was hurt. So it's either Kirk's needs vs Spock's needs or it's Kirk's needs for his ship vs his need for Spock. Either way, it's not putting the many in conflict with the few. It's the few vs the few.
Maybe that’s the lesson. The needs of the one can only outweigh the needs of the many if the many will not be harmed. Which is common sense, but I suppose that Kirk, being a Starfleet admiral, had an immense amount of power that he had to make sure that, when he exercised it, didn’t run over others.
[удалено]
It’s not just about grit. Of course an organisation like Section 31 would exist. The Federation isn’t perfect. I mean it’s basically just the CIA. No major power goes without a clandestine & immoral intelligence service. Hell, without the amount of evil admirals in Starfleet, it makes even more sense.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
“It’s been a long wayyy….”
No more blah blah blah!! —Capt. James T. Kirk
I didn't beat him. I busted him up.
"The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible." It bothered me that T'pol was so stuck on that for 2 reasons, one because she witnessed so much evidence to the contrary and two a good scientist should be open to challenging existing ideas with new ideas