I guess I'm an alien then 😆 but to be fair TNG isn't my favourite, I'm more B'elanna Torres autistic (everyone thinks you're angry all of the time, but _are you_ really?)
Sure, a lot of it is the angry Klingon thing, but we do get a lot of episodes showing us what Torres is thinking, and most of those times it's not, "I'm angry!" Like there were a bunch episodes about her being depressed, and in all of them she acted angry, but we see that she's depressed instead of angry. So we know it's not just 'Klingon anger' because we can see that she's not actually angry.
Do all Klingons genuinely feel angry? Or do all Klingons lash out in anger when they feel other things? I think it's hard to say, since Torres and Worf are sort of the only two who we actually get to see their emotional state behind the anger on a regular basis. And neither are 'true' Klingons anyway.
Whether or not we can say she's autistic-coded, or more specifically, whether the writers *intended* her to be autistic-coded, I'm gonna say likely not. Autism wasn't understood like that when this show was written. But it's certainly possible that one or more of the writers modeled her after themselves or someone they knew who is autistic.
But yeah, you're probably correct that the writers weren't thinking that deep and were relying on stereotypes.
Oh, no! I didn't think you were. Also, I agree. I find her more relatable than Data as well. There are more autism-types than 'android who doesn't understand people'.
Edit: I just got carried away in the discussion and lost track of the original topic. 😅
I mean, isn’t Data’s character about him learning to be human? Doesn’t he purposely blur the line between man and machine and make both the characters and audience wonder just how, “human”, he can be?
Like, he is supposed to be relatable.
TNG started when I was 7 and ended when I was 14.
*I* was learning to be human myself during those years so Data helped with that and then Picard for the morals.
I think I turned out OK :-)
I think seven of nine is a much better representation of many people with asd.
Strong thinking skills but struggling to recognize how others think in different ways. Data lacks emotion, but seven just suppressed it a bit and finds it frustrating to reconcile.
She learns social graces from social stories, is hyper obsessed with her own specific interests, and relieves anxiety through isolation and routine.
Of course! I qualified it with “I think” and “many”.
All discussions surrounding mental conditions should keep the emphasis on spectrum.
There are no absolutes or binary truths.
I was diagnosed with ADD and later ADHD, and just recently learned that im just autistic.
Tbh, just trust ur own feelings on this, if you feel differently.
I gotchu.
Mythology, Autism, and Star Trek's "Darmok" - Astrid Lundberg
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHMNGMFZQeQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHMNGMFZQeQ)
Sorry, it was Lily Orchard's video on Delicious in Dungeon, where she claimes that Laios was bad representation. She took it down and edited it so that part isn't there anymore, but someone got a screenshot of the graph she used.
[https://twitter.com/HatokTalk/status/1788074216954491310](https://twitter.com/HatokTalk/status/1788074216954491310)
Bro also has VERY different view on Klingon’s honor. Of course he was raised by humans but still, his version of klingon honor is like… honorable, whole most other klingons are rat bastards (affectionately)
In IRL terms, Worf has western honor, and Klingons have eastern honor. Worf cares about *being* honorable, Klingons care about *appearing* honorable (aka face honor).
Sorry it was a more controversial video by Lily Orchard on Delicious in Dungeon. She placed Data on a spectrum of what she considered to be good autistic representation, all while claiming that Laios is bad representation.
I actually started watching Star Trek after I got my autism diagnosis because I heard others autistic people love it. And I’m so glad I did!
I really relate to Data, Spock and Seven of Nine.
Idk about that. Perhaps we compile different data. And that's okay. I data log my human stuff to the extreme: my diet, my waste (color, composition, frequency, weight), and I do social data which is really trying on my psyche ATM. Suppose it's not a secret as to why.
Anyway, if you're doing compiling in your way, that's lovely. I don't know many people who are as into it as I am. Just, good for you and I hope I'm not the worst bee you've come across
Me too. Maybe I should start, but I think like social data I just may get more depressed. I'll do it anyway, just because I think I'd like to and I enjoy it
It's cool. And I was, though frankly I have a tendency to stare at a terminal running a program compile and just trying to pick out certain aspects of the process.
Honestly we may have more in common than I thought, but I'm just manual bc I like that aspect of plugging it in as if I have control. I hope that isn't insulting!
Take care homey
I swear half the main characters on Star Trek are either on the spectrum or autism coded - Data, Spock, McCoy, Worf, Geordie, Wesley, The Doctor, Bashir, Odo, Rom, Janeway, 7 of 9, Kim.
Having the same thought about it Rom, up until now I had always read him as being himbo coded because he meets the three criteria: broad of shoulders, pure of heart, and dumb of ass.
Don't forget that TNG introduced us to Counselor Troi. She has the magic alien super-power of being able to tell what people are feeling based on their social cues and facial expressions.
I know that people make fun of it when someone finishes yelling at Picard and Troi says "I'm sensing a lot of anger from him." But it always seemed like a subtle trick to explicitly inform the parts of the audience that aren't very good at reading the tone.
McCoy gives me those vibes cause he got like that older curmudgeonly aspie type thing going on, know what I mean - like that guy who never got diagnosed but always likes things a particular way and prefers being in his own space etc. Idk that's just me, not saying he is or he isn't, necessarily.
He also hated any sort of change or new technology, and any sort of request to perform tasks outside of his comfort zone, etc.
I think a lot of that developed more as the series and movies went on, though. Early Spock has trouble understanding social cues and human emotions, etc., but as the character progresses it morphs more into him just actively suppressing those things (i.e., he goes from very autism-coded to less), where meanwhile early McCoy is the voice of emotion and empathy, but as the series goes on he becomes more of the curmudgeon you are talking about (i.e., he goes from less autism-coded to more).
Oh my god, not everyone has autism. This line of thinking is so damn silly. My girlfriend who has minor autism and a few siblings with more severe autism agrees. Just because somebody is socially awkward or quirky doesn’t mean they are autistic. Just stop.
The seven-year-old me being dressed up as Data at a birthday party I was invited to by the kid's parents because they felt bad for me, realising I'm the only one who dressed up at all, much less in a cheap body suit costume I refused to give up because I was terrified I'd never find clothes that reflected my personality ever again...
...acknowledges your point...but also begs to differ.
I'm here to make my bid for AuDHD Jim Kirk! Mostly I started looking at him that way due to the conversation w Gary Mitchell where he's like lol I set you up w a nice girl so you would chill out in class and you can SEE his face freeze. Like he's realizing oh no. I thought this guy was one of my best friends? But he's been manipulating me casually for LITERALLY YEARS. I always thought he was the ADHD to Spock's Autism (you know how that happens😅) but that situation made me go...huh. this bitch autistic! And now I can't unsee it.
I'm not sure I said he's Autistic... I'm just saying I resonate with things he said, mostly around struggling with social things.
I guess I did actually say it. My apologies
Look, I'll be level with you, anyone who does *not* find Data relatable is probably an alien. Data is the best.
He is a pretty android and a good android.
I will feed him
Come here spot.
He likes android supplement 404
I guess I'm an alien then 😆 but to be fair TNG isn't my favourite, I'm more B'elanna Torres autistic (everyone thinks you're angry all of the time, but _are you_ really?)
[удалено]
A lot of times she's lashing out because of other feelings. She's depressed, scared, nervous, horny, or whatever, so she acts angry.
[удалено]
Sure, a lot of it is the angry Klingon thing, but we do get a lot of episodes showing us what Torres is thinking, and most of those times it's not, "I'm angry!" Like there were a bunch episodes about her being depressed, and in all of them she acted angry, but we see that she's depressed instead of angry. So we know it's not just 'Klingon anger' because we can see that she's not actually angry. Do all Klingons genuinely feel angry? Or do all Klingons lash out in anger when they feel other things? I think it's hard to say, since Torres and Worf are sort of the only two who we actually get to see their emotional state behind the anger on a regular basis. And neither are 'true' Klingons anyway. Whether or not we can say she's autistic-coded, or more specifically, whether the writers *intended* her to be autistic-coded, I'm gonna say likely not. Autism wasn't understood like that when this show was written. But it's certainly possible that one or more of the writers modeled her after themselves or someone they knew who is autistic. But yeah, you're probably correct that the writers weren't thinking that deep and were relying on stereotypes.
Oh for sure: wasn't trying to claim that she was intended to be autistic coded. But I relate to her more than Data
Oh, no! I didn't think you were. Also, I agree. I find her more relatable than Data as well. There are more autism-types than 'android who doesn't understand people'. Edit: I just got carried away in the discussion and lost track of the original topic. 😅
No worries at all! 🖖✨
I feel like she has a reputation of being angry, but you rarely actually see her that way on camera? She's pretty much always curt but professional.
Oh man, now I'm trying to think if there are any Klingons who don't come off as having a touch of the tism if you think about it
I mean, isn’t Data’s character about him learning to be human? Doesn’t he purposely blur the line between man and machine and make both the characters and audience wonder just how, “human”, he can be? Like, he is supposed to be relatable.
TNG started when I was 7 and ended when I was 14. *I* was learning to be human myself during those years so Data helped with that and then Picard for the morals. I think I turned out OK :-)
Just like Abed from Community. They even use plays/movies to figure out how to socialize.
I was hoping Fred would be a regular character too
Well, I also wanted to bang Tasha Yar does that count?
I think we all did, buddy. We all did.
Data fr makes me smile sometimes even without doing anything
Like when he's at the con just doing his thing... you look at him and go, that's a Data in his element...😊
Lifeforms! Doo do do
I think seven of nine is a much better representation of many people with asd. Strong thinking skills but struggling to recognize how others think in different ways. Data lacks emotion, but seven just suppressed it a bit and finds it frustrating to reconcile. She learns social graces from social stories, is hyper obsessed with her own specific interests, and relieves anxiety through isolation and routine.
Can they not be both representatives of the spectrum of experiences that neurodivergent people go through?
Of course! I qualified it with “I think” and “many”. All discussions surrounding mental conditions should keep the emphasis on spectrum. There are no absolutes or binary truths.
I'm not diagnosed with this neuro divergence... only ADHD... but suddenly feel rather nervous at how hard this hit...
ADHD and autism can be comorbid and overlap in a lot of ways. Personally I have both and relate to data a ton lol
I was diagnosed with ADD and later ADHD, and just recently learned that im just autistic. Tbh, just trust ur own feelings on this, if you feel differently.
The two very often come hand in hand. In my experience, they come hand in hand like 70% of the time.
I think everyone relates to Data, that's what makes him such a compelling character!
Link the video, please.
I gotchu. Mythology, Autism, and Star Trek's "Darmok" - Astrid Lundberg [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHMNGMFZQeQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHMNGMFZQeQ)
Thank you!
Sorry, it was Lily Orchard's video on Delicious in Dungeon, where she claimes that Laios was bad representation. She took it down and edited it so that part isn't there anymore, but someone got a screenshot of the graph she used. [https://twitter.com/HatokTalk/status/1788074216954491310](https://twitter.com/HatokTalk/status/1788074216954491310)
Thank you!
You're welcome. Just to be clear, I don't agree with it at all. I've just read a lot of discourse on this.
I relate more to Worf, I swear the boy is autistic too. I mean Data is not autistic he’s just an android
"Did you hear? Keiko's gonna have another baby!" "NOW?!"
Bro also has VERY different view on Klingon’s honor. Of course he was raised by humans but still, his version of klingon honor is like… honorable, whole most other klingons are rat bastards (affectionately)
In IRL terms, Worf has western honor, and Klingons have eastern honor. Worf cares about *being* honorable, Klingons care about *appearing* honorable (aka face honor).
Sounds weird
You could probably do a whole series of documentaries comparing and contrasting the various warrior castes and cultures here on Earth.
Pretty sure I know exactly what vid this in relation to, is it Mythology, Autism, and StarTrek's "Darmok" by Astrid Lundberg?
Sorry it was a more controversial video by Lily Orchard on Delicious in Dungeon. She placed Data on a spectrum of what she considered to be good autistic representation, all while claiming that Laios is bad representation.
Whose Laios?
I actually started watching Star Trek after I got my autism diagnosis because I heard others autistic people love it. And I’m so glad I did! I really relate to Data, Spock and Seven of Nine.
I relate to Data so hard I compile data for fun
... Is thst why I prefer Gentoo as a Linux? For the Compiling screens?
Idk about that. Perhaps we compile different data. And that's okay. I data log my human stuff to the extreme: my diet, my waste (color, composition, frequency, weight), and I do social data which is really trying on my psyche ATM. Suppose it's not a secret as to why. Anyway, if you're doing compiling in your way, that's lovely. I don't know many people who are as into it as I am. Just, good for you and I hope I'm not the worst bee you've come across
Information is the key to most things... My brain just locks up on it. I wish I was more like thst with my financial data.
Me too. Maybe I should start, but I think like social data I just may get more depressed. I'll do it anyway, just because I think I'd like to and I enjoy it
Shit you were joking, weren't you? 😞 Fml
It's cool. And I was, though frankly I have a tendency to stare at a terminal running a program compile and just trying to pick out certain aspects of the process.
Honestly we may have more in common than I thought, but I'm just manual bc I like that aspect of plugging it in as if I have control. I hope that isn't insulting! Take care homey
I swear half the main characters on Star Trek are either on the spectrum or autism coded - Data, Spock, McCoy, Worf, Geordie, Wesley, The Doctor, Bashir, Odo, Rom, Janeway, 7 of 9, Kim.
You forgot Barcley. (HOW DID I NOT GET ROM BEFORE NOW????)
Not main, but you're absolutely right.
Opps sorry, missed that part somehow 😂🤣😂
Having the same thought about it Rom, up until now I had always read him as being himbo coded because he meets the three criteria: broad of shoulders, pure of heart, and dumb of ass.
Janeway?
Don't forget that TNG introduced us to Counselor Troi. She has the magic alien super-power of being able to tell what people are feeling based on their social cues and facial expressions.
I know that people make fun of it when someone finishes yelling at Picard and Troi says "I'm sensing a lot of anger from him." But it always seemed like a subtle trick to explicitly inform the parts of the audience that aren't very good at reading the tone.
Can you explain McCoy? I googled and only found an article behind a paywall
McCoy gives me those vibes cause he got like that older curmudgeonly aspie type thing going on, know what I mean - like that guy who never got diagnosed but always likes things a particular way and prefers being in his own space etc. Idk that's just me, not saying he is or he isn't, necessarily.
He also hated any sort of change or new technology, and any sort of request to perform tasks outside of his comfort zone, etc. I think a lot of that developed more as the series and movies went on, though. Early Spock has trouble understanding social cues and human emotions, etc., but as the character progresses it morphs more into him just actively suppressing those things (i.e., he goes from very autism-coded to less), where meanwhile early McCoy is the voice of emotion and empathy, but as the series goes on he becomes more of the curmudgeon you are talking about (i.e., he goes from less autism-coded to more).
Damn, you just described my dad. I wonder where I got it from 😐
Damnit Jim, I'm autistic, not an android! 😁
Oh my god, not everyone has autism. This line of thinking is so damn silly. My girlfriend who has minor autism and a few siblings with more severe autism agrees. Just because somebody is socially awkward or quirky doesn’t mean they are autistic. Just stop.
Tbf it kinda does the way round you've put it.
data: ...hm!! *highpitched* me: lol mood, that's a 'i'm filing that away for future reference' noise
Great scene. Men In Black 3 is legit.
I like Data, but I was more of a Geordi-stan myself.
The seven-year-old me being dressed up as Data at a birthday party I was invited to by the kid's parents because they felt bad for me, realising I'm the only one who dressed up at all, much less in a cheap body suit costume I refused to give up because I was terrified I'd never find clothes that reflected my personality ever again... ...acknowledges your point...but also begs to differ.
https://i.imgur.com/JWocYhE.gif
I'm here to make my bid for AuDHD Jim Kirk! Mostly I started looking at him that way due to the conversation w Gary Mitchell where he's like lol I set you up w a nice girl so you would chill out in class and you can SEE his face freeze. Like he's realizing oh no. I thought this guy was one of my best friends? But he's been manipulating me casually for LITERALLY YEARS. I always thought he was the ADHD to Spock's Autism (you know how that happens😅) but that situation made me go...huh. this bitch autistic! And now I can't unsee it.
Data... Also Dexter from Dexter. Not the unaliving part, but the general internal monologue
Dexter isn’t autistic, he’s a fucking psychopath. What is it with people looking to assign everyone as autistic?
I'm not sure I said he's Autistic... I'm just saying I resonate with things he said, mostly around struggling with social things. I guess I did actually say it. My apologies