kinda baffling me, too, but im guessing it's for predictability? they mentioned the car didn't stall when they expected it to, which may be undesired and caught them off guard. still probably better to just get used to the system ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
After learning that the non stall technology has been around for decades, I guess it’s just the hill start assist that bugs me. I enjoy the normal hill starts when you go backwards (I don’t live in San Francisco). I feel like it gave me several thrills per day. But I guess you can wait out the hill assist in a vw so I’ll just practice that.
My old car was a 99 Saab and it was much more sensitive. So, it seems like someone doesn’t even need to learn stick to figure out how to drive my new car. As long as you remove the clutch slowly it’s a guarantee no stall which I’m just not familiar with. I just feel like there have been a couple of times with the car when I should have stalled and I didn’t and it kinda makes me feel like it’s basically an automatic car.
Perhaps I’m just kinda a purist, but it’s admirable that so many people here are adapting with the times.
Lmao parked behind a Jeep yesterday and my partner started reading their window sticker "I drive a stick. If I roll into you, you're too close!"
I told her if you roll back on a hill you suck at driving stick. I drive hills in SF. Sometimes I need to use the parking brake to help on extremely steep hills but on a normal hill I don't roll back at all ever even without it.
Yeah one of my first weeks learning to drive stick my dad brought me to a friends house at a lake and their driveway was one of the steepest inclines I’ve ever seen. He made me pull up almost to the garage before I started to flatten out and told me to reverse out. I didn’t roll forward at all. Hills never once rolled back. Either just move your feet or if your feet aren’t fast enough use the parking brake
I get it, I was like that too when I got my first manual. It'll wear off and you'll learn to appreciate it. This whole sub is a little too obsessed with the fact that they can drive stick. Just try to drive the car no matter what transmission or features it has and you'll start to like that it's there.
Edit: I'll add this in case you haven't tried it yet and want to roll. In my 09 Subaru, the hill start assist was deactivated by the hand brake. So if you pull it up just enough to trip the sensor but not enough to apply the brake it may roll.
I’m with you. It’s not that you want to challenge yourself (driving stick is incredibly easy,) it just works better without the computer trying to help. I disabled the hill start assist on my car because I know how to work gas and clutch on a hill, but I do not necessarily know how to work around a computer. It’s just easier to do it yourself
You're excited by being bad at this and want the car to let you be worse?
Look just get a different car before you hurt yourself. Or just shut the fuck up and drive your car like a normal person.
I guess OP wants to experience all the challenges of stick and feels that the new tech in modern manuals take away/defeat that purpose of driving stick.
I have a 2012 Jetta TDI and loathe Hill start assist so much that I got obd11 and programmed it off. It caused so many stalls as it would activate for the tiniest hill. It would hold the brake at whatever pressure you used, so if you had the pedal down harder than absolutely necessary to hold yourself then it would hold that for 2 seconds.... If you had the brake pushed harder then you'd have to overcome that or wait. Annoying AF as there's a handbrake right there if it's needed.
Amazingly my 2018 ram 3500 has it where I can turn it off via the uconnect multifunction display. The 6.7 diesel can overcome quite a bit so if have to really stomp the brake for it to be able to hold the truck back
Yeah, we have read that there are some cars that automatically rev the engine as you downshift, and want to make sure it's not some dumb-down feature like that
Exactly! I thought that’s why people choose to drive stick
Like I think it’s fun to have challenges like hills and stalling from time to time when I’m not super focused (this is coming from someone who isn’t a car guy but just likes driving)
Have you noticed that the Jetta roof is such that if it's rained and it is wet, and you get in and drive away with the driver's window open, the water on the roof pours into the window? Just seems unlucky
Yeah, I understand it. All of the thought involved with driving a stick well means always considering those little things... If it's not even possible to make a mistake as a computer will override me, then I feel like it would just take the fun away to me. Plus, I like how, in a manual, you ARE the brain of the car. If it's got a computer correcting you all the time, then you're not really the brain in full control. It seems counter-intuitive to what it means to drive a stick, at least in a country that is dominated by automatics. If I didn't want to have to think about my driving as much, I'd buy an automatic.
Thank you! I feel seen! I should have added something like that to my original post that would have made it more clear. Like the new features feel dystopian to me. It feels like a fake driving experience (specifically my anecdote in the post) where I dont deserve to be taking off if in my old car I 100% would have stalled in that situation. I want the real thing or I don’t want a stick at all. I would choose to walk instead as technology can’t take the realness out of that.
I am sitting here shocked to learn car companies can't even let manuals be manuals anymore, now... wtf? I mean, gee, why not have the computer operate the clutch and move the lever for you, too? Argh. God forbid anyone actually be allowed to gain a hard earned skill.
Yep, I understood what you meant immediately. I'm weary of even buying a car newer than, say, 2005 or so... I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of too many computers running the show. I want to be able to learn to fix whatever. I want it to be mechanical pieces you can take apart and repair, not expensive computer components on everything that you just have to replace or have very expensive equipment to attempt to repair it. I want metal and tubes and wires and knobs where I know what they do and how they work. That's part of the charm of a manual to me, it's fundamentally not complicated. I could crack open my transmission if I really had to and order the gears to do my own rebuild. Of the 2 cars I have owned in my life, my current is the newest as a 2002. Prior to that, it was a 1996 (an automatic, unfortunately, but I was gifted that car. I bought my 2002 in 2019 with my own money). I want my next car purchase to be even older. I read about stuff like rev hang from drive-by-wire systems, and I am thankful to not relate... I've never owned a drive-by-wire car! I hope I never do.
Sorry, that was a lot, but I'm very passionate about older cars. Right to repair doesn't mean shit if no one other than a dealership knows how to fix it, and if you only need a seal for a transmission, but have to buy the whole rebuild to get the part... I think a lot of manual owners understand this stuff, but too many everyday drivers just throw the whole car away the first time a slightly bigger repair bill pops up.
Your title is not very clear. Are you looking to stall the vehicle? If yes, release the clutch while pressing the brake pedal. I’m sure you will successfully stall.
or in these Jettas, try to get going when the hill start assist is still holding the brakes (for two seconds). That's the only time I've stalled mine so far :D
No, I have successfully stalled on purpose. I guess it’s ultimately the hill-start assist that id like to turn off after reading more educated peoples comments/advice. But I know it’ll probably be easier to get used to it than to learn how to code lulz
In Europe, Audis have a switch to turn off the hill assist, but I'm unsure how it could.be retrofitted in a US car. I'd be willing to bet you'd need to reactivate the switch Everytime you turn the car on too, just like the auto start/stop
I hated the hill assist when I got my current car, but after a few months you'll figure it out. It's about a 2-3 delay from the time you take your foot off the break that the hill assist will deactivate and your car will roll backwards as normal. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get over this.
In Europe, Audis have a switch to turn off the hill assist, but I'm unsure how it could.be retrofitted in a US car. I'd be willing to bet you'd need to reactivate the switch Everytime you turn the car on too, just like the auto start/stop
I hated the hill assist when I got my current car, but after a few months you'll figure it out. It's about a 2-3 delay from the time you take your foot off the break that the hill assist will deactivate and your car will roll backwards as normal. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get over this.
All manuals do this. The engine idles at approximately 1000 rpm. If you slowly remove your foot of the clutch without adding gas and not letting the rpm's drop, the car will start to roll forward. It should go about 5mph after the clutch is fully released.
I'm assuming this is what op is talking about. Has nothing to do with new cars, I've done this with cars from the 80's that had carburetors, all the way to my 2022.
OP has actual anti stall, similar to the new mustang GT and focus RS. It’ll basically add 1000-1500 RPMs automatically to avoid stalling, as opposed to cars without it; yes it’ll roll without the throttle, but you can easily stall that way.
Yeah that’s still anti stall, the amount of RPMs I think depends how fast you’re letting out the clutch too. Faster it’ll add more I think, but every other car the RPMs will drop if it doesn’t have that
By the way, these Jettas are known for the engine's low-end torque in contrast to my old car where the torque peaks at several thousand rpm. So to some extent the lack of stalling could be because of that and not because the ECU has dumbed down the clutch operation.
I'll let some more of a car enthusiast elaborate but,
* my 2010 Kia Forte has 168 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm
* the 2024 VW Jetta Sport has 184 lb.-ft. of torque at 1750 rpm
So the Jetta has more torque, and the engine doesn't have to rev as high above idle to start generating torque (and torque more than hp is what gets you going from a stop). I believe it has something to do with being turbocharged. It also makes driving it more like driving a diesel (which is also known for being hard to stall) which would make sense for a VW.
Finally, my Kia idles at around 500 rpm while the Jetta idles at around 800 or 900, so if you let out the clutch with no throttle not only is the Jetta generating more torque even at idle, it doesn't have as far to rev to get the car moving since it has a higher idle in the first place.
No it has a lot of power at low rpms so it doesn't need gas. Big diesel trucks like semis have so much torque that the driver isn't supposed to add any throttle until they're moving.
The opposite, the car has more power at the low RPMs and that makes it harder to stall. Because stalling is the weight of the vehicle overpowering the engine power and forcing the engine to stop. More power, means the engine is more likely to win and force the vehicle to move instead. Way more power, and the engine wins the fight against the wheels, but the wheels also win the fight against the ground and star spinning in place. That's why revving up to high rpm and dumping the clutch can cause wheel spin or do a burnout .
SOME act that way, it’s kinda becoming more common though. Anti stall and EFI are different though, anti stall will actually give 1000 RPMs or whatever you need; EFI will allow you to super slowly release the clutch and get going, but nowhere near anti stall
Hill assist has to do with your brakes not the clutch, the car will sense you stopped on an incline and hold the brakes for a moment so you can get on the clutch and gas without stalling as easily as older vehicles.
I’ve found the the drive-by-wire pedal experience can make this a bit tricky when you first get one of these types, but if you learn the timing of the brake hold you’ll have no problems at all, it’s just a bit annoying when you want to get off a hair more quickly but the people behind you can honestly wait lol
Depending on the car, they might release the hill start assist when the gas pedal is pressed. My Subaru BRZ's is like this: it holds the brake for 2 seconds or so after I remove my foot from the brake, but then moment I start giving gas it releases the brake. So if I'm slow on the clutch release and give gas before the bite point I can still roll backwards.
With my GLI, which I imagine uses the same or similar programming to the Jetta here, doesn’t auto disengage so if you are holding too much throttle you rev up and off when the brakes let go lol
OP if you really wanna experience a manual that WILL let you stall, go drive any of the countless examples without anti stall. You basically got to learn on a car that’s significantly easier
If you slowly take your foot off the clutch on flat ground no manual will stall. The engine idles around 1000 rpm which is more than enough to roll the forward slowly.
Take your foot off the clutch quickly and see what happens. The sudden increase in torque should stall the motor
Hello,
I just got a 2024 Jetta Sport, and I also kept my 2010 Kia Forte, so I know what you're talking about.
I believe there is a way to get rid of the hill start assist using VCDS. I haven't looked into it further (don't want to start messing around with ODB-II with only 300 miles on the odometer).
As to the extra throttle as you let out the clutch, it's definitely noticeable and not something "all cars do" or at least my 2010 doesn't anywhere to the same extent. However, once the engine is warmed up it seems less noticeable or less aggressive at it?
Interesting. I haven’t driven more than like 20 minutes with it yet so I’ll have to experiment with it after a road trip.
Does your 2010 start moving forward if you let the clutch out real slow? I never tried this with my 99 but pretty sure it wouldn’t cuz she wanted you to give it a fair bit of gas or else you stalled, and I never let the clutch out fast unless I’m on a hill.
> Does your 2010 start moving forward if you let the clutch out real slow?
Yes, it does, but you have to be super conscious about it. Sometimes when the engine is really cold (and therefore the ECU is running it at fast-idle) I operate it like that just to get it out of my driveway. But like yours, on that 2010 it will definitely stall unless you take like 5-10 seconds to very gradually release the clutch as it gets moving.
My 2003 Jetta did this.
My 2009 GTI did this.
My 2001 Miata does this.
I'm sure my other manual cars do this too, but I haven't tested. It's nothing new
Yeah modern cars are very much more forgiving as they usually add a bit of gas while releasing the clutch unlike older cars where you have to do it yourself. I drive a 23 Jetta manual and it is the same. Also you can disable the shitty hill assist by using ODB11 and programming the ECU to fully remove it. Why there isn't any option in the menu is beyond me and I hated it as well. Especially the first time when I didn't know there was a hill assist so when I was trying to go through a parking garage and usually slip in the clutch while giving a gas and I kept stalling didn't think that the car was going to press the brake and hold it for literally 3 seconds.
Diesel engine don’t need gas once the clutch has been lifted. You can stay in first gear or even second and it will give it enough gas to maintain a minimum speed
Regular gasoline need more torque and in that case you will not stall but probably not go very far airboat pressing the gas pedal
I'm confused as to why this is an issue? What is this system preventing you from doing?
If you drive a manual well, then it's no problem because you'll never encounter it.
If you don't drive a manual well, then this system will unfuck the situation for you, at least enough to get the car moving, so also no problem right?
If you don't like the feeling of the car preventing you from stalling, then really the solution is to... not do things that make it have to step in to stop it stalling surely?
Kinda? But also if you can feel that the hillstart assist is kicking in then you can tell you've done it wrong.
I dunno, I've trained people to drive in modern manuals with hillstart assist/anti stall, and it hasn't been a problem in terms of learning to be good at manuals in general IMO. Though maybe Honda's assists are less aggressive than VWs?
Like people are saying: it gives you two seconds of levitating on the hill, but after two seconds are up it drops the function and turns into a regular stick. I haven’t done this yet but some people have completely dropped the clutch by the time the assist wears off so then they stall. It’s just misleading until you get used to it.
So it’s really just a champagne problem. I’m over all just confused why the car was basically not working and then all of a sudden I was speed racing away. My old car would one hundred percent tapped out in that situation. And I’m just using this discussion to figure out how I got there. So it seems like a combo of the hill start assist messing me up but mostly the anti stall tech that saved me from stalling and then all of a sudden I was moving like a bay out of hell.
I can't burn myself on my new stove. "I'm such a cooking purist,"
I can't cut myself with my new knife. "I'm such a purist,"
If you wanna struggle, don't buy new things and complain.
You're fortunate to even be able to buy such a car. Just enjoy it for what it is. Heck, some car manufactor just released a clutchless car. That's against my purity, which is the lack of the 3rd peddle.
Buy an old car if you wanna grind gears and stall. Baka.
Look, that was a joke.
it’s not like I started a gofundme. I’m not going to complain to anybody in real life because I don’t want to come off as you are perceiving this bc you’re actually right I am extremely fortunate, I posted to “r/stickshift” to learn about something and ask for advice. It’s okay to complain about a problem even if there are bigger problems in the world. Just do it to the right people, and I was hoping this would be the right group which it mostly has. I’m not saying woe is me. But you’re right I probably should have just bought another Saab to avoid this. I’m being a bit ignorant for sure
> if you take your foot slowly off the clutch and keep your right foot not touching the gas pedal at all, the car moves forward
I'm sure you've found some driver-assist tech, but the way you describe this part is... also how my 1980 Goldwing works. If you slip the clutch enough to keep the engine from stalling, but let it engage enough to start moving, you start moving without stalling. It's basically the same as any other takeoff, just slowly reducing the difference in inertia between the two sides of the clutch instead of increasing the engine side and engaging more rapidly.
VWs have the best manual transmissions. Super-smooth shifts, the clutch is neither too light nor too hard. They are so easy to drive. I'm sure you can stall it if you try but most other manuals are much easier to stall. I owned many manual cars so I had something to compare to.
Every car is different. I had a 2002 Civic Si and a 2008 Mazda 3. The Mazda was almost un-stallable. The Civic would stall extremely easy. That K20 had almost no power below 3000 RPM.
Volkswagen especially has fine tuned their ECM control because they have used the DSG transmissions for years, they've been able to model the engine management to handle all sorts of drivers and conditions and giving the user control of the clutch doesn't affect them as much as say a gm economy car.
I completely get the objective you're after... forget about the yahoos kncoking you for a having a new vehicle with all the annoying nanny features that you don't like.
I honestly understand. Shit like that in new vehicles drives me nuts just like that stupid revhang garbage. You just want to be able to drive the damn car without a ton of programming intervention.
Unforntunately, probably the only way you're gonna have to disable this stuff is to get one yourself or get with someone who has an OBD11 tool and do some reprogramming on the ECU.
Everyone's ranting about how all this technology crap is great and blah blah blah but it makes for one helluva annoying driving experience if you're used to driving stuff where YOU control what it does.
Alright 2 people have said *Modern manuals* but it's nothing to do with the transmission.
The vehicle alters throttle to prevent stalling, whether it's due to a poor driver, a clogged air filter, a really cold start, you name it. It's a modern car thing, not a modern *manual* car thing. Computer wants idle at X rpm, it'll do it regardless of any external factors, or try to at least.
Would you agree with me that the Jetta engine's low end torque (184 lb.ft. at 1750 rpm) could be why it seems hard to stall as opposed to a deliberate feature trying to make for easy clutch operation?
Can you define "modern" for me? I've noticed that when many people say modern cars, they mean like anywhere from like 2012 to 2015 and up or so. Some people seem to mean anything newer than 2000. It throws me off, since I drive a 2002, I never know if it falls into that "modern car" category (I don't think it does, though, honestly. The gen 1 Xterras still have mechanical throttle bodies, in fact). I don't think my Xterra has any computer control over the throttle, since it's a mechanical valve, but I see people here saying their cars as old as '01 had anti-stall features like this.
Anything on the roads in my area is basically vintage and shocking to see still running if it's made before 2016 or so.
Rust is real here. Modern to me is basically current gen tech though.
I sincerely fail to see the issue here.
I’d check Jetta specific subs about the hill assist. On my car, if you turn on sport mode, it disables hill assist. But you have to press the drive mode button every time you start the car.
Throttle modulation, or whatever you want to call it, is programmed into modern cars specifically to keep the car from stalling in various situations. It’s a feature, not a bug.
Why would you want to stall your car?
kinda baffling me, too, but im guessing it's for predictability? they mentioned the car didn't stall when they expected it to, which may be undesired and caught them off guard. still probably better to just get used to the system ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
After learning that the non stall technology has been around for decades, I guess it’s just the hill start assist that bugs me. I enjoy the normal hill starts when you go backwards (I don’t live in San Francisco). I feel like it gave me several thrills per day. But I guess you can wait out the hill assist in a vw so I’ll just practice that. My old car was a 99 Saab and it was much more sensitive. So, it seems like someone doesn’t even need to learn stick to figure out how to drive my new car. As long as you remove the clutch slowly it’s a guarantee no stall which I’m just not familiar with. I just feel like there have been a couple of times with the car when I should have stalled and I didn’t and it kinda makes me feel like it’s basically an automatic car. Perhaps I’m just kinda a purist, but it’s admirable that so many people here are adapting with the times.
Rolling back on hill starts just means you don't have skill 😭😭 atleast that's what you broadcast in doing it.
I always do a little one if a car is pulling up behind me so they don't get directly on my bumper if, god forbid, something does go wrong lol
Hey I do this too! Glad to know I'm not the only one!
I do it intentionally sometimes if I need to reverse a lil, but with the car in neutral tho lol
I always start in reverse at red lights to scare people. Just kidding... Or do I... 🙂
I have drive rigged up to turn the white reverse lights on. Makes people leave a good gap behind me at red lights!
Nah I prefer to point my headlights at them
Lmao parked behind a Jeep yesterday and my partner started reading their window sticker "I drive a stick. If I roll into you, you're too close!" I told her if you roll back on a hill you suck at driving stick. I drive hills in SF. Sometimes I need to use the parking brake to help on extremely steep hills but on a normal hill I don't roll back at all ever even without it.
Heel toe your hill starts to assert dominance
Congrats!
Yeah one of my first weeks learning to drive stick my dad brought me to a friends house at a lake and their driveway was one of the steepest inclines I’ve ever seen. He made me pull up almost to the garage before I started to flatten out and told me to reverse out. I didn’t roll forward at all. Hills never once rolled back. Either just move your feet or if your feet aren’t fast enough use the parking brake
You can program out the hill assist if you want, but you have to buy an OBD11 or a Vagcom to do it.
Most vehicles have a way to turn it off. My 2016 wrx let's me turn it off. Just a sequence you have to look in the manual for.
Not in VW’s.
I get it, I was like that too when I got my first manual. It'll wear off and you'll learn to appreciate it. This whole sub is a little too obsessed with the fact that they can drive stick. Just try to drive the car no matter what transmission or features it has and you'll start to like that it's there. Edit: I'll add this in case you haven't tried it yet and want to roll. In my 09 Subaru, the hill start assist was deactivated by the hand brake. So if you pull it up just enough to trip the sensor but not enough to apply the brake it may roll.
what in the world
I’m with you. It’s not that you want to challenge yourself (driving stick is incredibly easy,) it just works better without the computer trying to help. I disabled the hill start assist on my car because I know how to work gas and clutch on a hill, but I do not necessarily know how to work around a computer. It’s just easier to do it yourself
You're excited by being bad at this and want the car to let you be worse? Look just get a different car before you hurt yourself. Or just shut the fuck up and drive your car like a normal person.
I hope you find internal peace.
All my newer cars have/had hill assist and I can make them roll back easily. Hill stats assist only works if you engage it in the correct sequence.
I guess OP wants to experience all the challenges of stick and feels that the new tech in modern manuals take away/defeat that purpose of driving stick.
I have a 2012 Jetta TDI and loathe Hill start assist so much that I got obd11 and programmed it off. It caused so many stalls as it would activate for the tiniest hill. It would hold the brake at whatever pressure you used, so if you had the pedal down harder than absolutely necessary to hold yourself then it would hold that for 2 seconds.... If you had the brake pushed harder then you'd have to overcome that or wait. Annoying AF as there's a handbrake right there if it's needed. Amazingly my 2018 ram 3500 has it where I can turn it off via the uconnect multifunction display. The 6.7 diesel can overcome quite a bit so if have to really stomp the brake for it to be able to hold the truck back
Yeah, we have read that there are some cars that automatically rev the engine as you downshift, and want to make sure it's not some dumb-down feature like that
Exactly! I thought that’s why people choose to drive stick Like I think it’s fun to have challenges like hills and stalling from time to time when I’m not super focused (this is coming from someone who isn’t a car guy but just likes driving)
Have you noticed that the Jetta roof is such that if it's rained and it is wet, and you get in and drive away with the driver's window open, the water on the roof pours into the window? Just seems unlucky
No, haven’t driven in the rain yet, but will watch out for that lol.
You can turn off hill assist on many cars…
Yeah, I understand it. All of the thought involved with driving a stick well means always considering those little things... If it's not even possible to make a mistake as a computer will override me, then I feel like it would just take the fun away to me. Plus, I like how, in a manual, you ARE the brain of the car. If it's got a computer correcting you all the time, then you're not really the brain in full control. It seems counter-intuitive to what it means to drive a stick, at least in a country that is dominated by automatics. If I didn't want to have to think about my driving as much, I'd buy an automatic.
Thank you! I feel seen! I should have added something like that to my original post that would have made it more clear. Like the new features feel dystopian to me. It feels like a fake driving experience (specifically my anecdote in the post) where I dont deserve to be taking off if in my old car I 100% would have stalled in that situation. I want the real thing or I don’t want a stick at all. I would choose to walk instead as technology can’t take the realness out of that.
I am sitting here shocked to learn car companies can't even let manuals be manuals anymore, now... wtf? I mean, gee, why not have the computer operate the clutch and move the lever for you, too? Argh. God forbid anyone actually be allowed to gain a hard earned skill.
Yep, I understood what you meant immediately. I'm weary of even buying a car newer than, say, 2005 or so... I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of too many computers running the show. I want to be able to learn to fix whatever. I want it to be mechanical pieces you can take apart and repair, not expensive computer components on everything that you just have to replace or have very expensive equipment to attempt to repair it. I want metal and tubes and wires and knobs where I know what they do and how they work. That's part of the charm of a manual to me, it's fundamentally not complicated. I could crack open my transmission if I really had to and order the gears to do my own rebuild. Of the 2 cars I have owned in my life, my current is the newest as a 2002. Prior to that, it was a 1996 (an automatic, unfortunately, but I was gifted that car. I bought my 2002 in 2019 with my own money). I want my next car purchase to be even older. I read about stuff like rev hang from drive-by-wire systems, and I am thankful to not relate... I've never owned a drive-by-wire car! I hope I never do. Sorry, that was a lot, but I'm very passionate about older cars. Right to repair doesn't mean shit if no one other than a dealership knows how to fix it, and if you only need a seal for a transmission, but have to buy the whole rebuild to get the part... I think a lot of manual owners understand this stuff, but too many everyday drivers just throw the whole car away the first time a slightly bigger repair bill pops up.
Your title is not very clear. Are you looking to stall the vehicle? If yes, release the clutch while pressing the brake pedal. I’m sure you will successfully stall.
or in these Jettas, try to get going when the hill start assist is still holding the brakes (for two seconds). That's the only time I've stalled mine so far :D
No, I have successfully stalled on purpose. I guess it’s ultimately the hill-start assist that id like to turn off after reading more educated peoples comments/advice. But I know it’ll probably be easier to get used to it than to learn how to code lulz
In Europe, Audis have a switch to turn off the hill assist, but I'm unsure how it could.be retrofitted in a US car. I'd be willing to bet you'd need to reactivate the switch Everytime you turn the car on too, just like the auto start/stop I hated the hill assist when I got my current car, but after a few months you'll figure it out. It's about a 2-3 delay from the time you take your foot off the break that the hill assist will deactivate and your car will roll backwards as normal. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get over this.
In Europe, Audis have a switch to turn off the hill assist, but I'm unsure how it could.be retrofitted in a US car. I'd be willing to bet you'd need to reactivate the switch Everytime you turn the car on too, just like the auto start/stop I hated the hill assist when I got my current car, but after a few months you'll figure it out. It's about a 2-3 delay from the time you take your foot off the break that the hill assist will deactivate and your car will roll backwards as normal. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get over this.
Why would you want to remove something that eases living?
All manuals do this. The engine idles at approximately 1000 rpm. If you slowly remove your foot of the clutch without adding gas and not letting the rpm's drop, the car will start to roll forward. It should go about 5mph after the clutch is fully released. I'm assuming this is what op is talking about. Has nothing to do with new cars, I've done this with cars from the 80's that had carburetors, all the way to my 2022.
OP has actual anti stall, similar to the new mustang GT and focus RS. It’ll basically add 1000-1500 RPMs automatically to avoid stalling, as opposed to cars without it; yes it’ll roll without the throttle, but you can easily stall that way.
So I double checked today. I think it adds only 200 rpms to not stall. But still sound like antistall as the rpms jump but I don’t add any gas.
Yeah that’s still anti stall, the amount of RPMs I think depends how fast you’re letting out the clutch too. Faster it’ll add more I think, but every other car the RPMs will drop if it doesn’t have that
Wait really? That’s kinda amazing. I wish I tried it on my last car which was a 99
By the way, these Jettas are known for the engine's low-end torque in contrast to my old car where the torque peaks at several thousand rpm. So to some extent the lack of stalling could be because of that and not because the ECU has dumbed down the clutch operation.
So basically the car isn’t that powerful so it doesn’t need much gas to work? Sorry I don’t know much about the mechanics?
I'll let some more of a car enthusiast elaborate but, * my 2010 Kia Forte has 168 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm * the 2024 VW Jetta Sport has 184 lb.-ft. of torque at 1750 rpm So the Jetta has more torque, and the engine doesn't have to rev as high above idle to start generating torque (and torque more than hp is what gets you going from a stop). I believe it has something to do with being turbocharged. It also makes driving it more like driving a diesel (which is also known for being hard to stall) which would make sense for a VW. Finally, my Kia idles at around 500 rpm while the Jetta idles at around 800 or 900, so if you let out the clutch with no throttle not only is the Jetta generating more torque even at idle, it doesn't have as far to rev to get the car moving since it has a higher idle in the first place.
Wow, thanks for taking the time to explain!
No it has a lot of power at low rpms so it doesn't need gas. Big diesel trucks like semis have so much torque that the driver isn't supposed to add any throttle until they're moving.
The opposite, the car has more power at the low RPMs and that makes it harder to stall. Because stalling is the weight of the vehicle overpowering the engine power and forcing the engine to stop. More power, means the engine is more likely to win and force the vehicle to move instead. Way more power, and the engine wins the fight against the wheels, but the wheels also win the fight against the ground and star spinning in place. That's why revving up to high rpm and dumping the clutch can cause wheel spin or do a burnout .
That’s that anti-stall in modern manuals
That’s how modern manual transmissions operate to my understanding. I’m not sure if there is a setting in the ECU that would change that.
SOME act that way, it’s kinda becoming more common though. Anti stall and EFI are different though, anti stall will actually give 1000 RPMs or whatever you need; EFI will allow you to super slowly release the clutch and get going, but nowhere near anti stall
Anti stall is an actual feature on some manuals. Most Don't though I don't think
"My car's too good"
Hill assist has to do with your brakes not the clutch, the car will sense you stopped on an incline and hold the brakes for a moment so you can get on the clutch and gas without stalling as easily as older vehicles. I’ve found the the drive-by-wire pedal experience can make this a bit tricky when you first get one of these types, but if you learn the timing of the brake hold you’ll have no problems at all, it’s just a bit annoying when you want to get off a hair more quickly but the people behind you can honestly wait lol
Depending on the car, they might release the hill start assist when the gas pedal is pressed. My Subaru BRZ's is like this: it holds the brake for 2 seconds or so after I remove my foot from the brake, but then moment I start giving gas it releases the brake. So if I'm slow on the clutch release and give gas before the bite point I can still roll backwards.
With my GLI, which I imagine uses the same or similar programming to the Jetta here, doesn’t auto disengage so if you are holding too much throttle you rev up and off when the brakes let go lol
That’s very common, just about manual in the past 15 or so years will add gas if you let out the clutch slowly.
My 06 car used to also do that. And my 99. Honestly I feel like that’s not new tech! Kinda surprised someone wants it tos tall?
You want us to teach you how to *stall* your car?
OP if you really wanna experience a manual that WILL let you stall, go drive any of the countless examples without anti stall. You basically got to learn on a car that’s significantly easier
I will literally beat you in a drag race
Not if you try and roll back back at the starting line.
Just remember to put it in r for race mode.
If you slowly take your foot off the clutch on flat ground no manual will stall. The engine idles around 1000 rpm which is more than enough to roll the forward slowly. Take your foot off the clutch quickly and see what happens. The sudden increase in torque should stall the motor
Hello, I just got a 2024 Jetta Sport, and I also kept my 2010 Kia Forte, so I know what you're talking about. I believe there is a way to get rid of the hill start assist using VCDS. I haven't looked into it further (don't want to start messing around with ODB-II with only 300 miles on the odometer). As to the extra throttle as you let out the clutch, it's definitely noticeable and not something "all cars do" or at least my 2010 doesn't anywhere to the same extent. However, once the engine is warmed up it seems less noticeable or less aggressive at it?
Interesting. I haven’t driven more than like 20 minutes with it yet so I’ll have to experiment with it after a road trip. Does your 2010 start moving forward if you let the clutch out real slow? I never tried this with my 99 but pretty sure it wouldn’t cuz she wanted you to give it a fair bit of gas or else you stalled, and I never let the clutch out fast unless I’m on a hill.
> Does your 2010 start moving forward if you let the clutch out real slow? Yes, it does, but you have to be super conscious about it. Sometimes when the engine is really cold (and therefore the ECU is running it at fast-idle) I operate it like that just to get it out of my driveway. But like yours, on that 2010 it will definitely stall unless you take like 5-10 seconds to very gradually release the clutch as it gets moving.
My 01 doesn't need the gas pedal to get moving when I let the clutch out slowly
Stalling makes us smile and laugh… highlight of my day haha
My 2003 Jetta did this. My 2009 GTI did this. My 2001 Miata does this. I'm sure my other manual cars do this too, but I haven't tested. It's nothing new
Yeah modern cars are very much more forgiving as they usually add a bit of gas while releasing the clutch unlike older cars where you have to do it yourself. I drive a 23 Jetta manual and it is the same. Also you can disable the shitty hill assist by using ODB11 and programming the ECU to fully remove it. Why there isn't any option in the menu is beyond me and I hated it as well. Especially the first time when I didn't know there was a hill assist so when I was trying to go through a parking garage and usually slip in the clutch while giving a gas and I kept stalling didn't think that the car was going to press the brake and hold it for literally 3 seconds.
There’s hope🙏🙏
Diesel engine don’t need gas once the clutch has been lifted. You can stay in first gear or even second and it will give it enough gas to maintain a minimum speed Regular gasoline need more torque and in that case you will not stall but probably not go very far airboat pressing the gas pedal
Are they giving out licenses with breakfast cereal now?
You can get any car moving with just the clutch & no gas. Has nothing to do w/ hill assist.
The deep state doesn't want people who can do things. If you can drive a manual you should be careful
I’ve stalled my 17 golf… 🤷🏻♂️
But have you stalled by accident?
Yup. Generally don’t do it on purpose 😁
My 2008 shitbox has anti stall by virtue of having active idle control. It's been a thing for ages.
I'm confused as to why this is an issue? What is this system preventing you from doing? If you drive a manual well, then it's no problem because you'll never encounter it. If you don't drive a manual well, then this system will unfuck the situation for you, at least enough to get the car moving, so also no problem right? If you don't like the feeling of the car preventing you from stalling, then really the solution is to... not do things that make it have to step in to stop it stalling surely?
Easier said than done. You’re not gonna be able to figure out how to naturally ride a bike if you always have training wheels on.
Kinda? But also if you can feel that the hillstart assist is kicking in then you can tell you've done it wrong. I dunno, I've trained people to drive in modern manuals with hillstart assist/anti stall, and it hasn't been a problem in terms of learning to be good at manuals in general IMO. Though maybe Honda's assists are less aggressive than VWs?
Like people are saying: it gives you two seconds of levitating on the hill, but after two seconds are up it drops the function and turns into a regular stick. I haven’t done this yet but some people have completely dropped the clutch by the time the assist wears off so then they stall. It’s just misleading until you get used to it. So it’s really just a champagne problem. I’m over all just confused why the car was basically not working and then all of a sudden I was speed racing away. My old car would one hundred percent tapped out in that situation. And I’m just using this discussion to figure out how I got there. So it seems like a combo of the hill start assist messing me up but mostly the anti stall tech that saved me from stalling and then all of a sudden I was moving like a bay out of hell.
Why on earth would you want to REGAIN the ability to STALL?!
I had this feature on my 2021 Nissan Sentra SR as well lol. Wasn’t a fan of it but was a neat feature to have.
I can't burn myself on my new stove. "I'm such a cooking purist," I can't cut myself with my new knife. "I'm such a purist," If you wanna struggle, don't buy new things and complain. You're fortunate to even be able to buy such a car. Just enjoy it for what it is. Heck, some car manufactor just released a clutchless car. That's against my purity, which is the lack of the 3rd peddle. Buy an old car if you wanna grind gears and stall. Baka.
Look, that was a joke. it’s not like I started a gofundme. I’m not going to complain to anybody in real life because I don’t want to come off as you are perceiving this bc you’re actually right I am extremely fortunate, I posted to “r/stickshift” to learn about something and ask for advice. It’s okay to complain about a problem even if there are bigger problems in the world. Just do it to the right people, and I was hoping this would be the right group which it mostly has. I’m not saying woe is me. But you’re right I probably should have just bought another Saab to avoid this. I’m being a bit ignorant for sure
Wtf did I just read
> if you take your foot slowly off the clutch and keep your right foot not touching the gas pedal at all, the car moves forward I'm sure you've found some driver-assist tech, but the way you describe this part is... also how my 1980 Goldwing works. If you slip the clutch enough to keep the engine from stalling, but let it engage enough to start moving, you start moving without stalling. It's basically the same as any other takeoff, just slowly reducing the difference in inertia between the two sides of the clutch instead of increasing the engine side and engaging more rapidly.
VWs have the best manual transmissions. Super-smooth shifts, the clutch is neither too light nor too hard. They are so easy to drive. I'm sure you can stall it if you try but most other manuals are much easier to stall. I owned many manual cars so I had something to compare to.
Every car is different. I had a 2002 Civic Si and a 2008 Mazda 3. The Mazda was almost un-stallable. The Civic would stall extremely easy. That K20 had almost no power below 3000 RPM.
Is this your first manual?
No, but my first with any palpable helping systems.
Volkswagen especially has fine tuned their ECM control because they have used the DSG transmissions for years, they've been able to model the engine management to handle all sorts of drivers and conditions and giving the user control of the clutch doesn't affect them as much as say a gm economy car.
This is such a weird post. Creating problems where there aren't any
I completely get the objective you're after... forget about the yahoos kncoking you for a having a new vehicle with all the annoying nanny features that you don't like. I honestly understand. Shit like that in new vehicles drives me nuts just like that stupid revhang garbage. You just want to be able to drive the damn car without a ton of programming intervention. Unforntunately, probably the only way you're gonna have to disable this stuff is to get one yourself or get with someone who has an OBD11 tool and do some reprogramming on the ECU. Everyone's ranting about how all this technology crap is great and blah blah blah but it makes for one helluva annoying driving experience if you're used to driving stuff where YOU control what it does.
Alright 2 people have said *Modern manuals* but it's nothing to do with the transmission. The vehicle alters throttle to prevent stalling, whether it's due to a poor driver, a clogged air filter, a really cold start, you name it. It's a modern car thing, not a modern *manual* car thing. Computer wants idle at X rpm, it'll do it regardless of any external factors, or try to at least.
Would you agree with me that the Jetta engine's low end torque (184 lb.ft. at 1750 rpm) could be why it seems hard to stall as opposed to a deliberate feature trying to make for easy clutch operation?
Can you define "modern" for me? I've noticed that when many people say modern cars, they mean like anywhere from like 2012 to 2015 and up or so. Some people seem to mean anything newer than 2000. It throws me off, since I drive a 2002, I never know if it falls into that "modern car" category (I don't think it does, though, honestly. The gen 1 Xterras still have mechanical throttle bodies, in fact). I don't think my Xterra has any computer control over the throttle, since it's a mechanical valve, but I see people here saying their cars as old as '01 had anti-stall features like this.
Anything on the roads in my area is basically vintage and shocking to see still running if it's made before 2016 or so. Rust is real here. Modern to me is basically current gen tech though.
So is that also why automatic cars roll forward when you take the foot off the brake?
We Want To Stall ✊🏽
Finally someone based
I sincerely fail to see the issue here. I’d check Jetta specific subs about the hill assist. On my car, if you turn on sport mode, it disables hill assist. But you have to press the drive mode button every time you start the car. Throttle modulation, or whatever you want to call it, is programmed into modern cars specifically to keep the car from stalling in various situations. It’s a feature, not a bug.