Dysfunctional people are attracted to dysfunction. That's your answer.
At the same time, you may be attracted to people who are not compatible with you.
Yup, unfortunately a lot of dysfunctional traits manifest as being outgoing, confident, and spontaneous, which are attractive qualities.
That attraction doesn't always go away when you realize what those people have going on under the surface
Also because in my experience there are a far greater number of dysfunctional people than people who have truly worked through their shit and come to a healthy conclusion about life and relationships, and are confident enough to implement the healthy habits but still stopped before going fully arrogant/egotistic.
Doesn’t help that’s there’s a stigma against getting therapy or doing healthy self-work.
Most people don’t want to work on themselves and would rather drown it away with substances or being a barely socially-passable person in relationships.
Litterally had a girl break up with me because I went to a specialized PTSD therapist, she suggested. "Something something, i need a man with his shit together. Anyway im off to my therapy!"
The stigma is real and kinda worse than it used to be. Back in the day, you could absolutely expect the discrimination you'd receive for doing therapy. Now everyone is "THERAPY IS HEALTHY!," " SUPPORT MENTAL HEALTH!" and will immeadiately flip on that postion action-wise as soon as they're confronted with mental well-being... silently. Particularly against men.
Absolutely true. Men are just supposed to be emotionally centered and healthy...by magic I guess? Because God forbid you should show vulnerability by reaching out for help.
I would add to this my lightbulb moment. One day I saw this guy who just screamed I'm a douchebag, he had the fake tan, looked like he lived in a gym, wore a pile of jewelry and Ed Hardy shirts, picture your typical jersey shore douche.
And he was with this absolute knockout blonde in the tightest most revealing clothes all the right piercings and fake boobs.
I thought how does. A douche like that get a girl like that. Then I realized she was just the female version of him.
This. It's easy to recognize the douchiness without the haze of physical attraction.
So if you're only attracted to women, you'll go, "she's so beautiful and charming, what is she doing with *him*?" and every woman who doesn't like her will of course just be "jealous and judgmental". And anyone who is attracted to the douchy guy is "easily led" and "naive", because he's obviously no good.
Anyone *not* attracted to women will look at her and immediately think, "wow, she's garbage" but may think *he* is great. And of course men don't like him because of some weird, competitive bullshit.
Because a lot of guys that fit that description seem to think they can steamroll right over another guy they deem as 'inferior", and try to take his girl or embarrass him in front of his gf/wife/friends. Good news is after you get old enough guys like that just start blending with the scenery and pose no real threat. If your woman is likely to be swayed by that kind of guy, ask yourself what you're doing with her to begin with. My girlfriend is gorgeous but I am in no way threatened by other guys. Sure I have the occasional self doubt/insecurity because she's so pretty, but she's with me for a reason.
Yep you get the love that you think you deserve. A narcissist will consciously or subconsciously choose a pushover partner they can manipulate.
This was my parent’s dynamic. My mom had bipolar disorder and honestly I think she always figured she couldn’t survive without him because it was totally disabling. She couldn’t keep a job.
Married 38 years, then they divorced this year so he could move to Colombia to be with a sex worker girlfriend.
Okay wait, as someone who is in therapy because of my previous two relationships that ended up becoming extremely abusive and toxic. I was physically harmed by my first ex and mentally abused by my most recent one (but have been single for 1.5 years now). It doesn’t start that way and it isn’t that way all the time even after it begins.
My first ex physically assaulted me. We were together from when I was 16 to 19.
My second ex threatened me with violence and broke my belongings. We were together from when I was 19- 23.
BOTH of them started out extremely loving and compassionate towards me. I have been in therapy specifically for Sexual and Intimate partner violence that was suggested to me to go to by my councillor and I’ve nearly finished my treatment. My last session is next week. My therapist called this love bombing. She said, if you put a lobster in a pot of water they are fine, and as you gradually turn up the heat and boil them they don’t realise it’s happening until it’s too late because they’re getting used to the rising temperature. It’s the same.
When they would do abusive things they would make up for it. They’d buy me EXPENSIVE presents. One even bought me a £250 bonsai tree. Or bottles of champagne.
I one time asked my ex “which side of you is the real you? Because one day you’re so lovely and the next day you snap” and he said “I’m obviously the lovely version. I just lose my temper sometimes.”
I think this is what people don’t understand.
The same man who literally threw all my shit out of his house and locked me outside in -8 degrees weather with nothing on but pjs and socks. He also threatened to beat me up all because I was “talking too loud” and it annoyed him. I literally ran and hid in the trash shelters that had rats in them because I was scared I might die in the cold. We were long distance and I couldn’t drive so I had no way to get home because this happened at 1am.
He then came out and found me. He cuddled me and told me how sorry he was for overreacting. He told me he loved me. He carried me into the house after crying and tucked me into bed and literally made me feel like a princess. The next day he took me out for a fancy meal. Told me I was the most beautiful girl he’d ever met. I asked him if he was “overcompensating for what he did” and he then kicked off at me again saying “fine. I won’t call my gf pretty.” So that made me feel like it was my fault. Like I was the one in the wrong for not just accepting the compliment.
I was with him for 4 years. 4 years of these ups and downs. I don’t think anyone understands how much it fucks with your head. I cried nearly every day of that relationship but at least weekly.
He destroyed my confidence. He made me a shell of myself. He’d often say I wasn’t as pretty as him. That id be lost without him. People wouldn’t want me as much as they’d want him. Blah blah blah. And I believe it. He was ridiculously handsome, he would get hit on by other women in front of me all the time.
Maybe I am slightly dysfunctional. But I really wanted to believe he was the beautiful person I fell in love with. He was SO intelligent, SO funny, SO handsome. He was not just a random guy who beat the shit out of me (in fact for him he only threatened to he said he wished he could punch me sometimes - but the worst he’d do was shove me which would sometimes bruise me). And every time he hurt me and broke my heart he did apologise. He made me feel so much better. He was both the cause of my upset AND the solution.
We are both college educated. We both went to some of the best universities in the world and now work incredible jobs (as far as I can gather from when we last spoke). He’s not a bum ass loser.
It was like a drug. I was addicted to the way he would love me even if I hated the way he would hurt me. I was scared of him and I hated him. But I truly never have felt intensely for anyone and sometimes I worry I won’t again. Still to this day I miss him very deeply. I always worry that I was over dramatic and how he treated me wasn’t that bad. My therapist has had to teach me that this isn’t true. That what he did was illegal. If I wanted to I could take him to court (I don’t want to but I could)
It’s coming on 2 years that we’ve been broken up and I still miss him. I always wonder if my story of events isn’t how it happened. Maybe he threatened to hit me because I was acc being annoying. Maybe he bruised me because I did something terrible. Etc.
But I don’t think it’s fair to call us dysfunctional. I think part of me just wanted to believe the beautiful side of him. My friends loved him. My family loved him. He wasn’t just some random asshole. He hid it very well.
When it got really bad towards the end I used to say to my friends “he’s my perfect man, except the way he treats me SOMETIMES” (because it wasn’t all the times) and they literally would cry to me about how worried they were. But when you’re in it you don’t see it.
I always just wanted it to go back to the beginning. Where he treated me like a princess. But he’d only do that when he scared me, nearly to a point of breaking up with him.
Thank you! Not something I’m necessarily needing right now but hopefully I will in the future! And thank you for responding sorry was such a long read, just had a lot of thoughts! 😭
I feel like incel-adjacent guys look at relationships between emotionally damaged women and abusive men and are like “Oh wow, how can I get me some of that?!”
And then because of course they think any one woman represents all women, they ask “why do women™️ like abusive men?”
This is like seeing some strung out woman and asking “why do women™️ have drug addictions? That woman would rather *pass out on the street* than date me???”
I agree with that, but I also think these men look for good dysfunctional people to basically suck out all their energy.. They have so many skills that should be considered entrapment. They know what to do and say.. then you're married, and they can remove the mask.
Believe it or not, I don't think it's intentional most of the time. Most people try to be the person that they think they are. Eventually, they show you who they really are and aren't even aware of their own issues.
The amount of self-awareness that most people have is close to zero.
I agree with this but I would also add that, people who find it easier to find connections of all kinds don't over think these situations.
Once you are in your element and confident in yourself whether it's justified or not you just become more attractive.
I think in some cases they’re just assertive and make it obviously known that they’re attracted to women, and that goes a lot farther than a guy who is sweet to women but too shy to make their intentions obvious
Absolutely and that goes both ways. A woman has a much better shot of getting my attention romantically if she is assertive rather than just cautious, polite and considerate.
100% as a straight woman, this is totally true to my experience. I often hear the same sentiment from my female friends and coworkers…why do all men want “bitches?” why do “mean girls” always get the guy? it’s bc “mean girls” ask for what they want (not bc they are actually mean).
I definitely think the dating pool is over represented by losers of both genders! For every guy or girl out there playing games and leaving a trail of angry people in their wake, there are five guys watching sports with their friends, and five girls baking cookies and watching chick flicks together. That’s one of the reasons it’s hard to find someone genuine!
This is absolutely true. I just posted about this. The “good” ones aren’t out looking or on dating apps. Just living their lives, going to the store, hitting the gym, or in your case…baking cookies. 😉
I’d say this would apply to me in a way, think of the stereotypical wife beater wearing douche, they’re usually all over other women hitting on everyone and all about the physical that’s why they get with a decent number of women who want some physical too, other side to this is they’re probably both miserable and aren’t really that interested in eachother so if you’re loooking for long term I wouldn’t really pay much mind to these guys but you still do have to get the woman interested in you somehow to start it off
So for quick relationships it kinda does work but probably not so much for long term healthy relationships
I think the answer is simply confidence. I would have wrote what you wrote to the letter 15-20 years ago. To the letter.
I am better looking than I thought I was, as it turns out. Not a brag as much as a nod to face/body dysmorphia. That shit is real.
But at 28 after a nervous breakdown and some
Therapy I figured out that I could be confident about having no confidence (imagine confidently saying to your date “I have no clue at all how to successfully date women but I’m willing to learn”) —I did better with that shit than I did at any time before it. Because I had the confidence to try and fail as myself. And I could learn it from there.
My girlfriend tells me this all the time!
Im pretty confident, and that confidence always comes out in the ability to say “I have no idea what im doing”
Why do women care so damn much about confidence??
I hate to sound like a “nice guy”but there are plenty of great, honest hardworking men out there who would make great boyfriends but simply don’t have confidence or rizz so they’re invisible to women
As a formally shy woman, (I grew out of it), shyness is not cute and endearing. Stammering over your words and feeling yourself go red while your friends chat effortlessly to boys does not get the boys chasing you!
I’ve had many girlfriends say they found me being nervous on a first date charming.
It can be disarming and a good green light for a woman to know that a guy who is usually well composed can get shy/coy/awkward when it’s just them together because the man is nervous.
Huh?
It’s entirely possible to be confident and introverted. They have nothing to do with one another.
One is comfort with oneself, the other is a measure of social capacity,
Introversion was not what the previous comment spoke about. They spoke about shyness, which is basically the opposite of confidence. Someone who is shy would likely also be described as being timid, or at least appearing to be so. Timid is an antonym of confident.
Confidence isn’t something most people have, especially at younger ages. We’ve all got insecurities.
Confidence comes in owning who you are. You can’t be someone else. You’re you. You just have to own it.
And learn as you go. “I’m confident I’ve got no confidence with girls” plays better than “I have no confidence with girls”
“Dating? Seriously I have no clue how to date? But I can have a conversation and I can order food. So it’s a start. Well, and shit, I’m here. It’s a start. I’m confident I’m talking nervously right now.”
Why do they want it—varies a
little from woman to woman. I think we all look for confidence somewhere? Like, confidence looks like a lot of different things. There are women that like quiet guys too. But they’d need to be the kind of women comfortable in making the first move or you’ll never meet. You want to learn how to indicate that you like a woman.
That’s what I always got wrong as a younger guy. We’re the sex that initiates things, historically.
I hope that makes some kind of sense.
> Confidence isn’t something most people have, especially at younger ages
Its got nothing to do with age tbh! Plenty of older people are not confident too.
Confidence comes with experience as well and a 20 year old could have more experiences dating and be more confident than a 30 year old virgin who's never dated.
It only gets better from practice! Best thing that happened to me after divorce was FINALLY learning how to properly "date". Sure it started out stressful but wound up being an absolute blast. Going from codependency to just being able to be myself and have fun was a life changing experience.
....because you have to put yourself out there if anyone is going to notice you. No one is going to look at average ol' you, silently gliding through life, and think 'I'm gonna go out of my way to get with this person'.
*Humans* care so much about confidence. It’ll get you elected president, make you team leader, earn you promotions, make you a wealthy influencer, help you run scams and start cults… we’re wired to follow the guy (usually guy) who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about, even if he’s talking out of his ass. Sex appeal is an almost accidental side effect. (You even hear straight guys half-joking about finding confident guys hot.)
Hell, it even works on bears. If you as a human stand tall and confidently put your arms in the air, it’ll start to second guess itself. If you panic and run, you can watch it instantly get its mojo back. (I don’t think bears also find confident humans sexy though, so keep your expectations reasonable.)
It's less that women specifically want a guy with an arbitrary amount of confidence and more of the fact that guys with low confidence don't approach women and they tend to have less social hobbies. This means that they'll be very unlikely to get a girlfriend because they simply don't interact with women enough.
But also, human psychology just assumes that if someone is unhappy with themselves, there probably really is something wrong with them, but if they’re happy, they’re probably doing something right. It’s why influencers curating their lives on Instagram can be so effective at convincing people to take their advice on things.
Confidence IS important. Someone with no confidence who is always doubting themselves are inevitably going to fall into toxic co dependency. You can't make a great partner if you can't hold up your own life. The problem is that people tend to confuse confidence and arrogance. Confidence doesn't mean you don't question yourself and believe you can do no wrong.
Cuz I’m confident and I wanna be partners with someone who also has their shit together lol. My partner is actually extremely introverted. His job in radiology has him literally talking to no one most of the day and he’s very content with that. But he’s confident about his passions even though they may not be traditionally “manly” (anime, manga, League of legends) so much so that when he was talking about them his passion/ confidence in knowing these things really won me over. Even though I had no idea wtf he was talking about half the time 😅
They may not consciously care about it, but a confident person is easier to notice and more likely to approach a girl he likes. You can be the greatest, coolest person in the world but if you never talk to her she’ll never know (or might even assume that you think you’re better than everyone else if they look at you as a cool attractive person who never speaks with or interacts with others).
Also, many shy people are little socially awkward, which few people are attracted to, even platonically. Popular people tend to be confident and at least a little charming.
Because it’s less likely that he will then try to exert some sort of pressure on you in an effort to either: latch on to your confidence and undermine it, get jealous and angry if you even speak to another man, become controlling due to lack of confidence, become suspicious, become clingy because he doesn’t want you out of his sight
, treat you overly aloof in fear that you will leave him, etc.
Lack of confidence in one’s own person really ends up leading to a whole host of undesirable behaviours.
If you’re confident you know what you have to offer, you aren’t jealous, suspiscious, and or potentially violent. If the girl isn’t interested she isn’t scared to say “I think we aren’t clicking”. She knows that even if you don’t click you will both walk away having maybe enjoyed a platonic evening. Maybe you can be friends and she might introduce you to other friends of hers.
Confidence isn’t braggadocio type behaviour. Much of that “macho” over the top stuff is because of a lack of confidence. Shyness isn’t necessarily lack of confidence. Saying “I know I’m a bit quiet and slower to warm up, but I’m very willing to give this a go” is okay. If she’s not into it, that’s just a normal incompatibility. Same with if a guy doesn’t want to be with a quiet reserved girl. Nothing wrong with either, just isn’t compatible with their wants.
Honestly, self-deprecating humour, like confidently pointing out our flaws, even sometimes exaggerating it, is the best kind of humour! 🤣
And yes, deep down it's a mark of confidence. Insecure people might be less prompted to joke about themselves.
Bro, I been telling girls I'm not good at having game, as game since 1997.
This shit works because it is like a subversion of expectations. They expect you to say some smooth shit, or attemp to. They're ready for that. When you sound kinda nervous and tell them your not good at this, it seems very genuine (for the most part, it is). That resonates with them.
This explains why I'm single. It really does. All my friends and their wives ask why I'm single and the truth is I just don't feel that "love" for myself. And you can't find love if you don't love yourself first and foremost. It's also why I think there are so many people in unsuccessful relationships, some people don't love themselves and are desperate to accept anything and anyone.
Even older is the myth of the " love of a good woman" and if her love doesn't fix him, it's her fault. She didn't love him enough or she just wasn't good enough.
Fuck. I have to delete mine.
Why isn't this higher? Motherfucker you know this is the answer. It can be FUN, like an old wooden rollercoaster with bolts flying everywhere as you ride it.
They do, but you'll find a more common combination is an abuser and previously abused in relationships. Abusers don't like having to confront someone who stands up for themselves.
I've seen it cut both ways. Dudes basically owned by their miserable wife and left a shell of who they are and women clearly with abuse in their past being suckered into relationships with the guys who would years later do time for beating the shit out of them.
The worst part is the kids they have struggle to not repeat the mistakes of their parents and keep that awful cycle going.
Some of the women do not value themselves.
Some of the women believe they can “change” these men or the men will become better once they are with them.
Some of the women lack moral compasses.
Some of the women are victims of life and are damaged and cannot see these men are not good for them.
Some of these women do not care.
Some of these women like men like this.
Maybe we should stop and wonder why the op is so upset and why he thinks these guys are losers with nothing to offer before we immediately assume that they're actually losers with nothing to offer and that any woman who's attracted to them is an idiot.
Obviously there are a lot of women out there - just like there are a lot of men out there - who make terrible choices in relationships, don't have any kind of moral compass, don't care, or are attracted to shitty people. Some people suck.
But 99% of the time when a guy is complaining on the internet that women all like losers... They're not losers.
They may be really physically attractive, but the ones with those type of men are not usually mentally attractive.
You’re not doing anything wrong if you are taking care of yourself and constantly improving and creating healthy habits. Anything else will follow.
But let's also be real, bring attractive is usually the key factor. A lot of jerk/scumbags can get gfs due to being attractive just like many women who are horrible can get bfs due to being attractive.
It's so true lol. That's why I always laugh when redditors act like looks for guys aren't super relevant. They are, and its fine. It's just the way it is.
The little gargoyle guys encourage him too. They tell him to be confident, and that he's not too ugly, and that the girl will fall him in love with him. So brutal. Goes against all the typical Disney rules
I'd say charisma trumps all, because attractive people can still be boring. Hot people who are duds when it comes to personality have no problem finding dates. Keeping them is harder.
Charisma is probably at the root of why a lot of people are who are terrible still date often. They're good at selling themselves.
But looks definitely matter more than a lot of traits people like to pretend are more important, so as not to sound shallow.
Hot + emotionally inept is a hell of a drug.
People love trying to validate themselves by thinking "if I only I get could this distant, neglectful man/woman to fully accept and want me, then, *I might* *finally be enough*."
The funny thing is that, more often than not, that same person would probably get bored with the relationship if they ever got their wish. What keeps them around is the promise of \*one day\* filling that void within themselves, which, ironically, could never possibly be filled by another person. Only you can heal yourself.
Because they don't try that hard. They like themselves so just assume that others will too.
I know a meth head with only a couple of teeth who still manages to have sex with someone. It'd be a big nope from me but I don't do meth.
I'm guessing you are trying to punch above your level and its not working. Your expectations are maybe too high for what you put across. I'm not saying you don't deserve a 10 - you just aren't putting out "10" vibes. You need confidence to pull that off.
A guy could be ugly, but really funny or smart - and get the girls who like funny or smart.
A guy can be rich and good looking but a slimeball, but get the girls who just want rich and good looking.
A guy can be a toad and a slimeball and penniless but still get a girl because HE thinks he's something and she believes it until she figures it out.
Honestly, clean yourself up and just start talking to women. Don't ask them out. Talk to them like they are a guy you don't know well yet. Feel them out. When you are practiced, you will also be more relaxed and confident. And you might know them well enough by then to know that you have some things in common. And make that commonality the basis to ask them out. If they don't get the sense you are just a predator - that you are looking for a person to spend time with and not a sex doll to fuck, you will have better luck. Although, there may be someone who is just down for a fuck. Be prepared.
Because women are attracted to men who treat them horribly and cheat on them. They are attracted to the social aspects of being the victim, being sad, crying to friends, then being happy, and reporting back to friends how they ultimately won. If you are a nice guy not looking to screw around or create drama, then they will become bored with you and see you as weak with no options, so there is no sport in being with you. " only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally, men are only loved as long as they are providing something" chris rock.
There is no shortage of women who walk blind into bad situations for probably countless reasons. Examples that come to mind: low self esteem, grew up in dysfunction, “I can fix him”… the list goes on.
Also no lack of men willing to prey on them. People are people 🤷♂️
iirc a study asked people (in general) in traits they like/dislike in a relationship. Excluding the safe answers, there were a notable overlap between what people found attractive and what people in abusive or disfunctional relationships have.
The study is less about blaming a particular gender, but pretty much that we as a species are pretty shit at judging character.
Exactly.. it took me a long time to leave my abusive relationship because he claimed he was trying to “heal” or was “struggling with something” so I focused on showing him “grace” and “patience” until I realized that this was a pattern that would never change or stop.
It just got worse and worse over time, to the point I could accurately predict his next move every single time (because it always has this component of showing love, criticizing or bringing you down so you feel insecure or afraid, then pulling you back in - and this repeats OVER AND OVER AND OVER).
Now I’m able to easily spot an abuser, even just on the first meeting. But it took numerous years of abuse from different partners to get adapt at spotting this.
Because women are socialized to tolerate abuse, and men are socially rewarded for abusive behaviour. Scratch any abusive relationship and you’re going to find a pattern that starts from childhood. If it just seems normal to you you’re going to compromise/rationalize in ways that seem really self sabotaging to others.
The awful depressingly cliche truth is that we spend a lot of our adult lives repeating patterns we inherited or were subjected to by our parents. Becoming your own self-actualized person is a constant struggle to unlearn those behaviours.
And it really is. I am constantly rerouting myself mentally. It is an arduous journey, but I'm proud to say I'm taking it because the world needs more people to do it.
some guys are good at faking it until the woman is locked in. then women tend to be distrustful of actual good men. source: i am a woman who has experienced both
Some women have low self esteem, less resources, and not enough support around them to help them out of poor situations. Some men as well as some women too are master manipulators. We accept the relationships we think we deserve.
Trust me neither of those people are happy
If you're a bloke and you're horrible then nobody likes you. If you're a girl who can't see blatant red flags then it's often because they've been normalised and they can't pick up on them.
For example if their father was a cunt, or an ex, or a brother or anyone so when men treat them like cunts it seems normal and the alarms that would be blaring in others don't get triggered.
They aren't relationships you wanna be jealous of, it's trauma replaying over and over a lot of the time
for me it was all about being jacked and great in bed. women i slept with would overlook pretty much everything else. like they rather fuck a hot guy in the back of a civic than a good normal guy after a nice date in his condo or whatever. it’s weird but best to not complain and just adapt / take advantage of it.
Because women don't want nice guys. Also depends what you think is horrible. A guy that doesn't worship the ground they walk on and doesn't let women walk all over them is not a horrible guy. Women don't like weak men, they want someone who can make a decision and that value themselves.
Now if you're talking truly horrible guys, guys that are abusive or cheat. That is usually because the women that like these types are also all messed up.
I'll tell you from the victims perspective. I was 21. I had basically no one else, I was struggling to get grounded on my feet and my dysfunctionalnmentall I'll parents weren't overly helpful. He could call for his own doctors appointment. He used food banks when he was low on money. He liked me. Wow. And he had his license!! I love love and I want to be in love like those movies; so he mirrored me. He was validating and agreeable, romantic and swept me up quickly and while I resisted alot I went along with it because I had nothing else healthy to go upon and no one to discuss things with, and besides, I'm probably just a little insecure, right???
WRONG.
This person has absolutely desecrated my life for 12 years and because I was stupid to also become the mother of his child I can't leave. They do it as a coping mechanism. He needs to meet his needs. He covertly exploits and uses people under the guise of being friendly but being as close to him as I am I see through the bs. He has shallow friendships with these people and doesn't engage unless it can benefit him in some way. AMA if you'd like.
You're thinking about it too much. This post is proof. Some guys can talk to 20 women in one night and if one takes the bait that's all they care about. Other guys get rejected once and never try again. Just by pure numbers some of these guys will be losers
>also, if this is the case, then why should I even improve myself?
Do you really want the same kind of women who date the shitty guys? If you find that reasonably sane and attractive women with good characters are dating shitty guys then you don't have to improve, it's just luck and "first one to get there" or right time. If you find that the girls who are dating shitty guys are shitty then you usually try to improve so that you can get the type of girl you want.
When I dated the first guy I dated it could have been literally anyone. I would have never rejected anyone for having flaws, he was just the first one to take an interest in me, and maybe he had a ton of flaws, but nothing could ever beat the fact that he's the one who paid attention to me. You have to like people if you want them to like you back. I feel like a lot of these incels who can't get a girlfriend just don't like anyone and then wonder why no one likes them.
You posted a thread 20 times saying you have no job, no friends, no social skills, and no interests outside of playing video games all day and you complain in 20 other threads about "horrible men" getting girlfriends instead of you.
If you actually had a gf do you know what she would post? She'd be saying why am I with a guy with no job, no friends, no social skills and no interests outside of playing video games all day. He's a horrible man. He's boring, entitled, and doesn't think for one second about anyone other than himself, much less my needs.
You're 21. If you simply went out and had an interest in anything you could probably get a gf. Stop whining about other people and do something. Get a hobby. Get outside or go to the gym. Get an education. Stop wasting your life and stop boring people with your negativity.
First of all, because of all of the things other people said here: attractiveness and confidence on behalf of the guy, low self esteem on behalf of the girl, and the "I can fix him" factor.
But I'll give you a more "incel-like", but technical and maybe useful for you, response, using YouTuber HoeMath's explanation and "zones" model.
Note that this only applies to the average western cis relationship and is not the most scientific thing ever, but still, it might help you.
We guys usually have a single scale on which we value women. It can have multiple factors like personality, physical traits, attitudes, but at the end of the day we just add all of that up on a single number from 0 to 100, and if the girl is above, let's say, 70, we like her.
Women have 2 scales
There's the good guy scale, which is the one society tells you about: be nice to her, show her you care, give her stuff, etc. It can be summarized as "investment". These are traits of a good person, but honestly, anyone can give these things to her, and pretty girls pretty much expect them as the bare minimum by default.
And then there's the bad boy scale: how attractive you are, how much money you make, how strong are you. Essentially, it measures how masculine and powerful you are. Most of us kinda notice in some way that the bad boy scale exists, but can't quite put a finger on what it is, and society usually doesn't tell you about it cuz it sounds a bit harsh to say that this is what women want because in an ideal world this stuff doesn't matter and you should only have good guy traits, but this isn't an ideal world.
In an ideal relationship, you pull her in with the bad boy stuff and she stays cuz you're a good guy at heart. This is what HM calls the "prince charming" zone.
If you are neither a good guy nor a bad boy, you don't exist to women. This is the "ghost/not people" zone.
If you are a good guy, but not a bad boy, you enter the friendzone. This is where guys usually fail and they think "I did everything right, why doesn't she like me?", with the answer being that they weren't bad boy enough. You invested enough to be her friend, but she had no reason to be attracted to you.
And finally, there's the bad boy zone if you are a bad boy but don't give her any good guy investment. The interesting thing here is that for some reason, a bad boy is more fun than a prince charming, at least for a little while. This is who the women you mention that ended up with bad men ended up with. They fell for the bad boy and for some reason or another didn't get out, probably expecting him to change. Not all of them stay, but, still, it's almost always the case that bad boys are better at getting girls than good guys.
So the way to get the girl that wants a bad boy, which is the average girl even if she doesn't realize it, is not by being even nicer trying to convince her to want a good guy; but rather by getting bad boy traits so she's attracted to you, but treat her nicely.
Yeah manipulation to get someone to like you is a skill that many learn, it’s good for people to be a little wary if things are going *too* perfectly for that reason
Exactly, and I wish I had known this a few years ago! I got married to someone after just 6 months of knowing them because everything was so perfect and I was sure I had found "the one". Turns out I was very wrong, and I'm currently working on getting divorced.
I’m sorry about that but hope for the best! I can’t say I know how to properly screen for that kind of manipulative behavior because someone really good at manipulation will be able to pass any “test” you throw at them.
Sometimes they can tell on themselves, but often they are extremely careful with what words they say so that isn’t a great method either.
Girl I work with... we've been pretty good friends for like 20 years (we will talk and hang out for a few months, then disappear for 6 months lol)... recently got divorced, and a few months after she was asking for the number of one of my work friends... also pretty good friend, we go to the bar from time to time after work... I had to be the asshole like "girl, normally I'd never shut a dude down like this, but anyone but him, I'm fairly certain he has 3 active girlfriends like... right now"
I don't think it's possible to ever be completely immune from the BS the other sex throws at you... if you met the dude he seems like a nice guy, real down to earth, but damn I couldn't let her fall prey to that
I was thinking something similar. I'm not sure these guys exist in huge numbers (at least not as many as the internet seems to think), but to the extent that they do exist: if you're comfortable being a piece of shit, you can lie and manipulate yourself into relationships a lot easier than people who treat others as human beings with feelings worthy of respect.
This is so true. My brother's marriage recently ended. She cheated on him, stole money, did a bunch of other weird shit. Then her family was like "oh yeah... Crazy ol' Jessica" and we found out from them that her behavior at the end of the relationship was how she had behaved generally for YEARS before my brother met her. Then she "got better." Her family thought he was a really good stable influence on her. But it seems she just had some kind of double life going on where she successfully hid the crazy from us for 8 years and then mask started slipping...
Women are often attracted to these types of men because they exhibit very masculine behavior. They are generally assertive and take action when they want to, and don't care what others think. This comes across as confidence, which most people find attractive. They also have the typical bad boy vibe which initially draws women in. All these behaviors turn out to be toxic/negative later on, but by then the men are ready to move on anyway because they don't want healthy, long term relationships.
Being attractive to women is totally different from being a good person or a good citizen. They are completely orthogonal/ independent sets of traits / skills.
Many guys are told: “just be a good person, and women will be attracted to you.” That’s just not true at all. A lot of scumbags are totally irresistible to women. And a lot of great guys struggle.
Sometimes people don't start to suck until you've been with them awhile. That's when sunk cost fallacy kicks in. Hardly anybody is that terrible when you first meet them.
Women love drama and those types of men provide an endless feast for them. The guys who are nice usually get dumped / divorced for being too boring and not making her tinkle.
Consider bad men equal to drugs, alcohol, and gambling.
Same with bad women.
They will use you and abuse you and leave you feeling empty and with nothing to show but scars.
Sounds horrible but why would ANYONE do that?
Because even beautiful people or average looking people want to feel loved and valued even at the expense of going down hill, even for a little while.
It can be fun but damaging. Thrilling and intoxicating but you feel guilty afterwards.
Sometimes it's the only high you think you can get. Without healthier alternatives people indulge bad behavior if their self esteem is low.
Same reason how horrible women are able to get men.
People lower the creepy bar to attractive people. Both men and women do this.
Alot of people are willing to date someone with red flags if they are attractive
People subconsciously seek out partners with whom their relationship will mirror the dynamics of their caregivers. Women with abusive father frequently end up with abusive men.
Here’s the thing. The caregiver does NOT have to be the opposite sex in order for your relationship to mirror is. Too many people apply “daddy issues” where “mommy issues” would fit significantly better. ESPECIALLY when you take into account that a LOT of women’s first bullies are their mother, not their father. Their father may have been absent, but the shit their mothers put them through molds they way they show up in relationships AND what they look for in a partner.
A study showed that women are more attracted to and want to reproduce with men who have dark triad personality traits. In other words, they like the silver toothed psychopaths/sociopaths. I guess it’s more exciting to be treated like less than shit? Then when they get older and less desirable they catch the last branch with a decent income and live happily ever after before they’re shit out of luck. It’s just human nature. The prevalence of dead beat father figures in modern times also plays a role. not speaking for all ladies ofc
Which one are you pursuing? A future wife, a casual dating scenario, or casual sex? Align your interests with your partners. Being on the same page is key.
Because they don't have low self-esteem. They don't see themselves the way you described them, so they are able to project confidence, however unearned, which is what a lot of women first notice about a guy. It's hard to compete against blind confidence in social situations a lot of the time, people will tend to be drawn in more by emotion than logic or reason.
You're cooking something and it requires apples. You don't have any so you go to the store. Allllllll the damn apples are bruised up *but you still need apples*. So you set your bar for acceptability lower and choose from the shit pile of bad apples.
That's what's happening only with picking men instead of apples.
They don’t act obnoxious at first. At first they are nice and sweet and caring. Then they show their true selves when the woman is hooked or trapped in the relationship.
im sure my friends think i am a looser in some fashion, but i always am the one pushing the women away and my friends are always chasing down the women and getting rejected.
you cant nice your way into a womans heart or pants.
women perceive and are attracted to social status, and this doesnt necessarily mean money or power
you need to be more selfish to get a womans attention/respect, you cant view women as some sort of mysterious sacred entity that deserves nothing but worship from you.
i view women as humans who are more crazy than guys and that they want something from me that requires work i dont want to put in, but i still find some of them sexy, so things sometimes get out of control.
plus woman are always pulling crap. girl im talking to now is trying to tell me how to organize my freezer. the way i dont organize my freezer is driving her insane and she wont stop talking about it, i told her many times its fine and i want it left alone. i think most "nice" guys would jump at the opportunity to "please" a women, not realizing these little moments are tests to see if you are a push over. if you are a push over then its over.
i hate knowing this stuff as if makes me seem like a player or that i am a manipulator, but in my mind i am pretty nice but in a leave me alone sort of way
I remember reading an article on a study that found that women who participated were far less likely to notice sociopathic and narcissistic character traits in men than other men were able to identify.
Also these traits are in a lot of ways beneficial in our hyper capitalist society.
Because "horrible" is quite subjective, and people only complain about the bad moments. You can see a relationship, and you only hear about the one or few bad things they've done, and not all the other great qualities they have to get them that relationship in the first place. So people think "why can they get boyfriends/girlfriends and i cant!? this is unfair!"
I’ve noticed this too. I think it’s mostly this: confidence and or masculinity. A guy who clearly has no business being THAT confident.. but IS that confident, can get girls. Women like confident men. A guy who is a jerk or a loser or only cares about himself often has masculine traits (that the nice guy does not have) that a woman is naturally attracted to. Women like masculine men
Horrible people are often charismatic and manipulative out of necessity. They put a lot of effort in to pretending to be good people and they slowly groom their partners into accepting their crap behaviors.
A lot of “losers” have the time and energy to a) stay horny and b) pay attention/be present.
As a person who decided to take life more seriously later in life, I’ve seen both ends of the pendulum.
Do what you’ve been doing and understand the above, and you’ll be fine.
The fact that you are confused by this likely stems from the same reason you "can't find someone."
You don't interact with enough women on a normal human to human basis. It seems like you aren't viewing them as people, but as potential mates.
Get out there and make friends. Don't chase women. Don't seek to date. Just interact with people like a normal person.
It's mostly what KWH said.
These people are seeking to fill a void and that void is usually filled with trouble.
If you're not trouble then you won't attract those people.
I used to think that I was the odd one out too and we kinda are but the odd one out in a good way.
You don't want to get involved with all the things those people have to offer. These things you're worried about are worries of the flesh. They are not of God.
Just keep bettering yourself and the right person will come along.
Well, your mindset has a lot to do with it. Don’t try to force things. They’ll happen when they’re supposed to. Don’t look down on others. You don’t know what they’re offering or what goes on behind closed doors.
You have a self-esteem problem. "I just dont get what im doing wrong." This quote means (a) that you somehow know you are doing something wrong; (b) you're not sure what it is; but (c) you're sure that it is something.
You are also proving to be incredibly judgmental and emotional by your third paragraph.
Rather than looking outward and thinking about what others bring to the table, I'd recommend figuring out how to have the self-awareness to put your best self forward. Because this ain't it.
Sometimes people don't start to suck until you've been with them awhile. That's when sunk cost fallacy kicks in. Hardly anybody is that terrible when you first meet them.
The undesireables make women excited because they're edgy, unpredictable & mysterious.
Women tend to marry the safe man because he's stable, provides for her well being & is attentive.
Women who chase the rebel may marry the safe man but secretly they will still always desire the wild one's.
Any women who goes with wild boys tend to always want that.
Any women who goes with safe men tend to always want that.
Have you ever looked at their wives and girlfriends? They’re always fat trashy hoes. You’ll never see some loser dude with an actual catch. It’s always some Cretan you would never even touch.
1. They are better looking that you.
2. They are more shameless than you (confident?)
3. You are actually worse than them, but don’t realize it.
Take your pick.
Whether they admit it or not women have a deep seated tendency to be attracted to the appearance of power. It’s not their faults it’s a primordial instinct. “Bad Boys” are dangerous and often aggressive. Thousands even just hundreds (hell … There are places still like) of years ago these traits were deadly for other people and women. However if a woman was on his good side, she would survive maybe even thrive.
It doesn’t quite work like that anymore in civilized places, but the instincts have been honed for 100s of thousands of years.
I have a friend who is a brilliant engineer. He is an actual rocket scientist. He struggle with finding women that might like him like you do. He actually trained himself through study to speak differently and be louder and more confident. He actually practiced. Then the women started to come and he ended up marrying a stunning woman with a great character.
Some people don’t like the uncomfortable realities of biology, psychology, and our past. The truth is the evolution of our species does leave some uncomfortable truths that are difficult to accept in a modern social context.
Dysfunctional people are attracted to dysfunction. That's your answer. At the same time, you may be attracted to people who are not compatible with you.
Because they put the FUN in dysfunctional, at first.
Yup, unfortunately a lot of dysfunctional traits manifest as being outgoing, confident, and spontaneous, which are attractive qualities. That attraction doesn't always go away when you realize what those people have going on under the surface
Or it does, but that takes a while
Also because in my experience there are a far greater number of dysfunctional people than people who have truly worked through their shit and come to a healthy conclusion about life and relationships, and are confident enough to implement the healthy habits but still stopped before going fully arrogant/egotistic.
Doesn’t help that’s there’s a stigma against getting therapy or doing healthy self-work. Most people don’t want to work on themselves and would rather drown it away with substances or being a barely socially-passable person in relationships.
Litterally had a girl break up with me because I went to a specialized PTSD therapist, she suggested. "Something something, i need a man with his shit together. Anyway im off to my therapy!" The stigma is real and kinda worse than it used to be. Back in the day, you could absolutely expect the discrimination you'd receive for doing therapy. Now everyone is "THERAPY IS HEALTHY!," " SUPPORT MENTAL HEALTH!" and will immeadiately flip on that postion action-wise as soon as they're confronted with mental well-being... silently. Particularly against men.
You dodged a bullet when she left.
Absolutely true. Men are just supposed to be emotionally centered and healthy...by magic I guess? Because God forbid you should show vulnerability by reaching out for help.
Can confirm. Am sitting at bar drinking alcoholic substances right now.
Lol. I'm not the only one who says that
Oh, definitely. I'm speaking from experience lol
This
Also, lying. People who are aokay with lying to potential partners can find “compatibility” much more easily!
I would add to this my lightbulb moment. One day I saw this guy who just screamed I'm a douchebag, he had the fake tan, looked like he lived in a gym, wore a pile of jewelry and Ed Hardy shirts, picture your typical jersey shore douche. And he was with this absolute knockout blonde in the tightest most revealing clothes all the right piercings and fake boobs. I thought how does. A douche like that get a girl like that. Then I realized she was just the female version of him.
This. It's easy to recognize the douchiness without the haze of physical attraction. So if you're only attracted to women, you'll go, "she's so beautiful and charming, what is she doing with *him*?" and every woman who doesn't like her will of course just be "jealous and judgmental". And anyone who is attracted to the douchy guy is "easily led" and "naive", because he's obviously no good. Anyone *not* attracted to women will look at her and immediately think, "wow, she's garbage" but may think *he* is great. And of course men don't like him because of some weird, competitive bullshit.
This is spot-on.
Because a lot of guys that fit that description seem to think they can steamroll right over another guy they deem as 'inferior", and try to take his girl or embarrass him in front of his gf/wife/friends. Good news is after you get old enough guys like that just start blending with the scenery and pose no real threat. If your woman is likely to be swayed by that kind of guy, ask yourself what you're doing with her to begin with. My girlfriend is gorgeous but I am in no way threatened by other guys. Sure I have the occasional self doubt/insecurity because she's so pretty, but she's with me for a reason.
Yep you get the love that you think you deserve. A narcissist will consciously or subconsciously choose a pushover partner they can manipulate. This was my parent’s dynamic. My mom had bipolar disorder and honestly I think she always figured she couldn’t survive without him because it was totally disabling. She couldn’t keep a job. Married 38 years, then they divorced this year so he could move to Colombia to be with a sex worker girlfriend.
Okay wait, as someone who is in therapy because of my previous two relationships that ended up becoming extremely abusive and toxic. I was physically harmed by my first ex and mentally abused by my most recent one (but have been single for 1.5 years now). It doesn’t start that way and it isn’t that way all the time even after it begins. My first ex physically assaulted me. We were together from when I was 16 to 19. My second ex threatened me with violence and broke my belongings. We were together from when I was 19- 23. BOTH of them started out extremely loving and compassionate towards me. I have been in therapy specifically for Sexual and Intimate partner violence that was suggested to me to go to by my councillor and I’ve nearly finished my treatment. My last session is next week. My therapist called this love bombing. She said, if you put a lobster in a pot of water they are fine, and as you gradually turn up the heat and boil them they don’t realise it’s happening until it’s too late because they’re getting used to the rising temperature. It’s the same. When they would do abusive things they would make up for it. They’d buy me EXPENSIVE presents. One even bought me a £250 bonsai tree. Or bottles of champagne. I one time asked my ex “which side of you is the real you? Because one day you’re so lovely and the next day you snap” and he said “I’m obviously the lovely version. I just lose my temper sometimes.” I think this is what people don’t understand. The same man who literally threw all my shit out of his house and locked me outside in -8 degrees weather with nothing on but pjs and socks. He also threatened to beat me up all because I was “talking too loud” and it annoyed him. I literally ran and hid in the trash shelters that had rats in them because I was scared I might die in the cold. We were long distance and I couldn’t drive so I had no way to get home because this happened at 1am. He then came out and found me. He cuddled me and told me how sorry he was for overreacting. He told me he loved me. He carried me into the house after crying and tucked me into bed and literally made me feel like a princess. The next day he took me out for a fancy meal. Told me I was the most beautiful girl he’d ever met. I asked him if he was “overcompensating for what he did” and he then kicked off at me again saying “fine. I won’t call my gf pretty.” So that made me feel like it was my fault. Like I was the one in the wrong for not just accepting the compliment. I was with him for 4 years. 4 years of these ups and downs. I don’t think anyone understands how much it fucks with your head. I cried nearly every day of that relationship but at least weekly. He destroyed my confidence. He made me a shell of myself. He’d often say I wasn’t as pretty as him. That id be lost without him. People wouldn’t want me as much as they’d want him. Blah blah blah. And I believe it. He was ridiculously handsome, he would get hit on by other women in front of me all the time. Maybe I am slightly dysfunctional. But I really wanted to believe he was the beautiful person I fell in love with. He was SO intelligent, SO funny, SO handsome. He was not just a random guy who beat the shit out of me (in fact for him he only threatened to he said he wished he could punch me sometimes - but the worst he’d do was shove me which would sometimes bruise me). And every time he hurt me and broke my heart he did apologise. He made me feel so much better. He was both the cause of my upset AND the solution. We are both college educated. We both went to some of the best universities in the world and now work incredible jobs (as far as I can gather from when we last spoke). He’s not a bum ass loser. It was like a drug. I was addicted to the way he would love me even if I hated the way he would hurt me. I was scared of him and I hated him. But I truly never have felt intensely for anyone and sometimes I worry I won’t again. Still to this day I miss him very deeply. I always worry that I was over dramatic and how he treated me wasn’t that bad. My therapist has had to teach me that this isn’t true. That what he did was illegal. If I wanted to I could take him to court (I don’t want to but I could) It’s coming on 2 years that we’ve been broken up and I still miss him. I always wonder if my story of events isn’t how it happened. Maybe he threatened to hit me because I was acc being annoying. Maybe he bruised me because I did something terrible. Etc. But I don’t think it’s fair to call us dysfunctional. I think part of me just wanted to believe the beautiful side of him. My friends loved him. My family loved him. He wasn’t just some random asshole. He hid it very well. When it got really bad towards the end I used to say to my friends “he’s my perfect man, except the way he treats me SOMETIMES” (because it wasn’t all the times) and they literally would cry to me about how worried they were. But when you’re in it you don’t see it. I always just wanted it to go back to the beginning. Where he treated me like a princess. But he’d only do that when he scared me, nearly to a point of breaking up with him.
Thank you for sharing this and I hope you find someone that can give you the love you deserve without hurting you.
Thank you! Not something I’m necessarily needing right now but hopefully I will in the future! And thank you for responding sorry was such a long read, just had a lot of thoughts! 😭
I feel like incel-adjacent guys look at relationships between emotionally damaged women and abusive men and are like “Oh wow, how can I get me some of that?!” And then because of course they think any one woman represents all women, they ask “why do women™️ like abusive men?” This is like seeing some strung out woman and asking “why do women™️ have drug addictions? That woman would rather *pass out on the street* than date me???”
I agree with that, but I also think these men look for good dysfunctional people to basically suck out all their energy.. They have so many skills that should be considered entrapment. They know what to do and say.. then you're married, and they can remove the mask.
Believe it or not, I don't think it's intentional most of the time. Most people try to be the person that they think they are. Eventually, they show you who they really are and aren't even aware of their own issues. The amount of self-awareness that most people have is close to zero.
That's a fair take!
I agree with this but I would also add that, people who find it easier to find connections of all kinds don't over think these situations. Once you are in your element and confident in yourself whether it's justified or not you just become more attractive.
I think in some cases they’re just assertive and make it obviously known that they’re attracted to women, and that goes a lot farther than a guy who is sweet to women but too shy to make their intentions obvious
I think theres some truth to this. Being direct and to the point i got a whole lot farther than being cautious and overly considerate.
Absolutely and that goes both ways. A woman has a much better shot of getting my attention romantically if she is assertive rather than just cautious, polite and considerate.
100% as a straight woman, this is totally true to my experience. I often hear the same sentiment from my female friends and coworkers…why do all men want “bitches?” why do “mean girls” always get the guy? it’s bc “mean girls” ask for what they want (not bc they are actually mean).
I definitely think the dating pool is over represented by losers of both genders! For every guy or girl out there playing games and leaving a trail of angry people in their wake, there are five guys watching sports with their friends, and five girls baking cookies and watching chick flicks together. That’s one of the reasons it’s hard to find someone genuine!
This is absolutely true. I just posted about this. The “good” ones aren’t out looking or on dating apps. Just living their lives, going to the store, hitting the gym, or in your case…baking cookies. 😉
I’d say this would apply to me in a way, think of the stereotypical wife beater wearing douche, they’re usually all over other women hitting on everyone and all about the physical that’s why they get with a decent number of women who want some physical too, other side to this is they’re probably both miserable and aren’t really that interested in eachother so if you’re loooking for long term I wouldn’t really pay much mind to these guys but you still do have to get the woman interested in you somehow to start it off So for quick relationships it kinda does work but probably not so much for long term healthy relationships
I think the answer is simply confidence. I would have wrote what you wrote to the letter 15-20 years ago. To the letter. I am better looking than I thought I was, as it turns out. Not a brag as much as a nod to face/body dysmorphia. That shit is real. But at 28 after a nervous breakdown and some Therapy I figured out that I could be confident about having no confidence (imagine confidently saying to your date “I have no clue at all how to successfully date women but I’m willing to learn”) —I did better with that shit than I did at any time before it. Because I had the confidence to try and fail as myself. And I could learn it from there.
Confidence+honesty=charm
Ha. That makes sense. Didn’t put that together.
My girlfriend tells me this all the time! Im pretty confident, and that confidence always comes out in the ability to say “I have no idea what im doing”
Don’t forget funny funny works everytime. Idc if your 300lbs funny works
100%. If you get rejected 9 out of 10 times, well, you do the math. Get it out there!
Why do women care so damn much about confidence?? I hate to sound like a “nice guy”but there are plenty of great, honest hardworking men out there who would make great boyfriends but simply don’t have confidence or rizz so they’re invisible to women
Confidence is attractive in females as well. You want someone who has their life together, and who is confident they can keep it together.
Not nearly to the extent that it is in men though. Shyness in men is weakness, shyness in women is cute and endearing
As a formally shy woman, (I grew out of it), shyness is not cute and endearing. Stammering over your words and feeling yourself go red while your friends chat effortlessly to boys does not get the boys chasing you!
I’ve had many girlfriends say they found me being nervous on a first date charming. It can be disarming and a good green light for a woman to know that a guy who is usually well composed can get shy/coy/awkward when it’s just them together because the man is nervous.
Depends on personal preference.
Shyness and confidence aren't mutually exclusive
Exactly. You can be shy but still confident.
Huh? It’s entirely possible to be confident and introverted. They have nothing to do with one another. One is comfort with oneself, the other is a measure of social capacity,
Introversion was not what the previous comment spoke about. They spoke about shyness, which is basically the opposite of confidence. Someone who is shy would likely also be described as being timid, or at least appearing to be so. Timid is an antonym of confident.
Confidence isn’t something most people have, especially at younger ages. We’ve all got insecurities. Confidence comes in owning who you are. You can’t be someone else. You’re you. You just have to own it. And learn as you go. “I’m confident I’ve got no confidence with girls” plays better than “I have no confidence with girls” “Dating? Seriously I have no clue how to date? But I can have a conversation and I can order food. So it’s a start. Well, and shit, I’m here. It’s a start. I’m confident I’m talking nervously right now.” Why do they want it—varies a little from woman to woman. I think we all look for confidence somewhere? Like, confidence looks like a lot of different things. There are women that like quiet guys too. But they’d need to be the kind of women comfortable in making the first move or you’ll never meet. You want to learn how to indicate that you like a woman. That’s what I always got wrong as a younger guy. We’re the sex that initiates things, historically. I hope that makes some kind of sense.
Best advice any underconfident young man could hear
> Confidence isn’t something most people have, especially at younger ages Its got nothing to do with age tbh! Plenty of older people are not confident too. Confidence comes with experience as well and a 20 year old could have more experiences dating and be more confident than a 30 year old virgin who's never dated.
It only gets better from practice! Best thing that happened to me after divorce was FINALLY learning how to properly "date". Sure it started out stressful but wound up being an absolute blast. Going from codependency to just being able to be myself and have fun was a life changing experience.
Low confidence is an indicator of low status
....because you have to put yourself out there if anyone is going to notice you. No one is going to look at average ol' you, silently gliding through life, and think 'I'm gonna go out of my way to get with this person'.
*Humans* care so much about confidence. It’ll get you elected president, make you team leader, earn you promotions, make you a wealthy influencer, help you run scams and start cults… we’re wired to follow the guy (usually guy) who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about, even if he’s talking out of his ass. Sex appeal is an almost accidental side effect. (You even hear straight guys half-joking about finding confident guys hot.) Hell, it even works on bears. If you as a human stand tall and confidently put your arms in the air, it’ll start to second guess itself. If you panic and run, you can watch it instantly get its mojo back. (I don’t think bears also find confident humans sexy though, so keep your expectations reasonable.)
>(I don’t think bears also find confident humans sexy though, so keep your expectations reasonable.) You won the Internet today 🤣🤣🤣
It's less that women specifically want a guy with an arbitrary amount of confidence and more of the fact that guys with low confidence don't approach women and they tend to have less social hobbies. This means that they'll be very unlikely to get a girlfriend because they simply don't interact with women enough.
But also, human psychology just assumes that if someone is unhappy with themselves, there probably really is something wrong with them, but if they’re happy, they’re probably doing something right. It’s why influencers curating their lives on Instagram can be so effective at convincing people to take their advice on things.
Confidence IS important. Someone with no confidence who is always doubting themselves are inevitably going to fall into toxic co dependency. You can't make a great partner if you can't hold up your own life. The problem is that people tend to confuse confidence and arrogance. Confidence doesn't mean you don't question yourself and believe you can do no wrong.
Cuz I’m confident and I wanna be partners with someone who also has their shit together lol. My partner is actually extremely introverted. His job in radiology has him literally talking to no one most of the day and he’s very content with that. But he’s confident about his passions even though they may not be traditionally “manly” (anime, manga, League of legends) so much so that when he was talking about them his passion/ confidence in knowing these things really won me over. Even though I had no idea wtf he was talking about half the time 😅
They may not consciously care about it, but a confident person is easier to notice and more likely to approach a girl he likes. You can be the greatest, coolest person in the world but if you never talk to her she’ll never know (or might even assume that you think you’re better than everyone else if they look at you as a cool attractive person who never speaks with or interacts with others). Also, many shy people are little socially awkward, which few people are attracted to, even platonically. Popular people tend to be confident and at least a little charming.
Because it’s less likely that he will then try to exert some sort of pressure on you in an effort to either: latch on to your confidence and undermine it, get jealous and angry if you even speak to another man, become controlling due to lack of confidence, become suspicious, become clingy because he doesn’t want you out of his sight , treat you overly aloof in fear that you will leave him, etc. Lack of confidence in one’s own person really ends up leading to a whole host of undesirable behaviours. If you’re confident you know what you have to offer, you aren’t jealous, suspiscious, and or potentially violent. If the girl isn’t interested she isn’t scared to say “I think we aren’t clicking”. She knows that even if you don’t click you will both walk away having maybe enjoyed a platonic evening. Maybe you can be friends and she might introduce you to other friends of hers. Confidence isn’t braggadocio type behaviour. Much of that “macho” over the top stuff is because of a lack of confidence. Shyness isn’t necessarily lack of confidence. Saying “I know I’m a bit quiet and slower to warm up, but I’m very willing to give this a go” is okay. If she’s not into it, that’s just a normal incompatibility. Same with if a guy doesn’t want to be with a quiet reserved girl. Nothing wrong with either, just isn’t compatible with their wants.
Honestly, self-deprecating humour, like confidently pointing out our flaws, even sometimes exaggerating it, is the best kind of humour! 🤣 And yes, deep down it's a mark of confidence. Insecure people might be less prompted to joke about themselves.
Trying and learning is the key takeaway.
Bro, I been telling girls I'm not good at having game, as game since 1997. This shit works because it is like a subversion of expectations. They expect you to say some smooth shit, or attemp to. They're ready for that. When you sound kinda nervous and tell them your not good at this, it seems very genuine (for the most part, it is). That resonates with them.
We accept the love we think we deserve.
Oof, that one sure hits home.
So, nothing. Yup that tracks. -_-
This explains why I'm single. It really does. All my friends and their wives ask why I'm single and the truth is I just don't feel that "love" for myself. And you can't find love if you don't love yourself first and foremost. It's also why I think there are so many people in unsuccessful relationships, some people don't love themselves and are desperate to accept anything and anyone.
"I can fix him"
Even older is the myth of the " love of a good woman" and if her love doesn't fix him, it's her fault. She didn't love him enough or she just wasn't good enough.
Exactly, I bet that’s where a lot of the “I’ll fix him” stems from.
Fuck. I have to delete mine. Why isn't this higher? Motherfucker you know this is the answer. It can be FUN, like an old wooden rollercoaster with bolts flying everywhere as you ride it.
This.
Because horrible women exist as well.
They do, but you'll find a more common combination is an abuser and previously abused in relationships. Abusers don't like having to confront someone who stands up for themselves. I've seen it cut both ways. Dudes basically owned by their miserable wife and left a shell of who they are and women clearly with abuse in their past being suckered into relationships with the guys who would years later do time for beating the shit out of them. The worst part is the kids they have struggle to not repeat the mistakes of their parents and keep that awful cycle going.
> but you'll find a more common combination is an abuser and previously abused in relationships Citation?
source: leaving my house
Every rose has its thorn just like every cowboy
For the longest time I thought the every night has its dawn line was instead saying every knife has its dull.
Wait it doesn’t say that?
Yeah, but shitty people usually attract nice pushovers with no sense of healthy boundaries.
That or other people with equally shitty qualities that compound each others issues in a really fucked up complimentary way.
Some of the women do not value themselves. Some of the women believe they can “change” these men or the men will become better once they are with them. Some of the women lack moral compasses. Some of the women are victims of life and are damaged and cannot see these men are not good for them. Some of these women do not care. Some of these women like men like this.
Maybe we should stop and wonder why the op is so upset and why he thinks these guys are losers with nothing to offer before we immediately assume that they're actually losers with nothing to offer and that any woman who's attracted to them is an idiot. Obviously there are a lot of women out there - just like there are a lot of men out there - who make terrible choices in relationships, don't have any kind of moral compass, don't care, or are attracted to shitty people. Some people suck. But 99% of the time when a guy is complaining on the internet that women all like losers... They're not losers.
Some women also settle because they want to have a baby
Just because they’re in relationships doesn’t mean they’re healthy relationships
They may be really physically attractive, but the ones with those type of men are not usually mentally attractive. You’re not doing anything wrong if you are taking care of yourself and constantly improving and creating healthy habits. Anything else will follow.
like the one formerly known as amber heard
Same way horrible women get bfs and husbands. It can come from 100 different factors.
But let's also be real, bring attractive is usually the key factor. A lot of jerk/scumbags can get gfs due to being attractive just like many women who are horrible can get bfs due to being attractive.
People can tell themselves all the feel good fairy tales they want but attractiveness trumps all.
For the most part, yeah. Quasimoto had a good heart, Esmerelda still chose the attractive captain of the guard.
I love how brutally honest that movie is about that
It's so true lol. That's why I always laugh when redditors act like looks for guys aren't super relevant. They are, and its fine. It's just the way it is.
The little gargoyle guys encourage him too. They tell him to be confident, and that he's not too ugly, and that the girl will fall him in love with him. So brutal. Goes against all the typical Disney rules
This movie is a very painful and depressing watch for people who are insecure in their appearance
Yup. I'd bet 80-90% of the single people out there desparate to find someone would have no trouble if they went for someone they found ugly.
No doubt
Dang. I think I'm in the 10-20%
I'd say charisma trumps all, because attractive people can still be boring. Hot people who are duds when it comes to personality have no problem finding dates. Keeping them is harder. Charisma is probably at the root of why a lot of people are who are terrible still date often. They're good at selling themselves. But looks definitely matter more than a lot of traits people like to pretend are more important, so as not to sound shallow.
Hot + emotionally inept is a hell of a drug. People love trying to validate themselves by thinking "if I only I get could this distant, neglectful man/woman to fully accept and want me, then, *I might* *finally be enough*." The funny thing is that, more often than not, that same person would probably get bored with the relationship if they ever got their wish. What keeps them around is the promise of \*one day\* filling that void within themselves, which, ironically, could never possibly be filled by another person. Only you can heal yourself.
Women are generally pretty horrible at choosing partners
Also pretty horrible at dating, relationships, making life decisions, giving advice. im sure this list is 100s of things long but cba
Some people still buy Chryslers. Not everyone makes good choices.
Because they don't try that hard. They like themselves so just assume that others will too. I know a meth head with only a couple of teeth who still manages to have sex with someone. It'd be a big nope from me but I don't do meth. I'm guessing you are trying to punch above your level and its not working. Your expectations are maybe too high for what you put across. I'm not saying you don't deserve a 10 - you just aren't putting out "10" vibes. You need confidence to pull that off. A guy could be ugly, but really funny or smart - and get the girls who like funny or smart. A guy can be rich and good looking but a slimeball, but get the girls who just want rich and good looking. A guy can be a toad and a slimeball and penniless but still get a girl because HE thinks he's something and she believes it until she figures it out. Honestly, clean yourself up and just start talking to women. Don't ask them out. Talk to them like they are a guy you don't know well yet. Feel them out. When you are practiced, you will also be more relaxed and confident. And you might know them well enough by then to know that you have some things in common. And make that commonality the basis to ask them out. If they don't get the sense you are just a predator - that you are looking for a person to spend time with and not a sex doll to fuck, you will have better luck. Although, there may be someone who is just down for a fuck. Be prepared.
Because women are attracted to men who treat them horribly and cheat on them. They are attracted to the social aspects of being the victim, being sad, crying to friends, then being happy, and reporting back to friends how they ultimately won. If you are a nice guy not looking to screw around or create drama, then they will become bored with you and see you as weak with no options, so there is no sport in being with you. " only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally, men are only loved as long as they are providing something" chris rock.
Because they are BOTH losers. One is just better at hiding it/ manipulating perception than the other.
There is no shortage of women who walk blind into bad situations for probably countless reasons. Examples that come to mind: low self esteem, grew up in dysfunction, “I can fix him”… the list goes on. Also no lack of men willing to prey on them. People are people 🤷♂️
iirc a study asked people (in general) in traits they like/dislike in a relationship. Excluding the safe answers, there were a notable overlap between what people found attractive and what people in abusive or disfunctional relationships have. The study is less about blaming a particular gender, but pretty much that we as a species are pretty shit at judging character.
Exactly.. it took me a long time to leave my abusive relationship because he claimed he was trying to “heal” or was “struggling with something” so I focused on showing him “grace” and “patience” until I realized that this was a pattern that would never change or stop. It just got worse and worse over time, to the point I could accurately predict his next move every single time (because it always has this component of showing love, criticizing or bringing you down so you feel insecure or afraid, then pulling you back in - and this repeats OVER AND OVER AND OVER). Now I’m able to easily spot an abuser, even just on the first meeting. But it took numerous years of abuse from different partners to get adapt at spotting this.
Because women are socialized to tolerate abuse, and men are socially rewarded for abusive behaviour. Scratch any abusive relationship and you’re going to find a pattern that starts from childhood. If it just seems normal to you you’re going to compromise/rationalize in ways that seem really self sabotaging to others.
An extremely underrated answer
The awful depressingly cliche truth is that we spend a lot of our adult lives repeating patterns we inherited or were subjected to by our parents. Becoming your own self-actualized person is a constant struggle to unlearn those behaviours.
And it really is. I am constantly rerouting myself mentally. It is an arduous journey, but I'm proud to say I'm taking it because the world needs more people to do it.
some guys are good at faking it until the woman is locked in. then women tend to be distrustful of actual good men. source: i am a woman who has experienced both
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because some of those girlfriends and wives are equally shitty people.
Some women have low self esteem, less resources, and not enough support around them to help them out of poor situations. Some men as well as some women too are master manipulators. We accept the relationships we think we deserve.
Trust me neither of those people are happy If you're a bloke and you're horrible then nobody likes you. If you're a girl who can't see blatant red flags then it's often because they've been normalised and they can't pick up on them. For example if their father was a cunt, or an ex, or a brother or anyone so when men treat them like cunts it seems normal and the alarms that would be blaring in others don't get triggered. They aren't relationships you wanna be jealous of, it's trauma replaying over and over a lot of the time
for me it was all about being jacked and great in bed. women i slept with would overlook pretty much everything else. like they rather fuck a hot guy in the back of a civic than a good normal guy after a nice date in his condo or whatever. it’s weird but best to not complain and just adapt / take advantage of it.
Because women don't want nice guys. Also depends what you think is horrible. A guy that doesn't worship the ground they walk on and doesn't let women walk all over them is not a horrible guy. Women don't like weak men, they want someone who can make a decision and that value themselves. Now if you're talking truly horrible guys, guys that are abusive or cheat. That is usually because the women that like these types are also all messed up.
I'll tell you from the victims perspective. I was 21. I had basically no one else, I was struggling to get grounded on my feet and my dysfunctionalnmentall I'll parents weren't overly helpful. He could call for his own doctors appointment. He used food banks when he was low on money. He liked me. Wow. And he had his license!! I love love and I want to be in love like those movies; so he mirrored me. He was validating and agreeable, romantic and swept me up quickly and while I resisted alot I went along with it because I had nothing else healthy to go upon and no one to discuss things with, and besides, I'm probably just a little insecure, right??? WRONG. This person has absolutely desecrated my life for 12 years and because I was stupid to also become the mother of his child I can't leave. They do it as a coping mechanism. He needs to meet his needs. He covertly exploits and uses people under the guise of being friendly but being as close to him as I am I see through the bs. He has shallow friendships with these people and doesn't engage unless it can benefit him in some way. AMA if you'd like.
You're thinking about it too much. This post is proof. Some guys can talk to 20 women in one night and if one takes the bait that's all they care about. Other guys get rejected once and never try again. Just by pure numbers some of these guys will be losers
Yeah literally, the woman is making the choice, why not respect it? If she wants an abuser she can have them
>also, if this is the case, then why should I even improve myself? Do you really want the same kind of women who date the shitty guys? If you find that reasonably sane and attractive women with good characters are dating shitty guys then you don't have to improve, it's just luck and "first one to get there" or right time. If you find that the girls who are dating shitty guys are shitty then you usually try to improve so that you can get the type of girl you want. When I dated the first guy I dated it could have been literally anyone. I would have never rejected anyone for having flaws, he was just the first one to take an interest in me, and maybe he had a ton of flaws, but nothing could ever beat the fact that he's the one who paid attention to me. You have to like people if you want them to like you back. I feel like a lot of these incels who can't get a girlfriend just don't like anyone and then wonder why no one likes them.
You posted a thread 20 times saying you have no job, no friends, no social skills, and no interests outside of playing video games all day and you complain in 20 other threads about "horrible men" getting girlfriends instead of you. If you actually had a gf do you know what she would post? She'd be saying why am I with a guy with no job, no friends, no social skills and no interests outside of playing video games all day. He's a horrible man. He's boring, entitled, and doesn't think for one second about anyone other than himself, much less my needs. You're 21. If you simply went out and had an interest in anything you could probably get a gf. Stop whining about other people and do something. Get a hobby. Get outside or go to the gym. Get an education. Stop wasting your life and stop boring people with your negativity.
Damn...
Bingo
Daddy issues. If a girl has an abusive or absent father, they normalize this behavior in men and seek men that do this to them.
First of all, because of all of the things other people said here: attractiveness and confidence on behalf of the guy, low self esteem on behalf of the girl, and the "I can fix him" factor. But I'll give you a more "incel-like", but technical and maybe useful for you, response, using YouTuber HoeMath's explanation and "zones" model. Note that this only applies to the average western cis relationship and is not the most scientific thing ever, but still, it might help you. We guys usually have a single scale on which we value women. It can have multiple factors like personality, physical traits, attitudes, but at the end of the day we just add all of that up on a single number from 0 to 100, and if the girl is above, let's say, 70, we like her. Women have 2 scales There's the good guy scale, which is the one society tells you about: be nice to her, show her you care, give her stuff, etc. It can be summarized as "investment". These are traits of a good person, but honestly, anyone can give these things to her, and pretty girls pretty much expect them as the bare minimum by default. And then there's the bad boy scale: how attractive you are, how much money you make, how strong are you. Essentially, it measures how masculine and powerful you are. Most of us kinda notice in some way that the bad boy scale exists, but can't quite put a finger on what it is, and society usually doesn't tell you about it cuz it sounds a bit harsh to say that this is what women want because in an ideal world this stuff doesn't matter and you should only have good guy traits, but this isn't an ideal world. In an ideal relationship, you pull her in with the bad boy stuff and she stays cuz you're a good guy at heart. This is what HM calls the "prince charming" zone. If you are neither a good guy nor a bad boy, you don't exist to women. This is the "ghost/not people" zone. If you are a good guy, but not a bad boy, you enter the friendzone. This is where guys usually fail and they think "I did everything right, why doesn't she like me?", with the answer being that they weren't bad boy enough. You invested enough to be her friend, but she had no reason to be attracted to you. And finally, there's the bad boy zone if you are a bad boy but don't give her any good guy investment. The interesting thing here is that for some reason, a bad boy is more fun than a prince charming, at least for a little while. This is who the women you mention that ended up with bad men ended up with. They fell for the bad boy and for some reason or another didn't get out, probably expecting him to change. Not all of them stay, but, still, it's almost always the case that bad boys are better at getting girls than good guys. So the way to get the girl that wants a bad boy, which is the average girl even if she doesn't realize it, is not by being even nicer trying to convince her to want a good guy; but rather by getting bad boy traits so she's attracted to you, but treat her nicely.
A lot of people are really good at hiding who they really are, especially if it's in service of attaining something they want.
Yeah manipulation to get someone to like you is a skill that many learn, it’s good for people to be a little wary if things are going *too* perfectly for that reason
Exactly, and I wish I had known this a few years ago! I got married to someone after just 6 months of knowing them because everything was so perfect and I was sure I had found "the one". Turns out I was very wrong, and I'm currently working on getting divorced.
I’m sorry about that but hope for the best! I can’t say I know how to properly screen for that kind of manipulative behavior because someone really good at manipulation will be able to pass any “test” you throw at them. Sometimes they can tell on themselves, but often they are extremely careful with what words they say so that isn’t a great method either.
Girl I work with... we've been pretty good friends for like 20 years (we will talk and hang out for a few months, then disappear for 6 months lol)... recently got divorced, and a few months after she was asking for the number of one of my work friends... also pretty good friend, we go to the bar from time to time after work... I had to be the asshole like "girl, normally I'd never shut a dude down like this, but anyone but him, I'm fairly certain he has 3 active girlfriends like... right now" I don't think it's possible to ever be completely immune from the BS the other sex throws at you... if you met the dude he seems like a nice guy, real down to earth, but damn I couldn't let her fall prey to that
I was thinking something similar. I'm not sure these guys exist in huge numbers (at least not as many as the internet seems to think), but to the extent that they do exist: if you're comfortable being a piece of shit, you can lie and manipulate yourself into relationships a lot easier than people who treat others as human beings with feelings worthy of respect.
This is so true. My brother's marriage recently ended. She cheated on him, stole money, did a bunch of other weird shit. Then her family was like "oh yeah... Crazy ol' Jessica" and we found out from them that her behavior at the end of the relationship was how she had behaved generally for YEARS before my brother met her. Then she "got better." Her family thought he was a really good stable influence on her. But it seems she just had some kind of double life going on where she successfully hid the crazy from us for 8 years and then mask started slipping...
Women are often attracted to these types of men because they exhibit very masculine behavior. They are generally assertive and take action when they want to, and don't care what others think. This comes across as confidence, which most people find attractive. They also have the typical bad boy vibe which initially draws women in. All these behaviors turn out to be toxic/negative later on, but by then the men are ready to move on anyway because they don't want healthy, long term relationships.
Being attractive to women is totally different from being a good person or a good citizen. They are completely orthogonal/ independent sets of traits / skills. Many guys are told: “just be a good person, and women will be attracted to you.” That’s just not true at all. A lot of scumbags are totally irresistible to women. And a lot of great guys struggle.
(Different) Standards
We're dumb
Sometimes people don't start to suck until you've been with them awhile. That's when sunk cost fallacy kicks in. Hardly anybody is that terrible when you first meet them.
Women love drama and those types of men provide an endless feast for them. The guys who are nice usually get dumped / divorced for being too boring and not making her tinkle.
Consider bad men equal to drugs, alcohol, and gambling. Same with bad women. They will use you and abuse you and leave you feeling empty and with nothing to show but scars. Sounds horrible but why would ANYONE do that? Because even beautiful people or average looking people want to feel loved and valued even at the expense of going down hill, even for a little while. It can be fun but damaging. Thrilling and intoxicating but you feel guilty afterwards. Sometimes it's the only high you think you can get. Without healthier alternatives people indulge bad behavior if their self esteem is low.
They are more attractive than you. Get good.
Same reason how horrible women are able to get men. People lower the creepy bar to attractive people. Both men and women do this. Alot of people are willing to date someone with red flags if they are attractive
Try focusing on what you are doing wrong. One of the things you are doing wrong is getting upset that other people are making their own choices.
People subconsciously seek out partners with whom their relationship will mirror the dynamics of their caregivers. Women with abusive father frequently end up with abusive men.
Here’s the thing. The caregiver does NOT have to be the opposite sex in order for your relationship to mirror is. Too many people apply “daddy issues” where “mommy issues” would fit significantly better. ESPECIALLY when you take into account that a LOT of women’s first bullies are their mother, not their father. Their father may have been absent, but the shit their mothers put them through molds they way they show up in relationships AND what they look for in a partner.
"With seemingly nothing to offer" OK so what do you have to offer?
Because women love asshole men.
A study showed that women are more attracted to and want to reproduce with men who have dark triad personality traits. In other words, they like the silver toothed psychopaths/sociopaths. I guess it’s more exciting to be treated like less than shit? Then when they get older and less desirable they catch the last branch with a decent income and live happily ever after before they’re shit out of luck. It’s just human nature. The prevalence of dead beat father figures in modern times also plays a role. not speaking for all ladies ofc
Because they aren’t *boring*.
Women are historically not good at making good choices for themselves
Which one are you pursuing? A future wife, a casual dating scenario, or casual sex? Align your interests with your partners. Being on the same page is key.
They remind them of the fathers. Same thing happens with guys and their mothers.
Just hop on tik tok and look up wade wilson and look at all the comments from the ladies.
I think some girls feel they need a man to feel good about themselves
Many people are more afraid of being alone than being in a bad relationship. Thus they put up with a lot of crap.
Because they don't have low self-esteem. They don't see themselves the way you described them, so they are able to project confidence, however unearned, which is what a lot of women first notice about a guy. It's hard to compete against blind confidence in social situations a lot of the time, people will tend to be drawn in more by emotion than logic or reason.
You're cooking something and it requires apples. You don't have any so you go to the store. Allllllll the damn apples are bruised up *but you still need apples*. So you set your bar for acceptability lower and choose from the shit pile of bad apples. That's what's happening only with picking men instead of apples.
They don’t act obnoxious at first. At first they are nice and sweet and caring. Then they show their true selves when the woman is hooked or trapped in the relationship.
im sure my friends think i am a looser in some fashion, but i always am the one pushing the women away and my friends are always chasing down the women and getting rejected. you cant nice your way into a womans heart or pants. women perceive and are attracted to social status, and this doesnt necessarily mean money or power you need to be more selfish to get a womans attention/respect, you cant view women as some sort of mysterious sacred entity that deserves nothing but worship from you. i view women as humans who are more crazy than guys and that they want something from me that requires work i dont want to put in, but i still find some of them sexy, so things sometimes get out of control. plus woman are always pulling crap. girl im talking to now is trying to tell me how to organize my freezer. the way i dont organize my freezer is driving her insane and she wont stop talking about it, i told her many times its fine and i want it left alone. i think most "nice" guys would jump at the opportunity to "please" a women, not realizing these little moments are tests to see if you are a push over. if you are a push over then its over. i hate knowing this stuff as if makes me seem like a player or that i am a manipulator, but in my mind i am pretty nice but in a leave me alone sort of way
I remember reading an article on a study that found that women who participated were far less likely to notice sociopathic and narcissistic character traits in men than other men were able to identify. Also these traits are in a lot of ways beneficial in our hyper capitalist society.
Because "horrible" is quite subjective, and people only complain about the bad moments. You can see a relationship, and you only hear about the one or few bad things they've done, and not all the other great qualities they have to get them that relationship in the first place. So people think "why can they get boyfriends/girlfriends and i cant!? this is unfair!"
You may be able to attract the wrong women but they'll be the wrong women. No one wins.
I’ve noticed this too. I think it’s mostly this: confidence and or masculinity. A guy who clearly has no business being THAT confident.. but IS that confident, can get girls. Women like confident men. A guy who is a jerk or a loser or only cares about himself often has masculine traits (that the nice guy does not have) that a woman is naturally attracted to. Women like masculine men
Do you brush your teeth? Do you wipe your butt properly? There’s your problem. https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/s/jnauQj8Y4y
Horrible people are often charismatic and manipulative out of necessity. They put a lot of effort in to pretending to be good people and they slowly groom their partners into accepting their crap behaviors.
Charisma.
You should work on yourself for yourself. The added benefit is attracting a HEALTHY partner.
A lot of “losers” have the time and energy to a) stay horny and b) pay attention/be present. As a person who decided to take life more seriously later in life, I’ve seen both ends of the pendulum. Do what you’ve been doing and understand the above, and you’ll be fine.
Masochistic girlfriends and wives.
Because at first they are nice and then the real them shows up..
The fact that you are confused by this likely stems from the same reason you "can't find someone." You don't interact with enough women on a normal human to human basis. It seems like you aren't viewing them as people, but as potential mates. Get out there and make friends. Don't chase women. Don't seek to date. Just interact with people like a normal person.
For every horrible man is a horrible woman. Everyone has a match out there.
It's mostly what KWH said. These people are seeking to fill a void and that void is usually filled with trouble. If you're not trouble then you won't attract those people. I used to think that I was the odd one out too and we kinda are but the odd one out in a good way. You don't want to get involved with all the things those people have to offer. These things you're worried about are worries of the flesh. They are not of God. Just keep bettering yourself and the right person will come along.
People change. Often someone who’s horrible now wasn’t that horrible before. + love blinds.
Well, your mindset has a lot to do with it. Don’t try to force things. They’ll happen when they’re supposed to. Don’t look down on others. You don’t know what they’re offering or what goes on behind closed doors.
You have a self-esteem problem. "I just dont get what im doing wrong." This quote means (a) that you somehow know you are doing something wrong; (b) you're not sure what it is; but (c) you're sure that it is something. You are also proving to be incredibly judgmental and emotional by your third paragraph. Rather than looking outward and thinking about what others bring to the table, I'd recommend figuring out how to have the self-awareness to put your best self forward. Because this ain't it.
Sometimes people don't start to suck until you've been with them awhile. That's when sunk cost fallacy kicks in. Hardly anybody is that terrible when you first meet them.
I think most men lack the Cs. confidence. charisma. Charm. Car. Cat.
The undesireables make women excited because they're edgy, unpredictable & mysterious. Women tend to marry the safe man because he's stable, provides for her well being & is attentive. Women who chase the rebel may marry the safe man but secretly they will still always desire the wild one's. Any women who goes with wild boys tend to always want that. Any women who goes with safe men tend to always want that.
Women mate. Impossible to fathom.
Women choose them.
Why do women love the beauty and the beast? Girls want a monster to tame lol
I like it for the songs
girls like to be abused, mistreated and lied to... this is their jam. Then they settle for a simp and cheat behind his back
Have you ever looked at their wives and girlfriends? They’re always fat trashy hoes. You’ll never see some loser dude with an actual catch. It’s always some Cretan you would never even touch.
i have sometimes seen and heard of hot women with assholes.
1. They are better looking that you. 2. They are more shameless than you (confident?) 3. You are actually worse than them, but don’t realize it. Take your pick.
It’s almost like…idk…women are people. Or something insane like that. And also have faults and preferences and…nah. Nah that can’t be it.
Yeah bro just get all toxic
Whether they admit it or not women have a deep seated tendency to be attracted to the appearance of power. It’s not their faults it’s a primordial instinct. “Bad Boys” are dangerous and often aggressive. Thousands even just hundreds (hell … There are places still like) of years ago these traits were deadly for other people and women. However if a woman was on his good side, she would survive maybe even thrive. It doesn’t quite work like that anymore in civilized places, but the instincts have been honed for 100s of thousands of years. I have a friend who is a brilliant engineer. He is an actual rocket scientist. He struggle with finding women that might like him like you do. He actually trained himself through study to speak differently and be louder and more confident. He actually practiced. Then the women started to come and he ended up marrying a stunning woman with a great character.
Why were you downvoted for that?
Some people don’t like the uncomfortable realities of biology, psychology, and our past. The truth is the evolution of our species does leave some uncomfortable truths that are difficult to accept in a modern social context.