When deciding whether or not to repair an older car most people operate on the very mistaken thinking that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot when the value of the car isn't all that much, and that is very much the wrong way to think about it.
From a financial standpoint you need to look at it from the standpoint of can you buy something better for the cost of the repair plus whatever you can sell the car for in its current state. When making that evaluation keep in mind that buying a different older used car comes with unknowns and uncertainty or as with your existing car you have a pretty good idea of what's wrong with it, all the little quirks and such.
With new head gaskets done properly and new timing components, there's every reason to believe that that motor will be good for at least another hundred thousand miles if not more. That doesn't mean that it won't need other stuff but even fairly extensive expensive suspension work is likely to stay around 1 to 2K at most.
This is exactly the same logic I use. I have no idea where the whole "if the repairs cost more than the car is worth get a new one" logic came from. Like oh good instead of spending the money fixing this car I have and ending up with a nicely fixed car I'll spend the same amount I would have on repairs and buy another shitbox while selling the existing car for a very low price. I guess maybe it made sense in a different economic era.
If the car is rusty the new car might be a better option.
Not everything is worth saving.
Or cut losses with a unreliable German vehicle and get something Japanese. Time loss with unreliable vehicles does matter.
Rust and electrical issues are two good reasons to dump a car, but mechanical failures or issues like axles/brakes/driveline/engine on a clean chassis are usually worth fixing
Like most vehicles of the era, pull whatever circuits are in it, replace the electrolytic capacitors before they leak and you will be much better off. Not sure exactly what circuit cards are on these, but it would be worth finding out and updating them for sure.
Just did it on an old truck recently. Completely changed the way it runs.
Yeah that's true there's definitely a longer term reliability aspect to it too. Like if the car is gonna be a complete money pit moving forward then yeah might be a good idea to move on. I care a lot about having a trustworthy mechanic that can tell me if the car is gonna be a money pit for this exact reason.
Just a theory, but I bet it came from dealers and mechanics who sell used cars on the side.
"Hey, the repairs will cost 3.5k (new motor on a relatively spotless car) but that's more than the car is worth. Buy this slightly newer car for 6k instead, and I'll deal with your old car for you" they take your car, fix it for the quoted 3.5k repairs, and sell it to the next chup for another 6k
This!!!! My main daily is a Prius with almost 400k and its cost me 1/4 what the yearly combined payments on the cheapest new one would be. Fix your old stuff, stop participating in consumerism, and keep stuff on the road.
The usual objection involves the cost of repairs when you don't have a warranty. That objection is objectively bullshit. Over time the cost of repairs will be less than the cost of car payments 99plus percent of the time.
For some reason taxi cab companies aren’t using a flat four and AWD system. They do love Toyota products— I wonder why….
Hybrid variants of the: Prius, RAV4, Sienna, and Camry are like the new Crown Victorias of “abuse me harder” and I keep going. That’s why taxi places love them
This is the way. New car new problems. It's why I keep my 97 wagons going.
Sure I've spent well more than they're worth on parts and upgrades but I know what's wrong with them and they're cheap and easy to work on.
Doing as much of the work as possible yourself helps cut the costs and makes you appreciate your machine more.
Yep. People will skip that big repair and then go buy another comparable older car... with someone else's problems.
Horrible way of looking at things.
My 2007 Matrix is starting to need some repairs, and I'm glad to do it, that car has *at least* another decade of hard daily driving on it, worst case scenario.
The value of the car is worthy of consideration if something were to happen to it necessitating its replacement like an accident. You go put $3500 into a $3500 car, one week later it gets totaled, assuming you have full coverage insurance you’re only going to get $3500, and the other $3500 was thrown in the garbage. If you didn’t have full coverage, now you’re out $7k.
Well get full coverage then.
So glad I live somewhere where only liability isn't an option. Our body shop would have so many broke customers trying to nickel and dime repairs.
Exactly. I put 1.5k into my wife’s 200k mile car this summer. The car is only worth 2k. But I know the engine has plenty of life left in it, and the transmission seems strong and can be replaced with a used unit pretty cheaply if needed. New control arms and brakes and her car has been way more reliable than your average 3-4k used car.
That’s a phenomenally good price for head gaskets , timing belt service and clutch. If you have the money I would do it, the car will be good for another 100k aside from some more wheel bearings possibly.
Also you may want to start taking some ownership of some maintenance items. Those early foresters are actually built on Impreza chassis (98-01 Impreza is identical, even the dash is the same). and share nearly all components with Impreza . You can be doing brake jobs yourself from numerous videos that exist online for over a decade.
It's a good price but not really an exceptionally great one. If you look at the cost of those three things done separately it seems really good but that's because it's a lot of the same labor. Doing a clutch when the engine is already out is really the cost of the parts and maybe an extra half hour. Same for timing when the heads are coming off for the gaskets anyway.
This is a great point. The shop will do pretty well on that rate But you (vehicle owner) are getting a lot of work done for that price. I’d expect to spend 2/3 of that alone just on head gasket work.
Why would you pull the entire engine to replace the head gaskets, timing stuff and water pump? I didn’t. Unfortunately, shortly after doing all the work, it started gobbling oil. That wasn’t so bad, but when the transaxle started howling, we sent it down the road
You don't have to, but if you have pulled engines before and are comfortable with everything needs to be disconnected and have a hoist, the extra time in pulling the engine is made up for with ease and speed in doing the gaskets.
No it's not. Parts for the whole thing with using the proper, best, OEM or OEM replacement parts is $600 when you account for fluids. That's OEM MLS gaskets, Exedy Clutch, Aisin timing kit, OEM water pump because the ones in the kits are trash, OEM rear main seal.
Can be done in 8 hours without a lift.
In this scenario, the real question is "can I buy a better more reliable car than this WILL BE for $3500 or less? That answer is likely no in this market. Plus the devil you know is always better than jumping into another $3500 car they you know nothing about.
Only thing I’d change with this thinking is that to compare apples to apples, you’d want to look at a price point of cars you could get for $3500 + whatever you can get out of the forester in its current state. But personally, even if that’s another $3500 (doubtful!) I’d probably still pick the devil I know.
Now, if the plan was to upgrade to a *new* car in the medium/long term anyway, this might be a time to cut one’s losses. Obviously the math is almost always better to keep what you have and fix it vs taking on payments, but it’s a little silly to pretend that you’re not losing something driving a 23+yo car vs something newer. Safety, comfort, amenities, piece of mind from reliability.
I must agree. This is the proper thought process when driving cheaper cars. And op says it’s rust free so I’ll support it. I’m all about the devil you know with cars.
No you’re not crazy. You should get years more out of it. If you only get another year out of it that’s still only $300 a month to drive if, much less than a new car payment.
I regularly see Subarus that age with 300k miles on it.
At some point it might need a power steering pump. Maybe an alternator. And wheel bearings. But again if you just keep fixing it you can drive it until it throws a rod.
I tend to prefer the older cars. Especially old subaru. I would personally very much like to fix the old, and keep it going.
Whenever I've done this in the past with older cars... There's something else right around the corner.
That's OK, and probably the better financial decision.
Depends on how reliable you need your car to be. And how well you handle the unknown, and surprise stress/repair bills.
I liked my 09 outback more than my 23 outback. But the 23 outback isn't always in the shop, canceling road trips, making it hard to get to work.... Etc... Just one those things.
3.5k sounds expensive for engine work. Sti swap it 🤤
Do it! I have a nearly identical 1999 and will keep it until it will go no more. As others have said, it'll need other stuff, too, but it's a 2001 Forester with a stick. Such a great car to drive.
My thoughts on it are do it!! 3500 would only get you basically what you have! You know what you got already so it’s up to you on how much you like the car and whatever else is wrong with it!!
Nope. I put $3K into a vehicle with 250K miles and still going strong at 280K miles
It all depends on so many things. Is the body good? What’s the interest rate on a new vehicle?. How many miles do you drive a year? What other issues does it have? Have you fixed? Etc.
I actually bought my current daily driver with 225000 miles on it for $3200.
12 years later it’s still my daily just not a ton of miles anymore. It’s been a great vehicle and I’m happy I bought it, from a guy at work with all the records. Single owner, etc.
Looking at your photo and the fact it’s rust free etc. I’d do it. 🤷🏻♀️
If you plan on holding onto the car for a long time. It's not crazy, as long as structurally the car is good and it doesn't need any other crazy maintenance. Ask your service advisor/mechanic if the car needs anything else. Again that's given you trust their opinion as well..
Just had a customer with his 2011 Forester, manual trans hit 400k+ miles. It all comes down to deep pockets and does it make sense.
If you know your car well enough and the maintenance on it, then no, you're not crazy. Me I put 4k on a 2003 rusted forester. Solid ass car, but I needed something to hop me along until I could afford a new one. I think to answer your question do you think it will last you another 50-60k? If yes then you're good. The car market is insanely expensive right now. I'll pay 4.5k on interest on my new subaru. You're winning
I have an Outback 1 year older than yours and it has 148k on it. Same thing with the gaskets has happened and had been in limbo between selling it as is, or getting the repairs. Was quoted around what you said and ended up just doing the job myself. It’s really not the craziest process if you’re not intimidated with it and getting the engine out and finding a reliable machine shop isn’t that tough of a process. It’s just about having the time and the resources. I basically ended up feeling like, if I’m owning something this old to begin with, I may as well figure out what’s going on with it, and have an understanding with my vehicle. Not the first and won’t be the last thing that’ll happen to it.
I have a 99, right now with about 275,000 miles. I've probably put 6 grand into repairs and another 2.5 into maintenance in the past 5 years I've owned it, works out to about 140$ a month, lets say my car is worth between to and three and I take 40ish dollars off per month or about 100$ a month in costs before dirt cheap insurance and registration. There is no car I could buy for that amount of money that would be any more reliable than my current forester.
That being said I am replacing mine in the near future with a newer and lower mileage one I am getting a good deal on, I am finally starting to have transmission issues and I use the car for long (1500+ mile) road trips on a regular basis, the last of which I was left stranded in the middle of nowhere Oregon, near a tiny place called Burns Jct. It's more that there is something wrong on a regular basis than the cost which is finally driving me out of it. At that mileage, in that condition, if it isn't regularly broken I don't see any reason not to spend the money and repair it. As they say, the devil you know if better than the devil you don't.
Where I’m from, 3.5K is a good price for the work being done. If you love the car and love driving it then you should consider getting the work done. Especially if it’s rust free. If you drive it for another 10 years (with no car payment!) then you’ve come out ahead. Life is short, do what makes you happy. Just my 2c.
I put $4k into "refreshing" my 99 outback about 6 years ago - along with the timing belt that was due at the time, I had every rubber part (every belt, every boot, etc.) replaced, all the fluids (diffs, transmission (MT), cooling, oil, etc.) replaced along with a few electrical quirks being addressed. I figured that paying that amount would help me get another 100k miles out of a car that I love driving and was FAR cheaper than buying a new car.
Luckily, I live in an area where rust isn't an issue to speak of, so maintenance is really just about the consumables - brakes, struts, tires, batteries, wiper blades, fluids, etc.
In this market, as long as the rest of the car is tidy, it's worth it. $3500 is a good deal for what you said they quoted but I'll give you some helpful advice having owned a couple of those and had work done and did some myself. Make sure they use the multilayer metal head gaskets from Suabru, nothing else. Make sure they use the OEM water pump and metal water pump gasket. Personally I did the OEM Subaru timing belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, gaskets...everything Subaru OEM. No parts store stuff. No regrets here. Zero issues.
You're basically doing every difficult maintenance job in 1 go, which for $3500 is a pretty good deal compared with doing them as separate jobs. Knowing that you wont have to worry about the timing belt, rear main leaks, rocker cover leaks, or head gaskets for the foreseeable future makes this pretty much a no brainer for me. The only thing I would add is to replace the thermostat while you're getting it done. Make sure you go with an OEM part for it and the water pump, as aftermarket ones are (almost always) crap.
I’ve put that much into my 2000 at least. But having owned it for 8 years I know it like the back of my hand-know what’s good and what’s going to need replaced soon (which isn’t much). It’s as simple as an OBD-II car can be, is stick shift when those are getting hard to find, and has very little rust. Those 3 things mean far more to me than resale value, and buying another used car is just uncovering a whole new list of problems to fix. So yeah, keep it.
Good looking car!
I’ve got the same color combo.
https://preview.redd.it/oimzxmgu9whc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff1f23f98cfe5a65823b5344c1e6a72154b97d13
A HG job will normally cost about $2400. Manifold gaskets should be parts only as well as timing belt, water pump, thermostat, timing belt tensioners and pulleys because they all come off when doing a HG job. Replacing the clutch for another $1k isn't bad so the quote is fairly reasonable. Just make sure the mechanic replaces all seals and gaskets that are normally accessible when doing a HG job. [FelPro sells a full gasket set](https://www.drivparts.com/part-details.html?brand_code=BCWV&part_number=HS%2026170%20PT-1&part_name=Head%20Set). Tell him to use this. Your car should easily go another 100K or 150k with the realization that suspension and steering parts wear out and that replacing them at this age is part of owning a car but far cheaper than buying a new $30K+ car.
Cars over 20 years old and over 200K miles I fall back and say it is best to buy newer less that 5 years old with cash. The reason is reliability going forward, and this depends on how much fixing you have already done on the car before putting in another $3500.
At a certain point, you could be putting in $1,000 every 3 months on fixing components. If you haven't I would spend a $150 and get a detailed inspection on the car and have the mechanic mention what things will likely need to be replaced in the next 2 years and list those things in order of importance for safety to get a full picture of what you are looking at fixing.
From there you can make a better decision.
"Can I buy a more reliable car for $3500?" is not realistic in the scheme of things. Almost all used cars unless they are less than 4 years old will have some maintenance work that needs to be fixed that will likely cost $2000+ in repairs to get the car in good working order. This needs to be added into the equation. The idea of 20 years is part availability. Most cars after 20 years you cannot get OEM parts so you start fixing cars with junkyard parts the reliability goes down so you start throwing good money after bad.
My target price for a car is $.10/mi for cost of ownership. Look at all the car you've owned and you'll that's a pretty good number for a good used car.
So i'd be asking if i can get another 35,000 happy trouble free miles from the Fozzi and the answer is a pretty likely "YES". You should go for it.
My brothers 2007 Fozzi has 270,000 miles and 12 trips from New England to FL pulling a way overloaded trailer.
It's a good price for the work, but you should limp it along and save. You can get a two generations newer forester, likea 2010-2012, for ~7k without looking too hard (unless you can tell me that most of the typical failure points have been fixed recently). Age and use are equally detrimental to a car and 2001 is really getting on in years. The price for the repair is half of a much newer model. (I say this as someone who likes keeping cars for the long haul)
To most ya your crazy, fortunately you can do what ever the F you want with your money. If I had a forester, manual Tran’s and a turbo I would put 3.5k into it unfortunately I can’t find one!!!!! Everyone has a preference dude.
Your payment on this forester is now $291.66 a month for the next 12 months.
This will follow you around, always appearing in your rear view mirror, for 40 months, to see who ends up ahead. Winning with the Corolla or Nissan Versa lease seemed like cheating.
https://preview.redd.it/0p0byvcuhthc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eea93fbdac7459e129fcc102aa3d5872941b1b2c
That price is insane. I do that job for 1k + parts which is about $500, $600 with fluids. Find out what parts he is using. Needs to be OEM STI MLS Headgaskets, OEM waterpump, OEM thermostat, Aisin or Gates Timing belt kit and an Exedy OEM Clutch.
If the person doesn't know Subarus, don't have him do the job.
What kind of warranty is being offered?
Also, I'd have one request-- an honest overall assessment once it's apart. How warped are the heads? How clean are the internals? There's doing the head gaskets, and then there's doing them so they're good for another 100k+. You don't want to be dealing with this again in 20k miles.
I see why some people will throw in a used engine from the boneyard instead.
I have 2006 Prius as well as a subie. I've dumped 4.5k on a new hybrid battery(and other things) , and then another 1.3k on something else that broke..
I got the car cheap as hell. Low miles and good maintenance record. For me the ~8k I've spent total on the car has been worth it because it's likely to run for a really really long time now.
I don't care about having a NEW car. I just want one that runs.
Now if I get another major repair bill soon. I'll likely ditch the car and accept my losses. I'm gambling the repairs will get me another 3-5 years at least out of it.
I spent like 5k+ fixing up a 04 legacy with 250k on it. They put a motor with 140k in it, and did all the gaskets. And I did a bunch of other suspension and brake parts. Plus battery coil and plugs and stuff. Should get me at least another 50k or more out of it
My 2006 H6 Outback blow head gasket, so I replaced the motor and sold it. Got $500 out of it, if not would have been tow costs. I think of it as keep another one on the road for someone to enjoy :) Great memories in the old Roxy Wagon!
I’m in a very similar situation, I have an 02 forester that I bought with 260k for about $2000. It has a leaking head gasket, but it looks like the previous owner put head gasket sealant. I’ve been driving it for about a year and a half and just hit 275k. All I’ve done is change the spark plugs and I plan on driving it till it dies. If I were you, I would try some head gasket sealant, and drive it till it dies.
That doesn’t sound bad at all. A head gasket job alone at a dealership is usually about a $4k job.
These older Subarus have so much charm though. You’re just not getting a manual AWD car like this these days. If you love the car, go for it. It sounds like you take good enough care of it that it’ll keep on going
Safety is the issue for me. I have a 2014 Subaru Crosstrek that I love. I went yesterday to check out a 2024 forester and the safety issues on it was amazing. My crosstrek has practically nothing but back up and it doesn’t beep. It nice to hold on to an older car to save money but where does the line get drawn on safety?
As long as the chassis is rust free, I’d keep that thing running until it falls apart if you actually enjoy the car.
I’ve dumped a lot more into even cheaper cars
Honestly, you just have to be real with yourself. Does it make you happy? I recently dropped a sum total of $8k of my own money and $5k of insurance money to improve my 02 WRX wagon. It drives great. It is nothing like having a new car. If I were to put together all the money spent getting me to this point, I could at least buy a car from 2016+ but I started and early on just decided to commit.
I'd say go ahead and do it. You love the car, it's reliable, and getting the head gaskets done now will extend the life of the car even more. While the "is it cheaper to fix or repair?" game may or may not work in your favor, the Forrester is a much more known quantity than another used car. Also, rust-free is hard to beat.
Since you're taking it to a Subaru specialty shop, so they may even be able to look for warning signs of other potential problems while they've got the heads off. You'll be left with a bigger decision then, but it'd be good to know what you're working with.
However, I may not be the right person to ask. I bought a used Outback XT (manual, of course) with a solid body and chassis (also no rust) but with a host of problems on the test drive (down on power, clutch rattle, transmission did not shift right) knowing I'd dump a bunch into it. She got a new clutch and block, and rebuilt heads, turbo, transmission, and differentials. So I've got a (mechanically) brand-new 2007 Outback and it's exactly what I want out of a car.
I have this car and I will put money into it until it’s totaled in a wreck or stolen. This car is so great for the mountain roads where I live. They don’t make them like this anymore.
I have a '07 Forester with 280k that I put 2k into it at 250k miles. Head gaskets, new clutch, throw out bearing, water pump, all the pulleys, belts and it is still an awesome rig.
No. My ‘00 Forester was one of the most favorite of cars I’ve ever owned and I’d absolutely love to get another. As a matter of fact I’m watching Toy Story 4 right now and we are all like, awwww….green car.
https://preview.redd.it/g1iw8we800ic1.jpeg?width=1936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6336034babbd5c21be646e62a1903ae1c0fedc5
I would say fix it, but I think that price is high. I've done many of those and it's not rocket science stuff, it's just nuts and bolts and honestly about 4-6 hours for a decent wrencher.
Junk yard engine all the way… when it blows you buy another for <$500
If you like the platform find a 01-02 with the big mirrors. It will have the winter package that includes the heated seats, heated mirrors, heated qtr window, moon roof, and heated wipers. If it’s automatic then use your pedal set from the first car and keep it around for parts. Find a sg forester Xt and swap that transmission over into the auto to match the 4.44fd and you will have a strong offroad manual with factory vlsd rear differential.
I’ve got around $10k in my eg33 swapped 99 forester. If you love them then keep them but do it smart. That $3.5k could buy you an entire new forester to build.
The only problem with manual trans you have to work to find another manual trans car. It is hard now.
In the fleet I have a 300 six f150 manual. Love it will do whatever it takes. Finding a truck in good shape with that power train is hard and expensive. Never parting ways I always want a manual full size truck.
The second another Dakota 2.5 four manual truck. It was almost free eight years ago when I bought it. Perfect beater truck with a workable bed and can loan it out to family and they won't beat up the ford.
If you are a manual trans guy do what you have to do.
no, this is normal. i did the same for my 2005 EJ wrx wagon (fully bolted and tuned)—everytime i spent $2k here, $3k there, it would end up going another 100,000 miles.
We put $8,000 into our 2014 Forester with 240k miles on it a couple of months ago because the transmission went out. We still have a few years before my truck is paid off, and having 2 car payments just wasn't in the cards. Even looking at used prices for Subarus in the same age range with similar mileage it wasn't that much difference in price, plus we know the exact background/history of our car. It hurt to spend that much at once, but it SHOULD last us a few more years (it's not our main vehicle for driving) with that fix. \*knocks on wood\*
Generally you pull the engine on Subarus to do head gaskets. If that’s how the shop you’re at is gonna do it, I’d ask for a quote on a new clutch while they’re in there. (The clutch will come out anyway when they remove the engine)It’ll add to the parts cost but then all your major shit is replaced and good for a long while.
If someone else was to hit your car and total it understand your not going to get what you put into it plus the value of the car. You will just end up with what the current market value of the car is. If your ok with that possibility and it's not going to ruin you then put the money into it
When deciding whether or not to repair an older car most people operate on the very mistaken thinking that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot when the value of the car isn't all that much, and that is very much the wrong way to think about it. From a financial standpoint you need to look at it from the standpoint of can you buy something better for the cost of the repair plus whatever you can sell the car for in its current state. When making that evaluation keep in mind that buying a different older used car comes with unknowns and uncertainty or as with your existing car you have a pretty good idea of what's wrong with it, all the little quirks and such. With new head gaskets done properly and new timing components, there's every reason to believe that that motor will be good for at least another hundred thousand miles if not more. That doesn't mean that it won't need other stuff but even fairly extensive expensive suspension work is likely to stay around 1 to 2K at most.
This is exactly the same logic I use. I have no idea where the whole "if the repairs cost more than the car is worth get a new one" logic came from. Like oh good instead of spending the money fixing this car I have and ending up with a nicely fixed car I'll spend the same amount I would have on repairs and buy another shitbox while selling the existing car for a very low price. I guess maybe it made sense in a different economic era.
If the car is rusty the new car might be a better option. Not everything is worth saving. Or cut losses with a unreliable German vehicle and get something Japanese. Time loss with unreliable vehicles does matter.
Rust and electrical issues are two good reasons to dump a car, but mechanical failures or issues like axles/brakes/driveline/engine on a clean chassis are usually worth fixing
Not many electronics to go wrong on these babies!
Like most vehicles of the era, pull whatever circuits are in it, replace the electrolytic capacitors before they leak and you will be much better off. Not sure exactly what circuit cards are on these, but it would be worth finding out and updating them for sure. Just did it on an old truck recently. Completely changed the way it runs.
Yeah that's true there's definitely a longer term reliability aspect to it too. Like if the car is gonna be a complete money pit moving forward then yeah might be a good idea to move on. I care a lot about having a trustworthy mechanic that can tell me if the car is gonna be a money pit for this exact reason.
since when is subaru a german manufacturer?
When did I say they were? Look at the post I was replying to. General automotive advice using stereotypically unreliable example.
Just a theory, but I bet it came from dealers and mechanics who sell used cars on the side. "Hey, the repairs will cost 3.5k (new motor on a relatively spotless car) but that's more than the car is worth. Buy this slightly newer car for 6k instead, and I'll deal with your old car for you" they take your car, fix it for the quoted 3.5k repairs, and sell it to the next chup for another 6k
This!!!! My main daily is a Prius with almost 400k and its cost me 1/4 what the yearly combined payments on the cheapest new one would be. Fix your old stuff, stop participating in consumerism, and keep stuff on the road.
The usual objection involves the cost of repairs when you don't have a warranty. That objection is objectively bullshit. Over time the cost of repairs will be less than the cost of car payments 99plus percent of the time.
For some reason taxi cab companies aren’t using a flat four and AWD system. They do love Toyota products— I wonder why…. Hybrid variants of the: Prius, RAV4, Sienna, and Camry are like the new Crown Victorias of “abuse me harder” and I keep going. That’s why taxi places love them
This is the way. New car new problems. It's why I keep my 97 wagons going. Sure I've spent well more than they're worth on parts and upgrades but I know what's wrong with them and they're cheap and easy to work on. Doing as much of the work as possible yourself helps cut the costs and makes you appreciate your machine more.
Yep. People will skip that big repair and then go buy another comparable older car... with someone else's problems. Horrible way of looking at things. My 2007 Matrix is starting to need some repairs, and I'm glad to do it, that car has *at least* another decade of hard daily driving on it, worst case scenario.
The value of the car is worthy of consideration if something were to happen to it necessitating its replacement like an accident. You go put $3500 into a $3500 car, one week later it gets totaled, assuming you have full coverage insurance you’re only going to get $3500, and the other $3500 was thrown in the garbage. If you didn’t have full coverage, now you’re out $7k.
Well get full coverage then. So glad I live somewhere where only liability isn't an option. Our body shop would have so many broke customers trying to nickel and dime repairs.
Exactly. I put 1.5k into my wife’s 200k mile car this summer. The car is only worth 2k. But I know the engine has plenty of life left in it, and the transmission seems strong and can be replaced with a used unit pretty cheaply if needed. New control arms and brakes and her car has been way more reliable than your average 3-4k used car.
I see a lot of people including breaks when talking about repairs, and they're not really repairs they are consumable just like tires.
Eh this was more than just a normal break job. I replaced the lines and one of the ABS connections as well.
That’s a phenomenally good price for head gaskets , timing belt service and clutch. If you have the money I would do it, the car will be good for another 100k aside from some more wheel bearings possibly. Also you may want to start taking some ownership of some maintenance items. Those early foresters are actually built on Impreza chassis (98-01 Impreza is identical, even the dash is the same). and share nearly all components with Impreza . You can be doing brake jobs yourself from numerous videos that exist online for over a decade.
It's a good price but not really an exceptionally great one. If you look at the cost of those three things done separately it seems really good but that's because it's a lot of the same labor. Doing a clutch when the engine is already out is really the cost of the parts and maybe an extra half hour. Same for timing when the heads are coming off for the gaskets anyway.
This is a great point. The shop will do pretty well on that rate But you (vehicle owner) are getting a lot of work done for that price. I’d expect to spend 2/3 of that alone just on head gasket work.
Why would you pull the entire engine to replace the head gaskets, timing stuff and water pump? I didn’t. Unfortunately, shortly after doing all the work, it started gobbling oil. That wasn’t so bad, but when the transaxle started howling, we sent it down the road
You don't have to, but if you have pulled engines before and are comfortable with everything needs to be disconnected and have a hoist, the extra time in pulling the engine is made up for with ease and speed in doing the gaskets.
I briefly considered doing it at work, but only one lift, and one engine stand.
No it's not. Parts for the whole thing with using the proper, best, OEM or OEM replacement parts is $600 when you account for fluids. That's OEM MLS gaskets, Exedy Clutch, Aisin timing kit, OEM water pump because the ones in the kits are trash, OEM rear main seal. Can be done in 8 hours without a lift.
Labor my man. Labor. If the guy could DIY he wouldn’t have made the post. Shops are for profit businesses not charity orgs.
I do it for money. People pay me to do it. I use the best parts. $3,500 is way too much.
Where you at? We'll send him to you!
In this scenario, the real question is "can I buy a better more reliable car than this WILL BE for $3500 or less? That answer is likely no in this market. Plus the devil you know is always better than jumping into another $3500 car they you know nothing about.
Only thing I’d change with this thinking is that to compare apples to apples, you’d want to look at a price point of cars you could get for $3500 + whatever you can get out of the forester in its current state. But personally, even if that’s another $3500 (doubtful!) I’d probably still pick the devil I know. Now, if the plan was to upgrade to a *new* car in the medium/long term anyway, this might be a time to cut one’s losses. Obviously the math is almost always better to keep what you have and fix it vs taking on payments, but it’s a little silly to pretend that you’re not losing something driving a 23+yo car vs something newer. Safety, comfort, amenities, piece of mind from reliability.
I must agree. This is the proper thought process when driving cheaper cars. And op says it’s rust free so I’ll support it. I’m all about the devil you know with cars.
No you’re not crazy. You should get years more out of it. If you only get another year out of it that’s still only $300 a month to drive if, much less than a new car payment. I regularly see Subarus that age with 300k miles on it. At some point it might need a power steering pump. Maybe an alternator. And wheel bearings. But again if you just keep fixing it you can drive it until it throws a rod.
Just do it. Payments suck
I tend to prefer the older cars. Especially old subaru. I would personally very much like to fix the old, and keep it going. Whenever I've done this in the past with older cars... There's something else right around the corner. That's OK, and probably the better financial decision. Depends on how reliable you need your car to be. And how well you handle the unknown, and surprise stress/repair bills. I liked my 09 outback more than my 23 outback. But the 23 outback isn't always in the shop, canceling road trips, making it hard to get to work.... Etc... Just one those things. 3.5k sounds expensive for engine work. Sti swap it 🤤
I'd put the money into it, without question if it gave me a good reliable, inexpensive runner.
Do it! I have a nearly identical 1999 and will keep it until it will go no more. As others have said, it'll need other stuff, too, but it's a 2001 Forester with a stick. Such a great car to drive.
The cheapest car is the car you already own.
It’s going to basically be brand new after that and run for another 150k. It’s way cheaper than buying a new car at the very least
Drive till it dies and then get a new or newer one.
My thoughts on it are do it!! 3500 would only get you basically what you have! You know what you got already so it’s up to you on how much you like the car and whatever else is wrong with it!!
I traded my '02 Forrester in,m back in '13 for a new Crosstek. While I love the new car, I still miss the old Forrester.
Nope. I put $3K into a vehicle with 250K miles and still going strong at 280K miles It all depends on so many things. Is the body good? What’s the interest rate on a new vehicle?. How many miles do you drive a year? What other issues does it have? Have you fixed? Etc. I actually bought my current daily driver with 225000 miles on it for $3200. 12 years later it’s still my daily just not a ton of miles anymore. It’s been a great vehicle and I’m happy I bought it, from a guy at work with all the records. Single owner, etc. Looking at your photo and the fact it’s rust free etc. I’d do it. 🤷🏻♀️
Do it, it’ll outlive any modern car
If it’s truly rust free especially underneath then I say fix it and keep on driving it. New and used cars are stupid these days.
Im at least 20k deep in my 2002 Wrx 260k on the body but fresh jdm motor. Ive already fixed all the problems it feels like 🤣
Lol I put 35k into my 2004 wrx I think you're good bro
Fuck it. Put 10k into it
If you plan on holding onto the car for a long time. It's not crazy, as long as structurally the car is good and it doesn't need any other crazy maintenance. Ask your service advisor/mechanic if the car needs anything else. Again that's given you trust their opinion as well.. Just had a customer with his 2011 Forester, manual trans hit 400k+ miles. It all comes down to deep pockets and does it make sense.
If you know your car well enough and the maintenance on it, then no, you're not crazy. Me I put 4k on a 2003 rusted forester. Solid ass car, but I needed something to hop me along until I could afford a new one. I think to answer your question do you think it will last you another 50-60k? If yes then you're good. The car market is insanely expensive right now. I'll pay 4.5k on interest on my new subaru. You're winning
I have an Outback 1 year older than yours and it has 148k on it. Same thing with the gaskets has happened and had been in limbo between selling it as is, or getting the repairs. Was quoted around what you said and ended up just doing the job myself. It’s really not the craziest process if you’re not intimidated with it and getting the engine out and finding a reliable machine shop isn’t that tough of a process. It’s just about having the time and the resources. I basically ended up feeling like, if I’m owning something this old to begin with, I may as well figure out what’s going on with it, and have an understanding with my vehicle. Not the first and won’t be the last thing that’ll happen to it.
I have a 99, right now with about 275,000 miles. I've probably put 6 grand into repairs and another 2.5 into maintenance in the past 5 years I've owned it, works out to about 140$ a month, lets say my car is worth between to and three and I take 40ish dollars off per month or about 100$ a month in costs before dirt cheap insurance and registration. There is no car I could buy for that amount of money that would be any more reliable than my current forester. That being said I am replacing mine in the near future with a newer and lower mileage one I am getting a good deal on, I am finally starting to have transmission issues and I use the car for long (1500+ mile) road trips on a regular basis, the last of which I was left stranded in the middle of nowhere Oregon, near a tiny place called Burns Jct. It's more that there is something wrong on a regular basis than the cost which is finally driving me out of it. At that mileage, in that condition, if it isn't regularly broken I don't see any reason not to spend the money and repair it. As they say, the devil you know if better than the devil you don't.
Yes
Where I’m from, 3.5K is a good price for the work being done. If you love the car and love driving it then you should consider getting the work done. Especially if it’s rust free. If you drive it for another 10 years (with no car payment!) then you’ve come out ahead. Life is short, do what makes you happy. Just my 2c.
I put $4k into "refreshing" my 99 outback about 6 years ago - along with the timing belt that was due at the time, I had every rubber part (every belt, every boot, etc.) replaced, all the fluids (diffs, transmission (MT), cooling, oil, etc.) replaced along with a few electrical quirks being addressed. I figured that paying that amount would help me get another 100k miles out of a car that I love driving and was FAR cheaper than buying a new car. Luckily, I live in an area where rust isn't an issue to speak of, so maintenance is really just about the consumables - brakes, struts, tires, batteries, wiper blades, fluids, etc.
In this market, as long as the rest of the car is tidy, it's worth it. $3500 is a good deal for what you said they quoted but I'll give you some helpful advice having owned a couple of those and had work done and did some myself. Make sure they use the multilayer metal head gaskets from Suabru, nothing else. Make sure they use the OEM water pump and metal water pump gasket. Personally I did the OEM Subaru timing belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, gaskets...everything Subaru OEM. No parts store stuff. No regrets here. Zero issues.
Of course
*Looks over at my 2012 Volvo with 196k miles that I just dumpped 3k into* Nope. Think you are good my friend. 👍
You aren't crazy if you drive it long enough to pay for itself or unless you feel crazy. You do you. I have made worse decisions with my Forester.
You're basically doing every difficult maintenance job in 1 go, which for $3500 is a pretty good deal compared with doing them as separate jobs. Knowing that you wont have to worry about the timing belt, rear main leaks, rocker cover leaks, or head gaskets for the foreseeable future makes this pretty much a no brainer for me. The only thing I would add is to replace the thermostat while you're getting it done. Make sure you go with an OEM part for it and the water pump, as aftermarket ones are (almost always) crap.
I’ve put that much into my 2000 at least. But having owned it for 8 years I know it like the back of my hand-know what’s good and what’s going to need replaced soon (which isn’t much). It’s as simple as an OBD-II car can be, is stick shift when those are getting hard to find, and has very little rust. Those 3 things mean far more to me than resale value, and buying another used car is just uncovering a whole new list of problems to fix. So yeah, keep it.
Good looking car! I’ve got the same color combo. https://preview.redd.it/oimzxmgu9whc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff1f23f98cfe5a65823b5344c1e6a72154b97d13
98 forester (manual) with 235k miles checking in for the comments
A HG job will normally cost about $2400. Manifold gaskets should be parts only as well as timing belt, water pump, thermostat, timing belt tensioners and pulleys because they all come off when doing a HG job. Replacing the clutch for another $1k isn't bad so the quote is fairly reasonable. Just make sure the mechanic replaces all seals and gaskets that are normally accessible when doing a HG job. [FelPro sells a full gasket set](https://www.drivparts.com/part-details.html?brand_code=BCWV&part_number=HS%2026170%20PT-1&part_name=Head%20Set). Tell him to use this. Your car should easily go another 100K or 150k with the realization that suspension and steering parts wear out and that replacing them at this age is part of owning a car but far cheaper than buying a new $30K+ car.
Cars over 20 years old and over 200K miles I fall back and say it is best to buy newer less that 5 years old with cash. The reason is reliability going forward, and this depends on how much fixing you have already done on the car before putting in another $3500. At a certain point, you could be putting in $1,000 every 3 months on fixing components. If you haven't I would spend a $150 and get a detailed inspection on the car and have the mechanic mention what things will likely need to be replaced in the next 2 years and list those things in order of importance for safety to get a full picture of what you are looking at fixing. From there you can make a better decision.
[удалено]
"Can I buy a more reliable car for $3500?" is not realistic in the scheme of things. Almost all used cars unless they are less than 4 years old will have some maintenance work that needs to be fixed that will likely cost $2000+ in repairs to get the car in good working order. This needs to be added into the equation. The idea of 20 years is part availability. Most cars after 20 years you cannot get OEM parts so you start fixing cars with junkyard parts the reliability goes down so you start throwing good money after bad.
I'd rather have a 2001 Forester than a 2011 or 2021.
I get it.
My target price for a car is $.10/mi for cost of ownership. Look at all the car you've owned and you'll that's a pretty good number for a good used car. So i'd be asking if i can get another 35,000 happy trouble free miles from the Fozzi and the answer is a pretty likely "YES". You should go for it. My brothers 2007 Fozzi has 270,000 miles and 12 trips from New England to FL pulling a way overloaded trailer.
It's a good price for the work, but you should limp it along and save. You can get a two generations newer forester, likea 2010-2012, for ~7k without looking too hard (unless you can tell me that most of the typical failure points have been fixed recently). Age and use are equally detrimental to a car and 2001 is really getting on in years. The price for the repair is half of a much newer model. (I say this as someone who likes keeping cars for the long haul)
To most ya your crazy, fortunately you can do what ever the F you want with your money. If I had a forester, manual Tran’s and a turbo I would put 3.5k into it unfortunately I can’t find one!!!!! Everyone has a preference dude.
Your payment on this forester is now $291.66 a month for the next 12 months. This will follow you around, always appearing in your rear view mirror, for 40 months, to see who ends up ahead. Winning with the Corolla or Nissan Versa lease seemed like cheating. https://preview.redd.it/0p0byvcuhthc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eea93fbdac7459e129fcc102aa3d5872941b1b2c
That price is insane. I do that job for 1k + parts which is about $500, $600 with fluids. Find out what parts he is using. Needs to be OEM STI MLS Headgaskets, OEM waterpump, OEM thermostat, Aisin or Gates Timing belt kit and an Exedy OEM Clutch. If the person doesn't know Subarus, don't have him do the job.
Sure you are
Absolutely not. It's crazy to run a car into the ground and buy a new one every 5 years.
What kind of cat?🐱 🤔
What kind of warranty is being offered? Also, I'd have one request-- an honest overall assessment once it's apart. How warped are the heads? How clean are the internals? There's doing the head gaskets, and then there's doing them so they're good for another 100k+. You don't want to be dealing with this again in 20k miles. I see why some people will throw in a used engine from the boneyard instead.
I have 2006 Prius as well as a subie. I've dumped 4.5k on a new hybrid battery(and other things) , and then another 1.3k on something else that broke.. I got the car cheap as hell. Low miles and good maintenance record. For me the ~8k I've spent total on the car has been worth it because it's likely to run for a really really long time now. I don't care about having a NEW car. I just want one that runs. Now if I get another major repair bill soon. I'll likely ditch the car and accept my losses. I'm gambling the repairs will get me another 3-5 years at least out of it.
askfor 20% discount and send it.
I spent like 5k+ fixing up a 04 legacy with 250k on it. They put a motor with 140k in it, and did all the gaskets. And I did a bunch of other suspension and brake parts. Plus battery coil and plugs and stuff. Should get me at least another 50k or more out of it
How much rust does it have? Minimal rust? Do it. Rusted out frame or strut towers? Don't bother.
My 2006 H6 Outback blow head gasket, so I replaced the motor and sold it. Got $500 out of it, if not would have been tow costs. I think of it as keep another one on the road for someone to enjoy :) Great memories in the old Roxy Wagon!
I’m in a very similar situation, I have an 02 forester that I bought with 260k for about $2000. It has a leaking head gasket, but it looks like the previous owner put head gasket sealant. I’ve been driving it for about a year and a half and just hit 275k. All I’ve done is change the spark plugs and I plan on driving it till it dies. If I were you, I would try some head gasket sealant, and drive it till it dies.
That’s a solid price for the repair work and you know the car’s history. Better the devil you know…
That doesn’t sound bad at all. A head gasket job alone at a dealership is usually about a $4k job. These older Subarus have so much charm though. You’re just not getting a manual AWD car like this these days. If you love the car, go for it. It sounds like you take good enough care of it that it’ll keep on going
I have a manual 2000 Forester with 200K. Same color as yours too. I'd be fine putting $3500 into it for the repairs you mention.
Safety is the issue for me. I have a 2014 Subaru Crosstrek that I love. I went yesterday to check out a 2024 forester and the safety issues on it was amazing. My crosstrek has practically nothing but back up and it doesn’t beep. It nice to hold on to an older car to save money but where does the line get drawn on safety?
As long as the chassis is rust free, I’d keep that thing running until it falls apart if you actually enjoy the car. I’ve dumped a lot more into even cheaper cars
Still cheaper than spending 30k on a new one
I understand going for it. But I would protect it with some sort of security. Those get stolen a lot where I live. Protect your investment.
Honestly, you just have to be real with yourself. Does it make you happy? I recently dropped a sum total of $8k of my own money and $5k of insurance money to improve my 02 WRX wagon. It drives great. It is nothing like having a new car. If I were to put together all the money spent getting me to this point, I could at least buy a car from 2016+ but I started and early on just decided to commit.
I'd say go ahead and do it. You love the car, it's reliable, and getting the head gaskets done now will extend the life of the car even more. While the "is it cheaper to fix or repair?" game may or may not work in your favor, the Forrester is a much more known quantity than another used car. Also, rust-free is hard to beat. Since you're taking it to a Subaru specialty shop, so they may even be able to look for warning signs of other potential problems while they've got the heads off. You'll be left with a bigger decision then, but it'd be good to know what you're working with. However, I may not be the right person to ask. I bought a used Outback XT (manual, of course) with a solid body and chassis (also no rust) but with a host of problems on the test drive (down on power, clutch rattle, transmission did not shift right) knowing I'd dump a bunch into it. She got a new clutch and block, and rebuilt heads, turbo, transmission, and differentials. So I've got a (mechanically) brand-new 2007 Outback and it's exactly what I want out of a car.
I have this car and I will put money into it until it’s totaled in a wreck or stolen. This car is so great for the mountain roads where I live. They don’t make them like this anymore.
I have a '07 Forester with 280k that I put 2k into it at 250k miles. Head gaskets, new clutch, throw out bearing, water pump, all the pulleys, belts and it is still an awesome rig.
No. My ‘00 Forester was one of the most favorite of cars I’ve ever owned and I’d absolutely love to get another. As a matter of fact I’m watching Toy Story 4 right now and we are all like, awwww….green car. https://preview.redd.it/g1iw8we800ic1.jpeg?width=1936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6336034babbd5c21be646e62a1903ae1c0fedc5
Nope! I fully back it as I have put tons Into my forester as well. It’s a labor of love for these cars. Now if it was a Honda I’d say screw it 😂
I would say fix it, but I think that price is high. I've done many of those and it's not rocket science stuff, it's just nuts and bolts and honestly about 4-6 hours for a decent wrencher.
Junk yard engine all the way… when it blows you buy another for <$500 If you like the platform find a 01-02 with the big mirrors. It will have the winter package that includes the heated seats, heated mirrors, heated qtr window, moon roof, and heated wipers. If it’s automatic then use your pedal set from the first car and keep it around for parts. Find a sg forester Xt and swap that transmission over into the auto to match the 4.44fd and you will have a strong offroad manual with factory vlsd rear differential. I’ve got around $10k in my eg33 swapped 99 forester. If you love them then keep them but do it smart. That $3.5k could buy you an entire new forester to build.
If you can reasonably believe that the car will run for another two years, why not? New car depreciation is more than that over two years.
The only problem with manual trans you have to work to find another manual trans car. It is hard now. In the fleet I have a 300 six f150 manual. Love it will do whatever it takes. Finding a truck in good shape with that power train is hard and expensive. Never parting ways I always want a manual full size truck. The second another Dakota 2.5 four manual truck. It was almost free eight years ago when I bought it. Perfect beater truck with a workable bed and can loan it out to family and they won't beat up the ford. If you are a manual trans guy do what you have to do.
no, this is normal. i did the same for my 2005 EJ wrx wagon (fully bolted and tuned)—everytime i spent $2k here, $3k there, it would end up going another 100,000 miles.
Just paid that to have two cats replaced in cali :/ in a 2002 chevrolet blazer xtreme with 60k miles
You can never say for sure but $3500 isn’t bad if the car lasts you another year or more.
We put $8,000 into our 2014 Forester with 240k miles on it a couple of months ago because the transmission went out. We still have a few years before my truck is paid off, and having 2 car payments just wasn't in the cards. Even looking at used prices for Subarus in the same age range with similar mileage it wasn't that much difference in price, plus we know the exact background/history of our car. It hurt to spend that much at once, but it SHOULD last us a few more years (it's not our main vehicle for driving) with that fix. \*knocks on wood\*
Is it worth it to you? If yes, then you're not crazy. Enjoy what you want and do what you want!
I’d do some additional shop estimates to see who else is out there. Might also find someone on Nextdoor that could do it for even less.
Generally you pull the engine on Subarus to do head gaskets. If that’s how the shop you’re at is gonna do it, I’d ask for a quote on a new clutch while they’re in there. (The clutch will come out anyway when they remove the engine)It’ll add to the parts cost but then all your major shit is replaced and good for a long while.
That’s very fair for all that work. $3500 doesn’t get you far for a new car either. At this age, I’d prepare for that too
If someone else was to hit your car and total it understand your not going to get what you put into it plus the value of the car. You will just end up with what the current market value of the car is. If your ok with that possibility and it's not going to ruin you then put the money into it
No rust? Not dumb. The MLS gaskets and a new clutch are going to give you another 100k.
If after you put 3.5k can you get the same level of car? If not then you did the right thing. That is cheaper than buying a new car