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I stayed with my very first boyfriend for 6 years and I told people that when we were done (he ended it) that I felt like he had spent 6 years cheating on me. The first time I caught him texting a random girl things that I didn't find very appropriate, he swore up and down he'd never do it again.
The next time, I caught him texting a childhood friend of mine. They swore they were just friends, and I still don't talk to her to this day (or him if that matters).
The time after that, my best friend texted me screenshots of their conversation where he was asking her about what she was wearing.
The time-
It doesn't matter. I hid it all and I stood by him while he disrespected me again and again and again and for what? For him to leave me? I was very young and he was the first boy who ever asked me out.
My 2nd boyfriend and I were together for 2 years before I found him texting a mutual friend of ours. I left him that night after sending the screenshots to her husband and then tagging him and her on a Facebook post with their snapchats. It happened on New Years Eve, he was drunk, and I checked his phone for the first time in our entire relationship. I told everyone on Facebook to wish "The new couple a happy new year" and then took my cats, some prized possessions (I assumed he'd be mad when he woke up, he was, he punched a hole in our apartment wall) and went to move in with my parents.
This sucks, but learn from it, and never give them the time of day again. I haven't spoken to either of my exes and I won't ever willingly engage with them again, but I understand the struggle to not want to check in to see how they're doing. My life is amazing without them, but trauma bonding is very powerful. I just remind myself each and everyday about why I left.
Well said. Biggest mistake of my life was taking him back after he cheated. I have never met someone who lied so much about everything and anything. He would write in his notes about how much he doesn’t like me and doesn’t care about me and doesn’t want to do anything for me. For years I was blindsided while he told me he wanted me and wanted to be with me when really he secretly hated me. I still remember all his notes about how he wanted to do so much for AP and how he didn’t want to do anything for me. He would laugh and joke to himself about how badly he treated me in his notes.
I took him back and what does he say to me when I found out he was cheating again “why did you stay” and then laughs at me in my face immediately after. He was psycho. Never met someone so intentional with trying to hurt me on purpose. When a girl he was cheating on me with cheats on him he sent her paragraphs everyday telling her how much he loves her misses her all the things he wanted to do for her all the places he wanted to take her to. Everyday paragraphs begging and apologizing. When I left him what I got was threatened if I don’t talk to him he will do this or he will do that. That’s the difference in how much he hated me and wanted me to be miserable. Every holiday he didn’t get me anything. When he asked for me back he agreed to make up the old holidays he missed AND never miss a holiday again. Did he ever make up old holidays and get me stuff? No. And of course in his last chance he had to miss Christmas and get me nothing. That was his last chance and he blew it and didn’t care.
When I found out he cheated again after taking him back I was devastated. Literally 5 mins after finding out he was cheating with 40+ women he gets mad at me for crying and told me to get over it. I realized he never ever did anything special. Called a bunch of random girls princess and baby girl that were his sex workers he had to pay for to talk to him but he was delusional and thought they were his girlfriends. Then he came back and tried to call me that too. What a sick weirdo. He never ever once told me the full truth. And I will never know it all because he was to weak and couldn’t be honest even in the end. Seeing how good he treated everyone he cheated on me with showed me all I needed to know. He hates my guts and wanted me to suffer these past years.
When I knew he was cheating with a girl he called his friend while she would get naked on the phone for money for him and he would always send her money. He took her out on one date and spent like $800 on her on the first date. Never have and never would ever do that for me. He was backstabbing, calculated, and cruel. He would make fun of me with the girls he cheated on me with. That’s how much he hated me. These are the type of people he cheats with, people just like him who cheat and think it’s okay. He will never change. I’m sure he’s happy now with all the fake friends he buys their attention with, all the girlfriends, all the sex workers he pays for. And I’m sure all those women were worth losing me over.
Do not trust a liar. They will boldface lie to your face, cheat, and have no remorse. No care in the world. Nothing.
This is the thing that everyone needs to understand. You will not be the exception to rule by staying or forgiving. You are not the 1 in ten thousand. They will get better at hiding. They will gaslight you and blame you for not healing fast enough.
> and blame you for not healing fast enough
Ain’t that the bleeping truth. They need things to go back to status quo ASAP so that they can get right back to taking advantage of your trust and goodness. If you can’t do this you will begin to see the resentment, then the rage.
This post is exactly why i believe in once a cheater always a cheater. They never change, they just get better at hiding it. Once you go back with a cheater they you gave them the greenlight that they can do it again behind ur back and ur going to accept it. No matter how long u continue the relationship, its goinf to happen again. I rather live with someone who i can trust then without someone who i have to keep my eye open when i sleep. If i can maintain my loyalty and integrity and respect my partner, why can the other person too? They exist its just us we have to find that person who is out there
Thanks for posting this OP. Too many of us learn the same way you did. Let’s hope we can save some poor souls the same angst. Once they give themselves permission to explore beyond the relationship it’s a lifelong deviation regardless of what they profess.
There's a thing that I cannot figure out for sure but I do have my theories that are very unpopular, but does anyone else wonder why narcism, the dark triad, and cluster B is not taught as a part of some class along the lines of healthy relationship strategies before a person graduates highschool? Blows my mind. Seems like there would be a lot less depression going on.
I don't think it necessarily needs to be experienced to be aware I think we can spread the awareness to younger people sooner and they can at least recognize it before they experience too much of it there are plenty of signs and some basic patterns that are not hard to describe or identify It's really just a relationship strategy that is void of the ability to take another's interest in well-beings as their own as opposed to only doing things if they get something out of it without regard to whoever there in a relationship with
And perhaps we can minimize it with the awareness by convincing people especially younger people to recognize their narcissistic behavior. A few simple decisions going from a selfish act to a selfless act can have a pretty lengthy effect. Incremental steps.
I'm struggling trying to come to terms with this now. My wife and I just crossed our 23 year anniversary together in January. We are high school sweethearts. I was 16 she was 15 and we promised each other if we're in this for the long haul to never break the other's heart and cheat. I found out on OCT 7th she was having an affair. I apparently caught it just as it got physical.
Fall of 2022, she asked me about having him plow for us as we were looking for a plow person. She did mention to me that she had a crush on him in highschool but "I don't need to worry about him because he is married She is married to me etc..." I said no it didn't make me comfortable and she "understood" why.
She did work for the guy and his wife without telling me around Mother's day last year. She likes to do elaborate makeup and post on Facebook and he was all over her page saying things like "beautiful! Stunning!". I'm not on Facebook so I saw none of these comments from him, and obviously, she didn't tell me. They spoke online for a few months.
In August I found out my mother has Leukemia and two aneurysms and could literally drop dead at any moment. I cried in my wife's arms after getting off the phone with my mother, but she apparently decided to escalate her affair after that. I had been having suspicions, tried snooping in her phone but got caught a couple times so I felt defeated and let it go for a couple months.
Then, on OCT 7th, we were putting our son, 3yo, down for bed. I usually read him a book, kiss and say goodnight, then my wife will sing to him while I'm out of the room. As I come out I saw her phone charging on the table and something in my head said "LOOK! Right now!". As I open her phone I see a 😘 from some unknown company name in Facebook Messenger. I click on the company and sure enough High school crush pops up. She hadn't responded so I didn't want to make any assumptions. Maybe she will reject him. My wife is very beautiful and it's certainly not the first time a man has made a move on her.
Our typical routine after we put our son down is to go into the basement and enjoy some cannabis with each other. My mind is racing and it's showing in my body language. "Is everything ok?" She asks. "Well, I should just come right out and say it why is _______ sending you kissy emojis?" Her face went blank, and right there I knew. "Because he does" she said. "What's going on between you two?" I said. "Nothing, we're just talking" she replied. "Unlock your phone , I want to see all correspondence between you two". As she opened the phone I could tell she was pressing a bunch of shit and I said "NO DELETING SHIT!" And grabbed her phone from her. On the way down together to smoke in the basement she replied back to the guy a 😘 and said "GTFO here!" He replied "Fucking lingerer man🤣🤣🤣. Did I leave that auger with that drill in your truck?" "You two fucking met?! " I said. "We just kissed" she said. And I blew up from there.
She continued lying to me after Dday. I asked if they French kissed, she said no. Then later admitted he did stick his tongue in her mouth. Never showed me any conversations they had together. She had a limb saw of his she told me that another client of hers gave her, but turns out to be his. Contacts him on Thanksgiving about returning it without letting me know. Claims she "unloaded" on him calling him an online predator and she would cut him open and watch him bleed if she saw him in public, but wouldn't let me read the texts. She apparently told him she loved him which she didn't disclose to me until I asked. Downplayed the affair, did a little blame shifting. More gaslighting and narcissistic abuse even after.
It's so hard to go because I don't want to put my 3 yo through the hell of divorce. But I'm getting to my wits end with this woman. She's absolutely beautiful, the sex is still amazing after 23 years. But it seems that's the only positive in the relationship right now. I don't see her the same, and suspect I never will. I can't trust her, she obviously doesn't respect me, she is verbally abusive and has been physically abusive throwing things at me. She was diagnosed with BPD last year and once I realized that and started reading about it, light bulbs went off and everything started making sense. Then when I started not tolerating her abusive behavior, this was how I was repaid.
I helped this woman get everything she wanted in life. A house, her own business, a child, her dream car, her dream truck. I'm aware that I am "too nice" and enabled her behavior for far too long and that's the role I played in the relationship which I take responsibility. It's still no excuse to be cheated on though. As terrible as boundaries as I am, That was one I set early in the relationship. It's so hard to move on with a kid, house now.
I feel so stuck and powerless. This has really fucked with my head and been the worst pain I've ever experienced, and I've seen a lot of loss in my life. I know many say the grass isn't always greener on the other side but I'm not sure how much longer I can deal with this.
You will get through this and you are right. Only if you feel okay, for research purposes could you please share what does he look like? My friend and I are working on physical aspects of a cheater and how people give certain people treat them.
I respectfully disagree. I cheated at 19. Never cheated through the whole of my marriage after, even after the first Dday. I did get cheated on twice and decided on divorce the last time. I'm still waiting on the final call by the judge before I start looking to date again even tho it's been over a year.
People who do none of the work required will cheat again.
there is a difference between cheating once because you are unhappy and the relationship is dying and you are looking for a reason to leave. Cause its not like you are going to beg the other person to stay, nor will you deny what you did.Its not a valid reason to EVER cheat but that happens. But serial cheaters?
Who will deny everything? gaslight and manipulate you? lovebomb you when you find out. Who you found out cheated on every ex they have ever been with. Cheated on you constantly
Those are sick people who destroy your mental health for fun. They are the ones we tend to give 100 chances to because of how manipulating they are. And they do not change.
Yes, and staying in a relationship where cheating has occurred is a whole different thing than cheating once, breaking up and moving on with your life. Once someone knows they can get away with disrespecting you, they don’t have much reason to change. I get that everyone makes mistakes and bad choices but cheating is a deliberate choice that could be avoided by just breaking up.
That’s a great point btw. I cheated in my first marriage 25+ yrs ago and never even considered it during my 2nd marriage. But that said, I also left the first marriage. Never once considered asking him to have me back bc I understood I had ruined the relationship forever. I ruined it, I had to live with the consequences. Did I learn from it? Absolutely.
Not gonna lie, this is what I fear now. That I was just my ex wife’s Guinea pig and I’m just collateral damage on her way thru life. I’m glad you learned and became a better person, and I want her to as well but it’s painful thinking she will be everything I always wanted from her but for her next man.
Everyone can cheat. Everyone will be put in situations where they have the temptation. If you think that doing the work means you’ll never cheat shows you didn’t do all the work. You’ve already shown in the right state of mind and the right circumstances you will cheat. Always remember that.
Which is why you not only actively avoid those, you deliberately sure up your moral foundation.
What you describe is the same argument for 'everyone can kill', 'everyone can be a nazi' etc. You have several people who took the unalive route instead.
Do the work. There's only two situations I can think of where it's no longer a choice to cheat and it's highly likely that being unalive is a better alternative and the majority will never be put in those situations.
Do the work.
Interesting you think because you picked the wrong partner everyone who cheats is exactly the same as your cheater and apparently all cheating is the same as well.
Have you even attempted to study infidelity and relationships? Your gut logic is not logic at all.
A one time, first time cheater is likely to cheat again by a factor of 3.4 times, but that is not the same, as will always cheat.
We all who have been in your shoes understand your pain, but as well know that once a cheater, always a cheater is not true for every cheater and type of cheating.
https://www.couplestherapyinc.com/is-once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-true/#:~:text=Once%20a%20cheater%2C%20always%20a,affair%20is%20also%20a%20factor.
'Once a cheater, always a cheater? Well, not always but the risk does rise, according to some recent research.
Prior infidelity can triple the chance of cheating on a current partner. But it turns out that whether you've had a partner who's had an affair is also a factor. It normalizes infidelity, turns out. If it happened to you, it must be common, the thinking goes.
Historically, the research found that men consistently engaged in more affairs than women. Not according to research. Here cohabitating women are just as likely to step out. They were 3.4 times more likely to cheat long-term.
The survey of 484 cohabiting adults asked about their relationship history extending back five years. Participants were asked if they were having sex with someone else in their current or if they had in their previous relationship. It also asked about their knowledge of their partners.
Almost 45% of the study subjects reported cheating in their previous relationship. 44% in their current relationship. In addition, almost one-third said they knew their spouse had been unfaithful in the past.
The most well-established demographic finding is that men are more likely to commit infidelity than women. It wasn't the case in this research finding. Perhaps monogamy is less true of women prior to marriage...'
Keep reading.
While I admit that OP's anecdotal evidence, as well as everyone here's anecdotal evidence, aren't an effective method to establish that "once a cheater, always a cheater"
The truth remains that there are effective methods. And whoever tried them, knows that indeed, one a cheater always a cheater. No exception observed. It doesn't triple anything, it guarantees it. It's the facts that can be observed when you try to observe. It's impossible to observe anything else in good faith.
" you picked the wrong partner "
Nobody picks cheaters or narcissists. This type of victim blaming language should've stopped years ago but here we are. Not surprising it comes from someone who defends cheaters.
All self-reported surveys are garbage. People who cheat and lie will cheat and lie in a survey. If they told their life partner in their face that they never cheated, why wouldn't they lie in a survey?
As you observe and orient to your situation, in addition to psychological profile and temperament, perhaps you should factor in age because a LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) once told me in her professional opinion men did not begin to grow up until their mid-30’s…nevertheless, sympathy for your situation (you’re not responsible for your partner growing up and maturing) and be well…
His behavior is sociopathic. A 25yr old man sleeping with a woman who is 40 for a year whilst in a relationship for 6 years? that has nothing to do with "men growing up at 30". Most men dont do things like that because they can differntiate between what is right and wrong, like any normal person.
THIS!!!! I don't care if you're 19 or 39 right is right, an wrong is wrong and people know which is which, they choose to deny the guilty/this is wrong feelings and do what feels good to them, without thinking about the ramifications.
OP’s bf 100% knew what he was doing was wrong, he just didn’t care. There was never a punishment for him cheating in 2019,2020, and 2021. 3 years of cheating without losing your partner would lead any cheater to continue cheating…
What I’m writing is to evaluate “willing and able”…some are unwilling to grow up, some unable…the road to hell is paved with good intentions…it takes much work to overcome temptation and establish (or re-establish) good boundaries…yes, look at the direction the nose is pointing to see where they’ll end up…not every boundary is easy for everyone to keep…at the same time given every chance and time to amend one’s life, this relationship appears not working…time to move on…best wishes…
Consider these truisms: “once a thief, always a thief;”Once a liar, always a liar;” “Once a cheater, always a cheater;” those aphorisms only address one issue—not the total picture—nor the complete individual—that’s all…if you reduce all the values to one: infidelity cancels the relationship…so be it…true the best predictor for the future is the past behavior BUT individuals are free to choose…granted this individual has failed this relationship (and it can’t be saved) but going forward he still has to launch and thrive…so sorry for OP to have to make decisions going forward and clean up the messes…but the violator may choose to use the circumstances to better himself and make better choices/life…be well…
Bottom-line, he cheated on OP in this relationship but he is not compelled to cheat in his next relationship; and OP didn’t cheat on him but his next mate may…what clouds the picture is a long time relationship with an older woman…while life is not a linear time line, his behavior is generating momentum that he will find hard work to slow and extinguish his “helling around” because there are multiple causative factors here (many of which details are not teased out in OP’s statement of the issues/problem…there may be hidden issues as well (obviously)…age, gender, culture, ethnicity, education, class, etc. …we’ll see what the punishment is and how quickly he learns from experience and modifies his behavior appropriately…after all, it’s a civil case not criminal at this point…be well..,
To restate, if the problem is sexual infidelity (and unhappiness), then what will happen if that behavior is extinguished? To my mind all the parties will be faced with the fundamentals of the process of finding happiness in life, and meaning, and overcoming anxiety…I completely agree with the statement “less is more” keep it simple: stop “helling around” and use that energy for more creative problems-solving and moving forward…our society seems obsessed with sexuality(because it’s simple and sells) but the quest for peace and tranquility has been lost; and one more relationship has been destroyed by misdirection and mislabeling…thanks for listening and be well…
What she was saying is maturing is a process of setting goals, setting boundaries and working at it through time: childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, adulthood…ultimately death is the final stage of growth…be well…
First off I’m sorry for your pain. It sucks and I’ve been there. I will say this though, if someone admitted to having cheated in the past, I’d still consider dating them. Honestly. I don’t 100% believe the once always stigma. HOWEVER, if they cheat on me? No you’ll never even get a chance to explain before I shoo you out the door lol. And you’ll never get back in. I don’t punish for the past entirely (some pasts I’m not going to accept but not a hard and fast rule) but I do punish betrayal.
What folder can you still messages in? Is that on Facebook? It never occurred to me that somebody could still send me messages even if they were blocked. Now I’m curious.
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Only a very small percentage of cheaters stop and feel remorse. The majority don’t and their friends and family think it’s acceptable and we’re just supposed to take it. I’ve learned my lesson.
Im talking about serial cheaters though. The narcissistic monsters will never even have told you they cheated in the past as they believe they are perfect and they did nothing wrong. atleast he was truthful with you. But did he cheat on her once or did he cheat on her throughout the entire relationship? Therein lies the answer i guess...
I dont understand how guys do this? Is he super good looking and confident and rich and just lies to women to get them to bed? lives in a city with tons of single and open minded dtf women?
He is none of those things🤷♀️, not good looking, not rich, deeply insecure.
Not a lot of single women.
Small town
He portrays to be very confident and he is very very charming. Very manly. Goes hunting, drives a motorcycle, can fix any car.
But goodlooking and rich? the opposite.
Also one would say he is confident, but thats what people like them portray??? because a real confident person does not need anything that moves' attention to feel good about themselves.
He does lie to them. He lies about everything. He lies about things he owns, he lies about how he is planning to buy a big a$$ boat or the latest truck , when in reality he can barely afford rent or his current truck's installment. He lies about everything.
Once a few years ago, I heard him say to people where we were having a barebeque how "he bought my car for me."
An Audi. People were complimenting my car and he said he bought it.
A car i bought myself a few months before meeting him..
Those words he said has always stayed with me, because he didnt think I heard it. But in that moment I thought "WTF LOL" because he sounded so confident like he believed it himself. Like that was the God's honest truth that he was speaking.
Thats how he does it.
My jaw is in the floor. Thanks for sharing your experience. I just can’t believe there are people like that. I agree cheaters will never change. It’s in their dna to be selfish and mean.
I know how you feel. Some days are worse than others. Its like a drug addict having withdrawal symptoms. But Ive been No Contact 16 days today. And each passing day you wake up and feel a little bit better. Getting through the day is also an emotional rollercoaster. But im proud to say 16 days No Contact is probably the longest ive gone without letting him back into my life in 6 years
I am proud of myself
Just stick to No Contact is all I can say. No matter how effing hard it is. No matter how much you feel like you are dying and cannot take a second longer.
Think of yourself as a druggie. Think of how bad you are gonna feel when you reach out and have to start your NC over again.
Feeling like a druggie, 100% this. Sometimes it’s so hard, and it comes out of nowhere. I haven’t been good at no contact, but now it’s no contact for sure. I sent him the most disparaging (but true) email I could write. I basically blew up what was left of the relationship and of us on my way out. But it’s the only way. They will not miraculously become decent human beings all of sudden.
Congratulations on your 2 weeks of strength! I hope to be there soon!
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So sorry, but I agree with you
Same here.
I stayed with my very first boyfriend for 6 years and I told people that when we were done (he ended it) that I felt like he had spent 6 years cheating on me. The first time I caught him texting a random girl things that I didn't find very appropriate, he swore up and down he'd never do it again. The next time, I caught him texting a childhood friend of mine. They swore they were just friends, and I still don't talk to her to this day (or him if that matters). The time after that, my best friend texted me screenshots of their conversation where he was asking her about what she was wearing. The time- It doesn't matter. I hid it all and I stood by him while he disrespected me again and again and again and for what? For him to leave me? I was very young and he was the first boy who ever asked me out. My 2nd boyfriend and I were together for 2 years before I found him texting a mutual friend of ours. I left him that night after sending the screenshots to her husband and then tagging him and her on a Facebook post with their snapchats. It happened on New Years Eve, he was drunk, and I checked his phone for the first time in our entire relationship. I told everyone on Facebook to wish "The new couple a happy new year" and then took my cats, some prized possessions (I assumed he'd be mad when he woke up, he was, he punched a hole in our apartment wall) and went to move in with my parents. This sucks, but learn from it, and never give them the time of day again. I haven't spoken to either of my exes and I won't ever willingly engage with them again, but I understand the struggle to not want to check in to see how they're doing. My life is amazing without them, but trauma bonding is very powerful. I just remind myself each and everyday about why I left.
Good for you to recognize it and immediately take action.
I’m sorry, I can relate totally.
Well said. Biggest mistake of my life was taking him back after he cheated. I have never met someone who lied so much about everything and anything. He would write in his notes about how much he doesn’t like me and doesn’t care about me and doesn’t want to do anything for me. For years I was blindsided while he told me he wanted me and wanted to be with me when really he secretly hated me. I still remember all his notes about how he wanted to do so much for AP and how he didn’t want to do anything for me. He would laugh and joke to himself about how badly he treated me in his notes. I took him back and what does he say to me when I found out he was cheating again “why did you stay” and then laughs at me in my face immediately after. He was psycho. Never met someone so intentional with trying to hurt me on purpose. When a girl he was cheating on me with cheats on him he sent her paragraphs everyday telling her how much he loves her misses her all the things he wanted to do for her all the places he wanted to take her to. Everyday paragraphs begging and apologizing. When I left him what I got was threatened if I don’t talk to him he will do this or he will do that. That’s the difference in how much he hated me and wanted me to be miserable. Every holiday he didn’t get me anything. When he asked for me back he agreed to make up the old holidays he missed AND never miss a holiday again. Did he ever make up old holidays and get me stuff? No. And of course in his last chance he had to miss Christmas and get me nothing. That was his last chance and he blew it and didn’t care. When I found out he cheated again after taking him back I was devastated. Literally 5 mins after finding out he was cheating with 40+ women he gets mad at me for crying and told me to get over it. I realized he never ever did anything special. Called a bunch of random girls princess and baby girl that were his sex workers he had to pay for to talk to him but he was delusional and thought they were his girlfriends. Then he came back and tried to call me that too. What a sick weirdo. He never ever once told me the full truth. And I will never know it all because he was to weak and couldn’t be honest even in the end. Seeing how good he treated everyone he cheated on me with showed me all I needed to know. He hates my guts and wanted me to suffer these past years. When I knew he was cheating with a girl he called his friend while she would get naked on the phone for money for him and he would always send her money. He took her out on one date and spent like $800 on her on the first date. Never have and never would ever do that for me. He was backstabbing, calculated, and cruel. He would make fun of me with the girls he cheated on me with. That’s how much he hated me. These are the type of people he cheats with, people just like him who cheat and think it’s okay. He will never change. I’m sure he’s happy now with all the fake friends he buys their attention with, all the girlfriends, all the sex workers he pays for. And I’m sure all those women were worth losing me over. Do not trust a liar. They will boldface lie to your face, cheat, and have no remorse. No care in the world. Nothing.
Yeeep!
This is the thing that everyone needs to understand. You will not be the exception to rule by staying or forgiving. You are not the 1 in ten thousand. They will get better at hiding. They will gaslight you and blame you for not healing fast enough.
> and blame you for not healing fast enough Ain’t that the bleeping truth. They need things to go back to status quo ASAP so that they can get right back to taking advantage of your trust and goodness. If you can’t do this you will begin to see the resentment, then the rage.
This post is exactly why i believe in once a cheater always a cheater. They never change, they just get better at hiding it. Once you go back with a cheater they you gave them the greenlight that they can do it again behind ur back and ur going to accept it. No matter how long u continue the relationship, its goinf to happen again. I rather live with someone who i can trust then without someone who i have to keep my eye open when i sleep. If i can maintain my loyalty and integrity and respect my partner, why can the other person too? They exist its just us we have to find that person who is out there
Thanks for posting this OP. Too many of us learn the same way you did. Let’s hope we can save some poor souls the same angst. Once they give themselves permission to explore beyond the relationship it’s a lifelong deviation regardless of what they profess.
There's a thing that I cannot figure out for sure but I do have my theories that are very unpopular, but does anyone else wonder why narcism, the dark triad, and cluster B is not taught as a part of some class along the lines of healthy relationship strategies before a person graduates highschool? Blows my mind. Seems like there would be a lot less depression going on.
I feel like it’s something you have to experience and it cannot be taught
I don't think it necessarily needs to be experienced to be aware I think we can spread the awareness to younger people sooner and they can at least recognize it before they experience too much of it there are plenty of signs and some basic patterns that are not hard to describe or identify It's really just a relationship strategy that is void of the ability to take another's interest in well-beings as their own as opposed to only doing things if they get something out of it without regard to whoever there in a relationship with And perhaps we can minimize it with the awareness by convincing people especially younger people to recognize their narcissistic behavior. A few simple decisions going from a selfish act to a selfless act can have a pretty lengthy effect. Incremental steps.
I'm struggling trying to come to terms with this now. My wife and I just crossed our 23 year anniversary together in January. We are high school sweethearts. I was 16 she was 15 and we promised each other if we're in this for the long haul to never break the other's heart and cheat. I found out on OCT 7th she was having an affair. I apparently caught it just as it got physical. Fall of 2022, she asked me about having him plow for us as we were looking for a plow person. She did mention to me that she had a crush on him in highschool but "I don't need to worry about him because he is married She is married to me etc..." I said no it didn't make me comfortable and she "understood" why. She did work for the guy and his wife without telling me around Mother's day last year. She likes to do elaborate makeup and post on Facebook and he was all over her page saying things like "beautiful! Stunning!". I'm not on Facebook so I saw none of these comments from him, and obviously, she didn't tell me. They spoke online for a few months. In August I found out my mother has Leukemia and two aneurysms and could literally drop dead at any moment. I cried in my wife's arms after getting off the phone with my mother, but she apparently decided to escalate her affair after that. I had been having suspicions, tried snooping in her phone but got caught a couple times so I felt defeated and let it go for a couple months. Then, on OCT 7th, we were putting our son, 3yo, down for bed. I usually read him a book, kiss and say goodnight, then my wife will sing to him while I'm out of the room. As I come out I saw her phone charging on the table and something in my head said "LOOK! Right now!". As I open her phone I see a 😘 from some unknown company name in Facebook Messenger. I click on the company and sure enough High school crush pops up. She hadn't responded so I didn't want to make any assumptions. Maybe she will reject him. My wife is very beautiful and it's certainly not the first time a man has made a move on her. Our typical routine after we put our son down is to go into the basement and enjoy some cannabis with each other. My mind is racing and it's showing in my body language. "Is everything ok?" She asks. "Well, I should just come right out and say it why is _______ sending you kissy emojis?" Her face went blank, and right there I knew. "Because he does" she said. "What's going on between you two?" I said. "Nothing, we're just talking" she replied. "Unlock your phone , I want to see all correspondence between you two". As she opened the phone I could tell she was pressing a bunch of shit and I said "NO DELETING SHIT!" And grabbed her phone from her. On the way down together to smoke in the basement she replied back to the guy a 😘 and said "GTFO here!" He replied "Fucking lingerer man🤣🤣🤣. Did I leave that auger with that drill in your truck?" "You two fucking met?! " I said. "We just kissed" she said. And I blew up from there. She continued lying to me after Dday. I asked if they French kissed, she said no. Then later admitted he did stick his tongue in her mouth. Never showed me any conversations they had together. She had a limb saw of his she told me that another client of hers gave her, but turns out to be his. Contacts him on Thanksgiving about returning it without letting me know. Claims she "unloaded" on him calling him an online predator and she would cut him open and watch him bleed if she saw him in public, but wouldn't let me read the texts. She apparently told him she loved him which she didn't disclose to me until I asked. Downplayed the affair, did a little blame shifting. More gaslighting and narcissistic abuse even after. It's so hard to go because I don't want to put my 3 yo through the hell of divorce. But I'm getting to my wits end with this woman. She's absolutely beautiful, the sex is still amazing after 23 years. But it seems that's the only positive in the relationship right now. I don't see her the same, and suspect I never will. I can't trust her, she obviously doesn't respect me, she is verbally abusive and has been physically abusive throwing things at me. She was diagnosed with BPD last year and once I realized that and started reading about it, light bulbs went off and everything started making sense. Then when I started not tolerating her abusive behavior, this was how I was repaid. I helped this woman get everything she wanted in life. A house, her own business, a child, her dream car, her dream truck. I'm aware that I am "too nice" and enabled her behavior for far too long and that's the role I played in the relationship which I take responsibility. It's still no excuse to be cheated on though. As terrible as boundaries as I am, That was one I set early in the relationship. It's so hard to move on with a kid, house now. I feel so stuck and powerless. This has really fucked with my head and been the worst pain I've ever experienced, and I've seen a lot of loss in my life. I know many say the grass isn't always greener on the other side but I'm not sure how much longer I can deal with this.
You will get through this and you are right. Only if you feel okay, for research purposes could you please share what does he look like? My friend and I are working on physical aspects of a cheater and how people give certain people treat them.
I respectfully disagree. I cheated at 19. Never cheated through the whole of my marriage after, even after the first Dday. I did get cheated on twice and decided on divorce the last time. I'm still waiting on the final call by the judge before I start looking to date again even tho it's been over a year. People who do none of the work required will cheat again.
there is a difference between cheating once because you are unhappy and the relationship is dying and you are looking for a reason to leave. Cause its not like you are going to beg the other person to stay, nor will you deny what you did.Its not a valid reason to EVER cheat but that happens. But serial cheaters? Who will deny everything? gaslight and manipulate you? lovebomb you when you find out. Who you found out cheated on every ex they have ever been with. Cheated on you constantly Those are sick people who destroy your mental health for fun. They are the ones we tend to give 100 chances to because of how manipulating they are. And they do not change.
Yes, and staying in a relationship where cheating has occurred is a whole different thing than cheating once, breaking up and moving on with your life. Once someone knows they can get away with disrespecting you, they don’t have much reason to change. I get that everyone makes mistakes and bad choices but cheating is a deliberate choice that could be avoided by just breaking up.
That’s a great point btw. I cheated in my first marriage 25+ yrs ago and never even considered it during my 2nd marriage. But that said, I also left the first marriage. Never once considered asking him to have me back bc I understood I had ruined the relationship forever. I ruined it, I had to live with the consequences. Did I learn from it? Absolutely.
Not gonna lie, this is what I fear now. That I was just my ex wife’s Guinea pig and I’m just collateral damage on her way thru life. I’m glad you learned and became a better person, and I want her to as well but it’s painful thinking she will be everything I always wanted from her but for her next man.
Everyone can cheat. Everyone will be put in situations where they have the temptation. If you think that doing the work means you’ll never cheat shows you didn’t do all the work. You’ve already shown in the right state of mind and the right circumstances you will cheat. Always remember that.
Which is why you not only actively avoid those, you deliberately sure up your moral foundation. What you describe is the same argument for 'everyone can kill', 'everyone can be a nazi' etc. You have several people who took the unalive route instead. Do the work. There's only two situations I can think of where it's no longer a choice to cheat and it's highly likely that being unalive is a better alternative and the majority will never be put in those situations. Do the work.
Can you give me some examples of the work required Any suggestions apart from proffesisonal therapy / counselling ?
Interesting you think because you picked the wrong partner everyone who cheats is exactly the same as your cheater and apparently all cheating is the same as well. Have you even attempted to study infidelity and relationships? Your gut logic is not logic at all. A one time, first time cheater is likely to cheat again by a factor of 3.4 times, but that is not the same, as will always cheat. We all who have been in your shoes understand your pain, but as well know that once a cheater, always a cheater is not true for every cheater and type of cheating. https://www.couplestherapyinc.com/is-once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-true/#:~:text=Once%20a%20cheater%2C%20always%20a,affair%20is%20also%20a%20factor. 'Once a cheater, always a cheater? Well, not always but the risk does rise, according to some recent research. Prior infidelity can triple the chance of cheating on a current partner. But it turns out that whether you've had a partner who's had an affair is also a factor. It normalizes infidelity, turns out. If it happened to you, it must be common, the thinking goes. Historically, the research found that men consistently engaged in more affairs than women. Not according to research. Here cohabitating women are just as likely to step out. They were 3.4 times more likely to cheat long-term. The survey of 484 cohabiting adults asked about their relationship history extending back five years. Participants were asked if they were having sex with someone else in their current or if they had in their previous relationship. It also asked about their knowledge of their partners. Almost 45% of the study subjects reported cheating in their previous relationship. 44% in their current relationship. In addition, almost one-third said they knew their spouse had been unfaithful in the past. The most well-established demographic finding is that men are more likely to commit infidelity than women. It wasn't the case in this research finding. Perhaps monogamy is less true of women prior to marriage...' Keep reading.
While I admit that OP's anecdotal evidence, as well as everyone here's anecdotal evidence, aren't an effective method to establish that "once a cheater, always a cheater" The truth remains that there are effective methods. And whoever tried them, knows that indeed, one a cheater always a cheater. No exception observed. It doesn't triple anything, it guarantees it. It's the facts that can be observed when you try to observe. It's impossible to observe anything else in good faith.
Well, ok, I guess!
" you picked the wrong partner " Nobody picks cheaters or narcissists. This type of victim blaming language should've stopped years ago but here we are. Not surprising it comes from someone who defends cheaters. All self-reported surveys are garbage. People who cheat and lie will cheat and lie in a survey. If they told their life partner in their face that they never cheated, why wouldn't they lie in a survey?
As you observe and orient to your situation, in addition to psychological profile and temperament, perhaps you should factor in age because a LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) once told me in her professional opinion men did not begin to grow up until their mid-30’s…nevertheless, sympathy for your situation (you’re not responsible for your partner growing up and maturing) and be well…
His behavior is sociopathic. A 25yr old man sleeping with a woman who is 40 for a year whilst in a relationship for 6 years? that has nothing to do with "men growing up at 30". Most men dont do things like that because they can differntiate between what is right and wrong, like any normal person.
THIS!!!! I don't care if you're 19 or 39 right is right, an wrong is wrong and people know which is which, they choose to deny the guilty/this is wrong feelings and do what feels good to them, without thinking about the ramifications.
OP’s bf 100% knew what he was doing was wrong, he just didn’t care. There was never a punishment for him cheating in 2019,2020, and 2021. 3 years of cheating without losing your partner would lead any cheater to continue cheating…
What I’m writing is to evaluate “willing and able”…some are unwilling to grow up, some unable…the road to hell is paved with good intentions…it takes much work to overcome temptation and establish (or re-establish) good boundaries…yes, look at the direction the nose is pointing to see where they’ll end up…not every boundary is easy for everyone to keep…at the same time given every chance and time to amend one’s life, this relationship appears not working…time to move on…best wishes…
…….huh……?
Consider these truisms: “once a thief, always a thief;”Once a liar, always a liar;” “Once a cheater, always a cheater;” those aphorisms only address one issue—not the total picture—nor the complete individual—that’s all…if you reduce all the values to one: infidelity cancels the relationship…so be it…true the best predictor for the future is the past behavior BUT individuals are free to choose…granted this individual has failed this relationship (and it can’t be saved) but going forward he still has to launch and thrive…so sorry for OP to have to make decisions going forward and clean up the messes…but the violator may choose to use the circumstances to better himself and make better choices/life…be well…
I genuinely struggle to figure out the message you’re trying to convey. Sometimes less is more. Take care
Thanks for trying…
Bottom-line, he cheated on OP in this relationship but he is not compelled to cheat in his next relationship; and OP didn’t cheat on him but his next mate may…what clouds the picture is a long time relationship with an older woman…while life is not a linear time line, his behavior is generating momentum that he will find hard work to slow and extinguish his “helling around” because there are multiple causative factors here (many of which details are not teased out in OP’s statement of the issues/problem…there may be hidden issues as well (obviously)…age, gender, culture, ethnicity, education, class, etc. …we’ll see what the punishment is and how quickly he learns from experience and modifies his behavior appropriately…after all, it’s a civil case not criminal at this point…be well..,
To restate, if the problem is sexual infidelity (and unhappiness), then what will happen if that behavior is extinguished? To my mind all the parties will be faced with the fundamentals of the process of finding happiness in life, and meaning, and overcoming anxiety…I completely agree with the statement “less is more” keep it simple: stop “helling around” and use that energy for more creative problems-solving and moving forward…our society seems obsessed with sexuality(because it’s simple and sells) but the quest for peace and tranquility has been lost; and one more relationship has been destroyed by misdirection and mislabeling…thanks for listening and be well…
That person's "professional opinion" seems to be just bottom of the barrel misandry...
What she was saying is maturing is a process of setting goals, setting boundaries and working at it through time: childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, adulthood…ultimately death is the final stage of growth…be well…
Yes, what she was saying was idiotic and misandrist
First off I’m sorry for your pain. It sucks and I’ve been there. I will say this though, if someone admitted to having cheated in the past, I’d still consider dating them. Honestly. I don’t 100% believe the once always stigma. HOWEVER, if they cheat on me? No you’ll never even get a chance to explain before I shoo you out the door lol. And you’ll never get back in. I don’t punish for the past entirely (some pasts I’m not going to accept but not a hard and fast rule) but I do punish betrayal.
What folder can you still messages in? Is that on Facebook? It never occurred to me that somebody could still send me messages even if they were blocked. Now I’m curious.
Google iMessage on MacBook. It’s crazy it still sends there
100% agree. Even if he does change, can you ever trust them again? No.
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Only a very small percentage of cheaters stop and feel remorse. The majority don’t and their friends and family think it’s acceptable and we’re just supposed to take it. I’ve learned my lesson.
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Im talking about serial cheaters though. The narcissistic monsters will never even have told you they cheated in the past as they believe they are perfect and they did nothing wrong. atleast he was truthful with you. But did he cheat on her once or did he cheat on her throughout the entire relationship? Therein lies the answer i guess...
You're about to repeat the same cycle. If you don't take the time to actually heal.
I dont understand how guys do this? Is he super good looking and confident and rich and just lies to women to get them to bed? lives in a city with tons of single and open minded dtf women?
He is none of those things🤷♀️, not good looking, not rich, deeply insecure. Not a lot of single women. Small town He portrays to be very confident and he is very very charming. Very manly. Goes hunting, drives a motorcycle, can fix any car. But goodlooking and rich? the opposite. Also one would say he is confident, but thats what people like them portray??? because a real confident person does not need anything that moves' attention to feel good about themselves. He does lie to them. He lies about everything. He lies about things he owns, he lies about how he is planning to buy a big a$$ boat or the latest truck , when in reality he can barely afford rent or his current truck's installment. He lies about everything. Once a few years ago, I heard him say to people where we were having a barebeque how "he bought my car for me." An Audi. People were complimenting my car and he said he bought it. A car i bought myself a few months before meeting him.. Those words he said has always stayed with me, because he didnt think I heard it. But in that moment I thought "WTF LOL" because he sounded so confident like he believed it himself. Like that was the God's honest truth that he was speaking. Thats how he does it.
My jaw is in the floor. Thanks for sharing your experience. I just can’t believe there are people like that. I agree cheaters will never change. It’s in their dna to be selfish and mean.
Same situation here. Trying to get free from the trauma bond and it is so hard
I know how you feel. Some days are worse than others. Its like a drug addict having withdrawal symptoms. But Ive been No Contact 16 days today. And each passing day you wake up and feel a little bit better. Getting through the day is also an emotional rollercoaster. But im proud to say 16 days No Contact is probably the longest ive gone without letting him back into my life in 6 years I am proud of myself Just stick to No Contact is all I can say. No matter how effing hard it is. No matter how much you feel like you are dying and cannot take a second longer. Think of yourself as a druggie. Think of how bad you are gonna feel when you reach out and have to start your NC over again.
Feeling like a druggie, 100% this. Sometimes it’s so hard, and it comes out of nowhere. I haven’t been good at no contact, but now it’s no contact for sure. I sent him the most disparaging (but true) email I could write. I basically blew up what was left of the relationship and of us on my way out. But it’s the only way. They will not miraculously become decent human beings all of sudden. Congratulations on your 2 weeks of strength! I hope to be there soon!