In the 70's American auto manufacturers focused solely on large and luxury vehicles which allowed Japanese brands to bring in small and low cost vehicles; as a result those American brands lost market share and sales.
Today we have American auto manufacturers making large and luxury electric vehicles and neglecting small and low cost options; with very few cars for sale. Chinese brands are going to dominate that market and reduce domestic brand market share. They already have low cost vehicles being sold across the world and going to enter the American market sooner than later with no competition.
It's kinda wild how fucking stupid they are. Chevy had the bolt EUV out for 30k out the door after rebates a couple years ago when you could barely buy a used car for that price. It sold out IMMEDIATELY. 6 mo th waitlists everywhere.
So what'd they do?
Discontinued the line to make way for the electric chevy blazer, 10-20k more for a bigger electric car than the one the market demanded, into a space several other manufacturers were already moving.
Like...BASIC business school case studies will be w ritten about this. So dumb.
I’m generalizing here, but sometimes it seems it’s because there’s much less perceived recognition in making stuff that is not high end or luxury. Same thing in Scandinavia, all products have to be “unique and luxurious”. Sure, you can mark up the price, but also sell much less. Now, something practical might not be sexy, but you can sell a lot more (=$$$)
Vans shoes make stupid money with recognition from the average man, to celebrities. And they are still only 50-60 bucks.
If Chevy discontinued the volt, then they have been losing money somewhere. And that's their fault.
> In the 70's American auto manufacturers focused solely on large and luxury vehicles
Hey now, ford has just scrapped all of its small models and plans to become a luxury brand or something, im sure it will go well for them.
everyone is dropping sedans from their lineups. it sucks. Soon you'll be able to get a Honda Accord or Civic, Toyota Camry or Corolla, or one of 100 different SUV's that get 30mpg and cost $60,000 on the low end.
Ford has dropped the Focus and Fiesta (their two genuine best cars) in lots of markets, pretty much only available in Europe nowadays. In some places they keep the Figo which is a kinda poopy car that fills the cheap market and doesn’t take sales from the SUVs.
To be fair it’s not like Nissan is much better, they pushing SUVs and crossovers heavily, in many markets the March is their only cheap car and it sucks as a hot hatch and sucks as a family car. They offer the Leaf in some markets but not all, and in some places the Kicks and Altima are their cheapest options.
Chevrolet has some cheap cars out there but they suck balls.
Yeah, i currently drive a fiesta van for work, and its brilliant.
They are to a limited extent building bigger vehicles on the fiesta/focus chassis for more money.
Everyone is pushing SUVs and crossovers because they can call them "luxury" and make more profit on the same chassis through the application of stilts.
Idk why electric cars have to be smart cars. Like just put a fucking battery in it and give me the normal functions of a normal car. I dont need all the other crap.
I saw a review of the new rivian and finally saw some sensible design. Sure, it has a screen you can control everything with, but it also has all the usual buttons and knobs. I can’t believe it’s taken this long for someone to do it.
Cheap Chinese Evs are already widely sold in Australia and are staring in Europe.
US protectionist rules will save the automakers for a few years, but eventually they'll come through.
You're insane if you think they will allow chinese EV's with chinese in house software constantly connected to the internet and satellites.
They don't even allow gas powered chinese vehicles here, Huawei has less CCP connections than BYD; which is nearly fully subsidized by the CCP.
Honestly. As a regular european dude my choice is between a chinese car crammed full of monitoring software that tracks me and sends that data back home, or an american car full of monitoring software that tracks me and sends that data back home. Cant say that part is a big factor in my choice when my time comes to buy an EV.
It’s not even about it tracking you, it’s about the US government allowing it.
I just find it hard to believe they will when they can control those vehicles overseas directly connected to the Chinese government.
US bans cellphones from them; were talking about a 4k-5k+ pound vehicle that has way more consequences tied to it.
So the US banning IIRC ZTE and Huawei was because their routing and modem chips were infected with spyware from the CCP (or whoever). They didn't only ban cellphones but everything that contained a chip from those companies notably only for government purposes.
Same with TikTok on government cellphones.
It's actually more on the NTHSB testing and approval where cheap cars fail. Mexico has tons of smaller vehicles that would do great in the US market, but none of them are approved for sale here, and you can't import and register them for use on our roads. Things like the Dodge Ram 700 would be great, many people want a SMALL pickup, but they can't sell them here.
But hey, anything built in 99’ or earlier we can import, register as a classic, and drive as we please - left or right hand drive - zero emissions control, doesn’t matter.
Volvo (Geely) ex30 is selling for $35k despite a 27% tariff.
And many Chinese companies are opening manufacturing in Mexico, it remains to be seen how USA reacts to those.
This isn’t discussed enough. It’s not just Chinese brands that have an opportunity here. Brands like Volkswagen, Subaru and Honda have very loyal customers who swear by those brands. There’s a huge market for EV versions of their most popular compact cars and SUVs that are more moderately priced. VW’s ID.2all is an appealing option under $30k, but there are currently no plans for a North America release.
The US subsidiary of VW (and to a lesser extent Honda and Mazda) have been following the same stupid trends as the domestic brands. Axing their small practical cars in favor of a bewildering lineup of CUVs/SUVs.
VW no longer sell a single wagon or a "plain" hatchback (non-GTI or R) in North America. That's messed up.
I mean can‘t really fault them, if americans insist on buying stupid unnecessary cars then that‘s what they have to make, especially if the margins on those are much better than on an entry level golf… in europe they still sell those smaller cars after all
>as a result those American brands lost market share and sales.
I will buy an above MSRP Corolla over a below MSRP Chevy Malibu any day.
American automakers are on a downward spiral where you buy a Ford or Chevy because your family buys a Ford or Chevy (besides pickup trucks or large utility vans), and end up having the most frustrating issues like a bad head gasket seal or the transmission starts grinding at 50k miles. GM had no reason to do a 10 billion dollar buyback knowing how bad their situation is, and Stellantis was on the list of the 10 least sold cars in America 7 out of 10 times.
In china they cost 10-15k for a 200mile range compact car. They're tiny little underpowered econoboxes with 80mph top speeds and 13 second 0-60mph accelerations.
still great for a daily driver though.
Well in the UK the MG 4 costs £26,995 for the base spec with a range of over 200 to 300 miles and useful features like V2L. For 300 to 400 miles it's £36,495. These are cheaper than the Model 3 which starts at £39,990.
Performance starts at 7.5 seconds to 60, and as low as 6.1 seconds depending on spec.
Max speed is 100 to 112 mph.
Think there's an element of the fact Tesla stock are overpriced catching up on them. They've had a cushy position but other manufacturers have caught up with them, particularly Chinese ones.
BYD looks like a EV I would buy. It's an electric vehicle. That's it. No computers. No 50 thousand cameras etc.. it's just a fucking car with a lot of batteries.
I already want to buy it.
Expectations are so low really - like, does it have a volume knob for the radio? Can I turn the blower and heat up or down without scrolling through a menu system? Sold!
I hope so! I was imagining a future with a car after market like Cuba. For those of us that don't want to have to sign into an account to drive a damn car.
> I was imagining a future with a car after market like Cuba.
But I don't want to replace my engine with one out of a forklift because that's all that exists.
It's already a trend among car manufacturers to go back from an "all touchscreen" solution to a mix of tactile buttons and touchscreens. It's based on strong customer feedback and actual data on UI timing and mental load while driving. Tesla's approach is soon going to look antiquated and awkward.
Also, maybe, reacting to the incredible surge is pedestrian vehicular deaths around sunset when traffic is high and visibility low. Distracted drivers are an epidemic.
The guys name is [Redd Pepper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N5l0sgPP5k) ;)
edit: (or, if you're of a different generation, Don LaFontaine, thanks [IsThatAll for pointing this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/195s29u/comment/khpf0wh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
> * His name is Redd Pepper, see below.
Redd is certainly a current voice over artist who could do the job, but the real movie guy voice was Don LaFontaine. Don did over 5000 movies (and many hundreds of thousands of other credits) by the time he passed in 2008. If you heard a movie trailer the last 50 years, there is a good chance it was Don
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPMvj_xejg
This actually does appeal to me. I am pretty utilitarian when it comes to vehicles , so this pitch would interest me. Less shit to break, easier and cheaper repair costs, increased reliability, etc.
100% this. I want something that gets me where I’m going reliably, safely, and economically. I don’t want the fancy overpriced features and functions that inevitably break, cost a fortune to repair, and double the price of the car.
Reminds me of that tweet
>>My Tesla just got an update to the automatic windshield wipers. Five years after purchase and the car is still getting better. Because of AI.
>My windshield wipers turn on when I hit the button."
It astounds me the amount of shit, even in my cheap ass fiesta that I’m not even 100% on what it even does. Meanwhile, the one damn thing I’d like it to do effectively, connect to my phone and play what I want is always a pain.
Couldn't agree more. When I found out that you can only activate the window wipers on the touch screen I was out on Tesla. When it starts raining while you're driving and visibility becomes an issue the idea that you have to navigate a touchscreen to turn on window wipers is crazy to me.
What the fuck, is this real? It should be absolutely mandatory that safety-critical systems can be operated without taking hands off the wheel and eyes off the road. Stuff like wipers, high beams, indicators, horn etc. Ideally the precise *way* of operation should be standardised too (like indicator/wiper stalks pretty much converged to a common design), but that's a further step. I can't even imagine buying a car that won't let me wipe the windshield on demand, that's crazy and could cause a crash if the automatic system doesn't detect crap obscuring my vision.
You are not the first and certainly won't be the last person asking for a freaking *normal car*. We don't need a fancy spaceship, stop pushing those completely outlandish designs.
To be completely fair, some of the new features are legitimate and compelling. I would kill for a rear camera on my current car. Lane assist would also be helpful because people tend to love to drive in my blind spot during my commute.
The rest? Chuck it. If you can run cyberpunk in a car, you’ve lost the plot.
Getting a Toyota Corolla equivalent of an EV would be great. Most ppl just want a car to get them from point a to b, has AC, working sound system and air bags.
Just made it simple, reliable and be able to charge from your garage
I have a toyota hybrid at the moment. Seriously considering the dolphin or seagull from BYD in a year or two for the same reason you just listed.
It's a car that runs on electricity, I don't need self driving features or 1000hp equivalent motors. I just want a comfortable cheap car to drive without using fossil fuels.
99 percent of new zealands electricity supply is from renewable resources to. We aren't using fossil fuels to create the electricity.
>99 percent of new zealands electricity supply is from renewable resources to. We aren't using fossil fuels to create the electricity.
For anyone curious it is more like 85%: [New Zealands eletricity mix](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-prod-source-stacked?country=~NZL)
and NZ hasn't even really bothered much to move to clean electricity. NZ is perfect for hydro, geothermal, wind and solar power. It makes no sense to keep buying petrol from overseas.
85% is a lot more than bothered.
And there are national security arguments to keeping as many energy types open for the long term. The infrastructure needed to import liquid gas are expensive, slow to build, and require pretty constant maintanace. Having those capabilities open while only having 10% of your energy use being natural gas, if applied to the entire world, would be significant enough that global warming wouldn't even be a conversation anymore
That's my biggest gripe all alone. I want a normal vehicle, but electric powered. Just basic Toyota Corolla, normal door handles, single pane glass, just all the normal stuff. If my door handle gets damaged, I don't want to spend $1500-3000 for a new motorized door handle that freaking pops out when you walk up to it. Stop over complicating things... Yeesh.
yep
20k sedan / hatch with 200 mile range is my dream ev
no need for 0-60 in blazing speed, no need for auto pilot that don't work or tries to kill you, no need for screens out of the wazoo
just a ev that is cheap to buy, cheap to run, and have enough range for in city shit because I can rent or use another gas car for trips.
Honest to god question, what's wrong with the Chevy Bolt? It's at a fantastic price point and is basically the poster child for a reasonably built economy EV with all the bells and whistles you would expect from a modern day car.
I'm in Australia and BYD are still pretty rare to see, not as much as they were say 12 months ago but feels like every second car is a Tesla (they're not, but they are everywhere).
Is there a reason they are popular in NZ?
They’re popular in NZ because the last govt conveniently set the threshold for getting an EV rebate/subsidy equals to the price of a base model Tesla, so everyone who bought a Tesla received a subsidy
And there are a ton of Tesla’s in New Zealand, from there originally but have lived in Europe the last 6-7 years. I was visiting NZ this time last year and I was shocked how many Teslas I saw compared to what I see in Europe.
China nailed it. Why can't I buy an EV in the US that doesn't have all the stupid bells and whistles. I don't want a super computer with a touch screen and a hundred cameras. I just want an affordable all wheel drive EV.
That's also why Singapore spurned Tesla last mid-decade when the latter came wooing. Years later, Elon & his media supporters tried to spin it as the country not supporting EVs. But Singaporeans tend to be very pragmatic & noted in Parliament that Tesla was positioning itself as high-performance & high-end, & what they really want is sensible car technology for the mass market.
Eloon's supports all over this thread trying to tell me why I want a super computer in my fucking car lol. Hey assholes we get it, you own TSLA stock. Nobody cares fuck off now.
Me too. I don;'t need all of that nonsense. I have my phone for podcasts or music. Just get me where I need to go without fossil fuels (or from the electricity from a clean power plant) and I'm happy.
I just don't understand any sort of tech stocks anymore. Tesla has always been overpriced so I've never jumped on the bandwagon and then their stock just kept going up and up anyway.
Yep--this is the main issue. Tesla's stock valuation is basically a "gamble" that it will some day capture basically the entirety of a new market--fully autonomous cars.
If investors begin to suspect Tesla is just going to be a "successful auto manufacturer", then its valuation is many times beyond what is considered reasonable for that. Car makers are pretty predictable entities with relatively low margins, the more Tesla looks like a "car maker" and not some sort of speculative unicorn that is going to dominate a yet-to-exist market, the more overvalued it will look.
That being said, it isn't the same thing as saying Tesla is "bad" or headed for ruin--Tesla's share price could crater down to earth, and it would still be a viable business. It is just priced massively above what it should be in terms of its stock price *if* it is just a regular automaker. One can look at the share price of companies like Ford / GM / Stellantis / VW etc for a baseline of what a typical carmaker should look like in terms of stock valuation.
Tesla‘s car business has lost any kind of uniqueness and it’s clear Tesla will not dominate all car markets but the fast charging network is still by far the best in US and EU.
If anyone could compete (maybe Chinese companies with billions of government money or an alliance of European car makers with EU money) then I’d say Tesla will face some truly hard times… but for now they got a really good position with the chargera
How exactly are they monetizing having the best charging network? In the U.S. they have agreed to open a lot of them up to competitors to qualify for (a one time) subsidy from the Feds, and they did similar in Europe in exchange for a paltry $150m payment.
If anything they probably should have kept the network closed as long as possible, it erodes their competitive advantage that they have opened the network in their two largest markets.
On top of that, I think people dramatically overestimate the value in being the company that controls the charger network. How many automakers invested in running their own gas filling stations? Basically none of them. That is essentially the same business as running an EV charger, it isn't a high margin business--and it also isn't actually a core part of automaking. Tesla *had* to build out a charging network to build out a market for its cars, but most likely as the market matures none of the automakers will *want* to run their own charging network, for the same reason automakers largely never wanted to run their own gas stations--it isn't actually a high margin business. (Even the oil companies that used to own filling stations in a form of vertical integration, have mostly spun off their branded filling stations as separate entities--it is a lot more profitable to drill for oil than to run gas pumps.)
Maybe internationally, but current US Domestic Policy means that Tesla is under no threat at home from the Chinese manufacturers.
Sure, a BYD Seagull or whatever would destroy a Model 3 in a free market but they're illegal to import - and I imagine Tesla/GM/Ford/etc will spend heavily to keep it that way.
Yeah. And the Musk’s shine has worn off. One just can’t run a billion dollar company into the ground in a public and manic way and still be called a genius.
I bought a Bolt EUV this week. I think I paid $22k after all the incentives. Musk's bullshit was definitely a factor in choosing not to do business with Tesla.
EDIT: For those curious, you get a $7500 rebate off the price at sale. You may also qualify for more off depending on other factors. I didn't qualify for state incentives, but first responders, medical workers, etc. get discounts. I think I got something like $1200 off from being a medical worker. $500 from GM and basically no docking fee from my dealership. I can't remember exact amount, but it dropped the price dramatically.
Bolt owner, and while there are things that scream "budget" (such as the flooring) The car is pretty solid. it still has lots of buttons and not all touch screen, and is very responsive. the only complaint I have is all GM future cars ditching Android and car play
I work for GM and have no idea why they decided that was a hill they want to die on. As a consumer it makes absolutely no sense.
I was strongly considering trading in my current Equinox for an EV version in a few years but not if they don’t have CarPlay anymore. It’s so stupid
Edit: Well, I have an idea. But it’s rooted in capitalistic cynicism.
And they will die on it. You either have to offer CarPlay or you need to be as good as tesla. Rivian is taking the latter approach and to pull it off you have to be nimble AF and have outstanding software designers - even they may not succeed on that mission. GM is the polar opposite of nimble and having good designers.
Bought a Bolt EUV 2023 last March.
Great vehicle for the price. The DC "fast charging" isn't *fast* though, so not great for road-trips, while still do-able. I'd recommend the car for sure.
We've put 12K miles on our 23 Bolt EUV since last May and it's been a great vehicle for us so far. No issues thus far and it's been on 2 or 3 longer trips that were around 400 miles round trip. As said many times, it's fast charging speed isn't so great but when you only need to make 1 fast charge stop it's perfectly fine and we just eat while it charges or walk around the town we're in for a bit. Almost all the charging is at home and at various L2 chargers where we go, it's only been fast charged maybe 4 times. In the cold winter weather we can still get 160-175 miles of range easy with keeping the heater on and driving like we would in our ICE vehicles.
Very happy with it overall and for our family it's the goto vehicle for 99% of our running around town. Our other family vehicle is a gas guzzler and good on long trips so we've got our bases covered.
I said something similar to a coworker yesterday. EVs are amazing if you can charge at home or work with a Level 2 charger. Without those? Not great. Better DCFC is not a solution to the charging issue of EVs. The gas station mentality kind of belongs in the past.
I have been charging with a 120v outlet until my Level 2 gets installed. It's acceptable, but I am looking forward to that install.
I love it. I love the instant torque and all the tech on board. It's a joy to drive. I also like it's much smaller than my last vehicle and is easier to park. I don't think I would want to go back to an ICE car after trying an EV.
The fast charging is not great, but it fits my needs as a commuter. I would probably opt for something with faster charging speed if I wanted to travel. Chevy has their new offerings, but they're very large and expensive. The Blazer apparently has issues. The Nissan Ariya looks nice, but I chose not to go for it due to the high price. Hyundai and Kia don't sell their EVs here where I live.
I got $7500 off instantly, $500 off for being a healthcare worker, and a $1000 credit for a home charger. I got a cheaper docking fee from $699 (I think) to $75 at my dealership since I worked in healthcare. I think it came out to around $24k brand new when I signed the paper.
Yeah. I’d be annoyed if my car had issues in the first two years. I expect ten years out more out of a car. My current is almost 14 years old and still going strong.
tender long fertile melodic support concerned chunky scarce hard-to-find joke
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can tell you it is. I had a Chevy Sonic and in the second year the 3rd gear went out. Chevy had the car for almost two months while i drove a ugly gold Malibu covered in stains. When i got my car back the shifter was fucked up, my steering wheel was cut up by a knife or something and there was scratches all over it. Fair to say i got a very good trade in on a new car at their dealership when it was all done with. Last time i ever do business with those inbred halfwits
Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Chevy and Ford all make better quality EVs than Tesla now, and have the advantage of years of learning how to make cars that actually meet safety regulations.
I have a theory that Tesla’s lasting legacy won’t be its cars, but its charging network. If I were them, I’d sell my auto tech to manufacturers and run the charging network.
The fact that your country has let corporations split up *electricity* by brand is fucking ridiculous. In my country I can charge my VW at any supercharger, and the teslas can charge on any normal fast charger. All because of regulations implementing a standard plug and charging voltage.
It's not that they let them, it's that other companies didn't want to use Tesla charging system because at first they were jerks about it and wanted to charge. Now our govt has actually created reasons to share and Tesla tech is now open and free and many companies will use it. So the next version of evs will be ALOT more interchangeable to charging standards.
It's ALOT like VHS and betamax... There were 2 standards, and the market sorted it out
Teslas are so bad at sensing rain. I make sure my cameras are always clean, but it will still wipe every time a shadow passes over the windshield on a sunny day.
This. I used to really like and admire the guy (even when I never understood his vision of Mars) however he used to be successful and non-political. But then he has started to open his political big mouth and I believe he never thought that would affect him but he is very wrong.
I still believe he might be able to pull off the self-driving vehicles but he needs to keep his mouth shut and focus on engineering and managing his companies.
>I still believe he might be able to pull off the self-driving vehicles
That dream is dead. Statistically, a computer is a safer driver than most people. But there is an element of trust required in the product and the company making it.
Anything with the Musk brand has become synonymous with his politics. We just don't/can't trust the man anymore.
>Statistically, a computer is a safer driver than most people.
Those statistics are highly dubious and full of mathematical bias.
For example, people are more likely to use self-driving mode in conditions that are less dangerous to begin with. So is self-driving the cause of low accident rates, or is low accident rates the cause of self-driving?
And that's a best case scenario, assuming that they don't go out of their way to fudge the numbers.
Was gonna buy a Y, but I can’t stand Musk. Like it or not, there’s no separating Musk from a Tesla. If you buy a Tesla, it will be assumed you have no problem with his bullshit.
Bought an Audi instead.
I took the headline more in the general climate of "declining EV sales", the media likes to harp on about in recent weeks. When "declining" is in all actuality sales still going up massively, just not as much as they used to. It doesn't say "Tesla winter", but "EV winter", afterall. The article seems to allude to this as well.
I will never hesitate to dunk on Elon, but pretty much every extreme wealthy person has their wealth tied in one source, Bezos, Gates, Cook, Zuck..etc.
Elon is even more diversified though, SpaceX is at $180B and he has 42% of the company, so even if he had 0 in Tesla he'd still have $75B tied into SpaceX which can explode further if they go public.
The Norwegian and other Scandanavian unions binding together against him scared the shit out of Elmo so much that he announced raises for his US factory workers. I hope the UAW unionizes Tesla.
Short of $9.00 gas, I think hybrids take off in my region first. Right now the most commonly sold cars are Dino-burning crossovers, AWD, or 4x4.
The inside of the cab may be -15 to 15F several months a year. That is a ton of juice to heat on top of diminished returns on the power unit in the extreme cold.
As other’s have pointed out the “we’ll charge it at work” doesn’t work at most jobs. You are in the back of a gigantic parking lot. “Well then you just run a 500 foot extension cable from your apartment to your Car, just reel it in every morning” also comes across as a joke or insult to the person you are trying to persuade.
I have no issues with BYD, but I can't help but laugh that the same people bitching that Tesla should unionize so their employees can fight for better pay, have zero issues with BYD who can only afford to make EVs for so cheap because of the pittance they pay to line workers in China.
I’ve got to think that Elon Musk alienated a decent-sized chunk of the affluent, eco-aware market when he unnecessarily outed himself as a hard right winger. He certainly alienated me and I was quite impressed with the Model S.
Same, and I know a couple of others who feel the same way. I'd love to get an electric car, but I'll be damned if that car is going to be a Tesla.
The whole thing is so incredibly stupid--he's selling a product that liberals should love and conservatives have very vocally said they hate, and... he does everything he can to make potential buyers (liberals) loathe him. It's so unbelievably stupid it boggles my mind.
It actually all makes sense when you realize musk is just a rich idiot con artist.
I mean I fell off the musk train with Hyperloop - that was really insane and fruitless.
2019 model 3 here, good good, more competition so shit gets cheaper for us too
All in all, back in the day, there were other EVs, but nothing came close in terms of range and looks of the model 3, and since I've did my research on Tesla back in 2013 and it looked promising then, natural choice.
But Muskyboi there certainly had to open his mouth instead of improving their build quality, get fukt, maybe now fire gets lit under his ass
I hate the fact that less expensive cars and higher worker pay are presented as causes for the stock price tragedy, instead of the wins for regular people they actually are.
I don't think these articles really identify the big issue: Elon Musk.
There are many many many people interested in EVs but won't touch a tesla because Musk is what he is.
Tesla has a Musk issue and they really need to solve it.
Anyone have a better link of the text?
I think [this is the same Bloomberg story published on Yahoo](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-gets-94-billion-reality-133000964.html).
More and more. I have to copy the title and Y! It.
Or if you're using Mozilla you just hit F9 to get the reader view, and then no cookie or search engine bullshit is required.
Did not know that F9 trick, taaar! :)
[Archived version of the article.](https://archive.is/LXiar)
I really wish there was a paywall tag users could attach (similar to report this post).
Most of the time you can take the title search it into Google and find the article somewhere else.
In the 70's American auto manufacturers focused solely on large and luxury vehicles which allowed Japanese brands to bring in small and low cost vehicles; as a result those American brands lost market share and sales. Today we have American auto manufacturers making large and luxury electric vehicles and neglecting small and low cost options; with very few cars for sale. Chinese brands are going to dominate that market and reduce domestic brand market share. They already have low cost vehicles being sold across the world and going to enter the American market sooner than later with no competition.
It's kinda wild how fucking stupid they are. Chevy had the bolt EUV out for 30k out the door after rebates a couple years ago when you could barely buy a used car for that price. It sold out IMMEDIATELY. 6 mo th waitlists everywhere. So what'd they do? Discontinued the line to make way for the electric chevy blazer, 10-20k more for a bigger electric car than the one the market demanded, into a space several other manufacturers were already moving. Like...BASIC business school case studies will be w ritten about this. So dumb.
I’m generalizing here, but sometimes it seems it’s because there’s much less perceived recognition in making stuff that is not high end or luxury. Same thing in Scandinavia, all products have to be “unique and luxurious”. Sure, you can mark up the price, but also sell much less. Now, something practical might not be sexy, but you can sell a lot more (=$$$)
And this is why VW is far wealthier and more powerful than ferrari. And Costco generates more revenue selling clothes than levis.
Good marketing can sell practical.
[удалено]
Vans shoes make stupid money with recognition from the average man, to celebrities. And they are still only 50-60 bucks. If Chevy discontinued the volt, then they have been losing money somewhere. And that's their fault.
> In the 70's American auto manufacturers focused solely on large and luxury vehicles Hey now, ford has just scrapped all of its small models and plans to become a luxury brand or something, im sure it will go well for them.
everyone is dropping sedans from their lineups. it sucks. Soon you'll be able to get a Honda Accord or Civic, Toyota Camry or Corolla, or one of 100 different SUV's that get 30mpg and cost $60,000 on the low end.
Here in Europe, Honda has even dropped the Accord in favor of SUVs. It sucks.
Yup big oversized Luxury F150s with all the trimmings.
And the most basic option with 4 doors will start at $60k with cloth seats
Ford has dropped the Focus and Fiesta (their two genuine best cars) in lots of markets, pretty much only available in Europe nowadays. In some places they keep the Figo which is a kinda poopy car that fills the cheap market and doesn’t take sales from the SUVs. To be fair it’s not like Nissan is much better, they pushing SUVs and crossovers heavily, in many markets the March is their only cheap car and it sucks as a hot hatch and sucks as a family car. They offer the Leaf in some markets but not all, and in some places the Kicks and Altima are their cheapest options. Chevrolet has some cheap cars out there but they suck balls.
Yeah, i currently drive a fiesta van for work, and its brilliant. They are to a limited extent building bigger vehicles on the fiesta/focus chassis for more money. Everyone is pushing SUVs and crossovers because they can call them "luxury" and make more profit on the same chassis through the application of stilts.
Idk why electric cars have to be smart cars. Like just put a fucking battery in it and give me the normal functions of a normal car. I dont need all the other crap.
That’s essentially the Chevy bolt. Unfortunately I think they’re planning on pulling back production
I saw a review of the new rivian and finally saw some sensible design. Sure, it has a screen you can control everything with, but it also has all the usual buttons and knobs. I can’t believe it’s taken this long for someone to do it.
Cheap Chinese Evs are already widely sold in Australia and are staring in Europe. US protectionist rules will save the automakers for a few years, but eventually they'll come through.
You're insane if you think they will allow chinese EV's with chinese in house software constantly connected to the internet and satellites. They don't even allow gas powered chinese vehicles here, Huawei has less CCP connections than BYD; which is nearly fully subsidized by the CCP.
Honestly. As a regular european dude my choice is between a chinese car crammed full of monitoring software that tracks me and sends that data back home, or an american car full of monitoring software that tracks me and sends that data back home. Cant say that part is a big factor in my choice when my time comes to buy an EV.
It’s not even about it tracking you, it’s about the US government allowing it. I just find it hard to believe they will when they can control those vehicles overseas directly connected to the Chinese government. US bans cellphones from them; were talking about a 4k-5k+ pound vehicle that has way more consequences tied to it.
So the US banning IIRC ZTE and Huawei was because their routing and modem chips were infected with spyware from the CCP (or whoever). They didn't only ban cellphones but everything that contained a chip from those companies notably only for government purposes. Same with TikTok on government cellphones.
intentional backdoor might be a little more accurate
What about German cars? Aren’t there any good options?
Expensive as shit.
The base price for a VW ID4 is about $38k, i think thats about $4k cheaper than the base version of a Tesla model 3
VW don't think Australians are worthy of being offered those. We are one of the last places they can sell 100% ICE without penalties.
How? America can just keep the tax high enough to keep competition at bay indefinitely
It's actually more on the NTHSB testing and approval where cheap cars fail. Mexico has tons of smaller vehicles that would do great in the US market, but none of them are approved for sale here, and you can't import and register them for use on our roads. Things like the Dodge Ram 700 would be great, many people want a SMALL pickup, but they can't sell them here.
But hey, anything built in 99’ or earlier we can import, register as a classic, and drive as we please - left or right hand drive - zero emissions control, doesn’t matter.
What's the best resource for doing this? I really don't want to buy anything newer but most used are still too modern for my old tastes. )
Volvo (Geely) ex30 is selling for $35k despite a 27% tariff. And many Chinese companies are opening manufacturing in Mexico, it remains to be seen how USA reacts to those.
This isn’t discussed enough. It’s not just Chinese brands that have an opportunity here. Brands like Volkswagen, Subaru and Honda have very loyal customers who swear by those brands. There’s a huge market for EV versions of their most popular compact cars and SUVs that are more moderately priced. VW’s ID.2all is an appealing option under $30k, but there are currently no plans for a North America release.
The US subsidiary of VW (and to a lesser extent Honda and Mazda) have been following the same stupid trends as the domestic brands. Axing their small practical cars in favor of a bewildering lineup of CUVs/SUVs. VW no longer sell a single wagon or a "plain" hatchback (non-GTI or R) in North America. That's messed up.
I mean can‘t really fault them, if americans insist on buying stupid unnecessary cars then that‘s what they have to make, especially if the margins on those are much better than on an entry level golf… in europe they still sell those smaller cars after all
>as a result those American brands lost market share and sales. I will buy an above MSRP Corolla over a below MSRP Chevy Malibu any day. American automakers are on a downward spiral where you buy a Ford or Chevy because your family buys a Ford or Chevy (besides pickup trucks or large utility vans), and end up having the most frustrating issues like a bad head gasket seal or the transmission starts grinding at 50k miles. GM had no reason to do a 10 billion dollar buyback knowing how bad their situation is, and Stellantis was on the list of the 10 least sold cars in America 7 out of 10 times.
How much do these low cost Chinese EV actually cost?
In china they cost 10-15k for a 200mile range compact car. They're tiny little underpowered econoboxes with 80mph top speeds and 13 second 0-60mph accelerations. still great for a daily driver though.
See that’s my thing. I don’t need a luxury car. Just something to get me to work and around town every day.
Well in the UK the MG 4 costs £26,995 for the base spec with a range of over 200 to 300 miles and useful features like V2L. For 300 to 400 miles it's £36,495. These are cheaper than the Model 3 which starts at £39,990. Performance starts at 7.5 seconds to 60, and as low as 6.1 seconds depending on spec. Max speed is 100 to 112 mph.
That’s all I need.
Think there's an element of the fact Tesla stock are overpriced catching up on them. They've had a cushy position but other manufacturers have caught up with them, particularly Chinese ones.
Cheap BYG EVs have already taken over Asia and some parts of EU. Decent quality too.
I'm in New Zealand. I see more BYD electric vehicles than i do teslas now.
BYD looks like a EV I would buy. It's an electric vehicle. That's it. No computers. No 50 thousand cameras etc.. it's just a fucking car with a lot of batteries.
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"In a world filled with newfangled gizmos and touchscreens... one company will have the courage... to keep things... simple."
I already want to buy it. Expectations are so low really - like, does it have a volume knob for the radio? Can I turn the blower and heat up or down without scrolling through a menu system? Sold!
Coming soon to a car lot near you!
I hope so! I was imagining a future with a car after market like Cuba. For those of us that don't want to have to sign into an account to drive a damn car.
> I was imagining a future with a car after market like Cuba. But I don't want to replace my engine with one out of a forklift because that's all that exists.
Nope, that's headed for my driveway!
It's already a trend among car manufacturers to go back from an "all touchscreen" solution to a mix of tactile buttons and touchscreens. It's based on strong customer feedback and actual data on UI timing and mental load while driving. Tesla's approach is soon going to look antiquated and awkward.
Also, maybe, reacting to the incredible surge is pedestrian vehicular deaths around sunset when traffic is high and visibility low. Distracted drivers are an epidemic.
"It doesn't take a genius to keep it simple."
This is GOLD
“Just a fucking car. Runs on electricity. Gets you from A to B.” Want a status symbol? Go fuck yourself. That’s the ad we are seeking.
“It probably won’t try to fucking kill you” -BYD
"we won't drive you into a parked ambulance" - BYD
The guys name is [Redd Pepper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N5l0sgPP5k) ;) edit: (or, if you're of a different generation, Don LaFontaine, thanks [IsThatAll for pointing this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/195s29u/comment/khpf0wh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
> * His name is Redd Pepper, see below. Redd is certainly a current voice over artist who could do the job, but the real movie guy voice was Don LaFontaine. Don did over 5000 movies (and many hundreds of thousands of other credits) by the time he passed in 2008. If you heard a movie trailer the last 50 years, there is a good chance it was Don https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPMvj_xejg
This actually does appeal to me. I am pretty utilitarian when it comes to vehicles , so this pitch would interest me. Less shit to break, easier and cheaper repair costs, increased reliability, etc.
100% this. I want something that gets me where I’m going reliably, safely, and economically. I don’t want the fancy overpriced features and functions that inevitably break, cost a fortune to repair, and double the price of the car.
Reminds me of that tweet >>My Tesla just got an update to the automatic windshield wipers. Five years after purchase and the car is still getting better. Because of AI. >My windshield wipers turn on when I hit the button."
It astounds me the amount of shit, even in my cheap ass fiesta that I’m not even 100% on what it even does. Meanwhile, the one damn thing I’d like it to do effectively, connect to my phone and play what I want is always a pain.
Couldn't agree more. When I found out that you can only activate the window wipers on the touch screen I was out on Tesla. When it starts raining while you're driving and visibility becomes an issue the idea that you have to navigate a touchscreen to turn on window wipers is crazy to me.
What the fuck, is this real? It should be absolutely mandatory that safety-critical systems can be operated without taking hands off the wheel and eyes off the road. Stuff like wipers, high beams, indicators, horn etc. Ideally the precise *way* of operation should be standardised too (like indicator/wiper stalks pretty much converged to a common design), but that's a further step. I can't even imagine buying a car that won't let me wipe the windshield on demand, that's crazy and could cause a crash if the automatic system doesn't detect crap obscuring my vision.
Take my money
Best slogan since *Hot Pocket*
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not. I’d love to see how that tests out.
You are not the first and certainly won't be the last person asking for a freaking *normal car*. We don't need a fancy spaceship, stop pushing those completely outlandish designs.
Yes but profit! Fancy cars=higher profit margins
To be completely fair, some of the new features are legitimate and compelling. I would kill for a rear camera on my current car. Lane assist would also be helpful because people tend to love to drive in my blind spot during my commute. The rest? Chuck it. If you can run cyberpunk in a car, you’ve lost the plot.
rear cameras have been mandatory on all new cars for years now.
And you can buy complete kits for it with screen and all for like 50 bucks on eBay if you want to add one.
Getting a Toyota Corolla equivalent of an EV would be great. Most ppl just want a car to get them from point a to b, has AC, working sound system and air bags. Just made it simple, reliable and be able to charge from your garage
>I would kill for a rear camera on my current car You don't need to go that far. You can buy a backup camera kit for $50.
I would kill for 50$
I have a toyota hybrid at the moment. Seriously considering the dolphin or seagull from BYD in a year or two for the same reason you just listed. It's a car that runs on electricity, I don't need self driving features or 1000hp equivalent motors. I just want a comfortable cheap car to drive without using fossil fuels. 99 percent of new zealands electricity supply is from renewable resources to. We aren't using fossil fuels to create the electricity.
>99 percent of new zealands electricity supply is from renewable resources to. We aren't using fossil fuels to create the electricity. For anyone curious it is more like 85%: [New Zealands eletricity mix](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-prod-source-stacked?country=~NZL) and NZ hasn't even really bothered much to move to clean electricity. NZ is perfect for hydro, geothermal, wind and solar power. It makes no sense to keep buying petrol from overseas.
85% is a lot more than bothered. And there are national security arguments to keeping as many energy types open for the long term. The infrastructure needed to import liquid gas are expensive, slow to build, and require pretty constant maintanace. Having those capabilities open while only having 10% of your energy use being natural gas, if applied to the entire world, would be significant enough that global warming wouldn't even be a conversation anymore
I wanted the 2024 Prius with new design, they were sold out for the longest and dealers charging $15k or more over sticker smh
That's my biggest gripe all alone. I want a normal vehicle, but electric powered. Just basic Toyota Corolla, normal door handles, single pane glass, just all the normal stuff. If my door handle gets damaged, I don't want to spend $1500-3000 for a new motorized door handle that freaking pops out when you walk up to it. Stop over complicating things... Yeesh.
yep 20k sedan / hatch with 200 mile range is my dream ev no need for 0-60 in blazing speed, no need for auto pilot that don't work or tries to kill you, no need for screens out of the wazoo just a ev that is cheap to buy, cheap to run, and have enough range for in city shit because I can rent or use another gas car for trips.
It's here and it's called the Chevy Bolt. Federal tax break gets you close to 20k, any state incentives you qualify for could get you lower.
Chevy Bolt has been discontinued. RIP.
I'm not sure the Bolt qualifies for the tax incentives in 2024. Plus iirc GM halted production of the Bolt.
That's what I want. Simple. Something to get from point A to point B. That's all I need. Are they available yet in the US?
Honest to god question, what's wrong with the Chevy Bolt? It's at a fantastic price point and is basically the poster child for a reasonably built economy EV with all the bells and whistles you would expect from a modern day car.
I'm in Australia and BYD are still pretty rare to see, not as much as they were say 12 months ago but feels like every second car is a Tesla (they're not, but they are everywhere). Is there a reason they are popular in NZ?
They’re popular in NZ because the last govt conveniently set the threshold for getting an EV rebate/subsidy equals to the price of a base model Tesla, so everyone who bought a Tesla received a subsidy
And there are a ton of Tesla’s in New Zealand, from there originally but have lived in Europe the last 6-7 years. I was visiting NZ this time last year and I was shocked how many Teslas I saw compared to what I see in Europe.
I saw some in Mexico City. Some tubers and some big delivery trucks.
China nailed it. Why can't I buy an EV in the US that doesn't have all the stupid bells and whistles. I don't want a super computer with a touch screen and a hundred cameras. I just want an affordable all wheel drive EV.
That's also why Singapore spurned Tesla last mid-decade when the latter came wooing. Years later, Elon & his media supporters tried to spin it as the country not supporting EVs. But Singaporeans tend to be very pragmatic & noted in Parliament that Tesla was positioning itself as high-performance & high-end, & what they really want is sensible car technology for the mass market.
Eloon's supports all over this thread trying to tell me why I want a super computer in my fucking car lol. Hey assholes we get it, you own TSLA stock. Nobody cares fuck off now.
Me too. I don;'t need all of that nonsense. I have my phone for podcasts or music. Just get me where I need to go without fossil fuels (or from the electricity from a clean power plant) and I'm happy.
I just don't understand any sort of tech stocks anymore. Tesla has always been overpriced so I've never jumped on the bandwagon and then their stock just kept going up and up anyway.
It’s not even a tech stock. The real only tech thing is full self driving and that doesn’t work.
Goes to show how made up the stock market truly is. Reminder that the metaverse was supposed to be a multi billion dollar industry disruptor.
Yep--this is the main issue. Tesla's stock valuation is basically a "gamble" that it will some day capture basically the entirety of a new market--fully autonomous cars. If investors begin to suspect Tesla is just going to be a "successful auto manufacturer", then its valuation is many times beyond what is considered reasonable for that. Car makers are pretty predictable entities with relatively low margins, the more Tesla looks like a "car maker" and not some sort of speculative unicorn that is going to dominate a yet-to-exist market, the more overvalued it will look. That being said, it isn't the same thing as saying Tesla is "bad" or headed for ruin--Tesla's share price could crater down to earth, and it would still be a viable business. It is just priced massively above what it should be in terms of its stock price *if* it is just a regular automaker. One can look at the share price of companies like Ford / GM / Stellantis / VW etc for a baseline of what a typical carmaker should look like in terms of stock valuation.
Tesla‘s car business has lost any kind of uniqueness and it’s clear Tesla will not dominate all car markets but the fast charging network is still by far the best in US and EU. If anyone could compete (maybe Chinese companies with billions of government money or an alliance of European car makers with EU money) then I’d say Tesla will face some truly hard times… but for now they got a really good position with the chargera
How exactly are they monetizing having the best charging network? In the U.S. they have agreed to open a lot of them up to competitors to qualify for (a one time) subsidy from the Feds, and they did similar in Europe in exchange for a paltry $150m payment. If anything they probably should have kept the network closed as long as possible, it erodes their competitive advantage that they have opened the network in their two largest markets. On top of that, I think people dramatically overestimate the value in being the company that controls the charger network. How many automakers invested in running their own gas filling stations? Basically none of them. That is essentially the same business as running an EV charger, it isn't a high margin business--and it also isn't actually a core part of automaking. Tesla *had* to build out a charging network to build out a market for its cars, but most likely as the market matures none of the automakers will *want* to run their own charging network, for the same reason automakers largely never wanted to run their own gas stations--it isn't actually a high margin business. (Even the oil companies that used to own filling stations in a form of vertical integration, have mostly spun off their branded filling stations as separate entities--it is a lot more profitable to drill for oil than to run gas pumps.)
E-Loon turning on his Liberal consumer base could not have helped.
Maybe internationally, but current US Domestic Policy means that Tesla is under no threat at home from the Chinese manufacturers. Sure, a BYD Seagull or whatever would destroy a Model 3 in a free market but they're illegal to import - and I imagine Tesla/GM/Ford/etc will spend heavily to keep it that way.
>BYD Seagull Fuck.. Now I want one.
Yeah I also want to fuck a seagull
Steven Seagull will beat you up
Are you Nikola Tesla?
Down horrendous
>BYD Seagull $10-13k for this car. USD. Sounds like it would certainly help with inflation
Yeah. And the Musk’s shine has worn off. One just can’t run a billion dollar company into the ground in a public and manic way and still be called a genius.
It's the most overvalued entity in the history of humanity.
Dutch Tulip Mania.
*Bitcoin has left the chat*
FFS, can we PLEASE ban linking to paywalled articles? If the average Redditor won't be able to read it, it doesn't belong on Reddit.
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If I could read I would be offended
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Here ya go :D https://archive.ph/IjAag
Same article without the Bloomberg paywall: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-gets-94-billion-reality-133000964.html
I would buy any EV that's not a Tesla after all of Musk's antics.
I bought a Bolt EUV this week. I think I paid $22k after all the incentives. Musk's bullshit was definitely a factor in choosing not to do business with Tesla. EDIT: For those curious, you get a $7500 rebate off the price at sale. You may also qualify for more off depending on other factors. I didn't qualify for state incentives, but first responders, medical workers, etc. get discounts. I think I got something like $1200 off from being a medical worker. $500 from GM and basically no docking fee from my dealership. I can't remember exact amount, but it dropped the price dramatically.
How do you like it so far? I’ve heard the Bolt EUV is actually very nice for the price!
Bolt owner, and while there are things that scream "budget" (such as the flooring) The car is pretty solid. it still has lots of buttons and not all touch screen, and is very responsive. the only complaint I have is all GM future cars ditching Android and car play
I work for GM and have no idea why they decided that was a hill they want to die on. As a consumer it makes absolutely no sense. I was strongly considering trading in my current Equinox for an EV version in a few years but not if they don’t have CarPlay anymore. It’s so stupid Edit: Well, I have an idea. But it’s rooted in capitalistic cynicism.
> Edit: Well, I have an idea. But it’s rooted in capitalistic cynicism. Capitalists don't get rich pursuing romantic ideals.
Easier to implement subscriptions when you own all the software.
And they will die on it. You either have to offer CarPlay or you need to be as good as tesla. Rivian is taking the latter approach and to pull it off you have to be nimble AF and have outstanding software designers - even they may not succeed on that mission. GM is the polar opposite of nimble and having good designers.
I actually prefer buttons and not touch screen because i need to know what it is im touching when im doing 80 on the freeways.
everyone does.
Similarly, I know I'm a big outlier but I prefer my beer cold, my food fresh, and my women with all their teeth.
>my women with all their teeth You have been banned from /r/Alabama
/r/unpopularopinion /s
Bought a Bolt EUV 2023 last March. Great vehicle for the price. The DC "fast charging" isn't *fast* though, so not great for road-trips, while still do-able. I'd recommend the car for sure.
We've put 12K miles on our 23 Bolt EUV since last May and it's been a great vehicle for us so far. No issues thus far and it's been on 2 or 3 longer trips that were around 400 miles round trip. As said many times, it's fast charging speed isn't so great but when you only need to make 1 fast charge stop it's perfectly fine and we just eat while it charges or walk around the town we're in for a bit. Almost all the charging is at home and at various L2 chargers where we go, it's only been fast charged maybe 4 times. In the cold winter weather we can still get 160-175 miles of range easy with keeping the heater on and driving like we would in our ICE vehicles. Very happy with it overall and for our family it's the goto vehicle for 99% of our running around town. Our other family vehicle is a gas guzzler and good on long trips so we've got our bases covered.
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I said something similar to a coworker yesterday. EVs are amazing if you can charge at home or work with a Level 2 charger. Without those? Not great. Better DCFC is not a solution to the charging issue of EVs. The gas station mentality kind of belongs in the past. I have been charging with a 120v outlet until my Level 2 gets installed. It's acceptable, but I am looking forward to that install.
I love it. I love the instant torque and all the tech on board. It's a joy to drive. I also like it's much smaller than my last vehicle and is easier to park. I don't think I would want to go back to an ICE car after trying an EV. The fast charging is not great, but it fits my needs as a commuter. I would probably opt for something with faster charging speed if I wanted to travel. Chevy has their new offerings, but they're very large and expensive. The Blazer apparently has issues. The Nissan Ariya looks nice, but I chose not to go for it due to the high price. Hyundai and Kia don't sell their EVs here where I live. I got $7500 off instantly, $500 off for being a healthcare worker, and a $1000 credit for a home charger. I got a cheaper docking fee from $699 (I think) to $75 at my dealership since I worked in healthcare. I think it came out to around $24k brand new when I signed the paper.
I love people saying “I’ve had no issues in my 2 years of ownership” God i hope so.. 2 years is nothing
Yeah. I’d be annoyed if my car had issues in the first two years. I expect ten years out more out of a car. My current is almost 14 years old and still going strong.
tender long fertile melodic support concerned chunky scarce hard-to-find joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can tell you it is. I had a Chevy Sonic and in the second year the 3rd gear went out. Chevy had the car for almost two months while i drove a ugly gold Malibu covered in stains. When i got my car back the shifter was fucked up, my steering wheel was cut up by a knife or something and there was scratches all over it. Fair to say i got a very good trade in on a new car at their dealership when it was all done with. Last time i ever do business with those inbred halfwits
Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Chevy and Ford all make better quality EVs than Tesla now, and have the advantage of years of learning how to make cars that actually meet safety regulations.
This is the point I make repeatedly. Tesla is what happens when computer designers build a car. You get a great computer and an iffy car.
It's the charging network though. Teslas is miles ahead of competition there, and in any other ev id have serious range anxiety
I have a theory that Tesla’s lasting legacy won’t be its cars, but its charging network. If I were them, I’d sell my auto tech to manufacturers and run the charging network.
The fact that your country has let corporations split up *electricity* by brand is fucking ridiculous. In my country I can charge my VW at any supercharger, and the teslas can charge on any normal fast charger. All because of regulations implementing a standard plug and charging voltage.
It's not that they let them, it's that other companies didn't want to use Tesla charging system because at first they were jerks about it and wanted to charge. Now our govt has actually created reasons to share and Tesla tech is now open and free and many companies will use it. So the next version of evs will be ALOT more interchangeable to charging standards. It's ALOT like VHS and betamax... There were 2 standards, and the market sorted it out
And flashy features that make great clickbait on social media, but don't actually improve the driving/ownership experience in any substantial way.
And a windshield rain sensor that for most cars costs $8, but after cutting-edge research and development, now costs only $500.
Teslas are so bad at sensing rain. I make sure my cameras are always clean, but it will still wipe every time a shadow passes over the windshield on a sunny day.
Musk opening his big mouth year after year have definitely steered many people away from anything Tesla related as it’s associated with him.
This. I used to really like and admire the guy (even when I never understood his vision of Mars) however he used to be successful and non-political. But then he has started to open his political big mouth and I believe he never thought that would affect him but he is very wrong. I still believe he might be able to pull off the self-driving vehicles but he needs to keep his mouth shut and focus on engineering and managing his companies.
>I still believe he might be able to pull off the self-driving vehicles That dream is dead. Statistically, a computer is a safer driver than most people. But there is an element of trust required in the product and the company making it. Anything with the Musk brand has become synonymous with his politics. We just don't/can't trust the man anymore.
>Statistically, a computer is a safer driver than most people. Those statistics are highly dubious and full of mathematical bias. For example, people are more likely to use self-driving mode in conditions that are less dangerous to begin with. So is self-driving the cause of low accident rates, or is low accident rates the cause of self-driving? And that's a best case scenario, assuming that they don't go out of their way to fudge the numbers.
Was gonna buy a Y, but I can’t stand Musk. Like it or not, there’s no separating Musk from a Tesla. If you buy a Tesla, it will be assumed you have no problem with his bullshit. Bought an Audi instead.
EV winter = selling only double the amount cars than last year instead of triple the amount cars.
And this is based on a few days of Tesla’s stock price dropping and nothing to do with EV sales…
I took the headline more in the general climate of "declining EV sales", the media likes to harp on about in recent weeks. When "declining" is in all actuality sales still going up massively, just not as much as they used to. It doesn't say "Tesla winter", but "EV winter", afterall. The article seems to allude to this as well.
The EV Winter is dealers punking the Big Three. They don't want to sell EVs.
Yeah this is a veeeery dogshit article
Heh... most of Musk's wealth is just Tesla paper.
I will never hesitate to dunk on Elon, but pretty much every extreme wealthy person has their wealth tied in one source, Bezos, Gates, Cook, Zuck..etc. Elon is even more diversified though, SpaceX is at $180B and he has 42% of the company, so even if he had 0 in Tesla he'd still have $75B tied into SpaceX which can explode further if they go public.
Absolutely the man is never going to be close to poor, but we are still talking about a drop from $220+ billion to $75 billion. It's a start.
Hey, he made billions from twitter…
True, Musk's investment in Twitter is now worth something like $15 billion! Impressive! (Just ignore how much he paid for it...)
How do you make $17 billion from Twitter? Start with $44 billion and run it into the ground.
Disappear lol
That was just mean. Lol
That wasn't mean, that was just a plain old orbital bombardment.
38% growth YoY "EV winter" Maybe it's winter for Detroit automakers, but it sure isn't winter for Tesla and BYD
Also worst ever first nine days of the year for the stock. How is that a huge deal? Stock goes up, stock goes down, that’s just the stock market.
Tesla will suffer from Elons antics outside of that company, and their belif that they can import shitty american non-union standards to Europe.
The Norwegian and other Scandanavian unions binding together against him scared the shit out of Elmo so much that he announced raises for his US factory workers. I hope the UAW unionizes Tesla.
Thats is nice! What the workers should do is to unionize.
Short of $9.00 gas, I think hybrids take off in my region first. Right now the most commonly sold cars are Dino-burning crossovers, AWD, or 4x4. The inside of the cab may be -15 to 15F several months a year. That is a ton of juice to heat on top of diminished returns on the power unit in the extreme cold. As other’s have pointed out the “we’ll charge it at work” doesn’t work at most jobs. You are in the back of a gigantic parking lot. “Well then you just run a 500 foot extension cable from your apartment to your Car, just reel it in every morning” also comes across as a joke or insult to the person you are trying to persuade.
I was never a fan of Tesla, but Musk's behaviour has cemented my disinterest in any Tesla product.
I have no issues with BYD, but I can't help but laugh that the same people bitching that Tesla should unionize so their employees can fight for better pay, have zero issues with BYD who can only afford to make EVs for so cheap because of the pittance they pay to line workers in China.
The cars are subsidized by the Chinese government.
I’ve got to think that Elon Musk alienated a decent-sized chunk of the affluent, eco-aware market when he unnecessarily outed himself as a hard right winger. He certainly alienated me and I was quite impressed with the Model S.
Is there an EV that can survive Canadian winters? I think we saw -40 temperatures this weekend 😞
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Yeah, I used to want a Tesla. Now I think people who are driving them are dude bro douches. Maybe not fair, but blame Musk.
Same, and I know a couple of others who feel the same way. I'd love to get an electric car, but I'll be damned if that car is going to be a Tesla. The whole thing is so incredibly stupid--he's selling a product that liberals should love and conservatives have very vocally said they hate, and... he does everything he can to make potential buyers (liberals) loathe him. It's so unbelievably stupid it boggles my mind.
It actually all makes sense when you realize musk is just a rich idiot con artist. I mean I fell off the musk train with Hyperloop - that was really insane and fruitless.
I’m getting 50 mpg in my Camry hybrid and I don’t have to plug it in. Not sure EV is the move quite yet.
https://archive.is/LXiar
2019 model 3 here, good good, more competition so shit gets cheaper for us too All in all, back in the day, there were other EVs, but nothing came close in terms of range and looks of the model 3, and since I've did my research on Tesla back in 2013 and it looked promising then, natural choice. But Muskyboi there certainly had to open his mouth instead of improving their build quality, get fukt, maybe now fire gets lit under his ass
I hate the fact that less expensive cars and higher worker pay are presented as causes for the stock price tragedy, instead of the wins for regular people they actually are.
I don't think these articles really identify the big issue: Elon Musk. There are many many many people interested in EVs but won't touch a tesla because Musk is what he is. Tesla has a Musk issue and they really need to solve it.