>The child was safely removed from the car after firefighters used an ax to smash through a window. But the issue raises concerns about why there isn’t an easy way to open the car from the outside when its 12-volt battery — the one that powers things like its door locks and windows — loses power.
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>The car’s owner, Renee Sanchez, was taking her granddaughter to the zoo, but after loading the child in the Model Y, she closed the door and wasn’t able to open it again. “My phone key wouldn’t open it,” Sanchez said in an interview with Arizona’s Family. “My car key wouldn’t open it.” She called emergency services, and firefighters were dispatched to help.
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>It is possible to open doors in a Model Y if you’re inside the vehicle when it has no power; there’s a latch to open a front door and a cable to open a back door. But that wasn’t an option for the young child, who was buckled into their car seat while Sanchez was stuck outside the car. You can jump-start a dead Tesla to be able to get into it, but it can be a complex process.
I'm glad that the person had the presence of mind to call emergency services, and that there ultimately was a solution to get the toddler out of the vehicle in the Arizona sun. This raises some of the issues around the reliance on electrical systems for more basic functions like doors though. Electronics are nice to have, but it's also useful to have a mechanical or manual way to operate critical equipment and the like.
I have seen two pictures of cybertrucks on tow trucks with severed charging cables still attached because of the inability to release the cable from the truck when it came time to tow.
Maybe they didn't know about the pull cord in the rear that manually disconnects the charger. Not a fan, just saying there is supposedly a solution to that.
Elon and tesla would sued to oblivion if a kid dies because there is no safety mechanism to open the door. Surprised that made it through safety checks, IIHS needs to get involved now
Proper fishing line is stupid fucking strong, actually. It can handle hundreds, if not more than a thousand pounds of peak weight. Some fishes are heavy and strong.
[An article about that,](https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36274/tesla-model-y-owners-find-cooling-system-cobbled-together-with-home-depot-grade-fake-wood) if anyone is interested.
"parts from home depot" really doesn't cover what an **awful hack job** they actually shipped in customers cars.
"parts from home depot" can mean, like, I don't know - machine screws. Not great if they weren't "automotive grade" but what the fuck does that really even mean, if it'll hold a washing machine motor together at 4,000 RPM it's probably fine to hold some dashboard panels in place.
But no, that would have made some kind of sense. Maybe.
These fucks bought *faux wood trim paneling* and used it to [**zip tie the cooling system together**](https://i.imgur.com/FyA4ISF.jpeg).
Even if it's "fine" and "within spec", I genuinely don't care. No. This makes me so irrationally upset, just isn't something you do with a new car that costs $60,000...
Exactly. You’d never see garbage like that on literally any of the other automakers vehicles. But somehow it’s okay because Tesla/elon did it. Techbros will never accept that their messiah is a grifter
The pull cord is actually garbage. Multiple people have complained it breaks after 1 use. For whatever reason they used a janky ass wire as the pull, and not something more substantial.
Likely a no-effort response to compliance, much like the over the air updates Tesla has quietly issued after their autopilot killed people. Either that or the 'Ship it if it starts' attitude Musk has installed at Tesla.
He paid OSHA fines for having red stripes on steps instead of yellow (which is what the law stipulates) in one of his factories because he wanted to keep a red/black aesthetic like a 10 yr old.
can you open the tailgate without power? not sure if it's just a manual latch or requires vehicle power. you can only access that pull cord after opening the tailgate
I mean Mitch McConnell's billionaire sister in law just died because she drunkenly reversed her Tesla into the water and couldn't get out, so if anyone was going to sue to make them change it was probably people with limitless money.
> Maybe they didn't know about the pull cord in the rear that manually disconnects the charger.
There is no such thing. At least not on Model Y. The pull cord is just an additional electronic input to release the electric latch.
It's mind-numbongly stupid.
Also you can't even get into the rear hatch when the battery is dead.
These may have been Emergency Plugs, that get plugged in by emergency service or the towing company. They simulate being plugged to a real charger to keep the EV in forced parking mode besides other things. They look like chopped off charging cables.
A lot of people don't realize, but it's not just Cybertrucks anymore. Lots of newer vehicles are being made that have laminated glass (rather than just tempered glass). And it's much harder to break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=larRnOwYmkk
for added clarity, all cars have laminated glass in the windshield (otherwise a small impact could make it completely shatter while driving). What's new is cars with laminated glass on the side windows
if there is a kid inside the car, and a fire truck shows up to help, it will make fuck all difference what the glass is made of.
they might also be willing to preserve the glass and just rip the entire door off.
But you might not be able to get an emergency service to come out all the time.
Not being able to break the glass or even open the door manually it's a huge safety issue
Firefighter checking in. The shit they are building cars out of are getting harder and harder to deal with. The frame of the car is using high tech metals that some of our older equipment isn’t strong enough for, and it’s not in the budget to regularly buy new rescue equipment so we improvise. Could we probably chainsaw or rotary saw our way through unbreakable glass, probably, but it won’t be pretty. We also have to think about. The safety of the kid inside. Will the flying debris hurt the kid? I would much rather car companies put some kind of physical back up system in that we can manipulate.
Our Ioniq 5 doors can be opened with a dead battery, there is even a manual door lock on the driver's door like any other car then can be unlocked with a key.
I mean it's not like there's a relatively simple and reasonably secure manual method for keeping a door from opening... Maybe one that uses a specially shaped piece of metal...
Nah, nothing like that exists at all.
Why can't manufacturers just put a damn key on at least one of the doors a good old mechanical key lock that overrides the door latch on that door.
*I would much rather car companies put some kind of physical back up system in that we can manipulate.*
Where are the geniuses at NTSB? They specify nonsensical stuff all the time.
I can say that care are WAY safer than they were when I started my career. Wrecks that I would have been sure to kill people have people walking away without a scratch.
In most cases, it's all about kinetic energy. Part of what makes glass "unbreakable" or "bullet resistant" is its ability to absorb and distribute the kinetic energy of the projectile and slow it down enough to be "caught". To counteract this, you employ a method of piercing the glass that applies minimal kinetic energy, such as a diamond tipped drill bit, once pierced all the way through, breaking the rest of the window out becomes trivial.
Thats because bullet resistant glass is made of something like 20 layers of glass, laminated with plastic between each layer of glass. The window is at least 4 inches thick, minimum. The thicker the window the more bullet resistant it is.
Look at the president's limo when the door is opened and he's getting in or out of the limo. Look at how thick the windows are.
There is no getting around having super thick glass windows if you want to resist bullets. Its just how it works.
it’s not literally unbreakable, but there was the case of Mitch McConnells sister in law who died when her car went over a bridge partially because the firefighters took way more time than normal trying to break the window
Years ago a teenage friend of my son’s died that way. 4 kids in a car go over a bridge into a canal and the electronic/digital controlled doors and windows can’t be opened from the inside or out, by either the kids inside or the rescuers who dove in immediately. All of them died.
Those window breaking tools go flying when you crash. Often totally out of reach or difficult to use.
All cars should have manual override (or a manual option) for all doors, windows. Inside or out. Batteries die. Floods happen, overheating in cars happens.
And digital/electronic locks aren’t preventing theft at all, in fact they make cars easier to steal.
Regardless no one should have to bury a loved one over lack of a basic safety feature.
I was in an accident a few months ago and the battery vaporized on impact. In my Tacoma there is a manual override to unlock the doors. But with all the curtain airbags covering the doors I couldn’t see it and I’ve never actually had to open the doors manually while they are locked from the inside without power. It was actually terrifying when someone yelled fire and we couldn’t get the doors open.
When I replaced that vehicle one of the things on my list was doors that could open atleast easily without power… it’s standard on all modern cars to use electricity to open locked doors. Some brands have more simple manual overrides than others but yeah it’s not just evs
This is why I am against electronic parking brakes and steer by wire. There should always be a simple mechanical backup that will function even if the engine and/or electronics fail.
> Always. It doesn’t have to be a perfect solution. But simple, safe, backups should be mandatory.
Thank You, I don't understand how this sentiment isn't voiced more in this thread. There are more words wasted on breaking glass, and less about mandatory manual fail safes.
> Those window breaking tools go flying when you crash. Often totally out of reach or difficult to use.
It's worse than that - many modern cars including Teslas use laminated double pane glass that cannot be broken using those tools. You need a powered window cutting saw to slice through the glass to get through it.
She didn't go over a bridge, she drove into the lake on her property because she was shitfaced and didn't want to walk home despite being way too drunk to drive.
Tesla's design is complete shit, but she was dead well before emergency services arrived. She was driving drunk (3 times the legal limit, visibly struggling to walk straight going to her car on the ranch security footage) and reversed into a pond. Instead of calling 911, she called a friend at the ranch and nobody contacted the police for 13 minutes, 5 minutes after her line went dead from the car fully flooding. Emergency services arrived 11 minutes later. So she was dead well before LE was even on scene.
Firefighter here. Lemme at it.
Lots of stuff seems unbreakable. But I would bet $1000 that with my apparatus’ worth of tools, I could get through a cybertruck window in like, 5 minutes absolute tops.
More likely about 20 seconds. Pick-headed Axe is not always the answer. But is usually the question, and the answer is “YES.”
Failing that, we have hydraulic extrication tools, a K12 saw, sawzalls, hydraulic ram, a winch, glass breakers and cutters, and enough hand demo tools to arm a dark age infantry platoon.
And that’s without calling in the USAR (urban search and rescue) rig, which is a whole busload of specialized demo, extrication, and stabilization tools.
Hell, we could ignore the window entirely and still have both doors on one side off in 5 minutes. Give us 10-15 minutes, and we can have all the doors and the whole roof off.
TLDR: breaking things is fun, we are good at it, we have cool toys to make it better, and we practice it a lot. A cybertruck is a joke, not an obstacle.
Everything is breakable question is if it's breakable in an emergency with normal tools the emergency services or even normal people would have in a car?
The olden days you just lobbed a brick at it. Now you have to have some tools that barely anyone has on hand.
I’ve been an extrication instructor for a while now, and I don’t think it would be incredibly fast. Safety technology is outpacing rescue equipment technology and most FD’s can’t afford to regularly upgrade equipment. I don’t doubt we can get in, but it’s not the same as it was 20-30 years ago.
I was at a train station last week. There was a power cut, no biggie, trains kept running, analog clocks still worked, but the departure boards were out.
However, I couldn't get into the bathroom, as it had electronic locks. Annoying. Not life-threatening, but mechanical/analog backups are a _must_ in my opinion.
Agreed. Powered doors and locks are cool and convenient, but I think it’s time that federal regulations require all door, hood and boot latches to be accessible and operable mechanically as well.
Something all other car manufacturers do.
They might be hidden where you have to take a part of trim off to get to the key lock and the key is in the fob.
Once again Tesla acts new age and the future when they don't have any features that have been around for decades
Yep. My vehicle has that. A little piece of trim right behind the door handle comes off and there's a key hole to use the physical key that comes with the car!
Nope, not all. Mustang Mach E for example also has an electronic door.
If the battery is dead, you open a front cover to reveal two leads. You hook it up to a 12 V source (9 V works as well) and that'll unlock the frunk, which gives you access to the battery to remedy the dead battery situation.
I own a Model S. I HATE the electric door handles. I despise them. I want to murder them.
They are out of their minds to have designed something so stupid with no analogue alternative. If I could press an analogue button and they pop out for ease of use in case the electrical system fails for some reason, I wouldn't be in rage over how terrible they are.
I had to replace all 4 gen 1 door handles within 6 months of each other, because they all decided to break at once. Opening the doors from the outside became impossible for each failure. The cost of each? $600. For DOOR HANDLES.
Some features that have existed in cars for a long time just have no reason to be removed. Like a keyed door. And turn signal stalks, and windshield wipers with manual controls. And physical buttons.
My 2013 sedan has all electric everything. But you can pull the cover off the driver handle nub and insert a physical key. Auto manufacturers have long ago solved the problems Elon’s team is still iterating their way through.
They aren't a car company. They are a technology company. I don't say that as a compliment.
The needed safety, reliability, repairability, and longevity is completely different than what is acceptable for something like a phone. Even the worst traditional car companies recognize that.
If this had happened in rural Alabama at a state park, and EMS had taken the usual time to arrive (30-45mins is **not** uncommon), that child could have died.
That’s when hopefully someone grabs a rock and breaks the glass after 5-10 minutes of waiting (or whatever the actual margin is). I mean, it’s basically what EMS did in this case.
[There is one](https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_Y_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf). However from the guide it's not clear to me if it would have worked from the outside in this case because I don't know if the door was locked or not. However going a couple of pages down it shows a method to connect external power to the 12 volt system.
Notice how they give instructions n how to open the doors in all instances with and without power EXCEPT in instances where the doors are locked and you are outside the vehicle with no power. They separately tell first responders that in instances of crashes the 12v may disable, locked doors will not open, and “extraction may be required.”
Breaking a window is relatively common occurring in instances like this for other cars. I don’t expect my first responders to pull up a manual when there’s life at risk.
> where the doors are locked and you are outside the vehicle with no power.
Yeah, there's a reason for that, this would also be the condition for a criminal wanting to break into the car. You don't want the car to be able to be opened non-destructively when the doors are locked.
If the doors on most cars are locked, you'll have to break a window to get in after a crash, that's normal.
There's a manual handle on the inside, but I imagine it would be hard for a child to be guided through it's use.
Or even if they can’t read the written language it should be that plainly obvious for an emergency exit door or something. Simple pictures go a long way.
The emergency door release shouldn't be necesssry. It should be the same release as the regular one.
I genuinely hope that legislation catches up to this. Make a mechanical non-electric door release mandatory in all vehicles. It might not be cool and futuristic to pull a handle to unhook a latch, but in an accident nobody is thinking "man, I'm sure glad this car reminds me of speculative fiction"
The emergency release for the exterior door should always be a handle that you always use to open and close the doors in non-emergency situations. Anything else and you are over engineering the shit out of a system that is centuries old. Which if you are doing that you have to either be a genius (which they are not) or trying to prove a point (which is stupid when it comes to standard features like a door handle)
Yeah I don't see a reason for a button, except: it looks cool.
EDIT: The corvette latches are in the body instead of the door, so that's why it's electric.
It should be obvious too. Why there can't be manual door handles anymore I haven't a clue. You can easily have both type of mechanisms for the door. Not everything about a cars interior has to be about style and design. There are many things that people require for function
That's why newer cars have backseat reminders. It's also a good idea to read your car's manual. My car battery died and it doesn't have any visible key holes in the door. You have to take a plastic piece off to get to them.
Many years ago, when the C6 Corvettes were fairly new, my neighbor across the street locked himself in his C6.
I was sitting at home on a hot day when I kept hearing honking. I looked outside and realized it was coming from across the street. I ran over and he pointed at his bench in the garage, where his keys were. I unlocked it and he came bursting out of the car drenched in sweat and gasping for fresh air.
He hadn't had the car for very long. On that hot day, he went to get something out of the car, and he absent-mindedly closed the door and it locked. When he realized that he left his keys on the bench, he realized that he didn't know how to manually open the door and that the owner's manual was inside the house. It's a good thing that his horn still worked.
On a C8: Reach your door side hand down past your knee and it's a lever on the floorboard that you pull up. It has a yellow and black sticker on it with a door release picture. It's like the lever for opening a fuel door.
It's concerning to me that I'm learning that this issue is a problem with other modern car models as well from a reply in a reddit comment because I only ever see Tesla in the title when it comes to these articles.
It's like these manufacturers are purposely designing things in the worst possible way to look futuristic. Between this door issue & cramming all the controls into a giant tablet, I'm not sure I'm ever gonna want to buy an EV. I'm partial to Mazdas in part because of how they have physical controls in the center console for the infotainment system
My husband and I had different priorities when we were shopping for our EV. He was partial to Teslas, I to anything else. We went with a Nissan Ariya that I think has the best of both worlds. Enough tech to satisfy him but important mechanical things to satisfy me (like regular goddamn door handles).
They're cost saving measures. Just cramming a tablet into the center console is a lot cheaper than designing and manufacturing a full set of switches that are just going to connect to the same computer anyway.
For doors, it's a lot easier to design one electronic latch for all your cars and just wire it wherever it needs to go on each door panel than to fit a mechanical locking mechanism specifically for each door.
I used to be a field tech for a security company. One of the products we sold were door controllers. The kind like you badge in and out of or put in a code. Fire codes mandated that if that door was the only egress point it had to be fail-safe not fail-secure in the event of a power loss. This means that if the power goes out the door HAS to open and cannot remain locked.
That's a general statement but the entire point was in an emergency you didn't want to be fucking around with a locked door while in a panicked state. Or prevent emergency responders from being able to assist.
Yep. I worked security during a build out for a major company and when they were installing the badge systems I learned that. We had a few false fire alarms during construction. Whenever it went off I would hear an audible \*click\* noise from the doors unlocking.
They don't want to waste firefighter's time or to potentially trap someone in a burning building because of locked doors.
Also that flush door handle design can double as a swivel when the power goes out. Just push one edge and the other side pops out. I don't design cars, what do I know.
My wife accidentally locked our toddler in a Mercedes on a 95 degree day, and since we didn’t pay for their on-star whatever they refused to remote unlock it. Luckily cops got there in minutes and got into the car within a few more minutes with their balloon and hook gadget. Would have work just as well on a Tesla. There’s a manual door release in the front that’s easy to hook.
That should be a news story.
Mobile carriers are required to let you dial 911 for free. OnStar (or Mercedes or whatever) should be required to save your toddler from dying for free too.
It was a news story. Volkswagen refused to give the location of a carjacked car with an infant in the backseat because the owner didn’t pay for location services
In that scenario their standard procedure actually is to help regardless of the bill...but the person at Volkswagen picking up the phone did their own thing. Which I think speaks more of the combination of investing as little as possible in customer service with threatening employees harsh consequences for giving any revenue stream for free.
If I had to wager, it probably speaks more to the ridiculous goals the call center has set for those agents which creates a culture of feeling like they need to try and squeeze every sale out of every caller.
Yikes
"We'd happily help save your kid's life *if you bought our extra benefits package*. Unfortunately, you didn't, so good luck with the funeral arrangements." --Mercedes-Benz, apparently
From the [source article](https://www.azfamily.com/2024/06/20/toddler-trapped-car-when-tesla-battery-dies-scottsdale/):
> The 12-volt battery that powers the car’s electronics died without warning.
> Tesla drivers are supposed to receive three warnings before that happens, but the Tesla service department confirmed that Sanchez didn’t receive any warnings.
Tesla engineers had time to add a whoopee cushion feature, but failed to ensure a critical component was functioning. Real slick shit, Tesla.
I had this happen to me with my Model Y, no warnings, just dead one morning. Only had the car a year and a half - pretty frustrating! It took them days to fix it, with no loaners available.
I think they were just busy.
When the battery died, I had to use the emergency release to get out and since the battery was dead it couldn't move the window down the inch or so it needs to close the door.
When the tow truck came they put padding between the window and door frame, taped it secure and added some plastic sheeting for rain protection.
The driver said the hot weather in Florida was tough on the batteries and this happened routinely.
After all of this, I stopped by the Tesla shop to get something out of my car a couple days later, it hadn't moved from where the tow truck dropped it and the plastic sheeting was still in place.
For future reference, there are charging cables in the tow port in the front that you can use to jump start the 12v battery. The tow truck driver just clipped on a standard battery charger and the car came to life - lots of crazy error messages flashing and the door still wouldn't close. But perhaps if you are 100% locked out of the car, it's an option?
That's wild.
The battery went out on our 2018 Model 3 and the car just flashed an error up on screen that said features like the radio, bluetooth, and climate control wouldn't work until the 12v battery was replaced. I clicked a few buttons in the App and a Service Tech came out the next day and swapped it for free.
I had a different experience with our Nissan Leaf when the 12v died. The car would power on and AC, radio, etc all worked but the car refused to start. It just displayed a message about the 12v battery. I put it on a 12v charger and it allowed the car to start. I drove it up to O'Reily and swapped the battery out for $75.
The guy at O'Reily looked really confused when I said I needed a battery for my Leaf until I explained it was a regular 12v lead acid and not the lithium pack.
probably just because of wait time and not because it was difficult
it's a 10 minute fix, but all service is first come first served and if you want it done under warranty you're at their mercy
Predicting when a lead-acid battery will fail is difficult, and many other manufacturers fail to do this properly. Their latest models all have LFP batteries that should last 10+ years.
My dad likes to buy vehicles new, but he still manages to find models with roll down windows, manual locks, etc. He's an engineer with amazing repair skills, but he says it works fine & there's less to go wrong.
Funny enough I bought the same kind of vehicle as him used, with power windows & stuff. Well, when my driver's window switch failed he replaced it. Didn't even gloat about his philosophy being right!
At least if a window switch fails you can open the door at drive-thrus for a few weeks. If the key fob dies it can be costly but there's usually a backup keyhole in the door handle. But I think they've gone too far when the literal ability to enter your vehicle can fail. Maybe later this century if things get ultra reliable, but we're not there yet.
Our bmw i4 similarly went totally dead with no warning, wouldn’t open. Car was empty thankfully. Husband managed to get in but that was it, no lights etc. we got it towed and it worked fine at the dealership and they found nothing wrong. Pretty scary. (Edited - we have an i4 not an i3)
Same shit happened to our Ioniq 6 yesterday. 5 days not driven, 12V dead, no warnings... According to their software it actually went dead after 3 days parked. AAA refused to jump start EV and would only tow it. So I got the neighbors USB jump starter, let it "idle" for 1h. Pretty sure when I get the battery checked at the dealership they won't find anything wrong with it.
I think it's a software bug, because when I use the app or hit the API (for smart home integration) the car "turns on", with the recent heatwave that seems to trigger a bunch of fans to run for 20min... killing the tiny 12V rather quick. Sad to see that huge battery there not being able to power the basic car functions.
ETA: getting in the car took 1min, even with flush door handles the hidden key lock worked. Opening doors from inside and hood all worked manually. Trunk was a little tricky, charging port impossible. Jump start was like jumping an ICE car, although no cranking noise and "you can do it" cheers.
For the bolt there's a bit in the handle you have to remove, but it's not hard. I've never had to do it, but I've done it once just for practice in an emergency situation
My Chevy bolt has one too.
I fucking hate all doors with any motors or electronics in them. Mechanical doors essentially never fail.
Every sliding mini van door, hatchback, or electronic door I’ve used is just slower than a regular mechanism and is a total pain in the ass to use. Not to mention they’ll break if you try to push them while they’re doing their thing
only inside.
only the front doors. unless you can find the hidden manual cables behind the speaker grills or under the footwell carpet...
idiotic design. like most things tesla.
I have a Model Y and the lack of emergency door handles in the back worry me most. The [instructions](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html) on pulling up the mat under the door pockets and pulling on a tab would be impossible to explain to a kid in a crisis
> Note
> Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors.
Paid for emergency feature, a basic emergency feature that is fucking OPTIONAL
I had a Porsche Boxster that had a power hood latch, so if the battery died you couldn't open the frunk. Where the battery was located... All so the hood opener could feel more premium I guess? Good old mechanical systems work fine though...
Now imagine making that same choice for a door handle just so it can be "cool" and futuristic, so it's not just that you can't get into your frunk, you just can't get into the car at all.
My car has the battery in the trunk, which is only openable electronically
So if the battery dies, you have to either use the keys to open the drivers door, climb into the back seat, then crawl through the trunk and pull the internal release
Alternatively you can hook a boost pack up to the terminals under the hood. If the battery is just dead that's usually an option. But if it's something else wrong with the connection somewhere, then the trunk yoga is the only option.
The Tesla handle is pretty shit design. Aerodynamic, sure, but a pain to use even when it works (if your hands are full, forget it) and confuses virtually everyone. However, with more and more cars moving to a keyless design we’re going to see more of this happening if their 12v battery die while locked. It almost seems like we need some government involvement to enforce some minimum safety standards on door handle design so we don’t have to force entry in a worst case scenario.
Most door mechanisms mechanically unlock the door when the interior handle is pulled.
This is a solved problem that these electronic gizmos are needlessly reintroducing.
This might not be true of all cars, but all other keyless entry cars I've driven still have a physical lock and key. The key is tucked into the fob and the lock is usually hidden behind a removable panel on the handle.
Firefighter here, this is quite an overreaction. Access takes 30 seconds and doesn’t cause damage to the car, these guys just weren’t properly trained. Pop the circle panel on the front bumper, hook up a remote jump pack, which pops the frunk. Move the jump pack to the battery terminals in the frunk and everything powers right up. this type of design is becoming more common on all vehicles, not just EV’s or Teslas.
It should be required that all exterior doors have a primary mechanical latch (including on the inside. No push button release) for this reason (you can still have secondary electronic releases for things like trunks and hatches). And why you need a physical key on at least the driver's door and the trunk/hatch.
Gonna go ahead and say: manual things are totally cool too! Buttons. Levers. This computer car life is a nightmare. Just one huge screen… and no more buttons? Fuck this shit
There’s a battery connection behind a cover on the bumper. Connect a 12v jump pack battery there and you can open the frunk. From there use the jump pack on the battery. This is just another case of an owner not reading the manual.
I don’t know how Teslas pass safety test. They are trash with good batteries. They spend time adding fart sounds and shit instead of getting the cars safe and well built.
Some context for the non-Tesla owners in this thread (or people who didn't read the article).
The high voltage battery recharges the 12V battery. But the door locks, windows, and such, are only directly powered by the 12V battery for obvious reasons.
When the 12V battery dies, these features are physically stuck, but the car is not necessarily "dead". As long as the high voltage battery was not also dead, the owner should have access, via the phone app, to climate controls. So the child in the OP should not have been in any immediate danger. (But of course, I can hardly blame a parent for panicking.)
What you can do in this situation is open the small port on the front bumper and expose a red and black electrical lead. You can connect another vehicle's 12V batter to this to pop the "frunk". That exposes the 12V battery which can then be jumped like any other car's 12V battery. (The actual original article links to the user manual page for this on Tesla's website.)
If this person had been helped by firefighters instead of police, there is a higher chance they would have known about this. In the time it probably took them to tape and then break the window, the car could have been jumped with no damage.
That said, the child is safe and in the end that's what matters.
EDIT: In fairness to the complainers, while this situation is extremely rare, I do think a second, smaller, emergency 12V battery would be a good idea. But honestly, I think cases like this are probably much rarer than cases of people locking their keys in the car.
Why doesn’t a Tesla have a small solar panel to keep the 12v battery charged. I’ve heard of multiple problems around the battery running out of power. Seems like an obvious floor and an easy fix.
12v lead acid systems, even with trickle charging, can die unexpectedly. It has nothing to do with being charged and everything to do with the nature of lead acid batteries near end of life.
There used to be a concept where doors would fail safe. Buildings I have worked with electronic doors leave the doors unlocked when there is no power. Shouldn't this be a standard?
So like, what happens if you crash into a body of water and the car is submerged? Certain death? Im kinda assuming the battery would short in this scenario but maybe im wrong.
I don’t get how it is legal to have this
Imagine if a building couldn’t be opened because there is no electricity and everyone burn alive inside it
i mean hell it already happened for sure why are they not taking experience from it ??
how many people will die before tesla can be opened without electricty and a team of firefighters
This is why you shouldnt over complicate simple stuff like door handles. Every car should be required to have a manual lock as a back up for situations like this
And yet Tesla fanboys still defend the company for *hiding* manual release latches in Model Y for the doors. Or not even putting in any manual release latches in the Model 3 at all.
>The child was safely removed from the car after firefighters used an ax to smash through a window. But the issue raises concerns about why there isn’t an easy way to open the car from the outside when its 12-volt battery — the one that powers things like its door locks and windows — loses power. > >The car’s owner, Renee Sanchez, was taking her granddaughter to the zoo, but after loading the child in the Model Y, she closed the door and wasn’t able to open it again. “My phone key wouldn’t open it,” Sanchez said in an interview with Arizona’s Family. “My car key wouldn’t open it.” She called emergency services, and firefighters were dispatched to help. > >It is possible to open doors in a Model Y if you’re inside the vehicle when it has no power; there’s a latch to open a front door and a cable to open a back door. But that wasn’t an option for the young child, who was buckled into their car seat while Sanchez was stuck outside the car. You can jump-start a dead Tesla to be able to get into it, but it can be a complex process. I'm glad that the person had the presence of mind to call emergency services, and that there ultimately was a solution to get the toddler out of the vehicle in the Arizona sun. This raises some of the issues around the reliance on electrical systems for more basic functions like doors though. Electronics are nice to have, but it's also useful to have a mechanical or manual way to operate critical equipment and the like.
Imagine if it had the stupid ass cybertrucks unbreakable glass too. There is no safety or emergency response thought put into these cars.
I have seen two pictures of cybertrucks on tow trucks with severed charging cables still attached because of the inability to release the cable from the truck when it came time to tow.
Maybe they didn't know about the pull cord in the rear that manually disconnects the charger. Not a fan, just saying there is supposedly a solution to that. Elon and tesla would sued to oblivion if a kid dies because there is no safety mechanism to open the door. Surprised that made it through safety checks, IIHS needs to get involved now
I saw a guy testing it and it broke after working once.
Yeah, I saw a video of someone using the manual release pull. It looked like it was made from fishing line.
Fishing line is stronger than whatever string they used in the video.
Proper fishing line is stupid fucking strong, actually. It can handle hundreds, if not more than a thousand pounds of peak weight. Some fishes are heavy and strong.
There are many different strengths of fishing line. Elon probably cheaped out.
Colorado dental floss, more like it.
>Colorado dental floss That sounds like something I shouldn't Google while at work.
Dental floss is loaded with PFAS, and Colorado's outlawed it.
Is that all dental floss or just some new poisonous version? I guess I could Google this and not be so lazy...
It likely was. This is the same company installing parts from home depot on model 3s.
[An article about that,](https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36274/tesla-model-y-owners-find-cooling-system-cobbled-together-with-home-depot-grade-fake-wood) if anyone is interested.
"parts from home depot" really doesn't cover what an **awful hack job** they actually shipped in customers cars. "parts from home depot" can mean, like, I don't know - machine screws. Not great if they weren't "automotive grade" but what the fuck does that really even mean, if it'll hold a washing machine motor together at 4,000 RPM it's probably fine to hold some dashboard panels in place. But no, that would have made some kind of sense. Maybe. These fucks bought *faux wood trim paneling* and used it to [**zip tie the cooling system together**](https://i.imgur.com/FyA4ISF.jpeg). Even if it's "fine" and "within spec", I genuinely don't care. No. This makes me so irrationally upset, just isn't something you do with a new car that costs $60,000...
WOW. And it looks like they used a dull axe to cut the pieces! Should have gotten an actual saw while at Home Depot as well!
Their corporate credit card doesn’t have a high enough credit limit for both.
Exactly. You’d never see garbage like that on literally any of the other automakers vehicles. But somehow it’s okay because Tesla/elon did it. Techbros will never accept that their messiah is a grifter
that's a factory job ?! what the fuck lol
The pull cord is actually garbage. Multiple people have complained it breaks after 1 use. For whatever reason they used a janky ass wire as the pull, and not something more substantial.
Saved elon several cents per unit.
And a new cable is *only* $500 plus fitting fee with a mere 6-16 month wait!
I would bet you have to prepay for it too.
He's gotta pay for all those gift horses somehow.
I have no doubt it was added as a pissy response to being required to follow a safety law or something
Likely a no-effort response to compliance, much like the over the air updates Tesla has quietly issued after their autopilot killed people. Either that or the 'Ship it if it starts' attitude Musk has installed at Tesla.
It’s by design
Safety is Woke - Elon
I know people who unironically think this in the rural Midwest
Wouldn't be surprised if that's something he's stated in more than a few board meetings.
He paid OSHA fines for having red stripes on steps instead of yellow (which is what the law stipulates) in one of his factories because he wanted to keep a red/black aesthetic like a 10 yr old.
can you open the tailgate without power? not sure if it's just a manual latch or requires vehicle power. you can only access that pull cord after opening the tailgate
I mean Mitch McConnell's billionaire sister in law just died because she drunkenly reversed her Tesla into the water and couldn't get out, so if anyone was going to sue to make them change it was probably people with limitless money.
> Maybe they didn't know about the pull cord in the rear that manually disconnects the charger. There is no such thing. At least not on Model Y. The pull cord is just an additional electronic input to release the electric latch. It's mind-numbongly stupid. Also you can't even get into the rear hatch when the battery is dead.
This post was about the Y, but they were talking about the cybertruck in the previous commemts before my comment
You think Elon and Tesla would be sued into oblivion for one child dying… in this country?
These may have been Emergency Plugs, that get plugged in by emergency service or the towing company. They simulate being plugged to a real charger to keep the EV in forced parking mode besides other things. They look like chopped off charging cables.
A lot of people don't realize, but it's not just Cybertrucks anymore. Lots of newer vehicles are being made that have laminated glass (rather than just tempered glass). And it's much harder to break. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=larRnOwYmkk
for added clarity, all cars have laminated glass in the windshield (otherwise a small impact could make it completely shatter while driving). What's new is cars with laminated glass on the side windows
if there is a kid inside the car, and a fire truck shows up to help, it will make fuck all difference what the glass is made of. they might also be willing to preserve the glass and just rip the entire door off.
If they can't break a window, they'll happily peel the car apart like a tin can.
But you might not be able to get an emergency service to come out all the time. Not being able to break the glass or even open the door manually it's a huge safety issue
"Unbreakable". All glass is breakable, and I'd immediately trust the firefighters to know how to break it the fastest.
Firefighter checking in. The shit they are building cars out of are getting harder and harder to deal with. The frame of the car is using high tech metals that some of our older equipment isn’t strong enough for, and it’s not in the budget to regularly buy new rescue equipment so we improvise. Could we probably chainsaw or rotary saw our way through unbreakable glass, probably, but it won’t be pretty. We also have to think about. The safety of the kid inside. Will the flying debris hurt the kid? I would much rather car companies put some kind of physical back up system in that we can manipulate.
Our Ioniq 5 doors can be opened with a dead battery, there is even a manual door lock on the driver's door like any other car then can be unlocked with a key.
My matrix can be opened without the battery at all. It's almost like the simplest solution is the best sometimes.
I mean it's not like there's a relatively simple and reasonably secure manual method for keeping a door from opening... Maybe one that uses a specially shaped piece of metal... Nah, nothing like that exists at all. Why can't manufacturers just put a damn key on at least one of the doors a good old mechanical key lock that overrides the door latch on that door.
Not legally required. So therefore save 1 dollar per car!
*I would much rather car companies put some kind of physical back up system in that we can manipulate.* Where are the geniuses at NTSB? They specify nonsensical stuff all the time.
I can say that care are WAY safer than they were when I started my career. Wrecks that I would have been sure to kill people have people walking away without a scratch.
NTSB has no regulatory authority. They can't force anyone to do anything.
In most cases, it's all about kinetic energy. Part of what makes glass "unbreakable" or "bullet resistant" is its ability to absorb and distribute the kinetic energy of the projectile and slow it down enough to be "caught". To counteract this, you employ a method of piercing the glass that applies minimal kinetic energy, such as a diamond tipped drill bit, once pierced all the way through, breaking the rest of the window out becomes trivial.
Thats because bullet resistant glass is made of something like 20 layers of glass, laminated with plastic between each layer of glass. The window is at least 4 inches thick, minimum. The thicker the window the more bullet resistant it is. Look at the president's limo when the door is opened and he's getting in or out of the limo. Look at how thick the windows are. There is no getting around having super thick glass windows if you want to resist bullets. Its just how it works.
The "unbreakable" glass broke when it was announced. People who think you can make bulletproof glass that isn't 6 inches thick are delusional.
it’s not literally unbreakable, but there was the case of Mitch McConnells sister in law who died when her car went over a bridge partially because the firefighters took way more time than normal trying to break the window
Years ago a teenage friend of my son’s died that way. 4 kids in a car go over a bridge into a canal and the electronic/digital controlled doors and windows can’t be opened from the inside or out, by either the kids inside or the rescuers who dove in immediately. All of them died. Those window breaking tools go flying when you crash. Often totally out of reach or difficult to use. All cars should have manual override (or a manual option) for all doors, windows. Inside or out. Batteries die. Floods happen, overheating in cars happens. And digital/electronic locks aren’t preventing theft at all, in fact they make cars easier to steal. Regardless no one should have to bury a loved one over lack of a basic safety feature.
I was in an accident a few months ago and the battery vaporized on impact. In my Tacoma there is a manual override to unlock the doors. But with all the curtain airbags covering the doors I couldn’t see it and I’ve never actually had to open the doors manually while they are locked from the inside without power. It was actually terrifying when someone yelled fire and we couldn’t get the doors open. When I replaced that vehicle one of the things on my list was doors that could open atleast easily without power… it’s standard on all modern cars to use electricity to open locked doors. Some brands have more simple manual overrides than others but yeah it’s not just evs
I am so sorry that happened and glad that you survived and are ok!
This is why I am against electronic parking brakes and steer by wire. There should always be a simple mechanical backup that will function even if the engine and/or electronics fail.
Always. It doesn’t have to be a perfect solution. But simple, safe, backups should be mandatory.
> Always. It doesn’t have to be a perfect solution. But simple, safe, backups should be mandatory. Thank You, I don't understand how this sentiment isn't voiced more in this thread. There are more words wasted on breaking glass, and less about mandatory manual fail safes.
> Those window breaking tools go flying when you crash. Often totally out of reach or difficult to use. It's worse than that - many modern cars including Teslas use laminated double pane glass that cannot be broken using those tools. You need a powered window cutting saw to slice through the glass to get through it.
She didn't go over a bridge, she drove into the lake on her property because she was shitfaced and didn't want to walk home despite being way too drunk to drive.
Tesla's design is complete shit, but she was dead well before emergency services arrived. She was driving drunk (3 times the legal limit, visibly struggling to walk straight going to her car on the ranch security footage) and reversed into a pond. Instead of calling 911, she called a friend at the ranch and nobody contacted the police for 13 minutes, 5 minutes after her line went dead from the car fully flooding. Emergency services arrived 11 minutes later. So she was dead well before LE was even on scene.
Firefighter here. Lemme at it. Lots of stuff seems unbreakable. But I would bet $1000 that with my apparatus’ worth of tools, I could get through a cybertruck window in like, 5 minutes absolute tops. More likely about 20 seconds. Pick-headed Axe is not always the answer. But is usually the question, and the answer is “YES.” Failing that, we have hydraulic extrication tools, a K12 saw, sawzalls, hydraulic ram, a winch, glass breakers and cutters, and enough hand demo tools to arm a dark age infantry platoon. And that’s without calling in the USAR (urban search and rescue) rig, which is a whole busload of specialized demo, extrication, and stabilization tools. Hell, we could ignore the window entirely and still have both doors on one side off in 5 minutes. Give us 10-15 minutes, and we can have all the doors and the whole roof off. TLDR: breaking things is fun, we are good at it, we have cool toys to make it better, and we practice it a lot. A cybertruck is a joke, not an obstacle.
Everything is breakable question is if it's breakable in an emergency with normal tools the emergency services or even normal people would have in a car? The olden days you just lobbed a brick at it. Now you have to have some tools that barely anyone has on hand.
At least you don’t have to buy a casket if you get locked in your cybertruck and die.
In the words of Jerry Rig Everything. "Glass is Glass, and Glass Breaks"
Lol yeah we'll get that bitch broken incredibly fast. Can't wait to do extrication training on a Tesla
I’ve been an extrication instructor for a while now, and I don’t think it would be incredibly fast. Safety technology is outpacing rescue equipment technology and most FD’s can’t afford to regularly upgrade equipment. I don’t doubt we can get in, but it’s not the same as it was 20-30 years ago.
I mean, the jaws of life would still be effective against a cybertruck with unbreakable windows. Getting through the window isn’t the only option
I was at a train station last week. There was a power cut, no biggie, trains kept running, analog clocks still worked, but the departure boards were out. However, I couldn't get into the bathroom, as it had electronic locks. Annoying. Not life-threatening, but mechanical/analog backups are a _must_ in my opinion.
Agreed. Powered doors and locks are cool and convenient, but I think it’s time that federal regulations require all door, hood and boot latches to be accessible and operable mechanically as well.
Something all other car manufacturers do. They might be hidden where you have to take a part of trim off to get to the key lock and the key is in the fob. Once again Tesla acts new age and the future when they don't have any features that have been around for decades
Yep. My vehicle has that. A little piece of trim right behind the door handle comes off and there's a key hole to use the physical key that comes with the car!
Nope, not all. Mustang Mach E for example also has an electronic door. If the battery is dead, you open a front cover to reveal two leads. You hook it up to a 12 V source (9 V works as well) and that'll unlock the frunk, which gives you access to the battery to remedy the dead battery situation.
What is it with electric and not offering the very basic thing?
Tesla does have mechanical door openers, can a child operate them?
I own a Model S. I HATE the electric door handles. I despise them. I want to murder them. They are out of their minds to have designed something so stupid with no analogue alternative. If I could press an analogue button and they pop out for ease of use in case the electrical system fails for some reason, I wouldn't be in rage over how terrible they are. I had to replace all 4 gen 1 door handles within 6 months of each other, because they all decided to break at once. Opening the doors from the outside became impossible for each failure. The cost of each? $600. For DOOR HANDLES.
This highlights the importance of finding a reviewer you can trust. Not the easiest task with a product so entangled in identity politics.
Every car should have one door that is opened by a mechanical key. This is easily fixed with regulation.
Some features that have existed in cars for a long time just have no reason to be removed. Like a keyed door. And turn signal stalks, and windshield wipers with manual controls. And physical buttons.
My 2013 sedan has all electric everything. But you can pull the cover off the driver handle nub and insert a physical key. Auto manufacturers have long ago solved the problems Elon’s team is still iterating their way through.
They aren't a car company. They are a technology company. I don't say that as a compliment. The needed safety, reliability, repairability, and longevity is completely different than what is acceptable for something like a phone. Even the worst traditional car companies recognize that.
Our fucking regulators are asleep at the wheel. Tesla continues to exploit this. Turns out the billionaires won’t protect us.
This isn’t just Tesla though it happened with a corvette too. We need new regulations for electric blocks on cars Edit: locks not blocks
Axes are really underrated. An axe is a solution to almost any problem.
Axes. And duct tape.
Axes: for when someone isn't bleeding and they should be. Duct tape: for when someone is bleeding and they shouldn't be.
Both if you want an axe hand.
I'll throw in WD40 and most stuff gets done or unstuck.
Don't forget WD40.
Genuinely had this pop up at work the other day and the MD ruled it out. Apparently hunting down our problem clients is off the menu.
If this had happened in rural Alabama at a state park, and EMS had taken the usual time to arrive (30-45mins is **not** uncommon), that child could have died.
That’s when hopefully someone grabs a rock and breaks the glass after 5-10 minutes of waiting (or whatever the actual margin is). I mean, it’s basically what EMS did in this case.
"Remove the keyhole, this is a future car. Keys are obsolete." - Elon probably
[There is one](https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_Y_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf). However from the guide it's not clear to me if it would have worked from the outside in this case because I don't know if the door was locked or not. However going a couple of pages down it shows a method to connect external power to the 12 volt system.
Notice how they give instructions n how to open the doors in all instances with and without power EXCEPT in instances where the doors are locked and you are outside the vehicle with no power. They separately tell first responders that in instances of crashes the 12v may disable, locked doors will not open, and “extraction may be required.” Breaking a window is relatively common occurring in instances like this for other cars. I don’t expect my first responders to pull up a manual when there’s life at risk.
> where the doors are locked and you are outside the vehicle with no power. Yeah, there's a reason for that, this would also be the condition for a criminal wanting to break into the car. You don't want the car to be able to be opened non-destructively when the doors are locked. If the doors on most cars are locked, you'll have to break a window to get in after a crash, that's normal. There's a manual handle on the inside, but I imagine it would be hard for a child to be guided through it's use.
A man died in his Corvette when this happened. He didn't know about the emergency release.
The release for exterior doors should always be mechanical. The fact that it needs an emergency release at all is a bad sign.
Not to mention anything "emergency" should be out in plain sight and easily accessible.
Yeah emergency stuff should always be designed for someone who has never even heard of the product before, let alone read the manual.
Or even if they can’t read the written language it should be that plainly obvious for an emergency exit door or something. Simple pictures go a long way.
The emergency door release should be the same as the regular, except more or harder.
The emergency door release shouldn't be necesssry. It should be the same release as the regular one. I genuinely hope that legislation catches up to this. Make a mechanical non-electric door release mandatory in all vehicles. It might not be cool and futuristic to pull a handle to unhook a latch, but in an accident nobody is thinking "man, I'm sure glad this car reminds me of speculative fiction"
The emergency release for the exterior door should always be a handle that you always use to open and close the doors in non-emergency situations. Anything else and you are over engineering the shit out of a system that is centuries old. Which if you are doing that you have to either be a genius (which they are not) or trying to prove a point (which is stupid when it comes to standard features like a door handle)
Yeah I don't see a reason for a button, except: it looks cool. EDIT: The corvette latches are in the body instead of the door, so that's why it's electric.
It should be obvious too. Why there can't be manual door handles anymore I haven't a clue. You can easily have both type of mechanisms for the door. Not everything about a cars interior has to be about style and design. There are many things that people require for function
Mechanical fucking everything...
God what a horrible way to die
That's why newer cars have backseat reminders. It's also a good idea to read your car's manual. My car battery died and it doesn't have any visible key holes in the door. You have to take a plastic piece off to get to them.
Well yeah, but in this case the child wasn't forgotten so that reminder wouldn't have helped.
Many years ago, when the C6 Corvettes were fairly new, my neighbor across the street locked himself in his C6. I was sitting at home on a hot day when I kept hearing honking. I looked outside and realized it was coming from across the street. I ran over and he pointed at his bench in the garage, where his keys were. I unlocked it and he came bursting out of the car drenched in sweat and gasping for fresh air. He hadn't had the car for very long. On that hot day, he went to get something out of the car, and he absent-mindedly closed the door and it locked. When he realized that he left his keys on the bench, he realized that he didn't know how to manually open the door and that the owner's manual was inside the house. It's a good thing that his horn still worked.
Do they not just unlock when you pull the handle from inside? What the fuck.
not keeping the owner’s manual in the car itself just seems like a really odd decision to me
On a C8: Reach your door side hand down past your knee and it's a lever on the floorboard that you pull up. It has a yellow and black sticker on it with a door release picture. It's like the lever for opening a fuel door.
It's concerning to me that I'm learning that this issue is a problem with other modern car models as well from a reply in a reddit comment because I only ever see Tesla in the title when it comes to these articles.
Doors requiring electricity to open is such a moronic idea
Yet that's the direction everyone is moving to, not just Tesla. MachE has electric doors too.
It's like these manufacturers are purposely designing things in the worst possible way to look futuristic. Between this door issue & cramming all the controls into a giant tablet, I'm not sure I'm ever gonna want to buy an EV. I'm partial to Mazdas in part because of how they have physical controls in the center console for the infotainment system
My husband and I had different priorities when we were shopping for our EV. He was partial to Teslas, I to anything else. We went with a Nissan Ariya that I think has the best of both worlds. Enough tech to satisfy him but important mechanical things to satisfy me (like regular goddamn door handles).
They're cost saving measures. Just cramming a tablet into the center console is a lot cheaper than designing and manufacturing a full set of switches that are just going to connect to the same computer anyway. For doors, it's a lot easier to design one electronic latch for all your cars and just wire it wherever it needs to go on each door panel than to fit a mechanical locking mechanism specifically for each door.
I used to be a field tech for a security company. One of the products we sold were door controllers. The kind like you badge in and out of or put in a code. Fire codes mandated that if that door was the only egress point it had to be fail-safe not fail-secure in the event of a power loss. This means that if the power goes out the door HAS to open and cannot remain locked. That's a general statement but the entire point was in an emergency you didn't want to be fucking around with a locked door while in a panicked state. Or prevent emergency responders from being able to assist.
Yep. I worked security during a build out for a major company and when they were installing the badge systems I learned that. We had a few false fire alarms during construction. Whenever it went off I would hear an audible \*click\* noise from the doors unlocking. They don't want to waste firefighter's time or to potentially trap someone in a burning building because of locked doors.
Also that flush door handle design can double as a swivel when the power goes out. Just push one edge and the other side pops out. I don't design cars, what do I know.
My wife accidentally locked our toddler in a Mercedes on a 95 degree day, and since we didn’t pay for their on-star whatever they refused to remote unlock it. Luckily cops got there in minutes and got into the car within a few more minutes with their balloon and hook gadget. Would have work just as well on a Tesla. There’s a manual door release in the front that’s easy to hook.
Onstar answered your call and Then refused to unlock it because you didnt pay for it? What fresh hell is this.
It was Mercedes version of On Star. Luckily it was a lease and we were glad to turn that turd back.
That should be a news story. Mobile carriers are required to let you dial 911 for free. OnStar (or Mercedes or whatever) should be required to save your toddler from dying for free too.
It was a news story. Volkswagen refused to give the location of a carjacked car with an infant in the backseat because the owner didn’t pay for location services
In that scenario their standard procedure actually is to help regardless of the bill...but the person at Volkswagen picking up the phone did their own thing. Which I think speaks more of the combination of investing as little as possible in customer service with threatening employees harsh consequences for giving any revenue stream for free.
If I had to wager, it probably speaks more to the ridiculous goals the call center has set for those agents which creates a culture of feeling like they need to try and squeeze every sale out of every caller.
I mean it's also possible that the agent is just a terrible person. The world doesn't have a shortage of those.
Toddler, sorry: https://lawandcrime.com/lawsuit/profits-over-people-volkswagen-refused-to-provide-gps-data-on-stolen-vehicle-with-toddler-inside-until-family-paid-150-to-renew-subscription-service-lawsuit-alleges/
It should be. But I bet there is a whole team of lawyers that decided “too many people are going to abuse this service.” Basically Chipotle c-suite.
I assure you the lawyers are not the ones who made that decision. Any lawyer would have said fuck that liability, and some C-suite said "eh whatever."
That seams like it should be a crime if you can save a child’s life but don’t, specifically citing money as the reason.
That’s fucked up. I would have been like “I’ll pay the fucking $100 or whatever to sign up, now open the fucking door”
Yikes "We'd happily help save your kid's life *if you bought our extra benefits package*. Unfortunately, you didn't, so good luck with the funeral arrangements." --Mercedes-Benz, apparently
They knew a child was trapped inside and refused to unlock it? You probably could have bled them dry in court.
That sounds like a lawsuit; 'we can easily unlock your door and save your child but only if you pay us first 😈'
From the [source article](https://www.azfamily.com/2024/06/20/toddler-trapped-car-when-tesla-battery-dies-scottsdale/): > The 12-volt battery that powers the car’s electronics died without warning. > Tesla drivers are supposed to receive three warnings before that happens, but the Tesla service department confirmed that Sanchez didn’t receive any warnings. Tesla engineers had time to add a whoopee cushion feature, but failed to ensure a critical component was functioning. Real slick shit, Tesla.
I had this happen to me with my Model Y, no warnings, just dead one morning. Only had the car a year and a half - pretty frustrating! It took them days to fix it, with no loaners available.
It took days to fix a dead battery? Why? That's crazy
I think they were just busy. When the battery died, I had to use the emergency release to get out and since the battery was dead it couldn't move the window down the inch or so it needs to close the door. When the tow truck came they put padding between the window and door frame, taped it secure and added some plastic sheeting for rain protection. The driver said the hot weather in Florida was tough on the batteries and this happened routinely. After all of this, I stopped by the Tesla shop to get something out of my car a couple days later, it hadn't moved from where the tow truck dropped it and the plastic sheeting was still in place. For future reference, there are charging cables in the tow port in the front that you can use to jump start the 12v battery. The tow truck driver just clipped on a standard battery charger and the car came to life - lots of crazy error messages flashing and the door still wouldn't close. But perhaps if you are 100% locked out of the car, it's an option?
That's wild. The battery went out on our 2018 Model 3 and the car just flashed an error up on screen that said features like the radio, bluetooth, and climate control wouldn't work until the 12v battery was replaced. I clicked a few buttons in the App and a Service Tech came out the next day and swapped it for free. I had a different experience with our Nissan Leaf when the 12v died. The car would power on and AC, radio, etc all worked but the car refused to start. It just displayed a message about the 12v battery. I put it on a 12v charger and it allowed the car to start. I drove it up to O'Reily and swapped the battery out for $75. The guy at O'Reily looked really confused when I said I needed a battery for my Leaf until I explained it was a regular 12v lead acid and not the lithium pack.
probably just because of wait time and not because it was difficult it's a 10 minute fix, but all service is first come first served and if you want it done under warranty you're at their mercy
Mechanics couldnt figure out how to pop the hood without power
Predicting when a lead-acid battery will fail is difficult, and many other manufacturers fail to do this properly. Their latest models all have LFP batteries that should last 10+ years.
12v systems die without warning as they reach end of life, I don't know why they think the system can detect it ahead of time.
They switched to Lithium 12v batteries from lead acid; a lot easier to detect failures with.
Or just have regular doors like every car in the last 100 years
My dad likes to buy vehicles new, but he still manages to find models with roll down windows, manual locks, etc. He's an engineer with amazing repair skills, but he says it works fine & there's less to go wrong. Funny enough I bought the same kind of vehicle as him used, with power windows & stuff. Well, when my driver's window switch failed he replaced it. Didn't even gloat about his philosophy being right! At least if a window switch fails you can open the door at drive-thrus for a few weeks. If the key fob dies it can be costly but there's usually a backup keyhole in the door handle. But I think they've gone too far when the literal ability to enter your vehicle can fail. Maybe later this century if things get ultra reliable, but we're not there yet.
I love my key fob but it's nearly criminal how much they charge to replace them. It should be no more then $20, not hundreds.
Our bmw i4 similarly went totally dead with no warning, wouldn’t open. Car was empty thankfully. Husband managed to get in but that was it, no lights etc. we got it towed and it worked fine at the dealership and they found nothing wrong. Pretty scary. (Edited - we have an i4 not an i3)
Same shit happened to our Ioniq 6 yesterday. 5 days not driven, 12V dead, no warnings... According to their software it actually went dead after 3 days parked. AAA refused to jump start EV and would only tow it. So I got the neighbors USB jump starter, let it "idle" for 1h. Pretty sure when I get the battery checked at the dealership they won't find anything wrong with it. I think it's a software bug, because when I use the app or hit the API (for smart home integration) the car "turns on", with the recent heatwave that seems to trigger a bunch of fans to run for 20min... killing the tiny 12V rather quick. Sad to see that huge battery there not being able to power the basic car functions. ETA: getting in the car took 1min, even with flush door handles the hidden key lock worked. Opening doors from inside and hood all worked manually. Trunk was a little tricky, charging port impossible. Jump start was like jumping an ICE car, although no cranking noise and "you can do it" cheers.
But you can always open the doors from the outside and the inside.
Why can't a Tesla, or any EV, just have a regular physical key to open the door in case there is no power? Seems like a simple solution.
I have a Bolt and it has a physical key in the fob that you can use in the door handle.
It's just... A car. But electric!
I had a MachE and it has a physical key in the fob too but it wasn't cut because there's no key hole to put it in.
For the bolt there's a bit in the handle you have to remove, but it's not hard. I've never had to do it, but I've done it once just for practice in an emergency situation
My Volvo EV has a hidden key hole...
My Chevy bolt has one too. I fucking hate all doors with any motors or electronics in them. Mechanical doors essentially never fail. Every sliding mini van door, hatchback, or electronic door I’ve used is just slower than a regular mechanism and is a total pain in the ass to use. Not to mention they’ll break if you try to push them while they’re doing their thing
There should be a manual way to open doors in case of an emergency. This is unsafe.
Does a tesla not have an emergency handle for the freaking doors? Seems like a lawsuit
only inside. only the front doors. unless you can find the hidden manual cables behind the speaker grills or under the footwell carpet... idiotic design. like most things tesla.
I have a Model Y and the lack of emergency door handles in the back worry me most. The [instructions](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html) on pulling up the mat under the door pockets and pulling on a tab would be impossible to explain to a kid in a crisis
or even an adult.
While upside down and under water.
Note Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors. lol
> Note > Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors. Paid for emergency feature, a basic emergency feature that is fucking OPTIONAL
I had a Porsche Boxster that had a power hood latch, so if the battery died you couldn't open the frunk. Where the battery was located... All so the hood opener could feel more premium I guess? Good old mechanical systems work fine though... Now imagine making that same choice for a door handle just so it can be "cool" and futuristic, so it's not just that you can't get into your frunk, you just can't get into the car at all.
My car has the battery in the trunk, which is only openable electronically So if the battery dies, you have to either use the keys to open the drivers door, climb into the back seat, then crawl through the trunk and pull the internal release Alternatively you can hook a boost pack up to the terminals under the hood. If the battery is just dead that's usually an option. But if it's something else wrong with the connection somewhere, then the trunk yoga is the only option.
The Tesla handle is pretty shit design. Aerodynamic, sure, but a pain to use even when it works (if your hands are full, forget it) and confuses virtually everyone. However, with more and more cars moving to a keyless design we’re going to see more of this happening if their 12v battery die while locked. It almost seems like we need some government involvement to enforce some minimum safety standards on door handle design so we don’t have to force entry in a worst case scenario.
Most door mechanisms mechanically unlock the door when the interior handle is pulled. This is a solved problem that these electronic gizmos are needlessly reintroducing.
This might not be true of all cars, but all other keyless entry cars I've driven still have a physical lock and key. The key is tucked into the fob and the lock is usually hidden behind a removable panel on the handle.
The headline is atrocious. I assume the baby is okay.
Turns out keys have a purpose.
"Tesla didn’t respond to a request for comment; it has dissolved its press office."
Firefighter here, this is quite an overreaction. Access takes 30 seconds and doesn’t cause damage to the car, these guys just weren’t properly trained. Pop the circle panel on the front bumper, hook up a remote jump pack, which pops the frunk. Move the jump pack to the battery terminals in the frunk and everything powers right up. this type of design is becoming more common on all vehicles, not just EV’s or Teslas.
oh, is that what the little circle on the front is for? I've always noticed it but never really thought about it
The little circle is for the tow hook but the 12v leads are on there.
It should be required that all exterior doors have a primary mechanical latch (including on the inside. No push button release) for this reason (you can still have secondary electronic releases for things like trunks and hatches). And why you need a physical key on at least the driver's door and the trunk/hatch.
Gonna go ahead and say: manual things are totally cool too! Buttons. Levers. This computer car life is a nightmare. Just one huge screen… and no more buttons? Fuck this shit
There’s a battery connection behind a cover on the bumper. Connect a 12v jump pack battery there and you can open the frunk. From there use the jump pack on the battery. This is just another case of an owner not reading the manual.
I don’t know how Teslas pass safety test. They are trash with good batteries. They spend time adding fart sounds and shit instead of getting the cars safe and well built.
Some context for the non-Tesla owners in this thread (or people who didn't read the article). The high voltage battery recharges the 12V battery. But the door locks, windows, and such, are only directly powered by the 12V battery for obvious reasons. When the 12V battery dies, these features are physically stuck, but the car is not necessarily "dead". As long as the high voltage battery was not also dead, the owner should have access, via the phone app, to climate controls. So the child in the OP should not have been in any immediate danger. (But of course, I can hardly blame a parent for panicking.) What you can do in this situation is open the small port on the front bumper and expose a red and black electrical lead. You can connect another vehicle's 12V batter to this to pop the "frunk". That exposes the 12V battery which can then be jumped like any other car's 12V battery. (The actual original article links to the user manual page for this on Tesla's website.) If this person had been helped by firefighters instead of police, there is a higher chance they would have known about this. In the time it probably took them to tape and then break the window, the car could have been jumped with no damage. That said, the child is safe and in the end that's what matters. EDIT: In fairness to the complainers, while this situation is extremely rare, I do think a second, smaller, emergency 12V battery would be a good idea. But honestly, I think cases like this are probably much rarer than cases of people locking their keys in the car.
Why doesn’t a Tesla have a small solar panel to keep the 12v battery charged. I’ve heard of multiple problems around the battery running out of power. Seems like an obvious floor and an easy fix.
12v lead acid systems, even with trickle charging, can die unexpectedly. It has nothing to do with being charged and everything to do with the nature of lead acid batteries near end of life.
New ones use a lithium battery now
There used to be a concept where doors would fail safe. Buildings I have worked with electronic doors leave the doors unlocked when there is no power. Shouldn't this be a standard?
Yeah that was part of the downfall of the Delorean.
So like, what happens if you crash into a body of water and the car is submerged? Certain death? Im kinda assuming the battery would short in this scenario but maybe im wrong.
I don’t get how it is legal to have this Imagine if a building couldn’t be opened because there is no electricity and everyone burn alive inside it i mean hell it already happened for sure why are they not taking experience from it ?? how many people will die before tesla can be opened without electricty and a team of firefighters
This is why you shouldnt over complicate simple stuff like door handles. Every car should be required to have a manual lock as a back up for situations like this
And yet Tesla fanboys still defend the company for *hiding* manual release latches in Model Y for the doors. Or not even putting in any manual release latches in the Model 3 at all.
It's almost like this was solved 80 fucking years ago