Security are scarecrows and they know it. Employers don't want the liability of a member of staff getting bottled or knife, so staff, security or not, can't touch em if they get remotely aggressive.
It's depressing as hell.
To me, as soon as anyone gets aggressive or violent towards staff that's them getting hiked out of the store. If they've assaulted staff with a weapon, that's them getting tackled to the ground and held there until the police arrive.
I saw some crazy shit in a McDonalds. This one lad, in a bunch of mouthy youths, slapped one of the staff. The manager walked him out at arms length, getting punched in the face several times. This dude must have eaten at least ten solid enough shots, but as soon as he got this kid out in the street, he hit back once and the lad dropped. He was crying to his mates as I left.
People literally applauded this manager, but I doubt he still has his job.
I mean he has the grounds of self defense to keep his job, good chance he does still work there. he likely did go through disciplinary action though.
I know people who've been verbally harassed by customers in the mcdonalds I work at and when the staff member eventually gets fed up and tells them to go fuck themselves they generally don't get in any trouble at all. although obviously there is a difference between telling someone to fuck off and punching them so I'm not sure.
It's not worth the effort for anyone involved. The guard doesn't want to get stabbed or for the thief to be waiting in the car park after shift with his mates. The store doesn't want to be sued for the thief's broken arm from a hasty grab.
Their job is to deter, then if that fails then to record and report. What the police do from there is their business, and the store eats the cost of a few bottles. Sounds like a decent time all round to me.
This is all spot on. I'm a security officer contracted to sainsbury's and that's pretty much our job. Had the group gotten violent, I have no doubt the security there would have jumped in, but we're never going to escalate things by trying to stop an aggressive thief. If we escalate it and anyone gets hurt for any reason, it's our fault. We know it and the staff know it. Just a real shame.
Also, didn't they use to hold people until the police get there back in the day? Police don't show up anymore, so what's the point?
Although, even if they did, like you say, why risk it for a measly wage.
I've done security since 1999. We could detain, follow, even forcibly stop someone leaving. Now if we did that you risk getting stabbed, followed home, posted on social media, having the person come back with all their mates, and getting sacked for doing the basics.
9/10 times the presence of security will deter potential shoplifters. A few times in the Tesco I work the security guys doing laps of the store make shoplifters put the stuff down and leave. Unfortunately there's always that time when people just don't care and try and take as much as they can.
The emperor walking around naked, you mean.
All it takes is one person to see through the whole game.
Though, in fairness, these guys are all on CCTV, with witnesses so it would be a shockingly simple task for the police to go to their homes and arrest them - not the smartest move.
It only works if they have the backing of police turning in. Which they don't now. Hence the behaviour shown in the videonon the rise. We need a massive increase in coopers on the street to deter this behaviour. It will get much more brazen if we don't.
Basically, yes.
It's company policy.
Now, if other other hand, companies couldn't be sued and greater force was allowed to be used (I'm not saying this should be the case), the response from security would be VERY different.
But that opens its own problems.
Back 20 years ago when I worked at Sainsbury’s a silent alarm would be pressed and every male worker in the store would run to the front to confront the trouble makers. The lads from the warehouse would take joy in dealing with the scum.
Same when I worked at Netto - 4 bells from the till and every fella and a couple of the female workers would amass.
Chasing shop lifters was the highlight of the job
We had a similar system at Wilkinsons, I remember being an 18 year old hearing the call for Mr white to come to checkouts, which basically meant all men leg it to the tills, unfortunately for me, we generally only had two guys working the store the rest was middle aged women, but we had each other's back. Whenever shit went down, generally we were allowed to grab someone before they left the store but as soon as they got outside we had to let them go.
We used to do that in Wilkos. I was a till girl and you’d hear code 100 over the tannoy and the shelf stackers and warehouse men would come flying to the front of the shop and start laying in to the shoplifters. Good times.
Yeah we used to have that at Texas Homecare... difference was the warehouse guys would turn up with hammers, stanley knives etc. (which they happened to be using for 'warehouse' stuff) Nowadays the cops would arrest YOU, back then they just laughed at some kid who sh\*t his pants
For my job role I do some work in police facilities. I overhead a copper having a conversation with her peers not too long ago and said “it’s just a few bottles of wine I don’t understand why she keeps calling us?”
Pretty sure if you told the police you are holding someone they’d turn up sharpish. It’s a bit more of an urgent situation that someone shoplifting and just walking out.
CCTV is much better quality now, and so is BWV and phone footage. It's far safer and easier to pick these people up later when they're dozing in their sleeping bags at the local multi-storey than when they're buzzed on crack in their shoplifting spree.
It's not unusual to have 5 or 6 shopliftings all dealt with at one appearance in the Magistrates' court, all of them proved by the CCTV without the defendant having been detained during any of the thefts - just lifted a couple of weeks later, interviewed and charged with the batch.
(Am Criminal Barrister - sometimes these sorts of cases come up to the Crown Court if they're really prolific or have been shoplifting in breach of Crown Court suspended sentence Orders.)
Also to add Tesco head office will not have the security guards backs should something go wrong. They will say the guards did not act according to company policy and wash their hands of the situation.
Don't be a security guard then. My girlfriend got keyed in the face by a customer at aldi and the security guard didn't do anything. He was literally standing there and did nothing.
But the staff aren't told that. The implication is if something kicks off the security guard will step in. At no point are the staff told "do not rely on the security guard, they're just there for the insurance". Either way, she was the only woman working in the store at the time and not one male staff member helped her. At what point do we have to worry about stepping in when someone's stabbing someone in the face with a set of keys? Have we constantly got to worry about legal ramifications?
We *are* told that, anyone who's worked in retail for more than a few weeks should know how security works.
Security is there as a deterrent and they aren't allowed to physically touch people at all in a lot of places. They're not allowed to even stop you unless they've physically seen you pocket something without paying and walk out the door. Then they can't touch you once you're like 2m out the door again.
As for the "only female in the store and no male helped her"... I'm sorry, but welcome to 2024 is all I can say to that one. Staff will get a final written warning for touching a customer, and the customer can also report us for assault on top of that. So, yeah, we unfortunately do have to worry about all that shit.
Well it's a deeper run problem than insurance if you have a bunch of coworkers who stood and watched you get assaulted and they are able bodied men cowards I believe is the term.
I agree, it is a deeper run problem. Thing is, if you're in a similar situation, you'd be better off trying to get help from the public within the store, as they'd at least be out of the firing line of the supermarket.
But regarding the colleagues, the fact is that before you've worked for a consecutive two years at your workplace, you can be dismissed at any time, for any or no reason, and no explanation needs to be given. You don't have a right to one. Your job security depends entirely on a cost/benefit calculation between the cost of replacing you and the benefit of keeping you. Breach of contract on behalf of the employer also can't go to tribunal if you've been given proper notice, since notice pay is the only eligible compensation.
So if their contract explicitly states that they're not allowed to engage with violent members of the public (and I'm not saying it necessary does), then they have no choice but to abide by that. Even if they had served their two years and become eligible for unfair dismissal protection, you'd have an uphill battle trying to fight that in a tribunal if it's a breached contract term.
I don't find the colleagues entirely blameless, but I also don't know what sort of terms their contracts contain. Unfortunately, if the risk of punishment gets in the way then it's pretty unlikely the majority of colleagues would step in to help.
This is not the minimum wage employees fault, it's the shop owners'. I get why you have an emotional obligation to place blame but they're told not to interfere, its low skill work, and they aren't paid enough to be attacked, just to deter.
No its not rhe companies fault. Its the governments fault. That security guard should have the comfort factor that he will get a police response if needed. Theives would be deterred from doing brazen thieving if they new coopers were coming quickly.
It daisy may devastated the police force and the results of that are blooming.
True true but I see the issue here being is that they approached these man in the aisle. If they wanted to deter them, they should have got them outside the aisle because there has literally been customer videos where people will destroy the alcohol aisle and ends up being a lot worse.
So in other words security going to the aisle was a bit of a dumb show for three offenders. If it was one different story
Especially considering, according to "SCONE", you can only perform a stop once they pass the last point of payment, and cross the exit of the store...
But then, you're not supposed to pursue outside the store, so how would you perform a stop outside? 🤣
The store policies are *so* insanely contradictory it blows my mind.
Was a security guard on the West Coast of Scotland, you were not allowed to approach let’s say, a junkie with an item until they’d left the stores premises. Gone outside basically ok fine! The problem with that is if I as the security guard went and attempted an apprehension and got stabbed or stuck with a needle as happened to a neighbouring colleague. Then I wasn’t insured for that, my insurance would be null and voided once I left the store. WTF!!
Yep, its absolutely asinine. Just because preventing wrongdoing happening carries risk, doesn't mean we should be so afraid of the consequences of intervening that we just start *letting it hapoen*...which is where we're at now.
As the old saying goes - and please, don't mistake me for likening petty thieves with people of pure evil, because I'm not, its the principle that's important;
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.
All this, because one attempted stop resulted in a colleague getting stabbed as I recall. So the whole company went full 180 on active Loss Prevention.
Psychologically speaking, yes. My wife did her psychology dissertation on fear of crime and those cardboard cutouts are similarly effective to a security camera or even a person in a high viz like in this video. If people feel “watched”, it’s not super important what is “watching” them, the outcome is similar. Mad eh.
I saw a theory that they have security not to stop people stealing, but to get insurance payouts for losses (i guess insurance companies won't pay for losses if there's no security)
When I worked in retail (stock reporting - major retailer), I wasn't aware of any claims submitted for 'shrinkage'. I don't think it's covered. Even if it was, I'd expect the insurers to set an excess level that would make it not worthwhile to submit loads of small claims for individual incidents.
It's claimed at the company level, your shrinkage is reported up the chain, then a single claim goes in once a year. It doesn't cover the full value of the shrinkage.
I worked in the company head office. Total shrinkage was attributed to multiple causes including shoplifting, in-store damage, staff theft, pricing errors and invoicing/receipting mistakes.
I don't know where you get that, but no insurance cover for that type of theft.
Costs are recovered by putting prices up of products. Compensating loss due to petty theft. It's the general public paying for it.
Insurance will pay for break is, force entry etc... not general grab and run, no matter how much is stolen.
Tescos has changed a lot. I’ve been there for over 5 years and remember couple years ago, these thieves would have been slapped on the spot and dragged out of the store or had a swarm of tesco staff corner them. Now it’s so much different, it makes no sense..
I think that guy dying when a security guard tackled him for nicking a bottle made people realise it’s not worth a potential death or being charged with manslaughter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-39860739.amp
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Why would any regular Tesco employee get involved? If they injured the thief and the thief sues Tesco the employee will get the blame. If the employee gets injured and phones in sick it will count against them. Fuck putting yourself in harms way for a company that doesn't give a shit about you.
I worked for a rival supermarket. 20 years ago these guys would of been pinned to the ground,till the police arrived,with someone sticking the boot in when nobody was looking. Bring back those days.
Idk if this is big Tesco's rule but in my express security guards just mop the floor with them if needed. Last time we had a shoplifter the guard grabbed his bag and the dude tried to bit his had, he pushed on his neck and floored him like it was paper.
In my local Tesco 3 guys did a smash and grab on the phone shop unfortunately for them they were 3 off duty police officers in self checkout (opposite the phone shop) needless to say, their shit got very fucked up 😂
I wish people would stop watching videos like this and calling out security. Their jobs are difficult and dangerous and poorly paid. I've watched people with knives walk into my store and watched colleagues attacked because they're caught up in this and everyone's always got an opinion but never know the facts.
Whether you're wearing blue or a high Viz, you're not paid to get physical with anyone but you're still putting yourself in danger to monitor the scene, record, keep customers away, and go through all the paper work and even court processes. And even when you do everything right you can still get attacked.
Just because they're not allowed to initiate, doesn't mean they're not doing a dangerous job already
I agree with you in the current way security staff are not to blame, store/government policies are to blame by not empowering them.
Security should be provided with tools and training to defend themselves, power to actually intervene and detain but also the wages to make it worth there while.
it wrong that scum like that so openly take from stores an will most likely just get a slap on the wrist, if we bring in stricter punishment it will either deter them or at least have them off the streets.
If you look whats been happening with Walmart in america they are shutting stores due to high theft and low convictions, the uk needs to tuffen up before we either loose shops or prices skyrocket.
If you train them like that, equipped them like that, and PAY them like that
Guess what
Stores won't employ them.
Retailers CANNOT afford to hire their own police force. If you think theft will make prices skyrocket, try going down your route instead.
Maybe they should be appropriately paid, equipped and trained to actually deal with these incidents, rather than spending their days hassling grannies when the security tag has been left on their sherry, and letting the criminals who are stealing to sell march out.
It makes the rest of us realise we are paying both for the pointless security and to cover the cost of the theft, and wonder why we do it.
Remember the nation voted for this. We voted for police and other emergency services cuts. We voted and now petty crime is practically unenforceable. Remember this when you vote in July.
I feel like the solution here is a public private partnership. And by that I mean, very specifically, that the supermarkets provide enough funding for 4 police officers per branch (they make hundreds of millions a year, they can afford it). And the police make sure one of them is made available at all times for policing and prosecuting shoplifting.
That way the rest of us get better police forces, and the supermarkets get an effective deterrent. Heck, the reduction in shrinkage would probably pay for it.
The supermarkets have a very good idea where the shoplifting is an issue, so resources would be allocated on a town by town basis. Set the contracts to 5 years with renegotiation for the next term to be completed at least 2 years before contract expires, allowing time for planning for the police budget.
I remember a time where all the guys working in the drinks dept would chase down shits like this and sit on them till the police came. The security guards were pointless and getting paid just about min wage they have no reason to risk getting stabbed or beaten up
We used to have a security guard in the local Morrisons who looked about 80 years old. Tiny little man with a beard. Looked like he weighed about 9 stone. One time a bunch of Turks came in and started acting all lairy and the poor old bastard went and hid behind the Pringles display.
We were told not to take on store thieves.
The smallest woman who worked with us didn't listen. I came in work the following day and was told how this 4ft5 lady told 2 men to put back all the makeup they were stealing or she'd get really mad. They put it all back. Daksha, you're a legend!
More rights for the offender than the victim, as always! Wouldn’t be surprised if they rolled out the red carpet for them next time 😉 In all honesty, if security had been allowed to they should have kicked the shit out of those cunts.
That's certainly one way to bring 'rights' into the conversation. Personally, I prefer the right to not risk getting glassed/stabbed by a group of hooligans without having to worry about losing my job because I didn't prevent the theft of a few quid's worth of booze. Policies which prevent security personnel from laying hands on shoplifters are there to protect those personnel, both from physical violence by the perpetrators and from retaliation/punishment by their employer for not being willing to risk their life for minimum wage.
I agree, I think they're suggesting the laws should allow security to deck them, and pay them £25 an hour. Which would be optimal with the correct training.
There would have to be significant training as would be expected of a 60k job that should massively reduce occurance of this happening.
Better than how it is now.
What a depressing thread.
How easy would it be to identify these twats though and find a way / legislate a way to reduce / remove whatever ‘benefits’ the state may provide for them?
They clearly don’t want to be a part of any decent functioning society (sorry, ‘actively’ don’t want to be…) so what penalties would work? Housing benefit / credits / future pension entitlements?
Seriously, how do we address this? And, no, Farage and his ilk isn’t any answer to anything.
In the meantime, f*** these twats
Its so important that shit like this is absolutely stamped on. If you tolerate low level theft, slightly higher level crime becomes more prevalent. And then so on and so forth.
It's the absolute bedrock of a functioning society that crime like this should be punished
And yet Reddit bursts at the seams with enlightened morons saying that "if you see someone stealing from a large corporation, no you didn't", then they wonder how this all came to be.
I agree with both of you but think there is a line between someone quietly nicking a sandwich or small amount of food cos they need it, and folk filling sports direct bottles with spirits in front of security
Everyone should be allowed to take down these idiots because in the end we all pay for it with prices rising to cover the costs. After a few supermarket brawls surely something would change.
I work for a smaller competitor. We have had the very same happen countless times.
We don't have any security (not that it matters)
Thieves fully understand that we cannot intervene. They target the small convenience store I work at because it is primarily staffed by middle aged women, the thieves threaten and frankly terrify them.
The police give us crime numbers and nothing more.
And the company I work for regularly chide the store management for the amount of loss we incur. Like it's our fault? Lmao.
I used to feel awful after a large theft where we basically watched them leave the store with bags of goods but one day I thought it through:
I'm a poorly payed employee.
It's not my stuff. The stuff may be insured (if it isn't, they make plenty of profit to cover the losses.
The remote security cameras may as well be dummies
The company have decided to put no security in place
The company can bark about loss as much as they want
If the company nor the police won't intervene, I definitely won't be giving a shit.
What happened to using one of the bottles they’re stealing to smash their thieving heads in with.
Bottle the scum then use the smashed glass to slash their throats. 3 less asylum seeking pricks.
I know I am late but I really hope that people see this. Security Officers aren't legally allowed to physically intervene in a situation beyond the means of a normal citizen (i.e. citizens arrest) and aren't trained in Physical Intervention, when completing the prerequisite qualification necessary to obtain a SIA Licence.
Door Supervisors are trained in Physical Intervention, and can operate as a Security Officer, using their Door Supervisor licence. However when completing the role of a Security Officer they aren't allowed to use Physical Intervention. A Security Officer can not complete the role of a Door Supervisor.
It's not that they don't want to they aren't allowed to, typically aren't trained to either.
I saw a lad nick a big bottle of Jack Daniel’s in Asda. The security guard wasn’t allowed to touch him so I chased him across the car park shouting “you thieving cunt!” He put the bottle down and told me to “just take it”. I returned the bottle and felt like a fucking hero 😂
In retrospect I should have chased him around for longer as he was shitting it. It would have been funny to fuck with him. Thieving little prick
The degradation of the morals of society. Even if security did detain them the police wouldn't turn up and even if by some miracle they did come the courts wouldn't be allowed to sentence them properly. This country is a joke and if some action is not taken soon this cancer will spread and stores will close just like America.
My father whose 79 and grew up in a tough area always laughs when people idolize the past and talk about how the morals of society are declining.
It's bollocks, bad stuff has always happened and it's no more or less brazen than it ever was.
Not even a decade ago during my time at Sainsbury's we would have got stuck in with shoplifters. It was the wild west at times and surprised none of us got seriously hurt or arrested.
Alot of companies now discourage getting hands on. At Morrisons one guard got jumped after work by Pykies after stopping them robbing the shop and I got written warnings twice for confronting shoplifters (this was only 3-4 years back).
At the end of the day the police ain't coming they have essentially given ground to low level criminals and offences like shoplifting and ASB.
14 years of tory reign, and what do we get... thugs like these roaming shops terrorising staff and customers, it's a shambles that our public services are in the state they are by the criminal negligence of the government, meanwhile all their mates lined their pockets at every chance.
Common law act 1967 - A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
as terrible as this scene is, i much prefer this to then alternative which is getting physical and somebody getting hurt
shops are insured for this very thing, the criminals arent there to cause harm to people theyre there to thieve which is terrible as i stated but as long as theyre not injuring people im much less bothered by it.
Security is pointless and I don't blame the security staff cause why get involved when your paid min wage often at best.
No way if I was security risk getting hurt or even killed for the same money as someone who flips burgers my friend said the same to me once and he works security for a supermarket it's all to make people feel safe and to help her insurance.
When I worked in retail one of the first things they told us during training was that we weren't allowed to confront/touch/go after shop lifters. You could lose your job for it. Obviously they don't want to risk being sued for anything (either us getting injured on the job or us hurting them or mistaking someone from a shoplifter who isn't) but honestly nobody wanted to anyway. We weren't getting paid enough for that! Filming them however, DOES seem to make a difference. In my hometown there have been quite a few shoplifters prosecuted recently because they were repeat offenders, because they had footage like this and bodycam footage from security... So as shit as it is to let them just walk away, this video probably made a big difference in helping police build a case against them. It's clearly not their first time.
Winds me up so much, I know its not worth the risk intervening. But why should I or my colleagues work our asses off for a shit wage while it becomes increasingly acceptable to just brazenly stuff your bags with goods.
Something like this happened in the Sainsburys near me the other night and the security literally rugby tackled the bloke to the ground and sat on him to the police turned up.
The Jack Daniels went flying and nearly took an old lady out.
Failed society.
A friend of my family is a manager at Iceland and it breaks every rule going but he always chases shoplifters and takes their stuff back. Even ended up going down the local pub after work where they were fencing the stock.
I work nights at Tesco and this is an almost daily occurrence. The security guards are not allowed to touch them and on two separate occasions where they lock the front doors two different security guards have been assaulted. Alternatively they run out of the fire doors now. In my store we were actively told to ignore and not engage otherwise disciplinary action would be taken out against us.
A lot of retail shops instruct security not to attempt to detain. Working hospitality is different. I worked as a bouncer in Glasgow for about 10 years, did occasional retail shifts. There's different kind of license, security guard or door supervisor, but door supervisor can do security work too. Always wanted to try for close protection but could never rustle up enough money.
They (perpetrators) know that police will do nothing about it, even with clear video and cctv evidence.
They (security), know they will either get injured or prosecuted if they try to intervene physically and aren't paid enough for this shit anyway.
Was always the Poles here in the Christmas period.
They'd load up a shopping trolley or two and then bolt out the door, full of booze and cuts of meat.
Back before there were barriers everywhere.
Why can't they use man catcher sticks? Obviously not the ones with spikes that grab by the throat, but one that locks around the persons limbs or their torso, with a bit of padding to minimize damage from the struggle.
Seems absolutely stupid they can't physically interfere.
Glad the security didn’t do anything stupid, they’d lose their jobs and potentially get stabbed. They are not paid anywhere near enough to get involved in that
Factoring that we police spike consent soon because there’s not enough police/security paid well enough for the dangerous work.
Something something something 14 years Conservative government something something
Security cant do anything. Get paid next to nothing and likelihood they would have to forcibly restrain the guys for best part if a day before any police arrived
Security are scarecrows and they know it. Employers don't want the liability of a member of staff getting bottled or knife, so staff, security or not, can't touch em if they get remotely aggressive. It's depressing as hell.
Yep. Girlfriend is a manager at aldi and got keyed in the face by a customer whilst the security guard stood there.
To me, as soon as anyone gets aggressive or violent towards staff that's them getting hiked out of the store. If they've assaulted staff with a weapon, that's them getting tackled to the ground and held there until the police arrive.
I saw some crazy shit in a McDonalds. This one lad, in a bunch of mouthy youths, slapped one of the staff. The manager walked him out at arms length, getting punched in the face several times. This dude must have eaten at least ten solid enough shots, but as soon as he got this kid out in the street, he hit back once and the lad dropped. He was crying to his mates as I left. People literally applauded this manager, but I doubt he still has his job.
I mean he has the grounds of self defense to keep his job, good chance he does still work there. he likely did go through disciplinary action though. I know people who've been verbally harassed by customers in the mcdonalds I work at and when the staff member eventually gets fed up and tells them to go fuck themselves they generally don't get in any trouble at all. although obviously there is a difference between telling someone to fuck off and punching them so I'm not sure.
It's not worth the effort for anyone involved. The guard doesn't want to get stabbed or for the thief to be waiting in the car park after shift with his mates. The store doesn't want to be sued for the thief's broken arm from a hasty grab. Their job is to deter, then if that fails then to record and report. What the police do from there is their business, and the store eats the cost of a few bottles. Sounds like a decent time all round to me.
That plan stops working when the theives know this and non violent shoplifting becomes rampant, forcing up prices and shop closures.
This is all spot on. I'm a security officer contracted to sainsbury's and that's pretty much our job. Had the group gotten violent, I have no doubt the security there would have jumped in, but we're never going to escalate things by trying to stop an aggressive thief. If we escalate it and anyone gets hurt for any reason, it's our fault. We know it and the staff know it. Just a real shame.
So is your job to deter the less determined thieves. I do t want that to sound like I’m having a pop. Just wanting to understand 👍🏼
[удалено]
Also, didn't they use to hold people until the police get there back in the day? Police don't show up anymore, so what's the point? Although, even if they did, like you say, why risk it for a measly wage.
I've done security since 1999. We could detain, follow, even forcibly stop someone leaving. Now if we did that you risk getting stabbed, followed home, posted on social media, having the person come back with all their mates, and getting sacked for doing the basics.
So what exactly is the point of your role? Pretend Security?
9/10 times the presence of security will deter potential shoplifters. A few times in the Tesco I work the security guys doing laps of the store make shoplifters put the stuff down and leave. Unfortunately there's always that time when people just don't care and try and take as much as they can.
Unless coppers turn in the lads doing this kind if stuff nowadays don't give two fucks about you.
The emperor walking around naked, you mean. All it takes is one person to see through the whole game. Though, in fairness, these guys are all on CCTV, with witnesses so it would be a shockingly simple task for the police to go to their homes and arrest them - not the smartest move.
The point being that even with the guys on CCTV the cops won't do anything. Also the chances of anybody who knows them turning them in is zero.
Yeah, you're right.
Nah, if they live in certain areas the Police won't risk a confrontation.
It would, but now they'll see stuff like this on social and it'll become more common
Safety for the shop. When you have 100 staff and up to a thousand customers in the shop at the same time you need a security team.
It only works if they have the backing of police turning in. Which they don't now. Hence the behaviour shown in the videonon the rise. We need a massive increase in coopers on the street to deter this behaviour. It will get much more brazen if we don't.
I don't see how people making barrels is going to help (sorry)
Try and shoplift a cask of whiskey instead of a bottle, really slows you down.
Basically, yes. It's company policy. Now, if other other hand, companies couldn't be sued and greater force was allowed to be used (I'm not saying this should be the case), the response from security would be VERY different. But that opens its own problems.
Didn’t criminals have friends in the 90s
Back 20 years ago when I worked at Sainsbury’s a silent alarm would be pressed and every male worker in the store would run to the front to confront the trouble makers. The lads from the warehouse would take joy in dealing with the scum.
Same when I worked at Netto - 4 bells from the till and every fella and a couple of the female workers would amass. Chasing shop lifters was the highlight of the job
Fucking right it was 😂 only reason I worked the late shifts almost permanently
Same. Worked in retail 20 years ago, there was trouble with a local traveller camp and the tannoy would call out, ‘all male staff to the front gate.’
We had a similar system at Wilkinsons, I remember being an 18 year old hearing the call for Mr white to come to checkouts, which basically meant all men leg it to the tills, unfortunately for me, we generally only had two guys working the store the rest was middle aged women, but we had each other's back. Whenever shit went down, generally we were allowed to grab someone before they left the store but as soon as they got outside we had to let them go.
That legit sounds funny as heck
We used to do that in Wilkos. I was a till girl and you’d hear code 100 over the tannoy and the shelf stackers and warehouse men would come flying to the front of the shop and start laying in to the shoplifters. Good times.
We used to have an announcement over the tannoy for a fictitious Mr Heselgrave, as soon as anyone heard that name we all went running to the doors :)
Yeah we used to have that at Texas Homecare... difference was the warehouse guys would turn up with hammers, stanley knives etc. (which they happened to be using for 'warehouse' stuff) Nowadays the cops would arrest YOU, back then they just laughed at some kid who sh\*t his pants
For my job role I do some work in police facilities. I overhead a copper having a conversation with her peers not too long ago and said “it’s just a few bottles of wine I don’t understand why she keeps calling us?”
Pretty sure if you told the police you are holding someone they’d turn up sharpish. It’s a bit more of an urgent situation that someone shoplifting and just walking out.
CCTV is much better quality now, and so is BWV and phone footage. It's far safer and easier to pick these people up later when they're dozing in their sleeping bags at the local multi-storey than when they're buzzed on crack in their shoplifting spree. It's not unusual to have 5 or 6 shopliftings all dealt with at one appearance in the Magistrates' court, all of them proved by the CCTV without the defendant having been detained during any of the thefts - just lifted a couple of weeks later, interviewed and charged with the batch. (Am Criminal Barrister - sometimes these sorts of cases come up to the Crown Court if they're really prolific or have been shoplifting in breach of Crown Court suspended sentence Orders.)
Also to add Tesco head office will not have the security guards backs should something go wrong. They will say the guards did not act according to company policy and wash their hands of the situation.
Don't be a security guard then. My girlfriend got keyed in the face by a customer at aldi and the security guard didn't do anything. He was literally standing there and did nothing.
That’s because he’s not paid to be a hero, he’s there to reduce the insurance premium.
But the staff aren't told that. The implication is if something kicks off the security guard will step in. At no point are the staff told "do not rely on the security guard, they're just there for the insurance". Either way, she was the only woman working in the store at the time and not one male staff member helped her. At what point do we have to worry about stepping in when someone's stabbing someone in the face with a set of keys? Have we constantly got to worry about legal ramifications?
We *are* told that, anyone who's worked in retail for more than a few weeks should know how security works. Security is there as a deterrent and they aren't allowed to physically touch people at all in a lot of places. They're not allowed to even stop you unless they've physically seen you pocket something without paying and walk out the door. Then they can't touch you once you're like 2m out the door again. As for the "only female in the store and no male helped her"... I'm sorry, but welcome to 2024 is all I can say to that one. Staff will get a final written warning for touching a customer, and the customer can also report us for assault on top of that. So, yeah, we unfortunately do have to worry about all that shit.
To be honest Whilst in myself shitty retail days the security guard in my store was scraping with a shop lifter
If the staff don't realise that within a week, they're morons.
Well it's a deeper run problem than insurance if you have a bunch of coworkers who stood and watched you get assaulted and they are able bodied men cowards I believe is the term.
I agree, it is a deeper run problem. Thing is, if you're in a similar situation, you'd be better off trying to get help from the public within the store, as they'd at least be out of the firing line of the supermarket. But regarding the colleagues, the fact is that before you've worked for a consecutive two years at your workplace, you can be dismissed at any time, for any or no reason, and no explanation needs to be given. You don't have a right to one. Your job security depends entirely on a cost/benefit calculation between the cost of replacing you and the benefit of keeping you. Breach of contract on behalf of the employer also can't go to tribunal if you've been given proper notice, since notice pay is the only eligible compensation. So if their contract explicitly states that they're not allowed to engage with violent members of the public (and I'm not saying it necessary does), then they have no choice but to abide by that. Even if they had served their two years and become eligible for unfair dismissal protection, you'd have an uphill battle trying to fight that in a tribunal if it's a breached contract term. I don't find the colleagues entirely blameless, but I also don't know what sort of terms their contracts contain. Unfortunately, if the risk of punishment gets in the way then it's pretty unlikely the majority of colleagues would step in to help.
This is not the minimum wage employees fault, it's the shop owners'. I get why you have an emotional obligation to place blame but they're told not to interfere, its low skill work, and they aren't paid enough to be attacked, just to deter.
No its not rhe companies fault. Its the governments fault. That security guard should have the comfort factor that he will get a police response if needed. Theives would be deterred from doing brazen thieving if they new coopers were coming quickly. It daisy may devastated the police force and the results of that are blooming.
True true but I see the issue here being is that they approached these man in the aisle. If they wanted to deter them, they should have got them outside the aisle because there has literally been customer videos where people will destroy the alcohol aisle and ends up being a lot worse. So in other words security going to the aisle was a bit of a dumb show for three offenders. If it was one different story
Especially considering, according to "SCONE", you can only perform a stop once they pass the last point of payment, and cross the exit of the store... But then, you're not supposed to pursue outside the store, so how would you perform a stop outside? 🤣 The store policies are *so* insanely contradictory it blows my mind.
Was a security guard on the West Coast of Scotland, you were not allowed to approach let’s say, a junkie with an item until they’d left the stores premises. Gone outside basically ok fine! The problem with that is if I as the security guard went and attempted an apprehension and got stabbed or stuck with a needle as happened to a neighbouring colleague. Then I wasn’t insured for that, my insurance would be null and voided once I left the store. WTF!!
Yep, its absolutely asinine. Just because preventing wrongdoing happening carries risk, doesn't mean we should be so afraid of the consequences of intervening that we just start *letting it hapoen*...which is where we're at now. As the old saying goes - and please, don't mistake me for likening petty thieves with people of pure evil, because I'm not, its the principle that's important; The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. All this, because one attempted stop resulted in a colleague getting stabbed as I recall. So the whole company went full 180 on active Loss Prevention.
I wish we were allowed to grab twats like these they know security can’t touch them.
Why even bother having security?
To make sure those little old ladies pay their last pennies for their basic necessities
Indeed
It’s called security theatre. It makes people feel safe, and it’s a good deterrent for many.
Sort of like those cardboard cutouts of security in Poundstretcher then?
Psychologically speaking, yes. My wife did her psychology dissertation on fear of crime and those cardboard cutouts are similarly effective to a security camera or even a person in a high viz like in this video. If people feel “watched”, it’s not super important what is “watching” them, the outcome is similar. Mad eh.
Because it works as a deterrent most of the time.
I saw a theory that they have security not to stop people stealing, but to get insurance payouts for losses (i guess insurance companies won't pay for losses if there's no security)
When I worked in retail (stock reporting - major retailer), I wasn't aware of any claims submitted for 'shrinkage'. I don't think it's covered. Even if it was, I'd expect the insurers to set an excess level that would make it not worthwhile to submit loads of small claims for individual incidents.
It's claimed at the company level, your shrinkage is reported up the chain, then a single claim goes in once a year. It doesn't cover the full value of the shrinkage.
I worked in the company head office. Total shrinkage was attributed to multiple causes including shoplifting, in-store damage, staff theft, pricing errors and invoicing/receipting mistakes.
I don't know where you get that, but no insurance cover for that type of theft. Costs are recovered by putting prices up of products. Compensating loss due to petty theft. It's the general public paying for it. Insurance will pay for break is, force entry etc... not general grab and run, no matter how much is stolen.
This so many people don't understand that it's the honest consumers paying for these thefts
Tescos has changed a lot. I’ve been there for over 5 years and remember couple years ago, these thieves would have been slapped on the spot and dragged out of the store or had a swarm of tesco staff corner them. Now it’s so much different, it makes no sense..
I think that guy dying when a security guard tackled him for nicking a bottle made people realise it’s not worth a potential death or being charged with manslaughter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-39860739.amp
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Also happened in Newmarket
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Pretty pointless employing security if you're going to fire them if they stop thieves. 🤷🏻
Oh no, they have a reason. Insurance purposes. To tick the box of "have taken all reasonable security measures."
Why would any regular Tesco employee get involved? If they injured the thief and the thief sues Tesco the employee will get the blame. If the employee gets injured and phones in sick it will count against them. Fuck putting yourself in harms way for a company that doesn't give a shit about you.
This country has become nothing short of a joke when it comes to handling crime.
I worked for a rival supermarket. 20 years ago these guys would of been pinned to the ground,till the police arrived,with someone sticking the boot in when nobody was looking. Bring back those days.
Idk if this is big Tesco's rule but in my express security guards just mop the floor with them if needed. Last time we had a shoplifter the guard grabbed his bag and the dude tried to bit his had, he pushed on his neck and floored him like it was paper.
In my local Tesco 3 guys did a smash and grab on the phone shop unfortunately for them they were 3 off duty police officers in self checkout (opposite the phone shop) needless to say, their shit got very fucked up 😂
I wish people would stop watching videos like this and calling out security. Their jobs are difficult and dangerous and poorly paid. I've watched people with knives walk into my store and watched colleagues attacked because they're caught up in this and everyone's always got an opinion but never know the facts. Whether you're wearing blue or a high Viz, you're not paid to get physical with anyone but you're still putting yourself in danger to monitor the scene, record, keep customers away, and go through all the paper work and even court processes. And even when you do everything right you can still get attacked. Just because they're not allowed to initiate, doesn't mean they're not doing a dangerous job already
Tesco and most other stores have a “hands-off” policy. Who would risk getting bottled for NLW?
Instinctively people do get involved. But logically it's like you said, not worth the injury.
I agree with you in the current way security staff are not to blame, store/government policies are to blame by not empowering them. Security should be provided with tools and training to defend themselves, power to actually intervene and detain but also the wages to make it worth there while. it wrong that scum like that so openly take from stores an will most likely just get a slap on the wrist, if we bring in stricter punishment it will either deter them or at least have them off the streets. If you look whats been happening with Walmart in america they are shutting stores due to high theft and low convictions, the uk needs to tuffen up before we either loose shops or prices skyrocket.
If you train them like that, equipped them like that, and PAY them like that Guess what Stores won't employ them. Retailers CANNOT afford to hire their own police force. If you think theft will make prices skyrocket, try going down your route instead.
Maybe they should be appropriately paid, equipped and trained to actually deal with these incidents, rather than spending their days hassling grannies when the security tag has been left on their sherry, and letting the criminals who are stealing to sell march out. It makes the rest of us realise we are paying both for the pointless security and to cover the cost of the theft, and wonder why we do it.
Remember the nation voted for this. We voted for police and other emergency services cuts. We voted and now petty crime is practically unenforceable. Remember this when you vote in July.
I feel like the solution here is a public private partnership. And by that I mean, very specifically, that the supermarkets provide enough funding for 4 police officers per branch (they make hundreds of millions a year, they can afford it). And the police make sure one of them is made available at all times for policing and prosecuting shoplifting. That way the rest of us get better police forces, and the supermarkets get an effective deterrent. Heck, the reduction in shrinkage would probably pay for it. The supermarkets have a very good idea where the shoplifting is an issue, so resources would be allocated on a town by town basis. Set the contracts to 5 years with renegotiation for the next term to be completed at least 2 years before contract expires, allowing time for planning for the police budget.
Its Suuuuuper market sweeep!
I remember a time where all the guys working in the drinks dept would chase down shits like this and sit on them till the police came. The security guards were pointless and getting paid just about min wage they have no reason to risk getting stabbed or beaten up
Thank you corporate overlords for encouraging this pathetic state of affairs.
We used to have a security guard in the local Morrisons who looked about 80 years old. Tiny little man with a beard. Looked like he weighed about 9 stone. One time a bunch of Turks came in and started acting all lairy and the poor old bastard went and hid behind the Pringles display.
That's fair, hiding behind Walkers wouldn't offer much protection against knives as the packets are just full of air.
We were told not to take on store thieves. The smallest woman who worked with us didn't listen. I came in work the following day and was told how this 4ft5 lady told 2 men to put back all the makeup they were stealing or she'd get really mad. They put it all back. Daksha, you're a legend!
The average reddit user welcomes these people into our country...
[Removed due to comment pointing out the obvious] Please be reminded to keep your heads firmly in the sand.
More rights for the offender than the victim, as always! Wouldn’t be surprised if they rolled out the red carpet for them next time 😉 In all honesty, if security had been allowed to they should have kicked the shit out of those cunts.
That's certainly one way to bring 'rights' into the conversation. Personally, I prefer the right to not risk getting glassed/stabbed by a group of hooligans without having to worry about losing my job because I didn't prevent the theft of a few quid's worth of booze. Policies which prevent security personnel from laying hands on shoplifters are there to protect those personnel, both from physical violence by the perpetrators and from retaliation/punishment by their employer for not being willing to risk their life for minimum wage.
I agree, I think they're suggesting the laws should allow security to deck them, and pay them £25 an hour. Which would be optimal with the correct training.
And would almost immediately end up with someone doing it wrong, a huge lawsuit and then them not doing it that way.
There would have to be significant training as would be expected of a 60k job that should massively reduce occurance of this happening. Better than how it is now.
What a depressing thread. How easy would it be to identify these twats though and find a way / legislate a way to reduce / remove whatever ‘benefits’ the state may provide for them? They clearly don’t want to be a part of any decent functioning society (sorry, ‘actively’ don’t want to be…) so what penalties would work? Housing benefit / credits / future pension entitlements? Seriously, how do we address this? And, no, Farage and his ilk isn’t any answer to anything. In the meantime, f*** these twats
Literally no point in having security.
Its so important that shit like this is absolutely stamped on. If you tolerate low level theft, slightly higher level crime becomes more prevalent. And then so on and so forth. It's the absolute bedrock of a functioning society that crime like this should be punished
And yet Reddit bursts at the seams with enlightened morons saying that "if you see someone stealing from a large corporation, no you didn't", then they wonder how this all came to be.
I agree with both of you but think there is a line between someone quietly nicking a sandwich or small amount of food cos they need it, and folk filling sports direct bottles with spirits in front of security
Then you'll see them complaining that food costs are so high because these companies are factoring in theft to their costs.
Everyone should be allowed to take down these idiots because in the end we all pay for it with prices rising to cover the costs. After a few supermarket brawls surely something would change.
At least they have security unlike most express who don't and only 2 members of staff most of the time.
Just put a uniform on mannequins! Cheaper and useful!
Like the cardboard cutouts!
I work for a smaller competitor. We have had the very same happen countless times. We don't have any security (not that it matters) Thieves fully understand that we cannot intervene. They target the small convenience store I work at because it is primarily staffed by middle aged women, the thieves threaten and frankly terrify them. The police give us crime numbers and nothing more. And the company I work for regularly chide the store management for the amount of loss we incur. Like it's our fault? Lmao. I used to feel awful after a large theft where we basically watched them leave the store with bags of goods but one day I thought it through: I'm a poorly payed employee. It's not my stuff. The stuff may be insured (if it isn't, they make plenty of profit to cover the losses. The remote security cameras may as well be dummies The company have decided to put no security in place The company can bark about loss as much as they want If the company nor the police won't intervene, I definitely won't be giving a shit.
Might as well just scrap the security budget and give us all a pay rise
This makes me think that I work in a dodgy Tesco because I've seen the security guard absolutely body someone over a bag of coffee
When I worked in Asda and there was a couple of security guards there who loved the violent shoplifters as it meant they could get violent too
Security in stores is a joke, I walk past them with bags full of unpaid food every week 🤷♂️🤣
Feel for the Asian worker because he gets lumped in with all the degenerates like that
So why do people use food banks if Tesco is free and the police do fuck all?
This country is fucked.
Stop noticing the patterns guys. It's very offensive!! Bad person !
Ah Yiewsley, don't ever change... Wait. Scrap that. Please change. For the Gods. Please.
Song in the background is 'runaway'
Security can stop them, that's written into common law. But store policy is not to.
Ok so what’s security there for?
What's the point of having security guards
Just give them masks, a decent wage and carte blanche to fuck people up. Personally I want to see more skulls get cracked.
Fuck me, this country's going to Hell in a hand cart.
Clown world we live in. Ladies and gents you’re all right with this?
This isn’t dramatic. But society doesn’t work if stuff like this is considered ‘ok’.
Where's Dale Winton..
What happened to using one of the bottles they’re stealing to smash their thieving heads in with. Bottle the scum then use the smashed glass to slash their throats. 3 less asylum seeking pricks.
Average in uk
Ah, cultural enrichment.
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Rotherham grooming gang stocking up again?
See refuge immigration is beneficial to society.....these are the percussion cases who fled France.......
This Is England.
I'm sure these comments will be absolutely delightful, because we all know that white people don't shoplift.
I know I am late but I really hope that people see this. Security Officers aren't legally allowed to physically intervene in a situation beyond the means of a normal citizen (i.e. citizens arrest) and aren't trained in Physical Intervention, when completing the prerequisite qualification necessary to obtain a SIA Licence. Door Supervisors are trained in Physical Intervention, and can operate as a Security Officer, using their Door Supervisor licence. However when completing the role of a Security Officer they aren't allowed to use Physical Intervention. A Security Officer can not complete the role of a Door Supervisor. It's not that they don't want to they aren't allowed to, typically aren't trained to either.
I saw a lad nick a big bottle of Jack Daniel’s in Asda. The security guard wasn’t allowed to touch him so I chased him across the car park shouting “you thieving cunt!” He put the bottle down and told me to “just take it”. I returned the bottle and felt like a fucking hero 😂 In retrospect I should have chased him around for longer as he was shitting it. It would have been funny to fuck with him. Thieving little prick
The degradation of the morals of society. Even if security did detain them the police wouldn't turn up and even if by some miracle they did come the courts wouldn't be allowed to sentence them properly. This country is a joke and if some action is not taken soon this cancer will spread and stores will close just like America.
My father whose 79 and grew up in a tough area always laughs when people idolize the past and talk about how the morals of society are declining. It's bollocks, bad stuff has always happened and it's no more or less brazen than it ever was.
I only see future doctors, engineers, astronauts.
I’m just confused Muslim (?) people are stealing alcohol..?
Definitely not, these look like Roma gypsies or suchlike
Not even a decade ago during my time at Sainsbury's we would have got stuck in with shoplifters. It was the wild west at times and surprised none of us got seriously hurt or arrested. Alot of companies now discourage getting hands on. At Morrisons one guard got jumped after work by Pykies after stopping them robbing the shop and I got written warnings twice for confronting shoplifters (this was only 3-4 years back). At the end of the day the police ain't coming they have essentially given ground to low level criminals and offences like shoplifting and ASB.
14 years of tory reign, and what do we get... thugs like these roaming shops terrorising staff and customers, it's a shambles that our public services are in the state they are by the criminal negligence of the government, meanwhile all their mates lined their pockets at every chance.
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So true a white British native would never ever commit a crime like this /s
Those metaphysicians are at it again…
Engineers and doctors
Common law act 1967 - A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
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To be fair, I've seen local white people do it more where I live.
as terrible as this scene is, i much prefer this to then alternative which is getting physical and somebody getting hurt shops are insured for this very thing, the criminals arent there to cause harm to people theyre there to thieve which is terrible as i stated but as long as theyre not injuring people im much less bothered by it.
Cultural enrichment, diversity is our strength
Yeah because white people dont steal do they.
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Security is pointless and I don't blame the security staff cause why get involved when your paid min wage often at best. No way if I was security risk getting hurt or even killed for the same money as someone who flips burgers my friend said the same to me once and he works security for a supermarket it's all to make people feel safe and to help her insurance.
When I worked in retail one of the first things they told us during training was that we weren't allowed to confront/touch/go after shop lifters. You could lose your job for it. Obviously they don't want to risk being sued for anything (either us getting injured on the job or us hurting them or mistaking someone from a shoplifter who isn't) but honestly nobody wanted to anyway. We weren't getting paid enough for that! Filming them however, DOES seem to make a difference. In my hometown there have been quite a few shoplifters prosecuted recently because they were repeat offenders, because they had footage like this and bodycam footage from security... So as shit as it is to let them just walk away, this video probably made a big difference in helping police build a case against them. It's clearly not their first time.
Winds me up so much, I know its not worth the risk intervening. But why should I or my colleagues work our asses off for a shit wage while it becomes increasingly acceptable to just brazenly stuff your bags with goods.
Something like this happened in the Sainsburys near me the other night and the security literally rugby tackled the bloke to the ground and sat on him to the police turned up. The Jack Daniels went flying and nearly took an old lady out.
Failed society. A friend of my family is a manager at Iceland and it breaks every rule going but he always chases shoplifters and takes their stuff back. Even ended up going down the local pub after work where they were fencing the stock.
They are told to stand there and not get involved and wait for the police.
I work nights at Tesco and this is an almost daily occurrence. The security guards are not allowed to touch them and on two separate occasions where they lock the front doors two different security guards have been assaulted. Alternatively they run out of the fire doors now. In my store we were actively told to ignore and not engage otherwise disciplinary action would be taken out against us.
Tesco would sack them if they stopped them
A lot of retail shops instruct security not to attempt to detain. Working hospitality is different. I worked as a bouncer in Glasgow for about 10 years, did occasional retail shifts. There's different kind of license, security guard or door supervisor, but door supervisor can do security work too. Always wanted to try for close protection but could never rustle up enough money.
Store policy is - let them leave
Every little helps mate
lol
They haven’t actually committed a crime in this video. It’s not until they attempt to leave without paying that there’s an issue.
Government raises prices and steals from us but when it's the other way around people lose their shit. I hate humanity
Issue them with a Billy Club, then I'd do that job in a heart beat. Black miria for the lot of them.
Welcome to Great Britain this is totally fine
15 years ago those guys would have been floored by the staff, not even security guards. We didn’t stand for this shit even back then.
Absolute disgrace
Why are they taking stuff from the bottom shelf?
Well, that explains the new obscene security cupboards down the alcohol aisle in Wembley.
You forgot your stamps! (no one will get this reference.)
They (perpetrators) know that police will do nothing about it, even with clear video and cctv evidence. They (security), know they will either get injured or prosecuted if they try to intervene physically and aren't paid enough for this shit anyway.
2 tier policing 🖕🖕🖕
Was always the Poles here in the Christmas period. They'd load up a shopping trolley or two and then bolt out the door, full of booze and cuts of meat. Back before there were barriers everywhere.
Why can't they use man catcher sticks? Obviously not the ones with spikes that grab by the throat, but one that locks around the persons limbs or their torso, with a bit of padding to minimize damage from the struggle. Seems absolutely stupid they can't physically interfere.
Security aren't allowed to touch them. However, their faces are everywhere so they will be caught by police. They have a criminal shade about them...
Glad the security didn’t do anything stupid, they’d lose their jobs and potentially get stabbed. They are not paid anywhere near enough to get involved in that
Factoring that we police spike consent soon because there’s not enough police/security paid well enough for the dangerous work. Something something something 14 years Conservative government something something
Security cant do anything. Get paid next to nothing and likelihood they would have to forcibly restrain the guys for best part if a day before any police arrived