That disguise kit would pretty much be a straight upgrade from stock if you kept the 2 minutes in mind (assuming you don't stab, shoot, or die during those 2 minutes). I think there should be a more meaningful downside to it, tho I'm unsure of what it would be.
Same but that was the only one I can think of, cause what else can it be there ? Disguise without cosmetics/stock guns or not being able to disguise some classes but that defeats half the purpose of it.
I was thinking that you could have a lot more meter depletion when you take damage while invisible, but that also defeats the purpose of the sneaky spy playstyle.
It's a genuinely good concept, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to give it a good downside
Nah, that would be annoying to get caught in the opening where you had to swap to knife to be able to shoot. I like the idea of cloak draining faster, similar to the Y.E.R
I think you need some pretty gnarly downsides for something that will buff spy this much (not being able to trust bumping people anymore). What if instead it replaced the invis watch, but you don't turn invisible anymore you just get to pass through enemies/buildings. that way the major downside is you lose invisiblity and by keeping its inability to stab while the watch is active, you can avoid the inevitable spaghetti from stabbing while inside someone
Since a disguise isn't meant to completely fool people, you'd probably just think about how long a disguise typically lasts, then limit it to *only* that time.
Two minutes is so much time to do whatever you want.
Oh oh i have a idea. It should consume half or all of your clock meter with a disguise which would stack with YER and have it act like the pre-jungle inferno version
Perhaps a perma-timer? Not just 2 minutes per disguise, 2 minutes *total* disguise time, before you have to return to spawn for a resupply to reactivate it. To add tension, and also reference the cigarettes, perhaps the timer is not shown. Then one is constantly at risk in the later half of the timeframe of losing their disguise and dying for it. It’s far from a perfect fix, but it would mean that spies have to be very conscious of disguise time, and they either have to be willing to constantly journey back to spawn (unless they die) or risk their life for more significant plays.
What if it were a "Disguise meter" that depletes while disguised, recharges while not? That way you can't be perma-disguised, and it doesn't break (nor get broken by) the YER.
Same thing with the dead ringer, as long as you aren’t fresh, you should know fully well how to detect it. Spy is screwed over in most aspects anyway lol
That’s not true, the issue with the dead ringer is people using wrong and like a get out of jail free card. It’s the same as disguises, people use it wrong and then complain that it doesn’t work
It essentially means if the spy is in melee range, there's literally nothing you can do to prevent a trickstab unless you are faster, or can drop his HP to 0 before he phases thru to finish the stab.
I think if this took place of your cloaking watch(talking about pic 1) it would be a good downside. So you can never cloak, but also it'd be super easy to sell the disguise because no collision. Maybe no need for limited disguise duration.
I'm a spy main and facestabs are 100% real???? A lot of people are overeager to call any kind of trickstab a facestab, but facestabbing still is a thing that does happen due to lag shenanigans, albeit very rarely. Also, any competent team will shoot you to spycheck way before you get close enough to bump them, and any competent spy will be able to avoid bumping most of the time while acting anyway...
when a player is going out of their way to not bump into me, obvious spy lol. plus going through enemy would allow u to get better stabs. face stabs are just lag issues like you said, it might look one way but the hitreg is legit.
Someone had mentioned an interesting way to balance this is to keep the two minutes but keep it 2 minutes total until you go back to the resupply cabinet.
First one is a straight upgrade into something that's not really that important (don't get me wrong, not being able to collide is useful but only against the classes you're disguised as is not that big) a bit like the third degree. The second one is really not worth the downsides, -30% cloak duration is already a really big minus.
When it comes to disabling collisions you also gotta ask yourself, what happens if you decloak when you're in someone, is that a "tele frag"?, because that would be busted and not fun to play against at all.
\*\*The perfect disguise:\*\*
You cannot collide with the team you are disguised as
-Disguise only lasts for 20 seconds
-Getting hit will remove your disguise
-Upon losing a disguise you are marked for death for 3 seconds
\*\*YER\*\*
-Removed disguise cloak penalty
-Clock duration penalty reduced from 33% to 15%
\*\*The untouchable\*\*
You cannot collide with enemies while invisible
-15% decrease in clock duration
-10% increase in cloak refill time
-25% clock recharge from ammo boxes
\*\*New changes to Spy\*\*
+Press SHIFT to "run" at your normal speed (this fixes being stuck with soldier, heavy and demo while trying to backstab)
+Sappers can now be throw with the reload key (6 seconds cooldown)
These ones are good. On the disguise one I'd lower that time so the player has to take really good decisions to succeed - two minutes is a very long time in TF2.
It'd be cool if Sentries still detected you while disguised. Not actually shooting at you, just chirping and pointing in your direction. I think it'd make it a bit more balanced tbh
If playing on VSH/FF servers has taught me anything, is that being able to get stuck inside of enemies on purpose is kinda broken. If the backstab mechanics fail to give you the kill, you get to butterknife and essentially root enemies for as long as you're alive, and depanding on how you get stuck inside of them, the enemy might be forced to use melee in desperation instead of guns. Oh and how could I forget: This would DEFENITLY get abused to hell and back, especially with (aim)bots. 12 invisible bots decloaking perfectly to get a backstab "inside of you" before you can react, and if that fails they use the Ambassador to finish the job.
"Telefrags" exist for a reason.
I think kit should give you a random disguise; its tiny ass pack, there's ONE button inside to activate kit. You can change disguise only after like 30-60 seconds.
If "unit" means player model that would completely break backstabbing, just by the way source engine works, if you are inside a player and u left click u pretty much always backstab. The watch seem like a better idea.
Ngl I feel like that watch has weird downsides. I feel like instead of the first two I would 2x cloak drain rate when going through enemies.
Also another question would be: what happens if you go visible/loose disguise when inside of enemy player? Because usually thats a telefrag - which if thats the case would be really broken(unless it was the spy that would die everytime *^(unless he is inside the scout)*)
Am I crazy or is the 2 minute timer function less? You really shouldn't be in one disguise that long, and even if you are you can just find a safe corner and hit swap
I'm not bashing you or the idea by the way, i just think you need a different downside.
Is there anything stopping you from just disguising again after the time runs out? Otherwise the downside is more of a minor inconvenience that barely ever changes the course of the game
Definitely would need to put some restrictions on attacking right after passing through someone as it would otherwise be too easy to run through someone, flip a 180 then stab them, doubly so if you’re running YER
I have an idea for a spy revolver that's basically a prop, it allows you to "shoot" while in disguise - projectiles and all - that can also impact friendly units but it has no damage or knockback.
I really like the watch. However, the disguise thing shluld definetely get a bigger drawback. Usually, a spy will sticn to his disguise for only a bunch of seconds
since you can phase through enemies with these while cloaked/disguised, i wonder what would happen if they decloak or undisguise whilst inside an enemy model
I feel like the Untouchable would be really good with the L’Etanger. I think you should balance it by changing the cloak duration to -50% but making it so you turn invisible immediatly upon activation.
make the disguise last 20 seconds roughly and make it so spy cant attack while disguised. If you clip inside somebody it will almost always be a backstab and will be infuriating to play against
I don't think that the disguise kit is very balanced because if you're using The disguise kit well you're only disguised for a few seconds at max I would probably put a downside more on the lines of a timer between switching disguises kind of like the your internal reward but you're disguising is on a meter like The invis watch but all things considered I really like the concept of the watch in this although I would rename it to the phase watch but I actually really like this concept
The Perfect Disguise would be disgusting because of Spies walking through you and instantly getting a backstab.
The only way it could work is if you had to wait 3 or more seconds after breaking the disguise to backstab someone.
The watch is fine though, since you can't stab while invisible.
Unfortunately no collision disguises will not typically be used to fool people... but rather just to phase through them for an easy backstab positioning. Generally people do not spycheck by collision.
The watch is interesting but feels like a crutch. One of the first things you learn as a spy is how to walk paths where you are less likely to collide with people. So it feels like a strong downgrade instead of a sidegrade. I would only see it useful if I was trying to move around the enemy spawn a lot or leach off a dispenser unnoticed. Still the better option there is to just use the cloak&dagger.
That disguise kit would pretty much be a straight upgrade from stock if you kept the 2 minutes in mind (assuming you don't stab, shoot, or die during those 2 minutes). I think there should be a more meaningful downside to it, tho I'm unsure of what it would be.
Same but that was the only one I can think of, cause what else can it be there ? Disguise without cosmetics/stock guns or not being able to disguise some classes but that defeats half the purpose of it.
I was thinking that you could have a lot more meter depletion when you take damage while invisible, but that also defeats the purpose of the sneaky spy playstyle. It's a genuinely good concept, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to give it a good downside
Can't fire primary weapon until you're undisguised, maybe?
That's a pretty good downside, actually.
Nah, that would be annoying to get caught in the opening where you had to swap to knife to be able to shoot. I like the idea of cloak draining faster, similar to the Y.E.R
just bind a key to undisguise you? you can do it via console or disguising yourself as a friendly spy
Most spies never use their gun anyways
Cannot disguise while invisible.
no random crits
would kill the weapon
I think you need some pretty gnarly downsides for something that will buff spy this much (not being able to trust bumping people anymore). What if instead it replaced the invis watch, but you don't turn invisible anymore you just get to pass through enemies/buildings. that way the major downside is you lose invisiblity and by keeping its inability to stab while the watch is active, you can avoid the inevitable spaghetti from stabbing while inside someone
Suggestion: no time limit, but add “Switching to primary or melee ends disguise” to prevent backstab jankiness
Random disguise with a cooldown
Maybe Randomized Outfits?
suggestion for disguise kit: no flinching when getting hit, but your teammates can also hit you
Since a disguise isn't meant to completely fool people, you'd probably just think about how long a disguise typically lasts, then limit it to *only* that time. Two minutes is so much time to do whatever you want.
happy cake day
Thanks!
Oh oh i have a idea. It should consume half or all of your clock meter with a disguise which would stack with YER and have it act like the pre-jungle inferno version
Friendly fire.
That should be the default disguise kit, the entire point of spy is to not get caught but 95% of his unlocks only come into play when he gets caught
Perhaps a perma-timer? Not just 2 minutes per disguise, 2 minutes *total* disguise time, before you have to return to spawn for a resupply to reactivate it. To add tension, and also reference the cigarettes, perhaps the timer is not shown. Then one is constantly at risk in the later half of the timeframe of losing their disguise and dying for it. It’s far from a perfect fix, but it would mean that spies have to be very conscious of disguise time, and they either have to be willing to constantly journey back to spawn (unless they die) or risk their life for more significant plays.
Perhaps putting delay before you attack? Like when you come out of cloak?
Damage vulnerability while disguised?
Maybe if you get damaged at all you lose cloak and your disguise
your own teams also sees you as enemy and the disguise enables friendly fire
What if it were a "Disguise meter" that depletes while disguised, recharges while not? That way you can't be perma-disguised, and it doesn't break (nor get broken by) the YER.
I was thinking disguises cost cloak while active, and running out of cloak while disguised triggers a loud sound like the Dead Ringer.
No matter what class you’re disguised as, you move at heavy speed
Then people would catch on to it within a week
Getting down voted for an idea? Damn. Well if that’s not going to work, maybe an audio que is played when the disguise is switched or ditched
It would make the item unusable to anyone who isn’t a fresh install
Same thing with the dead ringer, as long as you aren’t fresh, you should know fully well how to detect it. Spy is screwed over in most aspects anyway lol
That’s not true, the issue with the dead ringer is people using wrong and like a get out of jail free card. It’s the same as disguises, people use it wrong and then complain that it doesn’t work
Not colliding with the enemy team would make backstab jank even worse
It essentially means if the spy is in melee range, there's literally nothing you can do to prevent a trickstab unless you are faster, or can drop his HP to 0 before he phases thru to finish the stab.
And make spy checking enraging
Pyro exists
But doesn’t exist enough
The amount of knock on gameplay effects that effect everyone this loadout isn't considering makes it an insta no from me.
Add no random crits to disguise kit
What would a crit disguise do? Make you entirely become that person?
Change classes on the spot
What the fuck 😂
Identity theft is fun.
120 secs is a LOT
Yeah, I'm thinking 15, even 20 seconds would be enough
A 15 second window of time has space for a lot of trust to be built.
Crouch once and ill trust you with every cell in my body
The minecraft tactic.
Halo was probably the start of the universal language of crouching = trust me, 10 years before Minecraft.
Make the disguise 15 seconds
I think if this took place of your cloaking watch(talking about pic 1) it would be a good downside. So you can never cloak, but also it'd be super easy to sell the disguise because no collision. Maybe no need for limited disguise duration.
Who spy checks on collisions? It'd mostly be used for aggressive facestabs. Basically a spy in melee range means you're dead.
face stabs aren't real, and bumping into enemies is the number 1 dead giveaway. do u play spy?
I'm a spy main and facestabs are 100% real???? A lot of people are overeager to call any kind of trickstab a facestab, but facestabbing still is a thing that does happen due to lag shenanigans, albeit very rarely. Also, any competent team will shoot you to spycheck way before you get close enough to bump them, and any competent spy will be able to avoid bumping most of the time while acting anyway...
when a player is going out of their way to not bump into me, obvious spy lol. plus going through enemy would allow u to get better stabs. face stabs are just lag issues like you said, it might look one way but the hitreg is legit.
You just need to be disguised while cloaked and use another watch
disguise only lasts 120 seconds is a very weird stat. Interesting concept though.
I think the disguise kit has merit but the duration is way too long. I'd drop it back to, like, 20 seconds.
Someone had mentioned an interesting way to balance this is to keep the two minutes but keep it 2 minutes total until you go back to the resupply cabinet.
First one is a straight upgrade into something that's not really that important (don't get me wrong, not being able to collide is useful but only against the classes you're disguised as is not that big) a bit like the third degree. The second one is really not worth the downsides, -30% cloak duration is already a really big minus. When it comes to disabling collisions you also gotta ask yourself, what happens if you decloak when you're in someone, is that a "tele frag"?, because that would be busted and not fun to play against at all.
Just add "no random critical hits" and valve will accept it
\*\*The perfect disguise:\*\* You cannot collide with the team you are disguised as -Disguise only lasts for 20 seconds -Getting hit will remove your disguise -Upon losing a disguise you are marked for death for 3 seconds \*\*YER\*\* -Removed disguise cloak penalty -Clock duration penalty reduced from 33% to 15% \*\*The untouchable\*\* You cannot collide with enemies while invisible -15% decrease in clock duration -10% increase in cloak refill time -25% clock recharge from ammo boxes \*\*New changes to Spy\*\* +Press SHIFT to "run" at your normal speed (this fixes being stuck with soldier, heavy and demo while trying to backstab) +Sappers can now be throw with the reload key (6 seconds cooldown)
These ones are good. On the disguise one I'd lower that time so the player has to take really good decisions to succeed - two minutes is a very long time in TF2.
Remove sapping while disguised, maybe make it so it can only be "recharged" by supply lockers?
What do you do when the spy becomes solid inside of an enemy?
It'd be cool if Sentries still detected you while disguised. Not actually shooting at you, just chirping and pointing in your direction. I think it'd make it a bit more balanced tbh
If playing on VSH/FF servers has taught me anything, is that being able to get stuck inside of enemies on purpose is kinda broken. If the backstab mechanics fail to give you the kill, you get to butterknife and essentially root enemies for as long as you're alive, and depanding on how you get stuck inside of them, the enemy might be forced to use melee in desperation instead of guns. Oh and how could I forget: This would DEFENITLY get abused to hell and back, especially with (aim)bots. 12 invisible bots decloaking perfectly to get a backstab "inside of you" before you can react, and if that fails they use the Ambassador to finish the job. "Telefrags" exist for a reason.
Disguise kit that makes each class have a ciggy in their mouth but makes it so you can perform one attack without breaking disguise
I think kit should give you a random disguise; its tiny ass pack, there's ONE button inside to activate kit. You can change disguise only after like 30-60 seconds.
The disguise kit would introduce a whole new kind of backstab jank.
Reduce perfect disguise to 30 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown between disguises.
If "unit" means player model that would completely break backstabbing, just by the way source engine works, if you are inside a player and u left click u pretty much always backstab. The watch seem like a better idea.
The new way of trickstabbing: Run throught your enemy and then stab them from behind-100% fair and balanced
“Perfect disguise” *disguises as a fast moving dispenser with legs*
Ngl I feel like that watch has weird downsides. I feel like instead of the first two I would 2x cloak drain rate when going through enemies. Also another question would be: what happens if you go visible/loose disguise when inside of enemy player? Because usually thats a telefrag - which if thats the case would be really broken(unless it was the spy that would die everytime *^(unless he is inside the scout)*)
I think cloak drain would be better than cloak duration.
not talking about the stats, i think coding that into tf2 would be (if possible) filled with bugs and glitches
Am I crazy or is the 2 minute timer function less? You really shouldn't be in one disguise that long, and even if you are you can just find a safe corner and hit swap I'm not bashing you or the idea by the way, i just think you need a different downside.
Is there anything stopping you from just disguising again after the time runs out? Otherwise the downside is more of a minor inconvenience that barely ever changes the course of the game
Definitely would need to put some restrictions on attacking right after passing through someone as it would otherwise be too easy to run through someone, flip a 180 then stab them, doubly so if you’re running YER
This is literaly not possible. It's basically a telefrag on demand as a weapon, you could even kill ubered players with this.
I have an idea for a spy revolver that's basically a prop, it allows you to "shoot" while in disguise - projectiles and all - that can also impact friendly units but it has no damage or knockback.
Press B every 10 seconds. Then you never lose the disguise.
I really like the watch. However, the disguise thing shluld definetely get a bigger drawback. Usually, a spy will sticn to his disguise for only a bunch of seconds
You could just walk strait through people to back stab them
The watch could use a slower speed penalty
ok who is staying disguised for 2 minutes 💀
Perfect disguise would only be balanced if you couldn't go invisible
op you have the art skills of a blind Van Goh who tried getting high on nutmeg and Benadryl
This was all I could do with a phone don’t judge me 🗿
How would the perfect disguise work paired with your eternal reward? Would the 120 seconds restart after every backstab?
since you can phase through enemies with these while cloaked/disguised, i wonder what would happen if they decloak or undisguise whilst inside an enemy model
congrats, you're a failure
The kit feels too op, I mean 120 seconds is a long time considering you get to your enemy in about 10-20 seconds
I feel like the Untouchable would be really good with the L’Etanger. I think you should balance it by changing the cloak duration to -50% but making it so you turn invisible immediatly upon activation.
make the disguise last 20 seconds roughly and make it so spy cant attack while disguised. If you clip inside somebody it will almost always be a backstab and will be infuriating to play against
How to create these?
Google tf2 weapon maker
120seconds is WAY too long
I don't think that the disguise kit is very balanced because if you're using The disguise kit well you're only disguised for a few seconds at max I would probably put a downside more on the lines of a timer between switching disguises kind of like the your internal reward but you're disguising is on a meter like The invis watch but all things considered I really like the concept of the watch in this although I would rename it to the phase watch but I actually really like this concept
Can’t backstab while disguised.
This really won't help my paranoia
Combining the Your Eternal Reward with the Perfect Disguise to have infinite disguise time
The Perfect Disguise would be disgusting because of Spies walking through you and instantly getting a backstab. The only way it could work is if you had to wait 3 or more seconds after breaking the disguise to backstab someone. The watch is fine though, since you can't stab while invisible.
Unfortunately no collision disguises will not typically be used to fool people... but rather just to phase through them for an easy backstab positioning. Generally people do not spycheck by collision. The watch is interesting but feels like a crutch. One of the first things you learn as a spy is how to walk paths where you are less likely to collide with people. So it feels like a strong downgrade instead of a sidegrade. I would only see it useful if I was trying to move around the enemy spawn a lot or leach off a dispenser unnoticed. Still the better option there is to just use the cloak&dagger.
i think being able to shoot ppl while disguised but it only lasts 10s + no backstabs + -25% less dmg while disguised would be great
yeah this sucks ass
Do not cook ever again!