I feel like unlock side would have some significant advantages. For example medic, although unlock mediguns aren't as strong as stock, they can charge quicker making fights more on unlock side. Most classes even perform BETTER when using unlock weapons over stock. Like spy or engineer.
It really all just comes down to the skill of each side, as stock is always the best choice in slot but unlockables shift the tide quite a bit.
I mean the rule here is 'can the unlock side swap midgame', like a team with a Demoknight is going to have a lot less flex than the default set up if they suddenly have to defend
TF2 did a decent job of making sure new weapons were more about new strategies or skills over just being upgrades
You know Demo has non demoknight unlocks he can use, right? So unlock demo isn't forced to go demoknight if it's unoptimal. Sure he's probably the only weak link on unlock side but quickiebomb isn't THAT bad and iron bomber is arguably better than stock so he can still pose a threat.
Yeah but that's the point, if the unlock team can switch it up, Unlock team have the advantage
If they can't, it's a gamble as Stock Team are built to handle anything in the game to a degree, vs say a combat engi build
I use the quickiebomb launcher over stock, but that's mainly for utility, since it can do everything that stock can to a good enough degree, and works better as a second primary or spam weapon when you can't pill it for the win.
I certainly disagree about spy performing better with unlocks than with stock. He certainly performs different and can cover certain situations better, but at loss of versatility. Because stock spy less relies on gimmics of his equipment and more on his skill overall. How you act, how you aim, how you position yourself, how you engage in combat. I don't say that unlock spy doesn't rely on skill thought, only that there a lot more gimmics which are not always helpful.
Most of the unlocks could be seen as straight upgrades or at least more versatile, spy-cicle offers you more survivability at the cost of a pick you *might* have gotten but that would have surely ended with you dead, and outside that it is pretty much just stock but without the ragdolls
Revolvers like Etranger or Diamondback will help spy position better or become a pocket sniper
The watches however could be the greatest downside The DeadRinger isn't really subtle and Cloak and Dagger is pretty slow
It depends if you're playing comp or casual. In a casual setting, a 250hp kunai spy with 5 crits stored will always be better than a sneaky spy, but if you're communicating with your teammates and your enemies are communicating, stock will come out on top
Yeah but in comp (6v6) spy is probably the last class you will be picking because spy already has lower impact on the objective than others, and he is countered by player skill, which means comp is basically a counter for spy.
Yes.
That's a yes of frustration after some random 1500 hrs soldier decides to spin around with the direct hit and delete you from existence, while you're cloaked.
Kritz isn’t even close to op, it’s an extremely situational sidegrade. Quick fix is op in 6v6, pretty dogshit in Highlander. Stock is by far the best medigun when it comes to larger games, and it really isn’t even close.
quick fix is super broken because of the super fast charging uber and also being able to rocket jump your medic out of danger. Kritzkrieg is pretty good but its something you have to use sparingly because its really easy to counter a kritz that doesnt catch you by surprise.
Unironically unlock side might even get to win with some skill issues disadvantage because they have some cracked unlocks that can carry like Vaccinator, Theory-Y made several videos and streams where he used it and it's insane how much you can get away with it.
Scout has tons of op support unlocks, soldier has his own op unlocks like gunboats to focus stock medic, Pyro is almost always reliant on unlocks, Demo is the only one that struggles with using unlocks only but ig he can go hybrid knight with iron bomber and shield or try to snipe with quickiebomb, heavy is reliant on unlocks, engy extremely so and all support classes rely on unlocks heavily.
"as stock is always the best choice"
ok so syringe gun is better than crossbow?
bat is better than atomizer?
revolver is better than diamond back?
etc etc.
bruh
Syringegun is a decent runaway weapon to use if you know what you're doing, revolver is doesn't have the damage penalty like the diamondback.
When I think of stock being the better weapon I think of the scattergun, flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc.
They are always the best choice because they are consistently reliable.
People underestimate the stock syringe gun. I've found good success with it, the Blut, an especially the Overdose.
Plus, stock bonesaw is just...good. Doesn't give Medics that weird urge to chase enemies for 25% uber, so you tend to play safer without that urge to go...run at the enemy.
>They are always the best choice because they are consistently reliable.
Those two statements aren't equivalent. In many situations, unlocks outperform stock. Who cares if the Amputator or Ubersaw have lower DPS than the stock variant? Or about the back-burner downside with infinite ammo (a dispenser)?
And is the stock scattergun even better than the soda popper?
Fair enough, diamondback relies on having spy literally just do his job and basically gets free crits. But I was saying in a situation where somehow you weren't already having crits it's probably going to affect you that penalty.
It's still about as good as stock in that situation tbh, it's like Enforcer vs Stock in a 1v1, even if the Enforcer started disguised, where the only significant disadvantage the Enforcer has is the firing speed (though the firing speed could be a potential advantage in a weird way, as it makes timing your shots a bit easier)
I don’t know, the default weapons aren’t slouches in my experience. Unlock weapons tend to have these bizarre twists on the base gun that at least makes you consider your options.
Usually a team's strength is down to its medic, and whilst stock Uber is great, unlock medic has Crossbow (excellent) and either a medigun that yeilds crits or heals way faster.
So I'm leaning to unlocks. They wouldn't win 100% of the time though
They kinda would win all the time imo, because even though kritz is riskier and less reliable, having jarate, wrangler, mad milk, crit cola, banners, etc more than make up for no stock uber and weaker scout, demo and soldier primaries
For meta? Almost all classes have unlocks replacing stock and if they don't, like Scout, it's because they banned most unlocks for being op.
Exceptions being Demoman who's stock is mad good and I guess Soldier?
Vaccinator alone can almost pull the entire unlock side to victory, check out Theory-Y videos on the vaccinator, it's THAT scarily good medi gun for medic
The vaccinator is not that op. It’s just annoying. Trust me, Theory would never use the vaccinator in competitive Highlander, or other large team formats.
He himself has said that stock is still better overall too, even though the vaccinator is crazy good. Those 8 seconds of invulnerability are just too good, it's why all the other mediguns have faster build rates. Vaccinator is also not the best medigun for every situation, but he has a lot of videos on this. Great channel, helped me immensely
Unlocks. A lot of the good stock weapons have replacements that are close enough like the airstrike panic attack, degreeser, iron bomber and quickie bomb launcher. Also most stock melee are pretty useless while unlocks gets all the good utility melee. Also some unlocks are just insane game changers like the battalions or crossbow.
Blud was WILDIN', saying airstrike is good 💀
Also I myself forgoe Original existed, meaning that unlock side only truly has weak demo since their unlock soldier can just use original with gunboats xD
Demo can reach about the same as Stock Demo with some unlocks. Iron Bomber is basically the same thing and Pain Train and Skullcutter are usable on explosives Demo. Only real issue is that you pretty much lose a lot of versatility on your stickies, since you have to specialize into either trapping or spamming.
Obviously unlocks? Stock may be better in most cases, but a team with unlocks is adaptive, they can pick out weapons to counter stock. Versatility is not to be underestimated
There's also the question of whether or not the team that has unlocked can change their equipment in the middle of a match or not. Like how Demoknight is better on Attack than Defense (depending on your sword at least).
Tf2 matches is very complicated just because you have some weapons doesn’t mean you have advantage.
Like what gamemode, what map, how many player, 6v6 comp, highlander, skill equal, pros only, average player, mix etc.
For instance, sniper bargain is definitely stronger than stock if play on 12v12 and above while struggle in 6v6 or pro highlander, Banner too.
Does "unlocks" imply every non-stock weapon? Then definitely that team. If it's specifically achievement unlocks, then the stock team definitely has some advantage.
That and the Crusaders Crossbow, which gives you a way to heal people at long ranges in a short amount of time. Also, the Quick Fix can be quite useful for keeping a whole team healed.
You technically dont need the pda. You only need the toolbox which is hidden stock weapon. If its not taken away you can build with console commands.
[more info here ](https://youtu.be/d9nqtSLOtyU?si=cmXvCIH-ewafei1c)
Unlocks… really this question is “Does every slot have some sort of unlock envy?” And I’d say for the most part
Scout: Soda popper/mad milk/wrap assassin
Soldier: Direct hit/Battalion/Escape Plan
Pyro: Degreaser/Flare/Powerjack
Demo: Iron Bomber/Scottish Resistance/Eyelander
Heavy: Tommislav/Sandvich/GRU
Engineer: Rescue Ranger/Wrangler/Jag
Medic: Vaccinator/Crossbow/Ubersaw
Sniper: Bizarre Bargain/Jarate/Bushwaka
Spy: DiamondBack/Deadringer/Kunai
Unlock side will win and it's not even close. Most classes have weapons that can make up for lack of Stock where providing extra utility or power (For example Scout has Soda Popper that is almost as good as Stock while also having Mad Milk or Pretty Boy's Pistol).
Only classes hurt by needing to use unlocks only is Demoman and even then he is still really strong and Medic that still has Vaccinator and Crossbow so.
In general I think the unlock side would be better. I think Demo is the closest as it can play a standard role with just stock. Solider is similar but missing gunboats and banners is probably worse than having to use a non-stock rocket launcher.
assuming a 12v12 equal skill, stock team doesnt really have a shot, they have a handful of really strong weapons in their slots, like the sticky bomb launcher and stock medigun
unlocks just has... like pretty much everything else equally viable or better, especially in melee weapons for most of the classes, medics loadout in general and soldier with a ton of versatility
Y'all are weird for picking Unlock side.
The only three classes that would be notably hindered by not having access to their unlocks would be Pyro, Heavy and Spy. Everyone else can manage and is really only missing out on one weapon change or something less meaningful.
The classes that would be actively ***harmed*** by not having access to Stock are:
-Scout
-Demo
-Engineer
-Medic
-Sniper
See how the classes I just listed off are *meta* classes with huge control over the flow of the game...? Yeah, you do not want to be on team unlock when their Scouts, Demos, Medics and Snipers are all underperforming.
If we talk about the personal comfort, I would go stock 10 out of 10 times.
If we talk in terms of winning at any cost, and there is no class limit, then the medic would be the final deciding factor, and in that case his unlocks provide an unfair amount of flexibility.
Let’s pretend that we have a highlander match with a single player per class presented and they’re re all equally skilled and competent at their job (btw that sounds tempting to see actually happening). They have to play 1 payload map, one 5cp and one attack/defence map.
Team stock: great damage output, they feel confident during the team fights, they have a level 3 sentry but it’s a little bit more challenging to keep it alive. The stock uber is an insanely strong tool that allows to achieve a lot if played wisely, can be used to counter everything else and nearly impossible to be countered itself. Without any surprises their main strategy would be based exclusively on building and exchanging the ubers. Which has always been a meta, and there are reasons behind it.
Team unlocks: even if we completely exclude reskins, pretty much every single stock item still has it’s near equal alternate that’s gonna be either 10-15% less effective, or provide even higher DPS, either cheesy ways to fulfill the objective/cheesy flanks, such as:
Soda popper, bonk, atomizer
black box/beggars/DH,
degreaser/phlog/scorch/thermal truster,
LNL/Iron bomber/quickie launcher/Scottish resistance/sticky jumper,
tomislav/brass beast
jag/gunslinger/short circuit/wrangler,
crossbow/kritz/vacc/quck-fi/ubersaw,
machina/heatmaker/huntsman,
big earner/kunai/DR
They are basically allowed to do everything in the same way, with one single exception - they have to counter the stock uber. So their only focus is to keep the enemy medic down, which could only be achieved with quantity (surprise Kritz, quck-fix spam) and the Vacc is gonna be their only defensive option which is not much.
The results are not surprising at all, since this strategy is basically a №2 most commonly applied meta used exclusively in attempt to counter the first one.
Unlocks.
I'm sorry, but with the kunai (a weapon that is surprisingly good when properly used), Vaccinator (no need to explain it), Jarate+bushwacka (1 hit kill on 8 classes), the wrangler (being the wrangler), Phlog (**DO I NEED TO SAY WHY?**) and Soda popper just massacre the other team.
If I had to choose what to use, stock. If we're talking about the image and who's winning then it's unlocks for sure because crossbow, jarate, mad milk and wrangler are the best weapons in the game. But I cannot give up scattergun, sticky bomb launcher and default shotgun on engineer. Other than melees I basically only use gunboats and crossbow as unlocks anyway. And I guess sandvich and flare gun if I actually played pyro, heavy and spy
The fact that the unlock team has options would probably swing it in their favour alone, but on top of that there are many unlock weapons that are better than stock in most scenarios (Boston Basher, Original, Escape Plan, Degreaser, Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Third Degree, Iron Bomber, Tomislav, Sandvich, Second Banana, KGB, GRU, FoS, Wrangler, Crusader's Crossbow, Ubersaw, Solemn Vow, Bushwacka, Diamondback, L'Etranger) that they'd probably win anyway.
A lot of unlock weapons can only really be countered by other unlock weapons, there are a lot of decent stock weapons but sidegrades would work around them
Unlock team would probably win, but at the same time stock Demo would be carrying the rest of the stock team. Really depends on how the more powerful-by-default classes play.
Almost every class barring maybe spy and maybe Scout, does in some way benefit from using unlocks over stock.
Engineer & Medic both have unlocks that are essentially busted. They lose nothing by going with unlocks over stock because of how ridiculous some of their unlocks are.
Soldier has game-changing banners that provide infinitely more versatility than his shotgun and if you really miss the consistency of the stock rocket than you can just use The Original instead.
Heavy's lunchbox unlocks are basically mandatory in most matches. The fists of steel are also pretty top tier and the tomislav is a perfect sidegrade to the stock minigun.
Sniper in general is stupid OP in almost every regard unless you're just dicking around with The Classic.
Demoman has this weird thing going on where you could swap out his stock weapons with certain unlocks and basically nothing would change because the stat changes are either negligible or non-existant. But to prefice, almost all of his melee's are better to use than stock, and if you really want to, the Scottish Handshake is there. (God I wish they made a strange version of it)
Scout; while I believe none of sidegrades are better than stock shotgun, still has a lot of versatility with his secondaries and hell even his melee's.
Spy honestly might be the only who "kind of" suffers from the lack of consistency that stock would normally provide. His sidegrades are overall pretty gimmicky like his watch sidegrades and a lot of his knife unlocks. You could argue the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle are both a good get-out-of-jail free card but than you've lost your main method of insta-killing so you're relegated to gunning from a distance and have no ability to go invis.
This depends ENTIRELY on what the unlocks are obviously, but I'm going to narrow it down and try to give my thoughts on each match-up for stock vs ACHIEVEMENT items.
Scout: scout would lose his consistent damage output, as well as lose out on some health, but could use the bonk to get past the stock team and take focus away from the front.
Soldier: The direct hit would remove much of the soldiers crowd control, but make him the bane of light classes. His melee is largely useless, but this is mirrored in stock. His banner, however, could turn the tide of the fight in an instant, provided he's good enough with the direct hit.
Pyro: The back burner doesn't exactly change much, other than making the flaregun combo a bit more expensive to pull off. The axetinguisher would still work the same, and honestly nothing much would change from the stock pyro, other than not being able to effectively fight his counterpart.
Demoman: For Demo, I think it would make sense to use 2/3 unlockables, instead of just the Scottish resistance. Classic hybrid knight gameplay here.
Heavy: Could effectively hinder enemy scout, soldier, and demo, heal himself freeing up the medic, and in the event he can melee kill someone, crit himself. Thanks to soldier's banner, and the kritzkrieg (to be mentioned) the damage debuff on the natascha is largely made up for.
Engineer: The wrangler and mini sentry can be used effectively together, but along with the frontier justice means that you will be torn between controlling your sentry directly, possibly keeping out of range and dealing damage that way, or being aggressive with your minis to get the frontier justice crits. The lack of a level 3 gun means defense is certainly harder than normal.
Sniper: Huntsman. 'Nuff said.
Medic: UBERSAW. The Kritzkrieg would actually hinder the team a bit, since most classes already have a way of gaining crits, or doing more damage outright, and even soldier can boost the team's damage output. The lack of invulnerability would not only make pushing into sentry nests hard, but repelling advances difficult as well. The blutsauger could mean a more aggressive medic, however, but of course medic is medic. He heals.
Spy: I'll be honest, I forget if spy unlocks an achievement knife (pretty sure he doesn't) but the gameplay would change based on the watch. (I forget if you unlock the dead ringer, ik you unlock the C&D tho.) ambassador is solid if you hit your shots.
Overall? I'd say that the achievement items compliment a more aggressive play style that would pair well with king of the hill or payload race, but struggle in game modes that allow for bases to be set up and defenses dug in.
scout would be forced into neiche playstyles, soldier would be satanic, pyro could be hell on wheels, demoknight would be situational depending on the map, heavy would be consistent, engi would become a wall, medic + soldier = massacre, sniper and spy dont really matter
Unlocks side ofc? There's a reason almost all slots for each class have banned unlock.
Although I wish we had a gamemode where one team is forced to use stock like during item crash catastrophe of 2023 Vs team forced to use unlocks.
I mean seriously, only Stock Rocket Launcher, Stock Stickies pose any big threat not replicable by unlocks, stock Uber is strong but charges too slow compared to kritz or vaccinator(also vaccinator is cracked) and stock side doesn't have ubersaw or crossbow, so really, stock side can only win if they're allowed to spam soldier and demo xD.
In my opinion, some classes perform either better, worse or even when using stock or unlocks, so these are what I think uses best
Stock:
Scout (Stock Scattergun has the highest DPS, the Pistol having good mid range combat, and the bat being the bat)
Pyro (His flamethrower and shotguns are good at mid to close range, so a melee would rarely be used, but doesn’t have as much utility as say the Axtinguisher, Powerjack or Homewrecker)
Sniper (Sure Jarate is better than the SMG, but it’s good for mid to close range where the Sniper Rifle (For a more casual player) doesn’t really help)
Spy (Stock Revolver and Knife are the most consistent)
Unlocks:
Soldier (with his various types of weapons and banners, Soldier has the most benefit with unlocks)
Demoman (Without the help of unlocks, Demo can still be powerful, but with some weapons such as Half Zatoichi and the Shields, even the Base Jumper to Loose Cannon, it would be even better)
Heavy (Sandvich.)
Engineer (You can either play as a more combat oriented with the Gunslinger and Widowmaker or a more defensive with Short Circuit and Rescue Ranger)
Medic (Crossbow and Ubersaw)
Let's evaluate class by class:
Scout: Soda popper is arguably better than stock and every other slot 100% goes in unlock's favor. Like most classes, Scout's stock melee is useless and so getting utility is basically a straight upgrade, and while the pistol isn't useless, the winger is just as good in situations you need it and Scout has really strong utility in that slot.
Soldier: Probably breaks even. Stock rocket launcher is really strong and none of the alternatives really compare but the banners are crazy, and the escape plan is easily best in slot. Overall performance probably comes down to how well unlock Soldier plays around whatever's wrong with the launcher they pick.
Pyro: No contest, degreaser and backburner cover Pyro's two main use cases, and unlike a lot of classes those use cases are different enough that you generally know which one you'll need in any situation. Flare guns are a game changer and the hammers are the thing that makes Pyro's melee slot useful.
Demoman: Stock is stronger. Quickiebomb launcher and iron bomber are unlock's strongest picks and it's basically discount stock. Melee is more or less inconsequential, pick the katana I guess for occasional miracle saves.
Heavy: Unlock is better. Lunchboxes are a staple for a reason, the tomislav is meta, and utility melees are useful as always.
Engineer: This can go one of two ways but overall unlock is probably stronger. Engineer can go with discount stock and go panic attack/southern hospitality or flex off into something more specialized. Discount stock probably performs slightly worse than real stock but unlock Engineer makes up for it with utility.
Medic: Stock uber is really strong but vaccinator is also very strong and having access to crits or better overall healing when needed is enough to probably at least break even. Crossbow is arguably the single most game-changing unlock in the game and the ubersaw is the ubersaw. Unlock Medic wins.
Sniper: Secondary and melee obviously goes to unlock but it's not that big a difference maker all things considered. Stock rifle is very good, but machina is discount stock and works more or less fine for that, with the option to go bazaar bargain (if the sniper is good), sydney sleeper (if they really aren't) or huntsman if there aren't good sightlines taking it for unlock.
Spy: Having to use either dead ringer or cloak and dagger isn't great but the diamondback is very strong and the kunai or big earner are good depending on how competent the enemy team is. Stock is be better if the enemy team is smart enough to not get caught by the silly gimmicks Spy's unlock watches force him into but unlock Spy has popoff potential. Also the red-tape recorder is a joke but fits unlock Spy's optimal playstyle of being really annoying.
Overall I think unlock takes it but stock definitely has some advantages, like stock uber, stronger demo, better rockets, and a spy that isn't forced into gimmick playstyles. In a 6s style competitive environment that might actually push it into stock winning too, but in a casual or highlander style format unlock is definitely stronger.
Unlick, not because the stocks suck, in fact they are better in most cases, but because of the team variety in actually having different loadout options.
I would prefer unlocks, although they have disadvantages, unlocks can do all the stuff that stock weapons do, but with advantage or disadvantage in some more or less rare cases.
Classes in order and which version is stronger:
Scout: unlocks, scattergun is the strongest but soda popper isn't far behind and mad milk is ridiculously good
Soldier: unlocks, original is technically an unlock and they would also have a whip or escape plan and gunboats
Pyro: unlocks, stock flamethrower is great, but degreaser is also really good and the nostromo napalmer is also technically an unlock. If unlocks needs a shotgun then the reserve shooter and panic attack both are viable alternatives while they also have access to spam with detonator and scorch shot
Demo: stock, but not by too much, the grenade launcher and the iron bomber are very similar weapons, stock stickies are one of the strongest weapons in the game but quickies are also very strong. Melee would have both using a bottle as the unlocks still has the Scottish handshake
Heavy: unlocks, sandvich.
Engineer: unlocks, wrangler.
Medic: unlocks, stock medigun is fantastic, but unlocks have extremely good stalling power with kritz, quick fix, and vaccinator, they may struggle on attack but stock medigun's defence is also weaker than its attack
Sniper: unlocks, bazaar bargain is an amazing weapon in general, but also the awper hand is technically an unlock. Jarate is far better than the smg, and the kukri can be replaced with the bushwhacka
Spy: unlocks, if the spy can manage to get backstabs then the kunai keeps them alive for chain stabs while the dead ringer gives them a way out, the diamondback provides a safety net by making the spy do meatshot damage out of a revolver. If the spy can't get backstabs then the cloak and dagger outclasses the invis-watch for info gathering and the ambassador in the hands of someone with good aim is much better at picking off weakened targets at range
Both technically because it depends on the skill of the players like if they’re both newbies then it’ll be a tie if they’re both skilled it’ll probably be a tie
Scout:
-Stock Scattergun and Soda Popper are fairly even. All others are generally downgrades.
-Pistol is a solid weapon to be sure but there's like four worthwhile alternatives so unlocks are overall better.
-Melee slot favors unlocks, easily.
Soldier:
-Stock Rocket Launcher is generally the best but unlock Soldier can just use the Original instead. Factor in the Direct Hit and I'd say this slot favors unlocks.
-Likewise the shotgun is really good but for unlocks the Panic Attack is an excellent alternative on top of tons of other options so stock loses put here too.
-Give me one good reason to use soldier's stock melee.
Pyro:
I'm not even gonna break this down by slot Pyro's whole deal is that he's not particularly good at any one thing with his stock loadout and specializes into various niches using unlocks so just give this to the unlocks across the board.
Demoman:
-Grenade launcher and Iron Bomber are about even. The rest are downgrades. Tie.
-Stock Stickybomb Launcher handily beats out all alternatives.
-The bottle is often considered best simply for consistency but that's really only on regular Demoman and with unlocks one can go Demoknight sooooo tie I guess?
Heavy:
-Same deal as Scout and Demo, stock and Tomislav are about even while the rest don't really factor in.
-Sandvich and Banana put any shotgun on Heavy to shame.
-No reason to use stock melee with so many good unlocks.
Engineer:
-For as boring as it is the stock shotgun might just win here. The Panic Attack doesn't work well as a primary and everything else has downsides that make them a little too situational to compete.
-Wrangler exists.
-Jag's swing speed bonus practically negayes its downsides.
Medic:
-Crusader's crossbow is easily his best so-called primary.
-Unlocks can't quite measure up to the stock Medigun.
-Ubersaw, Amputator, or even the Solemn Vow are better than Stock.
Sniper:
-Bazaar Bargain or Hitman's Heatmaker work just as well as if not better than stock.
-Secondary and Melee slots are a package deal; individually the SMG and Kukri could measure up to the Jarate and Bushwacka but put the latter two together and unlocks win hands down.
Spy:
-I'd like to say the stock measures up to the L'etranger and Ambassador but unfortunately the Diamondback exists and largely obsoletes stock.
-Stock sapper clearly wins.
-Stock knife is in the same position as the revolver. Fair trade for most other knives but then the Spy-cicle exists and generally does its job better.
-Although the Dead Ringer is a good alternative nothing beats the stock watch.
So if I'm counting correctly that's 19 slots that favor unlocks, 5 that favor stock, and 4 ties. By class, most are better with only unlocks, but stock Demoman is all around better and Spy is about 50/50 in either direction.
Unlockables have most of the meta weapons, and most stock melees suck compared to unlocks for all classes except Medic, Demoman, and Sniper (Medic, Demoman, and Sniper actually make use out of their melee weapons as a melee weapon).
Atomizer and Mad Milk for Scout.
Banners, Escape Plan, and Disciplinary Action for Soldier.
Phlog, Scorch Shot, Powerjack, and Back Scratcher for Pyro.
Iron Bomber for Demoman.
Tomislav (but it's not that much of an advantage anyway), Sandvich, and GRU for Heavy. The big advantage is Heavy getting lunchboxes.
Wrangler and Southern Hospitality for Engineer (SH is a direct upgrade if random crits are not enabled since Pyros rarely go near a leveled sentry).
Crossbow, Vaccinator, and Ubersaw for Medic.
Jarate and Bushwacka for Sniper. Stock Sniper Rifle is arguably the best rifle anyway (most versatile), but the Machina exists (stock with more damage on a fully-charged shot and less subtlety). Still, all Sniper rifles do the same thing (they can one-shot certain classes and make players think twice about entering a sightline).
Ambassador, Le Entranger, Cloak & Dagger, and Kunai for Spy
Problem with this image here is that some of these weapons arent **unlock** weapons (actually, all of them except Engineer, some include weapons that are not achievement unlocks), they are random items, unlock items would be:
Scout: Force-Of-Nature, BONK! Atomic Punch, & Sandman
Soldier: Direct Hit, Buff Banner, & Equalizer
Pyro: Backburner, Flare Gun, & Axtinguisher
Demoman (who gets two secondary options and doesnt have a primary unlock): Scottish Resistance OR Chargin' Targe, & Eyelander
Heavy: Natascha, Sandvich, & Killing Gloves of Boxing
Engineer: Frontier Justice, Wrangler, & Gunslinger
Medic: Blutsauger, Kritzkrieg, & Ubersaw
Sniper (who is also in the same department as Demoman, except in Sniper's Case, he doesnt have a Melee Unlock): Huntsman, & Razorback OR Jarate.
Spy (same department as Sniper & Demo, except he only has a primary & watch unlock, no unique sappers or knives for him): Ambassador, & Cloak and Dagger OR Dead Ringer.
There are other unlocks that exist, mostly related to achievements from other games and the sort, but most of them are either functionally the same as Stock or are just Cosmetic.
Anyways, as to which team wins? Well, it really depends upon skill, as most people have already stated. Although as for the team with the highest advantage? Most likely Unlocks, but if Team Unlock doesn't know how to utilize said weapons properly or in a manner that highly benefits them, then Team Stock may come out on top.
Honestly depends on skill, if you were to get the top player per class, make an exact clone of them, then put them into a 9v9 Highlander, that point it would be fair. There are plenty of cases for and against stock only / unlock only
Depends fully on skill of the teams, but assuming they’re both the same skill level, i believe it would still go to the unlock team as although the stock weapons (except the syringe gun) are good, even great in some cases like the scattergun and stock minigun but the unlocks have more variety of items, including multiple counters for some of the stock weapons in the same way some stock weapons counter unlocks. But I still believe the unlockable weapon team would win
It depends. In comp the meta is almost entirely stock weapons except for scout melee being the Boston Basher, soldier melee being the Escape Plan, and medic using the crossbow and Ubersaw. In casual there’s a lot more room for variety with weapons that aren’t viable in comp but very good in 12 v 12 like the wrangler and short circuit, vaccinator etc.
Unlock side is on-par or better in almost all scenarios. The only class I could make an argument against is Demoman as the stock stickybomb launcher is kinda his best secondary option, but both the Quicky and the Scottish Resistance are good if you can play around it. Medic does get a slight honorable mention but unless teams can really coordinate focus fire (or have a good sniper / spy) the Quick Fix and Vaccinator ubers often operate on-par with stock Uber against anything that isn't a sentry, and you don't *need* Uber for sentries especially when you have the option of a Scout with Bonk.
Basically every class other than Demoman, Medic, and *maybe* Pyro (all flamers other than stock are worse at airblasting) have an option that's almost completely on-par with stock. Scout would have to get used to the Soda Popper but they could use the Pretty Boy's and any of the weapons that are better than the stock bat. Soldier could use Black Box, Reserve Shooter, and any weapon better than stock melee. Heavy has Natasha, Family Business (not that you aren't equipping a lunchbox), and anything better than stock melee. Engineer won't have a pistol but it's not like the Wrangler and Short Circuit are bad weapons. Sniper has Bazaar Bargain, Cleaner's Carabine (but let's be real you're going to bring Jarate or a backpack), and any melee that's better than stock. And Spy has the L'Etranger or Diamondback, Spycicle, Cloak-and-Dagger (worse stock watch with "infinite" cloak), and while the Red Tape sucks ass Spy doesn't need to be the main anti-building class.
Does reskins count as unlocks tho
I mean, you can get something like the Conscientious Objector from item drops so Demoman won't be stuck with subpar melees that either deploys too slow, inconsistent, or makes him more vulnerable to bullets.
Scout vs scout is entirely based on skill. A good scout with stock scatter and pistol is going to mess up unlock because of sustain and positioning. Only difference is melee. Don't think I've used the stock bat in my life because everything else is so much better (I miss the old sandman)
Scout vs everyone though? It doesn't really matter what set-up you play, that minisentry is going to ruin your day
I think the unlocks would win, the only real disadvantage would be scout not having stock and medic not having stock. But scout would probably use soda popper and medic could run Kritz or Quickfix, which would be a slight disadvantage but they could just play more aggressively
As a spy main, only unlocks. The YER is just too useful, and I can even become a god forsaken Kunai spy if needed. The diamondback is basically a straight upgrade, and the only downside would be the red tape recorder (unless you count reskins).
Unlock side POV:
1. Scout has a minor disadvantage, Soda Popper is still viable. It doesn't affect the match.
1. Soldier has a good advantage, the power of Gunboats or Banners give unlock side a higher chance of winning.
1. Pyro can spam Scorch Shot, also better flanks. Increased chance of winning for unlock side.
1. Demoman stays the same.
1. Heavy has a significant advantage.
1. Engineer has a significant advantage.
1. Medic has a significant advantage on RED. BLU medic is actually weaker without stock uber.
1. Sniper has JARATE.
1. Spy significant advantage as well.
Unlock side is very likely to win as RED and still has the upper hand as BLU.
Even though some stock weapons are better than unlocks, there is far more variety in unlocks than having to use the single stock weapon.
Ultimately, they have the advantage over stock weapons because they have a lot more to work with
Are reskins of stock weapons being counted as unlocks? If so than unlocks all the way, between the stock reskins and actual unlockable weapons you're pretty much set on any loadout you could need to use.
If reskins of stock are still considered stock, then I'd have to go with stock weapons, unlocks are almost always unless its like the Ubersaw or Sandvich, going to be situational whereas the stock weapons are the most consistent in any situation.
Demo and sniper are the only two classes where people regularly use all stock, every other class gains a lot of utility for melee, and barely loses anything for using sidegrades for primaries and secondaries. Unlocks win
Probably unlocks, because there are a couple unlocks which give massive advantages for certain playstyles or just generally "THE playstyle", and a lot of unlocks which are very much still within "stock but like -15% here and +15% there" range, meaning that the versitility of stock weapons is not fully lost to team unlocks.
An example would be soldier. I feel like most "normal" soldiers on the majority of popular maps are debilitated without the gunboats, so team stock is at a disadvantage with secondaries, but they don't lose out per se on primaries thanks to something like the direct hit or air strike not being much less versatile than stock.
Another example, medic. Obviously the syringe gun is outdone in every way by the Blutsauger, and the crossbow is a great boon when you have reliable teammates, and while the stock is the best medigun, using the others isn't any real loss, especially when you consider the fact that you charge earlier, which in the case of the kritzkrieg can lead to resetting the enemy medic down to 0%. Also the bonesaw just kinda exists when the ubersaw or the vitasaw actually provide an advantage in situations common for a medic (ie. Free Uber or respawn Uber for that spy who thought he was slick, but really actually just underestimated how you have everyone's back).
Simply, a few unlocks are better than stock, and virtually 0 stock weapons don't have a "close enough" unlock that doesn't make them about on par with stock 90% of the time. The one exception is probably the invis watch, assuming reskins count as stock, but really a spy is either irrelevant to the team effort, or not debilitated by using a different watch. Oh also the red tape recorder, but again, minor annoyance, it's not going to counter the advantages of team unlock.
Heavy Loses Sandvich.
That is literally all I need to know.
I understand the shotgun, but lets face it. Sandvich is game changing providing mobile rechargeable med packs. AFAIK it's the largest shared source of shared **burst** healing in the game especially on a class that doesn't normally get access to group support outside of just being "The guy everyone shoots first."
Unlocks. Most of the meta stock options have unlockable alternatives that are only slightly worse. Unlockable team has access to items that are straight up busted.
Probably the unlocks. A lot of unlock weapons are close enough to stock, i.e. the cow mangler, iron bomber, pretty boys pocket pistol, that the losses wouldn't be that major. The only weapons that would really be sorely missed would be the scattergun, the medigun, and especially the sticky launcher. Getting to use things like the bonk, vaccinator, crossbow, gunboats, etc. would more than even this out.
My yapping is professional and my reply is so large it wont upload. here's a post i did somewhere else instead. Fair warning it's longer than it has any right to be and most of it you already had in mind. You have been warned. [https://www.reddit.com/user/Generic\_mexican\_user/comments/1cqexko/reply\_to\_would\_you\_rather\_only\_have\_stock\_weapons/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/user/Generic_mexican_user/comments/1cqexko/reply_to_would_you_rather_only_have_stock_weapons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I mean demo scout, and sniper are unchanged med has stock Uber soldier has his best primary spy has his meta knife, engi has a decent load out I don't see a reason why stock would lose. Maybe because unlock soldier has gunboats but like that's it
Unlock and it's not even a question.
Scout's pistol and bat both have reskins and straight up better options. Only the scattergun represents an issue but the soda popper has little difference if the player's skill is the same.
Soldier never uses the stock shovel, the panic attack is the shotgun but better, and the original is just the rocket launcher (and even if reskins aren't allowed, the original still is because the rockets get launched differently).
I don't need to explain why stock pyro loses.
Stock demoman is the first actual challenge. Though the iron bomber and stock are pretty similar, stock still tends to be better in most situations. Still though, the sticky launcher is the real problem. You can come pretty close to the grenade launcher, but there is no replacement to the sticky launcher. It gives the stock team a fighting chance.
The stock minigun doesn't have any direct upgrades, but the tomislav comes very close. Plus iron curtain if you really wanna use the minigun. The shotgun and fists, again, need no explanation.
Engineer has the panic attack and the stock wrench barely ever gets used. Though I love the stock pistol, I'm also not gonna pretend that a wrangler or short circuit engie is gonna miss it too much.
Medic is another hard one, but weirdly enough I'd say he's easier to replace than demoman. The syringe gun and bonesaw are just bad, and though none of the mediguns are as powerful as stock, they have other advantages. The vaccinator allows for consistent smaller buffs all game long while the quick fix heightens the team's survival rate far beyond the normal medigun. Plus the unlock medics can defend themselves far better than the stock one, who needs to rely on his team to save him from far more mobile and unpredictable enemies. Though I expected him to be a hard choice, he really isn't.
Sniper on stock isn't too bad. The rifle and kukri are often the best, but the rifle falls into the minigun category, where it can be better but also the bazaar bargain would not make much difference. With the smg being useless, the reliance of bodyshots and melee damage are the things which make sniper's odds in this matchup really hard to predict. Even more so than medic I'd say.
Stock spy is incredible... but so is unlock spy. This is the class which relies almost entirely on skill, so weapon stats mean very little. It's very hard to say who'd be more effective, basically every weapon has it's own little playstyle and tiny set of tricks that come along with it. I'd say stock and unlock are pretty evenly matched here, with the odds even possibly tipping to stock's side. However, add reskins and stock spy is fucked, every single one of his weapons has a reskin except for the disguise kit.
In conclusion unlocks win through sheer numbers. Only 3/9 stock classes really give their counterparts a run for their money (demo, medic, spy). HOWEVER, there are some details OP did not mention. If you give the unlockable side reskins, they win no questions asked and no effort required. The unlock side being unable to use weapons without variants is also a possibility that, if reskins are allowed, can be ignored since it really only affects spy, but if there's no reskins, it cripples variant engineer and gives stock team a crazy advantage.
Regardless, I'd say unlockable team always wins. But these rules the post does not mention definitely makes it a more unpredictable fight.
Way I would go about it is go over each class and see which ones are stronger for what.
Scout - Stock because there's no good replacement for the scattergun, second and melee weapons aren't anything great
Soldier - Unlocks because you can replace stock rocket launcher with the original, Shotgun and shovel are what's left, shotgun is ok but limiting, shovel is ass.
Pyro - Unlocks, both are good but stock flame thrower and degreaser are more or less interchangable, option of powerjack wins this for unlocks.
Demo - Stock because stock stickies are just that good.
Heavy - Unlocks because of sandvich and fists, arguably tomislav too
Engie - Unlocks; Wrangler.
Medic - Unlocks, crits counter uber+you get the crossbow
Sniper - Unlocks, there are viable replacements for stock sniper rifle, unlocking options like razorback, darwin's, jarate, shahanishanashaashaakamehameha is worth it.
Spy - Stock, stock spy is solid and missing out on sapper is what decides it's probably better.
So it's 3 to 6, some could argue 2 to 7, unlocks win by just having better options, good question, next please.
I feel like unlock side would have some significant advantages. For example medic, although unlock mediguns aren't as strong as stock, they can charge quicker making fights more on unlock side. Most classes even perform BETTER when using unlock weapons over stock. Like spy or engineer. It really all just comes down to the skill of each side, as stock is always the best choice in slot but unlockables shift the tide quite a bit.
I mean the rule here is 'can the unlock side swap midgame', like a team with a Demoknight is going to have a lot less flex than the default set up if they suddenly have to defend TF2 did a decent job of making sure new weapons were more about new strategies or skills over just being upgrades
You know Demo has non demoknight unlocks he can use, right? So unlock demo isn't forced to go demoknight if it's unoptimal. Sure he's probably the only weak link on unlock side but quickiebomb isn't THAT bad and iron bomber is arguably better than stock so he can still pose a threat.
quickiebomb is very good, i like it and use it over stock
Just the fact it can destroy other sticky bombs makes it GOAT.
True and also it pisses off scouts when they're running away but you manage to nail them with a charged sticky
LOL
Yeah but that's the point, if the unlock team can switch it up, Unlock team have the advantage If they can't, it's a gamble as Stock Team are built to handle anything in the game to a degree, vs say a combat engi build
I use the quickiebomb launcher over stock, but that's mainly for utility, since it can do everything that stock can to a good enough degree, and works better as a second primary or spam weapon when you can't pill it for the win.
Demo has non-knight loadouts?
Of course! Like... Uh... Terrorist (Base Jumper, Sticky Jumper, Ullapool Caber).
NAAHHHH
That's a legitimate loadout and you can go blame Sondsmit for me remembering it
Not to mention If you really want better def then you can always use the Scottish Resistance.
All the lads forgetting about Scottish resistance :(
then theres the wrangler
I certainly disagree about spy performing better with unlocks than with stock. He certainly performs different and can cover certain situations better, but at loss of versatility. Because stock spy less relies on gimmics of his equipment and more on his skill overall. How you act, how you aim, how you position yourself, how you engage in combat. I don't say that unlock spy doesn't rely on skill thought, only that there a lot more gimmics which are not always helpful.
Most of the unlocks could be seen as straight upgrades or at least more versatile, spy-cicle offers you more survivability at the cost of a pick you *might* have gotten but that would have surely ended with you dead, and outside that it is pretty much just stock but without the ragdolls Revolvers like Etranger or Diamondback will help spy position better or become a pocket sniper The watches however could be the greatest downside The DeadRinger isn't really subtle and Cloak and Dagger is pretty slow
It depends if you're playing comp or casual. In a casual setting, a 250hp kunai spy with 5 crits stored will always be better than a sneaky spy, but if you're communicating with your teammates and your enemies are communicating, stock will come out on top
Yeah but in comp (6v6) spy is probably the last class you will be picking because spy already has lower impact on the objective than others, and he is countered by player skill, which means comp is basically a counter for spy.
Yes. That's a yes of frustration after some random 1500 hrs soldier decides to spin around with the direct hit and delete you from existence, while you're cloaked.
dead ringer and cloak and dagger have their flaws. invis watch is just perfect.
Quick fix and kritzkrieg are op in competitive
Kritz isn’t even close to op, it’s an extremely situational sidegrade. Quick fix is op in 6v6, pretty dogshit in Highlander. Stock is by far the best medigun when it comes to larger games, and it really isn’t even close.
Vacc is also banned in most 6v6 competitions
quick fix is super broken because of the super fast charging uber and also being able to rocket jump your medic out of danger. Kritzkrieg is pretty good but its something you have to use sparingly because its really easy to counter a kritz that doesnt catch you by surprise.
Unironically unlock side might even get to win with some skill issues disadvantage because they have some cracked unlocks that can carry like Vaccinator, Theory-Y made several videos and streams where he used it and it's insane how much you can get away with it. Scout has tons of op support unlocks, soldier has his own op unlocks like gunboats to focus stock medic, Pyro is almost always reliant on unlocks, Demo is the only one that struggles with using unlocks only but ig he can go hybrid knight with iron bomber and shield or try to snipe with quickiebomb, heavy is reliant on unlocks, engy extremely so and all support classes rely on unlocks heavily.
"as stock is always the best choice" ok so syringe gun is better than crossbow? bat is better than atomizer? revolver is better than diamond back? etc etc. bruh
Syringegun is a decent runaway weapon to use if you know what you're doing, revolver is doesn't have the damage penalty like the diamondback. When I think of stock being the better weapon I think of the scattergun, flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc. They are always the best choice because they are consistently reliable.
People underestimate the stock syringe gun. I've found good success with it, the Blut, an especially the Overdose. Plus, stock bonesaw is just...good. Doesn't give Medics that weird urge to chase enemies for 25% uber, so you tend to play safer without that urge to go...run at the enemy.
>They are always the best choice because they are consistently reliable. Those two statements aren't equivalent. In many situations, unlocks outperform stock. Who cares if the Amputator or Ubersaw have lower DPS than the stock variant? Or about the back-burner downside with infinite ammo (a dispenser)? And is the stock scattergun even better than the soda popper?
The damage penalty of the Diamondback literally does not matter, it's so minor imo
Fair enough, diamondback relies on having spy literally just do his job and basically gets free crits. But I was saying in a situation where somehow you weren't already having crits it's probably going to affect you that penalty.
It's still about as good as stock in that situation tbh, it's like Enforcer vs Stock in a 1v1, even if the Enforcer started disguised, where the only significant disadvantage the Enforcer has is the firing speed (though the firing speed could be a potential advantage in a weird way, as it makes timing your shots a bit easier)
I don’t know, the default weapons aren’t slouches in my experience. Unlock weapons tend to have these bizarre twists on the base gun that at least makes you consider your options.
Why did you list some of the best full stock characters as performing better without any stock
Usually a team's strength is down to its medic, and whilst stock Uber is great, unlock medic has Crossbow (excellent) and either a medigun that yeilds crits or heals way faster. So I'm leaning to unlocks. They wouldn't win 100% of the time though
Or it says fuck you
wut
The medigun. Either crits, extra healing, of fuck you. Y'know. Because of vaccinator.
They kinda would win all the time imo, because even though kritz is riskier and less reliable, having jarate, wrangler, mad milk, crit cola, banners, etc more than make up for no stock uber and weaker scout, demo and soldier primaries
vacci:
for meta? probably stock. For fun? unlocks 100%. Stock is fun, but unlocks can be so damn unique, and each of them can redefine your playstyle.
Most of those are the meta unlocks.
[удалено]
Print "hello world"
hello chatGPT
For meta? Almost all classes have unlocks replacing stock and if they don't, like Scout, it's because they banned most unlocks for being op. Exceptions being Demoman who's stock is mad good and I guess Soldier? Vaccinator alone can almost pull the entire unlock side to victory, check out Theory-Y videos on the vaccinator, it's THAT scarily good medi gun for medic
The vaccinator is not that op. It’s just annoying. Trust me, Theory would never use the vaccinator in competitive Highlander, or other large team formats.
He himself has said that stock is still better overall too, even though the vaccinator is crazy good. Those 8 seconds of invulnerability are just too good, it's why all the other mediguns have faster build rates. Vaccinator is also not the best medigun for every situation, but he has a lot of videos on this. Great channel, helped me immensely
TF2 Classic has almost only stock weapons and it's great
Unlocks. A lot of the good stock weapons have replacements that are close enough like the airstrike panic attack, degreeser, iron bomber and quickie bomb launcher. Also most stock melee are pretty useless while unlocks gets all the good utility melee. Also some unlocks are just insane game changers like the battalions or crossbow.
No way my man said airstrike over the original.
Didn't even think about that but since its basically a reskin i assume it would fall under stock
It isn't just a reskin. It fires rockets from the center rather than from an angle
"Half-A-Reskin" is the term to describe it.
But it's not a reskin
Blud was WILDIN', saying airstrike is good 💀 Also I myself forgoe Original existed, meaning that unlock side only truly has weak demo since their unlock soldier can just use original with gunboats xD
airstrike is good, just not as good as stock really fun tho
Remember if the youtubers didn’t say it’s good it’s not good
But recently one youtuber did say it's good, so now public opinion is changing lmao I've been an airstrike believer all along
Same lol, Glad people will actually care about it now that soundsmith said it’s good
i liked it before he said that, i was one of the guys scratching myself waiting to him talk about it
I never doubted you were, i’m just glad he finally did
Demo has Iron Bomber and quickie bomb so not so weak although probably worse than stock.
Demo can reach about the same as Stock Demo with some unlocks. Iron Bomber is basically the same thing and Pain Train and Skullcutter are usable on explosives Demo. Only real issue is that you pretty much lose a lot of versatility on your stickies, since you have to specialize into either trapping or spamming.
Unlock would win if it's a complete team because medic and engineer unlocks straight rip
Ehhh stock Uber is a huge advantage I think it would be close
Uber also charges the slowest.
Obviously unlocks? Stock may be better in most cases, but a team with unlocks is adaptive, they can pick out weapons to counter stock. Versatility is not to be underestimated
There's also the question of whether or not the team that has unlocked can change their equipment in the middle of a match or not. Like how Demoknight is better on Attack than Defense (depending on your sword at least).
Tf2 matches is very complicated just because you have some weapons doesn’t mean you have advantage. Like what gamemode, what map, how many player, 6v6 comp, highlander, skill equal, pros only, average player, mix etc. For instance, sniper bargain is definitely stronger than stock if play on 12v12 and above while struggle in 6v6 or pro highlander, Banner too.
I mean on paper it should be equally matched, right?
Nope and you should know it too since you're medic main and probably encountered enough op vaccinator users or you are one xD
More importantly, the Crusader's Crossbow lol
Vaccinator users are weak. One well timed demoknight destroys.
no demoknight in this scenario tho
Does "unlocks" imply every non-stock weapon? Then definitely that team. If it's specifically achievement unlocks, then the stock team definitely has some advantage.
Many of the weapons shown aren't from achievements.
One side has the Ubersaw, the other doesn't. You do the math.
That and the Crusaders Crossbow, which gives you a way to heal people at long ranges in a short amount of time. Also, the Quick Fix can be quite useful for keeping a whole team healed.
random crits are fair and balanced
Hello there, Opposite Uncle Dane.
ubersaw is good but its not THAT game defining as ur making it out to be
Ubersaw medic smells the +25%, goes beserk, dies
Engi loses a lot when you only have unlocks, he can't build because he has no construction pda
You technically dont need the pda. You only need the toolbox which is hidden stock weapon. If its not taken away you can build with console commands. [more info here ](https://youtu.be/d9nqtSLOtyU?si=cmXvCIH-ewafei1c)
Unlocks… really this question is “Does every slot have some sort of unlock envy?” And I’d say for the most part Scout: Soda popper/mad milk/wrap assassin Soldier: Direct hit/Battalion/Escape Plan Pyro: Degreaser/Flare/Powerjack Demo: Iron Bomber/Scottish Resistance/Eyelander Heavy: Tommislav/Sandvich/GRU Engineer: Rescue Ranger/Wrangler/Jag Medic: Vaccinator/Crossbow/Ubersaw Sniper: Bizarre Bargain/Jarate/Bushwaka Spy: DiamondBack/Deadringer/Kunai
Unlock items have too many advantages, is hard to elaborate
Unlocks win
Unlock side will win and it's not even close. Most classes have weapons that can make up for lack of Stock where providing extra utility or power (For example Scout has Soda Popper that is almost as good as Stock while also having Mad Milk or Pretty Boy's Pistol). Only classes hurt by needing to use unlocks only is Demoman and even then he is still really strong and Medic that still has Vaccinator and Crossbow so.
In general I think the unlock side would be better. I think Demo is the closest as it can play a standard role with just stock. Solider is similar but missing gunboats and banners is probably worse than having to use a non-stock rocket launcher.
This Medic loadout is literally my fav loadout, ofc only unlocks! At least for Medic (upd grammar)
assuming a 12v12 equal skill, stock team doesnt really have a shot, they have a handful of really strong weapons in their slots, like the sticky bomb launcher and stock medigun unlocks just has... like pretty much everything else equally viable or better, especially in melee weapons for most of the classes, medics loadout in general and soldier with a ton of versatility
Unlock squad wins
Y'all are weird for picking Unlock side. The only three classes that would be notably hindered by not having access to their unlocks would be Pyro, Heavy and Spy. Everyone else can manage and is really only missing out on one weapon change or something less meaningful. The classes that would be actively ***harmed*** by not having access to Stock are: -Scout -Demo -Engineer -Medic -Sniper See how the classes I just listed off are *meta* classes with huge control over the flow of the game...? Yeah, you do not want to be on team unlock when their Scouts, Demos, Medics and Snipers are all underperforming.
If we talk about the personal comfort, I would go stock 10 out of 10 times. If we talk in terms of winning at any cost, and there is no class limit, then the medic would be the final deciding factor, and in that case his unlocks provide an unfair amount of flexibility. Let’s pretend that we have a highlander match with a single player per class presented and they’re re all equally skilled and competent at their job (btw that sounds tempting to see actually happening). They have to play 1 payload map, one 5cp and one attack/defence map. Team stock: great damage output, they feel confident during the team fights, they have a level 3 sentry but it’s a little bit more challenging to keep it alive. The stock uber is an insanely strong tool that allows to achieve a lot if played wisely, can be used to counter everything else and nearly impossible to be countered itself. Without any surprises their main strategy would be based exclusively on building and exchanging the ubers. Which has always been a meta, and there are reasons behind it. Team unlocks: even if we completely exclude reskins, pretty much every single stock item still has it’s near equal alternate that’s gonna be either 10-15% less effective, or provide even higher DPS, either cheesy ways to fulfill the objective/cheesy flanks, such as: Soda popper, bonk, atomizer black box/beggars/DH, degreaser/phlog/scorch/thermal truster, LNL/Iron bomber/quickie launcher/Scottish resistance/sticky jumper, tomislav/brass beast jag/gunslinger/short circuit/wrangler, crossbow/kritz/vacc/quck-fi/ubersaw, machina/heatmaker/huntsman, big earner/kunai/DR They are basically allowed to do everything in the same way, with one single exception - they have to counter the stock uber. So their only focus is to keep the enemy medic down, which could only be achieved with quantity (surprise Kritz, quck-fix spam) and the Vacc is gonna be their only defensive option which is not much. The results are not surprising at all, since this strategy is basically a №2 most commonly applied meta used exclusively in attempt to counter the first one.
Unlocks. I'm sorry, but with the kunai (a weapon that is surprisingly good when properly used), Vaccinator (no need to explain it), Jarate+bushwacka (1 hit kill on 8 classes), the wrangler (being the wrangler), Phlog (**DO I NEED TO SAY WHY?**) and Soda popper just massacre the other team.
Probably unlocks. The only class that is strictly better with stock is demoman IMO.
the game was designed for stock weapons, so in my opinion, stock are the best weapons to only have.
I mean, do mvm weapons count as unlocks? (Like a flamethrower with a engie bot on it)
unlock
If I had to choose what to use, stock. If we're talking about the image and who's winning then it's unlocks for sure because crossbow, jarate, mad milk and wrangler are the best weapons in the game. But I cannot give up scattergun, sticky bomb launcher and default shotgun on engineer. Other than melees I basically only use gunboats and crossbow as unlocks anyway. And I guess sandvich and flare gun if I actually played pyro, heavy and spy
The fact that the unlock team has options would probably swing it in their favour alone, but on top of that there are many unlock weapons that are better than stock in most scenarios (Boston Basher, Original, Escape Plan, Degreaser, Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Third Degree, Iron Bomber, Tomislav, Sandvich, Second Banana, KGB, GRU, FoS, Wrangler, Crusader's Crossbow, Ubersaw, Solemn Vow, Bushwacka, Diamondback, L'Etranger) that they'd probably win anyway.
A lot of unlock weapons can only really be countered by other unlock weapons, there are a lot of decent stock weapons but sidegrades would work around them
i think stock
Unlock team would probably win, but at the same time stock Demo would be carrying the rest of the stock team. Really depends on how the more powerful-by-default classes play.
Stock Demo will have great time. I can assure that.
Unlocks for australiums unusuals reskins etc
Almost every class barring maybe spy and maybe Scout, does in some way benefit from using unlocks over stock. Engineer & Medic both have unlocks that are essentially busted. They lose nothing by going with unlocks over stock because of how ridiculous some of their unlocks are. Soldier has game-changing banners that provide infinitely more versatility than his shotgun and if you really miss the consistency of the stock rocket than you can just use The Original instead. Heavy's lunchbox unlocks are basically mandatory in most matches. The fists of steel are also pretty top tier and the tomislav is a perfect sidegrade to the stock minigun. Sniper in general is stupid OP in almost every regard unless you're just dicking around with The Classic. Demoman has this weird thing going on where you could swap out his stock weapons with certain unlocks and basically nothing would change because the stat changes are either negligible or non-existant. But to prefice, almost all of his melee's are better to use than stock, and if you really want to, the Scottish Handshake is there. (God I wish they made a strange version of it) Scout; while I believe none of sidegrades are better than stock shotgun, still has a lot of versatility with his secondaries and hell even his melee's. Spy honestly might be the only who "kind of" suffers from the lack of consistency that stock would normally provide. His sidegrades are overall pretty gimmicky like his watch sidegrades and a lot of his knife unlocks. You could argue the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle are both a good get-out-of-jail free card but than you've lost your main method of insta-killing so you're relegated to gunning from a distance and have no ability to go invis.
Crossbow’s an unlock right?
This depends ENTIRELY on what the unlocks are obviously, but I'm going to narrow it down and try to give my thoughts on each match-up for stock vs ACHIEVEMENT items. Scout: scout would lose his consistent damage output, as well as lose out on some health, but could use the bonk to get past the stock team and take focus away from the front. Soldier: The direct hit would remove much of the soldiers crowd control, but make him the bane of light classes. His melee is largely useless, but this is mirrored in stock. His banner, however, could turn the tide of the fight in an instant, provided he's good enough with the direct hit. Pyro: The back burner doesn't exactly change much, other than making the flaregun combo a bit more expensive to pull off. The axetinguisher would still work the same, and honestly nothing much would change from the stock pyro, other than not being able to effectively fight his counterpart. Demoman: For Demo, I think it would make sense to use 2/3 unlockables, instead of just the Scottish resistance. Classic hybrid knight gameplay here. Heavy: Could effectively hinder enemy scout, soldier, and demo, heal himself freeing up the medic, and in the event he can melee kill someone, crit himself. Thanks to soldier's banner, and the kritzkrieg (to be mentioned) the damage debuff on the natascha is largely made up for. Engineer: The wrangler and mini sentry can be used effectively together, but along with the frontier justice means that you will be torn between controlling your sentry directly, possibly keeping out of range and dealing damage that way, or being aggressive with your minis to get the frontier justice crits. The lack of a level 3 gun means defense is certainly harder than normal. Sniper: Huntsman. 'Nuff said. Medic: UBERSAW. The Kritzkrieg would actually hinder the team a bit, since most classes already have a way of gaining crits, or doing more damage outright, and even soldier can boost the team's damage output. The lack of invulnerability would not only make pushing into sentry nests hard, but repelling advances difficult as well. The blutsauger could mean a more aggressive medic, however, but of course medic is medic. He heals. Spy: I'll be honest, I forget if spy unlocks an achievement knife (pretty sure he doesn't) but the gameplay would change based on the watch. (I forget if you unlock the dead ringer, ik you unlock the C&D tho.) ambassador is solid if you hit your shots. Overall? I'd say that the achievement items compliment a more aggressive play style that would pair well with king of the hill or payload race, but struggle in game modes that allow for bases to be set up and defenses dug in.
scout would be forced into neiche playstyles, soldier would be satanic, pyro could be hell on wheels, demoknight would be situational depending on the map, heavy would be consistent, engi would become a wall, medic + soldier = massacre, sniper and spy dont really matter
Unlock engineer is restricted to two of the most busted secondaries in gaming history lmao
If the stock team will have an engineer and the unlock team won't because there is no unlock construction PDA
Professionals have standards!
Unlocks would make encounters with enemies much more unique
Ima demoknight so…
unlocks because piss sniper
If the unlocks team kniw how each weapon works unlocks win
Stock because pdas are stock so engie wouldnt do anything on unlock team, also disguise kit but thats less useful than pda
I thought sniper had a crossbow
Unlocks side ofc? There's a reason almost all slots for each class have banned unlock. Although I wish we had a gamemode where one team is forced to use stock like during item crash catastrophe of 2023 Vs team forced to use unlocks. I mean seriously, only Stock Rocket Launcher, Stock Stickies pose any big threat not replicable by unlocks, stock Uber is strong but charges too slow compared to kritz or vaccinator(also vaccinator is cracked) and stock side doesn't have ubersaw or crossbow, so really, stock side can only win if they're allowed to spam soldier and demo xD.
In my opinion, some classes perform either better, worse or even when using stock or unlocks, so these are what I think uses best Stock: Scout (Stock Scattergun has the highest DPS, the Pistol having good mid range combat, and the bat being the bat) Pyro (His flamethrower and shotguns are good at mid to close range, so a melee would rarely be used, but doesn’t have as much utility as say the Axtinguisher, Powerjack or Homewrecker) Sniper (Sure Jarate is better than the SMG, but it’s good for mid to close range where the Sniper Rifle (For a more casual player) doesn’t really help) Spy (Stock Revolver and Knife are the most consistent) Unlocks: Soldier (with his various types of weapons and banners, Soldier has the most benefit with unlocks) Demoman (Without the help of unlocks, Demo can still be powerful, but with some weapons such as Half Zatoichi and the Shields, even the Base Jumper to Loose Cannon, it would be even better) Heavy (Sandvich.) Engineer (You can either play as a more combat oriented with the Gunslinger and Widowmaker or a more defensive with Short Circuit and Rescue Ranger) Medic (Crossbow and Ubersaw)
Scout unlockw. Soldier unlocks. Pyro stock. Demo stock. Heavy stock. Engi stock. Medic unlocks. Sniper stock. Spy stock.
Unlocks. There is always an unlock acting pretty similiar to stock and there are some that are straight upgrades to stocks
Unlocks. There is always an unlock acting pretty similiar to stock and there are some that are straight upgrades to stocks
Let's evaluate class by class: Scout: Soda popper is arguably better than stock and every other slot 100% goes in unlock's favor. Like most classes, Scout's stock melee is useless and so getting utility is basically a straight upgrade, and while the pistol isn't useless, the winger is just as good in situations you need it and Scout has really strong utility in that slot. Soldier: Probably breaks even. Stock rocket launcher is really strong and none of the alternatives really compare but the banners are crazy, and the escape plan is easily best in slot. Overall performance probably comes down to how well unlock Soldier plays around whatever's wrong with the launcher they pick. Pyro: No contest, degreaser and backburner cover Pyro's two main use cases, and unlike a lot of classes those use cases are different enough that you generally know which one you'll need in any situation. Flare guns are a game changer and the hammers are the thing that makes Pyro's melee slot useful. Demoman: Stock is stronger. Quickiebomb launcher and iron bomber are unlock's strongest picks and it's basically discount stock. Melee is more or less inconsequential, pick the katana I guess for occasional miracle saves. Heavy: Unlock is better. Lunchboxes are a staple for a reason, the tomislav is meta, and utility melees are useful as always. Engineer: This can go one of two ways but overall unlock is probably stronger. Engineer can go with discount stock and go panic attack/southern hospitality or flex off into something more specialized. Discount stock probably performs slightly worse than real stock but unlock Engineer makes up for it with utility. Medic: Stock uber is really strong but vaccinator is also very strong and having access to crits or better overall healing when needed is enough to probably at least break even. Crossbow is arguably the single most game-changing unlock in the game and the ubersaw is the ubersaw. Unlock Medic wins. Sniper: Secondary and melee obviously goes to unlock but it's not that big a difference maker all things considered. Stock rifle is very good, but machina is discount stock and works more or less fine for that, with the option to go bazaar bargain (if the sniper is good), sydney sleeper (if they really aren't) or huntsman if there aren't good sightlines taking it for unlock. Spy: Having to use either dead ringer or cloak and dagger isn't great but the diamondback is very strong and the kunai or big earner are good depending on how competent the enemy team is. Stock is be better if the enemy team is smart enough to not get caught by the silly gimmicks Spy's unlock watches force him into but unlock Spy has popoff potential. Also the red-tape recorder is a joke but fits unlock Spy's optimal playstyle of being really annoying. Overall I think unlock takes it but stock definitely has some advantages, like stock uber, stronger demo, better rockets, and a spy that isn't forced into gimmick playstyles. In a 6s style competitive environment that might actually push it into stock winning too, but in a casual or highlander style format unlock is definitely stronger.
Stock weapons > unlock weapons
idk, it would probably be pretty close. unlocks would have some good pushes, but stock would also have some good wins. depends how well they play.
Only engi and heavy really suffer with their stock-only loadouts. And heavy is still pretty viable with stock.
Unlocks team would be better in some situations and worse in others usually, as that's the point of unlocks, while stock are consistent
Unlick, not because the stocks suck, in fact they are better in most cases, but because of the team variety in actually having different loadout options.
i main engineer so unlocks only for me
Unlock, because of power creep.
i just made an entire video script in answer to this but in short, unlocks would win in almost every case
no crossbow or bonesaw unlocks is the game changer for me
Losing stock uber is an enormous penalty. Leaning toward stock winning
Neither, they would be too busy doing a conga line.
The other team's Engie can't use the PDAs, and the Spy can't use his disguise kit. This is an easy win for Stock.
I would prefer unlocks, although they have disadvantages, unlocks can do all the stuff that stock weapons do, but with advantage or disadvantage in some more or less rare cases.
Unlocks, the frontier justice and the shortstop are my top 2 favourite guns in the entire game
I team with only stock would win cuz most of the unlocks are just re-skins or nerfed to the ground
MEDIC way better with unlockable weapons (vaccine)
Engineer PDA: 💀💀💀💀
I would gave stocks with fitting FUNctions and then answer this.
stonck
It'd be a pretty even fight, but the unlock team's Spy would probably be the biggest pain in the ass since he'd be running Dead Ringer.
Classes in order and which version is stronger: Scout: unlocks, scattergun is the strongest but soda popper isn't far behind and mad milk is ridiculously good Soldier: unlocks, original is technically an unlock and they would also have a whip or escape plan and gunboats Pyro: unlocks, stock flamethrower is great, but degreaser is also really good and the nostromo napalmer is also technically an unlock. If unlocks needs a shotgun then the reserve shooter and panic attack both are viable alternatives while they also have access to spam with detonator and scorch shot Demo: stock, but not by too much, the grenade launcher and the iron bomber are very similar weapons, stock stickies are one of the strongest weapons in the game but quickies are also very strong. Melee would have both using a bottle as the unlocks still has the Scottish handshake Heavy: unlocks, sandvich. Engineer: unlocks, wrangler. Medic: unlocks, stock medigun is fantastic, but unlocks have extremely good stalling power with kritz, quick fix, and vaccinator, they may struggle on attack but stock medigun's defence is also weaker than its attack Sniper: unlocks, bazaar bargain is an amazing weapon in general, but also the awper hand is technically an unlock. Jarate is far better than the smg, and the kukri can be replaced with the bushwhacka Spy: unlocks, if the spy can manage to get backstabs then the kunai keeps them alive for chain stabs while the dead ringer gives them a way out, the diamondback provides a safety net by making the spy do meatshot damage out of a revolver. If the spy can't get backstabs then the cloak and dagger outclasses the invis-watch for info gathering and the ambassador in the hands of someone with good aim is much better at picking off weakened targets at range
I’m still fairly new at this game (by TF2 standards) so stock for me.
Both technically because it depends on the skill of the players like if they’re both newbies then it’ll be a tie if they’re both skilled it’ll probably be a tie
Scout: -Stock Scattergun and Soda Popper are fairly even. All others are generally downgrades. -Pistol is a solid weapon to be sure but there's like four worthwhile alternatives so unlocks are overall better. -Melee slot favors unlocks, easily. Soldier: -Stock Rocket Launcher is generally the best but unlock Soldier can just use the Original instead. Factor in the Direct Hit and I'd say this slot favors unlocks. -Likewise the shotgun is really good but for unlocks the Panic Attack is an excellent alternative on top of tons of other options so stock loses put here too. -Give me one good reason to use soldier's stock melee. Pyro: I'm not even gonna break this down by slot Pyro's whole deal is that he's not particularly good at any one thing with his stock loadout and specializes into various niches using unlocks so just give this to the unlocks across the board. Demoman: -Grenade launcher and Iron Bomber are about even. The rest are downgrades. Tie. -Stock Stickybomb Launcher handily beats out all alternatives. -The bottle is often considered best simply for consistency but that's really only on regular Demoman and with unlocks one can go Demoknight sooooo tie I guess? Heavy: -Same deal as Scout and Demo, stock and Tomislav are about even while the rest don't really factor in. -Sandvich and Banana put any shotgun on Heavy to shame. -No reason to use stock melee with so many good unlocks. Engineer: -For as boring as it is the stock shotgun might just win here. The Panic Attack doesn't work well as a primary and everything else has downsides that make them a little too situational to compete. -Wrangler exists. -Jag's swing speed bonus practically negayes its downsides. Medic: -Crusader's crossbow is easily his best so-called primary. -Unlocks can't quite measure up to the stock Medigun. -Ubersaw, Amputator, or even the Solemn Vow are better than Stock. Sniper: -Bazaar Bargain or Hitman's Heatmaker work just as well as if not better than stock. -Secondary and Melee slots are a package deal; individually the SMG and Kukri could measure up to the Jarate and Bushwacka but put the latter two together and unlocks win hands down. Spy: -I'd like to say the stock measures up to the L'etranger and Ambassador but unfortunately the Diamondback exists and largely obsoletes stock. -Stock sapper clearly wins. -Stock knife is in the same position as the revolver. Fair trade for most other knives but then the Spy-cicle exists and generally does its job better. -Although the Dead Ringer is a good alternative nothing beats the stock watch. So if I'm counting correctly that's 19 slots that favor unlocks, 5 that favor stock, and 4 ties. By class, most are better with only unlocks, but stock Demoman is all around better and Spy is about 50/50 in either direction.
Only unlocks
Unlockables have most of the meta weapons, and most stock melees suck compared to unlocks for all classes except Medic, Demoman, and Sniper (Medic, Demoman, and Sniper actually make use out of their melee weapons as a melee weapon). Atomizer and Mad Milk for Scout. Banners, Escape Plan, and Disciplinary Action for Soldier. Phlog, Scorch Shot, Powerjack, and Back Scratcher for Pyro. Iron Bomber for Demoman. Tomislav (but it's not that much of an advantage anyway), Sandvich, and GRU for Heavy. The big advantage is Heavy getting lunchboxes. Wrangler and Southern Hospitality for Engineer (SH is a direct upgrade if random crits are not enabled since Pyros rarely go near a leveled sentry). Crossbow, Vaccinator, and Ubersaw for Medic. Jarate and Bushwacka for Sniper. Stock Sniper Rifle is arguably the best rifle anyway (most versatile), but the Machina exists (stock with more damage on a fully-charged shot and less subtlety). Still, all Sniper rifles do the same thing (they can one-shot certain classes and make players think twice about entering a sightline). Ambassador, Le Entranger, Cloak & Dagger, and Kunai for Spy
Unlocks, and it's not even a contest. The Vaccinator and Wrangler alone could probably hard carry
If the Spy on the unlock team had Dead Ringer, Big Earner and Diamondback then maybe.
Unlock pyro wins with the dragons breath or what ever it’s called
Problem with this image here is that some of these weapons arent **unlock** weapons (actually, all of them except Engineer, some include weapons that are not achievement unlocks), they are random items, unlock items would be: Scout: Force-Of-Nature, BONK! Atomic Punch, & Sandman Soldier: Direct Hit, Buff Banner, & Equalizer Pyro: Backburner, Flare Gun, & Axtinguisher Demoman (who gets two secondary options and doesnt have a primary unlock): Scottish Resistance OR Chargin' Targe, & Eyelander Heavy: Natascha, Sandvich, & Killing Gloves of Boxing Engineer: Frontier Justice, Wrangler, & Gunslinger Medic: Blutsauger, Kritzkrieg, & Ubersaw Sniper (who is also in the same department as Demoman, except in Sniper's Case, he doesnt have a Melee Unlock): Huntsman, & Razorback OR Jarate. Spy (same department as Sniper & Demo, except he only has a primary & watch unlock, no unique sappers or knives for him): Ambassador, & Cloak and Dagger OR Dead Ringer. There are other unlocks that exist, mostly related to achievements from other games and the sort, but most of them are either functionally the same as Stock or are just Cosmetic. Anyways, as to which team wins? Well, it really depends upon skill, as most people have already stated. Although as for the team with the highest advantage? Most likely Unlocks, but if Team Unlock doesn't know how to utilize said weapons properly or in a manner that highly benefits them, then Team Stock may come out on top.
Probably the unlock, some unlocks are insane, like the wrangler, jetpack, sandvich, the shields, etc.
Honestly depends on skill, if you were to get the top player per class, make an exact clone of them, then put them into a 9v9 Highlander, that point it would be fair. There are plenty of cases for and against stock only / unlock only
Depends fully on skill of the teams, but assuming they’re both the same skill level, i believe it would still go to the unlock team as although the stock weapons (except the syringe gun) are good, even great in some cases like the scattergun and stock minigun but the unlocks have more variety of items, including multiple counters for some of the stock weapons in the same way some stock weapons counter unlocks. But I still believe the unlockable weapon team would win
It depends. In comp the meta is almost entirely stock weapons except for scout melee being the Boston Basher, soldier melee being the Escape Plan, and medic using the crossbow and Ubersaw. In casual there’s a lot more room for variety with weapons that aren’t viable in comp but very good in 12 v 12 like the wrangler and short circuit, vaccinator etc.
Unlock side is on-par or better in almost all scenarios. The only class I could make an argument against is Demoman as the stock stickybomb launcher is kinda his best secondary option, but both the Quicky and the Scottish Resistance are good if you can play around it. Medic does get a slight honorable mention but unless teams can really coordinate focus fire (or have a good sniper / spy) the Quick Fix and Vaccinator ubers often operate on-par with stock Uber against anything that isn't a sentry, and you don't *need* Uber for sentries especially when you have the option of a Scout with Bonk. Basically every class other than Demoman, Medic, and *maybe* Pyro (all flamers other than stock are worse at airblasting) have an option that's almost completely on-par with stock. Scout would have to get used to the Soda Popper but they could use the Pretty Boy's and any of the weapons that are better than the stock bat. Soldier could use Black Box, Reserve Shooter, and any weapon better than stock melee. Heavy has Natasha, Family Business (not that you aren't equipping a lunchbox), and anything better than stock melee. Engineer won't have a pistol but it's not like the Wrangler and Short Circuit are bad weapons. Sniper has Bazaar Bargain, Cleaner's Carabine (but let's be real you're going to bring Jarate or a backpack), and any melee that's better than stock. And Spy has the L'Etranger or Diamondback, Spycicle, Cloak-and-Dagger (worse stock watch with "infinite" cloak), and while the Red Tape sucks ass Spy doesn't need to be the main anti-building class.
Does reskins count as unlocks tho I mean, you can get something like the Conscientious Objector from item drops so Demoman won't be stuck with subpar melees that either deploys too slow, inconsistent, or makes him more vulnerable to bullets.
Probably unlock, im a sniper main
Scout vs scout is entirely based on skill. A good scout with stock scatter and pistol is going to mess up unlock because of sustain and positioning. Only difference is melee. Don't think I've used the stock bat in my life because everything else is so much better (I miss the old sandman) Scout vs everyone though? It doesn't really matter what set-up you play, that minisentry is going to ruin your day
I think the unlocks would win, the only real disadvantage would be scout not having stock and medic not having stock. But scout would probably use soda popper and medic could run Kritz or Quickfix, which would be a slight disadvantage but they could just play more aggressively
Fairly balanced overall. Scout: Stock Soldier: Unlock Pyro: Unlock Demo: Stock Heavy: Unlock Engineer: Unlock Medic: Stock* Sniper: Stock Spy: Unlock *Unlock can be equally balanced too on some maps.
Unlocks can't have engi or spy, so heavenly dependant on gamemode
As a spy main, only unlocks. The YER is just too useful, and I can even become a god forsaken Kunai spy if needed. The diamondback is basically a straight upgrade, and the only downside would be the red tape recorder (unless you count reskins).
depends, does stock include reskins?
engineer with wrangler carries
Stock weapons Cus you hav to use the stock weapons to get the unlock weapons :]
unlock weapons because they got the piss and the banners and the good medic weapons while stock has some shitty items
one one hand unlocks gets sandvich, on the other they have to use red tape
Stock for me is better than unlock in almost all cases, but the heavy, pyro andNG have better loadouts than the stock
Unlock side POV: 1. Scout has a minor disadvantage, Soda Popper is still viable. It doesn't affect the match. 1. Soldier has a good advantage, the power of Gunboats or Banners give unlock side a higher chance of winning. 1. Pyro can spam Scorch Shot, also better flanks. Increased chance of winning for unlock side. 1. Demoman stays the same. 1. Heavy has a significant advantage. 1. Engineer has a significant advantage. 1. Medic has a significant advantage on RED. BLU medic is actually weaker without stock uber. 1. Sniper has JARATE. 1. Spy significant advantage as well. Unlock side is very likely to win as RED and still has the upper hand as BLU.
Idk who would win, but I would have more fun with unlocks.
I’m still fairly new at this game (by TF2 standards) so I would say stock.
Even though some stock weapons are better than unlocks, there is far more variety in unlocks than having to use the single stock weapon. Ultimately, they have the advantage over stock weapons because they have a lot more to work with
Are reskins of stock weapons being counted as unlocks? If so than unlocks all the way, between the stock reskins and actual unlockable weapons you're pretty much set on any loadout you could need to use. If reskins of stock are still considered stock, then I'd have to go with stock weapons, unlocks are almost always unless its like the Ubersaw or Sandvich, going to be situational whereas the stock weapons are the most consistent in any situation.
Demo and sniper are the only two classes where people regularly use all stock, every other class gains a lot of utility for melee, and barely loses anything for using sidegrades for primaries and secondaries. Unlocks win
Probably unlocks, because there are a couple unlocks which give massive advantages for certain playstyles or just generally "THE playstyle", and a lot of unlocks which are very much still within "stock but like -15% here and +15% there" range, meaning that the versitility of stock weapons is not fully lost to team unlocks. An example would be soldier. I feel like most "normal" soldiers on the majority of popular maps are debilitated without the gunboats, so team stock is at a disadvantage with secondaries, but they don't lose out per se on primaries thanks to something like the direct hit or air strike not being much less versatile than stock. Another example, medic. Obviously the syringe gun is outdone in every way by the Blutsauger, and the crossbow is a great boon when you have reliable teammates, and while the stock is the best medigun, using the others isn't any real loss, especially when you consider the fact that you charge earlier, which in the case of the kritzkrieg can lead to resetting the enemy medic down to 0%. Also the bonesaw just kinda exists when the ubersaw or the vitasaw actually provide an advantage in situations common for a medic (ie. Free Uber or respawn Uber for that spy who thought he was slick, but really actually just underestimated how you have everyone's back). Simply, a few unlocks are better than stock, and virtually 0 stock weapons don't have a "close enough" unlock that doesn't make them about on par with stock 90% of the time. The one exception is probably the invis watch, assuming reskins count as stock, but really a spy is either irrelevant to the team effort, or not debilitated by using a different watch. Oh also the red tape recorder, but again, minor annoyance, it's not going to counter the advantages of team unlock.
idk tbh. it could be either or.
Heavy Loses Sandvich. That is literally all I need to know. I understand the shotgun, but lets face it. Sandvich is game changing providing mobile rechargeable med packs. AFAIK it's the largest shared source of shared **burst** healing in the game especially on a class that doesn't normally get access to group support outside of just being "The guy everyone shoots first."
Unlocks. Most of the meta stock options have unlockable alternatives that are only slightly worse. Unlockable team has access to items that are straight up busted.
kunai army
We need a YouTuber or community leader to actually stage this fight, a redditor had a good idea!!!
Depends what classes. But since I main medic, I'll ditch base Medigun if it means I keep Crossbow.
Probably the unlocks. A lot of unlock weapons are close enough to stock, i.e. the cow mangler, iron bomber, pretty boys pocket pistol, that the losses wouldn't be that major. The only weapons that would really be sorely missed would be the scattergun, the medigun, and especially the sticky launcher. Getting to use things like the bonk, vaccinator, crossbow, gunboats, etc. would more than even this out.
My yapping is professional and my reply is so large it wont upload. here's a post i did somewhere else instead. Fair warning it's longer than it has any right to be and most of it you already had in mind. You have been warned. [https://www.reddit.com/user/Generic\_mexican\_user/comments/1cqexko/reply\_to\_would\_you\_rather\_only\_have\_stock\_weapons/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/user/Generic_mexican_user/comments/1cqexko/reply_to_would_you_rather_only_have_stock_weapons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Unlock would favor some more than others, but the first thing that comes to mind is Trolldier. No one is safe from a pro Rocket Jumper with a shovel
I mean demo scout, and sniper are unchanged med has stock Uber soldier has his best primary spy has his meta knife, engi has a decent load out I don't see a reason why stock would lose. Maybe because unlock soldier has gunboats but like that's it
Depends on skill level
Unlock and it's not even a question. Scout's pistol and bat both have reskins and straight up better options. Only the scattergun represents an issue but the soda popper has little difference if the player's skill is the same. Soldier never uses the stock shovel, the panic attack is the shotgun but better, and the original is just the rocket launcher (and even if reskins aren't allowed, the original still is because the rockets get launched differently). I don't need to explain why stock pyro loses. Stock demoman is the first actual challenge. Though the iron bomber and stock are pretty similar, stock still tends to be better in most situations. Still though, the sticky launcher is the real problem. You can come pretty close to the grenade launcher, but there is no replacement to the sticky launcher. It gives the stock team a fighting chance. The stock minigun doesn't have any direct upgrades, but the tomislav comes very close. Plus iron curtain if you really wanna use the minigun. The shotgun and fists, again, need no explanation. Engineer has the panic attack and the stock wrench barely ever gets used. Though I love the stock pistol, I'm also not gonna pretend that a wrangler or short circuit engie is gonna miss it too much. Medic is another hard one, but weirdly enough I'd say he's easier to replace than demoman. The syringe gun and bonesaw are just bad, and though none of the mediguns are as powerful as stock, they have other advantages. The vaccinator allows for consistent smaller buffs all game long while the quick fix heightens the team's survival rate far beyond the normal medigun. Plus the unlock medics can defend themselves far better than the stock one, who needs to rely on his team to save him from far more mobile and unpredictable enemies. Though I expected him to be a hard choice, he really isn't. Sniper on stock isn't too bad. The rifle and kukri are often the best, but the rifle falls into the minigun category, where it can be better but also the bazaar bargain would not make much difference. With the smg being useless, the reliance of bodyshots and melee damage are the things which make sniper's odds in this matchup really hard to predict. Even more so than medic I'd say. Stock spy is incredible... but so is unlock spy. This is the class which relies almost entirely on skill, so weapon stats mean very little. It's very hard to say who'd be more effective, basically every weapon has it's own little playstyle and tiny set of tricks that come along with it. I'd say stock and unlock are pretty evenly matched here, with the odds even possibly tipping to stock's side. However, add reskins and stock spy is fucked, every single one of his weapons has a reskin except for the disguise kit. In conclusion unlocks win through sheer numbers. Only 3/9 stock classes really give their counterparts a run for their money (demo, medic, spy). HOWEVER, there are some details OP did not mention. If you give the unlockable side reskins, they win no questions asked and no effort required. The unlock side being unable to use weapons without variants is also a possibility that, if reskins are allowed, can be ignored since it really only affects spy, but if there's no reskins, it cripples variant engineer and gives stock team a crazy advantage. Regardless, I'd say unlockable team always wins. But these rules the post does not mention definitely makes it a more unpredictable fight.
Way I would go about it is go over each class and see which ones are stronger for what. Scout - Stock because there's no good replacement for the scattergun, second and melee weapons aren't anything great Soldier - Unlocks because you can replace stock rocket launcher with the original, Shotgun and shovel are what's left, shotgun is ok but limiting, shovel is ass. Pyro - Unlocks, both are good but stock flame thrower and degreaser are more or less interchangable, option of powerjack wins this for unlocks. Demo - Stock because stock stickies are just that good. Heavy - Unlocks because of sandvich and fists, arguably tomislav too Engie - Unlocks; Wrangler. Medic - Unlocks, crits counter uber+you get the crossbow Sniper - Unlocks, there are viable replacements for stock sniper rifle, unlocking options like razorback, darwin's, jarate, shahanishanashaashaakamehameha is worth it. Spy - Stock, stock spy is solid and missing out on sapper is what decides it's probably better. So it's 3 to 6, some could argue 2 to 7, unlocks win by just having better options, good question, next please.
Stock players RELIE on other classes. I realized this when the stock fortress bug happened