You’ve basically explained all my criticisms with the cougar. I would also say that cougar offers no expression of individual player skill as well. Every single player has to get TP mauled to get the reward, the only difference being if they managed to hit the cougar and what weapon they use, if it even appears at all and doesn’t spawn behind a wall or hidden behind a rock. If they wanted it to be game-y they could have it spawn close to you somewhere blocked by LOS so you could just have a chance of killing it before it mauls you. The current risk vs reward for the new items isn’t worth it imho except maybe for the new feat. A cougar mauling should be a punishment for failing to react in time, not a 100% guarantee.
As implemented there's no intrigue, no suspense, no counterplay, it's just a glorified affliction with a cutscene.
Stock up food, water, meds, and new clothing for the recovery; wait for the timer to run down; trigger your mauling and affliction; hope you hit your quicktime event; then wait to recover
I agree. And in the Hunted challenge, the Old Bear also spawns somewhere nearby and starts to run to you.
That should have been the minimum for the cougar in my opinion. Let it spawn in behind the player or out of sight and attack very fast and very quietly.
Or pounce on you from above, from a boulder/tree/roof. Crouching out of sight, waiting. If you see it, it buggers off. Gotta keep super vigilant. As time goes on, it happens more often, but you can never get a kill shot off before it takes off upon sighting. More time passes, it gets smarter at hiding, eventually & inevitably it gets you.
IDK, just spitballing.
That would be so paranoia-inducing, oh my god. Imagine walking somewhere and frantically looking at roofs, boulders, other obstacles, not knowing from where cougar would attack.
So much wasted potential, HL really screwed up.
This one guy on a video I saw had the idea that if you were vigilant enough and saw the cougar while it was stalking you, you would have a few second window to shoot it. The cougar would be invincible in this state so you can’t kill it, but hitting it with a bullet or arrow would injure it and make the struggle much easier.
If it works like every other animal hide clothing that’s in the game then yeah it’s 100% going to require another pelt. The moosehide satchel is the only animal craft that just takes leather and not its respective drop.
> I would also say that cougar offers no expression of individual player skill as well.
How you prepare for the attack is a skill. You can choose the area for the showdown by going there fully stocked and ready to go. Also, being able to kill the cougar at all is absolutely a skill. You can prepare your rifle/archery/revolver skill before the encounter, you can physically get good enough at shooting to have a better shot at killing it.
I don't disagree with the rest of your post though.
Your rifle/revolver/archery skill makes no difference in being able to kill a cougar apart from maybe the weapon sway potentially screwing you over, its a one hit kill regardless. Protection also seems to work a bit weird with the cougar, I've been mauled with over 80% protection and still had around 60-65% of my health gone in a single attack, the randomness of the attacks also means that the cougar can potentially never spawn in while your out in the open, I've experienced both waiting a full in game day for a cougar to spawn out in the open and it never appearing, to being attacked twice in 1 hour which killed one of my throwaway runs when I was testing out the bow vs the cougar. Whilst my second example is almost certainly extremely rare, there isn't much player skill in "avoiding" two entirely unavoidable attacks before I can get to any indoor shelter.
Preparing for an attack however is something that should be done, but that mostly involves getting lots of bandages and old mans beard to treat the severe lacerations affliction and not the actual creature itself.
Just my opinion though, I absolutely wouldn't have died in that throwaway run if I had better aim with the bow at the time and actually hit the cougar.
Honestly, I thought there would be some kind of territorial markings of the cougars encroaching presence. Like it stalking, or leaving dead animals in a position or mangled state that makes it clear that it's a cougar. Being able to find a nest in the region., see it stalking from inaccessible terrain.
Im not super against it spawning directly on you, but I would like it better if it spawned right behind me, announce it's presence allowing about 3 seconds of reaction time as it zig zags to be in a jagged rushed state. And of course leaving tracks in the process and will not attack you while you are within reach of a house.
It should be a do or die stand off as is, but feel less out of your control, but be extremely difficult.
It would be nice to find it in place where it can be caught off guard. Maybe while taking a dump or eating or something. And those droppings could be left permanently to alert you to it's presence. And poop could be used... Somehow. Put still usable.
From the video, it does seem to leave random dead wildlife once it enters the area. Of course, you would already know that it is there because you would have the cougar head notification on you screen.
I really feel like they should have made the cougar spawn once you pass the amount of time for it to spawn. Then have it be a physical but very elusive presence in the region. Make it a predator that is very hard to win against, once attacked. Build off of the wolf AI and have it stalk you but let the player also be able to stumble upon it and kill it.
I agree with you on every point here.
The cougar in its current state, is half-baked and should not have been implemented. Having the cougar basically be a QTE that spawns on top of you is beyond lazy. I have to wonder why more time wasn't given to the development of the cougar?
The way the cougar was implemented also gives me cause for concern as to how base customization will be implemented in part 6. The cougar was announced 8 years ago, along with other features and Hinterland managed to allow such a poor implementation to become a part of the game, when they have clearly shown that they are able to do competent work.
They feel very much like a placeholder mechanic, the kind you'd duct tape together if you were given far too short a deadline. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's how they feel. Janky.
You pretty much nailed what my expectations and disappointments are. I really hope that Hinterland changes how the cougar works, or at least let me see it before I get jumped.
I haven't encountered the cougar myself yet, but yeah what's being described feels a little disappointing and almost lazy. I was expecting a stealth predator that you'd rarely catch a glimpse of. A tail disappearing behind a rock. A rustle in the trees. A few footprints. Remains of an animal carcass. But I would expect to be able to hunt it, follow the signs to the den it has in the region it's active in (not 1 in the whole world), while actively running the risk of hearing a growl behind you a second before you're mauled. I also wasn't expecting a bunch of HUD warnings, that does sound very immersion breaking.
Now we just have to hope that Raph doesn't go straight to playing the victim and actually takes these posts (or the ones on the forum) as \*constructive\* critisism rather than an attack. I love the studio and the game, but the way they (and especially Raph) handle critisism sometimes...
> Now we just have to hope that Raph doesn't go straight to playing the victim and actually takes these posts (or the ones on the forum) as *constructive* critisism rather than an attack. I love the studio and the game, but the way they (and especially Raph) handle critisism sometimes...
Their replies on the update video say they're basically not willing to take criticism on the cougar until people have played with it for at least a week to see that it's actually great. Which, fair enough I guess, but I don't have high hopes that they mean it and aren't just saying that to deflect criticism like they always do.
On one hand I can understand why they would chose to just spawn it on you: its supposed to be a super stealthy ambush predator you wont see coming.
On the other hand: this isn't d&d, rolling a 45 on a stealth check doesn't make you invisible, so if you park your ass in a cave and face the only way in theres realistically no way you wouldn't see it unless it mastered the art of quantum tunnelling.
>I expected a cue system a lot akin to Moose with little HUD utilization
As somebody who's bad at recognizing cues I personally appreciate this, and sometimes my audio device bugs out so I appreciate the popup.
It seems really wrong that there is going to be an attack that you absolutely cannot avoid no matter how you behave. It seems like if you made it appear in your region then immediately left the region you could not be attacked once it has appeared? Idk...the unavoidable struggle seems messed up.
So once it appears in your region, you must leave for 10 days. If you leave, spend a day somewhere else and then come back, it sounds like that resets the timer for the cougar to leave. So you would have to actually stay out of that region for 10 whole days before you could come back and have the cougar disappear.
i think youre giving the cougar head wrap and the new knife a bit less credit than you should, but i do overall agree with your point.
i honestly just feel if they spawned behind you then ran for 2 seconds making loud scary noises they would feel 10x better. i really dislike the random jumpscare, especially as you can be got in certain outdoor buildings like fishing huts.
What are your expectations for the future of the cougar?
Personally, my impression is that Hinterland doesn't currently have a lot of resources for TLD development and I don't expect any further improvements of the cougar, at least nothing that changes the current system of a completely scripted struggle.
Yeah, the cougar should be just visible on the distant horizon stalking you ominously (but always staying outside of your firing range), and when it decides to go for the kill it should be able to reach you within like 3 seconds. This would make it a terrifying enemy while not making it another un-fun punishment mechanic.
You get an enable/disable toggle when you load up a pre update save or when you start a new game.
I.e. you last played your run last Thursday. You boot it up today, you are presented with the option to enable or disable the cougar.
I'm on console (Xbox) and did not get this prompt when loading a current run post update. Not sure what to think of this, ie. is the cougar enabled or not. Is it a console thing?
To add a little overall criticism of the mechanic; the cougar is honestly something most players will never even encounter.
The timer on Interloper is 20 days. Outside of stopping to craft clothes and forge tools, the global item decay alone is more than enough incentive for the player to always be on the move. Unless you get an affliction like Intestinal Parasites/Broken Ribs its only really late game in the +80~100 day range where you would want to linger in a region for any length. For example, to start seriously fishing to handle Scurvy... which is now a problem with all the packaged food gone.
Even so, its still very easy to avoid. Bounce between Coastal Highway and Desolation Point every ten or so days and you'll never encounter it. That means the only way you'll meet the Cougar is if you intentionally try to fight it. And, considering the damage you take, its just not worth it imo. A hat clothing item that is just *slightly* better than the several other good options and a knife (which you still have to forge) that excels in struggles... which you really shouldn't be getting into in the first place.
I was really hoping that the Cougar would be a threatening mechanic with a high risk/reward factor at play but honestly its scarier seeing the Cabin Fever warning. At least then I have to change up *how* play rather than just go elsewhere for a while.
I don’t dislike the cougar but the major issues for me is you have to be mauled before being able to take it down. There’s no chance at defense when it decides to strike. Deep lacerations is pretty intense and you can bleed out in your sleep while trying to recover. Which leads me to my second critique.
When you have deep lacerations and say you fail to kill the cougar, you’re going to have a terrible time. Even worse time if you’re in a huge map like FA. You’ll need to recover but the cougar is still out there ready to re-attack.
Ultimately I love the cougar. Implementation needs work to give us a fighting chance. It’s also pretty easily avoidable. I was certain it’d be waiting for me in my current save but I guess move around too much 😅
I haven't played in a while and am more just a fan of the game reading these posts.
It seems like an insanely poor choice to teleport it to you. They could have given it the same ai as the wolf except make the radius it roams on the map get smaller and smaller and closer to you over time, so that it's not a guaranteed 'ok timer up here comes cougar' thing, and instead feels like it's actually stalking you but if you keep moving it will take longer for it to reach you, with the timer resetting if you spend time away from the area it's in.
I agree with all your criticisms and I'll add a separate one.
I don't like that the cougar only punishes excessively camping in one region, when being constantly on the move is how I always play anyway (and I know many other people). This means for many the cougar is literally a threat you have to choose to bring on yourself rather than the inherent danger it should be.
I think cougars should be found in 3-4 random regions that rotate at 10-20 day intervals (maybe with an early game grace period). This means it will still eventually find you if you don't move, but also adds new danger to wandering the map that you always run the risk of stumbling into cougar territory. Plus feels less immersion breaking than a single, omniscient cougar that knows your every move.
Obviously the cougar mechanics would need an overhaul for this to be a fun addition and that should be the main focus for now.
I agree, it punishes the wrong thing. I would add it does so poorly. You can just make camp at the edge of a region and deal with the chore, or conversely people will most likely just try to make it come to kill it(thus camping in one region anyway).
I agree completely. I just want to comment on commenters saying that the struggle happens no matter how you behave, and the struggle should be a punishment for bad play. It kind of *is* tied to behavior, just in a different way than everything else. It is a punishment for gettin. Too comfortable, rather than for getting too close, missing a shot, etc. How long you stay in a region is also an aspect of play, just a different one than other wildlife respond to.
But still, I agree that it should at least exist for a few seconds before jumping you. Existing only in the cutscene is too harsh and also immersion breaking. You can be in a completely open field with 360° of vision, and still get jumped. That’s silly.
I tried on my save and did not like it at all. I want to see the animal in the world , doing its own thing, even if it is a super rare event or something. It feels too much like cabin fever, i really hope they change it cause this could be a good addition.
I specially agree with the "what it should have been" section. Should have been like the old bear, like a wolf following high scent players: a slow, but never stopping quiet stalking. Always following, wont catch you unless you go too slow. Then suddenly, it gets you, you barely hear its steps running towards you, rewarding attentive players which are paying attention to their surroundings, with a chance to shoot at it before it attacks you
This is my only point of disagreement as well.
And according to Zaknafeins latest video, the cougar knife is very powerful in wolf struggles.
https://youtu.be/uKHjTny3Qf4?si=w0yUQiiDwgRyir-8
Just make it spawn behind the player’s cone of view and start running really silently with no music or cues, and then it jumps on you .
That would be fair and rewarding for people who look at their surroundings all the times
Everything to the point....i will never let a stupid scripted Pet in my game. time to move on to the next game, after 700h TLD and waiting for the "cool" stuff, i am bored to wait. On XBOX we have still no Extra-Setting for the Gamepad to separate Control for Camera & Aiming, still no Rumble-Support and still a toooo close Renderdistance for objects. Dont know what they really do at Hinterland. Time to build some Villages in Valheim.
Here's how I would do the AI of the cougar.
First of all it should roam anywhere.
Its hearing, smelling and sight are exellent and better than that of the player.
Upon noticing the player, it would immediately hide, either behind a rock or up on a tree and start watching the player from there. Its exellent senses will ensure that the player will almost never notice it before it notices the player.
From there it may decide to proceed with attack, when player gets close enough, or start stalking the player silently if player moves away. It will always try to sneak behind the player. Actuall attack is triggered when it gets close enough(this distance is larger than the distance other animals register the player) and player hasn't noticed it. It is incredibly fast and covers the distance in silence, only growling in the last few meters. If player notices it, thing may go like this: if player tries to shoot at it, it will be usually too long of a distance and this will scare the cougar away. Player will be safe for at least 12 hours. If player doesn't shoot, he may choose to retreat backwards to a safehouse. The cougar would not initiate attack if the player is facing it. Nor will it move from cover to cover if the player is facing it. This programming of the A..I. will ensure that the cougar will not be a scripted event, but will be an actual animal, even though extremely difficult to surprise or kill. And it will manage to get the drop on very oblivious players.
few notes: it will leave paw prints in the snow but they will last very briefly. Maybe a minute or two.
It may decide to cancel stalking and run away, if it decides it has been spotted. This is determined by the A.I. If the player stares too much at the cover spots of the cougar and aims his weapon reticle at it.
The cougar may attack from a tree. If it is in a tree and the player hasn't noticed it, it ignores the front facing no attack rule. It simply waits for the player to pass under the tree and jumps at the right moment.
I think this is doable.
Oh no. This is exactly the behavior I was afraid they would try to implement when I first heard the detailed announcement. It sounds like a really phoned-in addition to an otherwise great game.
I think the worst part to me is the giant HUD warning when it starts getting closer, the phase where it’s slowly starting to encroach into the region should see it howling in the distance, random carcasses popping up, claw marks on trees etc. Once you’re about two days or so out from it being active, maybe it starts scratching the doors or leaving more ravaged carcasses and you get paranoia like the Darkwalker challenge. Then when it’s actually active, it doesn’t make any noise at all, but the ominous theme plays when you’re outside
I'd say they should code the Cougar similar to how they coded the Gargitron nextbot
Make it stalk you similar to a wolf however, they always try to stay out of sight (and if possible on higher ground), and they would have to take into account which direction you're facing, if you have/are holding a firearm/bow, your condition etc.
So instead of them just spawning in randomly and attacking you, they instead spawn in, stalk you, flee if you spot them, try to stay hidden and only attack if you are distracted/have false sense of security, so it could attack you when you are for example checking your inventory, chopping wood etc, or they could attack you if you detected them at very close range and they don't have a chance to flee.
This could also make for an interesting game of cat and mouse as this would give the player a chance to try hunt down the Cougars themselves.
I do think there is already enough Wildlife in the game and it might have become a bit cluttered with another predator going (or ambling) round.
Let’s look at a cougar too, it’s not an animal you’re likely to see anytime before it attacks. It’s not an animal you’re likely to see or get anywhere near to should you choose to go hunt one either and is certainly not an animal you're likely to see just taking a stroll on it's predetermined circuit like the other animals. So having one ambling around like the other wildlife would be an injustice, i think there are signs of it being around like half eaten rabbits etc. It must have been hard to implement it and it not just become a faster bear or a tankier wolf. Like okay so the cougar is instead a bigger wolf that can climb on things so you can't cheese it.
Considering the big picture I think while not a perfect execution, the addition of the cougar and how it’s implemented is acceptable. There are already bears, wolves and timberwolves who behave in such a way and the experience of being followed, chased, stomped and attacked has already been covered. Another thing to shoot, another thing to chase you around, another thing to wait until it passes so you can proceed? Meh. At least it's something a bit different, something else to think about, to stress about when you're chopping wood and setting up a cooking session you now have to consider the timer or can I make my bear coat before the cougar timer starts.. I left my hatchet out there by the fires, if I go out the cougar could jump me... oooo what to do!! Things like that add to the stress and atmospheric magic that this game offers.
They could have reconciled both approaches by making it semi-scripted. Not many people are arguing it should be found in the overworld like a bear; instead, people are asking for a better experience of being hunted.
Perhaps, this is not the vibe I got from the post though. This is my thoughts on that, why I think it was done the way it was done.
Beyond that I will need to play more and have more encounters before I can decide if I think it's broken, half-baked and in need of a rework.
Mods really need to get this sub under control. Make a megathread about cougars and delete every other thread about it.
Every swinging dick on here feels they're so individually important that their very unique opinion deserves and entire thread. So much spam.
It is natural that an update should result in a lot of threads about its features. Otherwise we'd have a megathread for every popular subject whenever it's announced. IMO, anyhow.
I understand all the expectations except the idea that you'd have a fair chance of seeing it first and hunting it down.
The best thing about the cougar is it forces the player to experience humility in the face of something far more powerful.
You’ve basically explained all my criticisms with the cougar. I would also say that cougar offers no expression of individual player skill as well. Every single player has to get TP mauled to get the reward, the only difference being if they managed to hit the cougar and what weapon they use, if it even appears at all and doesn’t spawn behind a wall or hidden behind a rock. If they wanted it to be game-y they could have it spawn close to you somewhere blocked by LOS so you could just have a chance of killing it before it mauls you. The current risk vs reward for the new items isn’t worth it imho except maybe for the new feat. A cougar mauling should be a punishment for failing to react in time, not a 100% guarantee.
As implemented there's no intrigue, no suspense, no counterplay, it's just a glorified affliction with a cutscene. Stock up food, water, meds, and new clothing for the recovery; wait for the timer to run down; trigger your mauling and affliction; hope you hit your quicktime event; then wait to recover
And god forbid the cougar doesn’t get stuck running into a wall, goes behind a rock or inside a wall in your QTE.
I agree. And in the Hunted challenge, the Old Bear also spawns somewhere nearby and starts to run to you. That should have been the minimum for the cougar in my opinion. Let it spawn in behind the player or out of sight and attack very fast and very quietly.
Or pounce on you from above, from a boulder/tree/roof. Crouching out of sight, waiting. If you see it, it buggers off. Gotta keep super vigilant. As time goes on, it happens more often, but you can never get a kill shot off before it takes off upon sighting. More time passes, it gets smarter at hiding, eventually & inevitably it gets you. IDK, just spitballing.
That would be so paranoia-inducing, oh my god. Imagine walking somewhere and frantically looking at roofs, boulders, other obstacles, not knowing from where cougar would attack. So much wasted potential, HL really screwed up.
This one guy on a video I saw had the idea that if you were vigilant enough and saw the cougar while it was stalking you, you would have a few second window to shoot it. The cougar would be invincible in this state so you can’t kill it, but hitting it with a bullet or arrow would injure it and make the struggle much easier.
Do you know if repairing the hood requires another cougar pelt or just normal leather? If it's the former then it's 100% not worth it.
God I didn't even think of that.. you know they're going to go with the pain in the ass option.
If it works like every other animal hide clothing that’s in the game then yeah it’s 100% going to require another pelt. The moosehide satchel is the only animal craft that just takes leather and not its respective drop.
> I would also say that cougar offers no expression of individual player skill as well. How you prepare for the attack is a skill. You can choose the area for the showdown by going there fully stocked and ready to go. Also, being able to kill the cougar at all is absolutely a skill. You can prepare your rifle/archery/revolver skill before the encounter, you can physically get good enough at shooting to have a better shot at killing it. I don't disagree with the rest of your post though.
Your rifle/revolver/archery skill makes no difference in being able to kill a cougar apart from maybe the weapon sway potentially screwing you over, its a one hit kill regardless. Protection also seems to work a bit weird with the cougar, I've been mauled with over 80% protection and still had around 60-65% of my health gone in a single attack, the randomness of the attacks also means that the cougar can potentially never spawn in while your out in the open, I've experienced both waiting a full in game day for a cougar to spawn out in the open and it never appearing, to being attacked twice in 1 hour which killed one of my throwaway runs when I was testing out the bow vs the cougar. Whilst my second example is almost certainly extremely rare, there isn't much player skill in "avoiding" two entirely unavoidable attacks before I can get to any indoor shelter. Preparing for an attack however is something that should be done, but that mostly involves getting lots of bandages and old mans beard to treat the severe lacerations affliction and not the actual creature itself. Just my opinion though, I absolutely wouldn't have died in that throwaway run if I had better aim with the bow at the time and actually hit the cougar.
Honestly, I thought there would be some kind of territorial markings of the cougars encroaching presence. Like it stalking, or leaving dead animals in a position or mangled state that makes it clear that it's a cougar. Being able to find a nest in the region., see it stalking from inaccessible terrain. Im not super against it spawning directly on you, but I would like it better if it spawned right behind me, announce it's presence allowing about 3 seconds of reaction time as it zig zags to be in a jagged rushed state. And of course leaving tracks in the process and will not attack you while you are within reach of a house. It should be a do or die stand off as is, but feel less out of your control, but be extremely difficult. It would be nice to find it in place where it can be caught off guard. Maybe while taking a dump or eating or something. And those droppings could be left permanently to alert you to it's presence. And poop could be used... Somehow. Put still usable.
From the video, it does seem to leave random dead wildlife once it enters the area. Of course, you would already know that it is there because you would have the cougar head notification on you screen. I really feel like they should have made the cougar spawn once you pass the amount of time for it to spawn. Then have it be a physical but very elusive presence in the region. Make it a predator that is very hard to win against, once attacked. Build off of the wolf AI and have it stalk you but let the player also be able to stumble upon it and kill it.
I agree with you on every point here. The cougar in its current state, is half-baked and should not have been implemented. Having the cougar basically be a QTE that spawns on top of you is beyond lazy. I have to wonder why more time wasn't given to the development of the cougar? The way the cougar was implemented also gives me cause for concern as to how base customization will be implemented in part 6. The cougar was announced 8 years ago, along with other features and Hinterland managed to allow such a poor implementation to become a part of the game, when they have clearly shown that they are able to do competent work.
This... Was not an easy read, but one that must be read. You did amazing work putting this together. Thank you for your time and effort.
They feel very much like a placeholder mechanic, the kind you'd duct tape together if you were given far too short a deadline. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's how they feel. Janky.
You pretty much nailed what my expectations and disappointments are. I really hope that Hinterland changes how the cougar works, or at least let me see it before I get jumped.
I haven't encountered the cougar myself yet, but yeah what's being described feels a little disappointing and almost lazy. I was expecting a stealth predator that you'd rarely catch a glimpse of. A tail disappearing behind a rock. A rustle in the trees. A few footprints. Remains of an animal carcass. But I would expect to be able to hunt it, follow the signs to the den it has in the region it's active in (not 1 in the whole world), while actively running the risk of hearing a growl behind you a second before you're mauled. I also wasn't expecting a bunch of HUD warnings, that does sound very immersion breaking. Now we just have to hope that Raph doesn't go straight to playing the victim and actually takes these posts (or the ones on the forum) as \*constructive\* critisism rather than an attack. I love the studio and the game, but the way they (and especially Raph) handle critisism sometimes...
> Now we just have to hope that Raph doesn't go straight to playing the victim and actually takes these posts (or the ones on the forum) as *constructive* critisism rather than an attack. I love the studio and the game, but the way they (and especially Raph) handle critisism sometimes... Their replies on the update video say they're basically not willing to take criticism on the cougar until people have played with it for at least a week to see that it's actually great. Which, fair enough I guess, but I don't have high hopes that they mean it and aren't just saying that to deflect criticism like they always do.
On one hand I can understand why they would chose to just spawn it on you: its supposed to be a super stealthy ambush predator you wont see coming. On the other hand: this isn't d&d, rolling a 45 on a stealth check doesn't make you invisible, so if you park your ass in a cave and face the only way in theres realistically no way you wouldn't see it unless it mastered the art of quantum tunnelling. >I expected a cue system a lot akin to Moose with little HUD utilization As somebody who's bad at recognizing cues I personally appreciate this, and sometimes my audio device bugs out so I appreciate the popup.
It seems really wrong that there is going to be an attack that you absolutely cannot avoid no matter how you behave. It seems like if you made it appear in your region then immediately left the region you could not be attacked once it has appeared? Idk...the unavoidable struggle seems messed up.
So once it appears in your region, you must leave for 10 days. If you leave, spend a day somewhere else and then come back, it sounds like that resets the timer for the cougar to leave. So you would have to actually stay out of that region for 10 whole days before you could come back and have the cougar disappear.
i think youre giving the cougar head wrap and the new knife a bit less credit than you should, but i do overall agree with your point. i honestly just feel if they spawned behind you then ran for 2 seconds making loud scary noises they would feel 10x better. i really dislike the random jumpscare, especially as you can be got in certain outdoor buildings like fishing huts.
It could also happen in a wide open area, a second after you did a 360° check.
Oh yeah, the 360 check. My favorite kind of check.
I'm obviously not a native speaker, is there a better way to word this?
[Let's just say that the cougar has failed the 360° check.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelongdark/s/8jDpqtlGzp)
What are your expectations for the future of the cougar? Personally, my impression is that Hinterland doesn't currently have a lot of resources for TLD development and I don't expect any further improvements of the cougar, at least nothing that changes the current system of a completely scripted struggle.
Mods then
Yeah, the cougar should be just visible on the distant horizon stalking you ominously (but always staying outside of your firing range), and when it decides to go for the kill it should be able to reach you within like 3 seconds. This would make it a terrifying enemy while not making it another un-fun punishment mechanic.
Genuine question, is the cougar active across ALL difficulties? Can you turn it off in custom mode?
You get an enable/disable toggle when you load up a pre update save or when you start a new game. I.e. you last played your run last Thursday. You boot it up today, you are presented with the option to enable or disable the cougar.
I'm on console (Xbox) and did not get this prompt when loading a current run post update. Not sure what to think of this, ie. is the cougar enabled or not. Is it a console thing?
I didn't get the prompt when I Resumed my pre-patch game, I did when I used the actual Load option from the menu.
Just tried this, using the Load option on Xbox did not present the option either.
Just confirmed that this is true on ps4. Thanks for all the feedback I was sweating for a second
You can turn it off in any mode and even your current game. That and scurvy are now able to be toggled on and off.
To add a little overall criticism of the mechanic; the cougar is honestly something most players will never even encounter. The timer on Interloper is 20 days. Outside of stopping to craft clothes and forge tools, the global item decay alone is more than enough incentive for the player to always be on the move. Unless you get an affliction like Intestinal Parasites/Broken Ribs its only really late game in the +80~100 day range where you would want to linger in a region for any length. For example, to start seriously fishing to handle Scurvy... which is now a problem with all the packaged food gone. Even so, its still very easy to avoid. Bounce between Coastal Highway and Desolation Point every ten or so days and you'll never encounter it. That means the only way you'll meet the Cougar is if you intentionally try to fight it. And, considering the damage you take, its just not worth it imo. A hat clothing item that is just *slightly* better than the several other good options and a knife (which you still have to forge) that excels in struggles... which you really shouldn't be getting into in the first place. I was really hoping that the Cougar would be a threatening mechanic with a high risk/reward factor at play but honestly its scarier seeing the Cabin Fever warning. At least then I have to change up *how* play rather than just go elsewhere for a while.
I don’t dislike the cougar but the major issues for me is you have to be mauled before being able to take it down. There’s no chance at defense when it decides to strike. Deep lacerations is pretty intense and you can bleed out in your sleep while trying to recover. Which leads me to my second critique. When you have deep lacerations and say you fail to kill the cougar, you’re going to have a terrible time. Even worse time if you’re in a huge map like FA. You’ll need to recover but the cougar is still out there ready to re-attack. Ultimately I love the cougar. Implementation needs work to give us a fighting chance. It’s also pretty easily avoidable. I was certain it’d be waiting for me in my current save but I guess move around too much 😅
I haven't played in a while and am more just a fan of the game reading these posts. It seems like an insanely poor choice to teleport it to you. They could have given it the same ai as the wolf except make the radius it roams on the map get smaller and smaller and closer to you over time, so that it's not a guaranteed 'ok timer up here comes cougar' thing, and instead feels like it's actually stalking you but if you keep moving it will take longer for it to reach you, with the timer resetting if you spend time away from the area it's in.
Nailed it. I hope that Hinterland read and take what you've said on board. Thanks for making this post.
I agree with all your criticisms and I'll add a separate one. I don't like that the cougar only punishes excessively camping in one region, when being constantly on the move is how I always play anyway (and I know many other people). This means for many the cougar is literally a threat you have to choose to bring on yourself rather than the inherent danger it should be. I think cougars should be found in 3-4 random regions that rotate at 10-20 day intervals (maybe with an early game grace period). This means it will still eventually find you if you don't move, but also adds new danger to wandering the map that you always run the risk of stumbling into cougar territory. Plus feels less immersion breaking than a single, omniscient cougar that knows your every move. Obviously the cougar mechanics would need an overhaul for this to be a fun addition and that should be the main focus for now.
I agree, it punishes the wrong thing. I would add it does so poorly. You can just make camp at the edge of a region and deal with the chore, or conversely people will most likely just try to make it come to kill it(thus camping in one region anyway).
I agree completely. I just want to comment on commenters saying that the struggle happens no matter how you behave, and the struggle should be a punishment for bad play. It kind of *is* tied to behavior, just in a different way than everything else. It is a punishment for gettin. Too comfortable, rather than for getting too close, missing a shot, etc. How long you stay in a region is also an aspect of play, just a different one than other wildlife respond to. But still, I agree that it should at least exist for a few seconds before jumping you. Existing only in the cutscene is too harsh and also immersion breaking. You can be in a completely open field with 360° of vision, and still get jumped. That’s silly.
I tried on my save and did not like it at all. I want to see the animal in the world , doing its own thing, even if it is a super rare event or something. It feels too much like cabin fever, i really hope they change it cause this could be a good addition.
I specially agree with the "what it should have been" section. Should have been like the old bear, like a wolf following high scent players: a slow, but never stopping quiet stalking. Always following, wont catch you unless you go too slow. Then suddenly, it gets you, you barely hear its steps running towards you, rewarding attentive players which are paying attention to their surroundings, with a chance to shoot at it before it attacks you
Only thing i disagree with are the rewards. They are literally amazing. It makes the best head gear in the game, and who doesn't want a karambit?
This is my only point of disagreement as well. And according to Zaknafeins latest video, the cougar knife is very powerful in wolf struggles. https://youtu.be/uKHjTny3Qf4?si=w0yUQiiDwgRyir-8
Just make it spawn behind the player’s cone of view and start running really silently with no music or cues, and then it jumps on you . That would be fair and rewarding for people who look at their surroundings all the times
Cougar is a complete waste of time and I will never use it in any save, unless they completely redo it.
Everything to the point....i will never let a stupid scripted Pet in my game. time to move on to the next game, after 700h TLD and waiting for the "cool" stuff, i am bored to wait. On XBOX we have still no Extra-Setting for the Gamepad to separate Control for Camera & Aiming, still no Rumble-Support and still a toooo close Renderdistance for objects. Dont know what they really do at Hinterland. Time to build some Villages in Valheim.
Here's how I would do the AI of the cougar. First of all it should roam anywhere. Its hearing, smelling and sight are exellent and better than that of the player. Upon noticing the player, it would immediately hide, either behind a rock or up on a tree and start watching the player from there. Its exellent senses will ensure that the player will almost never notice it before it notices the player. From there it may decide to proceed with attack, when player gets close enough, or start stalking the player silently if player moves away. It will always try to sneak behind the player. Actuall attack is triggered when it gets close enough(this distance is larger than the distance other animals register the player) and player hasn't noticed it. It is incredibly fast and covers the distance in silence, only growling in the last few meters. If player notices it, thing may go like this: if player tries to shoot at it, it will be usually too long of a distance and this will scare the cougar away. Player will be safe for at least 12 hours. If player doesn't shoot, he may choose to retreat backwards to a safehouse. The cougar would not initiate attack if the player is facing it. Nor will it move from cover to cover if the player is facing it. This programming of the A..I. will ensure that the cougar will not be a scripted event, but will be an actual animal, even though extremely difficult to surprise or kill. And it will manage to get the drop on very oblivious players. few notes: it will leave paw prints in the snow but they will last very briefly. Maybe a minute or two. It may decide to cancel stalking and run away, if it decides it has been spotted. This is determined by the A.I. If the player stares too much at the cover spots of the cougar and aims his weapon reticle at it. The cougar may attack from a tree. If it is in a tree and the player hasn't noticed it, it ignores the front facing no attack rule. It simply waits for the player to pass under the tree and jumps at the right moment. I think this is doable.
good job on this
Oh no. This is exactly the behavior I was afraid they would try to implement when I first heard the detailed announcement. It sounds like a really phoned-in addition to an otherwise great game.
Agreed.
I think the worst part to me is the giant HUD warning when it starts getting closer, the phase where it’s slowly starting to encroach into the region should see it howling in the distance, random carcasses popping up, claw marks on trees etc. Once you’re about two days or so out from it being active, maybe it starts scratching the doors or leaving more ravaged carcasses and you get paranoia like the Darkwalker challenge. Then when it’s actually active, it doesn’t make any noise at all, but the ominous theme plays when you’re outside
I'd say they should code the Cougar similar to how they coded the Gargitron nextbot Make it stalk you similar to a wolf however, they always try to stay out of sight (and if possible on higher ground), and they would have to take into account which direction you're facing, if you have/are holding a firearm/bow, your condition etc. So instead of them just spawning in randomly and attacking you, they instead spawn in, stalk you, flee if you spot them, try to stay hidden and only attack if you are distracted/have false sense of security, so it could attack you when you are for example checking your inventory, chopping wood etc, or they could attack you if you detected them at very close range and they don't have a chance to flee. This could also make for an interesting game of cat and mouse as this would give the player a chance to try hunt down the Cougars themselves.
Pretty much dead on my opinion on the matter. Here's hopping they'll listen to our feedback and give us a later rework on the cougar.
I do think there is already enough Wildlife in the game and it might have become a bit cluttered with another predator going (or ambling) round. Let’s look at a cougar too, it’s not an animal you’re likely to see anytime before it attacks. It’s not an animal you’re likely to see or get anywhere near to should you choose to go hunt one either and is certainly not an animal you're likely to see just taking a stroll on it's predetermined circuit like the other animals. So having one ambling around like the other wildlife would be an injustice, i think there are signs of it being around like half eaten rabbits etc. It must have been hard to implement it and it not just become a faster bear or a tankier wolf. Like okay so the cougar is instead a bigger wolf that can climb on things so you can't cheese it. Considering the big picture I think while not a perfect execution, the addition of the cougar and how it’s implemented is acceptable. There are already bears, wolves and timberwolves who behave in such a way and the experience of being followed, chased, stomped and attacked has already been covered. Another thing to shoot, another thing to chase you around, another thing to wait until it passes so you can proceed? Meh. At least it's something a bit different, something else to think about, to stress about when you're chopping wood and setting up a cooking session you now have to consider the timer or can I make my bear coat before the cougar timer starts.. I left my hatchet out there by the fires, if I go out the cougar could jump me... oooo what to do!! Things like that add to the stress and atmospheric magic that this game offers.
They could have reconciled both approaches by making it semi-scripted. Not many people are arguing it should be found in the overworld like a bear; instead, people are asking for a better experience of being hunted.
Perhaps, this is not the vibe I got from the post though. This is my thoughts on that, why I think it was done the way it was done. Beyond that I will need to play more and have more encounters before I can decide if I think it's broken, half-baked and in need of a rework.
Mods really need to get this sub under control. Make a megathread about cougars and delete every other thread about it. Every swinging dick on here feels they're so individually important that their very unique opinion deserves and entire thread. So much spam.
It is natural that an update should result in a lot of threads about its features. Otherwise we'd have a megathread for every popular subject whenever it's announced. IMO, anyhow.
Discussion??? On a discussion forum???? 😱😱
Couldnt agree more
I understand all the expectations except the idea that you'd have a fair chance of seeing it first and hunting it down. The best thing about the cougar is it forces the player to experience humility in the face of something far more powerful.