Azrael, a LT and 10 hellblasters
20 s8 shots with lethals and sustained with shoot on death
A redemptor overcharging the macro plasma and then charging
Roughly one dead meganob, 2 if you're lucky. Probably the last thing you want to shoot with your hellblasters for the cost you sink into them- best option is to tie up manz with chaff/,deathwing knights and shoot other targets with them.
You have to specify that it's due to Meganobz ability to trigger FNP4+ on WAAAAGH, which means you gotta bait out the WAAAAGH twice.
Thing is, WAAAAGH is called at the beginning of the battleround, so just pick to fire your death blob when they didn't call a WAAAAGH.
If running Gladius and doing that Fire Discipline strat you stack an extra AP and ignores cover for a 8/-4/2 weapons profile that they need to save on a 6+.
>Thing is, WAAAAGH is called at the beginning of the battleround, so just pick to fire your death blob when they didn't call a WAAAAGH.
Don't think that'll be a plausible situation almost ever, assuming your opponent isn't an idiot. Turn one Manz are in a trukk/battlewagon or on a tellyporta, so you don't have LoS. Turn two if the waagh isn't on they're behind a wall waiting for the waagh next turn, so you don't have LoS. And turn 3/4 the Waagh is on more than likely on and that's probably the only time you'll have a decent LoS on them. Turn 5 is irrelevant because the game's over at that point.
That's the predominant issue people are complaining about manz for- two turns of waagh and they might as well have the fnp all game because there's only two real rounds of shooting in a game now with most tournaments adopting the 'everything is obscuring' rules.
Hence why I say don't even try to kill them- a good ork player is only going to have them poke their heads out on a turn when the waagh is up, so all you can do really is tie them up in melee and stop them from getting into your gunline. Or shoot their vehicles so they have to footslog across the board, that's the other option obviously.
The biggest thing with high pressure melee armies like this is you need to screen and screen hard. The only infiltrate units Orks have is super expensive at 135 meaning they more than likely aren't bringing any in MANZ spam. 2 squads of Scouts are in all of my lists for these specific types of armies that want to go fast but also have no Infiltrate units.
If you want to see how to deal with pressure melee armies, Happy Krumping Wargaming just put out an awesome video on how to screen properly for shooting armies into pressure lists. Give it a watch and it should help in general.
As far as killing them goes, that's a very uphill battle. Weight of fire is generally the best I find, though it's hard to do everywhere.
Scout screens for first wagggh. Having a solid melee unit to soak up the second. I’d keep a decent counter punch in deep strike or strategic to strike their deployment zone.
I’d scout screen or use some cheap battle line to tie them up during the first wah. Then punch into them with my knights or aggressor and land raider in turn 3 and kind of force them to use their second wah. Then I’d bring down some inceptors in their deployment zone maybe have an executioner with assault intercessors or something come out of strategic reserves behind their units.
Led by a chaplain I've had them do good work, mostly the knight captain of course, but still. Otherwise, it's not their job to. Lock them down with the knight, take the hit, dish a little pain back, and next turn fall back and light them up with whatever you need to like others have suggested. Even better scenario if you can then charge them with some other good melee unit/units.
Lmao, everyone here saying 'shoot them with expensive guns' misses how poorly those guns do against a 2+ with a 4+ fnp. The trick isn't to kill them- it's to hold them in place while the fnp wears off THEN shoot them. This is a part of why people have been starting to take Deathwing Knights finally- they can't kill manz particularly well, but with the -1 damage they can hold them for 2 turns easily whole the rest of your army picks off the other easier to handle targets.
Redemptors, stormravens given lethal hits, land raider redeemer+overwatch, hellblasters with lt for lethal hits. But in reality it will most likely not be as big of an issue since orks are liable to catch a rather large nerf this week from the mfm and dataslate. So most likely before your next game you will already have an easier time against bully boyz.
I've played a few games against Bully Boys and they have floored me each time, I cant seem to work out how to deal with blobs of Nobz and Mega Nobz with their 2 turns of Wahhh.
My buddy runs a bully boy list, so far I've won both times using inner circle, but both times was a back and forth slogging match, like 1 point by 1 point, though I pulled ahead turn 4 and cinched it turn 5 one game, and he conceded another game turn 4 after he lost his last mega Nob.
But what do you play? And vs what kind of Bully Boys list?
Bully Boys can be competitive. The only competitive DA list is Ironstorm with Darkshroud, Stormravens, etc. And it’d still be a hard game.
Land raider Redeemers. Orkz should have a hard time with them even in melee. The redeemer should be able to take out almost an entire unit on your turn and then another in overwatch.
Lmao, everyone here saying 'shoot them with expensive guns' misses how poorly those guns do against a 2+ with a 4+ fnp. The trick isn't to kill them- it's to hold them in place while the fnp wears off THEN shoot them. This is a part of why people have been starting to take Deathwing Knights finally- they can't kill manz particularly well, but with the -1 damage they can hold them for 2 turns easily whole the rest of your army picks off the other easier to handle targets.
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Azrael, a LT and 10 hellblasters 20 s8 shots with lethals and sustained with shoot on death A redemptor overcharging the macro plasma and then charging
Yeah this. Hellblasters delete any elites they look at.
Roughly one dead meganob, 2 if you're lucky. Probably the last thing you want to shoot with your hellblasters for the cost you sink into them- best option is to tie up manz with chaff/,deathwing knights and shoot other targets with them.
You have to specify that it's due to Meganobz ability to trigger FNP4+ on WAAAAGH, which means you gotta bait out the WAAAAGH twice. Thing is, WAAAAGH is called at the beginning of the battleround, so just pick to fire your death blob when they didn't call a WAAAAGH. If running Gladius and doing that Fire Discipline strat you stack an extra AP and ignores cover for a 8/-4/2 weapons profile that they need to save on a 6+.
>Thing is, WAAAAGH is called at the beginning of the battleround, so just pick to fire your death blob when they didn't call a WAAAAGH. Don't think that'll be a plausible situation almost ever, assuming your opponent isn't an idiot. Turn one Manz are in a trukk/battlewagon or on a tellyporta, so you don't have LoS. Turn two if the waagh isn't on they're behind a wall waiting for the waagh next turn, so you don't have LoS. And turn 3/4 the Waagh is on more than likely on and that's probably the only time you'll have a decent LoS on them. Turn 5 is irrelevant because the game's over at that point. That's the predominant issue people are complaining about manz for- two turns of waagh and they might as well have the fnp all game because there's only two real rounds of shooting in a game now with most tournaments adopting the 'everything is obscuring' rules. Hence why I say don't even try to kill them- a good ork player is only going to have them poke their heads out on a turn when the waagh is up, so all you can do really is tie them up in melee and stop them from getting into your gunline. Or shoot their vehicles so they have to footslog across the board, that's the other option obviously.
The biggest thing with high pressure melee armies like this is you need to screen and screen hard. The only infiltrate units Orks have is super expensive at 135 meaning they more than likely aren't bringing any in MANZ spam. 2 squads of Scouts are in all of my lists for these specific types of armies that want to go fast but also have no Infiltrate units. If you want to see how to deal with pressure melee armies, Happy Krumping Wargaming just put out an awesome video on how to screen properly for shooting armies into pressure lists. Give it a watch and it should help in general. As far as killing them goes, that's a very uphill battle. Weight of fire is generally the best I find, though it's hard to do everywhere.
Scout screens for first wagggh. Having a solid melee unit to soak up the second. I’d keep a decent counter punch in deep strike or strategic to strike their deployment zone.
What units do you suggest for the counter punch? Knights can just survive but they dont make much of a dent in return.
I’d scout screen or use some cheap battle line to tie them up during the first wah. Then punch into them with my knights or aggressor and land raider in turn 3 and kind of force them to use their second wah. Then I’d bring down some inceptors in their deployment zone maybe have an executioner with assault intercessors or something come out of strategic reserves behind their units.
Led by a chaplain I've had them do good work, mostly the knight captain of course, but still. Otherwise, it's not their job to. Lock them down with the knight, take the hit, dish a little pain back, and next turn fall back and light them up with whatever you need to like others have suggested. Even better scenario if you can then charge them with some other good melee unit/units.
Plasma inceptors can hit pretty hard but they're kinda glass cannons
Lmao, everyone here saying 'shoot them with expensive guns' misses how poorly those guns do against a 2+ with a 4+ fnp. The trick isn't to kill them- it's to hold them in place while the fnp wears off THEN shoot them. This is a part of why people have been starting to take Deathwing Knights finally- they can't kill manz particularly well, but with the -1 damage they can hold them for 2 turns easily whole the rest of your army picks off the other easier to handle targets.
1. Overloaded Plasma 2. maces to faces ...well after that I'm all out of ideas
Redemptors, stormravens given lethal hits, land raider redeemer+overwatch, hellblasters with lt for lethal hits. But in reality it will most likely not be as big of an issue since orks are liable to catch a rather large nerf this week from the mfm and dataslate. So most likely before your next game you will already have an easier time against bully boyz.
I currently own 2x redeemers and 2 redemptors so ill give them a whirl. Maybe pick up some Hellblasters in next few months.
I've played a few games against Bully Boys and they have floored me each time, I cant seem to work out how to deal with blobs of Nobz and Mega Nobz with their 2 turns of Wahhh.
My buddy runs a bully boy list, so far I've won both times using inner circle, but both times was a back and forth slogging match, like 1 point by 1 point, though I pulled ahead turn 4 and cinched it turn 5 one game, and he conceded another game turn 4 after he lost his last mega Nob.
But what do you play? And vs what kind of Bully Boys list? Bully Boys can be competitive. The only competitive DA list is Ironstorm with Darkshroud, Stormravens, etc. And it’d still be a hard game.
It's the only competitive list because it's the list the influencers tell everyone to use.
Land raider Redeemers. Orkz should have a hard time with them even in melee. The redeemer should be able to take out almost an entire unit on your turn and then another in overwatch.
Lmao, everyone here saying 'shoot them with expensive guns' misses how poorly those guns do against a 2+ with a 4+ fnp. The trick isn't to kill them- it's to hold them in place while the fnp wears off THEN shoot them. This is a part of why people have been starting to take Deathwing Knights finally- they can't kill manz particularly well, but with the -1 damage they can hold them for 2 turns easily whole the rest of your army picks off the other easier to handle targets.
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Azrael with his hellblasters, a ballistus dread backing them up with the blast grenades and lascannon
The same way every other army... throw trash at them and ignore them until waaggghss is over
Unless you're rocking ironstorm and lucky, a DA matchup into a competitive ork list is probably pretty close to an auto loss.