I think its the flexibility of GTF. I've tried ICTF last week, i'm not a pro player but i found that i missed a lot of opportunities by not having the abilities of the GTF. The +1 to wound of the ICTF is great but very limited since only availlable to Deathwing.
Yeah, ICTF has powerful buffs but is balanced by the limited units that benefit from them - personally I love that style of detachment, it makes them feel more thematic and fun to try and build around.
By attaching a character you can give a unit (like Hellblasters) the Deathwing keyword so they benefit too.
I realised this and for ICTF and Assault Intercessors could really benefit from the +1 wound along with reroll wound rolls built in, but would need a character, so I decided to kitbash an Asmodai solely for this purpose
Only the named Dark Angel characters do (terminators get deathwing anyway).
Sternguard and Vanguard Vets get deathwing by default. As do the ICC and Bladeguard.
When a unit is comprised of models with different keywords (e.g. leaders and the lead) the keywords apply to the entire unit. All Dark Angel characters have the Deathwing keyword.
This is a core rule. It also applies in other situations as well, such as with anti-x weapons.
Edit: if you're wanting to cite the specific part of the rules, search for the "Keywords" section in the rules commentary
Being able to fall back from a melee fight, shoot all your ranged weapons, and then charge right back in is a very powerful ability and really boosts your damage output
It's the main reason I run jump assault intercessors, with a captain if I'm feeling fancy.
+1S on the charge, yes please.
11 dice to roll a 4+ for a mortal wounds each, every day.
Lance as well? Oh, go on then since it's potentially free with the captain.
Then the ability to do all that EVERY TURN? It's even doable for 30pts/0cp if you take adept of the codex on the captain.
As the fella on AOW said, GTF has the best tool box for scoring. You need to score secondaries to win in this season of Warhammer. And ICTF is really only great at scoring primary. So the GTF rounds out that issue.
i still feel like vanguard has the best scoring. but GTF has more damage output in more situations while still being good at scoring.
GTF is like the second best choice in everything, which means it's generally just the best marine detachment on an allcomers list.
i prefer having a clear win condition, and i have more reps in on vanguard. GTF i've never won on, but i'm bad at 1 turn activation armies (despite me playing iron jaws in AoS, at least it's clear how to play them).
I really vanguard for the up and down and extra tankyness through -1 to hit and cover. The strats are also nice for damage.
The downside is it is almost exclusively infantry based where GTF is almost completely universal- works with dreadnoughts and armour as well as the lion and deathwing.
i like infantry which is why i like it, but my lists still have them. but i generally run the redeemer, ballistus and lancer which don't usually need strategem support.
The Gladius supports our unique units much better than the other detachments do.
Inner Circle Task Force is decent at letting you punch really hard on Objectives and makes you a bit more durable to get there - Gladius lets you punch really hard wherever the heck you want to and gets you there faster.
The Lion, DWK and ICC are all mainly melee-focussed units. The Gladius helps them get there with Advance and Charge; and Fallback and Charge to keep them in punching where we want them.
We also have access to Honour the Chapter in Gladius for LANCE (+1 to Wound) and +1AP - which again provides some mega boosts with out units. This is especially the case on the DWK where running them with a Terminator Chaplain is becoming the main block for the 4+ FnP vs MW (including Dev now) to cut-off one of the main routes people used to attack them as it bypasses the 4++ and -1 Damage profile. The Chaplain also gives them +1 to Wound in melee which diminishes the use of Honour the Chapter until you hit a target with -1 to Wound (ie Scarab Occult Terminators) when you can then use Honour the Chapter to completely overcome their defense and end up Wounding on 2's.
One of the more subtle benefits of Gladius is the Squad Tactics stratagem, which allows an Infantry unit to move d6" (or 6" if in Tactical Doctrine) which is superb for a more melee-oriented army as you can use it to move away from opponent charges, which can leave then stranded and ready for you to charge (and therefore fight first) in your turn;
OR
You can move back towards The Lion which could drop you within a 6" range of him, so an opponent charging you becomes viable for a 1CP Heroic Intervention from The Lion - who does have Fight First and will therefore swing before your opponents charging unit.
Dark Angels also uniquely benefit from Hellblasters + Azrael + Fire Discipline Lieutenant in Gladius instead of the usual Eradicators / Aggressors with a Fire Discipline Biologis.
Pre-dataslate, I'd always run Azrael with Hellblasters.
My last game, however, I ran Fire Discipline Lieutenant with my Hellblasters, then I stuck Azrael with a 6-man of Inner Circle Companions, and I'm going to stick with that for the time being.
Lieutenant always gives the Hellblasters fallback and shoot, so you don't have to worry about your doctrine to keep them in the game if a chaff unit charges them.
ICC with Azrael absolutely dominated my opponent's infantry - they wiped a full unit of Meganobz, a full unit of Nobz and a full unit of Boyz without taking a single point of damage.
For my RTT this weekend:
I am running 6 with Azrael
10 x Hellblasters with LT and bolter discipline
Librarian with DWK (swords as I built before maces got buffed)
Two squads of 5 infiltrators to block scout moves
Lion
Gladiator Lancer
3x Inceptors (plasma)
5x Heavy intercessors
5x Intercessors
3x Eradicators
Although I am itching to try out the blob of 6 eradicators and a biologis with bolter discipline! 8 attempts for lethal and sustained hits with full rerolls to everything sounds disgusting
Although I am itching to try out the blob of 6 eradicators and a biologis with bolter discipline! 8 attempts for lethal and sustained hits with full rerolls to everything sounds disgusting
A part of it is DA is able to get a lot of usage from the strong stratagems by way of a very reliable CP engine (Azrael). This is in addition to access to multiple units that just received a pretty decent boost in utility (ICC, DWK).
That's my two cents, anyways.
TLDR, gladius is just versatile. Good stratagems that can be used anywhere and applies to most if not all units. Doctrines not being restricted to a set order to play them allows great flexibility.
The flexibility is nice. It is one of the only detachments that lets us advance and charge (without half the strats only working on mounted units). The stratagems are A+, itâs the only way to increase AP in any detachment which when used correctly has great synergy, also a reactive move can save you from a charge. Fire Discipline and Honor Vehement are good enchantments.
You can make good lists with space marines/DA, but GTF has enough tools to make that list great.
Gladius is a very good detachment in that it's extremely flexible, forgiving, and all the strategems are strong.
Want to pull a unit out of danger from being charged by the enemy? For just one CP I can move them D6 inches at the end of my opponent moving a unit near them, or a full 6 inches if in tactical doctrine.
I'm in either assault or devestator doctrine but I want to make a unit fall back but still shoot or charge for fights first. Again, for 1 CP I can do that.
As someone who got into the gaming side of the hobby with this edition, I've found Gladius to be the best detachment to help you think strategically but also give you a good tool box to respond to almost any situation.
Others have said it here, but I would highlight the Fire Discipline enhancement as one of the best in the game. Having access to critical 5s lethal/sustained with Oath or Eradicator rerolls means the toughest titans in the game arenât safe.
Iâll also highlight the reactive move Strat. There are shinanigans like jumping through a wall or into a transport, but more often It often forces my opponent into an uncomfortable charge roll.
Gladius has great stratagems and Azrael is a CP engine. Combined with a captain for a free strat, you can spam damage and defensive strats all day and round out your armies weaknesses, even if you arenât running the most meta units.
Every single strat is fantastic. The only one that I haven't used is the fight on death, but it's still handy to have.
The detachment rule is also bonkers and offers up a ton of flexibility. Almost any army will do well as a gladius though it does help to have a shooting threat and an assault threat to maximize your detachment rules.
They also have one of the best enhancements in the game. Fire Discipline is wild.
I find Fight on death is really key to certain melee matchups, especially if youâre more elite but donât have the model count. Especially if they get to hit first.
BA infantry spam is a good example. They have 80 marines with elites waiting to charge for their strength buff and fight first. You canât trade 1 for 1 there. Fight in death basically gives you the option to hit with your elites into their Intercessors then fight in death into the clap back.
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I think its the flexibility of GTF. I've tried ICTF last week, i'm not a pro player but i found that i missed a lot of opportunities by not having the abilities of the GTF. The +1 to wound of the ICTF is great but very limited since only availlable to Deathwing.
Yeah, ICTF has powerful buffs but is balanced by the limited units that benefit from them - personally I love that style of detachment, it makes them feel more thematic and fun to try and build around. By attaching a character you can give a unit (like Hellblasters) the Deathwing keyword so they benefit too.
I realised this and for ICTF and Assault Intercessors could really benefit from the +1 wound along with reroll wound rolls built in, but would need a character, so I decided to kitbash an Asmodai solely for this purpose
Does a captain give their units the death wing keyword (Gravis captain with aggressors)
Only the named Dark Angel characters do (terminators get deathwing anyway). Sternguard and Vanguard Vets get deathwing by default. As do the ICC and Bladeguard.
Hey mate, not doubting what you're saying but can you point me to where I can read that rule on characters giving the Deathwing keyword?
When a unit is comprised of models with different keywords (e.g. leaders and the lead) the keywords apply to the entire unit. All Dark Angel characters have the Deathwing keyword. This is a core rule. It also applies in other situations as well, such as with anti-x weapons. Edit: if you're wanting to cite the specific part of the rules, search for the "Keywords" section in the rules commentary
Thanks heaps! This changes a few things for me! đ
I should have specified 'named characters' as all Dark Angels Characters have the Deathwing keyword and they give it to the squad they lead.
Being able to fall back from a melee fight, shoot all your ranged weapons, and then charge right back in is a very powerful ability and really boosts your damage output
It's the main reason I run jump assault intercessors, with a captain if I'm feeling fancy. +1S on the charge, yes please. 11 dice to roll a 4+ for a mortal wounds each, every day. Lance as well? Oh, go on then since it's potentially free with the captain. Then the ability to do all that EVERY TURN? It's even doable for 30pts/0cp if you take adept of the codex on the captain.
As the fella on AOW said, GTF has the best tool box for scoring. You need to score secondaries to win in this season of Warhammer. And ICTF is really only great at scoring primary. So the GTF rounds out that issue.
i still feel like vanguard has the best scoring. but GTF has more damage output in more situations while still being good at scoring. GTF is like the second best choice in everything, which means it's generally just the best marine detachment on an allcomers list. i prefer having a clear win condition, and i have more reps in on vanguard. GTF i've never won on, but i'm bad at 1 turn activation armies (despite me playing iron jaws in AoS, at least it's clear how to play them).
I really vanguard for the up and down and extra tankyness through -1 to hit and cover. The strats are also nice for damage. The downside is it is almost exclusively infantry based where GTF is almost completely universal- works with dreadnoughts and armour as well as the lion and deathwing.
i like infantry which is why i like it, but my lists still have them. but i generally run the redeemer, ballistus and lancer which don't usually need strategem support.
The Gladius supports our unique units much better than the other detachments do. Inner Circle Task Force is decent at letting you punch really hard on Objectives and makes you a bit more durable to get there - Gladius lets you punch really hard wherever the heck you want to and gets you there faster. The Lion, DWK and ICC are all mainly melee-focussed units. The Gladius helps them get there with Advance and Charge; and Fallback and Charge to keep them in punching where we want them. We also have access to Honour the Chapter in Gladius for LANCE (+1 to Wound) and +1AP - which again provides some mega boosts with out units. This is especially the case on the DWK where running them with a Terminator Chaplain is becoming the main block for the 4+ FnP vs MW (including Dev now) to cut-off one of the main routes people used to attack them as it bypasses the 4++ and -1 Damage profile. The Chaplain also gives them +1 to Wound in melee which diminishes the use of Honour the Chapter until you hit a target with -1 to Wound (ie Scarab Occult Terminators) when you can then use Honour the Chapter to completely overcome their defense and end up Wounding on 2's. One of the more subtle benefits of Gladius is the Squad Tactics stratagem, which allows an Infantry unit to move d6" (or 6" if in Tactical Doctrine) which is superb for a more melee-oriented army as you can use it to move away from opponent charges, which can leave then stranded and ready for you to charge (and therefore fight first) in your turn; OR You can move back towards The Lion which could drop you within a 6" range of him, so an opponent charging you becomes viable for a 1CP Heroic Intervention from The Lion - who does have Fight First and will therefore swing before your opponents charging unit. Dark Angels also uniquely benefit from Hellblasters + Azrael + Fire Discipline Lieutenant in Gladius instead of the usual Eradicators / Aggressors with a Fire Discipline Biologis.
Donât need Fire Discipline on the Lt if Azrael is with the squad since he gives them Sustain 1 already.
Yeah but the crits on 5+ in Devastator doctrine are what makes it really tasty!
Pre-dataslate, I'd always run Azrael with Hellblasters. My last game, however, I ran Fire Discipline Lieutenant with my Hellblasters, then I stuck Azrael with a 6-man of Inner Circle Companions, and I'm going to stick with that for the time being. Lieutenant always gives the Hellblasters fallback and shoot, so you don't have to worry about your doctrine to keep them in the game if a chaff unit charges them. ICC with Azrael absolutely dominated my opponent's infantry - they wiped a full unit of Meganobz, a full unit of Nobz and a full unit of Boyz without taking a single point of damage.
For my RTT this weekend: I am running 6 with Azrael 10 x Hellblasters with LT and bolter discipline Librarian with DWK (swords as I built before maces got buffed) Two squads of 5 infiltrators to block scout moves Lion Gladiator Lancer 3x Inceptors (plasma) 5x Heavy intercessors 5x Intercessors 3x Eradicators
Although I am itching to try out the blob of 6 eradicators and a biologis with bolter discipline! 8 attempts for lethal and sustained hits with full rerolls to everything sounds disgusting
Add in a Repulsor and they can even jump back in if your opponent tries to charge them to get rid of them!
Although I am itching to try out the blob of 6 eradicators and a biologis with bolter discipline! 8 attempts for lethal and sustained hits with full rerolls to everything sounds disgusting
That is what I usually run in Gladius. I am going to experiment with Azy and Lt with Hellblasters, and two squad of DWK with swords and Chappyâs
A part of it is DA is able to get a lot of usage from the strong stratagems by way of a very reliable CP engine (Azrael). This is in addition to access to multiple units that just received a pretty decent boost in utility (ICC, DWK). That's my two cents, anyways.
TLDR, gladius is just versatile. Good stratagems that can be used anywhere and applies to most if not all units. Doctrines not being restricted to a set order to play them allows great flexibility.
The flexibility is nice. It is one of the only detachments that lets us advance and charge (without half the strats only working on mounted units). The stratagems are A+, itâs the only way to increase AP in any detachment which when used correctly has great synergy, also a reactive move can save you from a charge. Fire Discipline and Honor Vehement are good enchantments. You can make good lists with space marines/DA, but GTF has enough tools to make that list great.
Gladius is a very good detachment in that it's extremely flexible, forgiving, and all the strategems are strong. Want to pull a unit out of danger from being charged by the enemy? For just one CP I can move them D6 inches at the end of my opponent moving a unit near them, or a full 6 inches if in tactical doctrine. I'm in either assault or devestator doctrine but I want to make a unit fall back but still shoot or charge for fights first. Again, for 1 CP I can do that. As someone who got into the gaming side of the hobby with this edition, I've found Gladius to be the best detachment to help you think strategically but also give you a good tool box to respond to almost any situation.
Others have said it here, but I would highlight the Fire Discipline enhancement as one of the best in the game. Having access to critical 5s lethal/sustained with Oath or Eradicator rerolls means the toughest titans in the game arenât safe. Iâll also highlight the reactive move Strat. There are shinanigans like jumping through a wall or into a transport, but more often It often forces my opponent into an uncomfortable charge roll.
Gladius has great stratagems and Azrael is a CP engine. Combined with a captain for a free strat, you can spam damage and defensive strats all day and round out your armies weaknesses, even if you arenât running the most meta units.
Every single strat is fantastic. The only one that I haven't used is the fight on death, but it's still handy to have. The detachment rule is also bonkers and offers up a ton of flexibility. Almost any army will do well as a gladius though it does help to have a shooting threat and an assault threat to maximize your detachment rules. They also have one of the best enhancements in the game. Fire Discipline is wild.
I find Fight on death is really key to certain melee matchups, especially if youâre more elite but donât have the model count. Especially if they get to hit first. BA infantry spam is a good example. They have 80 marines with elites waiting to charge for their strength buff and fight first. You canât trade 1 for 1 there. Fight in death basically gives you the option to hit with your elites into their Intercessors then fight in death into the clap back.
O for sure it's great. There probably has been situations where I could have used it, but just forgot about it. It's super great.
Flexibility. Gladius can give you, as you need, advance and shoot, advance and charge, fallback and charge, +1 to wound, etc.
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