It's always been their land. Since before the Roman empire was founded.
Someone really should teach you actual, credible history, instead of the bullshit hamas spews and is only believed by utter morons...
No, this is abysmally stupid and shows the right wing fascists in Israel are marching her people towards death.
I support Israel, but that’s not a blank cheque to break international laws. There is No foundation for peace, no room for peace ever, if these continue to exist. We cannot speak of a two state solution if Israel is breaking the foundational 1967 treaty.
Doing this is asking for endless warfare, and more so, will lead to the U.S. and the west abandoning Israel in a generation.
Don’t believe me?
Look at the statistics. The Majority of young western people Do Not support Israel. These are our future voters, who will be becoming and picking our leaders. If Israel behaves badly, a new generation of US lawmakers can absolutely repeal any law, reneg on treaties, and generally withdraw support for Israel. Same with all other western nations.
Israel abandoned is Israel destroyed. The end of the Israeli state and possibly people.
I cannot stress this enough - expanding Israeli occupation of the lands in the Palestinian Territories is against Israel’s long term interests and survival, which is 100% dependent on support from Western Nations, who are facing demographic change.
Israel need to win over the youth in the west and this is a Great way to keep hurting Israel’s reputation with western youth… if they don’t, the writing is already on the wall.
The west was always anti Semitic, it was the French English Germans and Poles that used to persecute Jews throughout history. Nothing to wonder they had a change of heart.
Dude, you keep speaking of a two state solution... after Oct 7 Palestine doesn't deserve a 2state solution anymore imo, nor can israel ever guarantee it's safety with a 2state solution. They need very strong borders and nomansland zones like in between n and s korea, to seperate themselves and keep themselves safe from muslim agression.
Anything short of a two state solution is Apartheid and westerners will Not support Israel.
Either accept the fact of the matter that western support is incumbent upon obeying international law, not repeating the sins of history (South African apartheid), and that without western support Israel will not survive - or - reject this, hack slash and burn all who oppose you, and find yourself alone and isolated amongst a global community that will view you as the pariah terrorist state.
It doesn’t matter what You believe, perception is king, it’s what everyone else thinks that matters far more.
Israel cannot stand alone in the world. And it’s allies will abandon it in rapid order that will accelerate over the next generation if it doesn’t wake itself up from its self righteous slumber and get the fascists like Bibi and Ben Gvir the fuck out of power.
2/3rds of America still supports Israel, and 3/4ths still support its right to exist. It also has a massive amount of support from military families here.
Western support is not incumbent solely on international law, especially not when multinational bodies use that law as a cudgel without verification, just like the supposed mass starvation that was just walked back by the UN itself.
Israel isnt going to stand alone. They suffered the third worst terror attack in history. The military stands with them.
Older people support Israel. Younger people don’t.
Hence there will be a shift in a generation as these young people become the people raising the next generation and picking leadership.
The majority of Americans support Palestinian statehood.
Just to demonstrate how young Americans views are different than older Americans:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/
It doesn’t matter what the stats look like today, if tomorrow they’re going to flip and change.
Voters pick politicians, politicians set policy.
Those anti Israel voters are rising in numbers, it’s why we have had an increase anti Israeli politicians in the U.S.
This trend isn’t going to end, it will get worse unless Israel can consistently demonstrate it holds the moral high ground. Israelis don’t care about a moral story, but Americans and westerners Do. It’s not a winner takes all conflict in the view of the west the way the right wing of Israel tries to portray it.
And remember, the U.S. is a country with a military, not a military with a country. Generals don’t decide where US support goes, politicians and committees do, generals follow orders.
It doesn’t matter if Military families support Israel if the voters pick politicians who order them to stand down, seize weapon transfers, pull back and do nothing more than observe. The military is unable to decide for itself, as it has always been and as it should be in a democracy.
So Israel must win the battle of hearts in mind in the west, or as I’ve said, the writing is on the wall.
It’s a bit of a misrepresentation there, no? Because when polls ask about supporting statehood, sure. I would agree with statehood too. When polls ask specifically about Hamas remaining in power, it’s very very different. That partially includes the younger generation.
When military members work directly with, and train with the IDF, and then become loud voices in their communities it very much does matter, I’m not sure why you think it doesn’t. The military voting bloc is significant and cross-party, and candidates that don’t support the military, at least vocally, don’t usually win elections. It’s very much matters and will continue to matter so long as a significant portion of the US votes alongside national identity, which in the US is often paired with the military.
What exactly are you expecting to occur when Hamas has promised to repeat the same attacks over and over?
Edit: pew only showing a 20% differential and Gallup only showing a 10% differential in American youths opinions pre vs post war, with almost 40% still supporting it in the 18 age group. So while technically correct it’s not exactly a tidal wave of support, and it’s predominantly in one side of the party
It’s a trend that’s increasing in pace.
When you consider like, 80%+ of Americans 40 years ago supported Israel, and now amongst the next generation it’s 40%, there’s been a massive shift.
What will it look like in 40 years?
And you’re right, historically the military members were a respected and powerful voting bloc. Except, now they’re not quite as respected, as the MAGA people think they’re morons and the far left think they’re bootlickers. And those extremes are growing in number while the moderate centre is squeezed and aged out.
Here the youth, once again, are showing a lot less love with a 53-47 split (so close). But the older folks it was a 70-30 split. The trend is moving against the military.
You have to understand that I’m a fierce supporter of Israel. But I don’t write blank cheques, and I need to know whoever I support today will be someone I can support tomorrow.
I am, regularly, engaging with university and college students on this topic and am fighting to help protray Israel as a just, moral society of good people with like minded values to the west.
But if Israel decides it’s going to break international law or become exactly what its critics accuse it of being, people like me have no credibility to defend it honestly, with clear conscious of ethical and moral standard.
The fact of the matter is Israel, especially under Bibi, has not worked towards a sustainable peace and a two state solution. Bibi has actively worked against it, even funding Hamas to keep the two Palestinian Territories divided. This doesn’t mean others haven’t earnestly tried because they have. But Israel’s right has been on the ascendancy, because of a lack of progress, but they also destroy the progress made… so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that leads to bloodshed.
He is one of the worst leaders, in terms of Israeli security, Israel had ever had. Israel is less safe now than ever before, politically it’s more isolated, militarily it’s being stretched if it didn’t have US weapons support but manpower remains an issue, it faces the threats of boycotts in trade…
Reversing this trend will take a Lot of work to wins hearts and minds. Becoming the state Israel’s enemies accuse it of being, which it is not yet, would be the end of western support down the line.
So why exactly do you think the fringes are getting larger? Studies are showing the opposite is actually true. Center, or nonaligned, is growing at nearly double the rate. Comparatively to population growth the fringes are still growing but not as fast as the people that are tired of them.
And sure. In the year since this started the trend is downward, but can you show me a single war we ourselves have been in where the youth support didn’t drop, especially in the first year? Again I’m not exactly contesting that the youth are less supportive of Israel but both major poll groups plainly show that nearly 50% of them continue to. Politicians that have vocally parroted unsubstantiated claims like the famine have begun to lose their races. If it’s a loss in support it’s much less than some medias seem intent on portraying.
If you look at the 80s and 90s you’ll find similar outcries by youth against the same conflict but it didn’t account for much when those people grew up. People have short memories even when we pretend we don’t.
I agree with a lot of your points. There does need to be accountability and it does look like war will be continued on against hezbollah.
I agree, hence why I think israel should displace these Palestinians to the neighbouring Islamic countries as soon as possible. If Trump becomes president again there is no time to lose and these few million already displaced from their homes should find refugee in neighbouring countries , forced by Israël and US pressure.
Israel has to strengthen its borders, it's wall and iron dome and has to up it's intelligence spending to espionage on its domestic terrorist population.
It's the only way they can be safe, these Palestinians have been groomed by their imams, parents and whoever to HATE the jews, there is no way there will ever be safe.
And after Oct 7th I'm sure most Jews also hate tue guts of most Palestinians.
The easiest and best solution is to separate both parties. When we evaluate historically who has the most right to live there, who is the superior democracy and society, then I'm all pro the Israelis being the Victor of this conflict.
That’s a “winner takes all” perspective.
It would turn me diametrically opposed to Israel if they displaced millions of people. Create Another wave of refugees and displaced people which negative impacts their neighbors and does Nothing to actually improve Israel’s position.
What they going to do next, depopulate Lebanon? The Sinai? Just keep pushing and taking more and more because of “Muslim threats”?
It’s a great villain arc.
If Israel cannot solve this problem, or worse takes your account, it’s not going to have support. If you went through my history, you’ll see I’m a warrior for the cause of Israeli statehood and long term peace.
But not at the expense of Palestinians who are victims of circumstance, held hostage by their Jihadi overlords, brainwashed because that’s the only education they’re allowed, who are too ignorant to know that their enemies are Hamas and not the Israelis who want peace.
That will just unfold into a massive war. Egypt will turn on Israel. Jordan will turn. Turkey will get involved one way or another. Iran will direct its proxies and likely provide more direct support.
And the U.S. will lose all credibility if they come to Israel’s aid in that, they’ll lose the respect of almost every other western government and a majority of people will turn their back.
If Israel’s plan to survive is to depopulate the Palestinian people, then Israel doesn’t deserve to exist. And again, read my entire comment history, this is the first time I’ve ever uttered those words.
Genocide isn’t always the butchering of people - displacement is a form of genocide - because I reference the displacement of Jews across Muslim nations after the founding of Israel as Genocide. This wouldn’t be different, and I’m a consistent man above all things - if the term applies, it applies.
In a perfect world I love your take and stance. The only thing I disagree with is you saying Egypt, jordan, turkey, Iran WILL turn. My friend, they already have turned, isn't it obvious how these nations have 1 thing in common ? Blind hatred against every Jew, undeniable support for Hamas, all united by the religion of peace, Islam.
Look how they broadcast news on Al Jazeera, how Arab countries don't want to condemn the Oct 7 attacks... it's insane really and they are all brainwashing their citizens on a large scale and infusing more hatred towards Jews.
Do you think this mentality will ever shift in the Arab world ? I honestly don't think so, even Osama bin Laden's bestselling audiotapes in Afghanistan (Afghanistan has nothing to do with Israel) was spewing hatred and violence against Jews.
It's embedded into their religion, check Google how many Koran references there are that put Jews in a negative light.
Propaganda is a seriously strong thing, in a perfect world I wish we could live peacefully together, but until the Arab world ditches this Jew hatred and brainwashing I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
The only way for Israel then to be safe is to isolate itself as much as possible from these people. Construct walls, identity checks, espionage,...
There are tons of examples in the West now since the war started (usa and eu) were far far away Muslims like Tunisians (nothing to do with the conflict) are harassing Jews. It's embedded in their religion sadly. And the sad fact is there is no sign of this extremism slowing down, it's only accelerating.
You are right that support is dwindling from the West, and hatred is growing. Let's face reality as well, W Europe's muslim population is exploding. How much longer can Jews live peacefully here without being harassed on a daily basis ? Where there is no constant terror alert, police security needed at their schools etc. Imo, they deserve a safe haven and safe place for them to live. Historically it makes sense for that to be Israel. Muslims on the other hand have nearly infinite countries were their laws and cultures apply, they can choose whereever they want to live
Oh shut up. The dude is 100% on the money!
What is the purpose of these settlements? It’s not even your land.
PS. land theft and indiscriminate killing of Palestinians has been occurring since 1940s. So no, it didn’t start on Oct 7.
Taking land from a power that has declared an offensive war with the intent of fully removing your state from existence, less than 24 hours after it was declared a state, is not land theft.
When you declare an offensive war and lose, you lose land. That has happened in nearly every war in history
Why in the first place are Jews removing Palestinians from their native land? The very same people who were living on that land since the Canaanite era and are actually the real Jews of the land.
Free Palestine from idiots like you, who don’t know squat about history.
That same land was also Jewish. It’s also their land. Don’t want to lose land? Don’t declare offensive war and lose
Palestine under Hamas will never be free. Nothing you say or do will ever make it so. The US military supports Israel
So how does that give jewish people today the right to murder Palestinians and steal their land?
Make it make sense. Where is the logic?
Did god give you that right? You “chosen people” are something else. More like the chosen people to show everyone else how wrongly misguided you are.
Hypocrites.
I'm neutral, not a jew nor a muslim/Palestine.
I look from my neutral eye and look what society I redeem superior.
To me israel is superior in every way : socially, democratic, economically, technology, civil rights,.... hence I support the superior society to flourish and the lesser (dare I say rotten?) Society to disintegrate.
You should go and learn your history before spewing garbage like that.
Israel is prosperous like that because of the funding it’s received and backing from the US. US politicians serve Israel more than their own country which results in over $15-20Billion per year in funding. Not to mention EVERY other western countries funding of Israel.
Palestine has been trying to get officially recognized as its own country for years…. But guess who are the only 2 countries that keep voting no?
Us and Israel.
And before you say Palestine receives funding…. They do for sure, however Israel controls the borders, imports and exports and doesn’t allow construction without approving of it first.
Isn't it ? Tell me one religion or society or even country that uses the same brutal tactics and torture as Muslims use against their enemies.
It's another level of brutality, far more than normal war, our western leaders should never accept anything like that and should send a strong signal.
What do you mean they “don’t deserve a Two-State Solution”? Statehood is their right, and it can’t be taken away. Israel is violates International Law, but they still deserve statehood.
Also, what has Israel done in the past 20 years to come to a peaceful resolution? Ever since Netanyahu and Likud got into power, the entire peace process has completely stalled. What should Palestinians do to become a state? The PLO gave up terrorism and worked with Israel in the 90s, with the Oslo Peace Process (where Palestine even recognised Israel), and got nothing out of it, Palestinians protested peacefully in the 2018–2019 Gaza Border Protest (Great March of Return), and got nothing. So tell me, what should Palestinians do?
Agree.
This will either be demographic suicide as the Arabs outvote the Jewish people, or they permanently rule the West Bank with apartheid, not allowing the Arabs to vote.
And if they run an actual apartheid state, Iran wins the morality battle and the west loses any credible argument to defend Israel.
The last thing I want is Iran to win Any victory, let alone a Moral one.
The Arabs are already running an apartheid state in Gaza and the west bank. In Israel, as an ex-south African, Israel is the worst apartheid ever. My dentist is an Arab, there are Arab ministers in government, there was an Arab on the supreme high court, there are minimum requirements for how many Arabs MUST be accepted into tertiary institutions and government positions, religious freedom, etc. In Israel. Meanwhile there are fewer and fewer Christians in Bethlehem And there were zero Jews allowed to work or live in PA controlled territories even prior to the war. You know, aside from the whole pay-to-slay policy thing. People also need to understand what disputed territory means and bear in mind that the land was won in attempted genocidal land-grab wars that the Arabs started. Ergo, it was won on their terms.
And I’m of Islamic background and lived both in Gaza and Israel.
I can say I agree. However, I know that if Israel does the same, they give Iran the win.
I know the oppression of Hamas, I’ve lived it. Israel should Not behave that way ever, no matter What those jihadi lunatics do.
Great! So then tell me:
* are you forbidden from travelling on the same transport as Jews, Sorry, I mean "Israelis"
* are you allowed to study in school alongside Jews
* when you are six, are you forced to only go to Arab clinics where there are poor quality doctors, or do you make an appointment alongside any other Israeli to see whoever you can who may or may not be an Arab in a regular clinic or hospital?
* When hospitalized, are the chances that you will be sharing a room with a Jew?
* will you be arrested for being outside of PA areas after your 22:00 curfew?
Exactly. So no apartheid. As for what Israel's doing in Gaza, maybe Hamas and friends shouldn't have started a war they couldn't win for the umpteenth time. They're really lucky that Israel isn't like most other countries in the world because who else warns their enemies before they strike them? If it had been Mexico and the US, Mexico would have been flattened and the population decimated by October 8th
Agree. Enough trying to appease the extremists and to show them strength and consequences instead.
If a group isn't punished for their actions, they won't stop doing said actions.
No it doesn't. Things got worse after the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and setup the Palestinian Authority. Had neither of these things happened then today things wouldn't be as bad and be the same as they were in the mid 80's
Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, without any coordination with the Palestinian Authority. Obviously there is going to be instability, as there is a power vacuum that Hamas managed to fill. Also, the reason why the mid 80s to 90s were good, was because the PLO renounced terrorism, and decided to negotiate with Israel. What did they get from it. That is why Palestinians are starting to support terrorism, because when they did try to do things peacefully, they got nothing. That’s not to justify terrorism, because it is never justified, but to show you that every time Israel delegitimise the moderate PA, they are not bolstering their cause, but the cause of extremist like Hamas.
How? This is bad for Israel. Israel was founded as a Jewish and Democratic State. If they expand into the West Bank, and refuse to give Palestinian citizenship, they would no longer be democratic, and if they give Palestinians citizenship, they would no longer be Jewish. A two-state solution is the only reasonable solution.
Peace? What peace?
Nobody wants peace, definitely not the Palestinians and now neither do the Israelis.
Genocide? What genocide? You must mean the genocide planned by Hamas.
If the Palestinians don't like Area C being annexed, they can accept a peace deal, counteroffer, or offer one of their own.
Their current strategy - waiting for big foreign powers to commit genocide against the Jews so they can move in - didn't work in 1948 and won't work now.
There have been deals that Hamas hasn’t accepted—-no doubt. But some deal like the most recent deal was rejected by Netanyahu. Because he wants this war. As for the second part of your statement I’m not sure what you meant.
Really that’s the deal. The deal I’m talking about is the deal American and possibly other western powers proposed but said Israel came up with it because they always have to make Israel look good but then Israel said no to it. If the US was pushing for this last deal which they were are you saying they were okay with all of that. I doubt it. So that wasn’t the proposal. Let me put this out there. I don’t support Hamas in any way they are a terror group. But like Al qaeda they were created by the very people they want to annihilate. Maybe Bibi shouldn’t have created them. But I guess Bibi gets a pass. In fact he gets rewarded for it by being elected. So to blame all Gazans for electing Hamas is no different than what Jewish Israelis have done. They elected this problem.
I’m sure we can go back and forth on this. Maybe we could agree on certain things. Explain—why if the West Bank is not controlled by Hamas—-why are Palestinians dying there. 500 hundred have been killed and scores wounded since October 7th. I’m sure you have seen the numbers. Western media including Israeli media have certainly been posting that for the world to see. Why are they dying? Oh because Jewish Israelis are there. Whether they are settlers or IDF. Those people are not supposed to be there. Therefore none of those Palestinians would be dead. These are causes for the violence that only Palestinians get blamed for. A farmer being harassed on his farm in the West Bank by settlers under the protection of the IDF and ultimately killed is a cause for what’s going on. The causes of violence need to stop. But if that involves Jewish Israelis it’ll never happen.
What land grab? Israel took control from Jordan after a defensive war. 2008 Israel like Gaza offered Judea and Samaria for peace and the PA said no.
What land grab? Please explain.
Jordan occupiers but no one in the Arab world cared. Also yes you can claim land in defensive war. Do you think their shouldn't be consequences to starting war?
Lastly it has never been Palestinian land. The name alone which they call it the West bank(original and real name Judea and Samaria) shows that. However, why did they say no 2008?
First, no, people did care about Jordan annexation. Initially, Jordan and Egypt were supposed to hold the Palestinian Territories in a trust, until the “Palestinians Question” is resolved. When Jordan tried to annex the West Bank, the Arab League tried to kick Jordan out, with Egypt, Saudi Arabia Syria and Lebanon voting to expel Jordan from the Arab League. They were only save from dissenting votes from Yemen, and Iraq. Iraq was the only Arab country to recognise Jordan annexation, probably because both monarchs were from the same family. So, no people did care when Jordan was the occupier.
Second, I don’t know where this myth comes from, but under international law, you CAN NOT claim land, even in a defensive war, without the permission of the other country. Territorial integrity is a fundamental principle in international law. There are consequences, like sanctions, embargo, diplomatic isolation etc. but things like reparations, territorial changes etc. is only done with both parties agreement. National Sovereignty is important. In any case, under United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, it calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories, so they have no right to claim any Palestinian (or Syrian) territory.
Third, Palestinians live there, so it is Palestinian lands. With the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, Palestine was given a state along side Israel. After the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Israel was admitted into the UN with 1949 Armistice Border (Green Line), so that became their international borders, making anything beyond that occupied territories. So yes, it is Palestinian land.
Finally, Israel’s proposal has either been unacceptable to Palestinians, or in bad faith. Many of the proposals do not address Palestinian Right of Return, or the settlements. Some proposals have Israel annexing parts of the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, which most Palestinians feel is unacceptable. Yes, Palestinians have historically had a policy of all or nothing, which has been detrimental to the Palestinian Cause, and they haven’t been so innocent, but Israel isn’t so innocent either.
https://www.google.com/search?q=international+law+claiming+land+in+defensive+war&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=d96aa4fd0b1ebae6&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIK4XR_2glA-CVPYXlmsKahoA5E9-w%3A1720150210628&ei=wmiHZtL3JeyOuvQP9-q28AY&oq=international+law+claiming+land+in+defensive+war&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIjBpbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIGxhdyBjbGFpbWluZyBsYW5kIGluIGRlZmVuc2l2ZSB3YXIyBBAjGCcyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESIseUKkXWKkXcAB4ApABAJgBygWgAcoFqgEDNi0xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAICoALtBcICBBAAGEeYAwDiAwUSATEgQIgGAZAGCJIHBTEuNS0xoAe8BQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
Zuheir Mohsen view, not my opinion but the PLO in 1977
The Palestinian people do not exist. There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are part of one people, the Arab nation. Lo and behold, I have relatives with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are one people. It is only for political reasons that we carefully endorse our Palestinian identity. Indeed, it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians in the face of Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new means to continue the struggle against Israel and for Arab unity.
Like I said, UN Security Council Resolution 242, calls for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories, so even if Israel was in a defensive war, security council resolution, which are legally binding, says Israel cannot annex any territory. Also, while it is debated whether you can claim territory in a defensive war, given the fact that no country has ever done this (Iran never claimed territory after Iraq attack them, Timor-Leste never claimed Indonesian after being occupied), it is why I disagree with the notion that you can claim territory in a defensive war.
Palestinian have their own national identity. That doesn’t mean that they’re not Arabs. They are not mutually exclusive. Palestinians are Arab, but not all Arabs are Palestinian. You have a shared culture and history, but also a distinct identity. It is why you guys have different dialects. That doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians have the right to statehood.
So now defensive war is debatable to claim land.
Shared heritage from the Arabian Peninsula
If they want state hood accept the land offered an build a state yet they always chose war and attacks instead.
No, I said I disagree with the claim that you can claim land in defensive war. I was just acknowledging that there are people who believe otherwise. In any case, you haven’t said anything about the UN Security Council Resolution that calls on Israel to withdraw from occupied lands. That resolution is legally binding.
Yes, they share cultural heritage from the Arabian Peninsula, but ancestral, Palestinians are Levantine with limited admixture from the Arabian Peninsula (I think like 10% to 20%, though I could be wrong about the exact percentage).
Palestine did negotiate with Israel from the late 80s to early 2000s, during the Oslo Process. What did they get out of it? They are still occupied. Also, don’t know your stance on the current Israeli government, but it is hypocritical for Netanyahu and Likud to complain about Palestinians not accepting a peace deal, when they opposed the Oslo Peace Process and actively sabotaged it.
The UN also comment tbe following the U.N. Charter does not make all war illegal. Indeed, it expressly reaffirms the legality of a defensive war. Since defensive war is not illegal, it follows that the defender's territorial gains from such a war would not be illegal.
Oh yeah they should just sit around and wait for the terrorists to claim it, brilliant idea! Hamas is Palestine, Hamas are Palestinians, in every area.
Look, there are two factions in the Palestinian Liberation Movement, the the moderate PLO, who are willing to work with Israel to establish their own country in the 67 borders, and Hamas, who are a bunch of radical Islamist extremist who do not recognise Israel’s right to exist. Every time Israel screws over the PLO, it increases support for Hamas, and their cause, thus increasing terrorism. It is in Israel’s best interest to accept a 2 State Solution.
Lol....are you saying Hamas is claiming west bank right now? IDF there overran?
Level of bullshyt is insane haha...
I guess it's what Israel is employing to justify their final solution
Hamas is claiming all of Israel, including the West Bank and they desire to create an Islamic State. They literally said this themselves in their charter that this is their goal and have repeated it openly. It takes two seconds to google that.
You are laughing but the only funny thing here is your astounding stupidity.
What land grab? Israel took control from Jordan after a defensive war. 2008 Israel like Gaza offered Judea and Samaria for peace and the PA said no.
What land grab? Please explain.
FYI the PA has a pay-for-slay law and paid terrorists and family for the Oct 7 attack
Palestine lost their war of aggression and Israel won the land in a defensive war. There is no violation of international law. Only Palestine violated it.
You can't legally win land, even in a defensive war. You can't annex territories, without permission from the other country. Israel occupation is a violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, which is legally binding, unlike UN General Assembly Resolutions. It doesn't matter what happened, Palestine still has the right to exist. It is hypocritical to say Israel has the right to exist, while denying Palestine the same right.
Israel didn’t need permission from the losing side of the war. If Palestinians never started wars, maybe people would be on their side. However they non stop attack Israel including innocents civilians in terror attacks. Palestine doesn’t deserve to exist, yet Israel is kind enough to give them land anyway.
This isn’t a Paradox Game. You can’t claim land, even in a defensive war. Palestine’s right to exist doesn’t go away just because they lost a war. Under international law, Israel border is the 1967 borders, and anything beyond that is occupied territories. Israel is giving some of there land back that Palestine is entitled to under international law, isn’t some great thing.
Israel joined the UN with the 1949 Armistice Border. With the Six Day War, they managed to occupy the Palestinian Territories (including East Jerusalem), the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel gave the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt, but annexed and settled East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, which is a violation of International Law. How this clarifies what I said.
So they annexed the land. And then the international recognized border became the 1967 border. How about they just annex the land again and get a new border?
Because that is not how international law works. Russia can’t annex Crimea, neither can Israel annex the Golan Heights or East Jerusalem. The entire point of the UN is to make sure there isn’t any changing of borders, and that territorial integrity is paramount.
Palestine lost their right to territorial integrity when they invaded Israel, slaughtered, raped, mutilated, and took hostage innocent women and children.
How can they "seize" land that was always theirs?
It's not their land, unless you want to imply that Israel is an apartheid state, surely you wouldn't accuse them of such a thing?
It's always been their land. Since before the Roman empire was founded. Someone really should teach you actual, credible history, instead of the bullshit hamas spews and is only believed by utter morons...
Good.
No, this is abysmally stupid and shows the right wing fascists in Israel are marching her people towards death. I support Israel, but that’s not a blank cheque to break international laws. There is No foundation for peace, no room for peace ever, if these continue to exist. We cannot speak of a two state solution if Israel is breaking the foundational 1967 treaty. Doing this is asking for endless warfare, and more so, will lead to the U.S. and the west abandoning Israel in a generation. Don’t believe me? Look at the statistics. The Majority of young western people Do Not support Israel. These are our future voters, who will be becoming and picking our leaders. If Israel behaves badly, a new generation of US lawmakers can absolutely repeal any law, reneg on treaties, and generally withdraw support for Israel. Same with all other western nations. Israel abandoned is Israel destroyed. The end of the Israeli state and possibly people. I cannot stress this enough - expanding Israeli occupation of the lands in the Palestinian Territories is against Israel’s long term interests and survival, which is 100% dependent on support from Western Nations, who are facing demographic change. Israel need to win over the youth in the west and this is a Great way to keep hurting Israel’s reputation with western youth… if they don’t, the writing is already on the wall.
Agreed!!!
The west was always anti Semitic, it was the French English Germans and Poles that used to persecute Jews throughout history. Nothing to wonder they had a change of heart.
Dude, you keep speaking of a two state solution... after Oct 7 Palestine doesn't deserve a 2state solution anymore imo, nor can israel ever guarantee it's safety with a 2state solution. They need very strong borders and nomansland zones like in between n and s korea, to seperate themselves and keep themselves safe from muslim agression.
Anything short of a two state solution is Apartheid and westerners will Not support Israel. Either accept the fact of the matter that western support is incumbent upon obeying international law, not repeating the sins of history (South African apartheid), and that without western support Israel will not survive - or - reject this, hack slash and burn all who oppose you, and find yourself alone and isolated amongst a global community that will view you as the pariah terrorist state. It doesn’t matter what You believe, perception is king, it’s what everyone else thinks that matters far more. Israel cannot stand alone in the world. And it’s allies will abandon it in rapid order that will accelerate over the next generation if it doesn’t wake itself up from its self righteous slumber and get the fascists like Bibi and Ben Gvir the fuck out of power.
2/3rds of America still supports Israel, and 3/4ths still support its right to exist. It also has a massive amount of support from military families here. Western support is not incumbent solely on international law, especially not when multinational bodies use that law as a cudgel without verification, just like the supposed mass starvation that was just walked back by the UN itself. Israel isnt going to stand alone. They suffered the third worst terror attack in history. The military stands with them.
Older people support Israel. Younger people don’t. Hence there will be a shift in a generation as these young people become the people raising the next generation and picking leadership. The majority of Americans support Palestinian statehood. Just to demonstrate how young Americans views are different than older Americans: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/ It doesn’t matter what the stats look like today, if tomorrow they’re going to flip and change. Voters pick politicians, politicians set policy. Those anti Israel voters are rising in numbers, it’s why we have had an increase anti Israeli politicians in the U.S. This trend isn’t going to end, it will get worse unless Israel can consistently demonstrate it holds the moral high ground. Israelis don’t care about a moral story, but Americans and westerners Do. It’s not a winner takes all conflict in the view of the west the way the right wing of Israel tries to portray it. And remember, the U.S. is a country with a military, not a military with a country. Generals don’t decide where US support goes, politicians and committees do, generals follow orders. It doesn’t matter if Military families support Israel if the voters pick politicians who order them to stand down, seize weapon transfers, pull back and do nothing more than observe. The military is unable to decide for itself, as it has always been and as it should be in a democracy. So Israel must win the battle of hearts in mind in the west, or as I’ve said, the writing is on the wall.
It’s a bit of a misrepresentation there, no? Because when polls ask about supporting statehood, sure. I would agree with statehood too. When polls ask specifically about Hamas remaining in power, it’s very very different. That partially includes the younger generation. When military members work directly with, and train with the IDF, and then become loud voices in their communities it very much does matter, I’m not sure why you think it doesn’t. The military voting bloc is significant and cross-party, and candidates that don’t support the military, at least vocally, don’t usually win elections. It’s very much matters and will continue to matter so long as a significant portion of the US votes alongside national identity, which in the US is often paired with the military. What exactly are you expecting to occur when Hamas has promised to repeat the same attacks over and over? Edit: pew only showing a 20% differential and Gallup only showing a 10% differential in American youths opinions pre vs post war, with almost 40% still supporting it in the 18 age group. So while technically correct it’s not exactly a tidal wave of support, and it’s predominantly in one side of the party
It’s a trend that’s increasing in pace. When you consider like, 80%+ of Americans 40 years ago supported Israel, and now amongst the next generation it’s 40%, there’s been a massive shift. What will it look like in 40 years? And you’re right, historically the military members were a respected and powerful voting bloc. Except, now they’re not quite as respected, as the MAGA people think they’re morons and the far left think they’re bootlickers. And those extremes are growing in number while the moderate centre is squeezed and aged out. Here the youth, once again, are showing a lot less love with a 53-47 split (so close). But the older folks it was a 70-30 split. The trend is moving against the military. You have to understand that I’m a fierce supporter of Israel. But I don’t write blank cheques, and I need to know whoever I support today will be someone I can support tomorrow. I am, regularly, engaging with university and college students on this topic and am fighting to help protray Israel as a just, moral society of good people with like minded values to the west. But if Israel decides it’s going to break international law or become exactly what its critics accuse it of being, people like me have no credibility to defend it honestly, with clear conscious of ethical and moral standard. The fact of the matter is Israel, especially under Bibi, has not worked towards a sustainable peace and a two state solution. Bibi has actively worked against it, even funding Hamas to keep the two Palestinian Territories divided. This doesn’t mean others haven’t earnestly tried because they have. But Israel’s right has been on the ascendancy, because of a lack of progress, but they also destroy the progress made… so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that leads to bloodshed. He is one of the worst leaders, in terms of Israeli security, Israel had ever had. Israel is less safe now than ever before, politically it’s more isolated, militarily it’s being stretched if it didn’t have US weapons support but manpower remains an issue, it faces the threats of boycotts in trade… Reversing this trend will take a Lot of work to wins hearts and minds. Becoming the state Israel’s enemies accuse it of being, which it is not yet, would be the end of western support down the line.
So why exactly do you think the fringes are getting larger? Studies are showing the opposite is actually true. Center, or nonaligned, is growing at nearly double the rate. Comparatively to population growth the fringes are still growing but not as fast as the people that are tired of them. And sure. In the year since this started the trend is downward, but can you show me a single war we ourselves have been in where the youth support didn’t drop, especially in the first year? Again I’m not exactly contesting that the youth are less supportive of Israel but both major poll groups plainly show that nearly 50% of them continue to. Politicians that have vocally parroted unsubstantiated claims like the famine have begun to lose their races. If it’s a loss in support it’s much less than some medias seem intent on portraying. If you look at the 80s and 90s you’ll find similar outcries by youth against the same conflict but it didn’t account for much when those people grew up. People have short memories even when we pretend we don’t. I agree with a lot of your points. There does need to be accountability and it does look like war will be continued on against hezbollah.
I agree, hence why I think israel should displace these Palestinians to the neighbouring Islamic countries as soon as possible. If Trump becomes president again there is no time to lose and these few million already displaced from their homes should find refugee in neighbouring countries , forced by Israël and US pressure. Israel has to strengthen its borders, it's wall and iron dome and has to up it's intelligence spending to espionage on its domestic terrorist population. It's the only way they can be safe, these Palestinians have been groomed by their imams, parents and whoever to HATE the jews, there is no way there will ever be safe. And after Oct 7th I'm sure most Jews also hate tue guts of most Palestinians. The easiest and best solution is to separate both parties. When we evaluate historically who has the most right to live there, who is the superior democracy and society, then I'm all pro the Israelis being the Victor of this conflict.
That’s a “winner takes all” perspective. It would turn me diametrically opposed to Israel if they displaced millions of people. Create Another wave of refugees and displaced people which negative impacts their neighbors and does Nothing to actually improve Israel’s position. What they going to do next, depopulate Lebanon? The Sinai? Just keep pushing and taking more and more because of “Muslim threats”? It’s a great villain arc. If Israel cannot solve this problem, or worse takes your account, it’s not going to have support. If you went through my history, you’ll see I’m a warrior for the cause of Israeli statehood and long term peace. But not at the expense of Palestinians who are victims of circumstance, held hostage by their Jihadi overlords, brainwashed because that’s the only education they’re allowed, who are too ignorant to know that their enemies are Hamas and not the Israelis who want peace. That will just unfold into a massive war. Egypt will turn on Israel. Jordan will turn. Turkey will get involved one way or another. Iran will direct its proxies and likely provide more direct support. And the U.S. will lose all credibility if they come to Israel’s aid in that, they’ll lose the respect of almost every other western government and a majority of people will turn their back. If Israel’s plan to survive is to depopulate the Palestinian people, then Israel doesn’t deserve to exist. And again, read my entire comment history, this is the first time I’ve ever uttered those words. Genocide isn’t always the butchering of people - displacement is a form of genocide - because I reference the displacement of Jews across Muslim nations after the founding of Israel as Genocide. This wouldn’t be different, and I’m a consistent man above all things - if the term applies, it applies.
In a perfect world I love your take and stance. The only thing I disagree with is you saying Egypt, jordan, turkey, Iran WILL turn. My friend, they already have turned, isn't it obvious how these nations have 1 thing in common ? Blind hatred against every Jew, undeniable support for Hamas, all united by the religion of peace, Islam. Look how they broadcast news on Al Jazeera, how Arab countries don't want to condemn the Oct 7 attacks... it's insane really and they are all brainwashing their citizens on a large scale and infusing more hatred towards Jews. Do you think this mentality will ever shift in the Arab world ? I honestly don't think so, even Osama bin Laden's bestselling audiotapes in Afghanistan (Afghanistan has nothing to do with Israel) was spewing hatred and violence against Jews. It's embedded into their religion, check Google how many Koran references there are that put Jews in a negative light. Propaganda is a seriously strong thing, in a perfect world I wish we could live peacefully together, but until the Arab world ditches this Jew hatred and brainwashing I see no light at the end of the tunnel. The only way for Israel then to be safe is to isolate itself as much as possible from these people. Construct walls, identity checks, espionage,... There are tons of examples in the West now since the war started (usa and eu) were far far away Muslims like Tunisians (nothing to do with the conflict) are harassing Jews. It's embedded in their religion sadly. And the sad fact is there is no sign of this extremism slowing down, it's only accelerating. You are right that support is dwindling from the West, and hatred is growing. Let's face reality as well, W Europe's muslim population is exploding. How much longer can Jews live peacefully here without being harassed on a daily basis ? Where there is no constant terror alert, police security needed at their schools etc. Imo, they deserve a safe haven and safe place for them to live. Historically it makes sense for that to be Israel. Muslims on the other hand have nearly infinite countries were their laws and cultures apply, they can choose whereever they want to live
Oh shut up. The dude is 100% on the money! What is the purpose of these settlements? It’s not even your land. PS. land theft and indiscriminate killing of Palestinians has been occurring since 1940s. So no, it didn’t start on Oct 7.
Taking land from a power that has declared an offensive war with the intent of fully removing your state from existence, less than 24 hours after it was declared a state, is not land theft. When you declare an offensive war and lose, you lose land. That has happened in nearly every war in history
Why in the first place are Jews removing Palestinians from their native land? The very same people who were living on that land since the Canaanite era and are actually the real Jews of the land. Free Palestine from idiots like you, who don’t know squat about history.
That same land was also Jewish. It’s also their land. Don’t want to lose land? Don’t declare offensive war and lose Palestine under Hamas will never be free. Nothing you say or do will ever make it so. The US military supports Israel
So how does that give jewish people today the right to murder Palestinians and steal their land? Make it make sense. Where is the logic? Did god give you that right? You “chosen people” are something else. More like the chosen people to show everyone else how wrongly misguided you are. Hypocrites.
I'm neutral, not a jew nor a muslim/Palestine. I look from my neutral eye and look what society I redeem superior. To me israel is superior in every way : socially, democratic, economically, technology, civil rights,.... hence I support the superior society to flourish and the lesser (dare I say rotten?) Society to disintegrate.
You should go and learn your history before spewing garbage like that. Israel is prosperous like that because of the funding it’s received and backing from the US. US politicians serve Israel more than their own country which results in over $15-20Billion per year in funding. Not to mention EVERY other western countries funding of Israel. Palestine has been trying to get officially recognized as its own country for years…. But guess who are the only 2 countries that keep voting no? Us and Israel. And before you say Palestine receives funding…. They do for sure, however Israel controls the borders, imports and exports and doesn’t allow construction without approving of it first.
Israel is literally illegally stealing land and displacing Palestinians, but sure, it's Muslim aggression that's the problem
Isn't it ? Tell me one religion or society or even country that uses the same brutal tactics and torture as Muslims use against their enemies. It's another level of brutality, far more than normal war, our western leaders should never accept anything like that and should send a strong signal.
What do you mean they “don’t deserve a Two-State Solution”? Statehood is their right, and it can’t be taken away. Israel is violates International Law, but they still deserve statehood. Also, what has Israel done in the past 20 years to come to a peaceful resolution? Ever since Netanyahu and Likud got into power, the entire peace process has completely stalled. What should Palestinians do to become a state? The PLO gave up terrorism and worked with Israel in the 90s, with the Oslo Peace Process (where Palestine even recognised Israel), and got nothing out of it, Palestinians protested peacefully in the 2018–2019 Gaza Border Protest (Great March of Return), and got nothing. So tell me, what should Palestinians do?
Gaza has no chance of winning if Israel takes the cuffs off
Agree. This will either be demographic suicide as the Arabs outvote the Jewish people, or they permanently rule the West Bank with apartheid, not allowing the Arabs to vote.
And if they run an actual apartheid state, Iran wins the morality battle and the west loses any credible argument to defend Israel. The last thing I want is Iran to win Any victory, let alone a Moral one.
The Arabs are already running an apartheid state in Gaza and the west bank. In Israel, as an ex-south African, Israel is the worst apartheid ever. My dentist is an Arab, there are Arab ministers in government, there was an Arab on the supreme high court, there are minimum requirements for how many Arabs MUST be accepted into tertiary institutions and government positions, religious freedom, etc. In Israel. Meanwhile there are fewer and fewer Christians in Bethlehem And there were zero Jews allowed to work or live in PA controlled territories even prior to the war. You know, aside from the whole pay-to-slay policy thing. People also need to understand what disputed territory means and bear in mind that the land was won in attempted genocidal land-grab wars that the Arabs started. Ergo, it was won on their terms.
And I’m of Islamic background and lived both in Gaza and Israel. I can say I agree. However, I know that if Israel does the same, they give Iran the win. I know the oppression of Hamas, I’ve lived it. Israel should Not behave that way ever, no matter What those jihadi lunatics do.
How did you get out of Gaza? Curious to hear your story.
Great! So then tell me: * are you forbidden from travelling on the same transport as Jews, Sorry, I mean "Israelis" * are you allowed to study in school alongside Jews * when you are six, are you forced to only go to Arab clinics where there are poor quality doctors, or do you make an appointment alongside any other Israeli to see whoever you can who may or may not be an Arab in a regular clinic or hospital? * When hospitalized, are the chances that you will be sharing a room with a Jew? * will you be arrested for being outside of PA areas after your 22:00 curfew? Exactly. So no apartheid. As for what Israel's doing in Gaza, maybe Hamas and friends shouldn't have started a war they couldn't win for the umpteenth time. They're really lucky that Israel isn't like most other countries in the world because who else warns their enemies before they strike them? If it had been Mexico and the US, Mexico would have been flattened and the population decimated by October 8th
Agree. Enough trying to appease the extremists and to show them strength and consequences instead. If a group isn't punished for their actions, they won't stop doing said actions.
But all this does is embolden extremist, and make a peaceful solution harder.
No it doesn't. Things got worse after the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and setup the Palestinian Authority. Had neither of these things happened then today things wouldn't be as bad and be the same as they were in the mid 80's
Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, without any coordination with the Palestinian Authority. Obviously there is going to be instability, as there is a power vacuum that Hamas managed to fill. Also, the reason why the mid 80s to 90s were good, was because the PLO renounced terrorism, and decided to negotiate with Israel. What did they get from it. That is why Palestinians are starting to support terrorism, because when they did try to do things peacefully, they got nothing. That’s not to justify terrorism, because it is never justified, but to show you that every time Israel delegitimise the moderate PA, they are not bolstering their cause, but the cause of extremist like Hamas.
How? This is bad for Israel. Israel was founded as a Jewish and Democratic State. If they expand into the West Bank, and refuse to give Palestinian citizenship, they would no longer be democratic, and if they give Palestinians citizenship, they would no longer be Jewish. A two-state solution is the only reasonable solution.
No this is bad this halts peace even more by the genocidal Israeli side.
Peace? What peace? Nobody wants peace, definitely not the Palestinians and now neither do the Israelis. Genocide? What genocide? You must mean the genocide planned by Hamas.
Good as in what?
Good as in not bad 🫢
If the Palestinians don't like Area C being annexed, they can accept a peace deal, counteroffer, or offer one of their own. Their current strategy - waiting for big foreign powers to commit genocide against the Jews so they can move in - didn't work in 1948 and won't work now.
There have been deals that Hamas hasn’t accepted—-no doubt. But some deal like the most recent deal was rejected by Netanyahu. Because he wants this war. As for the second part of your statement I’m not sure what you meant.
What deal? I was talking about a peace deal that grants Palestinians a state.
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Really that’s the deal. The deal I’m talking about is the deal American and possibly other western powers proposed but said Israel came up with it because they always have to make Israel look good but then Israel said no to it. If the US was pushing for this last deal which they were are you saying they were okay with all of that. I doubt it. So that wasn’t the proposal. Let me put this out there. I don’t support Hamas in any way they are a terror group. But like Al qaeda they were created by the very people they want to annihilate. Maybe Bibi shouldn’t have created them. But I guess Bibi gets a pass. In fact he gets rewarded for it by being elected. So to blame all Gazans for electing Hamas is no different than what Jewish Israelis have done. They elected this problem.
I’m sure we can go back and forth on this. Maybe we could agree on certain things. Explain—why if the West Bank is not controlled by Hamas—-why are Palestinians dying there. 500 hundred have been killed and scores wounded since October 7th. I’m sure you have seen the numbers. Western media including Israeli media have certainly been posting that for the world to see. Why are they dying? Oh because Jewish Israelis are there. Whether they are settlers or IDF. Those people are not supposed to be there. Therefore none of those Palestinians would be dead. These are causes for the violence that only Palestinians get blamed for. A farmer being harassed on his farm in the West Bank by settlers under the protection of the IDF and ultimately killed is a cause for what’s going on. The causes of violence need to stop. But if that involves Jewish Israelis it’ll never happen.
I do not want settlers in the West Bank. What’s the end goal? Endless conflict? Where does it end?
The Gaza invastion was cover for West Bank land grab. No surprise here.
Get some fresh Air ur brain really could need it
What land grab? Israel took control from Jordan after a defensive war. 2008 Israel like Gaza offered Judea and Samaria for peace and the PA said no. What land grab? Please explain.
You can’t annex or settle another countries land, even in a defensive war. Also, the West Bank was not Jordan’s to give, as they were also occupiers.
Jordan occupiers but no one in the Arab world cared. Also yes you can claim land in defensive war. Do you think their shouldn't be consequences to starting war? Lastly it has never been Palestinian land. The name alone which they call it the West bank(original and real name Judea and Samaria) shows that. However, why did they say no 2008?
First, no, people did care about Jordan annexation. Initially, Jordan and Egypt were supposed to hold the Palestinian Territories in a trust, until the “Palestinians Question” is resolved. When Jordan tried to annex the West Bank, the Arab League tried to kick Jordan out, with Egypt, Saudi Arabia Syria and Lebanon voting to expel Jordan from the Arab League. They were only save from dissenting votes from Yemen, and Iraq. Iraq was the only Arab country to recognise Jordan annexation, probably because both monarchs were from the same family. So, no people did care when Jordan was the occupier. Second, I don’t know where this myth comes from, but under international law, you CAN NOT claim land, even in a defensive war, without the permission of the other country. Territorial integrity is a fundamental principle in international law. There are consequences, like sanctions, embargo, diplomatic isolation etc. but things like reparations, territorial changes etc. is only done with both parties agreement. National Sovereignty is important. In any case, under United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, it calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories, so they have no right to claim any Palestinian (or Syrian) territory. Third, Palestinians live there, so it is Palestinian lands. With the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, Palestine was given a state along side Israel. After the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Israel was admitted into the UN with 1949 Armistice Border (Green Line), so that became their international borders, making anything beyond that occupied territories. So yes, it is Palestinian land. Finally, Israel’s proposal has either been unacceptable to Palestinians, or in bad faith. Many of the proposals do not address Palestinian Right of Return, or the settlements. Some proposals have Israel annexing parts of the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, which most Palestinians feel is unacceptable. Yes, Palestinians have historically had a policy of all or nothing, which has been detrimental to the Palestinian Cause, and they haven’t been so innocent, but Israel isn’t so innocent either.
https://www.google.com/search?q=international+law+claiming+land+in+defensive+war&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=d96aa4fd0b1ebae6&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIK4XR_2glA-CVPYXlmsKahoA5E9-w%3A1720150210628&ei=wmiHZtL3JeyOuvQP9-q28AY&oq=international+law+claiming+land+in+defensive+war&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIjBpbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIGxhdyBjbGFpbWluZyBsYW5kIGluIGRlZmVuc2l2ZSB3YXIyBBAjGCcyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESIseUKkXWKkXcAB4ApABAJgBygWgAcoFqgEDNi0xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAICoALtBcICBBAAGEeYAwDiAwUSATEgQIgGAZAGCJIHBTEuNS0xoAe8BQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp Zuheir Mohsen view, not my opinion but the PLO in 1977 The Palestinian people do not exist. There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are part of one people, the Arab nation. Lo and behold, I have relatives with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are one people. It is only for political reasons that we carefully endorse our Palestinian identity. Indeed, it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians in the face of Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new means to continue the struggle against Israel and for Arab unity.
Like I said, UN Security Council Resolution 242, calls for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories, so even if Israel was in a defensive war, security council resolution, which are legally binding, says Israel cannot annex any territory. Also, while it is debated whether you can claim territory in a defensive war, given the fact that no country has ever done this (Iran never claimed territory after Iraq attack them, Timor-Leste never claimed Indonesian after being occupied), it is why I disagree with the notion that you can claim territory in a defensive war. Palestinian have their own national identity. That doesn’t mean that they’re not Arabs. They are not mutually exclusive. Palestinians are Arab, but not all Arabs are Palestinian. You have a shared culture and history, but also a distinct identity. It is why you guys have different dialects. That doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians have the right to statehood.
So now defensive war is debatable to claim land. Shared heritage from the Arabian Peninsula If they want state hood accept the land offered an build a state yet they always chose war and attacks instead.
No, I said I disagree with the claim that you can claim land in defensive war. I was just acknowledging that there are people who believe otherwise. In any case, you haven’t said anything about the UN Security Council Resolution that calls on Israel to withdraw from occupied lands. That resolution is legally binding. Yes, they share cultural heritage from the Arabian Peninsula, but ancestral, Palestinians are Levantine with limited admixture from the Arabian Peninsula (I think like 10% to 20%, though I could be wrong about the exact percentage). Palestine did negotiate with Israel from the late 80s to early 2000s, during the Oslo Process. What did they get out of it? They are still occupied. Also, don’t know your stance on the current Israeli government, but it is hypocritical for Netanyahu and Likud to complain about Palestinians not accepting a peace deal, when they opposed the Oslo Peace Process and actively sabotaged it.
The UN also comment tbe following the U.N. Charter does not make all war illegal. Indeed, it expressly reaffirms the legality of a defensive war. Since defensive war is not illegal, it follows that the defender's territorial gains from such a war would not be illegal.
The British Mandate followed by the 1967 war.
Because Hamas run gaza attacked Israel. So Israel has to land grab and punish the PA run west bank... *Israeli logic*
Oh yeah they should just sit around and wait for the terrorists to claim it, brilliant idea! Hamas is Palestine, Hamas are Palestinians, in every area.
Look, there are two factions in the Palestinian Liberation Movement, the the moderate PLO, who are willing to work with Israel to establish their own country in the 67 borders, and Hamas, who are a bunch of radical Islamist extremist who do not recognise Israel’s right to exist. Every time Israel screws over the PLO, it increases support for Hamas, and their cause, thus increasing terrorism. It is in Israel’s best interest to accept a 2 State Solution.
Lol....are you saying Hamas is claiming west bank right now? IDF there overran? Level of bullshyt is insane haha... I guess it's what Israel is employing to justify their final solution
Hamas is claiming all of Israel, including the West Bank and they desire to create an Islamic State. They literally said this themselves in their charter that this is their goal and have repeated it openly. It takes two seconds to google that. You are laughing but the only funny thing here is your astounding stupidity.
What land grab? Israel took control from Jordan after a defensive war. 2008 Israel like Gaza offered Judea and Samaria for peace and the PA said no. What land grab? Please explain. FYI the PA has a pay-for-slay law and paid terrorists and family for the Oct 7 attack
This is terrible. Israel should stop sending settlers on occupied territories. It is a violation of International Law.
Palestine lost their war of aggression and Israel won the land in a defensive war. There is no violation of international law. Only Palestine violated it.
You can't legally win land, even in a defensive war. You can't annex territories, without permission from the other country. Israel occupation is a violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, which is legally binding, unlike UN General Assembly Resolutions. It doesn't matter what happened, Palestine still has the right to exist. It is hypocritical to say Israel has the right to exist, while denying Palestine the same right.
Israel didn’t need permission from the losing side of the war. If Palestinians never started wars, maybe people would be on their side. However they non stop attack Israel including innocents civilians in terror attacks. Palestine doesn’t deserve to exist, yet Israel is kind enough to give them land anyway.
This isn’t a Paradox Game. You can’t claim land, even in a defensive war. Palestine’s right to exist doesn’t go away just because they lost a war. Under international law, Israel border is the 1967 borders, and anything beyond that is occupied territories. Israel is giving some of there land back that Palestine is entitled to under international law, isn’t some great thing.
How did their border change from the 1948 border to the 1967 borders?
Israel joined the UN with the 1949 Armistice Border. With the Six Day War, they managed to occupy the Palestinian Territories (including East Jerusalem), the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel gave the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt, but annexed and settled East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, which is a violation of International Law. How this clarifies what I said.
So they annexed the land. And then the international recognized border became the 1967 border. How about they just annex the land again and get a new border?
Because that is not how international law works. Russia can’t annex Crimea, neither can Israel annex the Golan Heights or East Jerusalem. The entire point of the UN is to make sure there isn’t any changing of borders, and that territorial integrity is paramount.
Palestine lost their right to territorial integrity when they invaded Israel, slaughtered, raped, mutilated, and took hostage innocent women and children.