Here is the full quote from the Wikipedia page:
>Those writers known from the old days, the times just after the gods.
>Those who foretold what would happen (and did), whose names will endure for eternity.
>They disappeared when they finished their lives, and all their kindred forgotten.
>They did not build pyramids in bronze with gravestones of iron from heaven.
>They did not think to leave a patrimony made of children who would give their names distinction,
>rather they formed a progeny by means of writing and in the books of wisdom they left...
>They gave themselves [the scroll as lector]-priest, the writing board as loving son.
>nstruction are their tombs, the reed pen their child, the stone surface their wife.....
>Man decays, his corpse is dust. All his kin have perished;
>But a book makes him remembered through the mouth of its reciter.
>Better is a book than a well built house...
Interesting that this person acknowledges the existence of gods (even though it is implied that the gods existed long ago and are no longer with us), but seemingly does not believe in afterlife which was so important for Ancient Egyptian religion.
Well, you may say that "They disappeared when they finished their lives" means that dead people disappear from our world but continue their existence elsewhere (in their tomb or in the Fields of Reeds), but it may mean that people stop existing *anywhere* when they die. That's why I said "seemingly". The author certainly does not believe in bodily immortality which was the main reason corpses were mummified and placed in tombs filled with food and other stuff.
Ancient Egyptian religion changed a lot over the few thousand years they existed. At first, only the royalty was thought to join the gods in the afterlife. Being mummified was special and reserved for royalty, then became more common.
True, but we know the period when this scroll was written. It's from New Kingdom nearing its end, when everyone could enter the afterlife if their heart passed the judgement. Or at least that was the dominant version of belief. We know that there were different religious centers with different emphasis on various gods even in the same era.
For a very long time, the consensus in ancient Egypt was that there was an afterlife, but unless you were really important, you weren't going there. Or rather you would, but you'd be instantly killed by monsters or you'd rot or something else bad.
The Egyptian afterlife goes like this. First, your heart gets weighed against a feather. If your heart is heavier, it means it's laden with sin, and you get obliterated or sent to hell (depending who you ask).
Succeed, and you go to a hall of trials. There, you have to pass a series of gates and checkpoints. You'll be reciting the names of dozens of gods, listing your good deeds, convincing fire breathing demons that you deserve to go to heaven, and so forth. Fail any of these and, generally, your soul is obliterated, although sometimes you get a chance at reincarnation instead. Only if you pass them all can you reach Aaru: Egyptian heaven.
And that's the easy mode version where you get a cool ghost body to navigate the afterlife. In the oldest traditions, you didn't get a new body when you died. You got a copy of the existing one, damage and all. Ever wonder why a lot of mummies had their organs in jars? It's so they wouldn't rot while they were still in the afterlife. An improperly prepared person would die, wake up in the afterlife, and then explode from gas buildup because their stomach decomposed inside of them.
Important people would of course get the most extensive preparation, having their organs preserved so they wouldn't decompose but would still exist, so the deceased could continue to eat in the afterlife. The middle class might simply remove or liquefy the organs, preventing decomposition but also putting a time limit on their trials before they starved.
Ancient Egyptian mythology existed for thousands of years and changed a lot during that time, so all or none of this could apply depending on what time period you lived in. During the later years it was considered much easier for common folk to at least get reincarnated, but eternal life was never a given.
In most polytheistic cultures, there is no one "canon" or one codified belief that people must adhere to. In fact, the idea of a "religion" in the modern sense is quite, well, modern. For a lot of people in history, gods were real, that was a fact of life; but which gods you worship, how you worship them, and what philosophical ideas you believe it, may differ. In this case, it's nothing strange to believe/know that gods exist, but reject the idea of an afterlife.
>They did not build pyramids in bronze with gravestones of iron from heaven. They did not think to leave a patrimony made of children who would give their names distinction, rather they formed a progeny by means of writing and in the books of wisdom they left.
This is probably my favorite part that I've seen so far (though I felt the other quote was best for a title). Its interesting how the author(s?) contrasts the immortality of writers against the pyramids which is what we normally think of as Ancient Egypt's legacy.
Yet there are bilions of people that lived and died,yet those that we know of are only those mentioned in books,texts or paintings.
For example we know absolutely nothing about the Temple of Artemis except the guy that burned it is named Herostratus,which is comedy gold because they guys that declared all records of him to be destroyed are actually more obscure than him.
In all fairness it's translated from a 3000 year old script that probably doesn't have many direct translations to most modern languages and we have no context from spoken word to help
If I had to guess it is, like you say, probably a loose translation meaning something more like "large collection of writing." If I recall correctly books (and means of writing-storage that look like books appeared later.
I only stumbled across this on wikipedia but the source from there is Volume II of *Ancient Egyptian Literature* by Miriam Lichtheim if anyone wants to find a copy and see if anything is said about that.
I'm guessing it was papyrus, and if the Torah is a scroll I'm assuming the quote was changed as some may scratch their head at the word scroll.
Unless they meant stories carved into the walls of tombs and the like.... Not sure I'm aware of any ancient Egyptian paparyi in existence as they all rotted and turned into dust...
Even though literal tons of ancient papyri perished throughout the centuries, there are many that still exist. If they were not burned and weren't transported to a humid place, they could endure for a very long time. That's why we know at least some parts of Ancient Egyptian culture, religion, daily life, philosophy and so on. [Here are some known papyri which are now stored safely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_papyri_from_ancient_Egypt). The oldest are more than 4000 years old!
“One glance at (a book) and you hear the voice of another person - perhaps someone dead for thousands of years. Across the millenia, the author is speaking, clearly and silently, inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
We will never know how many books or other pieces of information were already lost by the time this was written. Evidence is overwhelming that these ancient cultures all over Earth shared common knowledge about outer space and building pyramids to communicate with life beyond Earth. So it would be interesting to find the books this quote was written about, because they are now long lost.
Mostly no, it's a bit of a pain in the rear to carve stone and heavy to transport too. But stone preserves well, while papyrus doesn't, so there is there is a bit of a survivorship bias in remaining samples.
Most writing of more temporary nature wouldn't even have spent papyrus, but would have been carved on wax tablets. If there was need to preserve text long term then a draft in wax would have been copied to papyrus. And only really ceremonial stuff would have ended up carved on a wall of a temple or a tomb.
And eventually they developed a phonetic way of writing (hieratic, and later demotic) that could be wriiten quickly. Hieroglyphics was reserved for public monuments.
Here is the full quote from the Wikipedia page: >Those writers known from the old days, the times just after the gods. >Those who foretold what would happen (and did), whose names will endure for eternity. >They disappeared when they finished their lives, and all their kindred forgotten. >They did not build pyramids in bronze with gravestones of iron from heaven. >They did not think to leave a patrimony made of children who would give their names distinction, >rather they formed a progeny by means of writing and in the books of wisdom they left... >They gave themselves [the scroll as lector]-priest, the writing board as loving son. >nstruction are their tombs, the reed pen their child, the stone surface their wife..... >Man decays, his corpse is dust. All his kin have perished; >But a book makes him remembered through the mouth of its reciter. >Better is a book than a well built house...
"The old days, the times just after the gods" is sick as hell. If someone opened a book with that \*today\*, I would be instantly on board.
Interesting that this person acknowledges the existence of gods (even though it is implied that the gods existed long ago and are no longer with us), but seemingly does not believe in afterlife which was so important for Ancient Egyptian religion.
Why do you think the writer doesn't believe in the afterlife?
Well, you may say that "They disappeared when they finished their lives" means that dead people disappear from our world but continue their existence elsewhere (in their tomb or in the Fields of Reeds), but it may mean that people stop existing *anywhere* when they die. That's why I said "seemingly". The author certainly does not believe in bodily immortality which was the main reason corpses were mummified and placed in tombs filled with food and other stuff.
Ancient Egyptian religion changed a lot over the few thousand years they existed. At first, only the royalty was thought to join the gods in the afterlife. Being mummified was special and reserved for royalty, then became more common.
True, but we know the period when this scroll was written. It's from New Kingdom nearing its end, when everyone could enter the afterlife if their heart passed the judgement. Or at least that was the dominant version of belief. We know that there were different religious centers with different emphasis on various gods even in the same era.
For a very long time, the consensus in ancient Egypt was that there was an afterlife, but unless you were really important, you weren't going there. Or rather you would, but you'd be instantly killed by monsters or you'd rot or something else bad. The Egyptian afterlife goes like this. First, your heart gets weighed against a feather. If your heart is heavier, it means it's laden with sin, and you get obliterated or sent to hell (depending who you ask). Succeed, and you go to a hall of trials. There, you have to pass a series of gates and checkpoints. You'll be reciting the names of dozens of gods, listing your good deeds, convincing fire breathing demons that you deserve to go to heaven, and so forth. Fail any of these and, generally, your soul is obliterated, although sometimes you get a chance at reincarnation instead. Only if you pass them all can you reach Aaru: Egyptian heaven. And that's the easy mode version where you get a cool ghost body to navigate the afterlife. In the oldest traditions, you didn't get a new body when you died. You got a copy of the existing one, damage and all. Ever wonder why a lot of mummies had their organs in jars? It's so they wouldn't rot while they were still in the afterlife. An improperly prepared person would die, wake up in the afterlife, and then explode from gas buildup because their stomach decomposed inside of them. Important people would of course get the most extensive preparation, having their organs preserved so they wouldn't decompose but would still exist, so the deceased could continue to eat in the afterlife. The middle class might simply remove or liquefy the organs, preventing decomposition but also putting a time limit on their trials before they starved. Ancient Egyptian mythology existed for thousands of years and changed a lot during that time, so all or none of this could apply depending on what time period you lived in. During the later years it was considered much easier for common folk to at least get reincarnated, but eternal life was never a given.
In most polytheistic cultures, there is no one "canon" or one codified belief that people must adhere to. In fact, the idea of a "religion" in the modern sense is quite, well, modern. For a lot of people in history, gods were real, that was a fact of life; but which gods you worship, how you worship them, and what philosophical ideas you believe it, may differ. In this case, it's nothing strange to believe/know that gods exist, but reject the idea of an afterlife.
>They did not build pyramids in bronze with gravestones of iron from heaven. They did not think to leave a patrimony made of children who would give their names distinction, rather they formed a progeny by means of writing and in the books of wisdom they left. This is probably my favorite part that I've seen so far (though I felt the other quote was best for a title). Its interesting how the author(s?) contrasts the immortality of writers against the pyramids which is what we normally think of as Ancient Egypt's legacy.
It sounds better in ancient Egyptian
As far I know , currently the best way to achieve immortality is selling bad quality copper.
Fucking Ea-Nasir...
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying." –Woody Allen
so he could spend all eternity touching little girls.
LMFAOOOOO
That's just propaganda to make people learn this newfangled invention of writing.
Yet there are bilions of people that lived and died,yet those that we know of are only those mentioned in books,texts or paintings. For example we know absolutely nothing about the Temple of Artemis except the guy that burned it is named Herostratus,which is comedy gold because they guys that declared all records of him to be destroyed are actually more obscure than him.
Even wolves
Fuck off Rebecca
Ironically, we don't know who wrote that.
Ironically the person who lived the longest this way wasn't a writer but someone selling bad quality product.
—my son, 3, who is a lot smarter than I am
Well said.
Was the term “book” used that far back? Perhaps this translation is a little fast and loose with the term
In all fairness it's translated from a 3000 year old script that probably doesn't have many direct translations to most modern languages and we have no context from spoken word to help
If I had to guess it is, like you say, probably a loose translation meaning something more like "large collection of writing." If I recall correctly books (and means of writing-storage that look like books appeared later. I only stumbled across this on wikipedia but the source from there is Volume II of *Ancient Egyptian Literature* by Miriam Lichtheim if anyone wants to find a copy and see if anything is said about that.
I'm guessing it was papyrus, and if the Torah is a scroll I'm assuming the quote was changed as some may scratch their head at the word scroll. Unless they meant stories carved into the walls of tombs and the like.... Not sure I'm aware of any ancient Egyptian paparyi in existence as they all rotted and turned into dust...
Even though literal tons of ancient papyri perished throughout the centuries, there are many that still exist. If they were not burned and weren't transported to a humid place, they could endure for a very long time. That's why we know at least some parts of Ancient Egyptian culture, religion, daily life, philosophy and so on. [Here are some known papyri which are now stored safely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_papyri_from_ancient_Egypt). The oldest are more than 4000 years old!
I don’t know, man. That’s pretty fucking metal
Everlasting life through parchment, not bloodline. The written word, our true offspring.
I love this. Thank you for sharing!
Early version of, “once it’s on the internet, it’s there forever.”
"Except after 2025"
Basically... holy books?
True, writing has transformed humanity.
Isn't this the premise of Doerr's "Cloud Cuckoo Land"?
Or you could just sell some really shitty copper, that works too
/r/imfrom1000bceandthisisdeep
Well, we've plenty of older myths and legends whose authors aren't known yet, by t ehexistence of these works, we're still linked to these authors.
Now you know why some people wanna ban books.
Every person suffers 2 deaths. 1st is the body the 2nd is your memory. Who will be the last person to remember you?
Coincidentally not kept in the Library of Alexandria.
“One glance at (a book) and you hear the voice of another person - perhaps someone dead for thousands of years. Across the millenia, the author is speaking, clearly and silently, inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time.” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
We will never know how many books or other pieces of information were already lost by the time this was written. Evidence is overwhelming that these ancient cultures all over Earth shared common knowledge about outer space and building pyramids to communicate with life beyond Earth. So it would be interesting to find the books this quote was written about, because they are now long lost.
Book? 1000 BCE? Really? I thought they were writing hieroglyphs in stone?
Mostly no, it's a bit of a pain in the rear to carve stone and heavy to transport too. But stone preserves well, while papyrus doesn't, so there is there is a bit of a survivorship bias in remaining samples. Most writing of more temporary nature wouldn't even have spent papyrus, but would have been carved on wax tablets. If there was need to preserve text long term then a draft in wax would have been copied to papyrus. And only really ceremonial stuff would have ended up carved on a wall of a temple or a tomb.
And eventually they developed a phonetic way of writing (hieratic, and later demotic) that could be wriiten quickly. Hieroglyphics was reserved for public monuments.
But how many lost works are there?
Less than dead people?
As many as not found