"‘Long time I fell,’ he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with difficulty. ‘Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.’
‘Deep is the abyss that is spanned by Durin’s Bridge, and none has measured it,’ said Gimli.
‘Yet it has a bottom, beyond light and knowledge,’ said Gandalf. ‘Thither I came at last, to the uttermost foundations of stone. He was with me still. His fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake. ‘We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Gloin. Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dum: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.’
‘Long has that been lost,’ said Gimli. ‘Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.’
‘It was made, and it had not been destroyed,’ said Gandalf. ‘From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin’s Tower carved in the living rock of Zirakzigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine."
\- *The Two Towers*, Book III, V, "The White Rider"
Imagine if the Balrog had escaped with Gandalf stuck alone down there with only those nameless things. Creepy.
Though I have to wonder if Gandalf is really understating what happened there. No way his old man body could survive such a long fall or survive the days and physical exertion without food and rest. He must have uncloaked a good chunk of his maiar nature. In which case, those nameless things were probably not much of a threat to him. Especially if the Balrog has also been there a few times without suffering consequence.
I suspect the "dark tunnels" were dug by Morgoth's forces as part of connecting the defenses and Utumno. The Balrog had to get from Angband to underneath Moria somehow, right?
When the Balrog fled during the War of Wrath, Khazad Dum was already a flowering city. Balrogs are pretty noticeable, so he had to have some method of ending up deep below a thriving dwarven city without being noticed. The only thing I can think of is if he snuck in those "dark tunnels."
"I gotta get out of here!!" the Balrog yelled as he ran up thousands of steps, as one would run up a basement staircase after the lights have gone out.
A quick (and probably inaccurate) calculation sets the Empire State Building at 2000 steps. So plug in your own guess of how many, "...many thousand steps," is and there you go.
They initially fell far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves (and I doubt any orc had been there before, either), but there were tunnels/caves (made by the Nameless Things?) that led upwards, towards the bottom of the Endless Stair. Gandalf ran after the Balrog because the Balrog knew that way out.
The Nameless Things are beings that are very old and gnaw the world. Gandalf might have seen them and thus may have had a chance to make observations about them that he didn't share, but given that these creatures don't even have names it makes sense that nothing more is known about them.
We know the world was created from the music of the Ainur, right?
What if the ancient nameless things are the embodiment of the cacophony of the Ainur getting their instruments in tune before they started?
Right so my head canon is that they’ve been down here on middle earth longer than him. There’s a few things Gandalf says that I’m not taking literally such as when he says rings of power are perilous, only Bilbo ever gave away one freely (Narya/Cirdan?? Vilya/Gil Galad??). Old wizard seems a little dramatic some times
That would make them younger than Sauron, since Sauron was born/created before Arda existed.
Meaning that they are from the Void, like Ungoliant, drawn to Arda from the Black like moths to a flame.
Well pretty much all the information we get is the short bit that gandalf shares with us in Fangorn when he reunites with the others. Which is:
They fell into the lake. The lake put out the Balrog's fire. They struggled a bit, but they both wanted to get the hell out of there because the Nameless Things were around, which Gandalf refuses to even talk about. The Balrog, having lived under the mountain for so long, is apparently at least somewhat familiar with the cave systems even that far down, and starts fleeing through them. Gandalf desperately pursues the Balrog as it's his only hope for finding his way out. Eventually, the Balrog somehow finds his way to the Endless Stair, where they climb all the way to the very top of Zirakzigil, where the Balrog is able to finally reignite his flames and duel Gandalf to the death.
The Dwarves presumably just kept digging as long as it seemed useful to dig. Maybe they stopped because something spooked them, or maybe they stopped because they deemed it pointless to keep going deeper when they'd already uncovered mithril higher up. In any case, the Endless Stair terminates somewhere very deep under Khazad-dum, and the cave systems that lead further down into the realm of the Nameless Things somehow connect to it.
Edit: As far as *what* the nameless things are, we know next to nothing. Although, it's pretty commonly believed that the Watcher in the Water was a Nameless Thing that had migrated from the depths of Moria.
I always disagreed with the Watcher in the Water most likely being a Nameless Thing; it's a theory that sounds interesting (leading to it spreading and becoming embedded in headcanon) but isn't really based on anything; the Watcher in the Water and the Nameless Things, as described, don't seem to share any traits as far as I can tell.
Given that the Watcher in the Water has tentacles like an octopus and lives in the water like an octopus, the closest association I can think of is with the monsters that Morgoth created during his dominion over Middle-earth.
I mean, gandalf speculates that it comes from "the deep places" under the the mountain, which is the same language that he uses for the nameless things, and it's a freaky creature unlike anything else around. I wouldn't call that "not based on anything". It's a pretty obvious conclusion and fairly popular as a result.
“And then, when I was nearing the top, I saw the most horrifying sight I had seen in all my wanderings—a sign saying ‘Stairwell No. 2 — No Roof Access’”
"‘Long time I fell,’ he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with difficulty. ‘Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.’ ‘Deep is the abyss that is spanned by Durin’s Bridge, and none has measured it,’ said Gimli. ‘Yet it has a bottom, beyond light and knowledge,’ said Gandalf. ‘Thither I came at last, to the uttermost foundations of stone. He was with me still. His fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake. ‘We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Gloin. Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dum: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.’ ‘Long has that been lost,’ said Gimli. ‘Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.’ ‘It was made, and it had not been destroyed,’ said Gandalf. ‘From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin’s Tower carved in the living rock of Zirakzigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine." \- *The Two Towers*, Book III, V, "The White Rider"
[удалено]
Do it. If you don't have time to read, listen to the audio book. New edition is read by Andy Serkis amd he does a bang up job with the voices.
The best 💯👌
Imagine if the Balrog had escaped with Gandalf stuck alone down there with only those nameless things. Creepy. Though I have to wonder if Gandalf is really understating what happened there. No way his old man body could survive such a long fall or survive the days and physical exertion without food and rest. He must have uncloaked a good chunk of his maiar nature. In which case, those nameless things were probably not much of a threat to him. Especially if the Balrog has also been there a few times without suffering consequence.
I suspect the "dark tunnels" were dug by Morgoth's forces as part of connecting the defenses and Utumno. The Balrog had to get from Angband to underneath Moria somehow, right?
I thought he just fled in the confusion of the war.
When the Balrog fled during the War of Wrath, Khazad Dum was already a flowering city. Balrogs are pretty noticeable, so he had to have some method of ending up deep below a thriving dwarven city without being noticed. The only thing I can think of is if he snuck in those "dark tunnels."
Wow. Nameless things older than he. Wonder if the Balrog feared to dally too long there
"I gotta get out of here!!" the Balrog yelled as he ran up thousands of steps, as one would run up a basement staircase after the lights have gone out.
🤩😆
A quick (and probably inaccurate) calculation sets the Empire State Building at 2000 steps. So plug in your own guess of how many, "...many thousand steps," is and there you go.
They initially fell far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves (and I doubt any orc had been there before, either), but there were tunnels/caves (made by the Nameless Things?) that led upwards, towards the bottom of the Endless Stair. Gandalf ran after the Balrog because the Balrog knew that way out. The Nameless Things are beings that are very old and gnaw the world. Gandalf might have seen them and thus may have had a chance to make observations about them that he didn't share, but given that these creatures don't even have names it makes sense that nothing more is known about them.
We know the world was created from the music of the Ainur, right? What if the ancient nameless things are the embodiment of the cacophony of the Ainur getting their instruments in tune before they started?
That’s my interpretation. Some of the unknown in Arda might be Ainur, but a lot could also be beings sung by the discord.
Nameless things from Utumno I bet?
Sauron didn't know them because they're older than him, so that's unlikely.
Was Sauron among the first people in Utumno?
No, but he is older than Utumno.
Right so my head canon is that they’ve been down here on middle earth longer than him. There’s a few things Gandalf says that I’m not taking literally such as when he says rings of power are perilous, only Bilbo ever gave away one freely (Narya/Cirdan?? Vilya/Gil Galad??). Old wizard seems a little dramatic some times
That would make them younger than Sauron, since Sauron was born/created before Arda existed. Meaning that they are from the Void, like Ungoliant, drawn to Arda from the Black like moths to a flame.
Well pretty much all the information we get is the short bit that gandalf shares with us in Fangorn when he reunites with the others. Which is: They fell into the lake. The lake put out the Balrog's fire. They struggled a bit, but they both wanted to get the hell out of there because the Nameless Things were around, which Gandalf refuses to even talk about. The Balrog, having lived under the mountain for so long, is apparently at least somewhat familiar with the cave systems even that far down, and starts fleeing through them. Gandalf desperately pursues the Balrog as it's his only hope for finding his way out. Eventually, the Balrog somehow finds his way to the Endless Stair, where they climb all the way to the very top of Zirakzigil, where the Balrog is able to finally reignite his flames and duel Gandalf to the death. The Dwarves presumably just kept digging as long as it seemed useful to dig. Maybe they stopped because something spooked them, or maybe they stopped because they deemed it pointless to keep going deeper when they'd already uncovered mithril higher up. In any case, the Endless Stair terminates somewhere very deep under Khazad-dum, and the cave systems that lead further down into the realm of the Nameless Things somehow connect to it. Edit: As far as *what* the nameless things are, we know next to nothing. Although, it's pretty commonly believed that the Watcher in the Water was a Nameless Thing that had migrated from the depths of Moria.
I always disagreed with the Watcher in the Water most likely being a Nameless Thing; it's a theory that sounds interesting (leading to it spreading and becoming embedded in headcanon) but isn't really based on anything; the Watcher in the Water and the Nameless Things, as described, don't seem to share any traits as far as I can tell. Given that the Watcher in the Water has tentacles like an octopus and lives in the water like an octopus, the closest association I can think of is with the monsters that Morgoth created during his dominion over Middle-earth.
I mean, gandalf speculates that it comes from "the deep places" under the the mountain, which is the same language that he uses for the nameless things, and it's a freaky creature unlike anything else around. I wouldn't call that "not based on anything". It's a pretty obvious conclusion and fairly popular as a result.
Big stairs.
Escalator to the Soft Toy department, walk a bit, stair up to the roof from there.
“And then, when I was nearing the top, I saw the most horrifying sight I had seen in all my wanderings—a sign saying ‘Stairwell No. 2 — No Roof Access’”
Flew on Balrog wings, obv.
They went down down down then they went through tunnels then up a LOT of stairs.