Imagine surviving your whole life, growing and taking care of your children - seeing them begin to raise their own children.... then bam. You're just dead. Your families lives are ruined forever by some fucking asshole... this makes me so angry.
That story makes me sick every time I’m reminded of it. Can’t imagine what the husband is going through after losing his beautiful wife and daughters. So heartbreaking
My best friend died like this with his brother and mother in a car collision. He was grade 9 and his brother was in grade 10 who happened to be my brother's best friend. Our families were really close and our mothers were very close friends. The father was broken afterwards and was never the same. He couldn't bear to look at me, my brother or my mother because he kept thinking of them. I finally spoke to him again when I was in my 30s. He still had so much sadness in his eyes when we spoke. That day ruined this man for the rest of his life. He eventually remarried to another widower but he was never truly happy again.
I remember the sister during the court case, as he didn't make it, saying he was a shell of his former self. That someone had to read his victim impact statement, he was so devastated to attend. I think of that family too much. Coming home from a morning of swim at their grandparents- I can't imagine.
My dad's employee/co worker lost two of his kids within a few years. I know one of them was drown in a little pool/reservoir they had in front of their house while going under renovation.
My dad said he was never the same. Just thinking about it is brutal, going through it? Must be worse than biblical and Islam's hell.
I hope the parents of this infant have enough family support.
Adding to the complete devastation, not only did her marriage not survive over the years following the loss of their children, Mr. Neville-Lake took his own life two years ago.
That Muzzo character, along with his whole family (!), created a huge ripple effect from their rich, entitled, self centred, self preserving lifestyle.
... [Muzzo was already a problematic drunk driver before the Nevile-Lake crash](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/accused-in-vaughan-crash-marco-muzzo-has-history-of-provincial-offences/article_1a47ada1-386d-53a0-b2d2-42de4b0815e3.html)
I’d like to know why a *liquor store robbery* necessitated authorization of a high speed police chase that killed a baby and grandparents. Police departments started shifting away from police chases in the 90s because chases kept killing innocent bystanders. Some cities have a no pursuit policy for theft. The police can’t control everything, but this was a decision they had complete control over and it led to the death of four people. this is a pretty big fuck up
Thank you. While the person who led the chase was responsible, it's really important that we don't ignore the ACAB of this. This chase was not worth the cost.
Absolutely unacceptable for police to chase a car in the on-coming lane of a highway in LIVE traffic. Absolute tragedy that could have possibly been avoided if they used their brains
Grandparents and an infant. Someone’s parents and their own baby. *God*.
I can’t even begin to imagine what that conversation was like. And all because of some degenerate.
I don’t mean to be obtuse, genuine question… how? This is one of those times I’d fully understand vigilantism, I’m just at a total loss for words and feelings about this.
My point was that’s the only thing we can do.
Vigilantism and activism here could help May be.
Most of take these things lying down. It could have been anyone’s family here.
All because cops felt the need to chase someone who stole a few dollars and liquor
The robbery and the chase are separate events and should not be conflated. With the amount of video evidence they would have caught the perp anyways.
I keep saying this - there is almost no excuse for police chases unless someone’s life is in danger. Chasing someone who has robbed a liquor store is just reckless. Take the license plate, get the security video, and catch the guy later.
Yes the dude is also at fault, but is it really asking that much for police to not unnecessarily escalate the situation and put the public in danger over a $30 bottle of liquor?
100 percent
This is a very educated response.
No one is saying the robber isn't to blame. We are only saying that chasing the robber resulting in innocent people dying isn't the answer
Nothing can bring that baby back. Their parents lives are ruined. A child that had unlimited potential will not see the light of day again.
Simply put, the policy of not chasing must be inacted, unless an immediate life is in danger
The cops deserve a disproportionate amount of the blame.
Did we learn nothing recently about how triggering a fight or flight response is maybe not going to get you the results you want?
First of all, police *made* liquor stores a target in 2017/ 2018 by working to rule then enacting an official policy of not responding to shoplifting calls.
We all remember the wave of thefts that happened immediately after.
[Toronto Police will no longer charge first time shoplifters](https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/11/toronto-police-will-no-longer-charge-first-time-shoplifters/) - November 26, 2018
[LCBO thefts have spiralled and now make up nearly half of all shoplifting from Toronto’s most-hit retailers](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/lcbo-thefts-have-spiralled-and-now-make-up-nearly-half-of-all-shoplifting-from-toronto/article_cc5f1d1f-bd94-5705-a043-b92c549fe550.html) - Jan. 11, 2019, a month and a half later
[Thieves treating LCBO like personal ‘ATM machines’: police](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/03/08/thieves-treating-lcbo-like-personal-atm-machines-police/) (non paywall reference)
>"Since at least 2017 we had about 5,000 (LCBO thefts) throughout the city. Last year, in 2018, it went up to about 8,600 so that’s a significant increase,” he said
Secondly,
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/100266
>(3) A police officer shall, before initiating a suspect apprehension pursuit, determine whether in order to protect public safety the immediate need to apprehend an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle or the need to identify the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle outweighs the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (3).
>(4) During a suspect apprehension pursuit, a police officer shall continually reassess the determination made under subsection (3) and shall discontinue the pursuit when the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (4).
>(6) A police officer engaging in a suspect apprehension pursuit for a non-criminal offence shall discontinue the pursuit once the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (6).
>Order to discontinue pursuit
>4. (1) A communications or road supervisor shall order police officers to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit if, in his or her opinion, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (1).
>Application of code of conduct
>12. A police officer does not breach the code of conduct when deciding not to initiate or choosing to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit because he or she has reason to believe that the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 12.
They don't charge first time shoplifters
>... before initiating a suspect apprehension pursuit, determine whether in order to protect public safety the immediate need to apprehend an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle or the need to identify the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle outweighs the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit.
Knives are not cavalry weapons
>the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended
They chased him the wrong way down a highway. They didn't seem to try to stop him or intercept him, they just herded him into oncoming traffic at a high rate of speed
It's like they were waiting for him to crash.
Or just drones now... like they should be able to do this to any car.. just put a drone on it.. they won't even see it or know their followed... and then just spring the trap at a convenient time.
High speed chases are for movies.
They wanted to act like tv hot shots and this is the result. They chased the guy for 20 mins. They knew the danger they were creating. It’s a miracle it took 20 minutes for anything to go wrong. All so they could feel like a badass.
How badass does it feel to kill 2 grandparents and a baby? Hope you’re proud of yourselves.
100% the chase went on as long as it did because the witness was an off-duty cop. I cannot see this response happening if you or I had a knife brandished at us during a robbery at the LCBO.
>I keep saying this - there is almost no excuse for police chases unless someone’s life is in danger. Chasing someone who has robbed a liquor store is just reckless.
They normally don't even arrest people for robbing liquor stores
But, the difference here is that an off duty officer got scared so now they need to murder a person
>With the amount of video evidence they would have caught the perp anyways.
This is the thing that really urks me. The chase did NOT need to happen at all. Let the guy think he got away, nail him with surveillance and video footage later.
That's awful. Imagine just driving home, minding your own business when some fucking a-hole piece of shit comes screaming down in the opposite direction. My sympathies and condolences to the family and infant.
I hope the piece of shit criminal is one of the deceased.
4 dead and a major collision with a semi, and the suspect/s were fleeing in a van.
I highly suspect that the criminals were barely hurt if at all and the family collided with the semi.
do agree with you that these fuckers deserve the absolute worse and then some. we're not really allowed to express or vent what we really wish upon them and so the pent up resentment is left to scar our society.
If you've seen the wreckage you'd know it was instant. That being said, the piece of shit knew he would kill someone when getting on the wrong way on a highway, regardless whether or not being followed by police.
> I highly suspect that the criminals were barely hurt if at all and the family collided with the semi.
>
>
The article says someone in the suspects vehicle died.
Indeed. Scene pictures show a truck that looks like its front end was mangled.. nope, that's the uhaul crumpled up and torn apart, now embedded onto the front of the truck.
>we're not really allowed to express or vent what we really wish upon them
I would never wish harm on anyone, including these suspects. It would be a shame if they crashed into a muddy bog where no one would find them, deep enough that mud is up over the windows so they can't open them or escape. Then, they can enjoy their alcohol in peace.
I hope they get caught and can be paraded around by the justice system and get the book thrown at them. Lock them up as long as our legal system will allow.
I dunno, the rate at which criminals are getting away free due to lack of judges or getting slaps on wrists is making me really lose any faith in our justice system. So I agree with you, I'd rather these criminals crash into swamps or bogs where they can't hurt anyone and slowly sink into darkness trapped.
This is so terrible. Thefts/robberies/stolen vehicles, etc. We are seeing how ordinary citizens can be killed in the cross fire. Stiffer penalties/sentencing needed. I hope this is a wake up call to all. It was a matter of time before some innocent citizens were killed. I want a minimum 15 year sentence for these criminals
EDIT: didn't read the part "Also killed in the crash was the driver of the suspect vehicle. " But still, we are too soft on these petty theives. Need stiffer sentences to deter all kinds of theft including vehicles/stores, etc. Eventually innoncent ppl will die
"But still, we are too soft on these petty theives."
Absolutely, petty thieves should all go to jail for a minimum 5 years. Wake up, the answer is not build more jails, jail everybody, jail jail jail.
This horrific event didn't happen because of a petty thief, it happened because the police engaged a high-speed pursuit which should have been called off long before as it was clear the risk to the public was very high: they chased a criminal--they are supposed to do that, but when things start to become high risk to public--and a van racing to escape police enters the wrong way on a major highway really does fit that bill--they should have called it off. This is why the SIU has been called in--to exonerate the police of any wrongdoing...
> Stiffer penalties/sentencing needed. I hope this is a wake up call to all. It was a matter of time before some innocent citizens were killed. I want a minimum 15 year sentence for these criminals
Large sentences don't actually stop crimes like this from happening, and they don't bring the dead back to life. If you don't want civilians to die, focusing on increasing punishment is the worst way to do it.
To use an obvious example, the death penalty being a punishment doesn't correlate to a decrease in people doing the crime.
Also, how are you planning to jail a corpse for 15 years? The criminal died.
It absolutely stops crimes of repeat criminals because they are in jail not able to commit crimes. Most crimes are from repeat offenders, not first timers.
How do so many people think sentences deter criminal behavior? Do you know what the fine is for jaywalking? Or texting and driving? Or drinking and driving? And yet these are all things that people do, regardless of the punishment because they don't think they'll be caught. The math has to change to affect the rates of crime. People need to believe they will be caught
Yeah, I don't have time travel abilities. Article was updated multiple times including up to 7 hours later with more info. Including the driver of the suspect vehicle dying.
So my question right back to you, is it so hard to read the written vs updated time on that article? Your username definitely fits. lol.
This nearly happened to me a few years ago.
I was driving my kid home from a music lesson as usual, on a county road at dusk, and I saw oncoming headlights but far away and impossible really to tell.
Something in my gut said "get off the fucking road right now", and those intuitions are best followed. I slowed down from 90 km/h as fast as I could and got off far onto the shoulder, just in time for some maniac, or who the fuck knows what, to go blasting by, perfectly in the oncoming lane, my lane, on an empty county road as if he had every right to be there.
I just about shit myself. It was scary as fuck. Only time in my life I've ever called 911 - I didn't want to see anyone else get killed.
If I hadn't gotten off the road on an instinct, you would've read about me, maybe, on here.
Poor family, poor kid man. Rip and condolences.
Since everyone is asking, yes, there is/was dashcam video of someone just barely avoiding the oncoming van, and it was being chased by police suv, on wrong side of traffic.
It looks like this video is now removed from cp24/citynews site. @ work myself so cannot google alternative sources, but it's probably out there on twitter/youtube.
not a dashcam, but taken by someone in the other lane..
[https://youtu.be/cu05840Y15A?si=X2ZR-RA71z87zxIK](https://youtu.be/cu05840Y15A?si=X2ZR-RA71z87zxIK)
Why on earth did that officer also join on the wrong side of the highway and continue to chase someone!?
Pursuits have been called off for much much less, this was a completely unnecessary risk that resulted in innocent lives being lost.
This should be a fireable offense. A few cans of beer aren’t worth the danger of the situation this cop caused. The pursuit should be called off as soon as the thief started driving erratically.
The link needed to play superhero.
This was his big moment. The reason he joined the force. He’s playing Cops and Robbers IRL and driving like he’s playing GTA.
Agree, what a damn tragic situation, the grief the parents of the child and their family are experiencing is unimaginable. Sad that the police thought the reward outweighed the risk of letting this felon go.
Shouldn't be pursuing for any of those. As long as there isn't a risk to life (for example, where the suspects are armed and on their way to hurt someone), who cares. No amount of money is worth putting the public or the officers life on the line. There's a reason there isn't many police chases in Canada.
Edit: since some people are dense. Pursuit policies in Ontario:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/990546#:~:text=A%20communications%20or%20road%20supervisor,motor%20vehicle%20is%20not%20immediately
I mean, in any case, there just shouldn't be a high-speed wrong way pursuit, things there are already dangerous enough without throwing in a pursuit to the mix.
Yea I was just responding to another commenter saying the same (at work so not following live). Obviously there's a magnitude of difference in those crimes, but that doesn't lessen the tragedy of the situation.
I'd rather read 'suspect still at large' instead of this, no matter what was taken.
It’s not super clear from this article, but it seems like the person being chased wasn’t just shoplifting- they pulled a knife and robbed the store.
Like, this was a stickup, not a theft of goods.
That obviously changes things from a legal perspective, but it doesn't really lessen how sad this is. Goods or cash being stolen from the LCBO just isn't worth the trade.
Yeah. I don’t know how to feel about the chase.
It’s horrible that this was the result, but I’m also not sure if I’m of the opinion cops shouldn’t chase armed robbers.
Shoplifting? Yeah fuck it, get them when you get them. But holding up a clerk up with a weapon is serious violent crime and people who do it need to be off the streets asap.
That’s fair; I might be bringing my own baggage into this.
I got stuck up working midnights at a gas station in college and it was 10/10 one of the worst things that ever happened to me.
Unbelievable some of the comments think it's OK for the cops to chase thieves on the wrong way of a hyway. If it was there next of kin that died I bet they would have a different opinion
Firstly if idiot-stick hadn’t robbed the LCBO none of this is happening. However did the police pursue in oncoming traffic? I thought they abandoned pursuit if there is public safety in question.
They weren't chasing the dude over the booze. They were chasing him because he "threatened" the off duty cop that happened to be in the store and intervened. If not for that he would have walked out unchallenged and no one would have died.
They would not have pursued him if he had not threatened the off duty cop who confronted him at the liquor store. Cops don't give a shit about people shop lifting booze.
Wouldn’t have cared if anyone besides a cop was threatened.
This is some cops putting their ego over public safety. If cops were ever held accountable everyone involved in this and anyone that could have ordered it to be called off would be fired. I doubt it will happen though.
Hopefully something gets done in this case though because the actions of the police were overwhelming stupid and reckless.
Police pursued them at high speed after they went the wrong way on the highway? What the fuck??
Police won't even respond to shoplifting calls but threaten an officer with a knife and they'll respond like there's a dead or alive bounty on your head
We are in desperate need of police training reform.
Current officers need to be relicensed and given psych evaluations
I think there is only one police helicopter in the GTA and it belongs to York region lol.
I know police aren't supposed to do high speed pursuits, so I don't think once they started going the wrong way it was going to turn out bettee if they called it off.
What's the old saying? You can't outrun the radio?
YRP appears to have gotten a new Airbus H125 a year or two ago with it's own livery, but [DRPS](https://www.drps.ca/about-us/specialty-units/field-support-patrol-support/) looks to have their own Bell 206 with DRPS livery?
York and Durham have one and Ford recently gave us some millions for TPS to FINALLY get a chopper.
Pretty ridiculous TPS did not have a chopper all these years with their budget.
> You can't outrun the radio?
Only if the vehicle isn't stolen unfortunately. This seems like a damned if you, damned if you don't situation for the police. If you chase them you're pushing them to drive faster in the opposite direction, but if you let them go you're essentially telling everyone that driving a stolen vehicle in the opposite direction of traffic is a get out of jail free card.
I've seen police call off a lot less dangerous pursuits then this, quite literally as he was going on the ramp to the highway the cop chasing him stayed behind probably on his radio to see if he comes up any off ramps. Once the car is traveling the opposite direction on the 401 holy shit I can't believe they kept chasing him. Someone doing that is essentially suicidal at that point and dangerous regardless but it likely wouldn't have ended like this.
Just to clarify, I think calling off the chase is the right call. Some other's here mentioned that apparently the police was already falling back before the crash happened, but I haven't seen the footage myself yet.
Yeah if they chased him the wrong way in Traffic, even in many Red States in the USA this not done by Cops anymore due to it causing so many accidents.
There is not an instant helicopter button. Even if one was in the air, it has to travel to the scene. In that time, someone has to keep eyes on the vehicle to maintain continuity so that the driver can't claim that someone else was in it and then he got in after they got out.
The same would go for drones, the benefit of drones would be that you could have more in the air, more often, to lessen response times.
I hope the robber/wrong way driver died. If they did not, they should spend the rest of their life in prison. A person who is willing to endanger multiple lives is someone who needs to be separated from civil society. Robbery is already very scary, but to drive the wrong way on a highway? 120 km/h means head-on collision has relative velocity of 240 km/h, there is no way someone in a normal passenger vehicle can survive that.
Considering he’d probably get max 3-5 years in prison because of our lenient Justice system, it’s best that trash is ridden from the general public. Watch this guy be a repeat offender.
It would still be around 120km/h equivalent impact against say a brick wall (versus 240km/h).
It’s not simply adding the vectors. Mythbusters did an episode on it a while back.
Either way, yes horrible.
Getting on the highway in Bowmanville and having the accident scene between Brock St and Lakeridge Rd is a few kilometers of driving...I'm guessing around 15. That's quite a distance to travel in the wrong direction and now to hear there might be video of the police chasing him while behind him changes a lot. And this is all over some alcohol from the LCBO? I hear about people getting ripped off on Facebook marketplace and the police never engage in pursuit, but now that it's a government business 🤔
Reading that story makes it worse in my opinion. Old information led me to believe the suspect went right from the LCBO and more or less directly onto the 401 in the wrong direction. Now, to know that an off duty officer started the whole thing.... Did this officer confront the suspect while still in the store - because it's not theft at that point....or was this in the parking lot? And then the instigating officer backs off and lets this guy go? Wow!
Bad judgement and lives were lost. DRPS have their hands tied with this one but they will have to take an L on the highway chase.
We have cameras on those highways, but logistically this was very miscalculated.
It hurts to see a family uprooted because of this. Leaves them with no option but to sue.
We have traffic cameras all along this highway. Police could've gotten those feeds to learn where this guy was going instead of chasing him. They also have drones that they could send up, right? There's also the chopper nearby.
Sad case all around. Hopefully this brings about changes in the way the police forces perform chases.
Why is police chasing a car going down the wrong way over a liquor store robbbery??? These people would be alive if the pigs lowered their egos and stop chasing. I was pretty sure we had strict pursuit laws in ontario.
Man what a terrible tragedy. The only good thing to come out of this awful tragedy is that one of the criminal mutts is dead. All for some stolen booze. Praying for the victims family
It is unbelievable that a cruiser continued to follow them in wrong way traffic. They should have disengaged and asked for Air 1 to follow as soon as the suspect entered the on ramp to reduce the extreme threat to the public.
This never should have happened. There's a cop out there who watched too many Lethal Weapon movies when he was a kid and thought he could apply that to the real world.
Hopefully the police officers involved are raked across the coals for letting a pursuit take place on a highway in peak hour, not to mention the force sued out of their minds by the family of the innocent who died.
Edit:
This video shows no cruisers anywhere near the van prior to the crash.
[https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2024/04/29/witness-video-captures-moments-before-and-after-fatal-hwy-401-wrong-way-driver-crash/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2024/04/29/witness-video-captures-moments-before-and-after-fatal-hwy-401-wrong-way-driver-crash/)
Wrong side:
Top video here:
https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/baby-and-grandparents-killed-in-wrong-way-hwy-401-crash-caused-by-fleeing-driver-siu-1.6867191
Direct link to video:
https://embed.jasperplayer.com/?brand=CP24&destination=cp24_web&language=EN&contentId=2913191
Screenshot:
https://i.imgur.com/x2JMy2M.png
Top video here:
https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/baby-and-grandparents-killed-in-wrong-way-hwy-401-crash-caused-by-fleeing-driver-siu-1.6867191
Direct link to video:
https://embed.jasperplayer.com/?brand=CP24&destination=cp24_web&language=EN&contentId=2913191
Screenshot:
https://i.imgur.com/x2JMy2M.png
Police chases are not worth it
Shootouts are not worth it
We have enough cameras now that everyone is eventually caught. Even if they are not, this was a minor crime.
Action hungry officers should have stood down. Cops need to be held responsible for not making the best rational decision.
Should have left this one go, they would have been arrested anyways. Hold cops responsible!
Why did the police continue to chase the suspect at speed down the wrong way on the highway??? It doesn't take a fortune teller to know that the ending was going to be horrific. F'n morons.
We’re going to find out that this piece of garbage that caused all this tragedy was probably out on bail for several previous offenses. I don’t know this but I suspect this would be true. If it is then I’d like to publicly shame the judge that let them go.
Why not have directional spikes on the highway ramps? If entering the right way, they go down as you drive over them, if wrong way, they tear all 4 of your tires so you can’t drive any further? Something has to be done since more and more incompetent idiots end up on wrong way of the highway somehow lately
I agree that minimizing a high speed chase if the circumstances of said chase are more likely to increase the risk to life, especially of the uninvolved parties, makes some sense to my little brain. Saying that NOT chasing this perpetrator would have ENSURED no loss of life to the uninvolved is an unintelligent statement.
I hope we learn from this and I am incredibly sad for the families of those who lost their lives though my grief does nothing for them.
We need a chronological breakdown of this. Here is what I found
* Suspect robs a liquor store. An off duty officer tries to intervene, but backs off when the suspect pulls out a knife. I'm assuming the off duty officer doesn't have their gun with them.
* Police starts chasing this guy who eventually starts driving on the wrong side of the 401.
* Police SUV starts chasing this dude on the wrong side of the highway.
* I'm no cop, but it does seem reasonable that you keep chasing this guy at first because you don't know what the fuck he's gonna do if you stop chasing him. After all he's doing \~160 on the wrong side of the road.
* From what I understand, they eventually **stop** chasing him on the wrong side and instead follow him from the right side of the highway. Either because back up units arrived or because they got a helicopter flying.
* He causes an accident, killing 3 innocent people.
Jesus tap dancing Christ! This would NOT have happened if not for the off-duty cop intervening when he witnessed the heist. Normally with LCBO robberies the cops don't even show up, and they certainly would not have chased the robber. This all boils down to them getting into a high speed chase because the dude pissed off one of their brothers. They are just as responsible for the death of those 3 innocent people as the shop lifter.
1 three letter word that starts to ask so many questions that will never be answered.
WHY
The one most important question of all that must be answered but never will be truthfully;
"Why did the police follow him onto the wrong side of the highway, they were 100 % capable of following from the proper flow of traffic, instead they chose to put everyone's life in danger that they passed.
That's right, every vehicle that the van passed was a potential accident waiting to happen, with the police chasing right behind him he was weaving from lane to lane.
If they had not been behind him, this entire incident could of had a lot different outcome.
4 deaths is 4 too many.
And there was no need for any 1 of them to happen.
\*\*\*Just a personal thought of a memory from something similar years ago.
I was under the impression that wrong way chases by all forces was outlawed in the province of Ontario on major highways because of an incident that killed many people when a tanker hauling fuel blew up after being hit by a vehicle involved in a wrong way chase.\*\*\*
Thid was all on the police they should have let him go, this was a stupid play
and as always innocent people die
the moment he jumped on the 401 in the opposite direction they should have let him go
this is fucking stupid, fkn pure cowboy dumb shit
How fucking awful.
I would be really surprised if the parents marriage will survive this. Either the husband or wife lost their parents AND baby yesterday.
So sad.
I hope they have a strong support network. ❤️
The perp is dead.
The cops chased the perp down the 401 going the wrong way.
The cops should not be chasing anyone going the wrong way on a major highway.
The cops won't even get a slap on the wrist.
The police are in a Catch-22 situation. If they chase, unthinkable things like this can happen. If they don't chase, every criminal will run. Look at the LCBO example, they have a policy of non-intervention and now it is common to see people walk in, fill duffel bags and walk out.
Helicopters are a great tool, but they need to have eyes on the suspect vehicle before the police cars lose sight. It is like the chain of custody for evidence, once continuous sight of the suspect vehicle is lost, it cannot be proved concusively that the driver apprehended in the vehicle later was the same one at the wheel at the time of the crime.
There is no good answer. One point to consider is that the actions of this criminal, who had just committed a robbery, show a complete disregard for the lives and safety of other people. It is highly likely that he would have caused deaths and/or severe injuries at some point, this just moved the timeline up.
Condolences to all involved.
*edit: I just read that it was an LCBO theft. It makes my example more pertinent and the situation sadder.*
Where do you draw the line? Kidnapped child, let them run? Murder suspect, let them run? Violent armed robbery, let them run?
If people know the police cannot chase, they will run for the pettiest crap. All it takes is reasonable doubt that it may not have been you in the car and there is no conviction.
Exactly. If criminals know they can get away with any crime just by hopping in a car then we are truly fucked. Case in point, we now have dudes robbing liquor stores and using stolen u-haul vans to get away. ALL the blame lays on the criminal. Not the police.
To anybody else wondering, the police trailing the van in the oncoming lanes with lights and sirens going is done to get the attention of approaching vehicles. People slow down, become more aware when they see police lights. The odd thing about the video tho, is the van is seen traveling on the shoulder then the accident 30 seconds later, its in the furthest left lane.
My condolences to the innocent family who lost loved ones. You have my deepest sympathy.
I cannot for the life of me understand this. Witness said they were zig zagging in and out of lanes, while drivign the wrong way, and that there were probably 10-12 police cars in chase, many on the wrong side. FOR WHAT Was he carrying a bomb?? What on earth would make them decide to take on this chase at the risk of so many people's lives?
What were the cops thinking engaging in a chase the wrong way down the 401 all for some liquor bottles. They should have stopped as soon as the guy got on the ramp.
this is horribly devastating. screw the criminal behind the wheel and the police. chasing a crazy person that is driving the wrong way in traffic on a highway is asinine and completely senseless - wow our police really have no clue how to police
I didn’t realize the police were also allowed to drive the opposite way on the highway if they’re chasing a suspect - how is this allowed? This feels so dangerous
My condolences to the family and friends of all of those involved.
Now what the fuck were the police thinking to pursue a liquor store robber at high speeds in the wrong direction on the 401. The absolute incompetence of our police force shows its ugly face every day, and now a family is dead because a combination of some asshole, and a police officer who thought they thought they could get back a few bottles of booze.
Jennifer neville lake lost her 3 kids and dad when marco muzzo hit them while drunk as a skunk. The kids father. Her husband, commits suicide on father's day, unable to bear the grief any longer.
Ciarasullo family lost the mom and 3 daughters when the POS was also running from the cops and hit them
Jax and Anaya Chaudhary were killed while.playong in their drive way in Vaughan when a 16 year old was doing 90km down a residential street, hitting them.
Every single one was 100% avoidable because of some Pos like this.
Absolutely devastating.
Isn’t the LCBO government… so that moron robbed the government.
Hence the Grand theft auto ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ response..
I swear real life isn’t real anymore. 🤦
RIP to those innocent who passed and the families affected 😢
A wrong way driver puts so many lives in danger. Unfortunately, the threat wasn't stopped in time to avoid this tragic outcome. This will be hard for the families and anyone involved including the officers.
Imagine surviving your whole life, growing and taking care of your children - seeing them begin to raise their own children.... then bam. You're just dead. Your families lives are ruined forever by some fucking asshole... this makes me so angry.
Like Jennifer Neville-Lake can imagine? Whose entire family was killed by MURDEROUS MARCO MUZZO.
There was also that accident in Brampton a little while back that killed a man’s wife and all 3 of his kids. Left him completely alone.
That story makes me sick every time I’m reminded of it. Can’t imagine what the husband is going through after losing his beautiful wife and daughters. So heartbreaking
My best friend died like this with his brother and mother in a car collision. He was grade 9 and his brother was in grade 10 who happened to be my brother's best friend. Our families were really close and our mothers were very close friends. The father was broken afterwards and was never the same. He couldn't bear to look at me, my brother or my mother because he kept thinking of them. I finally spoke to him again when I was in my 30s. He still had so much sadness in his eyes when we spoke. That day ruined this man for the rest of his life. He eventually remarried to another widower but he was never truly happy again.
I think about this man from time to time and truly hope he's ok
He's not.
I remember the sister during the court case, as he didn't make it, saying he was a shell of his former self. That someone had to read his victim impact statement, he was so devastated to attend. I think of that family too much. Coming home from a morning of swim at their grandparents- I can't imagine.
He is definitely not ok
How does one go on after that? I have no idea ...
My dad's employee/co worker lost two of his kids within a few years. I know one of them was drown in a little pool/reservoir they had in front of their house while going under renovation. My dad said he was never the same. Just thinking about it is brutal, going through it? Must be worse than biblical and Islam's hell. I hope the parents of this infant have enough family support.
I think of this one often. The killer went on a rampage with his car in my subdivision the day before he killed that family.
I remember this. The clip of people physically trying to stop him at an intersection
Adding to the complete devastation, not only did her marriage not survive over the years following the loss of their children, Mr. Neville-Lake took his own life two years ago.
Ugh god that poor woman, does she have support? Muzzo is such a disgusting individual, and his family is complicit
That Muzzo character, along with his whole family (!), created a huge ripple effect from their rich, entitled, self centred, self preserving lifestyle.
Makes me sick seeing that name on the hospital in vaugahan
The drunk driving piece of shit Marco Muzzo?
... [Muzzo was already a problematic drunk driver before the Nevile-Lake crash](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/accused-in-vaughan-crash-marco-muzzo-has-history-of-provincial-offences/article_1a47ada1-386d-53a0-b2d2-42de4b0815e3.html)
This deadly car crash reminded me of that car crash. Both had alcohol involved.
Life can be so unfair.
I’d like to know why a *liquor store robbery* necessitated authorization of a high speed police chase that killed a baby and grandparents. Police departments started shifting away from police chases in the 90s because chases kept killing innocent bystanders. Some cities have a no pursuit policy for theft. The police can’t control everything, but this was a decision they had complete control over and it led to the death of four people. this is a pretty big fuck up
Because the thief "threatened" that off duty cop. If not for that they would not have given a rat's ass about the robbery.
Yeah I'm glad someone's saying this. Very sad and reckless.
I really hope these police officers are held accountable.
Thank you. While the person who led the chase was responsible, it's really important that we don't ignore the ACAB of this. This chase was not worth the cost.
The police escalated a situation the lcbo chose to de-escalate for good reason. Pretty obvious what’s happened here.
Absolutely unacceptable for police to chase a car in the on-coming lane of a highway in LIVE traffic. Absolute tragedy that could have possibly been avoided if they used their brains
At this point, which political party is ready to update our judiciary. It's come lose at so many fronts....
Yes and Yes! Things have gotten out of control! RIP to those innocent people and infant!
And that person will walk away virtually Scott free
Grandparents and an infant. Someone’s parents and their own baby. *God*. I can’t even begin to imagine what that conversation was like. And all because of some degenerate.
My heart hurts so bad for the parents of the baby and kids of the grandparents.
I can’t fathom that level of grief.
Insane. My heart physically aches just thinking about this. I wish there was something we could do to support the parents (open to suggestions…)
Getting them justice could be one
I don’t mean to be obtuse, genuine question… how? This is one of those times I’d fully understand vigilantism, I’m just at a total loss for words and feelings about this.
My point was that’s the only thing we can do. Vigilantism and activism here could help May be. Most of take these things lying down. It could have been anyone’s family here.
Ah, sorry, I get you. It’s a terrible situation. I hope all is well with you and your loved ones, and anyone else who reads this. ❤️
All because cops felt the need to chase someone who stole a few dollars and liquor The robbery and the chase are separate events and should not be conflated. With the amount of video evidence they would have caught the perp anyways.
I keep saying this - there is almost no excuse for police chases unless someone’s life is in danger. Chasing someone who has robbed a liquor store is just reckless. Take the license plate, get the security video, and catch the guy later. Yes the dude is also at fault, but is it really asking that much for police to not unnecessarily escalate the situation and put the public in danger over a $30 bottle of liquor?
100 percent This is a very educated response. No one is saying the robber isn't to blame. We are only saying that chasing the robber resulting in innocent people dying isn't the answer Nothing can bring that baby back. Their parents lives are ruined. A child that had unlimited potential will not see the light of day again. Simply put, the policy of not chasing must be inacted, unless an immediate life is in danger
The cops deserve a disproportionate amount of the blame. Did we learn nothing recently about how triggering a fight or flight response is maybe not going to get you the results you want? First of all, police *made* liquor stores a target in 2017/ 2018 by working to rule then enacting an official policy of not responding to shoplifting calls. We all remember the wave of thefts that happened immediately after. [Toronto Police will no longer charge first time shoplifters](https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/11/toronto-police-will-no-longer-charge-first-time-shoplifters/) - November 26, 2018 [LCBO thefts have spiralled and now make up nearly half of all shoplifting from Toronto’s most-hit retailers](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/lcbo-thefts-have-spiralled-and-now-make-up-nearly-half-of-all-shoplifting-from-toronto/article_cc5f1d1f-bd94-5705-a043-b92c549fe550.html) - Jan. 11, 2019, a month and a half later [Thieves treating LCBO like personal ‘ATM machines’: police](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/03/08/thieves-treating-lcbo-like-personal-atm-machines-police/) (non paywall reference) >"Since at least 2017 we had about 5,000 (LCBO thefts) throughout the city. Last year, in 2018, it went up to about 8,600 so that’s a significant increase,” he said Secondly, https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/100266 >(3) A police officer shall, before initiating a suspect apprehension pursuit, determine whether in order to protect public safety the immediate need to apprehend an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle or the need to identify the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle outweighs the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (3). >(4) During a suspect apprehension pursuit, a police officer shall continually reassess the determination made under subsection (3) and shall discontinue the pursuit when the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (4). >(6) A police officer engaging in a suspect apprehension pursuit for a non-criminal offence shall discontinue the pursuit once the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 2 (6). >Order to discontinue pursuit >4. (1) A communications or road supervisor shall order police officers to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit if, in his or her opinion, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (1). >Application of code of conduct >12. A police officer does not breach the code of conduct when deciding not to initiate or choosing to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit because he or she has reason to believe that the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 12. They don't charge first time shoplifters >... before initiating a suspect apprehension pursuit, determine whether in order to protect public safety the immediate need to apprehend an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle or the need to identify the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle outweighs the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit. Knives are not cavalry weapons >the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended They chased him the wrong way down a highway. They didn't seem to try to stop him or intercept him, they just herded him into oncoming traffic at a high rate of speed It's like they were waiting for him to crash.
They could have also dispatched the chopper and had it follow. Durham police have nothing better to do so this is the result of that
Or just drones now... like they should be able to do this to any car.. just put a drone on it.. they won't even see it or know their followed... and then just spring the trap at a convenient time. High speed chases are for movies.
They wanted to act like tv hot shots and this is the result. They chased the guy for 20 mins. They knew the danger they were creating. It’s a miracle it took 20 minutes for anything to go wrong. All so they could feel like a badass. How badass does it feel to kill 2 grandparents and a baby? Hope you’re proud of yourselves.
100% the chase went on as long as it did because the witness was an off-duty cop. I cannot see this response happening if you or I had a knife brandished at us during a robbery at the LCBO.
Lmao. Response would be, "Please dial the non emergency number." or "Visit the closest police station and file a report."
Seems like this would be the perfect use for drone tech.
>I keep saying this - there is almost no excuse for police chases unless someone’s life is in danger. Chasing someone who has robbed a liquor store is just reckless. They normally don't even arrest people for robbing liquor stores But, the difference here is that an off duty officer got scared so now they need to murder a person
Wow, wtf, this deadly accident was caused over a few bottles of alcohol. Fuck this world seriously.
I strongly agree!
>With the amount of video evidence they would have caught the perp anyways. This is the thing that really urks me. The chase did NOT need to happen at all. Let the guy think he got away, nail him with surveillance and video footage later.
That's awful. Imagine just driving home, minding your own business when some fucking a-hole piece of shit comes screaming down in the opposite direction. My sympathies and condolences to the family and infant. I hope the piece of shit criminal is one of the deceased.
4 dead and a major collision with a semi, and the suspect/s were fleeing in a van. I highly suspect that the criminals were barely hurt if at all and the family collided with the semi. do agree with you that these fuckers deserve the absolute worse and then some. we're not really allowed to express or vent what we really wish upon them and so the pent up resentment is left to scar our society.
> The driver of the suspect vehicle also died. Hope it wasn't too quick... What a horrible tragedy for the family in the other vehicle.
If you've seen the wreckage you'd know it was instant. That being said, the piece of shit knew he would kill someone when getting on the wrong way on a highway, regardless whether or not being followed by police.
> I highly suspect that the criminals were barely hurt if at all and the family collided with the semi. > > The article says someone in the suspects vehicle died.
Pretty sure the U-Haul van they were driving is no more.
Indeed. Scene pictures show a truck that looks like its front end was mangled.. nope, that's the uhaul crumpled up and torn apart, now embedded onto the front of the truck.
160km/h + 100km/h = 270km/h to zero. No hope.
Dude, did you see the van??
>we're not really allowed to express or vent what we really wish upon them I would never wish harm on anyone, including these suspects. It would be a shame if they crashed into a muddy bog where no one would find them, deep enough that mud is up over the windows so they can't open them or escape. Then, they can enjoy their alcohol in peace. I hope they get caught and can be paraded around by the justice system and get the book thrown at them. Lock them up as long as our legal system will allow.
I dunno, the rate at which criminals are getting away free due to lack of judges or getting slaps on wrists is making me really lose any faith in our justice system. So I agree with you, I'd rather these criminals crash into swamps or bogs where they can't hurt anyone and slowly sink into darkness trapped.
This is so terrible. Thefts/robberies/stolen vehicles, etc. We are seeing how ordinary citizens can be killed in the cross fire. Stiffer penalties/sentencing needed. I hope this is a wake up call to all. It was a matter of time before some innocent citizens were killed. I want a minimum 15 year sentence for these criminals EDIT: didn't read the part "Also killed in the crash was the driver of the suspect vehicle. " But still, we are too soft on these petty theives. Need stiffer sentences to deter all kinds of theft including vehicles/stores, etc. Eventually innoncent ppl will die
"But still, we are too soft on these petty theives." Absolutely, petty thieves should all go to jail for a minimum 5 years. Wake up, the answer is not build more jails, jail everybody, jail jail jail. This horrific event didn't happen because of a petty thief, it happened because the police engaged a high-speed pursuit which should have been called off long before as it was clear the risk to the public was very high: they chased a criminal--they are supposed to do that, but when things start to become high risk to public--and a van racing to escape police enters the wrong way on a major highway really does fit that bill--they should have called it off. This is why the SIU has been called in--to exonerate the police of any wrongdoing...
> Stiffer penalties/sentencing needed. I hope this is a wake up call to all. It was a matter of time before some innocent citizens were killed. I want a minimum 15 year sentence for these criminals Large sentences don't actually stop crimes like this from happening, and they don't bring the dead back to life. If you don't want civilians to die, focusing on increasing punishment is the worst way to do it. To use an obvious example, the death penalty being a punishment doesn't correlate to a decrease in people doing the crime. Also, how are you planning to jail a corpse for 15 years? The criminal died.
If you know this, then you also know that it's not the severity but the likelihood of punishment. People (we) drive like punishment is a fiction.
Almost like the police doing their actual jobs would help
It absolutely stops crimes of repeat criminals because they are in jail not able to commit crimes. Most crimes are from repeat offenders, not first timers.
Well they won't be doing much during the prison sentence, so it stops that individual for that time period.
I think keeping people who are known to do crimes off the streets is an under-appreciated public safety aspect of prison sentences
What's your solution then? Continue to let them off on bail?
How do so many people think sentences deter criminal behavior? Do you know what the fine is for jaywalking? Or texting and driving? Or drinking and driving? And yet these are all things that people do, regardless of the punishment because they don't think they'll be caught. The math has to change to affect the rates of crime. People need to believe they will be caught
> I hope the piece of shit criminal is one of the deceased. Is it really so hard to click on the link and read the first paragraph?
That was added in an update, it wasn't in the original version they ran (which you can see further down).
Yeah, I don't have time travel abilities. Article was updated multiple times including up to 7 hours later with more info. Including the driver of the suspect vehicle dying. So my question right back to you, is it so hard to read the written vs updated time on that article? Your username definitely fits. lol.
This nearly happened to me a few years ago. I was driving my kid home from a music lesson as usual, on a county road at dusk, and I saw oncoming headlights but far away and impossible really to tell. Something in my gut said "get off the fucking road right now", and those intuitions are best followed. I slowed down from 90 km/h as fast as I could and got off far onto the shoulder, just in time for some maniac, or who the fuck knows what, to go blasting by, perfectly in the oncoming lane, my lane, on an empty county road as if he had every right to be there. I just about shit myself. It was scary as fuck. Only time in my life I've ever called 911 - I didn't want to see anyone else get killed. If I hadn't gotten off the road on an instinct, you would've read about me, maybe, on here. Poor family, poor kid man. Rip and condolences.
Since everyone is asking, yes, there is/was dashcam video of someone just barely avoiding the oncoming van, and it was being chased by police suv, on wrong side of traffic. It looks like this video is now removed from cp24/citynews site. @ work myself so cannot google alternative sources, but it's probably out there on twitter/youtube.
not a dashcam, but taken by someone in the other lane.. [https://youtu.be/cu05840Y15A?si=X2ZR-RA71z87zxIK](https://youtu.be/cu05840Y15A?si=X2ZR-RA71z87zxIK)
The wreckage looks horrible
Dashcam video is here on CP24 site: https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/video-captures-deadly-wrong-way-police-chase-on-highway-401-in-ontario-1.6867507
Why on earth did that officer also join on the wrong side of the highway and continue to chase someone!? Pursuits have been called off for much much less, this was a completely unnecessary risk that resulted in innocent lives being lost.
This should be a fireable offense. A few cans of beer aren’t worth the danger of the situation this cop caused. The pursuit should be called off as soon as the thief started driving erratically.
Fireable? Crim Neg causing death is jail time!
Not if you are a 🐷
Yeah but how else are these meatheads going to feel like hero badasses?
The link needed to play superhero. This was his big moment. The reason he joined the force. He’s playing Cops and Robbers IRL and driving like he’s playing GTA.
Agree, what a damn tragic situation, the grief the parents of the child and their family are experiencing is unimaginable. Sad that the police thought the reward outweighed the risk of letting this felon go.
yep, this is it.
That officer needs to be tried for manslaughter. This is insane. If you don't chase that van so much of the risk is mitigated.
Cops unfortunately largely have qualified immunity. This officer will walk away with little to no consequences
Apparently they stole alcohol. This chase should have been called off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQhYhBD7h5I
All over an LCBO theft. Tragic. The infant passing is an incredible gut punch. Ugh.
Not a bank, or a jewelry store. A fucking liquor store.
Shouldn't be pursuing for any of those. As long as there isn't a risk to life (for example, where the suspects are armed and on their way to hurt someone), who cares. No amount of money is worth putting the public or the officers life on the line. There's a reason there isn't many police chases in Canada. Edit: since some people are dense. Pursuit policies in Ontario: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/990546#:~:text=A%20communications%20or%20road%20supervisor,motor%20vehicle%20is%20not%20immediately
I mean, in any case, there just shouldn't be a high-speed wrong way pursuit, things there are already dangerous enough without throwing in a pursuit to the mix.
FFS the LCBO loss prevention buffer is like the biggest in Canada. They can 100% afford the loss.
That's what's killing me the most here. 3 innocent lives lost over a few hundred dollars of booze is tragic and so goddamn unnecessary.
It sounds like a violent robbery, not shoplifting, but info is still sketchy
Yea I was just responding to another commenter saying the same (at work so not following live). Obviously there's a magnitude of difference in those crimes, but that doesn't lessen the tragedy of the situation. I'd rather read 'suspect still at large' instead of this, no matter what was taken.
It’s not super clear from this article, but it seems like the person being chased wasn’t just shoplifting- they pulled a knife and robbed the store. Like, this was a stickup, not a theft of goods.
That obviously changes things from a legal perspective, but it doesn't really lessen how sad this is. Goods or cash being stolen from the LCBO just isn't worth the trade.
Yeah. I don’t know how to feel about the chase. It’s horrible that this was the result, but I’m also not sure if I’m of the opinion cops shouldn’t chase armed robbers. Shoplifting? Yeah fuck it, get them when you get them. But holding up a clerk up with a weapon is serious violent crime and people who do it need to be off the streets asap.
You'd be more sure if it was your parents and child that were killed. Others were seriously injured. Completely innocent. The chase was reckless.
That’s fair; I might be bringing my own baggage into this. I got stuck up working midnights at a gas station in college and it was 10/10 one of the worst things that ever happened to me.
Unbelievable some of the comments think it's OK for the cops to chase thieves on the wrong way of a hyway. If it was there next of kin that died I bet they would have a different opinion
All three of these things are unimportant to chase after.
Not a theft, a robbery. That’s a bit more serious.
Firstly if idiot-stick hadn’t robbed the LCBO none of this is happening. However did the police pursue in oncoming traffic? I thought they abandoned pursuit if there is public safety in question.
the star reported at least 6 cop vehicles pursued in oncoming traffic
young cops that wanted some action…
There is footage of a Durham police car going the wrong way on the 401 behind the U-Haul van
[удалено]
All I can say is wow. I have no words for how reckless this is.
So cops tell us to let people rob our cars from our homes, but chase after a dude for some booze?
They weren't chasing the dude over the booze. They were chasing him because he "threatened" the off duty cop that happened to be in the store and intervened. If not for that he would have walked out unchallenged and no one would have died.
No. It was the pursuit down the wrong side of the highway that killed people. Not a threat.
They would not have pursued him if he had not threatened the off duty cop who confronted him at the liquor store. Cops don't give a shit about people shop lifting booze.
Wouldn’t have cared if anyone besides a cop was threatened. This is some cops putting their ego over public safety. If cops were ever held accountable everyone involved in this and anyone that could have ordered it to be called off would be fired. I doubt it will happen though. Hopefully something gets done in this case though because the actions of the police were overwhelming stupid and reckless.
Police pursued them at high speed after they went the wrong way on the highway? What the fuck?? Police won't even respond to shoplifting calls but threaten an officer with a knife and they'll respond like there's a dead or alive bounty on your head We are in desperate need of police training reform. Current officers need to be relicensed and given psych evaluations
Fuck. Looks like a car got sandwiched between the wrong way UHaul and Semi. Why can’t they chase these cars with helicopters instead?
I think there is only one police helicopter in the GTA and it belongs to York region lol. I know police aren't supposed to do high speed pursuits, so I don't think once they started going the wrong way it was going to turn out bettee if they called it off. What's the old saying? You can't outrun the radio?
Durham has a helicopter, Air One. I imagine they were likely maintaining pursuit until it could get airborne.
Its actually YRP's and it lives in Durham now because Buttonville airport where it used to live is closed now.
Yrp retired air one and sold it to durham, they have air2 now. That thing puts in work
YRP appears to have gotten a new Airbus H125 a year or two ago with it's own livery, but [DRPS](https://www.drps.ca/about-us/specialty-units/field-support-patrol-support/) looks to have their own Bell 206 with DRPS livery?
York and Durham have one and Ford recently gave us some millions for TPS to FINALLY get a chopper. Pretty ridiculous TPS did not have a chopper all these years with their budget.
TPS is too busy paying for crooked suspended officers and can't afford a helicopter.
At $2k+ per hour for fuel, this year alone the police could have kept a helicopter in the air for 650 hours.
> You can't outrun the radio? Only if the vehicle isn't stolen unfortunately. This seems like a damned if you, damned if you don't situation for the police. If you chase them you're pushing them to drive faster in the opposite direction, but if you let them go you're essentially telling everyone that driving a stolen vehicle in the opposite direction of traffic is a get out of jail free card.
I've seen police call off a lot less dangerous pursuits then this, quite literally as he was going on the ramp to the highway the cop chasing him stayed behind probably on his radio to see if he comes up any off ramps. Once the car is traveling the opposite direction on the 401 holy shit I can't believe they kept chasing him. Someone doing that is essentially suicidal at that point and dangerous regardless but it likely wouldn't have ended like this.
Just to clarify, I think calling off the chase is the right call. Some other's here mentioned that apparently the police was already falling back before the crash happened, but I haven't seen the footage myself yet.
Yeah if they chased him the wrong way in Traffic, even in many Red States in the USA this not done by Cops anymore due to it causing so many accidents.
I'd rather people get away with stealing booze than babies dying.
There is not an instant helicopter button. Even if one was in the air, it has to travel to the scene. In that time, someone has to keep eyes on the vehicle to maintain continuity so that the driver can't claim that someone else was in it and then he got in after they got out. The same would go for drones, the benefit of drones would be that you could have more in the air, more often, to lessen response times.
I hope the robber/wrong way driver died. If they did not, they should spend the rest of their life in prison. A person who is willing to endanger multiple lives is someone who needs to be separated from civil society. Robbery is already very scary, but to drive the wrong way on a highway? 120 km/h means head-on collision has relative velocity of 240 km/h, there is no way someone in a normal passenger vehicle can survive that.
Updated article says they did but to be honest that seems like getting off easy in this case.
Considering he’d probably get max 3-5 years in prison because of our lenient Justice system, it’s best that trash is ridden from the general public. Watch this guy be a repeat offender.
It would still be around 120km/h equivalent impact against say a brick wall (versus 240km/h). It’s not simply adding the vectors. Mythbusters did an episode on it a while back. Either way, yes horrible.
Getting on the highway in Bowmanville and having the accident scene between Brock St and Lakeridge Rd is a few kilometers of driving...I'm guessing around 15. That's quite a distance to travel in the wrong direction and now to hear there might be video of the police chasing him while behind him changes a lot. And this is all over some alcohol from the LCBO? I hear about people getting ripped off on Facebook marketplace and the police never engage in pursuit, but now that it's a government business 🤔
The suspect vehicle got on the 401 at Stevenson
Reading that story makes it worse in my opinion. Old information led me to believe the suspect went right from the LCBO and more or less directly onto the 401 in the wrong direction. Now, to know that an off duty officer started the whole thing.... Did this officer confront the suspect while still in the store - because it's not theft at that point....or was this in the parking lot? And then the instigating officer backs off and lets this guy go? Wow!
A lot of unanswered questions for sure
Bad judgement and lives were lost. DRPS have their hands tied with this one but they will have to take an L on the highway chase. We have cameras on those highways, but logistically this was very miscalculated. It hurts to see a family uprooted because of this. Leaves them with no option but to sue.
We have traffic cameras all along this highway. Police could've gotten those feeds to learn where this guy was going instead of chasing him. They also have drones that they could send up, right? There's also the chopper nearby. Sad case all around. Hopefully this brings about changes in the way the police forces perform chases.
Why is police chasing a car going down the wrong way over a liquor store robbbery??? These people would be alive if the pigs lowered their egos and stop chasing. I was pretty sure we had strict pursuit laws in ontario.
Man what a terrible tragedy. The only good thing to come out of this awful tragedy is that one of the criminal mutts is dead. All for some stolen booze. Praying for the victims family
It is unbelievable that a cruiser continued to follow them in wrong way traffic. They should have disengaged and asked for Air 1 to follow as soon as the suspect entered the on ramp to reduce the extreme threat to the public. This never should have happened. There's a cop out there who watched too many Lethal Weapon movies when he was a kid and thought he could apply that to the real world.
Hopefully the police officers involved are raked across the coals for letting a pursuit take place on a highway in peak hour, not to mention the force sued out of their minds by the family of the innocent who died.
the OPP literally shot at and murdered a baby a couple of years ago and were acquitted, nothing is going to happen here
I suppose that’s why it’s the SIU and not just the police
Edit: This video shows no cruisers anywhere near the van prior to the crash. [https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2024/04/29/witness-video-captures-moments-before-and-after-fatal-hwy-401-wrong-way-driver-crash/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2024/04/29/witness-video-captures-moments-before-and-after-fatal-hwy-401-wrong-way-driver-crash/)
I saw a video taken by a passenger and you can see a cop with lights on following from the correct side
Wrong side: Top video here: https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/baby-and-grandparents-killed-in-wrong-way-hwy-401-crash-caused-by-fleeing-driver-siu-1.6867191 Direct link to video: https://embed.jasperplayer.com/?brand=CP24&destination=cp24_web&language=EN&contentId=2913191 Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/x2JMy2M.png
There’s another video showing the cops still chasing.
Top video here: https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/baby-and-grandparents-killed-in-wrong-way-hwy-401-crash-caused-by-fleeing-driver-siu-1.6867191 Direct link to video: https://embed.jasperplayer.com/?brand=CP24&destination=cp24_web&language=EN&contentId=2913191 Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/x2JMy2M.png
Police chases are not worth it Shootouts are not worth it We have enough cameras now that everyone is eventually caught. Even if they are not, this was a minor crime. Action hungry officers should have stood down. Cops need to be held responsible for not making the best rational decision. Should have left this one go, they would have been arrested anyways. Hold cops responsible!
Why did the police continue to chase the suspect at speed down the wrong way on the highway??? It doesn't take a fortune teller to know that the ending was going to be horrific. F'n morons.
We’re going to find out that this piece of garbage that caused all this tragedy was probably out on bail for several previous offenses. I don’t know this but I suspect this would be true. If it is then I’d like to publicly shame the judge that let them go.
You are probably right, Canadas legal system has become a complete joke. Look what it costs.
Why not have directional spikes on the highway ramps? If entering the right way, they go down as you drive over them, if wrong way, they tear all 4 of your tires so you can’t drive any further? Something has to be done since more and more incompetent idiots end up on wrong way of the highway somehow lately
This would screw over emergency vehicles more often than anyone else.
People would just go offroad at the spike then back o the highway
Most of the on ramps have barriers on each side
This is why I respect vigilante dude from last time. No one stepped in, people died anyway.
I agree that minimizing a high speed chase if the circumstances of said chase are more likely to increase the risk to life, especially of the uninvolved parties, makes some sense to my little brain. Saying that NOT chasing this perpetrator would have ENSURED no loss of life to the uninvolved is an unintelligent statement. I hope we learn from this and I am incredibly sad for the families of those who lost their lives though my grief does nothing for them.
We need a chronological breakdown of this. Here is what I found * Suspect robs a liquor store. An off duty officer tries to intervene, but backs off when the suspect pulls out a knife. I'm assuming the off duty officer doesn't have their gun with them. * Police starts chasing this guy who eventually starts driving on the wrong side of the 401. * Police SUV starts chasing this dude on the wrong side of the highway. * I'm no cop, but it does seem reasonable that you keep chasing this guy at first because you don't know what the fuck he's gonna do if you stop chasing him. After all he's doing \~160 on the wrong side of the road. * From what I understand, they eventually **stop** chasing him on the wrong side and instead follow him from the right side of the highway. Either because back up units arrived or because they got a helicopter flying. * He causes an accident, killing 3 innocent people.
Jesus tap dancing Christ! This would NOT have happened if not for the off-duty cop intervening when he witnessed the heist. Normally with LCBO robberies the cops don't even show up, and they certainly would not have chased the robber. This all boils down to them getting into a high speed chase because the dude pissed off one of their brothers. They are just as responsible for the death of those 3 innocent people as the shop lifter.
Unnecessary police chase.
1 three letter word that starts to ask so many questions that will never be answered. WHY The one most important question of all that must be answered but never will be truthfully; "Why did the police follow him onto the wrong side of the highway, they were 100 % capable of following from the proper flow of traffic, instead they chose to put everyone's life in danger that they passed. That's right, every vehicle that the van passed was a potential accident waiting to happen, with the police chasing right behind him he was weaving from lane to lane. If they had not been behind him, this entire incident could of had a lot different outcome. 4 deaths is 4 too many. And there was no need for any 1 of them to happen. \*\*\*Just a personal thought of a memory from something similar years ago. I was under the impression that wrong way chases by all forces was outlawed in the province of Ontario on major highways because of an incident that killed many people when a tanker hauling fuel blew up after being hit by a vehicle involved in a wrong way chase.\*\*\*
Thid was all on the police they should have let him go, this was a stupid play and as always innocent people die the moment he jumped on the 401 in the opposite direction they should have let him go this is fucking stupid, fkn pure cowboy dumb shit
How fucking awful. I would be really surprised if the parents marriage will survive this. Either the husband or wife lost their parents AND baby yesterday. So sad. I hope they have a strong support network. ❤️
Maybe it will if they have other kids but damn this is a horrible situation and outcome all around.. many lives ruined.
The perp is dead. The cops chased the perp down the 401 going the wrong way. The cops should not be chasing anyone going the wrong way on a major highway. The cops won't even get a slap on the wrist.
I wonder if it would have ended this way if the police were not chasing them down on the wrong side of the damn road.
Thank our police officers. I swear they were given orders to not pursue for this exact reason.
[удалено]
More deaths caused by unnecessary police chases.
Fire the cops involved.
The police are in a Catch-22 situation. If they chase, unthinkable things like this can happen. If they don't chase, every criminal will run. Look at the LCBO example, they have a policy of non-intervention and now it is common to see people walk in, fill duffel bags and walk out. Helicopters are a great tool, but they need to have eyes on the suspect vehicle before the police cars lose sight. It is like the chain of custody for evidence, once continuous sight of the suspect vehicle is lost, it cannot be proved concusively that the driver apprehended in the vehicle later was the same one at the wheel at the time of the crime. There is no good answer. One point to consider is that the actions of this criminal, who had just committed a robbery, show a complete disregard for the lives and safety of other people. It is highly likely that he would have caused deaths and/or severe injuries at some point, this just moved the timeline up. Condolences to all involved. *edit: I just read that it was an LCBO theft. It makes my example more pertinent and the situation sadder.*
Let them run. Nobody needs to die over something being stolen. Stuff can be replaced. People can't
Where do you draw the line? Kidnapped child, let them run? Murder suspect, let them run? Violent armed robbery, let them run? If people know the police cannot chase, they will run for the pettiest crap. All it takes is reasonable doubt that it may not have been you in the car and there is no conviction.
When human harm is at stake. That's where the current guideline is
Exactly. If criminals know they can get away with any crime just by hopping in a car then we are truly fucked. Case in point, we now have dudes robbing liquor stores and using stolen u-haul vans to get away. ALL the blame lays on the criminal. Not the police. To anybody else wondering, the police trailing the van in the oncoming lanes with lights and sirens going is done to get the attention of approaching vehicles. People slow down, become more aware when they see police lights. The odd thing about the video tho, is the van is seen traveling on the shoulder then the accident 30 seconds later, its in the furthest left lane. My condolences to the innocent family who lost loved ones. You have my deepest sympathy.
I cannot for the life of me understand this. Witness said they were zig zagging in and out of lanes, while drivign the wrong way, and that there were probably 10-12 police cars in chase, many on the wrong side. FOR WHAT Was he carrying a bomb?? What on earth would make them decide to take on this chase at the risk of so many people's lives?
What were the cops thinking engaging in a chase the wrong way down the 401 all for some liquor bottles. They should have stopped as soon as the guy got on the ramp.
this is horribly devastating. screw the criminal behind the wheel and the police. chasing a crazy person that is driving the wrong way in traffic on a highway is asinine and completely senseless - wow our police really have no clue how to police
We need harsher treatment and sentencing of criminals. I have a feeling these are the reoffending type of suspects.
💔
I didn’t realize the police were also allowed to drive the opposite way on the highway if they’re chasing a suspect - how is this allowed? This feels so dangerous
My condolences to the family and friends of all of those involved. Now what the fuck were the police thinking to pursue a liquor store robber at high speeds in the wrong direction on the 401. The absolute incompetence of our police force shows its ugly face every day, and now a family is dead because a combination of some asshole, and a police officer who thought they thought they could get back a few bottles of booze.
Alcoholic piece of shit
Jennifer neville lake lost her 3 kids and dad when marco muzzo hit them while drunk as a skunk. The kids father. Her husband, commits suicide on father's day, unable to bear the grief any longer. Ciarasullo family lost the mom and 3 daughters when the POS was also running from the cops and hit them Jax and Anaya Chaudhary were killed while.playong in their drive way in Vaughan when a 16 year old was doing 90km down a residential street, hitting them. Every single one was 100% avoidable because of some Pos like this. Absolutely devastating.
#Must have been a confused European driver Or they just didn't give two fucks and drove **IMPAIRED** and killed a family.
Isn’t the LCBO government… so that moron robbed the government. Hence the Grand theft auto ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ response.. I swear real life isn’t real anymore. 🤦 RIP to those innocent who passed and the families affected 😢
A wrong way driver puts so many lives in danger. Unfortunately, the threat wasn't stopped in time to avoid this tragic outcome. This will be hard for the families and anyone involved including the officers.
But yeah, here’s your yearly raise!!!
What for? Some stolen bottles of alcohol? Police should not have put rest of public at risk for chasing the guy.