Get out of here with your common sense
"We'll stick to giving them a first class ride on the gravy train while they enjoy their years of paid vacation+ benefits + pension" - Doug Ford
0 consequences?! Are you mad. There’s absolutely consequences. You could get suspended WITH pay! Could you imagine that terrible situation, getting paid by the people to do nothing?! Brutal!
/s
If auto insurers will insure people with multiple DUIs, cops would be easy. All insurance works the same way: figure out the total expected claims per year from a group, mark that up for profit margin and variability, and divide that number up across the group. The total cost of settlements was a lot lower than I expected, last I looked.
What do you mean by this? Medical professionals accidently kill people all the time. I believe you can sue the police tho, not sure about nurses and doctors.
I dont see a problem with this.
Basically they make it so that the average doctor doesnt really see any cost to them, while problem doctors will have to pay to cover the difference.
Doctor here. This is a little off topic, but I find the medical malpractice system in Canada fascinating. Unlike in the US, medical malpractice costs in Canada are shockingly low. For specialists in some provinces, the rate is only a few hundred dollars per year.
We actually don’t have malpractice insurance in the same way US doctors do. Instead, we pay into a legal mutual aid organization, the Canadian Medical Protective Association. In exchange, the CMPA provides legal advice to us if we get sued to face a college complaint, hires lawyers on our behalf to defend us against legal liability when the CMPA determines, based on their legal analysis, that we were not at fault, and pays compensation on our behalf to patients proven to be harmed by negligent care.
There is a subtle difference between this arrangement and insurance.
1. CMPA fees vary depending on specialty and province of practice. It does not go up if you’ve had malpractice claims against you in the past. An obstetrician with no claims pays the same fee as one with a history of multiple malpractice claims. The fee for each speciality practicing in each province is listed here: [2024\_fees\_en.indd (cmpa-acpm.ca)](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/static-assets/pdf/membership/fees-and-payment/2024cal-e.pdf) and reflect the pooled liability cost for that profession in that fee region.
2. The goal of the CMPA is to reduce the medical liability costs of the profession as a whole, rather than the cost of individual insurees. This means the CMPA will vigorously pursue all cases to trial, if only to set precedence in case law about what the legal obligations of a physician is, with regards of duty of care to patients. Whereas in the United States, insurers will settle out of court to save the significant expense of taking cases to trial, the CMPA will generally not do so. This means there is a solid body of case law that determines what the legal obligations of a doctor is, with regards to all aspects for which doctors are commonly sued: documentation, informed consent, appropriate assessment, and adverse events related to care. For example, doctors occasionally do make misdiagnoses that result in patient harm (not infrequently I might add). The standard is not that we have to be perfect, but that we made reasonable assessments of what the correct diagnoses may be, and investigate the most likely and most dangerous ones. Given the information available at the time, as long as there are a reasonable number of other doctors trained in your speciality who would have made a similar assessment, then this care is appropriate. Also, there are inherent risks in medical procedures. There is an inherent risk that, for example, a colonoscopy may lead to a colonic perforation, or that a knee replacement will lead to an infection, even if everything is done right. Unless you can prove your doctor was negligent, it is accepted by our legal system that medical procedures carry inherent risks, and physicians are not necessarily liable for these if they did the procedure correctly, it was medically indicated, and the risks were accepted by the patient.
3. because the CMPA takes all these cases to trial, there is strong case law regarding all types of things patients may sue for. This means there is little ambiguity, at the beginning of the case, whether or not the claimant is likely to be successful. The CMPA will not settle frivolous cases under any circumstances, even if it means spending millions of dollars to defend against a small claim worth only a few thousand. Law firms in Canada know this, and will not pursue cases unless there is clear case law showing the doctor failed to meet the standard of care. This means there are essentially no frivilous lawsuits in Canadian healthcare. On the other hand, where case law shows the doctor was in fact negligent, the CMPA will straight up pay the claim, no court battle needed.
4. the goal of the CMPA overall is to reduce the cost of medical liability for the profession as a whole. Because it defends almost all malpractice cases in Canada it knows exactly what the standards of care to patients are, and advises doctors specifically on how not to get sued. They publish this in their “Good Practices Guide”. For example, this particular document provides guidance to physician with regards to appropriate medical documentation: [CMPA - Physician-patient | Documentation and record keeping | CMPA Good practices (cmpa-acpm.ca)](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/education-events/good-practices/physician-patient/documentation-and-record-keeping). They also provide education to physicians, residents, and medical students.
5. To join the CMPA, members must agree to practice in a manner consistent with the values of the profession, strive to reduce medical harm and improve patient safety, and promise to work together to reduce legal liabilities for the profession. [https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/about/what-we-do/empowering-better-healthcare?referral=aboutlanding#section2](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/about/what-we-do/empowering-better-healthcare?referral=aboutlanding#section2)
This system is extremely effective in reducing medical malpractice costs across the country, while improving the safety of medical care.
Now this is completely unrelated to the discussion topic, but I think it’s interesting and provides some insight into how no-fault liabilitty protection might actually be more effective at lowering costs and reducing losses than the traditional adversarial insurance systems used in, say car insurance, where your premiums go up if you file a claim.
> This means the CMPA will vigorously pursue all cases to trial, if only to set precedence in case law about what the legal obligations of a physician is, in terms of providing appropriate and non-negligent care.
I figure they'll settle if they know they'll lose. You just won't hear about it because of confidentiality clauses. They do occasionally lose in court. I doubt all of the cases against them are so weak to be worth taking to trial and airing it all out in public.
edit: looks like you edited your post, so my response probably doesn't make as much sense
Correct. If there is case law showing a doctor failed to meet the standard of care, then the CMPA will pay the claim, no court battle needed.
And yes, they do occasionally lose in court. This usually happens in grey areas of medical liability that have not yet been tested before the courts. In this case, it is in the CMPA's interest to take these all the way to trial, to determine exactly what a doctor's duty of care is to his or her patients. Once the precedence is set, the CMPA will actively educate doctors to ensure that we uphold such standards to prevent similar lawsuits in the future. However, the CMPA will not settle out of court simply to minimize costs.
Sorry about all the edits, but yes I think the system is fascinating, and not easy to explain to people outside the profession. To be frank I think many doctors in the profession don't quite understand how it works.
Also off topic, but which province has the lowest auto insurance rates in Canada? Quebec, by a lot. Quebec has a Public Automobile Insurance Plan that pays personal injury claims resulting from road accidents. It covers all Quebecers, regardless of who is at fault. If you drink and drive and hurt yourself badly in an accident from hitting a streetlamp, the SAAQ will pay income replacement, pay for your physiotherapy, pay for your medications, etc. If you are hit by a motorbike while vacationing in Vietnam the SAAQ will pay out the same. This system is completely no-fault. As a result, residents of Quebec cannot sue each other for personal injury relating to road accidents. The government collects premiums for this program as part of driver license and vehicle registration renewal, amounting to a few hundred dollars a year. The SAAQ also actively works to improve road safety with the goal of reducing the amount it has to pay out as a result of these claims. [Québec’s Public Automobile Insurance Plan in Brief - SAAQ (gouv.qc.ca)](https://saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/traffic-accident/public-automobile-insurance-plan/in-brief). The video (in French) explains this program and also that Quebec has the lowest insurance rates in Canada, by a lot, which is true.
Quebec residents still need to buy car insurance to cover liability from property damage (i.e. damage to other people's property or vehicles as a result of your driving) but insurance rates are approximately half to one-third of what they are in Ontario.
Doctors malpractice insurance is largely paid by taxpayers and to make it even more cruelly unjust it next to possible to win against them because our money pays for high-priced scorched earth campaigns by the defence lawyers … on our dime. Meanwhile medical incompetence is rife throughout our system based on my lifetime of experience and particularly in the last decade of my life.People’s lives, like mine, are being ruined daily as patients are routinely treated like one step above lab rats, with zero to poor communication and assembly-line care. If it weren’t for my brains and tenacity in researching all aspects of my serious health issues I would be dead by now.
And they now only give you two years to sue for malpractice, down from five before I believe, to narrow down the odds in their favour as well
> According to the internal police report seen by the Star — as well as information from a Durham officer with knowledge of the incident — the attempt to call off the pursuit appears to have come *just before the U-Haul drove onto the 401*
6 police vehicles then proceeded to chase them the wrong way on the highway
An off-duty cop had their ego threatened and needed emotional support. Seriously though, an off-duty cop had a knife pulled on them during an LCBO robbery and he called it in. This would never have happened if it wasn't a *cop* who felt threatened; countless civilians have had knives and guns pulled on them and the best you'll get from the police is a 5-hour wait for them to show up.
Cop’s ego gets hurt. Cops play hot pursuit over petty cash. Family gets destroyed. Cops get off liability free and party because the suspect they were chasing was incapacitated and that’s all they care about. Honestly this needs to be protested. The media and cops will do everything they can to blame the robber because he is a criminal despite the police pursuit being the reason for the crash.
Durham police are known to be the trash thug force. I hope they are truly held to account here. This was beyond reckless, criminal ... The OPP absolutely knew right from the start this is dangerous and to stand down.
A commenter on a previous post said that Durham police are basically cowboys. I guess this proves them right. What a shame they’ll really never be held accountable
It is a long way from the Green Rd/Hwy 2 LCBO to the Stevenson Rd 401 interchange. Busy, residential streets. It should have been called off LONG before it got that far. In fact, shouldn’t have happened at all. I’m actually shocked they didn’t crash earlier.
This can only mean years of Paid Administrative Leave while this moves through the courts and police professional standards reviews. /s
It's pretty terrible because the Cops tell the public to avoid confronting criminals robbing them or someone else because it only takes a moment for people to be in danger and some life altering event to happen.
Maybe cops should take their own advice.
Punishment for the taxpayers maybe.
6 police cars chased the guy. That could easily be like 10 cops on leave.
if it takes 3 years for this investigation then it's 30 person-years of paid leave. If the total compensation per cop/year is like 100k (I believe it is probably more once all the benefits are factored in) we're talking >$3 million to pay cops to do nothing.
The cops did tell us not to do anything if someone robs us.
So the next time someone takes your money and goes on 'Paid Administrative Leave', you shouldn't do anything or you might put yourself or other members of the public at risk.
I mean it’s true, the original guy was off duty and couldn’t handle the fact he couldn’t use his gun. I’m sure they’ll all be freaking they can’t use their guns.
Yah I remember some TPS cops who killed a black kid over an apple watch
But for the rest of us - leave your car keys at the front door for the thieves! Property isn't worth a human life!
Yes. There's is a mountain of evidence that these types of high speed chases aren't worth the risk to public safety and why it would have been called off
If the officers were directed to back-off and didn't that's a massive problem
A high speed chase normally isn’t worth it, a high speed chasing going the WRONG DIRECTION on the busiest highway in North America is not worth it in any way. Someone needs to lose their job for this.
high speed chase for ANYTHING other than having a live bomb or a kidnapped baby in the backseat should be completely unthinkable. even in those cases, preventing the driver from panicking and making even more poor decisions should be the goal. you're close enough to the car to chase, you're close enough to see the make and model, and to get a helicopter or traffic radar involved.
> If the officers were directed to back-off and didn't that's a massive problem
but who's going to hold them accountable? It's not the police forces and it's not the SIU under cons
Robbery suspect should get first degree murder. There should be criminal consequences as well for the police officer who recklessly endangered the public though
You see high speed chases in movies and think you can weave your way in and out of cars and it's all good, but in real life what happens is this. Because real life doesn't need you or that innocent bystander alive for the final act, so it doesn't give people plot armor when they do dangerous things.
Police need to learn this.
They really shouldn't. I'm sure there's some "thin Blue line" guy out there who will say "but he pulled a knife on the cop!" as some sort of justification, but in the end, all we see is a failed robbery, followed by a threat...nothing was stolen, no one was stabbed. The idea that this needed half a dozen police engaged in a high speed pursuit is just insanity.
A robber pulled a knife on them, so they (the police) end up killing 4 people.
Worst part is, I bet they don't even feel responsible, guilty, or remorseful in any way.
To them, it's the robber who did this. To Canadians though, it's the police.
Why are lowly-educated individuals the ones with the guns?!
I mean recently there was a Toronto cop that got caught taking a Rolex off a corpse.
There isn't a cop that makes less than 100k in this town. You think he threw away millions in lifetime earnings and benefits for a used Rolex worth a few $1000. No way...
Makes you wonder what else they're stealing to make it worth the risk.
To serve and protect *capital*. They wouldn’t do this for an assault case. It’s only because a corporation lost money that this was even seriously pursued.
No they only did this because the robber pulled a knife on an off duty cop. If that hadn't happened, they would've taken some statements and then do nothing about it.
LCBOs get robbed all the time. The thieves just brazenly walk out with the stuff and the staff are trained not to do anything. This time a cop was threatened so apparently that gave them carte blanche for a high speed pursuit on the 401 going the opposite direction of traffic.
Exactly. I've seen it recently. Security guard and LCBO store manager stand there watching as the riffraff casually walks out with a bottle in each hand. Did and said nothing. (Spadina Rd. / Lonsdale). St Clair W. Loblaws store nearby no different. Yet ironically we deal with premium pricing on practically everything compared to anywhere and we're expected to fork out as law abiding citizens. If you're a thief though? C'mon in and take whatever you want.
And went rogue over something devastatingly dangerous, disobeying orders.
Now take a step back. If these orders are disregarded, what other directives are being ignored?
It's funny because cops are public servants hired and paid for by us to protect us from crime and criminals.
But they are also public servants hired and paid for by us to protect the rich and influential from us.
It's fucked up.
lol you still think most cops do the job out of some high morality or community service? No. Their egotistical thrill seekers. Some sociopathic. The more people know this the better
Indeed, the HTA driving law exemptions that do exist for police only apply "in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer". If the chase was ordered to be stopped... it's probably not lawful performance. Relevant case about an officer being convicted of careless driving (which doesn't have a carveout for lawful performance): https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2011/2011oncj60/2011oncj60.html
Now on the criminal side, Police on the job have been criminally charged and convicted for dangerous driving (in this case causing death, but death/injury isn't required to get a criminal dangerous driving charge): https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2021/2021onca211/2021onca211.html
edit: This is a good one: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2011/2011oncj424/2011oncj424.html Officer phoned in their pursuit request to dispatch, sargeant responded:
> I asked the dispatcher to ask reason for pursuit. I learned it was for theft of fuel. Upon hearing that I immediately terminated the pursuit as the need to apprehend obviously did not outweigh the risk to the officers, the fleeing driver or other vehicular or pedestrian traffic that may be encountered.
worth mentioning:
> Section 4(2) specifically requires any police officer who receives an order to discontinue to obey it
Chase continued anyway and officer got in a crash going 191 in an 80 and got convicted of (non-criminal) stunt driving.
My heart hurts for the family permanently affected by this lack of common sense on the part of the pursuing officers. For what?! Imagine the grief and anger they are living with now.
because they had to retaliate with a harsh response to send a message not to fuck with them.
They’re a gang, this is how they respond when you hurt their ego
If you're against crime, you have to be for the police, and support everything they do to stop crime. Otherwise you're not really against crime, and people are going to see that people aren't against crime and go do more crime, and society will devolve into anarchy.
Or at least that's what you'd believe if you read the last thread on this. This thread (now that there's evidence the cops were *told* to stop) is a bit better.
Why not both?
Fuck the criminal.
Fuck the cops involved since this over aggressive use of force was unjustified and they are the paid professionals expected to know better.
they also had the license plate before the chase began. and they also have a helicopter that could have been there in minutes. you’re right: this is inexcusable
Umar Zameer, 401 crash, what's next? I've been falsely accused of a crime once. It turned my life upside down for over a year. Could not find work with pending criminal charges. All for the prosecution to realize there was no case to begin with. My life path is forever changed because of police negligence.
N.W.A said it best- Fuck Tha Police
Of course it's another hot headed cop
Remind me again why he was chasing them in the first place? That level of incompetency must have been justified by something equally terrible right? Maybe a mass murder?
Right? Investigating my garage break-in and filing paperwork, boring; high-speed Bad Boyz car chase, bring it on! Too bad people died and it's our tax dollars that are going to used for compensation (not that it will make it right).
When half the force gets off on the speed, and the other half wants to know what a person's insides look like, we all lose and (literally and figuratively) pay
It’s fucking crazy to me they followed the guy onto the 401 going the wrong way. Absolutely fucking crazy.
My thoughts go out to the family of the grandparents and toddler lost.
I’ll reserve comment on punishment for the police as I appreciate all they do.
but it needs to be the most severe so this never happens again.
which is not just a dumb idea, but unlawful:
> Order to discontinue pursuit
> 4 (1) A communications or road supervisor shall order police officers to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit if, in his or her opinion, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (1).
> (2) A police officer who receives an order under subsection (1) shall obey the order even if the officer is not a member of the police force of the communications or road supervisor who made the order. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (2).
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/regu/o-reg-266-10/latest/o-reg-266-10.html
They don't do shit... Have you ever been saved by a cop in your life?
I've been assaulted an robbed a dozen times... Guess mow many times the cops did anything at all except make me feel stupid for calling them.
Police chiefs can and have made outrageous statements even when SIU investigates
Remember that TPS chief tried to paint Umar Zameer as a cold blooded cop killer at a press conference
even worse, they really only responded because it was an off-duty cop that called it in.
I have never heard cops showing up 6+ deep for some stolen goods.
Four people, including a baby, dead over a few thousand dollars worth of beer.
These cops should spend the rest of the lives in jail.
But nothing will happen.
THIS is why people think ACAB.
This is all because of a stolen bottle of booze. An off duty cop in the store confronted him and was then "threatened" with a knife.
Normally the cops don't give a rats ass about shoplifted booze, but this time they all got their knickers in a twist because the off duty cop got his feelings hurt, so off they go chasing this guy down. 3 innocent lives were lost and dozens are facing the repercussions of being involved in accidents all because these cops overstepped.
I'm just fucking done with all this bullshit. I do not understand why working in the public service makes *some* people completely immune to any accountability or responsibility.
I mean just look at all this bullshit. Our MPPs are effectively protected from any accountability for their actions. They can destroy our healthcare system and all we can do is remove them for some new corrupt cunts in a new colour.
Then we have our wonderful police departments which seem to be run by testosterone ridden men who do whatever they fucking want, kill whoever they fucking want, without even being *fired* or losing their wages, let alone being charged.
Then you have all the corrupt and incompetent overpaid "managers" of the public service like commission CEOs who destroy our public transit, hospitals, and what not and then get a *raise* for doing so.
Fuck all this shit, fire them all and reset this bull already. How much more must we see the same fuckups continue to happen before everyone is sick and tired of our tax dollars being used to effectively fund the good lives of objectively terrible people?
Police officers still chasing suspect are equally responsible for the tragedy as the suspect. These protocols exist to maintain SAFTEY but these pigs just couldn’t turn down an exciting car chase… disgraceful as per usual.
>The 20-minute chase was set off by a robbery at a Bowmanville LCBO, near Green Road and Highway 2, where a man tried to rob the liquor store and “pulled a knife on an off-duty officer,” according to *Durham police.*
The same Durham cops that were trying hard to keep their dirty laundry under wraps?
And after the Zameer trial, I would take what cops claim with a large grain of salt
They were completely in the right, if that high speed chase going the wrong way down a busy highway had gone right, and they secured the stolen $225, those cops would have been praised as hero’s/s
Cop wanted to play hot pursuit and now this family is destroyed because Mr. Pig decided to chase down $500 worth of money robbed from a LCBO like it was $10M of gold bars. Unnecessary
Get another instance of of our police making their own rules and essentially calling damage in destruction in society. Honesty policing needs to be rewarmed
This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder why people seemed to be so ok with police giving anyone at a traffic stop a breathalyzer test. What makes anyone think it wouldn’t just result in some kind of new and creative abuse of power. It always results in some kind of abuse of power. I get wanting to get drunks off the road… but at what cost. It doesn’t really seem to ever work out for anyone who isn’t a cop.
I’m a privileged white guy (purely because I’m white) and I know it. Imagine how anyone who isn’t that feels about it.
When tf will we get police reform in Toronto. I work hard to pay taxes and in exchange we get a police force that is more likely to directly cause a fiery crash in the 401, despite supervisor orders, than to return stolen vehicles to their owners. These people are a joke, and a public threat.
Dude was just trying to "help people with his lights" even though the pursuit was called off. What a fresh take on chasing people driving against traffic.
Another example of cop Idiocracy leading to deaths
Perhaps the cops involved should be charged with first degree murder too? No wait, that only means they'll get years of paid vacation
And there it fucking is.
Everyone on the last thread who tried to offer up "But maybe the cops didn't know" and "What did you want them to do, let the criminals go?!"....can bugger all the way off now.
This is the EXACT result I expected.
A reckless cop with their blood up keeps chasing after the chase was called off by their superiors.
People are dead and all this sub can do is gloat? I reserve to hold my judgment until an investigation has actually happened. Were the cops right behind him trying to pull off a pit maneuver or were they 1 km behind keeping their distance?
The fact that this leaked so fast shows that it was a huge failure. For once even other cops are (anonymously) doing something other than hiding behind the thin blue line
Cops should have to carry personal liability insurance like medical professionals are required to.
Get out of here with your common sense "We'll stick to giving them a first class ride on the gravy train while they enjoy their years of paid vacation+ benefits + pension" - Doug Ford
Why would they need insurance when they've given the authority to do whatever they want with 0 consequences?
0 consequences?! Are you mad. There’s absolutely consequences. You could get suspended WITH pay! Could you imagine that terrible situation, getting paid by the people to do nothing?! Brutal! /s
Who would provide liability insurance for them, insurance companies aren't stupid
>insurance companies aren't stupid Exactly. It would make problem cops uninsurable making them unemployable.
If auto insurers will insure people with multiple DUIs, cops would be easy. All insurance works the same way: figure out the total expected claims per year from a group, mark that up for profit margin and variability, and divide that number up across the group. The total cost of settlements was a lot lower than I expected, last I looked.
Instead they get complete immunity
This is a brilliant idea.
What do you mean by this? Medical professionals accidently kill people all the time. I believe you can sue the police tho, not sure about nurses and doctors.
Belong to the Police not-a-union is insurance enough against personal liabilities.
A good portion of the premium is paid back to the doctors by the government.
I dont see a problem with this. Basically they make it so that the average doctor doesnt really see any cost to them, while problem doctors will have to pay to cover the difference.
Doctor here. This is a little off topic, but I find the medical malpractice system in Canada fascinating. Unlike in the US, medical malpractice costs in Canada are shockingly low. For specialists in some provinces, the rate is only a few hundred dollars per year. We actually don’t have malpractice insurance in the same way US doctors do. Instead, we pay into a legal mutual aid organization, the Canadian Medical Protective Association. In exchange, the CMPA provides legal advice to us if we get sued to face a college complaint, hires lawyers on our behalf to defend us against legal liability when the CMPA determines, based on their legal analysis, that we were not at fault, and pays compensation on our behalf to patients proven to be harmed by negligent care. There is a subtle difference between this arrangement and insurance. 1. CMPA fees vary depending on specialty and province of practice. It does not go up if you’ve had malpractice claims against you in the past. An obstetrician with no claims pays the same fee as one with a history of multiple malpractice claims. The fee for each speciality practicing in each province is listed here: [2024\_fees\_en.indd (cmpa-acpm.ca)](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/static-assets/pdf/membership/fees-and-payment/2024cal-e.pdf) and reflect the pooled liability cost for that profession in that fee region. 2. The goal of the CMPA is to reduce the medical liability costs of the profession as a whole, rather than the cost of individual insurees. This means the CMPA will vigorously pursue all cases to trial, if only to set precedence in case law about what the legal obligations of a physician is, with regards of duty of care to patients. Whereas in the United States, insurers will settle out of court to save the significant expense of taking cases to trial, the CMPA will generally not do so. This means there is a solid body of case law that determines what the legal obligations of a doctor is, with regards to all aspects for which doctors are commonly sued: documentation, informed consent, appropriate assessment, and adverse events related to care. For example, doctors occasionally do make misdiagnoses that result in patient harm (not infrequently I might add). The standard is not that we have to be perfect, but that we made reasonable assessments of what the correct diagnoses may be, and investigate the most likely and most dangerous ones. Given the information available at the time, as long as there are a reasonable number of other doctors trained in your speciality who would have made a similar assessment, then this care is appropriate. Also, there are inherent risks in medical procedures. There is an inherent risk that, for example, a colonoscopy may lead to a colonic perforation, or that a knee replacement will lead to an infection, even if everything is done right. Unless you can prove your doctor was negligent, it is accepted by our legal system that medical procedures carry inherent risks, and physicians are not necessarily liable for these if they did the procedure correctly, it was medically indicated, and the risks were accepted by the patient. 3. because the CMPA takes all these cases to trial, there is strong case law regarding all types of things patients may sue for. This means there is little ambiguity, at the beginning of the case, whether or not the claimant is likely to be successful. The CMPA will not settle frivolous cases under any circumstances, even if it means spending millions of dollars to defend against a small claim worth only a few thousand. Law firms in Canada know this, and will not pursue cases unless there is clear case law showing the doctor failed to meet the standard of care. This means there are essentially no frivilous lawsuits in Canadian healthcare. On the other hand, where case law shows the doctor was in fact negligent, the CMPA will straight up pay the claim, no court battle needed. 4. the goal of the CMPA overall is to reduce the cost of medical liability for the profession as a whole. Because it defends almost all malpractice cases in Canada it knows exactly what the standards of care to patients are, and advises doctors specifically on how not to get sued. They publish this in their “Good Practices Guide”. For example, this particular document provides guidance to physician with regards to appropriate medical documentation: [CMPA - Physician-patient | Documentation and record keeping | CMPA Good practices (cmpa-acpm.ca)](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/education-events/good-practices/physician-patient/documentation-and-record-keeping). They also provide education to physicians, residents, and medical students. 5. To join the CMPA, members must agree to practice in a manner consistent with the values of the profession, strive to reduce medical harm and improve patient safety, and promise to work together to reduce legal liabilities for the profession. [https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/about/what-we-do/empowering-better-healthcare?referral=aboutlanding#section2](https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/about/what-we-do/empowering-better-healthcare?referral=aboutlanding#section2) This system is extremely effective in reducing medical malpractice costs across the country, while improving the safety of medical care. Now this is completely unrelated to the discussion topic, but I think it’s interesting and provides some insight into how no-fault liabilitty protection might actually be more effective at lowering costs and reducing losses than the traditional adversarial insurance systems used in, say car insurance, where your premiums go up if you file a claim.
> This means the CMPA will vigorously pursue all cases to trial, if only to set precedence in case law about what the legal obligations of a physician is, in terms of providing appropriate and non-negligent care. I figure they'll settle if they know they'll lose. You just won't hear about it because of confidentiality clauses. They do occasionally lose in court. I doubt all of the cases against them are so weak to be worth taking to trial and airing it all out in public. edit: looks like you edited your post, so my response probably doesn't make as much sense
Correct. If there is case law showing a doctor failed to meet the standard of care, then the CMPA will pay the claim, no court battle needed. And yes, they do occasionally lose in court. This usually happens in grey areas of medical liability that have not yet been tested before the courts. In this case, it is in the CMPA's interest to take these all the way to trial, to determine exactly what a doctor's duty of care is to his or her patients. Once the precedence is set, the CMPA will actively educate doctors to ensure that we uphold such standards to prevent similar lawsuits in the future. However, the CMPA will not settle out of court simply to minimize costs. Sorry about all the edits, but yes I think the system is fascinating, and not easy to explain to people outside the profession. To be frank I think many doctors in the profession don't quite understand how it works.
Also off topic, but which province has the lowest auto insurance rates in Canada? Quebec, by a lot. Quebec has a Public Automobile Insurance Plan that pays personal injury claims resulting from road accidents. It covers all Quebecers, regardless of who is at fault. If you drink and drive and hurt yourself badly in an accident from hitting a streetlamp, the SAAQ will pay income replacement, pay for your physiotherapy, pay for your medications, etc. If you are hit by a motorbike while vacationing in Vietnam the SAAQ will pay out the same. This system is completely no-fault. As a result, residents of Quebec cannot sue each other for personal injury relating to road accidents. The government collects premiums for this program as part of driver license and vehicle registration renewal, amounting to a few hundred dollars a year. The SAAQ also actively works to improve road safety with the goal of reducing the amount it has to pay out as a result of these claims. [Québec’s Public Automobile Insurance Plan in Brief - SAAQ (gouv.qc.ca)](https://saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/traffic-accident/public-automobile-insurance-plan/in-brief). The video (in French) explains this program and also that Quebec has the lowest insurance rates in Canada, by a lot, which is true. Quebec residents still need to buy car insurance to cover liability from property damage (i.e. damage to other people's property or vehicles as a result of your driving) but insurance rates are approximately half to one-third of what they are in Ontario.
Doctors malpractice insurance is largely paid by taxpayers and to make it even more cruelly unjust it next to possible to win against them because our money pays for high-priced scorched earth campaigns by the defence lawyers … on our dime. Meanwhile medical incompetence is rife throughout our system based on my lifetime of experience and particularly in the last decade of my life.People’s lives, like mine, are being ruined daily as patients are routinely treated like one step above lab rats, with zero to poor communication and assembly-line care. If it weren’t for my brains and tenacity in researching all aspects of my serious health issues I would be dead by now. And they now only give you two years to sue for malpractice, down from five before I believe, to narrow down the odds in their favour as well
That's if they pay a percentage and not a capped amount that ends up being the same
Their union should
> According to the internal police report seen by the Star — as well as information from a Durham officer with knowledge of the incident — the attempt to call off the pursuit appears to have come *just before the U-Haul drove onto the 401* 6 police vehicles then proceeded to chase them the wrong way on the highway
Sounds like gross criminal negligence to me, a lawyer, or anyone really
Why do 6 cars have to go behind???? Its all so stupid
An off-duty cop had their ego threatened and needed emotional support. Seriously though, an off-duty cop had a knife pulled on them during an LCBO robbery and he called it in. This would never have happened if it wasn't a *cop* who felt threatened; countless civilians have had knives and guns pulled on them and the best you'll get from the police is a 5-hour wait for them to show up.
yep, soon we'll find out there was no knife involved either
"Umar Zameer ran me head on despite me waving my hands in protest"
Do you mean cops lie all the time as part of their duties and nothing ever happens to them??? Never!!!
Umar Zameer's case comes to mind, and about a thousand others.
Cop’s ego gets hurt. Cops play hot pursuit over petty cash. Family gets destroyed. Cops get off liability free and party because the suspect they were chasing was incapacitated and that’s all they care about. Honestly this needs to be protested. The media and cops will do everything they can to blame the robber because he is a criminal despite the police pursuit being the reason for the crash.
Durham police are known to be the trash thug force. I hope they are truly held to account here. This was beyond reckless, criminal ... The OPP absolutely knew right from the start this is dangerous and to stand down.
Biggest gang in Canada
Bingo!
A commenter on a previous post said that Durham police are basically cowboys. I guess this proves them right. What a shame they’ll really never be held accountable
It is a long way from the Green Rd/Hwy 2 LCBO to the Stevenson Rd 401 interchange. Busy, residential streets. It should have been called off LONG before it got that far. In fact, shouldn’t have happened at all. I’m actually shocked they didn’t crash earlier.
😮
This can only mean years of Paid Administrative Leave while this moves through the courts and police professional standards reviews. /s It's pretty terrible because the Cops tell the public to avoid confronting criminals robbing them or someone else because it only takes a moment for people to be in danger and some life altering event to happen. Maybe cops should take their own advice.
Rules for thee and not for more is basically the new to serve and protect.
Doug Ford’s motto.
New?
Fair lol
I literally just said something similar. How is it “punishment” to be on paid leave?
Punishment for the taxpayers maybe. 6 police cars chased the guy. That could easily be like 10 cops on leave. if it takes 3 years for this investigation then it's 30 person-years of paid leave. If the total compensation per cop/year is like 100k (I believe it is probably more once all the benefits are factored in) we're talking >$3 million to pay cops to do nothing.
Look on the bright side! Doing nothing is either status quo or better, since they will endanger fewer civilians sitting at home.
The cops did tell us not to do anything if someone robs us. So the next time someone takes your money and goes on 'Paid Administrative Leave', you shouldn't do anything or you might put yourself or other members of the public at risk.
I mean it’s true, the original guy was off duty and couldn’t handle the fact he couldn’t use his gun. I’m sure they’ll all be freaking they can’t use their guns.
It's not And it's designed that way.
Yah I remember some TPS cops who killed a black kid over an apple watch But for the rest of us - leave your car keys at the front door for the thieves! Property isn't worth a human life!
Surprise surprise. Police incompetence and ego leads to civilian deaths. Aren’t they supposed to serve and protect?
Yes. There's is a mountain of evidence that these types of high speed chases aren't worth the risk to public safety and why it would have been called off If the officers were directed to back-off and didn't that's a massive problem
A high speed chase normally isn’t worth it, a high speed chasing going the WRONG DIRECTION on the busiest highway in North America is not worth it in any way. Someone needs to lose their job for this.
Someone (the cop) needs to *go to jail* for this, but of course that won't happen.
high speed chase for ANYTHING other than having a live bomb or a kidnapped baby in the backseat should be completely unthinkable. even in those cases, preventing the driver from panicking and making even more poor decisions should be the goal. you're close enough to the car to chase, you're close enough to see the make and model, and to get a helicopter or traffic radar involved.
> Someone needs to lose their job for this. Well, I'm sure we'll fire some nurses.
> If the officers were directed to back-off and didn't that's a massive problem but who's going to hold them accountable? It's not the police forces and it's not the SIU under cons
No one. They’ll just charge the robbery suspect with first degree murder.
Ain't he dead?
That won’t stop them from attributing blame.
And give some officers a mandatory paid vacation
Charge the corpse. Engraved on the tomb.
Robbery suspect should get first degree murder. There should be criminal consequences as well for the police officer who recklessly endangered the public though
The suspect was one of the people killed in the collision
I think you'd have a very hard time proving that he had the requisite intent for murder. Manslaughter though
"We conducted an investigation on ourselves and found no indication of wrongdoing."
You see high speed chases in movies and think you can weave your way in and out of cars and it's all good, but in real life what happens is this. Because real life doesn't need you or that innocent bystander alive for the final act, so it doesn't give people plot armor when they do dangerous things. Police need to learn this.
police should not need to learn this ffs
They really shouldn't. I'm sure there's some "thin Blue line" guy out there who will say "but he pulled a knife on the cop!" as some sort of justification, but in the end, all we see is a failed robbery, followed by a threat...nothing was stolen, no one was stabbed. The idea that this needed half a dozen police engaged in a high speed pursuit is just insanity.
Pulling a knife is quite disrespectful to the cop. And as the Umar case showed us, once you don't acknowledge their "authority" shit hits the fan
They know, but their right to feel like cool action movie heroes overrides the public's right to not die.
> Aren’t they supposed to serve and protect? Themselves, yes.
The reason they went into berserker mode here is because the robber pulled a knife on the off-duty cop. If it was me or you, they wouldn't care.
A robber pulled a knife on them, so they (the police) end up killing 4 people. Worst part is, I bet they don't even feel responsible, guilty, or remorseful in any way. To them, it's the robber who did this. To Canadians though, it's the police. Why are lowly-educated individuals the ones with the guns?!
I mean recently there was a Toronto cop that got caught taking a Rolex off a corpse. There isn't a cop that makes less than 100k in this town. You think he threw away millions in lifetime earnings and benefits for a used Rolex worth a few $1000. No way... Makes you wonder what else they're stealing to make it worth the risk.
what risk
My theory is that that’s the incomplete version of the phrase. Only insiders whisper the final bit in hushed tones (TO SERVE & PROTECT *ourselves* )
To Serve and Protect *vested interests*
To serve and protect *capital*. They wouldn’t do this for an assault case. It’s only because a corporation lost money that this was even seriously pursued.
No they only did this because the robber pulled a knife on an off duty cop. If that hadn't happened, they would've taken some statements and then do nothing about it.
LCBOs get robbed all the time. The thieves just brazenly walk out with the stuff and the staff are trained not to do anything. This time a cop was threatened so apparently that gave them carte blanche for a high speed pursuit on the 401 going the opposite direction of traffic.
I worked at a store beside an LCBO and watched it get robbed pretty much weekly. Never saw a cop a single time
Exactly. I've seen it recently. Security guard and LCBO store manager stand there watching as the riffraff casually walks out with a bottle in each hand. Did and said nothing. (Spadina Rd. / Lonsdale). St Clair W. Loblaws store nearby no different. Yet ironically we deal with premium pricing on practically everything compared to anywhere and we're expected to fork out as law abiding citizens. If you're a thief though? C'mon in and take whatever you want.
Spoke to a cop friend of mine. She confirms they are directed to *not* chase. This particular cop went rogue.
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Ya several. They disregarded orders.
This cop? There were 20 cars
20-40 cops all individually went rogue… just a few bad apples you see /s
I read 6. I guess they went nuts when the perp pulled a knife on one of theirs.
And went rogue over something devastatingly dangerous, disobeying orders. Now take a step back. If these orders are disregarded, what other directives are being ignored?
>Aren’t they supposed to serve and protect? "To serve and protect" Doesn't mention *who*.
It's funny because cops are public servants hired and paid for by us to protect us from crime and criminals. But they are also public servants hired and paid for by us to protect the rich and influential from us. It's fucked up.
They serve and protect the police.
Nope, they are not legally bound to serve or protect anything.
>Aren’t they supposed to serve and protect? Nope. Never have been. That's nothing but marketing.
lol you still think most cops do the job out of some high morality or community service? No. Their egotistical thrill seekers. Some sociopathic. The more people know this the better
A few criminals in this story One died. Others are gonna get a long paid vacation at the tax payer's expense. RIP to the family that died
Indeed, the HTA driving law exemptions that do exist for police only apply "in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer". If the chase was ordered to be stopped... it's probably not lawful performance. Relevant case about an officer being convicted of careless driving (which doesn't have a carveout for lawful performance): https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2011/2011oncj60/2011oncj60.html Now on the criminal side, Police on the job have been criminally charged and convicted for dangerous driving (in this case causing death, but death/injury isn't required to get a criminal dangerous driving charge): https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2021/2021onca211/2021onca211.html edit: This is a good one: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2011/2011oncj424/2011oncj424.html Officer phoned in their pursuit request to dispatch, sargeant responded: > I asked the dispatcher to ask reason for pursuit. I learned it was for theft of fuel. Upon hearing that I immediately terminated the pursuit as the need to apprehend obviously did not outweigh the risk to the officers, the fleeing driver or other vehicular or pedestrian traffic that may be encountered. worth mentioning: > Section 4(2) specifically requires any police officer who receives an order to discontinue to obey it Chase continued anyway and officer got in a crash going 191 in an 80 and got convicted of (non-criminal) stunt driving.
My heart hurts for the family permanently affected by this lack of common sense on the part of the pursuing officers. For what?! Imagine the grief and anger they are living with now.
because they had to retaliate with a harsh response to send a message not to fuck with them. They’re a gang, this is how they respond when you hurt their ego
Well they had to catch the shoplifter, totally worth it... So stupid.
While the other 99.99% of shoplifters aren't worth their time
In this case an off duty cop ‘had a knife pulled on him’ so of course all standard protocol goes out the door and ‘operation red mist’ is initiated
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This was an armed robbery. And a police officer was attacked.
*off-duty* police officer.
I don't care if it was a Circus clown. You attack someone with a knife you're an attempted murderer
Gangs respond with disproportionate overt acts of aggression when they feel their egos bruised even in the slightest
Don't worry the families will get nothing and the cops will get paid out for their incompetence.
Is there ever any conceivable justification for a high-speed pursuit, goin the way on a 6-lane highway?
It’s never the criminal's fault
Have you considered that there may be more than one party at fault? Is that too complicated?
If you're against crime, you have to be for the police, and support everything they do to stop crime. Otherwise you're not really against crime, and people are going to see that people aren't against crime and go do more crime, and society will devolve into anarchy. Or at least that's what you'd believe if you read the last thread on this. This thread (now that there's evidence the cops were *told* to stop) is a bit better.
The people who said that are notably absent from this conversation now that this info has come out.
They *were*. The parent comment here is the third top comment now, and my comment has a little controversial dagger.
Why not both? Fuck the criminal. Fuck the cops involved since this over aggressive use of force was unjustified and they are the paid professionals expected to know better.
The criminal isn't expected to use their vast taxpayer funded arsenal to safely deescilate a dangerous situation.
Kudos to the cop who leaked this and went to the one paper that would present it properly.
Imagine being that bored at work smh
There's an opp detachment in Whitby There's an access road beside the highway There were no excuses for this
they also had the license plate before the chase began. and they also have a helicopter that could have been there in minutes. you’re right: this is inexcusable
Imagine this goes to court and we find out the rental van had a GPS tracker. They would be that reckless.
All they needed was the plate number, which they had. Shouldn't have been any kind of pursuit at all.
Chopper wasn't flying that day, but yes they definitely had enough info to not pursue
Umar Zameer, 401 crash, what's next? I've been falsely accused of a crime once. It turned my life upside down for over a year. Could not find work with pending criminal charges. All for the prosecution to realize there was no case to begin with. My life path is forever changed because of police negligence. N.W.A said it best- Fuck Tha Police
Knew it, because they HAVE to call it off when public safety is at risk. So who ignored those orders?
What is the opposite of protect and serve?
Of course it's another hot headed cop Remind me again why he was chasing them in the first place? That level of incompetency must have been justified by something equally terrible right? Maybe a mass murder?
Pulled a knife on an off-duty doody.
How else are the thugs in blue supposed to get their union mandated adrenaline rush?
Right? Investigating my garage break-in and filing paperwork, boring; high-speed Bad Boyz car chase, bring it on! Too bad people died and it's our tax dollars that are going to used for compensation (not that it will make it right).
When half the force gets off on the speed, and the other half wants to know what a person's insides look like, we all lose and (literally and figuratively) pay
It’s fucking crazy to me they followed the guy onto the 401 going the wrong way. Absolutely fucking crazy. My thoughts go out to the family of the grandparents and toddler lost. I’ll reserve comment on punishment for the police as I appreciate all they do. but it needs to be the most severe so this never happens again.
it’s even crazier that they did it AFTER their supervising officer told them not to
which is not just a dumb idea, but unlawful: > Order to discontinue pursuit > 4 (1) A communications or road supervisor shall order police officers to discontinue a suspect apprehension pursuit if, in his or her opinion, the risk to public safety that may result from the pursuit outweighs the risk to public safety that may result if an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not immediately apprehended or if the fleeing motor vehicle or an individual in the fleeing motor vehicle is not identified. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (1). > (2) A police officer who receives an order under subsection (1) shall obey the order even if the officer is not a member of the police force of the communications or road supervisor who made the order. O. Reg. 266/10, s. 4 (2). https://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/regu/o-reg-266-10/latest/o-reg-266-10.html
fucking hell they fucked up so bad here
does make me wonder if the discontinuation officer was a comms or road supervisor, but orders by other supervisors may still need to be obeyed
They don't do shit... Have you ever been saved by a cop in your life? I've been assaulted an robbed a dozen times... Guess mow many times the cops did anything at all except make me feel stupid for calling them.
A dozen times to my and everyone I knows zero times getting mugged and assaulted. What are we doing wrong?
Sounds like your doing something right
The Durham Region Police chief is being suspiciously silent about this.
Police chiefs can and have made outrageous statements even when SIU investigates Remember that TPS chief tried to paint Umar Zameer as a cold blooded cop killer at a press conference
They are supposed to be while the SIU investigates
They have devastated an entire family, for what, booze? It's so horrifying.
even worse, they really only responded because it was an off-duty cop that called it in. I have never heard cops showing up 6+ deep for some stolen goods.
So it was a power trip? “Don’t persue” “Nah I got this!”
Four people, including a baby, dead over a few thousand dollars worth of beer. These cops should spend the rest of the lives in jail. But nothing will happen. THIS is why people think ACAB.
A case is like $40, they'd need to steal like a ridiculous amount for a few grand
This is all because of a stolen bottle of booze. An off duty cop in the store confronted him and was then "threatened" with a knife. Normally the cops don't give a rats ass about shoplifted booze, but this time they all got their knickers in a twist because the off duty cop got his feelings hurt, so off they go chasing this guy down. 3 innocent lives were lost and dozens are facing the repercussions of being involved in accidents all because these cops overstepped.
I'm just fucking done with all this bullshit. I do not understand why working in the public service makes *some* people completely immune to any accountability or responsibility. I mean just look at all this bullshit. Our MPPs are effectively protected from any accountability for their actions. They can destroy our healthcare system and all we can do is remove them for some new corrupt cunts in a new colour. Then we have our wonderful police departments which seem to be run by testosterone ridden men who do whatever they fucking want, kill whoever they fucking want, without even being *fired* or losing their wages, let alone being charged. Then you have all the corrupt and incompetent overpaid "managers" of the public service like commission CEOs who destroy our public transit, hospitals, and what not and then get a *raise* for doing so. Fuck all this shit, fire them all and reset this bull already. How much more must we see the same fuckups continue to happen before everyone is sick and tired of our tax dollars being used to effectively fund the good lives of objectively terrible people?
Oof, not good.
Sounds like some paid time-off incoming.
vacations: booked
Police officers still chasing suspect are equally responsible for the tragedy as the suspect. These protocols exist to maintain SAFTEY but these pigs just couldn’t turn down an exciting car chase… disgraceful as per usual.
>The 20-minute chase was set off by a robbery at a Bowmanville LCBO, near Green Road and Highway 2, where a man tried to rob the liquor store and “pulled a knife on an off-duty officer,” according to *Durham police.* The same Durham cops that were trying hard to keep their dirty laundry under wraps? And after the Zameer trial, I would take what cops claim with a large grain of salt
They were completely in the right, if that high speed chase going the wrong way down a busy highway had gone right, and they secured the stolen $225, those cops would have been praised as hero’s/s
Cop wanted to play hot pursuit and now this family is destroyed because Mr. Pig decided to chase down $500 worth of money robbed from a LCBO like it was $10M of gold bars. Unnecessary
I hope the victims family sues and the police pay the settlement out of their pension fund.
I’m so disgusted by the police here. Pure ego. They are not fit for the job. I hate them so much for what they did here.
And that's manslaughter.
Pigs and their ego. Still upset about the Umar Zameer verdict.
Reform is needed today. If they can't even follow commands coming from inside the organization, that tells you every you need to know.
This chase was the dumbest decision those cops made...they gonna get sued!
If only they were the ones on the hook for paying, something might change
The police department (aka taxpayers) will pay, not individual officers
Obviously!
I didn’t think it could happen again. But for the millionth time, I am lost for words of what these demented idiots are capable of doing.
Some lawyers about to make bank on this
Ohhhh someone gonna get sued...
Did they chase for bunch of liquor from LCBO?
Get another instance of of our police making their own rules and essentially calling damage in destruction in society. Honesty policing needs to be rewarmed
those cops, and i never use this word, are absolute mongoloids
Cops violating policy and causing harm??!? Imagine my shock 🙄
Jail. It’s the only way they’ll learn
Fucking idiots. I’m sure we’ll hear charges soon I would hope.
They should be charged with manslaughter.
Oh so they gonna throw one officer under the bus when it was 12 cars chasing ? * I haven’t read article yet.. going to read now *
This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder why people seemed to be so ok with police giving anyone at a traffic stop a breathalyzer test. What makes anyone think it wouldn’t just result in some kind of new and creative abuse of power. It always results in some kind of abuse of power. I get wanting to get drunks off the road… but at what cost. It doesn’t really seem to ever work out for anyone who isn’t a cop. I’m a privileged white guy (purely because I’m white) and I know it. Imagine how anyone who isn’t that feels about it.
When tf will we get police reform in Toronto. I work hard to pay taxes and in exchange we get a police force that is more likely to directly cause a fiery crash in the 401, despite supervisor orders, than to return stolen vehicles to their owners. These people are a joke, and a public threat.
I wonder how long until all these cops get together and collude a reason why they continued to pursue when they were instructed not to?
Dude was just trying to "help people with his lights" even though the pursuit was called off. What a fresh take on chasing people driving against traffic.
Where are all the blue line bootlickers in these comments?
Another example of cop Idiocracy leading to deaths Perhaps the cops involved should be charged with first degree murder too? No wait, that only means they'll get years of paid vacation
Can we say lawsuit? This will be ultimately borne by taxpayers.
How many LCBOs were robbed yesterday now that everyone knows noone is chasing?
who cares
And there it fucking is. Everyone on the last thread who tried to offer up "But maybe the cops didn't know" and "What did you want them to do, let the criminals go?!"....can bugger all the way off now. This is the EXACT result I expected. A reckless cop with their blood up keeps chasing after the chase was called off by their superiors.
And yet all I hear from cops is complaints that they aren't allowed to do this
You know I have respect for the police in general but there are some that shouldn’t be in the job. Unfortunately there are some too many.
Many years of paid vacation to come for these officers
If they would’ve stayed back and waited off the highway, they probably would’ve kept the criminals from driving even more erratically!!
People are dead and all this sub can do is gloat? I reserve to hold my judgment until an investigation has actually happened. Were the cops right behind him trying to pull off a pit maneuver or were they 1 km behind keeping their distance?
The fact that this leaked so fast shows that it was a huge failure. For once even other cops are (anonymously) doing something other than hiding behind the thin blue line
ACAB