> The 33-year-old had 11 driving convictions for speeding prior to the deadly collision.
Are we *ever* going to get serious about penalizing bad and dangerous drivers? This tragedy was years in the making and our justice system is complicit.
We’ve created a system where you’ll feel the consequences of your punishment if you’re poor and can’t afford insurance.
For people that can get 11 speeding tickets, and still afford insurance for an Audi R8. The rules are different.
We need those proportional fines like in Finland where what you pay is equivalent to you income. So a $300 fine for an average joe might be a $3000 fine for a Bay St. type, and a $30,000 fine if his boss speeds.
The wealthy wouldn’t riot, but they’d divert all their campaign contributions to the opponents of whatever government enacted proportional fines.
Which is why no government will touch that kind of idea with a 10-foot pole.
The wealthy in this country are pussies. They’d whine on social media, cry to their politically elected leaders but riot? Nah. They would never risk getting their hands dirty like that.
>The wealthy of this country would riot. You can kill someone with your car in canada, and that's how they like it.
The wealthy, riot? Lol, more like the proletariat.
They will never give a shit because lawmakers, their kids, and their friends are usually the ones speeding around in huge SUVs doing the recklessness.
Everybody pays attention to an eye-catching story like this because it’s the polar extreme version of reckless driving causing tragedy. However it’s the regular everyday carelessness and entitlement of drivers that creates tragedies in this city far more often.
There needs to be cops patrolling the 40x highways in ghost cars constantly, for at least a year, pulling over everything that drives like it's a formula 1 track and forcing reckless drivers to face some sort of consequence (other than straight up jail, something like "up to 50 hours" of safe driving school, their name put on a reckless driving registry, forced licence re-testing and more creative but non-punative stuff)
Fuck this. It’s incomprehensible how the penalties are so low for killing someone if that killing happens to be with a car. So fucking tired of this!!!
Vote PC
Edit: The federal government is responsible for enacting criminal law and procedure, including the Criminal Code provisions that govern the law of bail. The hundred or so of you downvoting ain't lawyers I'm guessing. Lol
We've had the PCs in power with a majority government for six years. They have done nothing to address the lack of enforcement by police, done very little to appoint more (provincial) judges, nothing to amend the Highway Traffic Act or laws governing insurance.
Why do you think electing PCs again will do anything?
So why didn't Harper do anything? He was PM when this guy was first charged and bailed out.
Take the blinders off. Unless your a Canadian oligarch neither party is going to have you or the average Canadian in mind when it comes to standard of living.
The only way that will happen is if we get a truly socialist person elected who shuns all corporate buyouts and truly works for the people.
The only thing that makes Liberals marginally better than PC in my mind is they are not trying to create the Canadian version of the bible belt by mentioning religion etc,.
If PCs shut the fuck up about trans/gay/abortion etc, I would vote for them.
Sorry for the rant, but the push for polarism is killing Canada.
My best friend was hit and the guy ran away. Thankful he lived with just minor injury in the end but no video footage so cops said there was nothing they could do.
If you think main roads don’t have enforcement, highways are so much worse. I see people weaving in traffic doing 150+ every day. Sad stuff you really can lose everything from some dickhead driving a car they can’t handle
If you look at r/TorontoDriving a lot of times it's full of people trying to justify going way over the speed limit and then blaming people who drive in the left lane too much. Lots of drivers in this province seem to believe that they can make up the rules as they go along.
Fucking scum of the earth. These drivers need a mandatory 5-10 year sentence behind bars for causing bodily harm/taking someone’s life.
You cause an accident and affect someone else’s life? Spend some time behind bars and lose years off of your own.
People continue to get away with murder here. It’s so fucking disgusting.
Oh, I thought I’d have to wait till July.
Thank you for your service, Madam Justice Anne Molloy.
Edit: Thank you OP for editing your comment after the fact and changing your stance from a definitive five years to “*likely*”
Every time I hear about reckless drivers maiming and killing innocent people, I get angry. That is because I have never been and will never be legally allowed to drive due to vision impairment. People like this need life in prison to prevent them from ending and ruining more lives. Unfortunately, I have heard of people who did not ever spend time in prison after committing manslaughter or only got less than 2 years.
This is a horrible tragedy. My condolences to the victim's family. This case raises important questions about repeat offenders and driving safety. We need harsher penalties for dangerous driving, but also better enforcement.
A one off event is one thing but a pattern of events leading to something needs to be considered at some point as a significantly higher responsibility and culpability
It is hard reading so many crime horror stories which end in death and so little punitive measures taken it doesn't make sense
When the drunk driver who killed my grandparents showed up to his court date, there was another victim of his sitting in court. Sitting forever, as she was in a wheelchair, decapitated from the knees down by this disgusting excuse for a human. He is a free man today, a murderer and decapitator, a destroyer of families. Our system is absolutely broken and is responsible for the re-offenders plaguing our society.
Hot take, ppl say our law is not strong enough to get the man off the road, the only thing to stop him operating a vehicle is to lock him behind bars. A suspension/revoked license is not going to stop him from driving.
There is another way to stop him from operating a vehicle. Each fine should be escalating to the point that he already should've been destitute and unable to even afford a car after 11 offences.
Immediate life sentence for murder. I don’t want to hear the word concurrent anymore in sentencing.
He should receive CONSECUTIVE sentences for the additional offences.
This is a devastating tragic loss. 100% preventable
If you want to ask how money gets out of prison, just ask Mark Muzzo who killed 3 children and a grandmother while drunk.
He didn’t care and still doesn’t. Hell, even fiancée was more concerned about getting married when the Crown asked that he be remanded in custody at the time of accident. That right there should tell you how people with money feel when they kill those of us who don’t.
It’s time to change the way we design cities.
1. Focus on transit and bike lanes
2. Reduce speed limits
3. Add congestion pricing
4. Add higher parking rates for large vehicles
5. Reduce parking is city centres to make way for more housing and pedestrian space
6. Build speed inhibitors into vehicles
My dad used to drive a Dodge Caravan and its top speed was 220 km/h. I don't understand why auto manufacturers aren't legally mandated to limit the top speed on any vehicle that isn't used for emergency services.
Proportional ticket prices could have been a bigger deterrent with 11 prior tickets. Surprised insurance hadn’t already denied coverage after that many infractions.
It shouldn’t be possible to get 11 speeding convictions in a short time period and keep your license. Our points demerits system needs to work better whether the fines deter people or not.
I think in some cases suspending a license is reasonable but the punishment for driving with a suspended license should be jail time. I read the other day about someone who got his license suspended 11 times because he kept driving. Did the courts really think this time would be different?
Who’s in charge of crime again?
>The federal government makes criminal laws that apply across the country and sets the procedure for criminal courts (Constitution Act, 1867, ss. 91(27)).
[source](https://www.justice.gc.ca/socjs-esjp/en/dash-tab/lm-sp#)
Doug Ford has firmly cemented himself in the imaginary "war on the car" as being on the car side, not the human-being side.
People like him like being allowed to kill poor people with their cars. That's their endgame.
A couple weeks ago I was driving on the Gardiner and the guy in front of me merged off onto the Spadina exit then swerved back at me forcing me to swerve left.
The guy behind me decided to try to pass me on the left at the same time and thought I cut him off. He flashed his brights about 8 times then pulled up beside me and prevented me from merging off on my exit.
The Gardiner’s an absolute nightmare to drive on.
> The 33-year-old had 11 driving convictions for speeding
You get your license suspended for just one distracted driving conviction. How did he keep his license with 11 speeding convictions?
As someone who has to take the QEW to Oakville every morning, sometimes I'm legitimately worried that I'll become one of these stories. Between the amount dangerous driving, lack of enforcement and leniency of the justice system, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often than it does.
I think the province has forgotten driving is a privilege not a right. Start taking away that privilege for repeat offenders. Three strikes and your out.
Am i missing something or did she get rear ended by the driver going 122? How slow was she going for it to completely smash the rear end of her car in?
The accident reconstructionist couldn’t establish how fast the Audi was travelling at the time of the first impact but when the second impact happened, it was travelling 122 km/hr
There's no way this guy didn't have rich parents to bail him out the previous 11 times. It's hard to imagine a 33yo would be able to afford the insurance on an R8 with that many convictions. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad owned the car
Yup…. They’re right. It doesn’t make sense because they should’ve been dealt with after repeating offences so many times. There’s no Justice in Canada.
This person should be in jail for life. Maybe Pierre's government can look into this type of scenerio when he becomes PM. He's promising to keep dangerous/repeat offenders in prison.
> The 33-year-old had 11 driving convictions for speeding prior to the deadly collision. Are we *ever* going to get serious about penalizing bad and dangerous drivers? This tragedy was years in the making and our justice system is complicit.
We’ve created a system where you’ll feel the consequences of your punishment if you’re poor and can’t afford insurance. For people that can get 11 speeding tickets, and still afford insurance for an Audi R8. The rules are different.
We need those proportional fines like in Finland where what you pay is equivalent to you income. So a $300 fine for an average joe might be a $3000 fine for a Bay St. type, and a $30,000 fine if his boss speeds.
The wealthy of this country would riot. You can kill someone with your car in canada, and that's how they like it.
The wealthy wouldn’t riot, but they’d divert all their campaign contributions to the opponents of whatever government enacted proportional fines. Which is why no government will touch that kind of idea with a 10-foot pole.
Kevin O’Leary has entered the chat
How dare you. His wife was driving.
The wealthy in this country are pussies. They’d whine on social media, cry to their politically elected leaders but riot? Nah. They would never risk getting their hands dirty like that.
Damn, if they're pussies it's crazy how they get everything they want all the time
Yes, but we do outnumber the rich, we need to start taking a stand together, especially as times start to get tougher.
lol we are never going to stand together. The rich will use our media to distract us or try to blame it on someone else. It works 100% of the time.
The internet is the only possible avenue for revolution, but it's so easy to get infiltrated by bad actors or taken down and disbanded.
That's the problem. It's ridiculous how much benefits the rich get.
>The wealthy of this country would riot. You can kill someone with your car in canada, and that's how they like it. The wealthy, riot? Lol, more like the proletariat.
Punishable by a fine means legal for a price
https://medium.com/@michaeldelamaza/speeding-tickets-in-finland-f90c0a7e785e Laws should be patch notes.
Not until lawmakers or their kids are involved in stuff like this. *Then* they’d give a shit.
The rich and powerful and their kids of tend to be the ones who kill people with their cars, rather than be on the other side.
“That could have been *my* son! (who killed those people)”
They will never give a shit because lawmakers, their kids, and their friends are usually the ones speeding around in huge SUVs doing the recklessness. Everybody pays attention to an eye-catching story like this because it’s the polar extreme version of reckless driving causing tragedy. However it’s the regular everyday carelessness and entitlement of drivers that creates tragedies in this city far more often.
And still they want to give him only a 10 year driving ban wtf, should be lifetime considering his prior actions.
There needs to be cops patrolling the 40x highways in ghost cars constantly, for at least a year, pulling over everything that drives like it's a formula 1 track and forcing reckless drivers to face some sort of consequence (other than straight up jail, something like "up to 50 hours" of safe driving school, their name put on a reckless driving registry, forced licence re-testing and more creative but non-punative stuff)
Stop voting for weak-on-crime politicians.
Fuck this. It’s incomprehensible how the penalties are so low for killing someone if that killing happens to be with a car. So fucking tired of this!!!
His lawyer saying the current penalty is too harsh is a joke. Deserves more prison time and a LIFETIME ban from driving.
This looks like life in prison to me!
He is going to be sentenced to ~ 5 years in prison.
Nah. Closer to 3.
Vote PC Edit: The federal government is responsible for enacting criminal law and procedure, including the Criminal Code provisions that govern the law of bail. The hundred or so of you downvoting ain't lawyers I'm guessing. Lol
We've had the PCs in power with a majority government for six years. They have done nothing to address the lack of enforcement by police, done very little to appoint more (provincial) judges, nothing to amend the Highway Traffic Act or laws governing insurance. Why do you think electing PCs again will do anything?
My guess is u/trooliberal thought those laws were federal and "fUcK tRuDeAu". Probably won't respond lol
8 years of Doug Ford has gotten us this
So why didn't Harper do anything? He was PM when this guy was first charged and bailed out. Take the blinders off. Unless your a Canadian oligarch neither party is going to have you or the average Canadian in mind when it comes to standard of living. The only way that will happen is if we get a truly socialist person elected who shuns all corporate buyouts and truly works for the people. The only thing that makes Liberals marginally better than PC in my mind is they are not trying to create the Canadian version of the bible belt by mentioning religion etc,. If PCs shut the fuck up about trans/gay/abortion etc, I would vote for them. Sorry for the rant, but the push for polarism is killing Canada.
How is there not an automatic lifetime driving ban for someone like this. The prison time is also a joke even if he gets the max. Brutal system.
You think they'll give a shit if they're banned from driving? They'll drive anyways
Charge them with manslaughter rather than dangerous driving.
When it's the obvious outcome of your actions isn't it murder?
Ok they cannot do that. Especially with the outcome of recent events, that set a precedent now with bad case law.
Driving without a license after a suspension should be jail.
Yup. It's bizarre how you can simply stack driving bans.
If you wanna kill someone in Canada without any consequence, do it in a vehicle
We need to redesign our city. Look at Paris, London, even Montreal
We cant ban the police ☠️ they were told to drop the high speed chase because of civilian safety and now civilians are dead.
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We need to make our cities less auto centric.
Crazy it took him 18 days to turn himself in.... like tf
A buddy of mine was killed in a hit and run some years back and the woman who did it wasn't found for months. People are cowards sometimes.
My best friend was hit and the guy ran away. Thankful he lived with just minor injury in the end but no video footage so cops said there was nothing they could do.
Probably needed time to talk to daddy and find a good lawyer.
if it took 18 days to do that, then daddy isn't rich & connected enough
If you think main roads don’t have enforcement, highways are so much worse. I see people weaving in traffic doing 150+ every day. Sad stuff you really can lose everything from some dickhead driving a car they can’t handle
If you look at r/TorontoDriving a lot of times it's full of people trying to justify going way over the speed limit and then blaming people who drive in the left lane too much. Lots of drivers in this province seem to believe that they can make up the rules as they go along.
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Noting their heritage or ethnic background is completely irrelevant.. so yes, it is racist.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
Fucking scum of the earth. These drivers need a mandatory 5-10 year sentence behind bars for causing bodily harm/taking someone’s life. You cause an accident and affect someone else’s life? Spend some time behind bars and lose years off of your own. People continue to get away with murder here. It’s so fucking disgusting.
If you had bothered to read the article you would have learned that it is likely he will receive 5+ years in prison.
The Crown is asking for 5.5 years, but we’ll have to see what he actually gets.
Will probably be closer to 3. Out on day parole in less than a year.
Oh, I thought I’d have to wait till July. Thank you for your service, Madam Justice Anne Molloy. Edit: Thank you OP for editing your comment after the fact and changing your stance from a definitive five years to “*likely*”
Every time I hear about reckless drivers maiming and killing innocent people, I get angry. That is because I have never been and will never be legally allowed to drive due to vision impairment. People like this need life in prison to prevent them from ending and ruining more lives. Unfortunately, I have heard of people who did not ever spend time in prison after committing manslaughter or only got less than 2 years.
This is a horrible tragedy. My condolences to the victim's family. This case raises important questions about repeat offenders and driving safety. We need harsher penalties for dangerous driving, but also better enforcement.
A one off event is one thing but a pattern of events leading to something needs to be considered at some point as a significantly higher responsibility and culpability It is hard reading so many crime horror stories which end in death and so little punitive measures taken it doesn't make sense
Crime but no punishment. Thats the new reality.
You get the justice you can afford
Unless you are defending yourself, then they throw the book at you
Maybe after hitting triple digits in driving convictions, something might happen. Our system does not treat driving as a privilege
It's Canada, repeat offenders of all kinds are free to roam with no repercussions. Our justice system has completely failed the entire country.
When the drunk driver who killed my grandparents showed up to his court date, there was another victim of his sitting in court. Sitting forever, as she was in a wheelchair, decapitated from the knees down by this disgusting excuse for a human. He is a free man today, a murderer and decapitator, a destroyer of families. Our system is absolutely broken and is responsible for the re-offenders plaguing our society.
Hot take, ppl say our law is not strong enough to get the man off the road, the only thing to stop him operating a vehicle is to lock him behind bars. A suspension/revoked license is not going to stop him from driving.
yup he’s just going to drive without insurance now
There is another way to stop him from operating a vehicle. Each fine should be escalating to the point that he already should've been destitute and unable to even afford a car after 11 offences.
What makes u think he will pay the fine and follow the laws?
Immediate life sentence for murder. I don’t want to hear the word concurrent anymore in sentencing. He should receive CONSECUTIVE sentences for the additional offences. This is a devastating tragic loss. 100% preventable
Our country is a joke. This guy should get life behind bars
If you want to ask how money gets out of prison, just ask Mark Muzzo who killed 3 children and a grandmother while drunk. He didn’t care and still doesn’t. Hell, even fiancée was more concerned about getting married when the Crown asked that he be remanded in custody at the time of accident. That right there should tell you how people with money feel when they kill those of us who don’t.
What about the premier of Saskatchewan?
I’m sorry did you forget what province that Toronto is in? Just as a refresher, it’s in Ontario, which is where this happened. Focus.
The law is too damn soft on reckless drivers who end up killing people. I'm so tired of it.
It’s time to change the way we design cities. 1. Focus on transit and bike lanes 2. Reduce speed limits 3. Add congestion pricing 4. Add higher parking rates for large vehicles 5. Reduce parking is city centres to make way for more housing and pedestrian space 6. Build speed inhibitors into vehicles
My dad used to drive a Dodge Caravan and its top speed was 220 km/h. I don't understand why auto manufacturers aren't legally mandated to limit the top speed on any vehicle that isn't used for emergency services.
Proportional ticket prices could have been a bigger deterrent with 11 prior tickets. Surprised insurance hadn’t already denied coverage after that many infractions.
It shouldn’t be possible to get 11 speeding convictions in a short time period and keep your license. Our points demerits system needs to work better whether the fines deter people or not.
I think in some cases suspending a license is reasonable but the punishment for driving with a suspended license should be jail time. I read the other day about someone who got his license suspended 11 times because he kept driving. Did the courts really think this time would be different?
Where's Doug Ford when you actually need someone in power to put a stop to this senseless killing?
Who’s in charge of crime again? >The federal government makes criminal laws that apply across the country and sets the procedure for criminal courts (Constitution Act, 1867, ss. 91(27)). [source](https://www.justice.gc.ca/socjs-esjp/en/dash-tab/lm-sp#)
Doug Ford has firmly cemented himself in the imaginary "war on the car" as being on the car side, not the human-being side. People like him like being allowed to kill poor people with their cars. That's their endgame.
It's always the rich.
I wonder how drunk the guy was
Cars should be forfeited after a certain number of convictions/severity of offence. Regardless of who owns the car being driven.
A couple weeks ago I was driving on the Gardiner and the guy in front of me merged off onto the Spadina exit then swerved back at me forcing me to swerve left. The guy behind me decided to try to pass me on the left at the same time and thought I cut him off. He flashed his brights about 8 times then pulled up beside me and prevented me from merging off on my exit. The Gardiner’s an absolute nightmare to drive on.
Mandatory speed gps speed limiters for anyone convicted of a major speeding offense or multiple offenses within 2 years.
> The 33-year-old had 11 driving convictions for speeding You get your license suspended for just one distracted driving conviction. How did he keep his license with 11 speeding convictions?
It’s time for a major rethink on car culture.
As someone who has to take the QEW to Oakville every morning, sometimes I'm legitimately worried that I'll become one of these stories. Between the amount dangerous driving, lack of enforcement and leniency of the justice system, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often than it does.
I think the province has forgotten driving is a privilege not a right. Start taking away that privilege for repeat offenders. Three strikes and your out.
And they will still drive anyway. I have heard of some that have 5 or more suspensions at the moment the get caught and now get a 6th.
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The fuck
11 previous speeding convictions? Our justice is quite literally a joke.
Cops are roid raging high school dropouts who fucking LOVE high speed chases and beating on civilians. That’s the problem
does he have high insurance? i guess he is also rich
Am i missing something or did she get rear ended by the driver going 122? How slow was she going for it to completely smash the rear end of her car in?
The accident reconstructionist couldn’t establish how fast the Audi was travelling at the time of the first impact but when the second impact happened, it was travelling 122 km/hr
There's no way this guy didn't have rich parents to bail him out the previous 11 times. It's hard to imagine a 33yo would be able to afford the insurance on an R8 with that many convictions. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad owned the car
Yup…. They’re right. It doesn’t make sense because they should’ve been dealt with after repeating offences so many times. There’s no Justice in Canada.
Never confuse a legal system with justice.
Oh I don’t. Not sure anybody does anymore.
We're not allowed to talk about any patterns, eh?
What do you mean?
of course it was an Audi
When did driving cease to be a privilege and become a right?
This person should be in jail for life. Maybe Pierre's government can look into this type of scenerio when he becomes PM. He's promising to keep dangerous/repeat offenders in prison.
Driving offences are provincial not federal. You should as why the Ontario PC party isn't doing anything.
Not true. Dangerous driving is a criminal offence...so federal jurisdiction I would think a professor would know that :))
So, is this like the trolley problem?