That’s because the Montreal Science Centre is amazing and if you visit now you will see it has keep up with technological advances. The Ontario Science Centre is a sad, outdated, sprawling dilapidated beast. Thank God it’s being redone.
Global News is on the case digging for the actual truth (I dont believe what we've heard so far to be nearly the full picture), and in the comments there is another interesting [piece of the puzzle](https://x.com/joshuahind/status/1805604172441501750):
The Ford government says they had to close the Ontario Science Centre because it's unsafe and too difficult to fix. But on May 9, 2024, a permit application was submitted to the City of Toronto for a “museum” at 770 Don Mills Road…
...to fix the roof.
edit - PDF copy of the architecture firm's [statement available here](https://mtarch.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/OntarioScienceCentre_MTA-Statement.pdf).
> a permit application was submitted to the City of Toronto for a “museum” at 770 Don Mills Road…
>
>
>
> ...to fix the roof.
That is clearly a different museum, located outside on the sidewalk in front of the former Ontario Science Centre. It has glass sides, and a leaky roof. Nothing to see here. - Dougie
I strongly suspect Ford's cramming as much money into Ontario place projects so money gets "lost in the sauce" and is difficult for any auditing party to find where what is going to who, and being spent on what.
The best employee sales wise at the chain cannabis dispensary I work at was also the employee with the WORST display and organization, his location was a fucking mess. One time I had to cover there and I cleaned and reorganized the whole place. When he arrived he was furious and I couldn't figure out why and he wouldn't give me an answer. Last week he got fired for theft. Turns out he left the place a fucking mess because if you can't even tell what's there, then you can't tell what's missing.
I think you're right, I think Ontario Place is gunna be a shitshow so it's impossible to tell where all the money is really going.
Since I Cant respond directly to you, no it's not a troll account it's just a different opinion than yours. And if people care as much as you think they do than the numbers would have looked different, not voting is a choice too, and to think if more people voted it would go in the other direction is a wild assumption as well. We truly wouldn't know unless it happened. It's wishfull thinking.
Edit: Reddit is also an echo chamber for everyone, both sides
you must be smarter than that comment made you seem
14% of eligible voters voted for doug
40% of eligible voters even showed up to vote.
do you understand now?
edit: ah, you're a troll account.
I would have thought they wanted the Ontario government to fuck with their cities, especially the north, seeing as they have been “bereft” of attention for decades!
Yeah I doubt it. It's like if Ford was closing down some cultural center in North Bay. Not many people in Toronto would care one way or another. It's mostly people in Toronto that care about Ontario Place & the OSC, and the majority outside will not care.
so the same way toronto feels about every other ontario city.
but yes, the GTA and Durham care. the Science centre and Pioneer village were staples in elementary school.
I’ve lived all over Ontario but mainly the horseshoe area, and the science centre is a very important part of my childhood. I don’t live in Toronto and haven’t for many years, but I am very against this
Yeah because while Doug Ford dismantles public icons for private profit, Trudeau drives down everyone’s wages and standard of living. Doug helps pile on the pain.
the science centre and ontario centre arent the only architectural gems ontario is removing this year. it seems the general trend is that they are removing anything that has its origin in the peacekeeping era of architecture that emerged post-war. its the same school of building that produced some of the public art of the original world trade centres.
they seem like symbols of a socialist past that is no longer welcome. but in their defence, these gemstones of immense cultural value, they really are worth preserving and really do have their place in our cities and towns.
shall we call this the post-peace-era-demolition wave of anti-brutilism?
they said it wasnt operating profitably and the planetarium said "yes we are" and showed their balance sheet and I think the government replied that it wasn't a big enough of a profit so now it has just sat rotting for decades.
at some point it was also a daycare.
Was this the building attached to the ROM by chance? I don't even remember the planetarium but I practically lived there when the Children's Own Museum took over the space (another gem the city screwed to hell and closed)
For those that need to know.
One of the typical strategies for property developers to bypass city laws on destroying and/or removing crucial buildings and or landmarks is through non-upkeep. We have a great deal of laws that actually protect heritage buildings in Toronto, but there is a loop-hole that allows developers to get around this and it's baked into the Ontario Heritage Act as a safeguard against cost overrun of maintaining older buildings.
It's colloquially known as the "let it fall down" exploit and hundreds if not thousands of older historic city buildings have been left to rot then tore down through this loophole.
It appears that Doug Ford's property developer friends have advised him of using the same strategy. With the declaration of damage (with no repair) it allows the Province to head to the "condemned" structure proceeding.
You can call your Local MPP's about this bullshit behaviour. Never thought I would see someone use on a building that is still relatively new and by our own provincial government.
But that's Doug Ford for you.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. People who grew up around the GTA have a lot of fond memories of the Science Centre, as it was a big destination for school trips and such.
Lived in York Region and Simcoe County through most of my youth. Went to the Science Center more than once a year through most of grade school. This may be an anecdote, but OP is painting with a broad brush that doesn't actually give a good picture.
I grew up in Haliburton and we did many trips to the science centre. It was such a fun adventure going to the big city and being allowed to run wild there without supervision.
Yeah, I grew up in Peterborough, and it was a super common destination for us too. Both for school and family trips, so I went there a lot, and always loved spending time there.
I grew up in Huron-Bruce and we would all have to arrive at the school at 7:30am to board the bus to arrive at the science centre around 10:30. It was a big deal. My nephews still live there and also experienced that.
Grew up in Ottawa and feel like most kids there still went to the Science Centre at some point (I certainly did).
Lots of people well outside the GTA have family and/or friends in Toronto that they visit, and the Science Centre has been a staple activity for kid visitors for decades.
Grew up in Northern York Region, yearly trips to science centre as well.
Ford's base are people who get piss drunk and scream at service staff, yes there are lots of those in Barrie, but plenty of people in Toronto voted for Ford.
I wonder if they care that they’re now paying to maintain the gardiner and the DVP because Doug wants his Ontario place plans to go through so badly that he agreed to take on the maintenance of these two Toronto highways in exchange for the city of Toronto’s support of his spa and new science centre location
do you care about barrie? consistently shitting on towns outside of toronto will not help your cause especially when it’s an uniformed opinion just spewing nonsense.
And that's why we haven't given up 👍 There's good precedent for this. A lot of people love the OSC, not just people from TO, so there really is a chance.
They're boundary testing, it's abusing us. They take and take until we complain, then they reverse that one so people forget about all the other things we lost.
Ford took that L because there was a legitimate legal challenge and he won't risk having to go through discovery. Same for Ontario Place. That was Chow's leverage in the DVP deal. The only thing that stops this is a legitimate legal challenge.
The only good news is that our guy might just be crooked and clumsy enough for a legitimate legal challenge to take place. I'm cynical, but I'm also quite interested to see how this all plays out
With DeGasperis having a new development RIGHT across the street, this could turn into a legal challenge PRETTY quickly on corruption and deals for the developer to get the land.
In fact. I'll wager good money that doing this to the OSC earlier than planned is a mea culpa to the developer for the greenbelt back out.
The Greenbelt wasn't perceived as a Toronto issue though. The Science Centre is. Don't get me wrong, I want and I hope that there's some way to make this government reverse their decision. It just feels like a longshot when they've already got the Ontario Place development happening.
>as a Toronto issue though. The Science Centre is
I would argue you underestimate how many Ontarian's go to the OSC and how many schools trips went there. This place was a destination for many people, not just Torontonians.
Ford has flip flopped a ton of times when he faces backlash. And with his recent ad showing him fielding calls from “Ontarans”, let’s give him a taste of his own medicine.
Eh, if the media challenges him every time he or one of his crew get in front of cameras, this isn't going away and has the potential to be the next Greenbelt. And honestly, the only person he will piss off if her reverses course if DeGasperis (temporarily anyways). So I could see it happening if the media is a dog with a bone on this...and what else do they have to fill their news days?
I don’t understand, how tf would this benefit any voter at all? Why would anyone, unless you are DF or one of his developer buddies, be ok with this? Please don’t stop talking about the OSC. This is a fucking public property.
It was considered to be a worthy building material at the time. It's used in [many schools across Ontario](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/hundreds-of-ontario-schools-with-the-same-aging-concrete-as-the-ontario-science-centre-are/article_df6983d2-3251-11ef-862d-b361d337cf3d.html). It would kind of be like judging an architectural firm for including asbestos in their designs 60 years ago.
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The RAAC concrete that was used has only fairly recently been found to be problematic was quite common decades ago. There’s over 360 schools in Ontario that are now being monitored and inspected more.
Wouldn't be so expensive if a proper budget for maintenance and repairs was available. Oh right, one of the first victims of Ford was the repair budget for schools.
It may not swing votes, but I grew up in Montreal - and have fond memories of the science centre! That hair magnet was cooler than wonderland.
That’s because the Montreal Science Centre is amazing and if you visit now you will see it has keep up with technological advances. The Ontario Science Centre is a sad, outdated, sprawling dilapidated beast. Thank God it’s being redone.
Lmao alright there, Dougie.
notice where it was maintained and updated? and didn’t let it rot to the point where it had to be demoed for new condos?
Global News is on the case digging for the actual truth (I dont believe what we've heard so far to be nearly the full picture), and in the comments there is another interesting [piece of the puzzle](https://x.com/joshuahind/status/1805604172441501750): The Ford government says they had to close the Ontario Science Centre because it's unsafe and too difficult to fix. But on May 9, 2024, a permit application was submitted to the City of Toronto for a “museum” at 770 Don Mills Road… ...to fix the roof. edit - PDF copy of the architecture firm's [statement available here](https://mtarch.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/OntarioScienceCentre_MTA-Statement.pdf).
> a permit application was submitted to the City of Toronto for a “museum” at 770 Don Mills Road… > > > > ...to fix the roof. That is clearly a different museum, located outside on the sidewalk in front of the former Ontario Science Centre. It has glass sides, and a leaky roof. Nothing to see here. - Dougie
Glass sides and a leaky roof? Sounds like a modern day condo
Yes but there's more square footage in a bus stop.
That permit's not for the Ontario Science Centre. It's for the uh... [Ontario Science Centre A](https://youtu.be/RYidbrCbK7Q?t=91).
You're a sneaky one!
I strongly suspect Ford's cramming as much money into Ontario place projects so money gets "lost in the sauce" and is difficult for any auditing party to find where what is going to who, and being spent on what.
The best employee sales wise at the chain cannabis dispensary I work at was also the employee with the WORST display and organization, his location was a fucking mess. One time I had to cover there and I cleaned and reorganized the whole place. When he arrived he was furious and I couldn't figure out why and he wouldn't give me an answer. Last week he got fired for theft. Turns out he left the place a fucking mess because if you can't even tell what's there, then you can't tell what's missing. I think you're right, I think Ontario Place is gunna be a shitshow so it's impossible to tell where all the money is really going.
Ford def tried to pull a fast one
There's nothing quick about him.
Again.
On the bright side, Doug Ford is unifying Ontario… …against him.
Finally doing something right
now if only they would vote.
They did vote, and lost lol
Since I Cant respond directly to you, no it's not a troll account it's just a different opinion than yours. And if people care as much as you think they do than the numbers would have looked different, not voting is a choice too, and to think if more people voted it would go in the other direction is a wild assumption as well. We truly wouldn't know unless it happened. It's wishfull thinking. Edit: Reddit is also an echo chamber for everyone, both sides
you must be smarter than that comment made you seem 14% of eligible voters voted for doug 40% of eligible voters even showed up to vote. do you understand now? edit: ah, you're a troll account.
Well atleast unifying Toronto I don't know about rest of Ontario, if they even care about this?
I bet the rest of Ontario is happy he is focused on fucking with Toronto and leaving their cities alone.
I would have thought they wanted the Ontario government to fuck with their cities, especially the north, seeing as they have been “bereft” of attention for decades!
I think they just want more funding without any actual attention.
Yeah I doubt it. It's like if Ford was closing down some cultural center in North Bay. Not many people in Toronto would care one way or another. It's mostly people in Toronto that care about Ontario Place & the OSC, and the majority outside will not care.
so the same way toronto feels about every other ontario city. but yes, the GTA and Durham care. the Science centre and Pioneer village were staples in elementary school.
I’ve lived all over Ontario but mainly the horseshoe area, and the science centre is a very important part of my childhood. I don’t live in Toronto and haven’t for many years, but I am very against this
Yeah but PeePee is gaining ground… 😩
Yeah because while Doug Ford dismantles public icons for private profit, Trudeau drives down everyone’s wages and standard of living. Doug helps pile on the pain.
This is what happens when you put conservatives in charge
Ah yes. The Putin strategy. Brillant.
Unfortunately most of Ontario doesn't care and would still vote for this pos
Make no mistake that Doug Ford is hiding corruption and this is why he wants it shut down. No doubt made a back room deal with a developer in some way
I mean the French are shitting in the bay, tell me where I need to shit to save the science center and I’ll do it. Fords front lawn?
The roof of his cottage 😉
Where is the cottage? To avoid the area, of course.
Masoka. It's a lakefront cottage.
Pockets have been filled for the second time, it's too late already. He goofed the hwy to nowhere.
this fat sack of shit is making mike haris seem like Ghandi.
the science centre and ontario centre arent the only architectural gems ontario is removing this year. it seems the general trend is that they are removing anything that has its origin in the peacekeeping era of architecture that emerged post-war. its the same school of building that produced some of the public art of the original world trade centres. they seem like symbols of a socialist past that is no longer welcome. but in their defence, these gemstones of immense cultural value, they really are worth preserving and really do have their place in our cities and towns. shall we call this the post-peace-era-demolition wave of anti-brutilism?
Whatever happened to the planetarium?
they said it wasnt operating profitably and the planetarium said "yes we are" and showed their balance sheet and I think the government replied that it wasn't a big enough of a profit so now it has just sat rotting for decades. at some point it was also a daycare.
Was this the building attached to the ROM by chance? I don't even remember the planetarium but I practically lived there when the Children's Own Museum took over the space (another gem the city screwed to hell and closed)
yes that one :'(
Another victim of the Harris Conservative cutbacks.
Gutted and it was being used for storage.
Everyone's coming together to force Dougie to reveal his corruption (or say chicken)
The power of positive clicks 🇨🇦🤙
CN Tower is next. It also needs repairs. Move that closer to Fords house too. lol
For those that need to know. One of the typical strategies for property developers to bypass city laws on destroying and/or removing crucial buildings and or landmarks is through non-upkeep. We have a great deal of laws that actually protect heritage buildings in Toronto, but there is a loop-hole that allows developers to get around this and it's baked into the Ontario Heritage Act as a safeguard against cost overrun of maintaining older buildings. It's colloquially known as the "let it fall down" exploit and hundreds if not thousands of older historic city buildings have been left to rot then tore down through this loophole. It appears that Doug Ford's property developer friends have advised him of using the same strategy. With the declaration of damage (with no repair) it allows the Province to head to the "condemned" structure proceeding. You can call your Local MPP's about this bullshit behaviour. Never thought I would see someone use on a building that is still relatively new and by our own provincial government. But that's Doug Ford for you.
>Preliminary analysis has identified a new building at half the size, such as the one proposed for the Ontario Place site,.... Priorities eh.
For Doug this will have little consequence. Toronto is not his base. People in Barrie do not care about the Science Centre
I don't know if that's necessarily true. People who grew up around the GTA have a lot of fond memories of the Science Centre, as it was a big destination for school trips and such.
Lived in Kingston. We would go to the science centres in both Ottawa and Toronto. Ontario Science Centre was always the best trip
Lived in York Region and Simcoe County through most of my youth. Went to the Science Center more than once a year through most of grade school. This may be an anecdote, but OP is painting with a broad brush that doesn't actually give a good picture.
I grew up in Haliburton and we did many trips to the science centre. It was such a fun adventure going to the big city and being allowed to run wild there without supervision.
Yeah, I grew up in Peterborough, and it was a super common destination for us too. Both for school and family trips, so I went there a lot, and always loved spending time there.
I grew up in Huron-Bruce and we would all have to arrive at the school at 7:30am to board the bus to arrive at the science centre around 10:30. It was a big deal. My nephews still live there and also experienced that.
You are right, but his point was Doug isn't trying to win over Toronto/GTA, clearly it doesn't matter for him.
Not true. My elementary school in Richmond Hill did class field trips to the Ontario Science Centre, and so did other elementary schools in the area.
I mean technically his seat is in Etobicoke so that should be his "base"...
He doesn't need to win them over. He is a god to them.
Grew up in Ottawa and feel like most kids there still went to the Science Centre at some point (I certainly did). Lots of people well outside the GTA have family and/or friends in Toronto that they visit, and the Science Centre has been a staple activity for kid visitors for decades.
its the ontario science centre. not the toronto science centre
Grew up in Northern York Region, yearly trips to science centre as well. Ford's base are people who get piss drunk and scream at service staff, yes there are lots of those in Barrie, but plenty of people in Toronto voted for Ford.
I wonder if they care that they’re now paying to maintain the gardiner and the DVP because Doug wants his Ontario place plans to go through so badly that he agreed to take on the maintenance of these two Toronto highways in exchange for the city of Toronto’s support of his spa and new science centre location
for what its worth I live around Barrie and have heard multiple public conversations where people hate Trudeau & Doug Ford. I was surprised.
do you care about barrie? consistently shitting on towns outside of toronto will not help your cause especially when it’s an uniformed opinion just spewing nonsense.
Check the map yo: https://results.elections.on.ca/en/graphics-charts
election results from 2 years ago are irrelevant.
I truly appreciate the effort, but realistically the Ford government is just going to ignore everyone anyway. Their decision has already been made.
Ford reversed on the greenbelt, based at least in-part on public outcry. There is hope if enough people are vocal.
Yep, literally all this government does is backpedal after making stupid decisions.
While making stupid decisions in the first place isn’t great… going back on them seems like what we should want them to do?
And that's why we haven't given up 👍 There's good precedent for this. A lot of people love the OSC, not just people from TO, so there really is a chance.
They're boundary testing, it's abusing us. They take and take until we complain, then they reverse that one so people forget about all the other things we lost.
That's assuming he only reverses his stupid decisions once
Ford took that L because there was a legitimate legal challenge and he won't risk having to go through discovery. Same for Ontario Place. That was Chow's leverage in the DVP deal. The only thing that stops this is a legitimate legal challenge.
The only good news is that our guy might just be crooked and clumsy enough for a legitimate legal challenge to take place. I'm cynical, but I'm also quite interested to see how this all plays out
With DeGasperis having a new development RIGHT across the street, this could turn into a legal challenge PRETTY quickly on corruption and deals for the developer to get the land. In fact. I'll wager good money that doing this to the OSC earlier than planned is a mea culpa to the developer for the greenbelt back out.
The Greenbelt wasn't perceived as a Toronto issue though. The Science Centre is. Don't get me wrong, I want and I hope that there's some way to make this government reverse their decision. It just feels like a longshot when they've already got the Ontario Place development happening.
>as a Toronto issue though. The Science Centre is I would argue you underestimate how many Ontarian's go to the OSC and how many schools trips went there. This place was a destination for many people, not just Torontonians.
Yes! Please send letters and spam our government officials about this. Keep it in the media https://savesciencecentre.com/
The city owns the land so there is a possibility the building could be saved and used by the city
Here's hoping
Ford has flip flopped a ton of times when he faces backlash. And with his recent ad showing him fielding calls from “Ontarans”, let’s give him a taste of his own medicine.
Eh, if the media challenges him every time he or one of his crew get in front of cameras, this isn't going away and has the potential to be the next Greenbelt. And honestly, the only person he will piss off if her reverses course if DeGasperis (temporarily anyways). So I could see it happening if the media is a dog with a bone on this...and what else do they have to fill their news days?
I don’t understand, how tf would this benefit any voter at all? Why would anyone, unless you are DF or one of his developer buddies, be ok with this? Please don’t stop talking about the OSC. This is a fucking public property.
Anything can be fixed. Just a matter of how much money you want to throw at it.
We know it's not even about the roof, he was pushing it to close so much earlier, this some shady shit
repair the building or replace the building they want to make it into a physics experiment
"The roof, The roof, The roof is on fire! We don't need no water let the..."
Unless someone writes a check to Ford himself or his developer buddies, nothing will get done.
That land is already sold to developers. They just haven't made it official yet because it would look like another Ford fiasco.
Please explain to me why someone would choose to vote for Doug Ford today. After everything he has done?
What happened to cause all this ? ( sorry late to party)
Doug Ford just wants the land for his friends. Robbing Torontonian children of their education and entertainment to line his pockets.
Fantastic! I hope this works.
Explain how an architect gives an opinion about the structural integrity of a structure? That’s something an engineer does, not an architect!
Not for anything but I wouldn't trust the firm that kinda bamboozled the roof in the first place to fix it again. Didn't they use faulty concrete?
It was considered to be a worthy building material at the time. It's used in [many schools across Ontario](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/hundreds-of-ontario-schools-with-the-same-aging-concrete-as-the-ontario-science-centre-are/article_df6983d2-3251-11ef-862d-b361d337cf3d.html). It would kind of be like judging an architectural firm for including asbestos in their designs 60 years ago.
/r/Toronto and the Toronto Public Library encourage you to support local journalism if you are financially in a position to do so - otherwise, you can access many paywalled articles with a TPL card ([get a Digital Access card here](https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/register/)) through the [TPL digital news resources](https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/books-video-music/downloads-ebooks/digital-newspapers.jsp). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/toronto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The RAAC concrete that was used has only fairly recently been found to be problematic was quite common decades ago. There’s over 360 schools in Ontario that are now being monitored and inspected more.
Dang. That's gonna be an expensive bill coming up.
Wouldn't be so expensive if a proper budget for maintenance and repairs was available. Oh right, one of the first victims of Ford was the repair budget for schools.