> You can also get it delivered and if the strike continues
This is good but will be delayed and kill their logistics if there is high demand.
> if the strike continues on for more than 2 weeks some stores will reopen
30 Stores in the province limited hours Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
Jokingly this might be Fords last attempt to give beer store more profit before the contract ending and payout.
Not really, they're just going to hire more shitty temp delivery workers, or "contractors" to fill the demand.
Ironically, this strike may very well end up pushing a lot of the LCBOs business, both in the perspective of the company and the consumer, to online.
Which would probably mean less in-store jobs .....
>Jokingly this might be Fords last attempt to give beer store more profit before the contract ending and payout.
Seriously its probably also the reason he gave away a bunch of our tax dollars to get out of the contract with the beer store
LCBO says free home deliveries will still be available. This might actually get more people to realize that is an option that they realize physical LCBO isnt as necessary other than last minute shopping.
Tried the delivery service and never again. Had to wait almost a week, and they donāt tell you when theyāre coming, so if you happen to be in the shower, or out getting food, too bad. Not there when they randomly arrive? Sorry.
I think the free home delivery system will fall apart if enough people use it. A single warehouse in Peel Region can't replace every LCBO in the province.
And we seem to have a fair amount of distilleries around so I think we should be fine!
And if youāre around Oakville, go get some Maverick Barn burner whiskey! You can also order online!
The SAQ has different selections, but I wouldn't call it deeper than the LCBO. Compare the regular shelves, sure, but Vintages blows SAQ out of the water.
Ford doesnāt care he wants lcbo shut down anyways this literally hands him more ammo to get alcohol in convenience stores also ādry summerā is extremely misleading
The beer store will still be open the wine store several grocery stores sell alcohol hell go to the bar and itās half assed anyway because itās just a temporary 2 week thing (I know limited stores and hours) point still stands Iām all for striking but this is the lamest strike thatās ever been
The problem I see is the LCBO doesn't have any public support. Most people want to be able to buy alcohol in more places, even a lot of worker friendly pro union types.
i was told that >60% of their employees are now classified as casual part-time, and have no guarantees as to if they'll be scheduled to work during any week. apparently permanent part-time positions were eliminated some years ago (and people want those back). employees are also against ford's moves towards privatizing the lcbo--people think it would further destabilize working conditions (i don't want to see lcbo jobs turn into like tim horton's jobs); privatization would also stop lcbo profits from going towards public expenditure. anyway, those were some of the things i was told. i love lcbo employees (they're consistently nice and chill and even the older employees don't seem to hate their job) and i support them.
Apparently the job security and pay requirements were already negotiated and agreed to prior to the strike deadline, what those are of course we don't know, but they were agreed to. The line in the sand that the union seems to be drawing is that they don't want liquor based seltzers to be sold outside of the LCBO, which seems like a pretty ludicrous hill to die on at this point.
OPSEU could be ensuring that their members are taken care of during private alcohol sales, but instead they chose to attack private sales themselves. With online and existing private sales, the union doesn't have the bargaining power they once did, and their actions give the government an excuse to accelerate their strategy. They're going for broke and banking on a popular backlash against Ford which I think simply isn't going to happen.
The key Union issue is allowing those 5% seltzer (vodka based) drinks to be allowed to be sold in corner/convenient stores. Not the hard liquor as that is not on the table for corner stores... Those seltzer drinks are all the rage and even I, a long-time beer drinker prefer it over beer which causes more 'bloat'.
People in Toronto acting like privatization means Doug is giving his friends money. Theyāre aware taxes exist, and stores still need to source it from the LCBO right?
Iām sure all of these people also only buy their weed from the OCS website and never at a brick and mortar store since the government doesnāt have any.
The LCBO makes money as a retailer for the government, if the LCBO is privatized, those 2.5 billion per year are gone. It's also wild people want 10,000 jobs to just vanish and be replaced so they can buy vodka at the same place they buy smokes.
If the LCBO is still going to generate the same 2.5 billion then where is the private profit coming from? They'll have to raise the price. Either we lost that 2.5 billion, or we get ripped off even more at the cash register. This is what we call a lose/lose.
If they do, prices will go up because the private point of sale will want a profit. Unlike the LCBO they don't work for the government but rather their owners/shareholders. There is zero cost benefit to privatization. There's also the 10,000 jobs I mentioned earlier. 10,000. I honestly don't see why we should ruin 10,000 jobs just to pay *more* for beer. It's sheer stupidity.
Yea. Alot of ppl just assuming it's privatizing the LCBO. That's what I heard on one of the AM radio shows the hill to die on is that. No White Claws allowed in local stores.
Crazy that this is the deal breaker. Lcbo has conceded on all the other items (to some degree) but the union committed to the strike due to seltzers.
Must be some political party at works to not allow doug meet his campaign promises
That too but I'm also guessing those seltzers are the hottest thing going. I'm in my 40s and always drank old lager/pilsner beer (Labatt, Laker, Export, Canadian). Never really got into others.. But in recent times, have also switched over to seltzers. Much cleaner, less bloat, etc.
If those can switch some stubborn person like me, it must be very popular.. the Seltzers prob draw in the crowds so while at LCBO, they'll also pick up other types while there.
He should have tightened liquor laws to drive up sales at the LCBO. Then he could use some of that to work on the surgery backlog and much needed health staff. Or help the schools out. Maybe give the libraries a bit more funding. Invest in opening more public beds for the elderly. Make ODSP livable. Publicly fund rehab centres.
Hahah. Jk. Obviously he isnāt interested in doing any of that.
Am I in a tinfoil hat thinking this is the best way to start the privatization ball rolling? Privatize alcohol sales so it's more readily available, a sure fire way to please us plebs. Then move on to bigger ticket items...
Exactly what does privatization accomplish?
Is it just about convenience and availability?
Or is there an expectation that this will somehow lower prices?
Privatization always promises better service and/or lower prices, but I can't think of any privatization that made anything better, except perhaps British Leyland is better now because there is no British Leyland.
Along with their "vertical integration" (massive conflicts of interest) imagine the creative book keeping that goes on when you own the team, the show, the TV channel, and the service provider, and many of your ads are for your own products.
"hey shareholders look at all the money we made!"(buying from ourselves)
"hey tax man, look how much money we had to spend!"(buying from ourselves)
I think itās unlikely to *materially* lower prices since most have a floor, but higher end stuff may come down. The biggest thing to me is opening up selection. There is one single specialty liquor store in Calgary that has 15x as many mezcals as the entire province of Ontario. There are tons of common wines available at corner wine stores in the U.S. that you canāt find anywhere here. Most people donāt even realize how bad we have it with the LCBO because they havenāt experienced anything different.
I bet the same thing goes the other way around in those US stores. A lot of our LCBOs have quite an extensive and varied selection. And if itās not enough at your local store you can order online. That store in Calgary seems like a one off. At many liquor stores in BC and Alberta Iāve been very underwhelmed. Not saying itās the best it could be here but talking about selection itās quite good. Iād just like cross province craft beer to be a thing but thatās a whole other shit show.
I would strongly disagree. Selection at most individual LCBOs is terrible, and province-wide is still not good. This is true of both wine and spirits. Aside from the mezcal example (the fastest growing spirit for like 6 years now, but the LCBO has barely expanded its inventory, most stores donāt even have *one* kind, let alone a section. My closest LCBO has so few tequilas that they just put them under the āginā section, becauseā¦I guess theyāre both clear?), even things like rum are sorely lacking. Most stores are like a WalMart and have the illusion of large selection, but really just have a lot of the same, low end, highly interchangeable products.
You can make the wild assumption that my experiences are one-offs, but thatās the beauty of if they opened up competition; we could have both specialty stores that provided great access to specific products, and the mass produced WalMart style LCBO. Or, we could make the LCBO actually good! Nova Scotia has a population smaller than Ottawa and yet individual NSLCs have better selection than our entire province on many products. Itās so Ontarian/Canadian that weāve been gaslit into thinking itās actually good.
The question is, what if they didnāt though?
Also, even if they did, private vendors could push for broader inventory. LCBO is laughably bad at responding to retail demand.
They would. Meanwhile, LCBO is the largest buying group on the planet and they don't even ask for discounts from vendors, because why would you, it's just taxpayer revenue and money.
It's pretty sad that they always brag about being the largest buying group on the planet and we somehow also have some of the most expensive booze on the planet
When your business model relies on high prices, you're going to get high prices. People here really think the LCBO is god's gift to man meanwhile private booze stores work just fine outside of Canada - in several countries. Brain worms.
You'll never convince these die-hards who at best have only travelled to the local Timmies nevermind another province. The downvotes are super telling of an uneducated voting body.
I think these threads also attract a lot of people who work for the LCBO in some capacity so they're biased. Most people I know in real life recognize how ridiculous it is that we have a liquor monopoly and how high our alcohol prices are
Being a monopoly the lcbo has very little incentive to actually provide an attractive selection to consumers on their shelves. It would be great to have options that are more focused on craft beer or what have you.
Yup, the selection is okay but if you're actually really into any specific alcohol you'll realize it's pretty awful. For example, I really like bourbon, and the selection is pretty awful if you actually want to start trying out new whiskeys/collecting. Would be great to have some specialty whiskey stores open up with better selections.
For one of the world's largest purchaser of alcohol, the LCBO does a pretty poor job at procurement. Their Bourbon/Scotch selection has been dreadful since forever. It's not like they have to do it in a cost-efficient manner either since they are a monopoly and can just mark up the prices. So why are they doing such a poor job that appointing any random Redditor from one of these spirits hobbyist subreddits for the task of procuring products would've been an improvement?
Iām worried about the potential downsides of privatization, but the beer selection could be so, so much better. Sierra Nevada is gone, but Bellās might be coming. More Boon and Girardin would be great, too.
So the store that is known for making alcohol less available and convenient to buy wants the public to support them by not selling any booze? The LCBO union has lost the plot if they think this will do anything but further the support of selling booze elsewhere.
I feel like Toronto is the only place that thinks this. Literally everyone else Iāve spoken to thinks privatizing makes sense.
For someone reason people here think this means redirecting money from the government to Dougyās friendās pockets. You guys are aware there will still be taxes on it right? And those private stores still need to source it from the LCBO?
People dislike Doug Ford. I get that, I disagree with 99.99% of what he does. But this makes sense.
I think at this point itās safe to assume that everything Dougie does is about redirecting money into his friendsā pockets. We have enough data points to accurately forecast.
Definitely. But I fail to see how in this case.
1. Itās pre-prepared alcohol only.
2. Hard liquor continues to be from the LCBO
3. Stores that sell it still must go to the LCBO. Same with bars and restaurants.
Agree with your point, people point to LCBO bringing in 2.5 billion dollars......yeah and they still will. Being able to sell liqour doesnt mean every corner store is going to be decked out with every single bottle thats available, the LCBO will still serve a purpose just as the beer store will.
Personally I'm okay with private liquor sales. I'd be willing to pay more for the convenience. Being able to buy liquor after 6 on a Sunday would be cool
I'd 100% love for the city and province to be less puritan about booze. I don't see why they couldn't do that without having us to pad a markup for grocery margins.
>You guys are aware there will still be taxes on it right?
Yes, but the $2.5B LCBO provides that people are referring to is dividends generated by net income from operations. The tax is on top of that.
>And those private stores still need to source it from the LCBO?
This defeats the purpose of privatizing it. What is the benefit then? Stores might be open a couple more hours a week?
If we are going to privatize it, why half ass it? In your situation Now we have a government monopoly in the middle of the supply chain which would either generate less funds for the government or increase consumer prices.
Go all the way and let stores source from the manufacturer. Allow stores to order niche alcohols like they do in the US. Keeping the LCBO as middle man while adding another layer to the supply chain will just increase costs.
While in principle I don't like the idea of a government monopoly, the LCBO rakes in $2.5B in net income annually for the Ontario Gov which helps fund public programs and services including health care, education, and infrastructure.
If the LCBO didn't exist then they would find another avenue to squeeze that money from us, and I don't trust the government to find an equitable way to do that.
If you only common drink beer/seltzers/common wine, then sure, it shouldn't continue.
but have you ever tried to find a specific bottle of wine in the US? and had to check 8 different websites inventory to see if they carry it?
sure lcbo is not without it's problems, but I don't think ford is competent enough to roll out a privatization model that works
So the argument for the lcbo is that you only have to check one website to see they donāt carry the product vs having a choice of checking multiple sites with varied product mixes?Ā
It kinda fucks over restaurants/bars as we also have to source our booze from the LCBO. Many places will be running out of the most popular stuff quickly.
Get your Jameson shots now. Lol
I heard on the radio alcohol deliveries to restaurant/bars is continuing according to the LCBO themselves:
>An LCBO strike does not impact the approximately 2,300 private retail points of sale across the province, including through LCBO Convenience Outlets, licensed grocery stores, The Beer Store, and winery, brewery, cidery, and distillery outlets, as well as at bars and restaurants.
https://www.lcbo.com/en/potential-strike
These guys are striking themselves out of a job. Imagine that - LCBO workers want to maintain a monopoly over alcohol sales. They have no specialized skills and yet somehow alcohol should only be handled by them. The weirdest labour dispute ever.
Serious question here. If we are buying our booze from grocery stores and other shops why should we garentee jobs to the LCBO employees? It doesn't make any financial sense...
No and no lol.
Iām sick of the premier praising about how many jobs they created by enticing āinvestmentā in Ontario. By privatizing liquor theyāre actively de-investing in Ontario. This is literally thousands of jobs that may disappear at the cost of nearly a quarter billion.
Theyāre asking why we the union is fighting to guarantee jobs.
That implies closing stores and offices. The implications of privatizing liquor is that the LCBO would be an unnecessary cost to the province and would be pushed to close down stores. Why keep these expensive stores open when the private companies can do the same job at no cost to you???
The union is trying to do its job.
This is pretty clearly just JP Hornicke trying to spite Ford due to the personal animosity between them. Itās looking like Ontarians broadly are the ones who will pay the price.
āhow can we make sure the public will be in even more support of having liquor available everywhere while also making them hate us even more?ā
opseau: hold my beer
One of the handful of essential requirements for the public during covid. Not a concern when there's a slight concern for higher wages for staff any other time.
This is what I've been thinking about too, I distinctly remember them saying "we're essential because it's dangerous for addicts to go into withdrawls", and now? eff them addicts. I'm pro-unions, pro-striking, but COVID wasn't that long ago that I've forgotten.
Going on strike doesn't make them non-essential, it means they should have more leverage to negotiate. It's like the TTC going on strike, they're not doing it to fuck people over but in the hopes that the employer will come to terms quicker to mitigate any problems for the customers.
I felt the govt knew if it kept them closed during covid, support for lockdowns would crash pretty fast.
A lot of people got through lockdowns by drinking away really.
End the LCBO.Ā Having lived in a couple countries with open markets and working in the alc industry, the LCBO is just such an inefficient, outdated, Puritan system.
Alcohol would be still be taxed and also, all the business owners who would operate in the space would pay taxes, tooĀ
Trust me, plenty of suits in LCBO who don't do shit and get bribed and pampered all year long by global alcohol players have lovely mansions in Muskoka, too.
Those are the suits in every company. Do you really think that will change with privatization? It'll just be more of them.
And what is it with everyone naively making the argument that private businesses will definitely pay their fair share of taxes over a Crown Corp? When has that ever happened in our neoliberal society?
IIRC, 4% of Ontarians are "alcoholics" and 14% are heavily dependent on alcohol (Fact check if you have better/updated #s). I know there are alternatives like Beer Store, Wine Rack and breweries/wineries but I predict some ppl will go apeshit with the absence of hard liquor over 2 weeks... There's a reason that LCBOs stayed open during the pandemic.
Can we talk about the fact that how people working cash at a liquor store are unionized?! Honestly rooting for Ford on this one, time to disband the entire chain and allow any licensed store to carry liquor.
I remember during covid when the LCBO union agreed with the government that all the stores were āessentialā and had to remain open because some people could die without access to the alcohol they are dependent on.
Iām not arguing that fact, I know alcohol withdrawal can be deadly, itās sad that the LCBO staff and union have decided to go this way to try and have the public apply pressure to Doug Ford when we all know Doug Ford doesnāt give a shit about the people in Ontario unless they are hyper wealthy and have the ability to kick back money into his pockets to get him to do what they want him to do.
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These good for nothings get paid enough already. Find a better job instead of striking. Bunch of wastrels.
Time for self checkout and international students taking over.
Normally, no. But the LCBO seems to be staffed by real pricks for some reason. Like the worst fucking service imaginable. The province would be better off without them.
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Ford's dry summer? Sounds like a case for Rex Banner. Pet shops beware. šµļøāāļø
I'll get you beer baron. ^no ^^you ^^^won't I will! ^won't
One of the single best exchanges in the entire show. I laugh every time.
āDoug Ford shows off new hat as if to say āLook at me LCBO, I have a new hatāā.
What kind of pet shop is filled with rambunctious yahoos and hot jazz at 1am?!
The best damn pet shop in town!
Itās a pornography store. I was buying pornography.
Who wants a bathtub mint julep?
They ain't gonna stick around for the ambiance!
Well, you all know what laughter sounds like..
Conspiracy theory. Ford : āLCBO is striking , wouldnāt it be nice if you could buy your vodka from your local corner store/loblaws? ā
You're out there for some where beer barron....
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Everything the former drug dealer does seems to benefit organized crime
"Fords dry summer" sounds like a bootleg straight to VHS movie from the 90s; trying to follow that wet hot american summer trail
It's not Ford's choice to strike, it's the monopoly's.
It's not exactly 'dry' when we can head over to our local breweries, wineries and grocery stores.
You can also get it delivered and if the strike continues on for more than 2 weeks some stores will reopen
> You can also get it delivered and if the strike continues This is good but will be delayed and kill their logistics if there is high demand. > if the strike continues on for more than 2 weeks some stores will reopen 30 Stores in the province limited hours Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Jokingly this might be Fords last attempt to give beer store more profit before the contract ending and payout.
Not really, they're just going to hire more shitty temp delivery workers, or "contractors" to fill the demand. Ironically, this strike may very well end up pushing a lot of the LCBOs business, both in the perspective of the company and the consumer, to online. Which would probably mean less in-store jobs .....
>Jokingly this might be Fords last attempt to give beer store more profit before the contract ending and payout. Seriously its probably also the reason he gave away a bunch of our tax dollars to get out of the contract with the beer store
It's like less than 5 percent of stores for reduced hours and reduced days, would probably recommend another avenue
To illustrate this, it would be like a normal day at the Warden Costco level of chaos and stress.
Chaos and stress? Are you telling me you don't love lining up for an hour to buy slightly discounted gas?
Iām sure the employees will love it lmao
It will be store managers working I believe. The non union employees.
I am guessing they will be contracted employees that won't really give a shit to begin with.
The ultimate chaos comparator
Only vintages are being delivered for the 2 weeks. After limited pikx up hours, 30 stores province wide, and slower than usual delivery.
ā¦and of course The Beer Store.
Beer Store about to get a massive boost
LCBO says free home deliveries will still be available. This might actually get more people to realize that is an option that they realize physical LCBO isnt as necessary other than last minute shopping.
only issue is the 5 day delivery wait time, I guess better than no access though.
Tried the delivery service and never again. Had to wait almost a week, and they donāt tell you when theyāre coming, so if you happen to be in the shower, or out getting food, too bad. Not there when they randomly arrive? Sorry.
That's actually hilarious. The strike might take a while but I think it'll work.
Do they not still use Purolator? Last time I ordered online I got a tracking number and got it within 2 days. Are you in Toronto?
I think the free home delivery system will fall apart if enough people use it. A single warehouse in Peel Region can't replace every LCBO in the province.
Delivery is still from the stores, not sure how staffing works for that though.
Theyāre going to deliver from stores too? Yeah I have no idea how theyāre going to do that.
Seriously. I'll go this route if necessary.
Donāt forget distilleries!
Yeah, not many people are going to do that because of convenience..
And we seem to have a fair amount of distilleries around so I think we should be fine! And if youāre around Oakville, go get some Maverick Barn burner whiskey! You can also order online!
Can i get vodka there too?
LCBO Convenience Outlets and similar licenced stores (like at Highway 7 and Westney) are also still open if you want spirits.
Also The Beer Store, which is everywhere.
In Ottawa for the week and am kinda shocked by the lack of grocery stores that a booze-filled (relative to Toronto that is).
Because people will just drive to Quebec. And besides it's taxed less in Quebec.
And the SAQ actually has a broad / deep selection, unlike the LCBO where every other shelf has 200 bottles of Girls Night Out or Yellowtail
The SAQ has different selections, but I wouldn't call it deeper than the LCBO. Compare the regular shelves, sure, but Vintages blows SAQ out of the water.
Have you never gone to an LCBO with a vintage release section?
*of wine
In Ottawa youāve got a province next door where you can buy booze anywhere.
Not spirits
Looks like free shopping on lcbo websiteĀ
Weāll be fine. My buddy Slavko is dusting off his still now.
We have a small distillery in my town. Iām wondering if those LCBO set ups in gas stations in remote areas are also closed.
Those outlets which are privately run, will stay open as long as they have alcohol to sell. So most of them will be closed later today.
Slavko's still doesn't have dust on it, it's well used.
Ford doesnāt care he wants lcbo shut down anyways this literally hands him more ammo to get alcohol in convenience stores also ādry summerā is extremely misleading The beer store will still be open the wine store several grocery stores sell alcohol hell go to the bar and itās half assed anyway because itās just a temporary 2 week thing (I know limited stores and hours) point still stands Iām all for striking but this is the lamest strike thatās ever been
The problem I see is the LCBO doesn't have any public support. Most people want to be able to buy alcohol in more places, even a lot of worker friendly pro union types.
i was told that >60% of their employees are now classified as casual part-time, and have no guarantees as to if they'll be scheduled to work during any week. apparently permanent part-time positions were eliminated some years ago (and people want those back). employees are also against ford's moves towards privatizing the lcbo--people think it would further destabilize working conditions (i don't want to see lcbo jobs turn into like tim horton's jobs); privatization would also stop lcbo profits from going towards public expenditure. anyway, those were some of the things i was told. i love lcbo employees (they're consistently nice and chill and even the older employees don't seem to hate their job) and i support them.
Apparently the job security and pay requirements were already negotiated and agreed to prior to the strike deadline, what those are of course we don't know, but they were agreed to. The line in the sand that the union seems to be drawing is that they don't want liquor based seltzers to be sold outside of the LCBO, which seems like a pretty ludicrous hill to die on at this point.
OPSEU could be ensuring that their members are taken care of during private alcohol sales, but instead they chose to attack private sales themselves. With online and existing private sales, the union doesn't have the bargaining power they once did, and their actions give the government an excuse to accelerate their strategy. They're going for broke and banking on a popular backlash against Ford which I think simply isn't going to happen.
Would be nice to have better hours and be able to purchase on holidays as well. I'm just hoping for alcohol at Costco like Quebec.
The key Union issue is allowing those 5% seltzer (vodka based) drinks to be allowed to be sold in corner/convenient stores. Not the hard liquor as that is not on the table for corner stores... Those seltzer drinks are all the rage and even I, a long-time beer drinker prefer it over beer which causes more 'bloat'.
That would be great, I'd love to be able to pick up seltzers and beers at corner stores
Only Toronto would still be debating whether or not to have beers at the corner store in 2024
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It'll definitely end if you drink it in that same park.
People in Toronto acting like privatization means Doug is giving his friends money. Theyāre aware taxes exist, and stores still need to source it from the LCBO right?
The Toronto sub isn't too bad. Head over to r/ontario and see their position... Mindblowing
Iām sure all of these people also only buy their weed from the OCS website and never at a brick and mortar store since the government doesnāt have any.
The LCBO makes money as a retailer for the government, if the LCBO is privatized, those 2.5 billion per year are gone. It's also wild people want 10,000 jobs to just vanish and be replaced so they can buy vodka at the same place they buy smokes.
The LCBO would be the one providing alcohol to the stores. $2.5b isnāt vanishing. Its source is just redirected.
If the LCBO is still going to generate the same 2.5 billion then where is the private profit coming from? They'll have to raise the price. Either we lost that 2.5 billion, or we get ripped off even more at the cash register. This is what we call a lose/lose.
Even at wholesale, would LCBO not still generate at least a couple billion?
If they do, prices will go up because the private point of sale will want a profit. Unlike the LCBO they don't work for the government but rather their owners/shareholders. There is zero cost benefit to privatization. There's also the 10,000 jobs I mentioned earlier. 10,000. I honestly don't see why we should ruin 10,000 jobs just to pay *more* for beer. It's sheer stupidity.
I hate how toronto calls it self progressive but operates like all vices are sin Mtl way more chill
Itās not a Toronto issue itās a provincial issue. Sigh.
Thats a good point
You mean Ontario?
If this starts becoming the headline I think public support for the union will be less than 5%.
Yea. Alot of ppl just assuming it's privatizing the LCBO. That's what I heard on one of the AM radio shows the hill to die on is that. No White Claws allowed in local stores.
If your job depends on inconveniencing the public, then it's not a good job.
Hmm so what union job doesnāt inconvenience the public?
Crazy that this is the deal breaker. Lcbo has conceded on all the other items (to some degree) but the union committed to the strike due to seltzers. Must be some political party at works to not allow doug meet his campaign promises
That too but I'm also guessing those seltzers are the hottest thing going. I'm in my 40s and always drank old lager/pilsner beer (Labatt, Laker, Export, Canadian). Never really got into others.. But in recent times, have also switched over to seltzers. Much cleaner, less bloat, etc. If those can switch some stubborn person like me, it must be very popular.. the Seltzers prob draw in the crowds so while at LCBO, they'll also pick up other types while there.
He should have tightened liquor laws to drive up sales at the LCBO. Then he could use some of that to work on the surgery backlog and much needed health staff. Or help the schools out. Maybe give the libraries a bit more funding. Invest in opening more public beds for the elderly. Make ODSP livable. Publicly fund rehab centres. Hahah. Jk. Obviously he isnāt interested in doing any of that.
Donāt forget Fraud is sitting on 4.3 billion that was meant for healthcare.
pandemic - we are essential and should stay open contract ends - we arent essential and will close.
I'll just goto the beer store
Like local breweries and distilleries don't exist..
Yeah.... restaurants and bars (who form the majority of purchases) have to buy from the LCBO. Local breweries won't fill that gap.
Supply to restaurants isn't completely shutdown
A skeleton crew of managers won't be able to keep up with demand
and are a much better product
Am I in a tinfoil hat thinking this is the best way to start the privatization ball rolling? Privatize alcohol sales so it's more readily available, a sure fire way to please us plebs. Then move on to bigger ticket items...
Exactly what does privatization accomplish? Is it just about convenience and availability? Or is there an expectation that this will somehow lower prices?
Privatization always promises better service and/or lower prices, but I can't think of any privatization that made anything better, except perhaps British Leyland is better now because there is no British Leyland.
literally can't name a single time the stated goal actually occured
Privatization always makes things more expensive, because even inefficient and bloated government programs aren't obligated to turn a profit.
Except when there is a gentlemenās agreement or collusion taking place, a la Rogers-Bell-Telus.
Along with their "vertical integration" (massive conflicts of interest) imagine the creative book keeping that goes on when you own the team, the show, the TV channel, and the service provider, and many of your ads are for your own products. "hey shareholders look at all the money we made!"(buying from ourselves) "hey tax man, look how much money we had to spend!"(buying from ourselves)
On the even grimer side, if they become a top player of jobs we then will bail them out with public money.
Diverting public money into the hands of rich private business owners
I think itās unlikely to *materially* lower prices since most have a floor, but higher end stuff may come down. The biggest thing to me is opening up selection. There is one single specialty liquor store in Calgary that has 15x as many mezcals as the entire province of Ontario. There are tons of common wines available at corner wine stores in the U.S. that you canāt find anywhere here. Most people donāt even realize how bad we have it with the LCBO because they havenāt experienced anything different.
I bet the same thing goes the other way around in those US stores. A lot of our LCBOs have quite an extensive and varied selection. And if itās not enough at your local store you can order online. That store in Calgary seems like a one off. At many liquor stores in BC and Alberta Iāve been very underwhelmed. Not saying itās the best it could be here but talking about selection itās quite good. Iād just like cross province craft beer to be a thing but thatās a whole other shit show.
I would strongly disagree. Selection at most individual LCBOs is terrible, and province-wide is still not good. This is true of both wine and spirits. Aside from the mezcal example (the fastest growing spirit for like 6 years now, but the LCBO has barely expanded its inventory, most stores donāt even have *one* kind, let alone a section. My closest LCBO has so few tequilas that they just put them under the āginā section, becauseā¦I guess theyāre both clear?), even things like rum are sorely lacking. Most stores are like a WalMart and have the illusion of large selection, but really just have a lot of the same, low end, highly interchangeable products. You can make the wild assumption that my experiences are one-offs, but thatās the beauty of if they opened up competition; we could have both specialty stores that provided great access to specific products, and the mass produced WalMart style LCBO. Or, we could make the LCBO actually good! Nova Scotia has a population smaller than Ottawa and yet individual NSLCs have better selection than our entire province on many products. Itās so Ontarian/Canadian that weāve been gaslit into thinking itās actually good.
Grocery still buys through lcbo. It aināt going to change much.
The question is, what if they didnāt though? Also, even if they did, private vendors could push for broader inventory. LCBO is laughably bad at responding to retail demand.
Funny that r/Ontario thinks the LCBO is world class and the greatest thing since sliced bread.
They would. Meanwhile, LCBO is the largest buying group on the planet and they don't even ask for discounts from vendors, because why would you, it's just taxpayer revenue and money.
It's pretty sad that they always brag about being the largest buying group on the planet and we somehow also have some of the most expensive booze on the planet
When your business model relies on high prices, you're going to get high prices. People here really think the LCBO is god's gift to man meanwhile private booze stores work just fine outside of Canada - in several countries. Brain worms.
And IN Canada! Alberta has many. Even Nova Scotia has a few specialty shops besides the government liquor store that are really good.
You'll never convince these die-hards who at best have only travelled to the local Timmies nevermind another province. The downvotes are super telling of an uneducated voting body.
na r/ontario is filled with types that think only government can deliver the best service and every private business only exist to exploit
I think these threads also attract a lot of people who work for the LCBO in some capacity so they're biased. Most people I know in real life recognize how ridiculous it is that we have a liquor monopoly and how high our alcohol prices are
Why do we need overpaid government employees handling liquor?
Being a monopoly the lcbo has very little incentive to actually provide an attractive selection to consumers on their shelves. It would be great to have options that are more focused on craft beer or what have you.
Yup, the selection is okay but if you're actually really into any specific alcohol you'll realize it's pretty awful. For example, I really like bourbon, and the selection is pretty awful if you actually want to start trying out new whiskeys/collecting. Would be great to have some specialty whiskey stores open up with better selections.
For one of the world's largest purchaser of alcohol, the LCBO does a pretty poor job at procurement. Their Bourbon/Scotch selection has been dreadful since forever. It's not like they have to do it in a cost-efficient manner either since they are a monopoly and can just mark up the prices. So why are they doing such a poor job that appointing any random Redditor from one of these spirits hobbyist subreddits for the task of procuring products would've been an improvement?
Iām worried about the potential downsides of privatization, but the beer selection could be so, so much better. Sierra Nevada is gone, but Bellās might be coming. More Boon and Girardin would be great, too.
This sounds about right
I feel this may make people way more comfy buying beer and wine from non lcbo locations I always buy beer from the lcbo but tomorrow no choice
So the store that is known for making alcohol less available and convenient to buy wants the public to support them by not selling any booze? The LCBO union has lost the plot if they think this will do anything but further the support of selling booze elsewhere.
Itās surprising to me that people think consumers are better off with a government monopoly. I donāt. think the LCBO should be discontinued.
I feel like Toronto is the only place that thinks this. Literally everyone else Iāve spoken to thinks privatizing makes sense. For someone reason people here think this means redirecting money from the government to Dougyās friendās pockets. You guys are aware there will still be taxes on it right? And those private stores still need to source it from the LCBO? People dislike Doug Ford. I get that, I disagree with 99.99% of what he does. But this makes sense.
I think at this point itās safe to assume that everything Dougie does is about redirecting money into his friendsā pockets. We have enough data points to accurately forecast.
Definitely. But I fail to see how in this case. 1. Itās pre-prepared alcohol only. 2. Hard liquor continues to be from the LCBO 3. Stores that sell it still must go to the LCBO. Same with bars and restaurants.
Agree with your point, people point to LCBO bringing in 2.5 billion dollars......yeah and they still will. Being able to sell liqour doesnt mean every corner store is going to be decked out with every single bottle thats available, the LCBO will still serve a purpose just as the beer store will.
the lcbo is giving the beer store a run for its money on beer selection though
So they buy from the LCBO and bake in a profit margin. What do you think happens to prices?
Personally I'm okay with private liquor sales. I'd be willing to pay more for the convenience. Being able to buy liquor after 6 on a Sunday would be cool
I'd 100% love for the city and province to be less puritan about booze. I don't see why they couldn't do that without having us to pad a markup for grocery margins.
>You guys are aware there will still be taxes on it right? Yes, but the $2.5B LCBO provides that people are referring to is dividends generated by net income from operations. The tax is on top of that. >And those private stores still need to source it from the LCBO? This defeats the purpose of privatizing it. What is the benefit then? Stores might be open a couple more hours a week? If we are going to privatize it, why half ass it? In your situation Now we have a government monopoly in the middle of the supply chain which would either generate less funds for the government or increase consumer prices. Go all the way and let stores source from the manufacturer. Allow stores to order niche alcohols like they do in the US. Keeping the LCBO as middle man while adding another layer to the supply chain will just increase costs.
While in principle I don't like the idea of a government monopoly, the LCBO rakes in $2.5B in net income annually for the Ontario Gov which helps fund public programs and services including health care, education, and infrastructure. If the LCBO didn't exist then they would find another avenue to squeeze that money from us, and I don't trust the government to find an equitable way to do that.
If you only common drink beer/seltzers/common wine, then sure, it shouldn't continue. but have you ever tried to find a specific bottle of wine in the US? and had to check 8 different websites inventory to see if they carry it? sure lcbo is not without it's problems, but I don't think ford is competent enough to roll out a privatization model that works
So the argument for the lcbo is that you only have to check one website to see they donāt carry the product vs having a choice of checking multiple sites with varied product mixes?Ā
Thatās one of my arguments, it is not *the* argument.
It kinda fucks over restaurants/bars as we also have to source our booze from the LCBO. Many places will be running out of the most popular stuff quickly. Get your Jameson shots now. Lol
I heard on the radio alcohol deliveries to restaurant/bars is continuing according to the LCBO themselves: >An LCBO strike does not impact the approximately 2,300 private retail points of sale across the province, including through LCBO Convenience Outlets, licensed grocery stores, The Beer Store, and winery, brewery, cidery, and distillery outlets, as well as at bars and restaurants. https://www.lcbo.com/en/potential-strike
That means that you can still buy from those places, not that they will get restocked if using the LCBO as a supplier.
Fuck the LCBO. Let me buy beer at a corner store like on Quebec. Or the US
Itās coming this fall
These guys are striking themselves out of a job. Imagine that - LCBO workers want to maintain a monopoly over alcohol sales. They have no specialized skills and yet somehow alcohol should only be handled by them. The weirdest labour dispute ever.
Serious question here. If we are buying our booze from grocery stores and other shops why should we garentee jobs to the LCBO employees? It doesn't make any financial sense...
Because that's all unions care about
Because you will suddenly have thousands of people unemployed in a province that doesnāt have many jobs.
.... so we are employing people just for the sake of it? That's what causes inflation.
No and no lol. Iām sick of the premier praising about how many jobs they created by enticing āinvestmentā in Ontario. By privatizing liquor theyāre actively de-investing in Ontario. This is literally thousands of jobs that may disappear at the cost of nearly a quarter billion.
Well, you wouldn't, because the LCBOs aren't closing.
Theyāre asking why we the union is fighting to guarantee jobs. That implies closing stores and offices. The implications of privatizing liquor is that the LCBO would be an unnecessary cost to the province and would be pushed to close down stores. Why keep these expensive stores open when the private companies can do the same job at no cost to you??? The union is trying to do its job.
Reduced shrinkage by homeless and thieves
This is pretty clearly just JP Hornicke trying to spite Ford due to the personal animosity between them. Itās looking like Ontarians broadly are the ones who will pay the price.
āhow can we make sure the public will be in even more support of having liquor available everywhere while also making them hate us even more?ā opseau: hold my beer
One of the handful of essential requirements for the public during covid. Not a concern when there's a slight concern for higher wages for staff any other time.
This is what I've been thinking about too, I distinctly remember them saying "we're essential because it's dangerous for addicts to go into withdrawls", and now? eff them addicts. I'm pro-unions, pro-striking, but COVID wasn't that long ago that I've forgotten.
Going on strike doesn't make them non-essential, it means they should have more leverage to negotiate. It's like the TTC going on strike, they're not doing it to fuck people over but in the hopes that the employer will come to terms quicker to mitigate any problems for the customers.
I felt the govt knew if it kept them closed during covid, support for lockdowns would crash pretty fast. A lot of people got through lockdowns by drinking away really.
āDry Summerā wtf lolā¦..Thereās so many places to buy booze other than the lcbo. I feel sorry for people that only drink hard liquor I guess.
End the LCBO.Ā Having lived in a couple countries with open markets and working in the alc industry, the LCBO is just such an inefficient, outdated, Puritan system.
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Alcohol would be still be taxed and also, all the business owners who would operate in the space would pay taxes, tooĀ Trust me, plenty of suits in LCBO who don't do shit and get bribed and pampered all year long by global alcohol players have lovely mansions in Muskoka, too.
Those are the suits in every company. Do you really think that will change with privatization? It'll just be more of them. And what is it with everyone naively making the argument that private businesses will definitely pay their fair share of taxes over a Crown Corp? When has that ever happened in our neoliberal society?
Alcohol will still be taxed. And everyone will still need to source their alcohol from the LCBO. This is such a nonsense take.
I stand with Doug ford! Fuck the union, if you were privatized you would make the market rate for cashiers and you donāt.. you deserve nothing more.
Butā¦.i have my loonie ready for beer.
Isnāt Ontario the only province with booze sales controlled by provincial government?
Nope. Quebec has a similar organization called SAQ
Thanks, I didnāt know that.
Nope. The majority are.
IIRC, 4% of Ontarians are "alcoholics" and 14% are heavily dependent on alcohol (Fact check if you have better/updated #s). I know there are alternatives like Beer Store, Wine Rack and breweries/wineries but I predict some ppl will go apeshit with the absence of hard liquor over 2 weeks... There's a reason that LCBOs stayed open during the pandemic.
In certain parts of Ontario, the LCBO is the only place to buy alcohol.
Agency stores staying open so a lotta relatively unpopulated places will go unscathed.
Well we can get beer and wine other places. This seems like a great time to disolve the lcbo entirely
If the LCBO go on strike, isnāt Ford more inclined to break their monopoly over selling booze? Am I missing something?
Can we talk about the fact that how people working cash at a liquor store are unionized?! Honestly rooting for Ford on this one, time to disband the entire chain and allow any licensed store to carry liquor.
Glad i stocked up
I remember during covid when the LCBO union agreed with the government that all the stores were āessentialā and had to remain open because some people could die without access to the alcohol they are dependent on.
No, that was the governmentā¦ā¦
It wasnāt just the unionā¦it was public health. And itās true if you force people cold turkey they could die.
Iām not arguing that fact, I know alcohol withdrawal can be deadly, itās sad that the LCBO staff and union have decided to go this way to try and have the public apply pressure to Doug Ford when we all know Doug Ford doesnāt give a shit about the people in Ontario unless they are hyper wealthy and have the ability to kick back money into his pockets to get him to do what they want him to do.
dry summer? i hit up my local winery this morning and will dip to the craft brewery after work. they only thing drying up is the tax revenue
Good opportunity to scuttle the LCBO and let competition erupt so we are no longer the most expensive booze on the planet.
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These good for nothings get paid enough already. Find a better job instead of striking. Bunch of wastrels. Time for self checkout and international students taking over.
Youāre advocating for this? You actually want more automation and no job security?
Normally, no. But the LCBO seems to be staffed by real pricks for some reason. Like the worst fucking service imaginable. The province would be better off without them.
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Guess itās a bath tub julep summer for me.
Oh no, the poison merchants are on strike.