Toronto has been engaging public consultations for many of its Complete Streets projects since 2020.
I've been to a few that involve North York, Scarborough and Don Mills.
Go to the Toronto website and take a look at what projects you'd like to have input.
Of the consultations I always do the following
1) show the staff pictures of cars driving in the protected bike lane or getting stuck trying to climb over the concrete curb;
2) reject all options that involve sharrows explaining what impatient drivers are going to do in a 30 to 40 km/hr zone following a cyclist or a family of cyclists with children going at 10 or 15 km/hr.
3) request that the engineering consultant staff bring their bicycles to test out their bike lane infrastructure for all scenarios as if they are residences getting to work.
I agree with points 1 & 3 - sharrows have their place otherwise the decision will come down to car OR bike. Some roads cannot accommodate anything other than a Sharrow - and, in the same breath - the city NEEDS to step up traffic enforcement to encourage a behaviour change in road users. Stepped up enforcement is non-negotiable in making the streets safer for every one - otherwise, to your exact points, people will feel comfortable doing whatever they want knowing there is no consequence or recourse for their selfish, and often illegal, behaviour.
>Some roads cannot accommodate anything other than a Sharrow - and, in the same breath - the city NEEDS to step up traffic enforcement to encourage a behaviour change in road users. Stepped up enforcement is non-negotiable in making the streets safer for every one
Yup. For sharrowed streets, the city has to guarantee a police patrol (by bike) or some other guarantee that no driver will endanger any cyclist (from the cyclists' perspective).
>Crossing Lakeshore and Cherry especially seems so dangerous, drivers turn as soon as the light turns since you can't see cyclists behind the pillars for DVP. As a cyclist or even as a pedestrian, the safer option sometimes seems like letting the drivers have the right of way.
Funny thing.. I find that area far safer than most of the routes I have to take North of Eglinton... Which is my main gripe.. Everything North of Eglinton and East of Warden is stroadmania.
"Which is my main gripe.. Everything North of Eglinton and East of Warden is stroadmania."
Further south and west than that. O'Connor Drive and (the East York Scarborough area part of ) St Clair Ave East are now stroads. One of the few ways across the ravines and into the city core, and it's going to be that much worse when the re-development of the Eglinton corridor east of Victoria Park is completed.
They're re-vamping the St Clair O'Connor intersection right now. Massively wide sidewalks, but no provisions for cyclist safety.
Bonus hilarity: The city seems to think that Bermondsey Road - which runs through a heavy industrial / warehouse area and has a garbage transfer station so lots of garbage trucks is a quiet street alternative for cyclists.
I used to live in that area (St. Clair - O'Connor) and compared to north of 401 it feels so much safer. Yes numerous problems, but to this day I still take Sloane/Bermounsey to bypass sections of Vic Park.
Oh ya. Used to bike up to Yorkdale sometimes. I still have nightmares about it. What the lakeshore bike path downright really needs is to be painted a different colour and more barriers between sidewalk and bike path users.
The turn OP is talking about specifically is terrible (Lake Shore eastbound turning right onto Cherry, and frankly the whole intersection is designed like shit). I make this turn while driving pretty frequently because I work in the area and as a driver your view of the MGT is completely obstructed so you have to crawl around the corner to be safe, but many people just send it and hope for the best. If you were riding your bike at even a moderate pace you'd be coming out of nowhere from the driver's point of view.
Tbh I’ve had to pass on the right on MGT cuz people will literally ride in the middle of a bi-directional bike lane.
Another funny one is calling ‘on your left’ at times makes people move to the left instead
As someone who both runs and bikes, seeing the other perspective makes me way more mindful when I'm on either activity. I make space for cyclists when I run, and I slow down around runners. But that shouldn't be necessary for people to have perspective lol, just be mindful of others
There are so many roads in this city where cars come down at a high speed and expect to make a right turn like they’re in a Formula 1 race. I’ve seen and experienced so many close calls but the city does nothing.
Leslie and Lakeshore is a good (bad) example. Drivers coming off Leslie or Lakeshore make very fast right turns. There is a light for cyclists crossing Lakeshore that any reasonable person would assume means an advance green but it’s not: cars get a green at the same time as bikes. I’ve seen so many cars speeding up to make a right turn and barely noticed the cyclists who started to go when their light turned green. Two intersecting roads with above average vehicle traffic combined with poorly designed lights will result in an tragedy one day.
Yup, that intersection absolutely needs a redesign, or at the very least they need to force sharper turns to slow people down and force them to look. I take Leslie north to Lake Shore pretty much every day and I can't count the number of times where if I hadn't slowed down or yielded the right of way I'd have been struck. The worst is when the driver comes up behind me, HAD to have seen me, and still cuts me off.
That last but about the increased hate from drivers in Etobicoke is indeed troubling. And the bit about some bike projects still calling for sharrows such as Leaside-Danforth and Steeprock-Bathurst Manor makes me want to go ballistic.
I believe the Adelaide cycle track was moved to the north side to allow for a continuously separated bike lane. Before, there were gaps from York to Yonge Streets because of high loading activity for places like the Scotia Plaza and First Canadian Place (BMO).
By Harbourfront Trail, you mean the Martin Goodman Trail along Queens Quay, yeah? I guess the area is called Harbourfront, but for some reason I don't think of it as the Harbourfront Trail, except maybe some of the walking paths right along the water.
Adding to the Lakeshore/Cherry intersection discussion, the northbound crossing. It forces you to the SB bike lane as its difficult to cross over to the east side to ride NB. And, since most riders are only going the short distance to the Mill St/Esplanade cycle track, it makes no sense to cross to the east side.
I’ll jump in for the Adelaide St. Bike lanes being on the north side. The reason for this was because once the streetcar starts running on the middle portion of Adelaide, it would start dumping people onto the bike lanes. Because of that, they moved the bike lanes onto the north side. It also doubles as a way to prevent right hooks and I find that people are less often to block it with cars.
It’s weird that they didn’t do it for both and only one of them has this querk. Richmond’s bike lane is still on the north side. I’m assuming this is mainly because Adelaide actually required construction anyways for the tracks and Richmond doesn’t. Guess it makes for a good test study to see the benefits and disadvantages of having a lane on the left vs right side on a one-way street.
Toronto has been engaging public consultations for many of its Complete Streets projects since 2020. I've been to a few that involve North York, Scarborough and Don Mills. Go to the Toronto website and take a look at what projects you'd like to have input. Of the consultations I always do the following 1) show the staff pictures of cars driving in the protected bike lane or getting stuck trying to climb over the concrete curb; 2) reject all options that involve sharrows explaining what impatient drivers are going to do in a 30 to 40 km/hr zone following a cyclist or a family of cyclists with children going at 10 or 15 km/hr. 3) request that the engineering consultant staff bring their bicycles to test out their bike lane infrastructure for all scenarios as if they are residences getting to work.
I agree with points 1 & 3 - sharrows have their place otherwise the decision will come down to car OR bike. Some roads cannot accommodate anything other than a Sharrow - and, in the same breath - the city NEEDS to step up traffic enforcement to encourage a behaviour change in road users. Stepped up enforcement is non-negotiable in making the streets safer for every one - otherwise, to your exact points, people will feel comfortable doing whatever they want knowing there is no consequence or recourse for their selfish, and often illegal, behaviour.
>Some roads cannot accommodate anything other than a Sharrow - and, in the same breath - the city NEEDS to step up traffic enforcement to encourage a behaviour change in road users. Stepped up enforcement is non-negotiable in making the streets safer for every one Yup. For sharrowed streets, the city has to guarantee a police patrol (by bike) or some other guarantee that no driver will endanger any cyclist (from the cyclists' perspective).
>Crossing Lakeshore and Cherry especially seems so dangerous, drivers turn as soon as the light turns since you can't see cyclists behind the pillars for DVP. As a cyclist or even as a pedestrian, the safer option sometimes seems like letting the drivers have the right of way. Funny thing.. I find that area far safer than most of the routes I have to take North of Eglinton... Which is my main gripe.. Everything North of Eglinton and East of Warden is stroadmania.
Oh yes, north of Bloor really is treacherous for cyclists. Six lane roads and they can’t spare four feet for a bike lane. So fucking aggravating.
"Which is my main gripe.. Everything North of Eglinton and East of Warden is stroadmania." Further south and west than that. O'Connor Drive and (the East York Scarborough area part of ) St Clair Ave East are now stroads. One of the few ways across the ravines and into the city core, and it's going to be that much worse when the re-development of the Eglinton corridor east of Victoria Park is completed. They're re-vamping the St Clair O'Connor intersection right now. Massively wide sidewalks, but no provisions for cyclist safety. Bonus hilarity: The city seems to think that Bermondsey Road - which runs through a heavy industrial / warehouse area and has a garbage transfer station so lots of garbage trucks is a quiet street alternative for cyclists.
I used to live in that area (St. Clair - O'Connor) and compared to north of 401 it feels so much safer. Yes numerous problems, but to this day I still take Sloane/Bermounsey to bypass sections of Vic Park.
Oh ya. Used to bike up to Yorkdale sometimes. I still have nightmares about it. What the lakeshore bike path downright really needs is to be painted a different colour and more barriers between sidewalk and bike path users.
All my commutes start and end north of the 401 and it's a fucking game of frogger each and every day.
Without a doubt crossing over/under one of the highways is almost always super sketchy
The turn OP is talking about specifically is terrible (Lake Shore eastbound turning right onto Cherry, and frankly the whole intersection is designed like shit). I make this turn while driving pretty frequently because I work in the area and as a driver your view of the MGT is completely obstructed so you have to crawl around the corner to be safe, but many people just send it and hope for the best. If you were riding your bike at even a moderate pace you'd be coming out of nowhere from the driver's point of view.
Ha, just that intersection in that area. It's actually terrible during rush hour
My daily commutes don't take me there but I will keep it in mind in case I ever end up there in the future.
Recently I've encountered so many people passing on the right and they're either on ebikes or escooters
Tbh I’ve had to pass on the right on MGT cuz people will literally ride in the middle of a bi-directional bike lane. Another funny one is calling ‘on your left’ at times makes people move to the left instead
Joggers who run down the middle of the MGT, on the line. Why??! You've effectively cut the amount of space a cyclist can leave to pass you by half!
As someone who both runs and bikes, seeing the other perspective makes me way more mindful when I'm on either activity. I make space for cyclists when I run, and I slow down around runners. But that shouldn't be necessary for people to have perspective lol, just be mindful of others
There are so many roads in this city where cars come down at a high speed and expect to make a right turn like they’re in a Formula 1 race. I’ve seen and experienced so many close calls but the city does nothing. Leslie and Lakeshore is a good (bad) example. Drivers coming off Leslie or Lakeshore make very fast right turns. There is a light for cyclists crossing Lakeshore that any reasonable person would assume means an advance green but it’s not: cars get a green at the same time as bikes. I’ve seen so many cars speeding up to make a right turn and barely noticed the cyclists who started to go when their light turned green. Two intersecting roads with above average vehicle traffic combined with poorly designed lights will result in an tragedy one day.
So many intersections like that! People are really impatient
Yup, that intersection absolutely needs a redesign, or at the very least they need to force sharper turns to slow people down and force them to look. I take Leslie north to Lake Shore pretty much every day and I can't count the number of times where if I hadn't slowed down or yielded the right of way I'd have been struck. The worst is when the driver comes up behind me, HAD to have seen me, and still cuts me off.
What about the new trend for this spring of all the joggers running in the bike line on Bloor?
That last but about the increased hate from drivers in Etobicoke is indeed troubling. And the bit about some bike projects still calling for sharrows such as Leaside-Danforth and Steeprock-Bathurst Manor makes me want to go ballistic.
The Adelaide lane used to be on the right. They moved it relatively recently, apparently to head off some impending multi year blockages.
I believe the Adelaide cycle track was moved to the north side to allow for a continuously separated bike lane. Before, there were gaps from York to Yonge Streets because of high loading activity for places like the Scotia Plaza and First Canadian Place (BMO).
By Harbourfront Trail, you mean the Martin Goodman Trail along Queens Quay, yeah? I guess the area is called Harbourfront, but for some reason I don't think of it as the Harbourfront Trail, except maybe some of the walking paths right along the water.
Yes MGT along Queens Quay
Adding to the Lakeshore/Cherry intersection discussion, the northbound crossing. It forces you to the SB bike lane as its difficult to cross over to the east side to ride NB. And, since most riders are only going the short distance to the Mill St/Esplanade cycle track, it makes no sense to cross to the east side.
Take sherborne instead.
Yep, that’s my usual route, but its down to one way SB right now, so not an option to go NB. Lower Jarvis is my NB route right now.
my not-so-hot take is that anything electric shouldn't be in the bike lane.
I’ll jump in for the Adelaide St. Bike lanes being on the north side. The reason for this was because once the streetcar starts running on the middle portion of Adelaide, it would start dumping people onto the bike lanes. Because of that, they moved the bike lanes onto the north side. It also doubles as a way to prevent right hooks and I find that people are less often to block it with cars. It’s weird that they didn’t do it for both and only one of them has this querk. Richmond’s bike lane is still on the north side. I’m assuming this is mainly because Adelaide actually required construction anyways for the tracks and Richmond doesn’t. Guess it makes for a good test study to see the benefits and disadvantages of having a lane on the left vs right side on a one-way street.