They’re both extremely entertaining, if you’re watching as a neutral or casual fan. But they must be incredibly stressful for the riders. It’s so easy to find yourself with a mechanical through no fault of your own. They do seem a bit unfair, really.
I part love them, part hate them. I can’t decide which.
I think a lot of people say “no fault of their own” and throw up their hands when it kind of is their fault. Gear selection is a skill. Don’t run some incredibly thin casing tire and expect to not flat on gravel.
Keegan rarely has mechanicals and dominates gravel. It’s not luck.
This isn’t keirin racing, gear is part of the game.
Gravel usually has much smaller groups than the tour. I honestly thought that tadej going off the front may have been a risk mitigation strategy. Less dust and better visibility helps avoid mechanical issues.
Yes. Quite a bit. You see teams with riders on entirely different model bikes on the same day for brands like Cervelo and Trek.
You have to stick with your brand sponsors obviously but riders can often dictate individual gear choice within those sponsor lines.
I wish they would have talked about this more . I was interested to see if they were riding gravel bikes or if they just changed a couple parts on the standard bike like wider tires and wheels
Honestly yes - there’s a lot of tradition in cycling, especially European cycling that isn’t always optimal. Look how long it has taken to adopt slightly wider tires, disc brakes, and tubeless. You’re even seeing situational adoption of 1x drivetrains in road racing now which 5 years ago was heresy
US gravel riders are continually experimenting with their setups and a lot has changed in the way their bikes look over the last 5 years
There was a lot of tarmac still, maybe 30km of gravel out of 200km of racing. On the gravel, the 1 and 2 star sectors were not too taxing. I think anyone with proper gravel bike and tyres would have been way down on pace. I think the risk of punctures was better than having to work 10-20% harder to keep up all day.
Lots of decisions are made by the teams that affect race outcomes. It's kind of a team sport, whether it's the team or individual riders making the decisions on gear isn't really a meaningful distinction.
Space between cobbles and height difference means you're going from potential snake bite to potential snake bike every time you bang on to another sharp cobbles edge.
Besides what other comments mentioned, riding on cobbles is pretty horrible on the body due to the constant and often rough vibrations. Your undercarriage (ie gooch) takes the brunt of this, for an all-round very unpleasant experience.
Been looking forward to it since the route was announced. Even got the next day off work so I could watch the whole stage (I'm in Australia and the stage will probably finish around 1am my time...I start work at 4am. I am not working 9 hours in a Bakery on 3 hours sleep).
Holy F, that's dedication! I watched SBS broadcast last year and I loved it! Just very slow and unstable via VPN from Europe.
Lets see how it plays out, I'm super excited too
First time I've ever done that. Normally just watch the broadcast the next day but
1) I haven't had a day off since February, I'm bloody due
2) I love gravel/cobble stages in Grand Tours.
Yeah I totally agree with this, I'd like to see a shift away from best high-mountain climber and toward best all-rounder. But I guess that is hard to do given the team dynamics on the flat stages, the only way to separate people is through TT or high mountains where teams dont help
I've speculated about this before, but I'd like to see some of the flat stages be transformed into very tricky technical stages. For instance, let's imagine that there's a 200km flat stage. Let the riders go through the very centre of historic towns and villages, with difficult left/right corners that require great handling skills on the bike. Do this several times in a stage, and you'll almost certainly have the peleton broken up.
I also wouldn't mind seeing longer and more brutal time trials too. For instance, a 200km time trial where teams have to put the focus on the bike being reliable as possible, as they wouldn't be able to ride behind every rider. It would require vastly different strategy from the GC contenders, as they wouldn't be able to go out hard for just an hour or so
As I’m watching, it’s different. But it’s not so bad. The good ones will handle it well. I have to say, I’m 70 and I ride on my own and what they are riding on today, that’s all I ever ride on. Cannot be that tough lol They added it to keep people watching. The GC competition is being dominated by 2 maybe 3 riders. I say keep the gravel!!
It definitely makes things super interesting. It's shaking things up which is a welcome change. The last few stages you were fine just watching the last 10km. Today it really feels like you'd be missing something if you don't watch.
I see no mustaches so it’s basically been crucified already.
I love that Mahoric got wrecked at Unbound AND was such a good sport about it. Routing for him today! He should be allowed to wear the rainbow stripes for todays stage.
I’d pay the UCI fines for that Cort moustache to kiss random roadside mistresses.
We need some daring young men with daring facial hair on their daring machines alternate plotlines.
It's the Tour of France. If they can find gravel and cobbles; heck even off-road muddy tracks and suitable sandy beaches in France. Let them race on it!
It's the best cycling race on the calendar. Let them prove themselves to be the best!
yea thats my current attitude too. I think it could be a bit better done, e.g. dont have the vehicles blow dust in the riders faces. But generally I like the mayhem that comes from this. Seems like a lot of teams underestimated the funnel effect, which I dont get. How cant you not forsee that a group of 100 riders will slow down when entering a 2m wide gravel hill.
Excited. This is the biggest stage for the sport. Love when they include all terrains. Make it hard, make it exciting and let the best in the business showcase their skills
I was thinking the time trial with the insane descent was going to be all him (From what I’ve seen him do) and his name came in my mind for this too.
Have them ride down the side of a mountain on a bumpy trail. He’ll get that for sure.
It's cool so far. I remember years ago they had one day of the tour with no radio contact. Only coms with the riders was on chalk boards. That was almost as chaotic.
Would be a huge scandal, pure roadies are going to go crazy if that happens. I hope it remains exciting without major implications, so that maybe we'll see more of that in the grand tours.
It’s happened before... Chris Froome abandoned and Vincenzo Nibali extended his GC lead during the S5 ‘Roubaix’ stage in 2014. Nibali would go on to win the overall.
See and I think that helps the competition - mix it up a bit. The best thing about this tour is all the different stage winners. Plus, one wreck or bike malfunction could screw up the GC contenders on any other stage too. Isn’t this all part of the race?
The excitement we (or at least I) want can only really be created by the riders.
Frustratingly the riders have mostly seemed more scared of losing than interested in winning.
What i think the organizers dreamed of:
MVdP attacking and getting followed by Pogi and strong riders like Gee and Stuyrven.
What we likely get: Visma and UAE shutting down relevant attacks and it never making sense for either of them to really nuke it to risk a lot and potentially gain… bonus at the line? And we see a mostly controlled break that either has a chance to win or not but doesn’t really matter?
I hope I’m wrong.
Mountains, sprints, time trials are all different skill sets, why not gravel? Some of the top guys do CX or MTB, I’m sure they’ll like it. Personally I’d like to see a criterium, a tight twisty course in one of those pretty little towns. I don’t know how they could do that safely with the big peloton though.
Shouldn't be a problem, I think. Do it in several towns along a flat stage, and let the peloton figure it out themselves. If it was combined with cobbles and gravel, you'd really force teams to think carefully about the bikes and how to set them up.
I kind of like the cobblestones better bc I think it’s more of a challenge. Plus, all the dust kicked up from the gravel was terrible for them to breathe. So, I’m team cobble.
It's great. It's very tame gravel compared to stuff like unbound.
The tour always has variables like road furniture, mechanicals, weather, crashes that are often no fault of the riders. I don't get why people are upset about a little smooth gravel.
I'm just glad it didn't impact the GC from a random perspective. This style requires a lot of skill, but is also very susceptible to random mechanicals.
A chance for Roglic, the captain of RBBHG, to show his quality and crash out of the tour.
Jokes aside, I'm stoked, but also worried that randomness will get the favorites.
Certainly the reason they’re doing this is to help bike manufacturers sell gravel bikes, but as for the ‘scene’ it’s highly localized and unapproachable for many people in the US. Barring certain parts of the country, outside of a few bike trails of short distance (maybe a handful of miles) it’s not like you’re gonna have 50 miles of trails to make it worthwhile as a pursuit. Everyone I know that does it has to travel a good ways to find safe and public trails.
Yeah there’s areas I know of that would be ideal but at the same time many such places are either remote or share occupancy with ATVs and motorbikes. Nothing quite like having a nice day only to have a few atvs come tearing past you and almost hit you and then also f’ing up the road not to mention people who 4x4 and try to hit you on purpose
Yea but a gravel race vs gravel sections on a road race are vastly different. Don't think there is such a big peleton in unbound. Tire choice will also be vastly different. Not saying it's bad, just that they're not really comparable
In theory. I can get it a little bit. On gravel, even when flat, your tires can skip around a bit off a big pebble. Or you get a puncture. If you then ride in a tight bunch this can cascade.
But generally, I agree. It's a test to equipment and tactics, something they should be able to handle.
I don’t think it should be in a GT. It adds too much randomness. Imagine if one of the big four is out of the GC battle just because of bad luck today. I don’t mind the riders’ skill being tested, but the risk of mechanicals without the ability to get back is too high on stages like this.
Love the gravel sectors, hate the cobbles.
With the advent of wider tubeless tyres, at lower pressures...they should bring more gravel. Even in the mountains.
I am all for gravel, hell I got a gravel bike after I got hit on the road. But having raced road and gravel, just not sure I want to see it in tdf...
Most the gravel guys are specialists and if there is a big move in gc standing I can see people being bit unhappy...then again I rode gravel in europe and it was so smooth it was like riding on a road.
In the beginning they said some might be running wider tires, but still road slicks. Others said they prioritize road, so still running 28mm, since it makes up 90% of the course.
How Tadej feels :
tadej: “i was not expecting the gravel to be so much gravelly”
There you have it folks from the mouth of the yellow jersey!
First exciting race stage I’ve seen in a while. And no one got hurt.
I personally felt very entertained by the stage. It was really incredible aggressive but also chaotic riding. It really felt like there could be something big happening at all times.
However I personally also can’t really say how much more risky it is. I only know that I personally wouldn’t want to ride in gravel with that kind of bikes at that pace, but then again I am also not a professional cyclist.
I like it. What mandate requires a road to be paved? Today's riding was similar to the routes I have to take on my work commute in Germany. What's not so awesome for riders are the motorbikes in front of the group dusting the athletes. I guess everyone gets a mouthful of dirt.
It was fantastic. Watched the whole thing start to finish. Riveting! It’s a 21 day race, I love all of the nuances and different stages. It’s great to see the leaders pressured in different ways.
Gravel adds excitement to flat stages, and shows off the diverse skills of many the these riders.
I like it better than cobbles, which can be really dangerous.
As a fan, I loved it but I would feel the same way as the riders if in the event. I think the riders are unintentionally reinforcing the bringing this kind of stage back. Several of the flat stages have had very little action (ie, breakaway or attacks) but this one was all gas, no breaks. This what brings the attention and the viewers. If the trend continues where flat stages become more of a stalemate for most of the race but this kind of stages bring the action, they will continue putting them in there. In not saying it’s right but money, viewership and sponsorships talk.
I think it's not bad at all. The flat stages have become interminably dull, and things like this really force riders and teams to actually perform. The Tour de France is really about crowning the best cyclist in the world, and if a GC contender cannot handle gravel (or cobblestones, or whatever), then they don't belong there.
I think it was an amazing stage that we watched and were entertained and excited by end to end. I loved watching it. However, this is what monuments and classics are for not a 21 day stage race where it introduces so much chance as well as could knock out GC riders through bad luck, eg pretty impossible for team cars etc. This is perfect for getting more eyes on the sport though for casual viewers though. Also... These guys have got another two weeks of hard racing to go. I did an 80 mile gravel race a month ago and my butt bones are still bruised!
I really enjoyed it and was surprised there were not any serious crashes on the gravel. I also thought there would be at least one rider on a gravel bike running 38+ tires, but I guess they were mainly on paved roads, so 28-30s made sense.
I think forcing the riders to deeply breath in all that nasty dust potentially containing silicate dust which is really unhealthy. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/silica/about/index.html
I agree, and the camera motos were what was kicking up all the dust. If they could film the stage entirely from the air there wouldn’t have been so much dust
I am a casual fan, but todays race was really fun to watch on gravel and it seemed it allowed riders who may not normally have a chance to shine really compete
Gravel was awesome. It's pretty ridiculous to hear riders like Jonas complain that it's too much about luck and that it's too dangerous for no reason.
What's dangerous for no reason? Bombing down Col De Galibier at speeds in excess of 100km/hr to the finish, when it could have just easily have finished much more safely on the top.
As for luck, I thought GCN Racing made some great points. Puncturing on gravel certainly has some luck involved, but most of it comes down to equipment choice and rider/team skill. Positioning is critical, as is line choice. For example, Remco and Tadej are both accomplished classics riders, they didn't have any issues, but Jonas who is not a classics rider had two punctures. Additionally you didn't see any of the leaders in the front of the pack have to run up that gravel hill.
Even if punctures are pure luck of the draw, the stage was excited from start to finish and given this is a spectator sport, I dont care if one of the leaders gets unlucky. Its worth it.
That said, im not surprised to see Jonas complain about anything that gets in the way of his precisely calculated path to victory, especially anything that is remotely fun. Dont get me wrong, I really like Chris Froome, but watching him win with Sky was incredibly boring, and Jonas and team are following the exact same blueprint.
As a gravel bike owner, I was thinking, yeah, that should be interesting. Then I saw the first gravel section where the peloton basically had to dismount and run up a hill because it was too narrow and slippery, and I thought that sucks.
Love gravel biking. Opens up so many great fire roads and moderate single track, etc. Love getting out there in nature too. I think they should definitely should add it to future tours. However, they should test it out to make sure it's ridable.
Not a very inspiring stage. Road bikes aren't meant to go on gravel. Might as well have an ice skating stage in the tour because the commercial value is just about the same. During the pandemic there was a surge of coomers for gravel riding that hailed those hybrid Canyons as the future of all things cycling. Now all those people are back to rock climbing and drinking IPA and spinning. The share of TDF viewers interested in gravel racing is minimal and I think they revert back to giving gravel stages the can.
Not a fan. The Tour de France doesn't stop being the biggest bike race in the world for a lack of gravel, and it looks super uncomfortable for the riders especially at the back of a group or following motor vehicles. Dust lung galore. The rest of the Tour de France is a case of "I wouldn't be able to do this", the gravel is a case of "I wouldn't be willing to do this", even though I like to ride gravel by myself recreationally.
Conflicted.
I do think that Cobblestone/Gravel should have their own separate event.
It might be a reach, but I do think that the bike manufacturers are just pushing this gravel stage as marketing tactics so that people will buy gravel related upgrades and bikes. The bike industry is bogged down on tech improvement these past years - that they are pushing people to buy minimal 'changes'.
And yet it's actually the worse for bike manufacturers for them to get people into buying gravel related stuff.
All riders are on their regular road bikes, some riding their aero road bikes with aggressive geo on road tires.
All depends on conditions. If it was raining and the gravel was really chunky I would be annoyed
Seeing as it might be smooth gravel for most of it and dry, should be okay and make it interesting !
I am mixed. I would hate to see a GC contender wiped out in gravel. You have the cobble classic Paris Rouibaix and gravel Strade Bianche. The irony is that for years the towns along the tour route tried to have the best roads available. Now the tour is putting riders on crappy roads.
They sometimes seem to complain about things just to fill airtime. Hearing about one racer taking a nature break repeatedly for five minutes and about how the peleton is panicking for at least the last twenty minutes (no evidence I can see this is actually happening), and now a bike switch for almost ten minutes, and the team cars not riding alongside for hours now—you’d think these things never happen in races, they way they just keep repeating themselves like a record skipping.
I’m not saying some of it isn’t legit, only that he (and all the others, to be fair) repeat things ad nauseam until it sounds like way more of a beef than it started out as.
A gimmick just like gravel bikes.
It’s not that a cyclist doesn’t need to show their ability to ride a bike, but these roads aren’t conducive to safety or the millions of dollars on the line for teams. They have issues alone with road course obstacles and such.
It’d be different if MOST roads were gravel on the Tour, but these days they’re hard to find in many developed areas. I’m sure the Tour organizers struggled to find these 20 miles of gravel.
The same way I feel about cobblestones. This isn't the 1800s, we don't have horse and buggies anymore. Improvements have been made for safety in a variety of areas, including helmets, tires, brakes, and the road surface itself.
The Tours are road races. We don't need to make the race more dangerous just for variety.
Generally I agree. But flat stages are generally very boring, especially this year. This does add a level of excitement. Let's hope it's not thr cause of controversy after the race.
It would be exciting to see the peloton go down a dirt track mountain bike trail, complete with 50 foot jumps. Those probably exist in France, and could even be considered "roads". That doesn't mean it should be part of the TdF
Im not a fan. But to be fair I also think cobble should not be a part of it. It’s a road race. Race on the road. If you want off roading choose a different event
gravel and cobble roads have been i n the tour from the beginning. Perhaps they need to allow an extra team car or find other better ways to support riders on these stages if its such an issue. But stop pretending this is something new and different every other year when there is an extended gravel stage.
Cobblestones are far worse than the gravel they’ll ride.
They’re both extremely entertaining, if you’re watching as a neutral or casual fan. But they must be incredibly stressful for the riders. It’s so easy to find yourself with a mechanical through no fault of your own. They do seem a bit unfair, really. I part love them, part hate them. I can’t decide which.
I think a lot of people say “no fault of their own” and throw up their hands when it kind of is their fault. Gear selection is a skill. Don’t run some incredibly thin casing tire and expect to not flat on gravel. Keegan rarely has mechanicals and dominates gravel. It’s not luck. This isn’t keirin racing, gear is part of the game.
Gravel usually has much smaller groups than the tour. I honestly thought that tadej going off the front may have been a risk mitigation strategy. Less dust and better visibility helps avoid mechanical issues.
Do you really think that there's any slack from any professional team on gear selection? Its kinda hilarious that anyone would think that.
Yes. Quite a bit. You see teams with riders on entirely different model bikes on the same day for brands like Cervelo and Trek. You have to stick with your brand sponsors obviously but riders can often dictate individual gear choice within those sponsor lines.
I wish they would have talked about this more . I was interested to see if they were riding gravel bikes or if they just changed a couple parts on the standard bike like wider tires and wheels
I would be really surprised if anyone was on a gravel bike. I could be wrong but I would pick a road bike on the kind of gravel they rode.
Honestly yes - there’s a lot of tradition in cycling, especially European cycling that isn’t always optimal. Look how long it has taken to adopt slightly wider tires, disc brakes, and tubeless. You’re even seeing situational adoption of 1x drivetrains in road racing now which 5 years ago was heresy US gravel riders are continually experimenting with their setups and a lot has changed in the way their bikes look over the last 5 years
They are kinda tied to what their sponsors want to sell most at the time
Yeah that too, I’m just sure there’s a more “optimal” bike for this particular stage than what was used.
There was a lot of tarmac still, maybe 30km of gravel out of 200km of racing. On the gravel, the 1 and 2 star sectors were not too taxing. I think anyone with proper gravel bike and tyres would have been way down on pace. I think the risk of punctures was better than having to work 10-20% harder to keep up all day.
Username checks out.
Lots of decisions are made by the teams that affect race outcomes. It's kind of a team sport, whether it's the team or individual riders making the decisions on gear isn't really a meaningful distinction.
What makes cobblestones worst?
Very slippery when it rains, slippery regardless, mechanical issues bc of uneven pavement
Thanks for the response! Gravel is known more for punctures ?
Punctures aren't dangerous. Cobbles are hard slippery death cubes.
Some riders rode the stage with tubless tires, so zero puncture issues for them.
Less than with tubes, but not zero.
Space between cobbles and height difference means you're going from potential snake bite to potential snake bike every time you bang on to another sharp cobbles edge.
And the smaller less powerful guys suffer more
Besides what other comments mentioned, riding on cobbles is pretty horrible on the body due to the constant and often rough vibrations. Your undercarriage (ie gooch) takes the brunt of this, for an all-round very unpleasant experience.
...and the counter intuitive thing on some cobbles is to maintain speed so one can skip along. Slowing down can make the bumps feel worse.
Ouch!
ever hit your collarbone on it? its funny
According to Bob Roll, they were cobblestones
Seeing those riders hop off their bikes and run up that dusty hill was wild. If we have a few more of those, this stage is going to be a doosey.
I was surprised to see that. Are they still on road tires? Looks like it.
they said most of the teams swapped from 28mm to 30mm for this stage.
When I was looking at bikes the other day, they had a bike designed for gravel, which surprised me. Road bike, mountain bike, gravel bike?
welcome to 2010
No need to be snarky about it. I was just surprised.
Been looking forward to it since the route was announced. Even got the next day off work so I could watch the whole stage (I'm in Australia and the stage will probably finish around 1am my time...I start work at 4am. I am not working 9 hours in a Bakery on 3 hours sleep).
Holy F, that's dedication! I watched SBS broadcast last year and I loved it! Just very slow and unstable via VPN from Europe. Lets see how it plays out, I'm super excited too
First time I've ever done that. Normally just watch the broadcast the next day but 1) I haven't had a day off since February, I'm bloody due 2) I love gravel/cobble stages in Grand Tours.
“Sorry, my croissants had a flat.”
Commitment 💯 enjoy 👌
enjoy mate
Yes, but keep in mind - their loop was basicially counter-clockwise, and it will be clock-wise for you.
14 hours on 4 hours of sleep today, but woke up early for the gravel :)
We get a rest day tomorrow at least!
Excited
It’s called Tour de France, not tour of who can ride up a mountain the fastest. I think it’s an interesting addition.
Yeah I totally agree with this, I'd like to see a shift away from best high-mountain climber and toward best all-rounder. But I guess that is hard to do given the team dynamics on the flat stages, the only way to separate people is through TT or high mountains where teams dont help
I've speculated about this before, but I'd like to see some of the flat stages be transformed into very tricky technical stages. For instance, let's imagine that there's a 200km flat stage. Let the riders go through the very centre of historic towns and villages, with difficult left/right corners that require great handling skills on the bike. Do this several times in a stage, and you'll almost certainly have the peleton broken up. I also wouldn't mind seeing longer and more brutal time trials too. For instance, a 200km time trial where teams have to put the focus on the bike being reliable as possible, as they wouldn't be able to ride behind every rider. It would require vastly different strategy from the GC contenders, as they wouldn't be able to go out hard for just an hour or so
So throw in a DH stage and a couple of XC stages, right?
Replace a time trial with a bmx best trick stage
I like it. Some of them might have moves to show off.
yes!
Fuck yeah! Have them start a stage at Alpe D’Huez instead of finishing, only make it the Megavalanche route, starting on the glacier
As I’m watching, it’s different. But it’s not so bad. The good ones will handle it well. I have to say, I’m 70 and I ride on my own and what they are riding on today, that’s all I ever ride on. Cannot be that tough lol They added it to keep people watching. The GC competition is being dominated by 2 maybe 3 riders. I say keep the gravel!!
It definitely makes things super interesting. It's shaking things up which is a welcome change. The last few stages you were fine just watching the last 10km. Today it really feels like you'd be missing something if you don't watch.
Exactly!!!! I’ve gotten to watching the last part of each stage and that’s not good for future viewership
Can you post a link to a stream please
I’m watching it on peacock
Indeed. This is a problem for thos of us living where the live feed runs from 11 pm-4 am
I also like to ride on gravel. However, I haven't got to try it on a road bike at 60 km/h.
As long as they don’t ruin *the spirit of gravel*, I’m OK with it
I see no mustaches so it’s basically been crucified already. I love that Mahoric got wrecked at Unbound AND was such a good sport about it. Routing for him today! He should be allowed to wear the rainbow stripes for todays stage.
You forgetting about Mr. Moustache Magnus Cort himself!
I’d pay the UCI fines for that Cort moustache to kiss random roadside mistresses. We need some daring young men with daring facial hair on their daring machines alternate plotlines.
Where’s Mitch Docker when we need him?!
Oui!
It's the Tour of France. If they can find gravel and cobbles; heck even off-road muddy tracks and suitable sandy beaches in France. Let them race on it! It's the best cycling race on the calendar. Let them prove themselves to be the best!
Oh….now I want a mud stage!
It breaks up an otherwise boring stage. Plenty of tour riders dabble in XC, CX and Gravel. It’s not like they’re being asked to ride Hardline.
yea thats my current attitude too. I think it could be a bit better done, e.g. dont have the vehicles blow dust in the riders faces. But generally I like the mayhem that comes from this. Seems like a lot of teams underestimated the funnel effect, which I dont get. How cant you not forsee that a group of 100 riders will slow down when entering a 2m wide gravel hill.
Excited. This is the biggest stage for the sport. Love when they include all terrains. Make it hard, make it exciting and let the best in the business showcase their skills
Might be a great stage for Pidcock
Gutted for him. So close!
I was thinking the time trial with the insane descent was going to be all him (From what I’ve seen him do) and his name came in my mind for this too. Have them ride down the side of a mountain on a bumpy trail. He’ll get that for sure.
It's cool so far. I remember years ago they had one day of the tour with no radio contact. Only coms with the riders was on chalk boards. That was almost as chaotic.
next year I predict a zwift stage with all the riders in a totally dark room with all the computer screens turned off.
I would love to watch that. Do you think they’d say “fuck” as much? I at some point, someone would just write FUCKING HELL on a board and hold it up.
I am loving how the gravel is causing some chaos in the peloton. Anything that breaks things up a bit is good in my book.
Yea I agree. The flat stages have been rather boring. So this is a nice way to shake things up
It’s made the stage the best I have probably ever watched
I agree, this is just exciting throughout. Brilliant attack by Evnepoel and chase by Poggi.
I think it adds a very interesting dimension to the Tour.
This is good. It’s making a real race out of this!!
I’m excited, but yes I do think it would be a pity if the top of the GC ends up losing a lot of time on this stage due to a defect or crash.
Would be a huge scandal, pure roadies are going to go crazy if that happens. I hope it remains exciting without major implications, so that maybe we'll see more of that in the grand tours.
It’s happened before... Chris Froome abandoned and Vincenzo Nibali extended his GC lead during the S5 ‘Roubaix’ stage in 2014. Nibali would go on to win the overall.
Froome crashed twice and abandoned before the first cobble sector that day; they weren’t a factor.
My mistake, memory is clearly fuzzy. I just remember Lars Boom winning an epic
That was one of the greatest stages I've ever seen. Nibali and his Astana team were so impressive.
I don't want to see this more, 1 stage is more than enough.
See and I think that helps the competition - mix it up a bit. The best thing about this tour is all the different stage winners. Plus, one wreck or bike malfunction could screw up the GC contenders on any other stage too. Isn’t this all part of the race?
They've had gravel bits before, maybe not this extensive
Love it!
The excitement we (or at least I) want can only really be created by the riders. Frustratingly the riders have mostly seemed more scared of losing than interested in winning. What i think the organizers dreamed of: MVdP attacking and getting followed by Pogi and strong riders like Gee and Stuyrven. What we likely get: Visma and UAE shutting down relevant attacks and it never making sense for either of them to really nuke it to risk a lot and potentially gain… bonus at the line? And we see a mostly controlled break that either has a chance to win or not but doesn’t really matter? I hope I’m wrong.
I am SOOOOO happy I was wrong!!!
The Roubaix-esque stage from '22 was way worse
Mountains, sprints, time trials are all different skill sets, why not gravel? Some of the top guys do CX or MTB, I’m sure they’ll like it. Personally I’d like to see a criterium, a tight twisty course in one of those pretty little towns. I don’t know how they could do that safely with the big peloton though.
Shouldn't be a problem, I think. Do it in several towns along a flat stage, and let the peloton figure it out themselves. If it was combined with cobbles and gravel, you'd really force teams to think carefully about the bikes and how to set them up.
It was a great stage testing all around ability. No problem
I kind of like the cobblestones better bc I think it’s more of a challenge. Plus, all the dust kicked up from the gravel was terrible for them to breathe. So, I’m team cobble.
It's great. It's very tame gravel compared to stuff like unbound. The tour always has variables like road furniture, mechanicals, weather, crashes that are often no fault of the riders. I don't get why people are upset about a little smooth gravel.
I'm just glad it didn't impact the GC from a random perspective. This style requires a lot of skill, but is also very susceptible to random mechanicals.
All the stages are! Wrecks, mechanicals…they could (& do) happen in all the stages.
I have mixed feelings about it. It's clear most riders were pissed. How do you set up a bike for that?
Get the motos away from the riders. Fuckin’ A
A chance for Roglic, the captain of RBBHG, to show his quality and crash out of the tour. Jokes aside, I'm stoked, but also worried that randomness will get the favorites.
Roglic 🤝 crashing out
Roglic gave a weird comment in season 1 of Unchained, and ever since then I've hated him. So no opposition to bashing him from my side. Here we go.
Remind me what he said?
in the US there's a whole gravel race scene. I think they'll be okay.
Certainly the reason they’re doing this is to help bike manufacturers sell gravel bikes, but as for the ‘scene’ it’s highly localized and unapproachable for many people in the US. Barring certain parts of the country, outside of a few bike trails of short distance (maybe a handful of miles) it’s not like you’re gonna have 50 miles of trails to make it worthwhile as a pursuit. Everyone I know that does it has to travel a good ways to find safe and public trails.
Except if you live in Marin county/bay area
Yeah there’s areas I know of that would be ideal but at the same time many such places are either remote or share occupancy with ATVs and motorbikes. Nothing quite like having a nice day only to have a few atvs come tearing past you and almost hit you and then also f’ing up the road not to mention people who 4x4 and try to hit you on purpose
Yea but a gravel race vs gravel sections on a road race are vastly different. Don't think there is such a big peleton in unbound. Tire choice will also be vastly different. Not saying it's bad, just that they're not really comparable
It's different, but I don't understand the nervousness around it. These guys are the best bike handlers and cyclists in the world.
In theory. I can get it a little bit. On gravel, even when flat, your tires can skip around a bit off a big pebble. Or you get a puncture. If you then ride in a tight bunch this can cascade. But generally, I agree. It's a test to equipment and tactics, something they should be able to handle.
I don’t think it should be in a GT. It adds too much randomness. Imagine if one of the big four is out of the GC battle just because of bad luck today. I don’t mind the riders’ skill being tested, but the risk of mechanicals without the ability to get back is too high on stages like this.
Hope it doesn’t impact GC too much. Feel it adds unnecessary risk
It’s not like they’re riding an EWS stage.
Love the gravel sectors, hate the cobbles. With the advent of wider tubeless tyres, at lower pressures...they should bring more gravel. Even in the mountains.
It adds jeopardy- I hope things change through results of skill and power, not accidents and injury. And I am well up for it !
I am all for gravel, hell I got a gravel bike after I got hit on the road. But having raced road and gravel, just not sure I want to see it in tdf... Most the gravel guys are specialists and if there is a big move in gc standing I can see people being bit unhappy...then again I rode gravel in europe and it was so smooth it was like riding on a road.
Looks wet. I just hope that Visma won't mess up their bike changes :D
Is it confirmed they're gonna change bikes? Personally I'm not a fan of visma, but it would add an interesting element if they do end up switching
It’s a reference to Jonas having a mechanical on stage 5 in 2022 that ended up with a comical bike change because he panicked.
Will they change their gear for this stage, wider or knobby tires?
Not from what I've seen. Some chose wider tires to run at lower pressures (tubeless) to protect against punctures. But no knobbies afaik
I have a question - are they running the same tires as normal or do they have bigger tires today?
In the beginning they said some might be running wider tires, but still road slicks. Others said they prioritize road, so still running 28mm, since it makes up 90% of the course.
It' a road so loving it!
Love it
Having ridden on a lot of gravel, I found it very entertaining. Clearly better to be in front of
Some guys are flying off the road in spectacular fashion today
How Tadej feels : tadej: “i was not expecting the gravel to be so much gravelly” There you have it folks from the mouth of the yellow jersey! First exciting race stage I’ve seen in a while. And no one got hurt.
Vlasov is crying
Fantastic stage!
One thing is sure, I don’t care at all about all the bickering for and against it.
I personally felt very entertained by the stage. It was really incredible aggressive but also chaotic riding. It really felt like there could be something big happening at all times. However I personally also can’t really say how much more risky it is. I only know that I personally wouldn’t want to ride in gravel with that kind of bikes at that pace, but then again I am also not a professional cyclist.
Maybe the sponsors want it to sell gravel bikes
I like it. What mandate requires a road to be paved? Today's riding was similar to the routes I have to take on my work commute in Germany. What's not so awesome for riders are the motorbikes in front of the group dusting the athletes. I guess everyone gets a mouthful of dirt.
It was fantastic. Watched the whole thing start to finish. Riveting! It’s a 21 day race, I love all of the nuances and different stages. It’s great to see the leaders pressured in different ways.
Gravel adds excitement to flat stages, and shows off the diverse skills of many the these riders. I like it better than cobbles, which can be really dangerous.
This was a great stage to watch. Lots of excitement, multiple breakaways, cyclists slipping on steep gravel. What a show!
Loved it!! Honestly they should throw a couple stages like this each year.
All I know is that if I have to hear Jonus complain one more time about I’ll lose my mind
Has anyone seen the Devil?
Not yet, I feel like I have seen him the most in the mountains
He’s more exciting than the Clean Bottle guy and the dude in the Borat mankini
As a fan, I loved it but I would feel the same way as the riders if in the event. I think the riders are unintentionally reinforcing the bringing this kind of stage back. Several of the flat stages have had very little action (ie, breakaway or attacks) but this one was all gas, no breaks. This what brings the attention and the viewers. If the trend continues where flat stages become more of a stalemate for most of the race but this kind of stages bring the action, they will continue putting them in there. In not saying it’s right but money, viewership and sponsorships talk.
I think it's not bad at all. The flat stages have become interminably dull, and things like this really force riders and teams to actually perform. The Tour de France is really about crowning the best cyclist in the world, and if a GC contender cannot handle gravel (or cobblestones, or whatever), then they don't belong there.
21 stages, love that this one was very different.
Love it.
I think it was an amazing stage that we watched and were entertained and excited by end to end. I loved watching it. However, this is what monuments and classics are for not a 21 day stage race where it introduces so much chance as well as could knock out GC riders through bad luck, eg pretty impossible for team cars etc. This is perfect for getting more eyes on the sport though for casual viewers though. Also... These guys have got another two weeks of hard racing to go. I did an 80 mile gravel race a month ago and my butt bones are still bruised!
I really enjoyed it and was surprised there were not any serious crashes on the gravel. I also thought there would be at least one rider on a gravel bike running 38+ tires, but I guess they were mainly on paved roads, so 28-30s made sense.
it’s definitely a better product! but i get why riders might think it’s dangerous/unnecessary
I think forcing the riders to deeply breath in all that nasty dust potentially containing silicate dust which is really unhealthy. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/silica/about/index.html
I agree, and the camera motos were what was kicking up all the dust. If they could film the stage entirely from the air there wouldn’t have been so much dust
I am a casual fan, but todays race was really fun to watch on gravel and it seemed it allowed riders who may not normally have a chance to shine really compete
> is it back to the roots? I suspect it's more a matter of being seen to be relevant to current trends in the market. Plus telegenic carnage.
It was an exciting stage. I also love the cobbles
Gravel was awesome. It's pretty ridiculous to hear riders like Jonas complain that it's too much about luck and that it's too dangerous for no reason. What's dangerous for no reason? Bombing down Col De Galibier at speeds in excess of 100km/hr to the finish, when it could have just easily have finished much more safely on the top. As for luck, I thought GCN Racing made some great points. Puncturing on gravel certainly has some luck involved, but most of it comes down to equipment choice and rider/team skill. Positioning is critical, as is line choice. For example, Remco and Tadej are both accomplished classics riders, they didn't have any issues, but Jonas who is not a classics rider had two punctures. Additionally you didn't see any of the leaders in the front of the pack have to run up that gravel hill. Even if punctures are pure luck of the draw, the stage was excited from start to finish and given this is a spectator sport, I dont care if one of the leaders gets unlucky. Its worth it. That said, im not surprised to see Jonas complain about anything that gets in the way of his precisely calculated path to victory, especially anything that is remotely fun. Dont get me wrong, I really like Chris Froome, but watching him win with Sky was incredibly boring, and Jonas and team are following the exact same blueprint.
As a gravel bike owner, I was thinking, yeah, that should be interesting. Then I saw the first gravel section where the peloton basically had to dismount and run up a hill because it was too narrow and slippery, and I thought that sucks. Love gravel biking. Opens up so many great fire roads and moderate single track, etc. Love getting out there in nature too. I think they should definitely should add it to future tours. However, they should test it out to make sure it's ridable.
Enjoyed it, but I think they should formalize it as a "Gravel Stage" and thus require the Gravel World Champ to wear his jersey, et cetera.
Not a very inspiring stage. Road bikes aren't meant to go on gravel. Might as well have an ice skating stage in the tour because the commercial value is just about the same. During the pandemic there was a surge of coomers for gravel riding that hailed those hybrid Canyons as the future of all things cycling. Now all those people are back to rock climbing and drinking IPA and spinning. The share of TDF viewers interested in gravel racing is minimal and I think they revert back to giving gravel stages the can.
We loved it and re-watched it. Pure Chaos
Hey, everyone. The OP asked for opinions. Don’t downvote something because you don’t agree with it.
Not a fan. The Tour de France doesn't stop being the biggest bike race in the world for a lack of gravel, and it looks super uncomfortable for the riders especially at the back of a group or following motor vehicles. Dust lung galore. The rest of the Tour de France is a case of "I wouldn't be able to do this", the gravel is a case of "I wouldn't be willing to do this", even though I like to ride gravel by myself recreationally.
Upvoted to counter the inexplicable downvote!
Stupid. If a GC rider randomly crashes and has to leave the race, it takes excitement out of the later mountain stages.
[удалено]
As a fan/viewer it's great fun but as a racer I'd probably think it's some gimmicky amateur-hour b.s.
Conflicted. I do think that Cobblestone/Gravel should have their own separate event. It might be a reach, but I do think that the bike manufacturers are just pushing this gravel stage as marketing tactics so that people will buy gravel related upgrades and bikes. The bike industry is bogged down on tech improvement these past years - that they are pushing people to buy minimal 'changes'.
And yet it's actually the worse for bike manufacturers for them to get people into buying gravel related stuff. All riders are on their regular road bikes, some riding their aero road bikes with aggressive geo on road tires.
All depends on conditions. If it was raining and the gravel was really chunky I would be annoyed Seeing as it might be smooth gravel for most of it and dry, should be okay and make it interesting !
did they think about dust the cars and motobikes are rising going in front of the cyclist? doesn't look so.
Yea that's the one big criticism I have about this too...either go with stationary or the Heli cameras, but this dust is pretty dumb.
Gravel has its own events. What's next, XC or Enduro stages?
I am mixed. I would hate to see a GC contender wiped out in gravel. You have the cobble classic Paris Rouibaix and gravel Strade Bianche. The irony is that for years the towns along the tour route tried to have the best roads available. Now the tour is putting riders on crappy roads.
Tbf, these gravel roads look prepared too. I used to ride a fair bit of gravel in France, and it's hard to find such pristine gravel roads.
Even Tejay is complaining about it on the coverage
They sometimes seem to complain about things just to fill airtime. Hearing about one racer taking a nature break repeatedly for five minutes and about how the peleton is panicking for at least the last twenty minutes (no evidence I can see this is actually happening), and now a bike switch for almost ten minutes, and the team cars not riding alongside for hours now—you’d think these things never happen in races, they way they just keep repeating themselves like a record skipping.
I dunno he seemed to have some legit gripes about it
I’m not saying some of it isn’t legit, only that he (and all the others, to be fair) repeat things ad nauseam until it sounds like way more of a beef than it started out as.
I think it’s stupid. Let’s make them run on gravel “just because!”
A gimmick just like gravel bikes. It’s not that a cyclist doesn’t need to show their ability to ride a bike, but these roads aren’t conducive to safety or the millions of dollars on the line for teams. They have issues alone with road course obstacles and such. It’d be different if MOST roads were gravel on the Tour, but these days they’re hard to find in many developed areas. I’m sure the Tour organizers struggled to find these 20 miles of gravel.
Upvoted to counter the inexplicable downvote!
The same way I feel about cobblestones. This isn't the 1800s, we don't have horse and buggies anymore. Improvements have been made for safety in a variety of areas, including helmets, tires, brakes, and the road surface itself. The Tours are road races. We don't need to make the race more dangerous just for variety.
Generally I agree. But flat stages are generally very boring, especially this year. This does add a level of excitement. Let's hope it's not thr cause of controversy after the race.
It would be exciting to see the peloton go down a dirt track mountain bike trail, complete with 50 foot jumps. Those probably exist in France, and could even be considered "roads". That doesn't mean it should be part of the TdF
Upvoted to counter the inexplicable downvote!
Im not a fan. But to be fair I also think cobble should not be a part of it. It’s a road race. Race on the road. If you want off roading choose a different event
It always makes me nervous. I hate seeing people get injured over something fully preventable.
Well after that first big break I’m hoping that Roglic gets back up there to show why he has that gravel title or I’ll be losing some money.
where are you guys watching?
I think this stage will mean gravel, at least like this, stays in for a while. Exciting!
Loved it. But they either need to wet it or get some dust reduction plan in place. Not cool to be out front eating and breathing the dust.
Loved it except they need better road dust management. Bigger gap in the lead cars and bikes, water the gravel
gravel and cobble roads have been i n the tour from the beginning. Perhaps they need to allow an extra team car or find other better ways to support riders on these stages if its such an issue. But stop pretending this is something new and different every other year when there is an extended gravel stage.