Agreed. I stopped eating beef and less dairy for climate reasons. But not realistically going to happen en masse.
However, for pro athletes above a certain level I’d think sticking to organic meats would be an option that could even be mandated. Yes it affects the ability to just eat at any restaurant, but if you’re getting millions, it’s not crazy on top of current strict whereabouts etc.
How is this case different from the Shelby burrito incident? She also claimed nandralone was from meat. Doesn't the final concentration found determine the ban anyways? Why does it matter if the meat that is served allegedly has contamination, because if the concentration is above a certain amount the body will never be able to absorb such a large amount of trace.
The full decision is not out yet, but per the let’s run article his lawyer said
“There was a sample of the oxtail that was taken from a different shipment but the same supplier that USADA obtained independently from them and had tested and it had detectable levels of trenbolone in it”
In Shelby’s case she wasn’t able to provide any evidence as compelling as this.
Couple key differences:
* Shelby failed an AIU test, Knighton failed a USADA test (not tryna imply anything, but being real here it does matter who was investigating)
* Knighton was able to show he ordered oxtail, Shelby actually ordered carne asada but her argument was that she was accidentally served pork offal
* We don't know exact numbers yet but Knighton's trenbolone levels were reportedly pretty low, and USADA found measurable levels of trenbolone in meat from his restaurant's supplier
This whole ox tail thing is fascinating. Who TF actually orders it lol. I’ve lived my whole life on family raised meat. We’ve never considered that a cut. It just gets ground for burger.
Counter point. Sheep neck is freaking fantastic but messy to eat. I’ve only had ox tail in soup as it would need to be cooked well to get it off the bone.
I eat oxtail regularly, it’s delicious. It’s definitely very common among black people. It used to be super cheap but now people have caught on and it’s getting expensive
Yeah, it’s common at Caribbean restaurants I think, live in the Midwest and it’s really the only place I’ve seen it are Caribbean places. Since Knighton is from Florida I just assume it’s available at a lot more places there or more common on menus
Yeah I’m on the east coast and it’s pretty common in certain markets and restaurants. I’m carribean descent so I’ve had it growing up. Really not an out there food for us.
Interesting. I'll ask the butcher to leave it for me next time.
Guess its kinda like chicken wings. They used to be so cheap in the 90s we'd give them away as happy hour food at the restaurant I worked at. Now day its the most expensive cut on a chicken. Ribs, same thing. Slaves got the ribs because they were the "poor" cut. Now days lol theirs whole chains dedicated to serving ribs.
It’s exactly like that. Give it a try, the meat is tough to get at since it’s so bony, but it’s absolutely delicious and super tender. Strongly recommend
Just because you don’t order it, doesn’t mean that this also applies to others. As
r/datshinycharizard123 mentioned, it’s actually quite common amongst black people. I’ve had oxtail in African, Caribbean and African-American cuisine. It used to be consider a cheap cut of meat but it’s becoming increasingly popular, therefore the price is going up. It’s delicious when cooked right.
I was pointing out it was fascinating how food trends change over the years. Nothing more, nothing less. I worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years in the Midwest. I did the ordering for one of the restaurants and don't even recall it being a thing we even could order. We did a vast array of menu specials and our head chef was trained at the CIA. Now days it seems to be all the rage and the change seems to be post Covid. I wonder if the rise in cost of other meats led chefs to look for cheaper cuts for menu options. Its just interesting. Sorry for offending you.
Shelby was banned because evidence was presented that she tested high-normal for the same substance on multiple drug tests. And not only did she test high-normal on multiple tests, but other members of her team did as well. It was alleged that her and other people on the team may have been micro dosing the steroid at a level where they would stay under the legal limit. Once she went above the threshold for a positive test there was a lot of incentive to hand out the ban, and it's very very unlikely that tainted pork lead to multiple people testing high normal on multiple tests over a long period of time.
Shelby had a history of suspicion on multiple tests and it wasn't just a one test abnormal thing.
A bit disingenuous to call it contaminated meat.
It's a steroid used to beef up animals which later end up in the human food chain. Contamination is when shit ends up on your plate accidently.
This throws the entire testing system in a tizzy if you can do all that's possible to be clean and you fail a test after eating out at a restaurant.
Fortunately the roid metabolite was easily identifiable as one used in cattle.
Shelby Houlihan's steroid was also used in Pork, but her concentration was publicly released and they determined it was too high to naturally get into the body. What was the concentration found in this young mans body? Seems very suspicious how this number is hidden and all it is now is "it's ok the restaurant that gave him had some contamination in their meat" he didn't take the steroid.
It’s not hidden. The full decision isn’t out yet because it was an expedited hearing with the trials looming. When we learned of Shelby’s case it had been ongoing for months already.
The (ridiculous) argument was never that Houlihan ate pork that had been fed nandrolone, but that since nandrolone can naturally occur in uncastrated boars, somehow an uncastrated boar had made its way into the food chain and got into the beef burrito she ordered. Despite the fact studies showed you'd need to eat 1-2lbs of pork to get levels Houlihan got when she said she didn't even finish her burrito, also despite the fact that they could find no traces of nandrolone in any of the meat (not just the pork) in meat used by the food truck supplier, and despite the fact that he isotope reading from Houlihan did not match the isotope of pig originating nandrolone but matched isotope of synthetic nandrolone.
It was an absolute car crash of a defence which she sort of disowned a year later saying "I'm not even sure it was the burrito."
I don't know the details of the Knighton case because they aren't published yet, but just from what little has been said already it looks like he at least has a more plausible explanation than Houlihan.
To the guy you're replying to though, I don't know how it puts the whole system "in a tizzy" if the same system is able to identify the source of the drug and clear the athlete of wrongdoing without him missing trials.
It was the metabolite. Similar I know,but in small numbers.
Of course the usual cry that Americans are ignoring the dopers will arise.
So hold on to your panties
So the metabolite found is not made in humans from humans using tren? Tren isn't made for humans which I'm sure you know but I'm just asking. Do we, as humans, produce different metabolites for tren than cattle or whatever other animal it has been given to?
A metabolite is one that is created after the drug is filtered / processed via the liver. In this case.
Its a metabolite of the drug, not the metabolizer. Sometimes its only the drug that is effective. And sometimes the metabolite is also effective. This effect is how they work out dosing.
Our testing system requires the athlete provide a urine sample. 2 in fact, and A and B sample. The B is held incase the A shows something the athlete wishes to protest or appeal.
The sample picks up the evidence of the drug, and the metabolite. I am not certain if this drug has an active metabolite. Metoprolol, a Beta Blocker, is liver metabolized and both the actual drug and the metabolite impact lowering blood pressure. The higher the dose, the more the metabolite. Not all drugs have an active metabolite.
I hope he is not doping. However this is the shittiest steroid to choose. Not licensed for humans. Has a high side effect profile. Is used to beef up cattle to increase weight at the slaughter house. So used short term.
Not one to use in an Olympic athlete who should know better. And has resources if he needed them.
I think they let him off due to :
1. Uncommon use of this steroid among athletes.
2. Just the metabolite, not the active drug in his Urine.
3. His lawyers likely showed enough doubt in the evidence.
In my view if the entire population had to provide samples after a delicious meaty meal, we'd all fail the drug test. We have so many steroids and hormones in our food creation that its a given.
-
I've been tested dozens of times back in the day so I understand all of this, I was just curious if the Ox (or whatever) liver produces different metabolites than a humans liver. This all still seems fishy to me but whatever.
And you're right re: choice of drug. For example a TUE for testosterone (which many athletes have I'm sure) would be *huge* alone (increased muscular recovery, increased HCT, more oxygen, etc = train harder/more frequently). Harder to get one granted now though I've heard but the top people/teams have their own doctors and lawyers (it's just a form a doctor has to fill out and submit. I'm talking in general/all sports here)
I don't know of any makes with TUEs for testosterone, unless you fall into the trap of calling a trans female a male. :-)
DSDs tend to have reduced T. A la Mboma.
I'm pretty sure they don't make a distinction between animal and human liver metabolism. They've transplanted pig livers into humans, so i think that a metabolite is just that. A metabolite. If it was different, it would be specifically identifiable.
No elite athlete should be without legal and medical representation today. Its sad, but I suspect its tax deductible. :-)
Lots of athletes have had/do have TUE's for testosterone and many other things, it's not publicly available information. It's really the perfect drug for any strength or endurance athlete whether it be for baseball, NFL, NHL, or Olympic sport. /my blabbing
I only consider track and field.
Those other sports are professional sports with player's union rules that get in the way of doping control.
Doping control is a third though in the sports you mention.
They don't even pay lip service
Most blatant sweep under the rug, honestly don't know what to tell you if you legitimately think he's clean.
Crazy how many professional athletes happen to eat meat contaminated with a drug that happens to be one of the best at enhancing their exact discipline.
Exactly right, it’s the excuse that fits the situation. You’re not going to see that reason being given in countries where there isn’t drugs given to livestock. Make the environment fit the situation.
Anyone who knows anything about bodybuilding or power/muscle growth knows tren is one of the best steroids for strength and you’re not getting it in your system from a tainted steak lmao
It’s also one you know you’ll test positive from for a long time, so it’s not one someone would do when getting tested any time soon. Pros have people telling them what drugs to microdose that won’t show up after a few days. Then you just take a whereabouts failure if they show up the day after you took it.
Yes, but acting like Tren is specifically a body building specific drug is being disingenuous. It’s commonly used in cattle, so the possibility it would have trace amounts in meats is not out of the realm of possibility.
I also don’t think Tren is really used super often for performance gains since the side effects are so insane.
I used to follow the power lifting community pretty closely and there were a few untested lifters who basically said “fuck Tren, worst drug you will ever take and the side effects made me go crazy.” It’s really the only substance I’ve seen people basically actively say “please don’t do this, it’s not worth it.” But it’s also become kind of a meme at this point so wouldn’t surprise me if young dip shits are just hopping on insane cycles
Anybody that knows steroids in sports knows dosage matters as well as individual response/ individual body type. Not everyone looks like BJ on a non bodybuilding level abuse of steroids.
Haha, delete this. We have no idea how long he’s been using, what dose, what exactly his body looks like today, any data required. He tested positive. Grow up
Lmao, Lance Armstrong was using testosterone(as well as epo and other drugs, obviously) back in the day. By your logic, he should’ve looked like a jacked bodybuilder instead of a super lean cyclist. Taking steroids doesn’t automatically turn you into the hulk, lmao.
Not saying this isn't suspicious, but is the rate of contaminated meat ingestion higher among athletes than non-athletes? I'd be very interested to know what the baseline rate of positive tests would be among the general population.
I mean why would normal people undergo usada drug tests ? I get your point that it will be super sus if athletes consumed more contaminated meat than normal people, but testing normal people is a waste of time and money. Maybe they can test some sample size from those who ate at the same place as the athlete during the same time.
When internet says "everyone cheats, only few get caught", cases like these give more validity to such statements. They can just come out and allow everyone to use steroids or have a more strict testing and punishment scheme. For years, it has just been whether you're smart enough to cheat the test system.
Testing normal people as a control would not be a waste of time and money. If normal people with zero reason to use tren are occasionally found to have it in their system it would make this kind of situation much more believable.
If, in the more likely case, normal people never end up accidentally ingesting tren then we can be rid of this charade with far more confidence.
The reason why I'm interested in the baseline rate of "meat contamination" is that, if athletes have a statistically higher rate of it, it can show that they are most likely cheating.
Is that useful though? Even if you show that athletes have a higher rate of meat contamination, which indicates that it's likely many are cheating, that would do nothing for proving about any specific athlete and nobody would get banned.
You don't really even have any information on what happened. Apparently USADA did testing on meat samples and then cleared him. Do we know anything more then that? You don't know levels he had in his system what amount the meat they tested had. How many samples they got, where they got them from.
I don’t know if he has it hasn’t, but testosterone is good for recovery. You’ll not get more jacked using it unless you choose to do more strength training. If an athlete just uses exogenous testosterone to recover quickly from their sprint sessions they won’t be any more bulky than they otherwise would be.
So now even when somebody has one of the strongest, unnatural steroids/metabolites in their body it gets washed and hidden in the US? What was his actual concentration found? If the concentration is high enough it doesn't matter if the restaurant has contaminated meat or not. Have the released the numbers?
The full decision isn’t out yet but according to let’s run:
“Knighton’s lawyer Howard Jacobs told LetsRun.com that there were some issues with determining the exact level of trenbolone metabolite in Knighton’s sample, but said the concentration was “low, at or below 1 ng/ml.” “
That is an incredibly low dose to the degree that it would be almost impossible for him to gain any meaningful advantage from it and makes it far more believable that it was caused by contamination if the concentration in the meat was high
How the fuck does this have upvotes lol. He’s just coming off a cycle. You don’t get the benefit from being on steroids at the Olympics, it’s from the training leading up to the Olympics.
He’s incredibly guilty, since he’s not Russian or Chinese though he’s not guilty actually oopsie nevermind
A masking agent could be concealing a lot of the dose too, or he could even just be micro dosing (though I've no idea if that would be effective for this PED). Honestly the system is worthless if you can get away with having a small amount in your system so long as you've ordered the right meal, that's ridiculously exploitable.
I don't know the allowable limit for trenbolone in sports, but I know your statement of "almost impossible to gain any meaningful advantage" is uninformed for a few reasons. Comparing to a steroid like Nandralone, the allowed concentrations are below 2.0 ng/ml. Shelby Houlihan, a runner banned for 4 years in the US tested positive for Nandrolone with 5.2 ng/ml in her A sample. Obviously 2.0 ng/ml is also "an incredibly low dosage" but if someone were to be just a little over it then they would be assumed to be doping by scientists. Remember, if someone injects 200 mg of tren it doesn't mean they will be peeing 200 mg or even 1 mg of trenbolite metabolites. A lot of it is absorbed by the body and taken into the cells and broken down.
Your statement also doesn't take into account half lives of drugs in the body and it also doesn't even take into account the actual meaning of how drugs are processed in the body. remember, trenbolone is not naturally found in nature, it's injected into either human beings or injected into animals.
We also know that not all steroids are metabolized by the body equally or absorbed equally, so I don't know if trenbolone has those same numbers as deca.
Interesting. Maybe I’m naive but I believe he ingested it unknowingly. We know there are hormones used in factory farming of animals so there is a plausible explanation other than doping. He also looks exactly the same as he did 4 years ago, so that makes it harder to believe.
Who knows though?! Not me.
Also Shelby Houlihan’s pork burrito is coming to mind..
I don't know if he really got contaminated or not, but do you really think that he would appear all bulked up if he was juicing? I mean, his goal is to win races, not to win Mr Olympia.
His training has nothing to do with size, but with explosive power.
He might add some lean mass as a side effect of his training but you wouldn't tell just by looking at pictures or videos, especially because he hasn't competed lately.
Doping in sports is very often used to recover faster or to train harder, not necessarily to bulk up.
"He also looks exactly the same as he did 4 years ago, so that makes it harder to believe." Steroid abuse comes in levels, People in drug tested sports, especially ones with a really bad image for doping take smaller dosages. Also, many people respond differently to steroids. Some people blow up, others gain a little bit of muscle but still a lot of strength and also get very lean with less fat.
Trenbolone is shot up into the muscle. It's also shot up into cattle like that too. There is no way to accidentally ingest it. There is a way to get some metabolites of it into your system after you eat meat injected with it, but there is a concentration that should be publicly given to determine a possible ban. Here we had no concentration given, just a statement of "we tested the restaurant, it's ok".
This is why I always thought it was annoying that Russia and China are seen as the only cheaters and all of our athletes are the good guys. They absolutely do cheat but I’m not sure that we are doing much better.
Once I accepted that most these athletes are on roids any frustration I had was gone. NFL, UFC, NBA, MLB, they’re all on something.
I think the issue with Russia in particular was that it was state sponsored. They had a secret compartment where the FSB were swapping out drug tests, threatening and bugging Russians who wouldn't comply, retaliating against whistleblowers, they paid bribes to international officials, likely "suicided" 2 officials at Rusada.
They also had 4 times the doping rate of any other country, and they were doping child athletes too.
Until the ROW has that I don't think we can "bothsides" this issue because the ROW IS doing much better than that.
Yeah, most definitely they're not close to the same level of "wrongdoing", so to speak.
Then again, seeing what lengths Boeing and others are willing to go to protect their bottomline, I wouldn't put it above the already immoral Nike. Probably 5% chances?
Yeah I don't have many doubts about a Crouser or a Val Adams, they are tall as fck and have a massive natural advantage over a lot of their competitors.
Very frustrating to see the Americans launch so many accusations against foreign athletes like Marcell when in reality Team USA has one of the worst doping records out there.
I read that his 19.49 U20 world record wasn't ratified because he didn't do a drug test in the required window after the race. I was really cheering for the guy but this is sus AF
I know that nobody is natural level at that level but this is unfair to other competitors both in the USA and internationally. Even Shelby houlihan (from the US) is banned for 4 years for having the exact same story, she had nandrolone in her body and it was determined that it couldn't have come from a food source because the concentration was way too high, absorption is not linear.
Recent decisions (not just in the USA) are begining to smell like the scandal exposed in court by Wade Exum when he disclosed over 400 positive tests covered up by the USA in the 80s and 90s.
I just don't get why Shelby Houlihan doesn't sue EVERYBODY. He gets a pass but she don't? He gets to run she gets a four year ban? Sounds to me like somebody's civil rights got violated and we goin' to court! Or maybe it's that if Erriyon has been diagnosed first and Shelby second then she is in and he's out? I continue to search for just a bit of fairness in this world and have yet to find it...
Can we have a serious inquiry into Dennis Mitchell? His athletes have been testing positive for years. Not to mention his shady interview. The guy is clearly guilty as can be
Funny how often meat in the US is contaminated. Maybe US athletes should go veggie
Agreed. I stopped eating beef and less dairy for climate reasons. But not realistically going to happen en masse. However, for pro athletes above a certain level I’d think sticking to organic meats would be an option that could even be mandated. Yes it affects the ability to just eat at any restaurant, but if you’re getting millions, it’s not crazy on top of current strict whereabouts etc.
If you're getting millions... This applies to maybe 1% of pro track athletes.
Less than most likely
Sus af. Track star being protected in an Olympic year.
How is this case different from the Shelby burrito incident? She also claimed nandralone was from meat. Doesn't the final concentration found determine the ban anyways? Why does it matter if the meat that is served allegedly has contamination, because if the concentration is above a certain amount the body will never be able to absorb such a large amount of trace.
The full decision is not out yet, but per the let’s run article his lawyer said “There was a sample of the oxtail that was taken from a different shipment but the same supplier that USADA obtained independently from them and had tested and it had detectable levels of trenbolone in it” In Shelby’s case she wasn’t able to provide any evidence as compelling as this.
Couple key differences: * Shelby failed an AIU test, Knighton failed a USADA test (not tryna imply anything, but being real here it does matter who was investigating) * Knighton was able to show he ordered oxtail, Shelby actually ordered carne asada but her argument was that she was accidentally served pork offal * We don't know exact numbers yet but Knighton's trenbolone levels were reportedly pretty low, and USADA found measurable levels of trenbolone in meat from his restaurant's supplier
Duane Brown in the NFL got a ban overturned for eating tainted meat in Mexico a while back
This whole ox tail thing is fascinating. Who TF actually orders it lol. I’ve lived my whole life on family raised meat. We’ve never considered that a cut. It just gets ground for burger. Counter point. Sheep neck is freaking fantastic but messy to eat. I’ve only had ox tail in soup as it would need to be cooked well to get it off the bone.
I eat oxtail regularly, it’s delicious. It’s definitely very common among black people. It used to be super cheap but now people have caught on and it’s getting expensive
Yeah, it’s common at Caribbean restaurants I think, live in the Midwest and it’s really the only place I’ve seen it are Caribbean places. Since Knighton is from Florida I just assume it’s available at a lot more places there or more common on menus
Yeah I’m on the east coast and it’s pretty common in certain markets and restaurants. I’m carribean descent so I’ve had it growing up. Really not an out there food for us.
Interesting. I'll ask the butcher to leave it for me next time. Guess its kinda like chicken wings. They used to be so cheap in the 90s we'd give them away as happy hour food at the restaurant I worked at. Now day its the most expensive cut on a chicken. Ribs, same thing. Slaves got the ribs because they were the "poor" cut. Now days lol theirs whole chains dedicated to serving ribs.
It’s exactly like that. Give it a try, the meat is tough to get at since it’s so bony, but it’s absolutely delicious and super tender. Strongly recommend
Just because you don’t order it, doesn’t mean that this also applies to others. As r/datshinycharizard123 mentioned, it’s actually quite common amongst black people. I’ve had oxtail in African, Caribbean and African-American cuisine. It used to be consider a cheap cut of meat but it’s becoming increasingly popular, therefore the price is going up. It’s delicious when cooked right.
I was pointing out it was fascinating how food trends change over the years. Nothing more, nothing less. I worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years in the Midwest. I did the ordering for one of the restaurants and don't even recall it being a thing we even could order. We did a vast array of menu specials and our head chef was trained at the CIA. Now days it seems to be all the rage and the change seems to be post Covid. I wonder if the rise in cost of other meats led chefs to look for cheaper cuts for menu options. Its just interesting. Sorry for offending you.
You’re either some Euro guy or from the Upper Midwest if you never seen people order oxtail. Do you know what pho is??
Oxtail is quite common in much of Europe, very traditional in Italy for example.
Shelby was banned because evidence was presented that she tested high-normal for the same substance on multiple drug tests. And not only did she test high-normal on multiple tests, but other members of her team did as well. It was alleged that her and other people on the team may have been micro dosing the steroid at a level where they would stay under the legal limit. Once she went above the threshold for a positive test there was a lot of incentive to hand out the ban, and it's very very unlikely that tainted pork lead to multiple people testing high normal on multiple tests over a long period of time. Shelby had a history of suspicion on multiple tests and it wasn't just a one test abnormal thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sprinting/s/ra3KAXeiZR
Just like Carl Lewis
Just ask Tyson Guy who was stripped of his 2012 silver medal for dopping
A bit disingenuous to call it contaminated meat. It's a steroid used to beef up animals which later end up in the human food chain. Contamination is when shit ends up on your plate accidently. This throws the entire testing system in a tizzy if you can do all that's possible to be clean and you fail a test after eating out at a restaurant. Fortunately the roid metabolite was easily identifiable as one used in cattle.
Shelby Houlihan's steroid was also used in Pork, but her concentration was publicly released and they determined it was too high to naturally get into the body. What was the concentration found in this young mans body? Seems very suspicious how this number is hidden and all it is now is "it's ok the restaurant that gave him had some contamination in their meat" he didn't take the steroid.
It’s not hidden. The full decision isn’t out yet because it was an expedited hearing with the trials looming. When we learned of Shelby’s case it had been ongoing for months already.
The (ridiculous) argument was never that Houlihan ate pork that had been fed nandrolone, but that since nandrolone can naturally occur in uncastrated boars, somehow an uncastrated boar had made its way into the food chain and got into the beef burrito she ordered. Despite the fact studies showed you'd need to eat 1-2lbs of pork to get levels Houlihan got when she said she didn't even finish her burrito, also despite the fact that they could find no traces of nandrolone in any of the meat (not just the pork) in meat used by the food truck supplier, and despite the fact that he isotope reading from Houlihan did not match the isotope of pig originating nandrolone but matched isotope of synthetic nandrolone. It was an absolute car crash of a defence which she sort of disowned a year later saying "I'm not even sure it was the burrito." I don't know the details of the Knighton case because they aren't published yet, but just from what little has been said already it looks like he at least has a more plausible explanation than Houlihan. To the guy you're replying to though, I don't know how it puts the whole system "in a tizzy" if the same system is able to identify the source of the drug and clear the athlete of wrongdoing without him missing trials.
It was the metabolite. Similar I know,but in small numbers. Of course the usual cry that Americans are ignoring the dopers will arise. So hold on to your panties
So the metabolite found is not made in humans from humans using tren? Tren isn't made for humans which I'm sure you know but I'm just asking. Do we, as humans, produce different metabolites for tren than cattle or whatever other animal it has been given to?
A metabolite is one that is created after the drug is filtered / processed via the liver. In this case. Its a metabolite of the drug, not the metabolizer. Sometimes its only the drug that is effective. And sometimes the metabolite is also effective. This effect is how they work out dosing. Our testing system requires the athlete provide a urine sample. 2 in fact, and A and B sample. The B is held incase the A shows something the athlete wishes to protest or appeal. The sample picks up the evidence of the drug, and the metabolite. I am not certain if this drug has an active metabolite. Metoprolol, a Beta Blocker, is liver metabolized and both the actual drug and the metabolite impact lowering blood pressure. The higher the dose, the more the metabolite. Not all drugs have an active metabolite. I hope he is not doping. However this is the shittiest steroid to choose. Not licensed for humans. Has a high side effect profile. Is used to beef up cattle to increase weight at the slaughter house. So used short term. Not one to use in an Olympic athlete who should know better. And has resources if he needed them. I think they let him off due to : 1. Uncommon use of this steroid among athletes. 2. Just the metabolite, not the active drug in his Urine. 3. His lawyers likely showed enough doubt in the evidence. In my view if the entire population had to provide samples after a delicious meaty meal, we'd all fail the drug test. We have so many steroids and hormones in our food creation that its a given. -
I've been tested dozens of times back in the day so I understand all of this, I was just curious if the Ox (or whatever) liver produces different metabolites than a humans liver. This all still seems fishy to me but whatever. And you're right re: choice of drug. For example a TUE for testosterone (which many athletes have I'm sure) would be *huge* alone (increased muscular recovery, increased HCT, more oxygen, etc = train harder/more frequently). Harder to get one granted now though I've heard but the top people/teams have their own doctors and lawyers (it's just a form a doctor has to fill out and submit. I'm talking in general/all sports here)
I don't know of any makes with TUEs for testosterone, unless you fall into the trap of calling a trans female a male. :-) DSDs tend to have reduced T. A la Mboma. I'm pretty sure they don't make a distinction between animal and human liver metabolism. They've transplanted pig livers into humans, so i think that a metabolite is just that. A metabolite. If it was different, it would be specifically identifiable. No elite athlete should be without legal and medical representation today. Its sad, but I suspect its tax deductible. :-)
Lots of athletes have had/do have TUE's for testosterone and many other things, it's not publicly available information. It's really the perfect drug for any strength or endurance athlete whether it be for baseball, NFL, NHL, or Olympic sport. /my blabbing
I only consider track and field. Those other sports are professional sports with player's union rules that get in the way of doping control. Doping control is a third though in the sports you mention. They don't even pay lip service
What’s up YouTube it’s your boy Derek and today we’re talking about uhhhh trenbolone steak
Ohh yea.. what's that channel again.. plates for dates or something right.. i used to watch that dude a couple of years ago.
More plates more dates haha
>:(
Most blatant sweep under the rug, honestly don't know what to tell you if you legitimately think he's clean. Crazy how many professional athletes happen to eat meat contaminated with a drug that happens to be one of the best at enhancing their exact discipline.
Well, he isn't Kenyan, Russian or Chinese and therefore contaminated food always finds its way innocently onto somebody's plate.
Exactly right, it’s the excuse that fits the situation. You’re not going to see that reason being given in countries where there isn’t drugs given to livestock. Make the environment fit the situation.
Anyone who knows anything about bodybuilding or power/muscle growth knows tren is one of the best steroids for strength and you’re not getting it in your system from a tainted steak lmao
It’s also one you know you’ll test positive from for a long time, so it’s not one someone would do when getting tested any time soon. Pros have people telling them what drugs to microdose that won’t show up after a few days. Then you just take a whereabouts failure if they show up the day after you took it.
Which in the US is an automatic fail if the testing is done by USADA. they can show up at any time and any where if you are in the pool.
Tren is literally used a cattle steroid lol. Like that’s the entire purpose for it.
It’s also commonly used as a human steroid for performance gains. This is like saying “water is a cow drink” lol
Yes, but acting like Tren is specifically a body building specific drug is being disingenuous. It’s commonly used in cattle, so the possibility it would have trace amounts in meats is not out of the realm of possibility.
no its not. Trenbolone was specifically designed as a cattle steroid. It is its only approved use. Humans using it is not the primary reason for Tren.
I also don’t think Tren is really used super often for performance gains since the side effects are so insane. I used to follow the power lifting community pretty closely and there were a few untested lifters who basically said “fuck Tren, worst drug you will ever take and the side effects made me go crazy.” It’s really the only substance I’ve seen people basically actively say “please don’t do this, it’s not worth it.” But it’s also become kind of a meme at this point so wouldn’t surprise me if young dip shits are just hopping on insane cycles
Ya i don't think it would be anywhere the first choice for someone like Knighton
Well, water is a cow’s drink too.
And tren is a human steroid too
Anyone who knows anything about bodybuilding can take look at his physique for 1 second and tell you he’s not using steroids.
Anybody that knows steroids in sports knows dosage matters as well as individual response/ individual body type. Not everyone looks like BJ on a non bodybuilding level abuse of steroids.
You don’t know how different steroids/dosages work if you think he’d just turn into super hero physique
So you admit there’s no visual evidence. You can’t hide it even at low dosages.
Haha, delete this. We have no idea how long he’s been using, what dose, what exactly his body looks like today, any data required. He tested positive. Grow up
The people who saw the data cleared him. But I dunno, you’re clearly the expert here. We can revisit this in a month when we see him at the games.
Lmao, Lance Armstrong was using testosterone(as well as epo and other drugs, obviously) back in the day. By your logic, he should’ve looked like a jacked bodybuilder instead of a super lean cyclist. Taking steroids doesn’t automatically turn you into the hulk, lmao.
Especially tren lmfaooo
Not saying this isn't suspicious, but is the rate of contaminated meat ingestion higher among athletes than non-athletes? I'd be very interested to know what the baseline rate of positive tests would be among the general population.
I mean why would normal people undergo usada drug tests ? I get your point that it will be super sus if athletes consumed more contaminated meat than normal people, but testing normal people is a waste of time and money. Maybe they can test some sample size from those who ate at the same place as the athlete during the same time. When internet says "everyone cheats, only few get caught", cases like these give more validity to such statements. They can just come out and allow everyone to use steroids or have a more strict testing and punishment scheme. For years, it has just been whether you're smart enough to cheat the test system.
Testing normal people as a control would not be a waste of time and money. If normal people with zero reason to use tren are occasionally found to have it in their system it would make this kind of situation much more believable. If, in the more likely case, normal people never end up accidentally ingesting tren then we can be rid of this charade with far more confidence.
Or they could just test the meat for steroids, which they did, and found tren in it!
Take off the blinkers mate. It’s a ridiculous excuse.
The reason why I'm interested in the baseline rate of "meat contamination" is that, if athletes have a statistically higher rate of it, it can show that they are most likely cheating.
Is that useful though? Even if you show that athletes have a higher rate of meat contamination, which indicates that it's likely many are cheating, that would do nothing for proving about any specific athlete and nobody would get banned.
You don't really even have any information on what happened. Apparently USADA did testing on meat samples and then cleared him. Do we know anything more then that? You don't know levels he had in his system what amount the meat they tested had. How many samples they got, where they got them from.
Sure but one glance at his physique can tell you he’s probably not using any testosterone booster.
I don’t know if he has it hasn’t, but testosterone is good for recovery. You’ll not get more jacked using it unless you choose to do more strength training. If an athlete just uses exogenous testosterone to recover quickly from their sprint sessions they won’t be any more bulky than they otherwise would be.
What a consoiracy theorist. The level was so low that it would not even benefit him.
Trenbolone steak lmao
You’d have to eat like 20 pounds of beef a day for it to show up in your system. He’s a hungry dude.
So now even when somebody has one of the strongest, unnatural steroids/metabolites in their body it gets washed and hidden in the US? What was his actual concentration found? If the concentration is high enough it doesn't matter if the restaurant has contaminated meat or not. Have the released the numbers?
The full decision isn’t out yet but according to let’s run: “Knighton’s lawyer Howard Jacobs told LetsRun.com that there were some issues with determining the exact level of trenbolone metabolite in Knighton’s sample, but said the concentration was “low, at or below 1 ng/ml.” “
That is an incredibly low dose to the degree that it would be almost impossible for him to gain any meaningful advantage from it and makes it far more believable that it was caused by contamination if the concentration in the meat was high
How the fuck does this have upvotes lol. He’s just coming off a cycle. You don’t get the benefit from being on steroids at the Olympics, it’s from the training leading up to the Olympics. He’s incredibly guilty, since he’s not Russian or Chinese though he’s not guilty actually oopsie nevermind
A masking agent could be concealing a lot of the dose too, or he could even just be micro dosing (though I've no idea if that would be effective for this PED). Honestly the system is worthless if you can get away with having a small amount in your system so long as you've ordered the right meal, that's ridiculously exploitable.
I don't know the allowable limit for trenbolone in sports, but I know your statement of "almost impossible to gain any meaningful advantage" is uninformed for a few reasons. Comparing to a steroid like Nandralone, the allowed concentrations are below 2.0 ng/ml. Shelby Houlihan, a runner banned for 4 years in the US tested positive for Nandrolone with 5.2 ng/ml in her A sample. Obviously 2.0 ng/ml is also "an incredibly low dosage" but if someone were to be just a little over it then they would be assumed to be doping by scientists. Remember, if someone injects 200 mg of tren it doesn't mean they will be peeing 200 mg or even 1 mg of trenbolite metabolites. A lot of it is absorbed by the body and taken into the cells and broken down. Your statement also doesn't take into account half lives of drugs in the body and it also doesn't even take into account the actual meaning of how drugs are processed in the body. remember, trenbolone is not naturally found in nature, it's injected into either human beings or injected into animals. We also know that not all steroids are metabolized by the body equally or absorbed equally, so I don't know if trenbolone has those same numbers as deca.
Interesting. Maybe I’m naive but I believe he ingested it unknowingly. We know there are hormones used in factory farming of animals so there is a plausible explanation other than doping. He also looks exactly the same as he did 4 years ago, so that makes it harder to believe. Who knows though?! Not me. Also Shelby Houlihan’s pork burrito is coming to mind..
I don't know if he really got contaminated or not, but do you really think that he would appear all bulked up if he was juicing? I mean, his goal is to win races, not to win Mr Olympia. His training has nothing to do with size, but with explosive power. He might add some lean mass as a side effect of his training but you wouldn't tell just by looking at pictures or videos, especially because he hasn't competed lately. Doping in sports is very often used to recover faster or to train harder, not necessarily to bulk up.
Ok good point! Thanks.
"He also looks exactly the same as he did 4 years ago, so that makes it harder to believe." Steroid abuse comes in levels, People in drug tested sports, especially ones with a really bad image for doping take smaller dosages. Also, many people respond differently to steroids. Some people blow up, others gain a little bit of muscle but still a lot of strength and also get very lean with less fat. Trenbolone is shot up into the muscle. It's also shot up into cattle like that too. There is no way to accidentally ingest it. There is a way to get some metabolites of it into your system after you eat meat injected with it, but there is a concentration that should be publicly given to determine a possible ban. Here we had no concentration given, just a statement of "we tested the restaurant, it's ok".
This is why I always thought it was annoying that Russia and China are seen as the only cheaters and all of our athletes are the good guys. They absolutely do cheat but I’m not sure that we are doing much better. Once I accepted that most these athletes are on roids any frustration I had was gone. NFL, UFC, NBA, MLB, they’re all on something.
I think the issue with Russia in particular was that it was state sponsored. They had a secret compartment where the FSB were swapping out drug tests, threatening and bugging Russians who wouldn't comply, retaliating against whistleblowers, they paid bribes to international officials, likely "suicided" 2 officials at Rusada. They also had 4 times the doping rate of any other country, and they were doping child athletes too. Until the ROW has that I don't think we can "bothsides" this issue because the ROW IS doing much better than that.
State sponsored vs Nike sponsored, tomato tomato
I must have missed the story where Nike murdered people to cover up the doping.
Yeah, most definitely they're not close to the same level of "wrongdoing", so to speak. Then again, seeing what lengths Boeing and others are willing to go to protect their bottomline, I wouldn't put it above the already immoral Nike. Probably 5% chances?
Wow.. Erriyon is a cheater? I mean… I know they all just about are, but…
[удалено]
In the case of Crouser, he has something even better than steroids - you simply can’t coach or cheat your way to 6’8” (lucky bastard 😭.)
Yeah I don't have many doubts about a Crouser or a Val Adams, they are tall as fck and have a massive natural advantage over a lot of their competitors.
Hey.. I agree with you. But I respect the rant.
Very frustrating to see the Americans launch so many accusations against foreign athletes like Marcell when in reality Team USA has one of the worst doping records out there.
Okay but have we considered putting these Oxen in the team?
I bet those fuckers are fast!
I read that his 19.49 U20 world record wasn't ratified because he didn't do a drug test in the required window after the race. I was really cheering for the guy but this is sus AF
That's completely false, stop spreading fake news.
Well that he ran a 19.49 in April and then never came close to that later in the year is very, very suspect, you have to admit.
That's irrelevant, for a record like that, they tested him multiple times right after the meet. As long as his test was negative, he was clean period.
How naive.
This f'in sport.
Just need to accept that almost nobody is natural that makes it to the Olympics (from major countries)
I know that nobody is natural level at that level but this is unfair to other competitors both in the USA and internationally. Even Shelby houlihan (from the US) is banned for 4 years for having the exact same story, she had nandrolone in her body and it was determined that it couldn't have come from a food source because the concentration was way too high, absorption is not linear.
Canelo Alvarez avoided a ban using the same story.
Really?
Recent decisions (not just in the USA) are begining to smell like the scandal exposed in court by Wade Exum when he disclosed over 400 positive tests covered up by the USA in the 80s and 90s.
WTF USADA. You call out CHINADA after their TMZ scandal (23 swimmers) and give Knighton a pass for bloody Tren.
I just don't get why Shelby Houlihan doesn't sue EVERYBODY. He gets a pass but she don't? He gets to run she gets a four year ban? Sounds to me like somebody's civil rights got violated and we goin' to court! Or maybe it's that if Erriyon has been diagnosed first and Shelby second then she is in and he's out? I continue to search for just a bit of fairness in this world and have yet to find it...
Can we have a serious inquiry into Dennis Mitchell? His athletes have been testing positive for years. Not to mention his shady interview. The guy is clearly guilty as can be
At least I know who I’ll be rooting against this summer.
That's going to be an asterisk on those results. Scummy.
Oh wow. Was wondering where he’s been. Not cool
Very disappointing. I hope Noah destroys him.
Surprise surprise, another US doper let off..
People then wonder why the sport isn't taken seriously.
I knew it smh. Another one bites the dust